Re: NFB Net goes linux!

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Charles Crawford]

Glad to see Dave from NFB doing Linux.  See, ACB and NFB don't always 
disagree!  Grin.

-- charlie Crawford.

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Yeh, but he's tossing out his telnet clientel, poof, instead of using
ssh in order to accommodate 'em.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Paul Migliorelli (+1 3 0 3 5 4 3 2 3 1 1)]

Hmmmm.  Yet they immediately say they're dropping telnet, like many 
others??  A shame!!

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Yeh, Paul, I wrote him about it.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Alex Snow]

Tell him also that there are plenty of bbs packages for linux and to check
out www.synchro.net
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi all,
>
> Yeh, Paul, I wrote him about it.
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ryan Mann]

There is also Citadel/UX, http://uncensored.citadel.org/citadel/.


On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> Tell him also that there are plenty of bbs packages for linux and to check
> out www.synchro.net
> Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
> sick of Winblows!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:24 PM
> Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Yeh, Paul, I wrote him about it.
> >
> > Ann P.
> >
> > --
> > Ann K. Parsons
> > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
> JRRT
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Paul,

Well, on one hand, I can understand why they'd want to drop telnet; it is
*horribly* insecure!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Migliorelli (+1 3 0 3 5 4 3 2 3 1 1)" <paulmigs@migliorelli.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hmmmm.  Yet they immediately say they're dropping telnet, like many
> others??  A shame!!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Naw, Alex, they can RTFM. 

<smile> Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[David Poehlman]

so they don't know how to use ssh?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


Hi Paul,

Well, on one hand, I can understand why they'd want to drop telnet; it
is
*horribly* insecure!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Migliorelli (+1 3 0 3 5 4 3 2 3 1 1)"
<paulmigs@migliorelli.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hmmmm.  Yet they immediately say they're dropping telnet, like many
> others??  A shame!!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
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Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Scott B. Berry]

You know it suprises me that he would go linux.  I have just a bit of
experience but I have to say I am really enjoying it you have so much
control but it is a good learning curve but it keeps the mind active.
Scott Berry
Msn: electronicman1960@hotmail.com
Yahoo Messenger: electronicman1960
If you are interested in scanning and you are blind please come join our
police scanner list.  To subscribe send a message to:
mailto:blindscanner-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mann" <rmann@rmisp.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> There is also Citadel/UX, http://uncensored.citadel.org/citadel/.
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
>
> > Tell him also that there are plenty of bbs packages for linux and to
check
> > out www.synchro.net
> > Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll.
I'm
> > sick of Winblows!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Yeh, Paul, I wrote him about it.
> > >
> > > Ann P.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ann K. Parsons
> > > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are
lost."
> > JRRT
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Buddy Brannan]

On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 08:12:00PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Naw, Alex, they can RTFM. 

It may be as simple as that, or maybe not. I know something about a
Cobalt box was mentioned. From what I understand, these are machines
made by a division of Sun (or something) as plug-and-play sort of web
server machines...which is to say...who knows how configurable they
are out of the box without some real know-how? I had an account on an
ISP who used one of these...and the Web control panel had some
gratuitous Javascript to handle account maintenance. The admins said
they couldn't change the interface as it came that way from the
factory pre-installed. I know nothing about these machines...but it
could be that all of the stuff is set up in such a way as to make
admin of the machine easy for those who don't know a lot about the
underlying OS...but hard to modify and get into the innards. 

On the other hand, it could be that Dave doesn't feel like reading the
manual after all. 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3   | "And if the ground yawned,
Phone: (814) 455-7333     | I'd step to the side and say,
Email: davros@ycardz.com  | "Hey ground! I'm nobody's lunch!"
http://www.ycardz.com/    | --Eddie From Ohio

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Erik Heil]

