So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Brian Borowski]

I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it again.
Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to post to
this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it for a
year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never want to
use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting it with
crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting (especially for
some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so that we
don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the damn html
repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a big
surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other mail
readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to see
(hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down terribly,
just trying to get through the list.

Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about including
messages including messages, including messages within eachother until
things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also notice, that
some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please, have
pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then put
their one line comment about it right at the end of all that stuff?  My
advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and have five or
ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and save us
all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before  so many
times?

Brian Borowski

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Steve Holmes]

In response to the issues raised about windows mailer crap, let me offer
some suggestions that should make things more bareable with minimal fus:

1. Yes, if using outlook, please, please turn off HTML messages.  Sorry,
don't remember exactly which options to set but it is doable and I've done
it before in the past.  At work, I have outlook set to create plain
text messages by default.

2. for Pine users until the outlook stuff gets cleaned up, there is
something you can do to make the impact of HTML minimal.  Go into Pine's
setup options and change settings.  Enable the 'prefer-plain-text' option;
this will put plain text portions first and cause the reader to go through
less noise to get to the message body.  There's still a couple lines
mentioning the other part but I find it to be a lot better.

3. Another deal is the character sets.  I sure wish pine could offer an
option to turn this off.  If as many people as possible can do this, set
your default character set to iso-8859-1.  If everyone does this, we won't
get those three bothersome lines at the top of the message.  I do realize
there are international folks who lagitimately use other char sets but at
least the windows-12343 or whatever would go away.

Just some ideas.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Janina Sajka]

Steve:

The problem is that this isn't enough. Pine informs you that the incoming 
message is encoded in Bill Gates' Windows 1252, but "You're using iso 
8859(1).," and "some characters might be represented incorrectly.

I have not found a simple way to quell that Pine generated message.
I believe one would need to write a filter for each of those three lines 
of Pine text.

My procmail script idea is simpler, but certainly nastier.

On the other hand, if you don't see the mail, you don't get the stress.

 On Fri, 
1 Feb 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> 3. Another deal is the character sets.  I sure wish pine could offer an
> option to turn this off.  If as many people as possible can do this, set
> your default character set to iso-8859-1.  If everyone does this, we won't
> get those three bothersome lines at the top of the message.  I do realize
> there are international folks who lagitimately use other char sets but at
> least the windows-12343 or whatever would go away.
> 
> Just some ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

In Outlook or OE, go to Tools then Options and ctrl tab to the desired
page and nuke it.  I don't want html primarily because I don't trust it's
content muchtheless it's a pain to rad with all mail clients across
platforms.

Amanda Lee



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:

> In response to the issues raised about windows mailer crap, let me offer
> some suggestions that should make things more bareable with minimal fus:
>
> 1. Yes, if using outlook, please, please turn off HTML messages.  Sorry,
> don't remember exactly which options to set but it is doable and I've done
> it before in the past.  At work, I have outlook set to create plain
> text messages by default.
>
> 2. for Pine users until the outlook stuff gets cleaned up, there is
> something you can do to make the impact of HTML minimal.  Go into Pine's
> setup options and change settings.  Enable the 'prefer-plain-text' option;
> this will put plain text portions first and cause the reader to go through
> less noise to get to the message body.  There's still a couple lines
> mentioning the other part but I find it to be a lot better.
>
> 3. Another deal is the character sets.  I sure wish pine could offer an
> option to turn this off.  If as many people as possible can do this, set
> your default character set to iso-8859-1.  If everyone does this, we won't
> get those three bothersome lines at the top of the message.  I do realize
> there are international folks who lagitimately use other char sets but at
> least the windows-12343 or whatever would go away.
>
> Just some ideas.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Brian Borowski]

Amanda:
That's much better; much junk in that message... ahahhh :-)

Brian


On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:

> In Outlook or OE, go to Tools then Options and ctrl tab to the desired
> page and nuke it.  I don't want html primarily because I don't trust it's
> content muchtheless it's a pain to rad with all mail clients across
> platforms.
>
> Amanda Lee
>
>
>
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
>
> > In response to the issues raised about windows mailer crap, let me offer
> > some suggestions that should make things more bareable with minimal fus:
> >
> > 1. Yes, if using outlook, please, please turn off HTML messages.  Sorry,
> > don't remember exactly which options to set but it is doable and I've done
> > it before in the past.  At work, I have outlook set to create plain
> > text messages by default.
> >
> > 2. for Pine users until the outlook stuff gets cleaned up, there is
> > something you can do to make the impact of HTML minimal.  Go into Pine's
> > setup options and change settings.  Enable the 'prefer-plain-text' option;
> > this will put plain text portions first and cause the reader to go through
> > less noise to get to the message body.  There's still a couple lines
> > mentioning the other part but I find it to be a lot better.
> >
> > 3. Another deal is the character sets.  I sure wish pine could offer an
> > option to turn this off.  If as many people as possible can do this, set
> > your default character set to iso-8859-1.  If everyone does this, we won't
> > get those three bothersome lines at the top of the message.  I do realize
> > there are international folks who lagitimately use other char sets but at
> > least the windows-12343 or whatever would go away.
> >
> > Just some ideas.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Janina Sajka]

Brian:

I just have to tell you that on some of my darker days I actually consider 
writing a procmail recipie to pounce on the Windows 1252 char set and pipe 
the message to /dev/null.
 On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:

> I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it again.
> Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to post to
> this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it for a
> year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never want to
> use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting it with
> crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting (especially for
> some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so that we
> don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the damn html
> repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a big
> surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other mail
> readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to see
> (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down terribly,
> just trying to get through the list.
> 
> Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about including
> messages including messages, including messages within eachother until
> things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also notice, that
> some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please, have
> pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then put
> their one line comment about it right at the end of all that stuff?  My
> advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and have five or
> ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and save us
> all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before  so many
> times?
> 
> Brian Borowski
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Brian Borowski]

Janina:
Yes, I've also seriously thought about procmail filtering of messages with
the character-set stuff to /dev/null as well as some other very obnoxious
things.

Brian

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Janina Sajka]

Brian:

I think the problem, in part, is that those among us who use Windows just 
don't get it. The rest of us simply don't give a damm about what someone 
said about Windows compared to linux, or what's better or worse, or what 
nasty thing Bill has done recently, or whatever. We just don't care.

Am I wrong?


-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

I use windows and I care.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Brian:

I think the problem, in part, is that those among us who use Windows
just
don't get it. The rest of us simply don't give a damm about what someone
said about Windows compared to linux, or what's better or worse, or what
nasty thing Bill has done recently, or whatever. We just don't care.

Am I wrong?


--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

Yaa we don't really give a flyin' ***! about it! and it's time to move on
to better and more accessible horizons.

Amanda Lee



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Brian:
>
> I think the problem, in part, is that those among us who use Windows just
> don't get it. The rest of us simply don't give a damm about what someone
> said about Windows compared to linux, or what's better or worse, or what
> nasty thing Bill has done recently, or whatever. We just don't care.
>
> Am I wrong?
>
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Brian Borowski]

Janina:
Yes, that's true, I don't care, but I do care about taking much longer to
get through messages, and not being able to get rid of certain jun in the
header, which causes me to have to do more reviewing to find out who the
message is from, or what they're trying to say.  When users get this stuff
in outlook, for example, they don't see even a fraction of what's really
there, and apparently, it's even a bit of a pain to see things like the
full header, ETC.

Brian


On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Brian:
>
> I think the problem, in part, is that those among us who use Windows just
> don't get it. The rest of us simply don't give a damm about what someone
> said about Windows compared to linux, or what's better or worse, or what
> nasty thing Bill has done recently, or whatever. We just don't care.
>
> Am I wrong?
>
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Cheryl Homiak]

I guess maybe I'm missing something here; I'm using Pine. Admitedly I am
using brltty more than speakup now (ok, no hate mail please!) but I still
do use speakup, and I'm not particularly having trouble with anybody's
emails.

-- 
				Cheryl

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Gregory Nowak]

When users get this stuff in mutt, and if their muttrc is configured apropriately, they don't see much of this stuff either. So, I still don't see what all the wining is really about. Either find out how to configure pine or whatever you use to suit your taste, or switch mail agents. Pine is not the only one out there.
Greg


On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:35:08PM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> Janina:
> Yes, that's true, I don't care, but I do care about taking much longer to
> get through messages, and not being able to get rid of certain jun in the
> header, which causes me to have to do more reviewing to find out who the
> message is from, or what they're trying to say.  When users get this stuff
> in outlook, for example, they don't see even a fraction of what's really
> there, and apparently, it's even a bit of a pain to see things like the
> full header, ETC.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > Brian:
> >
> > I think the problem, in part, is that those among us who use Windows just
> > don't get it. The rest of us simply don't give a damm about what someone
> > said about Windows compared to linux, or what's better or worse, or what
> > nasty thing Bill has done recently, or whatever. We just don't care.
> >
> > Am I wrong?
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Charles Crawford]

Warning!

	The following message is written in the Charlie Crawford character set and 
is likely therefore to be nonssense.

Janina,

	Well, I don't much care for the little greeting that meets me when I open 
something done in whatever that other character set is.  I do also use 
Windows as I am doing right now, but hope my plain text settings are holding.

	Otherwise I guess I don't care as you say.  Email is email from wherever 
it comes.  Only the garbage stuff is a drag.  I too hate 100 lines of 
header.  So if we ask that everyone do what they can to reduce the clutter 
in their mail, then we would all be better off.

-- Charlie Crawford.

Warning!

You are now leaving the Charlie Crawford character set.  The rest of your 
life may not make sense.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Gregory Nowak]

Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got broadband. But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes, there are some gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone has a supported modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be using pine, mutt, ETC. for their mail, take into consideration the fact that not everyone here can aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband connection.
Greg


On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it again.
> Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to post to
> this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it for a
> year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never want to
> use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting it with
> crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting (especially for
> some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so that we
> don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the damn html
> repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a big
> surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other mail
> readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to see
> (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down terribly,
> just trying to get through the list.
> 
> Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about including
> messages including messages, including messages within eachother until
> things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also notice, that
> some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please, have
> pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then put
> their one line comment about it right at the end of all that stuff?  My
> advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and have five or
> ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and save us
> all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before  so many
> times?
> 
> Brian Borowski
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Kirk Wood]

I have several things to say about the whole thing. The first is that if
you find 3 lines of information that bothersome, you should consult your
doctor about this. Perhaps with some counseling and pills you can get your
anger in check. Get for f__ real. I am not sure why my pine doesn't
display a bunch of tags. It rarely does and it is version 4.21.

The second thing I wonder is when did Kirk R die? Why the hell do we have
people who can't configure their GD computers making demands? How the hell
do you know that people aren't in the process of converting? How the hell
do you know that someone posting from a windows machine is not stuck using
their company computer? 

Here is a suggestion: help those who bother you or shut the hell up! Write
to the offender (privately) and explain your beef. When you see the
occasional messge about character set just skip the next 32 lines. If you
are above moron level you already know what they are on.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Brian Borowski]

Kirk:
I'll mix my reply with yours to address the relevant points:


On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Kirk Wood wrote:

> I have several things to say about the whole thing. The first is that if
> you find 3 lines of information that bothersome, you should consult your
> doctor about this. Perhaps with some counseling and pills you can get your
> anger in check. Get for f__ real. I am not sure why my pine doesn't
> display a bunch of tags. It rarely does and it is version 4.21.
I'm not angry about the problem, just commenting about it; I or anyone else
on this list does have that right, and I'll use it.  If I have to see three
lines of stuff a few times while checking some mail, that's not a problem,
but it becomes one, when it is many messages, and when people can make
simple changes to eliminate the stuff.  Besides which, health care is
expensive these days, and we're getting concerned about that over here...
 >
> The second thing I wonder is when did Kirk R die? Why the hell do we have
> people who can't configure their GD computers making demands? How the hell
> do you know that people aren't in the process of converting? How the hell
> do you know that someone posting from a windows machine is not stuck using
> their company computer?
I can't figure out what on earth Kirk R has to do with this, any so perhaps
you could shed more light on that one?  Company computers are reasonable,
but if someone really hasn't made the transition after a year or so, then
you'd wonder if it's ever going to happen.  Of course, I'll know if they
have changed to a linux host, when there's less crap in the messages being
sent by them.

>
> Here is a suggestion: help those who bother you or shut the hell up! Write
That suggestion also just as easily applies to yourself.  I certainly
intend to exercise my right to speak on the linst, and will do so
regardless of what you or anyone else has to say about it.  There have been
suggestions already as to what people can do to change settings in outlook,
something I don't know much about, but had I not commented, these
suggestions would probably have not been made by those in the know.  From
my limited experience in poking around in outlook, it's not a complicated
procedure to go into settings and make adjustments, and I have faith that
many of those who can send/receive mail, and do the other things they do in
windows can manage this.  Why, now that I think of it, you're quite
knowledgeable in the use of windows and accompanying utilities, how about
some insight there, yourself?

> to the offender (privately) and explain your beef. When you see the
> occasional messge about character set just skip the next 32 lines. If you
> are above moron level you already know what they are on.
Which, I do, that is skip...

Brian Borowski


>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

Yeah, I rarely agree with KW.  But when is it that we as a bunch of
blinkies will stop living in somebody else's World?

Best I can suggest is to get over it or not subscribe to any mailing
lists.  I appreciate it when people don't use html in messages but by the
same token, I am not at liberty to dictate to them how they are to post
mail and from what medium.  I've been using pine for years and I just
spoze that most of the nuisances are just that and they surely don't
mess-up my whole damn! day! ha!


Amanda Lee

P.S. find where your Delet Key is and if you need a lesson on how to use
it, then maybe someone will show you!


On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Kirk Wood wrote:

> I have several things to say about the whole thing. The first is that if
> you find 3 lines of information that bothersome, you should consult your
> doctor about this. Perhaps with some counseling and pills you can get your
> anger in check. Get for f__ real. I am not sure why my pine doesn't
> display a bunch of tags. It rarely does and it is version 4.21.
>
> The second thing I wonder is when did Kirk R die? Why the hell do we have
> people who can't configure their GD computers making demands? How the hell
> do you know that people aren't in the process of converting? How the hell
> do you know that someone posting from a windows machine is not stuck using
> their company computer?
>
> Here is a suggestion: help those who bother you or shut the hell up! Write
> to the offender (privately) and explain your beef. When you see the
> occasional messge about character set just skip the next 32 lines. If you
> are above moron level you already know what they are on.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Thomas Stivers]

As I have to use windows for access to most of the important things on my
school's web site and I don't like rebooting 3 times a day I am stuck using
windows for most tasks, however I too am really annoyed by the charset stuff
in pine. I was wondering if one could use procmail to have it simply change
the charset message in the header before pine ever sees the mail? I don't
really know very much about procmail so this idea may be off base, but
something that says
if charset is not iso8859-1
charset = iso8859-1
Sorry for my choice of e-mail programs, but one must do as the institution
demands. *smile*

Ps. Even mor annoying imho than the malformed html messages are the rants
that start up on this topic on blindness related e-mail lists about once a
week.

Thomas Stivers
stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


> Yeah, I rarely agree with KW.  But when is it that we as a bunch of
> blinkies will stop living in somebody else's World?
>
> Best I can suggest is to get over it or not subscribe to any mailing
> lists.  I appreciate it when people don't use html in messages but by the
> same token, I am not at liberty to dictate to them how they are to post
> mail and from what medium.  I've been using pine for years and I just
> spoze that most of the nuisances are just that and they surely don't
> mess-up my whole damn! day! ha!
>
>
> Amanda Lee
>
> P.S. find where your Delet Key is and if you need a lesson on how to use
> it, then maybe someone will show you!
>
>
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Kirk Wood wrote:
>
> > I have several things to say about the whole thing. The first is that if
> > you find 3 lines of information that bothersome, you should consult your
> > doctor about this. Perhaps with some counseling and pills you can get
your
> > anger in check. Get for f__ real. I am not sure why my pine doesn't
> > display a bunch of tags. It rarely does and it is version 4.21.
> >
> > The second thing I wonder is when did Kirk R die? Why the hell do we
have
> > people who can't configure their GD computers making demands? How the
hell
> > do you know that people aren't in the process of converting? How the
hell
> > do you know that someone posting from a windows machine is not stuck
using
> > their company computer?
> >
> > Here is a suggestion: help those who bother you or shut the hell up!
Write
> > to the offender (privately) and explain your beef. When you see the
> > occasional messge about character set just skip the next 32 lines. If
you
> > are above moron level you already know what they are on.
> >
> > =======
> > Kirk Wood
> > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> >
> > Nowlan's Theory:
> >         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
> >         the next freeway exit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Kirk Wood]

You could change your character set to the windows one you keep
seeing. But honestly, how often do those messages cross the list?