As far as I know, those boxes run Solaris or Linux, and such interfaces can
be changed, but you would need to know how to edit scripts or get under the
hood.  I personally don't have any experience with any of those boxes, so
this is only what I'd assume in such situations.  IMHO JavaScript is just a
waste of time--usually it is used to perform some kind of client validation.
i.e. Check if data is entered within some kind of field masks, etc.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 08:12:00PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Naw, Alex, they can RTFM.
>
> It may be as simple as that, or maybe not. I know something about a
> Cobalt box was mentioned. From what I understand, these are machines
> made by a division of Sun (or something) as plug-and-play sort of web
> server machines...which is to say...who knows how configurable they
> are out of the box without some real know-how? I had an account on an
> ISP who used one of these...and the Web control panel had some
> gratuitous Javascript to handle account maintenance. The admins said
> they couldn't change the interface as it came that way from the
> factory pre-installed. I know nothing about these machines...but it
> could be that all of the stuff is set up in such a way as to make
> admin of the machine easy for those who don't know a lot about the
> underlying OS...but hard to modify and get into the innards.
>
> On the other hand, it could be that Dave doesn't feel like reading the
> manual after all.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3   | "And if the ground yawned,
> Phone: (814) 455-7333     | I'd step to the side and say,
> Email: davros@ycardz.com  | "Hey ground! I'm nobody's lunch!"
> http://www.ycardz.com/    | --Eddie From Ohio
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Scott Howell]

In all this talk of telnet, did anyone mention ssh to him? Telnet is a
very bad thing as far as I'm concerned as a service on the internet, but
ssh is by far a much better bet.

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Scott Howell]

You know if it is one of the plug N play server deals, I'd be amazed they
wouldn't have ssh on there. Its possible they do and no telnet..hmmm

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Buddy,

At the corporate headquarters of the company for which I am employed, we
have 4 of these Cobalt boxes.  The boxes we have do run Linux.  They do come
preconfigured to meet the needs of the vast majority of anyone who would
ever want to operate them, either as admins or as customers.  We use them to
provide domain e-mail and web hosting services.

Though the admin is not locked out of any aspect of administering these
boxes, it is definitely discouraged by their manufacturer, who indicates
that use of the root user/password might permit alterations which could void
any warranty.

Some of my co-workers don't really like these boxes very much; they're the
geeks who like to be able to tinker with all aspects of a computer's
operation.  I like to think I tend to take a more middle-of-the-road
approach.  For our customers, who just want reliable and user-friendly
e-mail and web hosting, they're just fine.

Thanks.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 08:12:00PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Naw, Alex, they can RTFM.
>
> It may be as simple as that, or maybe not. I know something about a
> Cobalt box was mentioned. From what I understand, these are machines
> made by a division of Sun (or something) as plug-and-play sort of web
> server machines...which is to say...who knows how configurable they
> are out of the box without some real know-how? I had an account on an
> ISP who used one of these...and the Web control panel had some
> gratuitous Javascript to handle account maintenance. The admins said
> they couldn't change the interface as it came that way from the
> factory pre-installed. I know nothing about these machines...but it
> could be that all of the stuff is set up in such a way as to make
> admin of the machine easy for those who don't know a lot about the
> underlying OS...but hard to modify and get into the innards.
>
> On the other hand, it could be that Dave doesn't feel like reading the
> manual after all.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3   | "And if the ground yawned,
> Phone: (814) 455-7333     | I'd step to the side and say,
> Email: davros@ycardz.com  | "Hey ground! I'm nobody's lunch!"
> http://www.ycardz.com/    | --Eddie From Ohio
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Yeh, ain't that interestin'?  Keeps the mind active, yes indeed it
do.  It's an active interface instead of a passive one.  It forces the
brain to assimilate information and to keep the memory sharp.  You
could run Windows if you had Alsheimers, so long as you remembered
what the icons meant.  You could just use the arrow keys and work the
menus that way if you were blind and using speech, simplist thing in
the world.  

Linux makes you think, makes you want to learn more.  Demands more of
you, forces you to seek the meaning of obscure language and syntax.  

Ann P.
>>>>> "Scott" == Scott B Berry <n7zib@tritel.net> writes:

    Scott> You know it suprises me that he would go linux.  I have
    Scott> just a bit of experience but I have to say I am really
    Scott> enjoying it you have so much control but it is a good
    Scott> learning curve but it keeps the mind active.  Scott Berry

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Well, now, old Buddy, one would think that his motives would be fueled
by logic.  If one were going to buy or be given apparatus for
maintaining the email lists, web and so on of an organization, one
would desire the best equipment, but one would also make sure that it
was configurable by those who were going to use it.  It makes no sense
to have equipment in one's office that one can not configure by
oneself.  Even if the learning curve were steep, it would make sense
that any equipment should be flexible enough to be configured by the
blind and not the sighted.  But then, who ever said members of that
organization thought logically or had a modicum of common sense? 

Ann P.
 
-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Ayeh, wrote him privately, told him to read up on SSH. 

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Alex Snow]

I deffinattely wouldn't like a computer that I couldn't screw around with
it's configuration.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi Buddy,
>
> At the corporate headquarters of the company for which I am employed, we
> have 4 of these Cobalt boxes.  The boxes we have do run Linux.  They do
come
> preconfigured to meet the needs of the vast majority of anyone who would
> ever want to operate them, either as admins or as customers.  We use them
to
> provide domain e-mail and web hosting services.
>
> Though the admin is not locked out of any aspect of administering these
> boxes, it is definitely discouraged by their manufacturer, who indicates
> that use of the root user/password might permit alterations which could
void
> any warranty.
>
> Some of my co-workers don't really like these boxes very much; they're the
> geeks who like to be able to tinker with all aspects of a computer's
> operation.  I like to think I tend to take a more middle-of-the-road
> approach.  For our customers, who just want reliable and user-friendly
> e-mail and web hosting, they're just fine.
>
> Thanks.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
>
>
> > On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 08:12:00PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Naw, Alex, they can RTFM.
> >
> > It may be as simple as that, or maybe not. I know something about a
> > Cobalt box was mentioned. From what I understand, these are machines
> > made by a division of Sun (or something) as plug-and-play sort of web
> > server machines...which is to say...who knows how configurable they
> > are out of the box without some real know-how? I had an account on an
> > ISP who used one of these...and the Web control panel had some
> > gratuitous Javascript to handle account maintenance. The admins said
> > they couldn't change the interface as it came that way from the
> > factory pre-installed. I know nothing about these machines...but it
> > could be that all of the stuff is set up in such a way as to make
> > admin of the machine easy for those who don't know a lot about the
> > underlying OS...but hard to modify and get into the innards.
> >
> > On the other hand, it could be that Dave doesn't feel like reading the
> > manual after all.
> > --
> > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3   | "And if the ground yawned,
> > Phone: (814) 455-7333     | I'd step to the side and say,
> > Email: davros@ycardz.com  | "Hey ground! I'm nobody's lunch!"
> > http://www.ycardz.com/    | --Eddie From Ohio
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Alex Snow]

The telnet's just for a bbs, not to actually use the box.  I don't know any
bbs progs that support ssh
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> In all this talk of telnet, did anyone mention ssh to him? Telnet is a
> very bad thing as far as I'm concerned as a service on the internet, but
> ssh is by far a much better bet.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Alex Snow]

They should just fdisk the drive and install a regular form of linux.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 08:12:00PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Naw, Alex, they can RTFM.
>
> It may be as simple as that, or maybe not. I know something about a
> Cobalt box was mentioned. From what I understand, these are machines
> made by a division of Sun (or something) as plug-and-play sort of web
> server machines...which is to say...who knows how configurable they
> are out of the box without some real know-how? I had an account on an
> ISP who used one of these...and the Web control panel had some
> gratuitous Javascript to handle account maintenance. The admins said
> they couldn't change the interface as it came that way from the
> factory pre-installed. I know nothing about these machines...but it
> could be that all of the stuff is set up in such a way as to make
> admin of the machine easy for those who don't know a lot about the
> underlying OS...but hard to modify and get into the innards.
>
> On the other hand, it could be that Dave doesn't feel like reading the
> manual after all.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3   | "And if the ground yawned,
> Phone: (814) 455-7333     | I'd step to the side and say,
> Email: davros@ycardz.com  | "Hey ground! I'm nobody's lunch!"
> http://www.ycardz.com/    | --Eddie From Ohio
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Scott Howell]

You know folks I've been reading all the various threads about Linux vs
windows etc. How one makes you think over the other etc. I think again
your comparing apples and oranges. Both are fruits, but otherwise, I
think the similarities come to a quick end.
The differences you are comparing are between the console or shell to a
gui. Yes a shell forces you to type commands that a gui interface does
not, but does that make one user better than another? No absolutely not.
Not only do folks learn and understand the same thing differently, folks
might just as well differ on their preference of interface.
Do I think windows of any form compares in performance or quality to
Linux? No way, but then we're taling os functionality and performance not
user ability.
Ay face the facts folks that most people are not interested in how that
command is executed, but instead on how to accomplish the task as quickly
as possible. Does that make them less a person? If you think so, your a
sad case for sure. You then fail to recognize the differences in those
around you. They all don't have to use a computer as you. Some of us are
interested in what makes it tick and others are only interested in if it
works. I think that is perfectly fine.
To bring this entire thing into perspective, lets apply this line of
thinking. If you bought a car and yeah a bad line of thought, but follow
it with me. You buy this car, you likely first are concerned only with
the features and its performance in getting you where you want to go.
Then you have others who are not just concerned with this, but are also
concerned with how to get more out of it, modifying it, and so on.
Just remember also that if you continue to beat down windows users, your
making a clear statement to those folks who just might be willing to try
Linux and you'll be scaring them off.
Besides, if your going to rag on windows users, you'd best add in the
users of Gnome etc. They are using a gui as well.