I ask because I just don't see the character set thing often. Nor do I see
a bunch of html tags. In my headers I see the following:
Date
From
Reply-To
To
Subject

All others are hidden unless I choose full headers (press h to toggle
this). Since I am not as anal retentive as some I just keep it on the
short list unless there is a reason to see more.

Now really, is my setup taht unusual? I really do want to know.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Brian Borowski]

The amount of header that you see, is normally the four or five lines I
see,  however, the other stuff often shows up.

Brian



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Kirk Wood wrote:

> You could change your character set to the windows one you keep
> seeing. But honestly, how often do those messages cross the list?
>
> I ask because I just don't see the character set thing often. Nor do I see
> a bunch of html tags. In my headers I see the following:
> Date
> From
> Reply-To
> To
> Subject
>
> All others are hidden unless I choose full headers (press h to toggle
> this). Since I am not as anal retentive as some I just keep it on the
> short list unless there is a reason to see more.
>
> Now really, is my setup taht unusual? I really do want to know.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

es I'd love to get rid of those three or so lines but have just learned to
tolerate those.

Amanda



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Thomas Stivers wrote:

> As I have to use windows for access to most of the important things on my
> school's web site and I don't like rebooting 3 times a day I am stuck using
> windows for most tasks, however I too am really annoyed by the charset stuff
> in pine. I was wondering if one could use procmail to have it simply change
> the charset message in the header before pine ever sees the mail? I don't
> really know very much about procmail so this idea may be off base, but
> something that says
> if charset is not iso8859-1
> charset = iso8859-1
> Sorry for my choice of e-mail programs, but one must do as the institution
> demands. *smile*
>
> Ps. Even mor annoying imho than the malformed html messages are the rants
> that start up on this topic on blindness related e-mail lists about once a
> week.
>
> Thomas Stivers
> stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:36 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> > Yeah, I rarely agree with KW.  But when is it that we as a bunch of
> > blinkies will stop living in somebody else's World?
> >
> > Best I can suggest is to get over it or not subscribe to any mailing
> > lists.  I appreciate it when people don't use html in messages but by the
> > same token, I am not at liberty to dictate to them how they are to post
> > mail and from what medium.  I've been using pine for years and I just
> > spoze that most of the nuisances are just that and they surely don't
> > mess-up my whole damn! day! ha!
> >
> >
> > Amanda Lee
> >
> > P.S. find where your Delet Key is and if you need a lesson on how to use
> > it, then maybe someone will show you!
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Kirk Wood wrote:
> >
> > > I have several things to say about the whole thing. The first is that if
> > > you find 3 lines of information that bothersome, you should consult your
> > > doctor about this. Perhaps with some counseling and pills you can get
> your
> > > anger in check. Get for f__ real. I am not sure why my pine doesn't
> > > display a bunch of tags. It rarely does and it is version 4.21.
> > >
> > > The second thing I wonder is when did Kirk R die? Why the hell do we
> have
> > > people who can't configure their GD computers making demands? How the
> hell
> > > do you know that people aren't in the process of converting? How the
> hell
> > > do you know that someone posting from a windows machine is not stuck
> using
> > > their company computer?
> > >
> > > Here is a suggestion: help those who bother you or shut the hell up!
> Write
> > > to the offender (privately) and explain your beef. When you see the
> > > occasional messge about character set just skip the next 32 lines. If
> you
> > > are above moron level you already know what they are on.
> > >
> > > =======
> > > Kirk Wood
> > > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> > >
> > > Nowlan's Theory:
> > >         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
> > >         the next freeway exit.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Steve Holmes]

As for filtering with procmail, it basically looks at regular expressions
to be found in the text (header or body).  What I'm wondering, is if I
could use procmail to pipe it through a script that would simply strip out
the the char-set line so pine won't have anything to complain about? In
the mean time, I ot to write to pine support asking about supressing this
warning message.  When I reported a bug a while back, they got back to me
within a few days acknoleging the problem and promised to have it fixed by
the next release.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Janina Sajka]

Thomas:

I think those three lines of information are supplied by Pine, so they're 
not in the message at the time procmail handles it. Therefore, they would 
need to be filtered inside Pine--which can be done, I think--it's just a 
tad complex, or I've just bin a tad lazy when I've looked at doing it.

PS: I don't see any annoyance in your messages. Idealy it wouldn't matter 
what OS someone is using to send mail, but ideals are sometimes suborgated 
by parochial interested.


 On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Thomas Stivers wrote:

> As I have to use windows for access to most of the important things on my
> school's web site and I don't like rebooting 3 times a day I am stuck using
> windows for most tasks, however I too am really annoyed by the charset stuff
> in pine. I was wondering if one could use procmail to have it simply change
> the charset message in the header before pine ever sees the mail? I don't
> really know very much about procmail so this idea may be off base, but
> something that says
> if charset is not iso8859-1
> charset = iso8859-1
> Sorry for my choice of e-mail programs, but one must do as the institution
> demands. *smile*
> 
> Ps. Even mor annoying imho than the malformed html messages are the rants
> that start up on this topic on blindness related e-mail lists about once a
> week.
> 
> Thomas Stivers
> stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:36 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I rarely agree with KW.  But when is it that we as a bunch of
> > blinkies will stop living in somebody else's World?
> >
> > Best I can suggest is to get over it or not subscribe to any mailing
> > lists.  I appreciate it when people don't use html in messages but by the
> > same token, I am not at liberty to dictate to them how they are to post
> > mail and from what medium.  I've been using pine for years and I just
> > spoze that most of the nuisances are just that and they surely don't
> > mess-up my whole damn! day! ha!
> >
> >
> > Amanda Lee
> >
> > P.S. find where your Delet Key is and if you need a lesson on how to use
> > it, then maybe someone will show you!
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Kirk Wood wrote:
> >
> > > I have several things to say about the whole thing. The first is that if
> > > you find 3 lines of information that bothersome, you should consult your
> > > doctor about this. Perhaps with some counseling and pills you can get
> your
> > > anger in check. Get for f__ real. I am not sure why my pine doesn't
> > > display a bunch of tags. It rarely does and it is version 4.21.
> > >
> > > The second thing I wonder is when did Kirk R die? Why the hell do we
> have
> > > people who can't configure their GD computers making demands? How the
> hell
> > > do you know that people aren't in the process of converting? How the
> hell
> > > do you know that someone posting from a windows machine is not stuck
> using
> > > their company computer?
> > >
> > > Here is a suggestion: help those who bother you or shut the hell up!
> Write
> > > to the offender (privately) and explain your beef. When you see the
> > > occasional messge about character set just skip the next 32 lines. If
> you
> > > are above moron level you already know what they are on.
> > >
> > > =======
> > > Kirk Wood
> > > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> > >
> > > Nowlan's Theory:
> > >         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
> > >         the next freeway exit.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

One thing that annoys me is the > signs in messages, You will notice
that mine do not have them when I forward directly as below but we
digress.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Thomas:

I think those three lines of information are supplied by Pine, so
they're
not in the message at the time procmail handles it. Therefore, they
would
need to be filtered inside Pine--which can be done, I think--it's just a
tad complex, or I've just bin a tad lazy when I've looked at doing it.

PS: I don't see any annoyance in your messages. Idealy it wouldn't
matter
what OS someone is using to send mail, but ideals are sometimes
suborgated
by parochial interested.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Oh, man!  Of all the things I've heard on this list, nothing disturbs me
more than what's below, not even the crap that Kirk Wood regularly spews.  
I don't know how many people read mail the way I do, but here's my method.  
I use the export feature of Pine to get large volumes of mail and
newsgroup posts into one file.  Then, I run a script that deletes all the
nasty headers and, even some long standing tag-lines.  It also deletes
lines that begin with a greater-than symbol.  That way, I can use a pair
of wireless headphones and do dishes or walk the pupcake.  It's a lot like
listening to a talking book or the radio.

     Now, since I'm not Jim Stevenson, I realize that I can't expect
anyone to change the format of their email to suit me, so I'll just start
by using Pine's filter function to shit-can messages from senders known to
not put a greater-than symbol at the left margin of quoted text.  I do
agree that forwarded messages shouldn't have the marker.




          Bill in Denver


On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, David Poehlman wrote:

> One thing that annoys me is the > signs in messages, You will notice
> that mine do not have them when I forward directly as below but we
> digress.

living in someone wlse's world

[Kirk Wood]

On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:
> Yeah, I rarely agree with KW.  But when is it that we as a bunch of
> blinkies will stop living in somebody else's World?

Amanda, please let me nkow if you come up with a way to stop living in
someone else's world. I acknowledge that at least I am sighted, but I
really don't want to take credit for much of what is out there cause it is
just stupid to me also.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Right on Amanda.  In today's world it's a sad fact that a lot of people
use html messages.  I remember last year when we were starting a mass
email project to our subscribers the marketing team wanted to post out
an html message with pictures and sounds.  From the admin point of view
we didn't like it because of the bandwidth and because not all of our
subscribers use windows to read their email.  Instead we proposed to
send out the email in plain text with a link to a website that has the
same things with the colors and sounds.  It took a lot to convince
marketing for this but it was done in the end.  I still get a lot of
email from windows users and in fact at work I have no choice but to use
outlook 2k.  In any case.  The best idea is to configure your own mail
agent so that unwanted headers are weeded out or just choose to not read
html messages.  I've written privately to people if I really wanted to
see what they are writing to re-send in plain text and that is usually
met with positive response.  Like Greg I too use mutt and don't have any
problems reading messages from windows users.

Best regards.

Amanda Lee said the following on Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 02:36:05PM -0500:
> Yeah, I rarely agree with KW.  But when is it that we as a bunch of
> blinkies will stop living in somebody else's World?
> 
> Best I can suggest is to get over it or not subscribe to any mailing
> lists.  I appreciate it when people don't use html in messages but by the
> same token, I am not at liberty to dictate to them how they are to post
> mail and from what medium.  I've been using pine for years and I just
> spoze that most of the nuisances are just that and they surely don't
> mess-up my whole damn! day! ha!
> 

-- 
If you are good, you will be assigned all the work.  If you are real
good, you will get out of it.
Raul A. Gallegos - http://www.asmodean.net

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Christopher A. Peterson]

On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 09:16:06AM -0600, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
> Right on Amanda.  In today's world it's a sad fact that a lot of people
This horse has been killed and and is decomposing at a rapid rate.  It's
starting to stink so lets just put it in the ground and leave it there.

Or should I start a list for those of you who want to debate the marits of
html Vs. plain text since most of us don't seem to find it to be a
problem worth spending this much time on.

Btw, I thought this list was about speakup projects.  Or at least, thats
what the web page says.  So far, I haven't seen much speakup stuff on here
and I've seen a lot of off-topic crap that would be better suited for one
of the other blind lists I'm not on.

Chris

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Pete]

  In outlook express there is a check box to check so you reply in the same
format as the email message you are replying to.
  Pete

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Janina Sajka]

Hmmm, maybe it is time for a new kill file ...

On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Kirk Wood wrote:

> I have several things to say about the whole thing. The first is that if
> you find 3 lines of information that bothersome, you should consult your
> doctor about this. Perhaps with some counseling and pills you can get your
> anger in check. Get for f__ real. I am not sure why my pine doesn't
> display a bunch of tags. It rarely does and it is version 4.21.
> 
> The second thing I wonder is when did Kirk R die? Why the hell do we have
> people who can't configure their GD computers making demands? How the hell
> do you know that people aren't in the process of converting? How the hell
> do you know that someone posting from a windows machine is not stuck using
> their company computer? 
> 
> Here is a suggestion: help those who bother you or shut the hell up! Write
> to the offender (privately) and explain your beef. When you see the
> occasional messge about character set just skip the next 32 lines. If you
> are above moron level you already know what they are on.
> 
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> 
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Brian Borowski]

Greg:
Maybe they can't aford a modem, but they sure can adjust settings to reduce
crap in their out-going mail, and if they don't know how, then find someone
who can help get through the settings and change it.  The idea, that an
empty message from a standard windows email client contains about 2K of
nothing is just stupid and a waste...

Brian Borowski


On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got broadband. But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes, there are some gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone has a supported modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be using pine, mutt, ETC. for their mail, take into consideration the fact that not everyone here can aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband connection.
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it again.
> > Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to post to
> > this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it for a
> > year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never want to
> > use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting it with
> > crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting (especially for
> > some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so that we
> > don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the damn html
> > repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a big
> > surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other mail
> > readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to see
> > (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down terribly,
> > just trying to get through the list.
> >
> > Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about including
> > messages including messages, including messages within eachother until
> > things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also notice, that
> > some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please, have
> > pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> > Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then put
> > their one line comment about it right at the end of all that stuff?  My
> > advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and have five or
> > ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and save us
> > all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before  so many
> > times?
> >
> > Brian Borowski
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

I have my mailer set to output plain text and my script set to western.
If windows obeys my commands, you get the kind of mail you should get.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Borowski" <brianb@braille.uwo.ca>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Greg:
Maybe they can't aford a modem, but they sure can adjust settings to
reduce
crap in their out-going mail, and if they don't know how, then find
someone
who can help get through the settings and change it.  The idea, that an
empty message from a standard windows email client contains about 2K of
nothing is just stupid and a waste...

Brian Borowski


On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got broadband.
But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes, there are
some gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone has a
supported modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be using pine,
mutt, ETC. for their mail, take into consideration the fact that not
everyone here can aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband
connection.
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it
again.
> > Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to
post to
> > this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it
for a
> > year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never
want to
> > use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting it
with
> > crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting (especially
for
> > some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so
that we
> > don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the damn
html
> > repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a
big
> > surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other
mail
> > readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to
see
> > (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down
terribly,
> > just trying to get through the list.
> >
> > Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about including
> > messages including messages, including messages within eachother
until
> > things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also
notice, that
> > some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please,
have
> > pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> > Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then
put
> > their one line comment about it right at the end of all that stuff?
My
> > advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and have
five or
> > ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and
save us
> > all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before
so many
> > times?
> >
> > Brian Borowski
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Janina Sajka]

David:

Is that what M$ calls Windows 1252 character set? Western?

In Pine, your mail always starts out with the following three lines that 
Pine inserts:


    [ The following text is in the "Windows-1252" character set. ]
    [ Your display is set for the "iso-8859-1" character set.  ]
    [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]

Now, as you and I both know, sighted people barely tend to even notice 
this stuff. But, we have to hack through it somehow--annoying perhaps, but 
reasonable enough if there's some content once one gets inside the mail. 
The trouble is, that a lot of stuff gets dumped with screenfuls of 
forwards, and unedited headers, and urls that are written for servers and 
not humans, and, and, and, well, you know what I mean, I think.

 On Fri, 1 
Feb 2002, David Poehlman wrote:

> I have my mailer set to output plain text and my script set to western.
> If windows obeys my commands, you get the kind of mail you should get.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Borowski" <brianb@braille.uwo.ca>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:41 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
> 
> 
> Greg:
> Maybe they can't aford a modem, but they sure can adjust settings to
> reduce
> crap in their out-going mail, and if they don't know how, then find
> someone
> who can help get through the settings and change it.  The idea, that an
> empty message from a standard windows email client contains about 2K of
> nothing is just stupid and a waste...
> 
> Brian Borowski
> 
> 
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got broadband.
> But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes, there are
> some gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone has a
> supported modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be using pine,
> mutt, ETC. for their mail, take into consideration the fact that not
> everyone here can aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband
> connection.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it
> again.
> > > Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to
> post to
> > > this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it
> for a
> > > year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never
> want to
> > > use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting it
> with
> > > crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting (especially
> for
> > > some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so
> that we
> > > don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the damn
> html
> > > repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a
> big
> > > surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other
> mail
> > > readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to
> see
> > > (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down
> terribly,
> > > just trying to get through the list.
> > >
> > > Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about including
> > > messages including messages, including messages within eachother
> until
> > > things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also
> notice, that
> > > some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please,
> have
> > > pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> > > Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then
> put
> > > their one line comment about it right at the end of all that stuff?
> My
> > > advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and have
> five or
> > > ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and
> save us
> > > all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before
> so many
> > > times?
> > >
> > > Brian Borowski
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

I'd love a way to correct this because believe it or not, I use pine
some times and find my messages annoying.  I also find it annoying to
see this stuff at the top of messages.  When I forward things, I do two
things.  I type my stuff if any at the top, and I try and strip out all
the junk that is not relevant if I do.  Often, I forward but change the
subject line and clip out all the header stuff.

windows has crashed due to the sending of an incorrect character set.
Please roll the dice again.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Thomas Stivers]

	Assuming you are using OE go to tools, options and then the send
tab. Tab until you get to what I believe is called international
settings... button and hit enter. Then you will be in a combo box of
char sets and the one you want is I believe western iso or something, but
it definitely has iso in it. If you can't find it next time I have to run
windows I will look.