Off my soapbox.

tnx


Scott

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Mitchell Smith]

Ummm many bbs programs for Linux that I know of just replace your shell in
/etc/passwd so there is no reason that this wouldn't work for ssh as well as
it would for telnet.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow@gmx.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> The telnet's just for a bbs, not to actually use the box.  I don't know
any
> bbs progs that support ssh
> Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
> sick of Winblows!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 11:05 PM
> Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
>
>
> > In all this talk of telnet, did anyone mention ssh to him? Telnet is a
> > very bad thing as far as I'm concerned as a service on the internet, but
> > ssh is by far a much better bet.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Does everything have to be turned into an nfb bashing session?


--
If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can
go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi all,
>
> Well, now, old Buddy, one would think that his motives would be fueled
> by logic.  If one were going to buy or be given apparatus for
> maintaining the email lists, web and so on of an organization, one
> would desire the best equipment, but one would also make sure that it
> was configurable by those who were going to use it.  It makes no sense
> to have equipment in one's office that one can not configure by
> oneself.  Even if the learning curve were steep, it would make sense
> that any equipment should be flexible enough to be configured by the
> blind and not the sighted.  But then, who ever said members of that
> organization thought logically or had a modicum of common sense?

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Oh, I'm not railing against others who use that OS, Scott.  I spent
half of today in a class on MSIE.  Why?  Because people use it and
expect me to know about it in order to teach it.  If gnome is like
Windows, that is fine, I hope that it will be more stable and not have
a tendency to crash as often.  

No, you're absolutely right.  People learn in different ways and they
need different things from their computers.    Besides, I would never
say that someone is bad simply because he or she used Windows.  There
is much, much more to an individual than what OS he or she chooses to
use.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Alex,

Well, even with the Cobalt boxes, it is most certainly possible to obtain
full root access in the same way you would with any other system.  Since the
Cobalts are a turn-key custom implementation of Linux, it is also somewhat
understandable why the manufacturer's warranty is void if you screw around
after logging in as root.  That's why you can get and install RedHat or some
other Linux distro on a more generic PC to obtain full flexibility in your
system configuration.  I guess it all depends on the task at hand.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow@gmx.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> I deffinattely wouldn't like a computer that I couldn't screw around with
> it's configuration.
> Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
> sick of Winblows!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 1:14 AM
> Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
>
>
> > Hi Buddy,
> >
> > At the corporate headquarters of the company for which I am employed, we
> > have 4 of these Cobalt boxes.  The boxes we have do run Linux.  They do
> come
> > preconfigured to meet the needs of the vast majority of anyone who would
> > ever want to operate them, either as admins or as customers.  We use
them
> to
> > provide domain e-mail and web hosting services.
> >
> > Though the admin is not locked out of any aspect of administering these
> > boxes, it is definitely discouraged by their manufacturer, who indicates
> > that use of the root user/password might permit alterations which could
> void
> > any warranty.
> >
> > Some of my co-workers don't really like these boxes very much; they're
the
> > geeks who like to be able to tinker with all aspects of a computer's
> > operation.  I like to think I tend to take a more middle-of-the-road
> > approach.  For our customers, who just want reliable and user-friendly
> > e-mail and web hosting, they're just fine.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
> >
> >
> > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 08:12:00PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Naw, Alex, they can RTFM.
> > >
> > > It may be as simple as that, or maybe not. I know something about a
> > > Cobalt box was mentioned. From what I understand, these are machines
> > > made by a division of Sun (or something) as plug-and-play sort of web
> > > server machines...which is to say...who knows how configurable they
> > > are out of the box without some real know-how? I had an account on an
> > > ISP who used one of these...and the Web control panel had some
> > > gratuitous Javascript to handle account maintenance. The admins said
> > > they couldn't change the interface as it came that way from the
> > > factory pre-installed. I know nothing about these machines...but it
> > > could be that all of the stuff is set up in such a way as to make
> > > admin of the machine easy for those who don't know a lot about the
> > > underlying OS...but hard to modify and get into the innards.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, it could be that Dave doesn't feel like reading the
> > > manual after all.
> > > --
> > > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3   | "And if the ground yawned,
> > > Phone: (814) 455-7333     | I'd step to the side and say,
> > > Email: davros@ycardz.com  | "Hey ground! I'm nobody's lunch!"
> > > http://www.ycardz.com/    | --Eddie From Ohio
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Ann,