-- 

--
Thomas Stivers
stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

test
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Stivers" <stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Assuming you are using OE go to tools, options and then the send
tab. Tab until you get to what I believe is called international
settings... button and hit enter. Then you will be in a combo box of
char sets and the one you want is I believe western iso or something,
but
it definitely has iso in it. If you can't find it next time I have to
run
windows I will look.

--

--
Thomas Stivers
stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Thomas Stivers]

You've got it! See guys don't complain about these little things give the
solution. *smile*

-- 

--
Thomas Stivers
stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

ah, interesting.  I changed to uuencode.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Stivers" <stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


You've got it! See guys don't complain about these little things give
the
solution. *smile*

--

--
Thomas Stivers
stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Janina Sajka]

Yep. You're in ISO 8895(1).

Now, please explain about the >< thingie. Are those being pronounced on 
you? They do serve a function, of course, but I can also understand why 
they're annoying with the current state of screen readers. Ideally, their 
presence at the beginning of a line of text should trigger some sonic 
change in the speech such as pitch, I would think.



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, David Poehlman wrote:

> test
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Stivers" <stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
> 
> 
> Assuming you are using OE go to tools, options and then the send
> tab. Tab until you get to what I believe is called international
> settings... button and hit enter. Then you will be in a combo box of
> char sets and the one you want is I believe western iso or something,
> but
> it definitely has iso in it. If you can't find it next time I have to
> run
> windows I will look.
> 
> --
> 
> --
> Thomas Stivers
> stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

yes, they are pronounced and I know I can kill them but then if I did
that, I'd get some char strings rong so don't want to.  In pine, you can
eliminate them from first generation forwarding and you can do this in
oe too.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Yep. You're in ISO 8895(1).

Now, please explain about the >< thingie. Are those being pronounced on
you? They do serve a function, of course, but I can also understand why
they're annoying with the current state of screen readers. Ideally,
their
presence at the beginning of a line of text should trigger some sonic
change in the speech such as pitch, I would think.



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, David Poehlman wrote:

> test
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Stivers" <stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> Assuming you are using OE go to tools, options and then the send
> tab. Tab until you get to what I believe is called international
> settings... button and hit enter. Then you will be in a combo box of
> char sets and the one you want is I believe western iso or something,
> but
> it definitely has iso in it. If you can't find it next time I have to
> run
> windows I will look.
>
> --
>
> --
> Thomas Stivers
> stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

I set symbols to most and I don't hear the > signs at all.  When I talk to
people, I don't say punctuation or symbols to them unless I'm describing the
syntax of something so don't see the need to hear it from speech output
either.  If I need to clarify the syntax of an item, then I review it with
the appropriate review features of a Screen Reader or verify with a Braile
Display when using a Braille Dislay.

Amanda Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


yes, they are pronounced and I know I can kill them but then if I did
that, I'd get some char strings rong so don't want to.  In pine, you can
eliminate them from first generation forwarding and you can do this in
oe too.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Yep. You're in ISO 8895(1).

Now, please explain about the >< thingie. Are those being pronounced on
you? They do serve a function, of course, but I can also understand why
they're annoying with the current state of screen readers. Ideally,
their
presence at the beginning of a line of text should trigger some sonic
change in the speech such as pitch, I would think.



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, David Poehlman wrote:

> test
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Stivers" <stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> Assuming you are using OE go to tools, options and then the send
> tab. Tab until you get to what I believe is called international
> settings... button and hit enter. Then you will be in a combo box of
> char sets and the one you want is I believe western iso or something,
> but
> it definitely has iso in it. If you can't find it next time I have to
> run
> windows I will look.
>
> --
>
> --
> Thomas Stivers
> stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

funny, when I have symbols to most, I do hear it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


I set symbols to most and I don't hear the > signs at all.  When I talk
to
people, I don't say punctuation or symbols to them unless I'm describing
the
syntax of something so don't see the need to hear it from speech output
either.  If I need to clarify the syntax of an item, then I review it
with
the appropriate review features of a Screen Reader or verify with a
Braile
Display when using a Braille Dislay.

Amanda Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


yes, they are pronounced and I know I can kill them but then if I did
that, I'd get some char strings rong so don't want to.  In pine, you can
eliminate them from first generation forwarding and you can do this in
oe too.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Yep. You're in ISO 8895(1).

Now, please explain about the >< thingie. Are those being pronounced on
you? They do serve a function, of course, but I can also understand why
they're annoying with the current state of screen readers. Ideally,
their
presence at the beginning of a line of text should trigger some sonic
change in the speech such as pitch, I would think.



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, David Poehlman wrote:

> test
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Stivers" <stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> Assuming you are using OE go to tools, options and then the send
> tab. Tab until you get to what I believe is called international
> settings... button and hit enter. Then you will be in a combo box of
> char sets and the one you want is I believe western iso or something,
> but
> it definitely has iso in it. If you can't find it next time I have to
> run
> windows I will look.
>
> --
>
> --
> Thomas Stivers
> stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

O' okay whatever JFW uses for turning off that symbol.  I don't hear it in
Window-Eyes or WinVision and use JFW so rarely that I don't remember and
when I do use JFW it's to drive the Braille Display only as I dislike how
Eloquence operates on the 266MHZ box I have at work and JFW does such a poor
job of implementing the Accent driver for the Artic Transport synthesizer.

Amanda


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


funny, when I have symbols to most, I do hear it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


I set symbols to most and I don't hear the > signs at all.  When I talk
to
people, I don't say punctuation or symbols to them unless I'm describing
the
syntax of something so don't see the need to hear it from speech output
either.  If I need to clarify the syntax of an item, then I review it
with
the appropriate review features of a Screen Reader or verify with a
Braile
Display when using a Braille Dislay.

Amanda Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


yes, they are pronounced and I know I can kill them but then if I did
that, I'd get some char strings rong so don't want to.  In pine, you can
eliminate them from first generation forwarding and you can do this in
oe too.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Yep. You're in ISO 8895(1).

Now, please explain about the >< thingie. Are those being pronounced on
you? They do serve a function, of course, but I can also understand why
they're annoying with the current state of screen readers. Ideally,
their
presence at the beginning of a line of text should trigger some sonic
change in the speech such as pitch, I would think.



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, David Poehlman wrote:

> test
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Stivers" <stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> Assuming you are using OE go to tools, options and then the send
> tab. Tab until you get to what I believe is called international
> settings... button and hit enter. Then you will be in a combo box of
> char sets and the one you want is I believe western iso or something,
> but
> it definitely has iso in it. If you can't find it next time I have to
> run
> windows I will look.
>
> --
>
> --
> Thomas Stivers
> stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

hmmm, I think I'd have to go to none for that to work.  I love the way
jaws works with my accent sa.  If I had to use eloq....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


O' okay whatever JFW uses for turning off that symbol.  I don't hear it
in
Window-Eyes or WinVision and use JFW so rarely that I don't remember and
when I do use JFW it's to drive the Braille Display only as I dislike
how
Eloquence operates on the 266MHZ box I have at work and JFW does such a
poor
job of implementing the Accent driver for the Artic Transport
synthesizer.

Amanda


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


funny, when I have symbols to most, I do hear it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


I set symbols to most and I don't hear the > signs at all.  When I talk
to
people, I don't say punctuation or symbols to them unless I'm describing
the
syntax of something so don't see the need to hear it from speech output
either.  If I need to clarify the syntax of an item, then I review it
with
the appropriate review features of a Screen Reader or verify with a
Braile
Display when using a Braille Dislay.

Amanda Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


yes, they are pronounced and I know I can kill them but then if I did
that, I'd get some char strings rong so don't want to.  In pine, you can
eliminate them from first generation forwarding and you can do this in
oe too.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Yep. You're in ISO 8895(1).

Now, please explain about the >< thingie. Are those being pronounced on
you? They do serve a function, of course, but I can also understand why
they're annoying with the current state of screen readers. Ideally,
their
presence at the beginning of a line of text should trigger some sonic
change in the speech such as pitch, I would think.



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, David Poehlman wrote:

> test
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Stivers" <stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> Assuming you are using OE go to tools, options and then the send
> tab. Tab until you get to what I believe is called international
> settings... button and hit enter. Then you will be in a combo box of
> char sets and the one you want is I believe western iso or something,
> but
> it definitely has iso in it. If you can't find it next time I have to
> run
> windows I will look.
>
> --
>
> --
> Thomas Stivers
> stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

I nuked them.  There is an option that I had overlooked in Text settings
there are two places in outlook express for Plain Text to be set and you
uncheck that box that says use > for reply, forward, etc.  I don't like it
either and it's a pain if you'd like to cut and paste stuff that you'd like
to provide in a presentable form.

Amanda Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Yep. You're in ISO 8895(1).

Now, please explain about the >< thingie. Are those being pronounced on
you? They do serve a function, of course, but I can also understand why
they're annoying with the current state of screen readers. Ideally, their
presence at the beginning of a line of text should trigger some sonic
change in the speech such as pitch, I would think.



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, David Poehlman wrote:

> test
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Stivers" <stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> Assuming you are using OE go to tools, options and then the send
> tab. Tab until you get to what I believe is called international
> settings... button and hit enter. Then you will be in a combo box of
> char sets and the one you want is I believe western iso or something,
> but
> it definitely has iso in it. If you can't find it next time I have to
> run
> windows I will look.
>
> --
>
> --
> Thomas Stivers
> stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

there are a bunch with iso but the one that is selected is western.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Stivers" <stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Assuming you are using OE go to tools, options and then the send
tab. Tab until you get to what I believe is called international
settings... button and hit enter. Then you will be in a combo box of
char sets and the one you want is I believe western iso or something,
but
it definitely has iso in it. If you can't find it next time I have to
run
windows I will look.

--

--
Thomas Stivers
stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

tip:Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

I just did this to see what it would do and it seems to have worked so
here it is.  if you use oe, open tools, open options, navigate to send,
tab to the plain text settings button, activate it and the first control
you will land on is message format, arrow down to uuencode and back out
propperly and the next message you send should be fine for non windows
mailers and others.

Hope this helps and I'm glad I discovered it.

Re: tip:Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

uuencoding refers to attached files and is much less convenient to use than
MIME enncoding, so I don't recommend using it.

Geoff.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Kirk Wood]

Actually I checked (I have both winblows and linux on seperate
machines) and the difference is before David had "Western European
(Windows)" and now he has "Western European (ISO)." This setting (in
OE6) is under Tools, Options, Send tab. Then go to the International
button. The encoding doesn't really matter to newer versions of pine.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

interesting because when I checked it, it said western iso but I moved
it around and moved it back and I believe cancelled out of it.  Quite
strange then that the only thing I seem to have changed is the message
format.  I'll look at some of my old messages.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Actually I checked (I have both winblows and linux on seperate
machines) and the difference is before David had "Western European
(Windows)" and now he has "Western European (ISO)." This setting (in
OE6) is under Tools, Options, Send tab. Then go to the International
button. The encoding doesn't really matter to newer versions of pine.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

David,
Do you have reply in same format as sender checked?  I'd uncheck tis which
will likely give OE or Outlook control over what format you're sending.

Amanda Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


> interesting because when I checked it, it said western iso but I moved
> it around and moved it back and I believe cancelled out of it.  Quite
> strange then that the only thing I seem to have changed is the message
> format.  I'll look at some of my old messages.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:01 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> Actually I checked (I have both winblows and linux on seperate
> machines) and the difference is before David had "Western European
> (Windows)" and now he has "Western European (ISO)." This setting (in
> OE6) is under Tools, Options, Send tab. Then go to the International
> button. The encoding doesn't really matter to newer versions of pine.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

I have it unchecked and what is even stranger is that before I set
message format to uuencode, I was able to find the listed char set in
the message source but there is none listed there now.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


David,
Do you have reply in same format as sender checked?  I'd uncheck tis
which
will likely give OE or Outlook control over what format you're sending.

Amanda Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


> interesting because when I checked it, it said western iso but I moved
> it around and moved it back and I believe cancelled out of it.  Quite
> strange then that the only thing I seem to have changed is the message
> format.  I'll look at some of my old messages.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:01 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> Actually I checked (I have both winblows and linux on seperate
> machines) and the difference is before David had "Western European
> (Windows)" and now he has "Western European (ISO)." This setting (in
> OE6) is under Tools, Options, Send tab. Then go to the International
> button. The encoding doesn't really matter to newer versions of pine.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

Did you try the Apply button before selecting OK to get out of the dialog
box?

Amanda

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


> I have it unchecked and what is even stranger is that before I set
> message format to uuencode, I was able to find the listed char set in
> the message source but there is none listed there now.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:24 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> David,
> Do you have reply in same format as sender checked?  I'd uncheck tis
> which
> will likely give OE or Outlook control over what format you're sending.
>
> Amanda Lee
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:15 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> > interesting because when I checked it, it said western iso but I moved
> > it around and moved it back and I believe cancelled out of it.  Quite
> > strange then that the only thing I seem to have changed is the message
> > format.  I'll look at some of my old messages.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
> >
> >
> > Actually I checked (I have both winblows and linux on seperate
> > machines) and the difference is before David had "Western European
> > (Windows)" and now he has "Western European (ISO)." This setting (in
> > OE6) is under Tools, Options, Send tab. Then go to the International
> > button. The encoding doesn't really matter to newer versions of pine.
> >
> > =======
> > Kirk Wood
> > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> >
> > Nowlan's Theory:
> >         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
> >         the next freeway exit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

it is unchecked and I have varified that it is unchecked.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Did you try the Apply button before selecting OK to get out of the
dialog
box?

Amanda

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


> I have it unchecked and what is even stranger is that before I set
> message format to uuencode, I was able to find the listed char set in
> the message source but there is none listed there now.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:24 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> David,
> Do you have reply in same format as sender checked?  I'd uncheck tis
> which
> will likely give OE or Outlook control over what format you're
sending.
>
> Amanda Lee
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:15 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> > interesting because when I checked it, it said western iso but I
moved
> > it around and moved it back and I believe cancelled out of it.
Quite
> > strange then that the only thing I seem to have changed is the
message
> > format.  I'll look at some of my old messages.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
> >
> >
> > Actually I checked (I have both winblows and linux on seperate
> > machines) and the difference is before David had "Western European
> > (Windows)" and now he has "Western European (ISO)." This setting (in
> > OE6) is under Tools, Options, Send tab. Then go to the International
> > button. The encoding doesn't really matter to newer versions of
pine.
> >
> > =======
> > Kirk Wood
> > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> >
> > Nowlan's Theory:
> >         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
> >         the next freeway exit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Steve Holmes]

Well David,

The char-set announcements are gone now so your messages apparently match
the character-set used by most of us pine users.  Actually, pine defaults
to us-ASCII and that clashed with more messages I used to read on here so
when I changed pine to use iso-8859-1, most of the conflicts were gone so
another one down and how many more to go:)

Now that we learned another config lesson about Outlook, can we move back
to linux and speakup? At least I thought this list was about speakup and
close friends.

On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, David Poehlman wrote:

> interesting because when I checked it, it said western iso but I moved
> it around and moved it back and I believe cancelled out of it.  Quite
> strange then that the only thing I seem to have changed is the message
> format.  I'll look at some of my old messages.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:01 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
>
>
> Actually I checked (I have both winblows and linux on seperate
> machines) and the difference is before David had "Western European
> (Windows)" and now he has "Western European (ISO)." This setting (in
> OE6) is under Tools, Options, Send tab. Then go to the International
> button. The encoding doesn't really matter to newer versions of pine.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

O'yeah cut out the krap y'all!

>snicker!> hahahhahah!  watch  your asscii!