Keep in mind that Linux is actually not appropriate for most users,
especially the command-line interface.  Most people want their technology to
be simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the computer works or
anything of that sort.  They just want to use it to get work done!  For
those non-technical users, Linux is typically inappropriate at this stage;
that is changing, but these are the facts at this time.  And, this is coming
from a Linux sys admin with 2 Linux boxes at home and administrative
responsibility for numerous FreeBSD and Linux boxes at work.

See, where I work, system admins also handle sales and technical support, so
I am made aware of the non-technical nature of most people who use a
computer on a daily basis.

Thanks.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi all,
>
> Yeh, ain't that interestin'?  Keeps the mind active, yes indeed it
> do.  It's an active interface instead of a passive one.  It forces the
> brain to assimilate information and to keep the memory sharp.  You
> could run Windows if you had Alsheimers, so long as you remembered
> what the icons meant.  You could just use the arrow keys and work the
> menus that way if you were blind and using speech, simplist thing in
> the world.
>
> Linux makes you think, makes you want to learn more.  Demands more of
> you, forces you to seek the meaning of obscure language and syntax.
>
> Ann P.
> >>>>> "Scott" == Scott B Berry <n7zib@tritel.net> writes:
>
>     Scott> You know it suprises me that he would go linux.  I have
>     Scott> just a bit of experience but I have to say I am really
>     Scott> enjoying it you have so much control but it is a good
>     Scott> learning curve but it keeps the mind active.  Scott Berry
>
> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[David Poehlman]

yes, because they deserve bashing.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul@asmodean.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


Does everything have to be turned into an nfb bashing session?


--
If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure
can
go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi all,
>
> Well, now, old Buddy, one would think that his motives would be fueled
> by logic.  If one were going to buy or be given apparatus for
> maintaining the email lists, web and so on of an organization, one
> would desire the best equipment, but one would also make sure that it
> was configurable by those who were going to use it.  It makes no sense
> to have equipment in one's office that one can not configure by
> oneself.  Even if the learning curve were steep, it would make sense
> that any equipment should be flexible enough to be configured by the
> blind and not the sighted.  But then, who ever said members of that
> organization thought logically or had a modicum of common sense?



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[David Poehlman]

Ihave a non technical spous who loves the command line interface.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


Hi Ann,

Keep in mind that Linux is actually not appropriate for most users,
especially the command-line interface.  Most people want their
technology to
be simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the computer works
or
anything of that sort.  They just want to use it to get work done!  For
those non-technical users, Linux is typically inappropriate at this
stage;
that is changing, but these are the facts at this time.  And, this is
coming
from a Linux sys admin with 2 Linux boxes at home and administrative
responsibility for numerous FreeBSD and Linux boxes at work.

See, where I work, system admins also handle sales and technical
support, so
I am made aware of the non-technical nature of most people who use a
computer on a daily basis.

Thanks.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi all,
>
> Yeh, ain't that interestin'?  Keeps the mind active, yes indeed it
> do.  It's an active interface instead of a passive one.  It forces the
> brain to assimilate information and to keep the memory sharp.  You
> could run Windows if you had Alsheimers, so long as you remembered
> what the icons meant.  You could just use the arrow keys and work the
> menus that way if you were blind and using speech, simplist thing in
> the world.
>
> Linux makes you think, makes you want to learn more.  Demands more of
> you, forces you to seek the meaning of obscure language and syntax.
>
> Ann P.
> >>>>> "Scott" == Scott B Berry <n7zib@tritel.net> writes:
>
>     Scott> You know it suprises me that he would go linux.  I have
>     Scott> just a bit of experience but I have to say I am really
>     Scott> enjoying it you have so much control but it is a good
>     Scott> learning curve but it keeps the mind active.  Scott Berry
>
> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are
lost."
JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi David,

That's excellent!  But, that is also quite exceptional when compared to the
vast majority of computer users, whether sighted or blind.  Again, the
analogy to the purchase and use of an automobile is appropriate here; some
like to tinker, others just want to use it to get their tasks accomplished
and get on with life.  Those who are interested enough and willing to learn
more about how technology works can certainly gain much from learning and
using Linux, but, as I say, there's a time and place for everything,
including both the Linux and Windows operating systems.

Though I am a Linux sys admin, I am not currently very happy with the
options available for the user-end of things, the client or workstation
aspect of the computing experience.  I thus, unfortunately, use and advocate
the use of Windows on the client side of the house, with Linux on the server
side of the house.  Right or wrong, this approach makes sense to me.

Thanks.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Ihave a non technical spous who loves the command line interface.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:37 PM
> Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
>
>
> Hi Ann,
>
> Keep in mind that Linux is actually not appropriate for most users,
> especially the command-line interface.  Most people want their
> technology to
> be simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the computer works
> or
> anything of that sort.  They just want to use it to get work done!  For
> those non-technical users, Linux is typically inappropriate at this
> stage;
> that is changing, but these are the facts at this time.  And, this is
> coming
> from a Linux sys admin with 2 Linux boxes at home and administrative
> responsibility for numerous FreeBSD and Linux boxes at work.
>
> See, where I work, system admins also handle sales and technical
> support, so
> I am made aware of the non-technical nature of most people who use a
> computer on a daily basis.
>
> Thanks.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:45 AM
> Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Yeh, ain't that interestin'?  Keeps the mind active, yes indeed it
> > do.  It's an active interface instead of a passive one.  It forces the
> > brain to assimilate information and to keep the memory sharp.  You
> > could run Windows if you had Alsheimers, so long as you remembered
> > what the icons meant.  You could just use the arrow keys and work the
> > menus that way if you were blind and using speech, simplist thing in
> > the world.
> >
> > Linux makes you think, makes you want to learn more.  Demands more of
> > you, forces you to seek the meaning of obscure language and syntax.
> >
> > Ann P.
> > >>>>> "Scott" == Scott B Berry <n7zib@tritel.net> writes:
> >
> >     Scott> You know it suprises me that he would go linux.  I have
> >     Scott> just a bit of experience but I have to say I am really
> >     Scott> enjoying it you have so much control but it is a good
> >     Scott> learning curve but it keeps the mind active.  Scott Berry
> >
> > --
> > Ann K. Parsons
> > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are
> lost."
> JRRT
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Why I choose Linux, was Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.  I have a non technical girl friend who had no problem starting to
use my system with gnome.  We've been together for a year.  She just
found console apps more trouble than using a MS-Windows computer.
Finally, I got X-windows working.
I never had to ask her to read a screen until
after I got gnome working. She likes the fact she can change everything
on her desktop to look and act the way she wants.
I install galeon for the default browser.  She loves it!  So far, she
can do any thing on the web she wants.
I still don't have access to the GUI, but that should change soon.  In
the mean time, I can do everything I did with a MS-windows computer with
console apps.  The only thing I don't have working is OCR.
The thing I like about this setup is all the software to do this is
free!  Sure, I spent a lot of time learning about a lot of things to get
it set up, but I have lots of time.

          Kenny

On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 05:46:54PM -0400, David Poehlman wrote:
> Ihave a non technical spous who loves the command line interface.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:37 PM
> Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
> 
> 
> Hi Ann,
> 
> Keep in mind that Linux is actually not appropriate for most users,
> especially the command-line interface.  Most people want their
> technology to
> be simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the computer works
> or
> anything of that sort.  They just want to use it to get work done!  For
> those non-technical users, Linux is typically inappropriate at this
> stage;
> that is changing, but these are the facts at this time.  And, this is
> coming
> from a Linux sys admin with 2 Linux boxes at home and administrative
> responsibility for numerous FreeBSD and Linux boxes at work.
> 
> See, where I work, system admins also handle sales and technical
> support, so
> I am made aware of the non-technical nature of most people who use a
>
computer on a daily basis.