Amanda Lee

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Gregory Nowak]

Perhaps, it would be a good idea for someone using outlook (I haven't used it for over a year now), to write a specific document detailing which radio buttons and so on should be checked or unchecked to set outlook up properly. It is true that this could be figured out, but there are some people out there that just won't take the time to find out how to configure outlook properly for blind lists. What's even worse is that some people don't even know how to find out how to configure outlook. They let their isps set things up for them with automated software, and they think that's it.
Greg


On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:41:00PM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> Greg:
> Maybe they can't aford a modem, but they sure can adjust settings to reduce
> crap in their out-going mail, and if they don't know how, then find someone
> who can help get through the settings and change it.  The idea, that an
> empty message from a standard windows email client contains about 2K of
> nothing is just stupid and a waste...
> 
> Brian Borowski
> 
> 
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got broadband. But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes, there are some gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone has a supported modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be using pine, mutt, ETC. for their mail, take into consideration the fact that not everyone here can aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband connection.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it again.
> > > Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to post to
> > > this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it for a
> > > year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never want to
> > > use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting it with
> > > crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting (especially for
> > > some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so that we
> > > don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the damn html
> > > repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a big
> > > surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other mail
> > > readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to see
> > > (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down terribly,
> > > just trying to get through the list.
> > >
> > > Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about including
> > > messages including messages, including messages within eachother until
> > > things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also notice, that
> > > some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please, have
> > > pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> > > Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then put
> > > their one line comment about it right at the end of all that stuff?  My
> > > advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and have five or
> > > ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and save us
> > > all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before  so many
> > > times?
> > >
> > > Brian Borowski
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

Greg,

How's mine look now?  ...  Mercy! sakes! I'm afraid to ask! cuz! I've opened
up the shooting gallery hahahah!

Amanda Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1@uic.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


> Perhaps, it would be a good idea for someone using outlook (I haven't used
it for over a year now), to write a specific document detailing which radio
buttons and so on should be checked or unchecked to set outlook up properly.
It is true that this could be figured out, but there are some people out
there that just won't take the time to find out how to configure outlook
properly for blind lists. What's even worse is that some people don't even
know how to find out how to configure outlook. They let their isps set
things up for them with automated software, and they think that's it.
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:41:00PM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > Greg:
> > Maybe they can't aford a modem, but they sure can adjust settings to
reduce
> > crap in their out-going mail, and if they don't know how, then find
someone
> > who can help get through the settings and change it.  The idea, that an
> > empty message from a standard windows email client contains about 2K of
> > nothing is just stupid and a waste...
> >
> > Brian Borowski
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got broadband.
But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes, there are some
gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone has a supported
modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be using pine, mutt, ETC.
for their mail, take into consideration the fact that not everyone here can
aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband connection.
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it
again.
> > > > Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to
post to
> > > > this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it
for a
> > > > year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never
want to
> > > > use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting it
with
> > > > crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting (especially
for
> > > > some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so
that we
> > > > don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the damn
html
> > > > repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a
big
> > > > surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other
mail
> > > > readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to
see
> > > > (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down
terribly,
> > > > just trying to get through the list.
> > > >
> > > > Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about including
> > > > messages including messages, including messages within eachother
until
> > > > things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also
notice, that
> > > > some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please,
have
> > > > pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> > > > Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then
put
> > > > their one line comment about it right at the end of all that stuff?
My
> > > > advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and have
five or
> > > > ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and
save us
> > > > all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before
so many
> > > > times?
> > > >
> > > > Brian Borowski
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Gregory Nowak]

Looks fine to me Amanda.
Greg


On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:36:29PM -0500, Amanda Lee wrote:
> Greg,
> 
> How's mine look now?  ...  Mercy! sakes! I'm afraid to ask! cuz! I've opened
> up the shooting gallery hahahah!
> 
> Amanda Lee
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1@uic.edu>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:37 PM
> Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
> 
> 
> > Perhaps, it would be a good idea for someone using outlook (I haven't used
> it for over a year now), to write a specific document detailing which radio
> buttons and so on should be checked or unchecked to set outlook up properly.
> It is true that this could be figured out, but there are some people out
> there that just won't take the time to find out how to configure outlook
> properly for blind lists. What's even worse is that some people don't even
> know how to find out how to configure outlook. They let their isps set
> things up for them with automated software, and they think that's it.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:41:00PM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > Greg:
> > > Maybe they can't aford a modem, but they sure can adjust settings to
> reduce
> > > crap in their out-going mail, and if they don't know how, then find
> someone
> > > who can help get through the settings and change it.  The idea, that an
> > > empty message from a standard windows email client contains about 2K of
> > > nothing is just stupid and a waste...
> > >
> > > Brian Borowski
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > >
> > > > Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got broadband.
> But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes, there are some
> gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone has a supported
> modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be using pine, mutt, ETC.
> for their mail, take into consideration the fact that not everyone here can
> aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband connection.
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it
> again.
> > > > > Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to
> post to
> > > > > this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it
> for a
> > > > > year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never
> want to
> > > > > use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting it
> with
> > > > > crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting (especially
> for
> > > > > some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so
> that we
> > > > > don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the damn
> html
> > > > > repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a
> big
> > > > > surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other
> mail
> > > > > readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to
> see
> > > > > (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down
> terribly,
> > > > > just trying to get through the list.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about including
> > > > > messages including messages, including messages within eachother
> until
> > > > > things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also
> notice, that
> > > > > some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please,
> have
> > > > > pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> > > > > Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then
> put
> > > > > their one line comment about it right at the end of all that stuff?
> My
> > > > > advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and have
> five or
> > > > > ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and
> save us
> > > > > all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before
> so many
> > > > > times?
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Amanda Lee]

Great! now I can sleep at night! hahaah!

Thanks!

Amanda Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1@uic.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


> Looks fine to me Amanda.
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:36:29PM -0500, Amanda Lee wrote:
> > Greg,
> >
> > How's mine look now?  ...  Mercy! sakes! I'm afraid to ask! cuz! I've
opened
> > up the shooting gallery hahahah!
> >
> > Amanda Lee
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1@uic.edu>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...
> >
> >
> > > Perhaps, it would be a good idea for someone using outlook (I haven't
used
> > it for over a year now), to write a specific document detailing which
radio
> > buttons and so on should be checked or unchecked to set outlook up
properly.
> > It is true that this could be figured out, but there are some people out
> > there that just won't take the time to find out how to configure outlook
> > properly for blind lists. What's even worse is that some people don't
even
> > know how to find out how to configure outlook. They let their isps set
> > things up for them with automated software, and they think that's it.
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:41:00PM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > Greg:
> > > > Maybe they can't aford a modem, but they sure can adjust settings to
> > reduce
> > > > crap in their out-going mail, and if they don't know how, then find
> > someone
> > > > who can help get through the settings and change it.  The idea, that
an
> > > > empty message from a standard windows email client contains about 2K
of
> > > > nothing is just stupid and a waste...
> > > >
> > > > Brian Borowski
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got
broadband.
> > But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes, there are
some
> > gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone has a supported
> > modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be using pine, mutt,
ETC.
> > for their mail, take into consideration the fact that not everyone here
can
> > aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband connection.
> > > > > Greg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > > I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing
it
> > again.
> > > > > > Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to
> > post to
> > > > > > this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing
it
> > for a
> > > > > > year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never
> > want to
> > > > > > use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting
it
> > with
> > > > > > crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting
(especially
> > for
> > > > > > some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so
> > that we
> > > > > > don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the
damn
> > html
> > > > > > repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as
a
> > big
> > > > > > surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and
other
> > mail
> > > > > > readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want
to
> > see
> > > > > > (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down
> > terribly,
> > > > > > just trying to get through the list.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about
including
> > > > > > messages including messages, including messages within eachother
> > until
> > > > > > things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also
> > notice, that
> > > > > > some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages;
please,
> > have
> > > > > > pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> > > > > > Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and
then
> > put
> > > > > > their one line comment about it right at the end of all that
stuff?
> > My
> > > > > > advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and
have
> > five or
> > > > > > ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and
> > save us
> > > > > > all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen
before
> > so many
> > > > > > times?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

how should a mailer be set up for a "blind" list?  we need to define
that before we can move forward.  I may be on a blind list that is for
windows stuff and everybody uses a windows mailer and it's all ok.  I do
understand and agree with a lot of what you say here though.  I manually
set up every mailer i install or use.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1@uic.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