Re: Why I choose Linux, was Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Kenny,

As you said, your non-technical girlfriend is using the Gnome GUI.  That's
little different from using the Windows GUI.

You also said that you had a lot of time on your hands.  That probably
accounts for some of the differences in our perspective on life, and how we
like our computing environment.  I'm a busy sys admin; I work 40+ (usually
plus) hour weeks in a relatively stressful position doing at least systems
administration, sales and technical support.  I don't have a lot of extra
time these days to mess around with stuff...  :-)  Thus, on the client side,
I still use Windows.  Our computers here at home run Windows XP these days;
my system at work still runs Windows Millennium.  It does what I need it to
do, and sometimes better than the Linux equivalent would do the same thing;
this is especially true with browsing.  You'll not convince me, given the
current state of the art, that web browsing under Linux using a completely
text-based browser like Links or Lynx is nearly as straightforward as using
Internet Explorer with JAWS or Window-Eyes.  This is currently also the case
when it comes to working with your sighted colleagues, who tend to run
Windows and run the Microsoft Office applications such as Excel and Word.  I
need to be able to competently read and write these file formats, and as far
as I am aware, this is not currently practical under Linux.  Even if it were
doable by a blind person from the Linux console, it wouldn't be anything as
straightforward as simply running Excel or Word with JAWS.

Again, just my $0.02 on this subject.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenny Hitt" <kennyhitt@knology.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:59 PM
Subject: Why I choose Linux, was Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi.  I have a non technical girl friend who had no problem starting to
> use my system with gnome.  We've been together for a year.  She just
> found console apps more trouble than using a MS-Windows computer.
> Finally, I got X-windows working.
> I never had to ask her to read a screen until
> after I got gnome working. She likes the fact she can change everything
> on her desktop to look and act the way she wants.
> I install galeon for the default browser.  She loves it!  So far, she
> can do any thing on the web she wants.
> I still don't have access to the GUI, but that should change soon.  In
> the mean time, I can do everything I did with a MS-windows computer with
> console apps.  The only thing I don't have working is OCR.
> The thing I like about this setup is all the software to do this is
> free!  Sure, I spent a lot of time learning about a lot of things to get
> it set up, but I have lots of time.
>
>           Kenny
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 05:46:54PM -0400, David Poehlman wrote:
> > Ihave a non technical spous who loves the command line interface.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
> >
> >
> > Hi Ann,
> >
> > Keep in mind that Linux is actually not appropriate for most users,
> > especially the command-line interface.  Most people want their
> > technology to
> > be simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the computer works
> > or
> > anything of that sort.  They just want to use it to get work done!  For
> > those non-technical users, Linux is typically inappropriate at this
> > stage;
> > that is changing, but these are the facts at this time.  And, this is
> > coming
> > from a Linux sys admin with 2 Linux boxes at home and administrative
> > responsibility for numerous FreeBSD and Linux boxes at work.
> >
> > See, where I work, system admins also handle sales and technical
> > support, so
> > I am made aware of the non-technical nature of most people who use a
> >
> computer on a daily basis.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why I choose Linux, was Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Alex Snow]

Why I chose linux, that's because it's free and I can install it on as much
computers as I want without worrying about licensing crap like I'd have to
do with winblows.  The only reason winblows is still here is because I still
haven't got reliable speech on linux and am still looking for a machine to
devote completely to linux.  The only reason winblows will have to stay is
because I need to do ocr and don't know of any ocr for linux.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenny Hitt" <kennyhitt@knology.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 6:59 PM
Subject: Why I choose Linux, was Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi.  I have a non technical girl friend who had no problem starting to
> use my system with gnome.  We've been together for a year.  She just
> found console apps more trouble than using a MS-Windows computer.
> Finally, I got X-windows working.
> I never had to ask her to read a screen until
> after I got gnome working. She likes the fact she can change everything
> on her desktop to look and act the way she wants.
> I install galeon for the default browser.  She loves it!  So far, she
> can do any thing on the web she wants.
> I still don't have access to the GUI, but that should change soon.  In
> the mean time, I can do everything I did with a MS-windows computer with
> console apps.  The only thing I don't have working is OCR.
> The thing I like about this setup is all the software to do this is
> free!  Sure, I spent a lot of time learning about a lot of things to get
> it set up, but I have lots of time.
>
>           Kenny
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 05:46:54PM -0400, David Poehlman wrote:
> > Ihave a non technical spous who loves the command line interface.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
> >
> >
> > Hi Ann,
> >
> > Keep in mind that Linux is actually not appropriate for most users,
> > especially the command-line interface.  Most people want their
> > technology to
> > be simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the computer works
> > or
> > anything of that sort.  They just want to use it to get work done!  For
> > those non-technical users, Linux is typically inappropriate at this
> > stage;
> > that is changing, but these are the facts at this time.  And, this is
> > coming
> > from a Linux sys admin with 2 Linux boxes at home and administrative
> > responsibility for numerous FreeBSD and Linux boxes at work.
> >
> > See, where I work, system admins also handle sales and technical
> > support, so
> > I am made aware of the non-technical nature of most people who use a
> >
> computer on a daily basis.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