Perhaps, it would be a good idea for someone using outlook (I haven't
used it for over a year now), to write a specific document detailing
which radio buttons and so on should be checked or unchecked to set
outlook up properly. It is true that this could be figured out, but
there are some people out there that just won't take the time to find
out how to configure outlook properly for blind lists. What's even worse
is that some people don't even know how to find out how to configure
outlook. They let their isps set things up for them with automated
software, and they think that's it.
Greg


On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:41:00PM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> Greg:
> Maybe they can't aford a modem, but they sure can adjust settings to
reduce
> crap in their out-going mail, and if they don't know how, then find
someone
> who can help get through the settings and change it.  The idea, that
an
> empty message from a standard windows email client contains about 2K
of
> nothing is just stupid and a waste...
>
> Brian Borowski
>
>
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
> > Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got
broadband. But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes,
there are some gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone
has a supported modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be using
pine, mutt, ETC. for their mail, take into consideration the fact that
not everyone here can aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband
connection.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it
again.
> > > Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to
post to
> > > this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it
for a
> > > year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never
want to
> > > use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting
it with
> > > crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting
(especially for
> > > some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so
that we
> > > don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the
damn html
> > > repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a
big
> > > surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other
mail
> > > readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to
see
> > > (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down
terribly,
> > > just trying to get through the list.
> > >
> > > Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about
including
> > > messages including messages, including messages within eachother
until
> > > things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also
notice, that
> > > some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please,
have
> > > pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> > > Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then
put
> > > their one line comment about it right at the end of all that
stuff?  My
> > > advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and
have five or
> > > ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and
save us
> > > all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before
so many
> > > times?
> > >
> > > Brian Borowski
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Steve Holmes]

Yea, I don't like the notion of "setting up for blind lists" either.
PC-audio is an example of a "blind list" but I really think most of the
users are using windows stuff.  For that reason, the junk we're wining
about here is a non issue to them unless someone is using a mailer that
can't handle HTML mail.

A complaint was made here over half a week ago and now this list is
turning into a windows outlook support list or something.  If someone
feels that strongly about getting others to readjust their mail output,
they should communicate privately with them perhaps.

I think the far bigger issue has nothing to do with windows or outlook,
but would have to do with quoting styles and all that.  We've already gone
there.  I would think the popular consensis is to try and put your answer
at the top of the mail and leave any necessary quoting after that.  I'm
lazy too and often forget to proon the section being replied to but
atleast one's reading time can be reduced if they don't have to read
through all the history of the thread first.  There ain't a filter out
there to clean that up for the reader.

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[Angelo Sonnesso]

It is easier then you would think.
When you respond to a message in Outlook express the reply address is
automatically placed in the address book.
You go in to the address book go to the address you want.
Press enter.
Press ctrl-tab once.
Press shift-tab until you come to a box that says "send as plain text.
Hit the space bar to check the box.
Press tab once and press the space bar, or the enter key and you are done.

> Perhaps, it would be a good idea for someone using outlook (I haven't
> used it for over a year now), to write a specific document detailing
> which radio buttons and so on should be checked or unchecked to set
> outlook up properly. It is true that this could be figured out, but
> there are some people out there that just won't take the time to find
> out how to configure outlook properly for blind lists. What's even worse
> is that some people don't even know how to find out how to configure
> outlook. They let their isps set things up for them with automated
> software, and they think that's it.
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:41:00PM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > Greg:
> > Maybe they can't aford a modem, but they sure can adjust settings to
> reduce
> > crap in their out-going mail, and if they don't know how, then find
> someone
> > who can help get through the settings and change it.  The idea, that
> an
> > empty message from a standard windows email client contains about 2K
> of
> > nothing is just stupid and a waste...
> >
> > Brian Borowski
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got
> broadband. But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes,
> there are some gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone
> has a supported modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be using
> pine, mutt, ETC. for their mail, take into consideration the fact that
> not everyone here can aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband
> connection.
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing it
> again.
> > > > Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to
> post to
> > > > this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing it
> for a
> > > > year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never
> want to
> > > > use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting
> it with
> > > > crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting
> (especially for
> > > > some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so
> that we
> > > > don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the
> damn html
> > > > repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as a
> big
> > > > surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and other
> mail
> > > > readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want to
> see
> > > > (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down
> terribly,
> > > > just trying to get through the list.
> > > >
> > > > Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about
> including
> > > > messages including messages, including messages within eachother
> until
> > > > things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also
> notice, that
> > > > some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages; please,
> have
> > > > pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> > > > Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and then
> put
> > > > their one line comment about it right at the end of all that
> stuff?  My
> > > > advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and
> have five or
> > > > ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and
> save us
> > > > all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen before
> so many
> > > > times?
> > > >
> > > > Brian Borowski
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...

[David Poehlman]

not that easy.  I have all my addresses set to plain text and also, have
turned off that annoying put addresses I reply to in my addressbook
because as an old pine hack, I like using nicknames.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Angelo Sonnesso" <asonnesso@coastalnet.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: So much Windows Mailer crap on this list...


It is easier then you would think.
When you respond to a message in Outlook express the reply address is
automatically placed in the address book.
You go in to the address book go to the address you want.
Press enter.
Press ctrl-tab once.
Press shift-tab until you come to a box that says "send as plain text.
Hit the space bar to check the box.
Press tab once and press the space bar, or the enter key and you are
done.

> Perhaps, it would be a good idea for someone using outlook (I haven't
> used it for over a year now), to write a specific document detailing
> which radio buttons and so on should be checked or unchecked to set
> outlook up properly. It is true that this could be figured out, but
> there are some people out there that just won't take the time to find
> out how to configure outlook properly for blind lists. What's even
worse
> is that some people don't even know how to find out how to configure
> outlook. They let their isps set things up for them with automated
> software, and they think that's it.
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:41:00PM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > Greg:
> > Maybe they can't aford a modem, but they sure can adjust settings to
> reduce
> > crap in their out-going mail, and if they don't know how, then find
> someone
> > who can help get through the settings and change it.  The idea, that
> an
> > empty message from a standard windows email client contains about 2K
> of
> > nothing is just stupid and a waste...
> >
> > Brian Borowski
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > Fortunately, this doesn't appply to me anymore since I got
> broadband. But, you know, hardware modems are not exactly cheap. Yes,
> there are some gnu/linux drivers for windows modems, but not everyone
> has a supported modem. So, if you'd like people on this list to be
using
> pine, mutt, ETC. for their mail, take into consideration the fact that
> not everyone here can aford a new modem, or an expensive broadband
> connection.
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:20:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > I guess this has been discussed bofore, but I can't help doing
it
> again.
> > > > Why do so many people use outlook and other Windows utilities to
> post to
> > > > this list?  It's understandable if you're a new user, but doing
it
> for a
> > > > year or two, makes me wonder; if you're a Windows user and never
> want to
> > > > use linux to do your stuff; get off the list, and stop polluting
> it with
> > > > crap.  If you're a  windows user, and insist on posting
> (especially for
> > > > some of those high-volume posters), then change your settings so
> that we
> > > > don't have to se a couple of Kbytes of header, and shut off the
> damn html
> > > > repeat of your message that shows up at the end.  It may come as
a
> big
> > > > surprise to some people, but when us people who use pine and
other
> mail
> > > > readers have to go through hundreds of messages; we don't want
to
> see
> > > > (hear) all that garbage; it's a nuisance, and it slows us down
> terribly,
> > > > just trying to get through the list.
> > > >
> > > > Also, I'm in complete agreement with the complaints about
> including
> > > > messages including messages, including messages within eachother
> until
> > > > things get huge; it's a waste of bandwidth, and time.  I also
> notice, that
> > > > some users seem to post multiple copies of their messages;
please,
> have
> > > > pity on us who read our mail?  While I'm complaining:
> > > > Why do people include 50 or 100 lines of others messages, and
then
> put
> > > > their one line comment about it right at the end of all that
> stuff?  My
> > > > advice, is that if you're going to include all that stuff, and
> have five or
> > > > ten words to say about; why not put your comment at the top, and
> save us
> > > > all that reading through stuff we've probably already seen
before
> so many
> > > > times?
> > > >
> > > > Brian Borowski
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>


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