No, everything doesn't have to be bashing anyone, but when people
choose paths which are misleading, or when they deliberately confuse
themselves or when they insist on taking everyone else down a wrong
path, then it behooves us to mention that fact.  I would do the same
thing if it were ACB which had done this.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi Darrell,

That's very true, Darrell, but what I'm objecting to is that the
original message in the thread stated that telnet and the BBS features
of their system would no longer be available.  This, I felt was short
changing some of their members, and I thought it was too bad.  I
wanted the techies to be more knowledgeable so that their members
wouldn't have to give up telnet or BBS access.  

<smile>  No, I wasn't suggesting that the end users start using Linux
out of the box, not at all.  What I was hoping to see was some
evidence that they wanted to keep things as accessible as possible and
keep the change-over as seamless as possible, thereby not losing any
of their members.  Apparently, losing membership access is not
important.  I think that is a shame, especially when it is a consumer
based organization.  the offhand "we're sorry if this inconveniences
anyone..." is a callous and a noncaring way to treat people, any
people, and especially those who count on that particular means of
access.  

For some, it may be their only way to talk with others and to learn
about the world outside their own surcomscribed lives.  I think that
the techies who run the machines at that organization would be
astonished at the kinds of people who access their services and if
they knew more about their constituency, they might not take such a
cavalier attitude toward scrapping the telnet and the bbs services.

I don't access their services, but as a netizen of some years, and one
familiar with online communities, I can safely say that this BBS,
whatever it is, is an online community and there are probably members
of that community who need it.  They may not be the vocal members,
they are probably the lurkers in the background who come on, take part
in the community and consider it to be their home.  There may be
others for whom this online community makes the difference between
sanity and not.  

One doesn't destroy a community thoughtlessly with a paragraph or two
couched in pretty phrases, not unless an alternative is offered.  

that is why the topic came up.  That is why I started this discussion.
That is why I wrote to the original poster of the forwarded msg to ask
about SSH to ask about alternatives.  I repeat.  You can not destroy a
community thoughtlessly.

Ann P.
 
sy>>>>> "Darrell" == Darrell Shandrow <nu7i@azboss.net> writes:

    Darrell> Hi Ann, Keep in mind that Linux is actually not
    Darrell> appropriate for most users, especially the command-line
    Darrell> interface.  Most people want their technology to be
    Darrell> simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the
    Darrell> computer works or anything of that sort.  They just want
    Darrell> to use it to get work done!  


-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[David Poehlman]

especially when the leader for their technology goes around talking
about wanting to keep their technology simple and affordable.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


Hi Darrell,

That's very true, Darrell, but what I'm objecting to is that the
original message in the thread stated that telnet and the BBS features
of their system would no longer be available.  This, I felt was short
changing some of their members, and I thought it was too bad.  I
wanted the techies to be more knowledgeable so that their members
wouldn't have to give up telnet or BBS access.

<smile>  No, I wasn't suggesting that the end users start using Linux
out of the box, not at all.  What I was hoping to see was some
evidence that they wanted to keep things as accessible as possible and
keep the change-over as seamless as possible, thereby not losing any
of their members.  Apparently, losing membership access is not
important.  I think that is a shame, especially when it is a consumer
based organization.  the offhand "we're sorry if this inconveniences
anyone..." is a callous and a noncaring way to treat people, any
people, and especially those who count on that particular means of
access.

For some, it may be their only way to talk with others and to learn
about the world outside their own surcomscribed lives.  I think that
the techies who run the machines at that organization would be
astonished at the kinds of people who access their services and if
they knew more about their constituency, they might not take such a
cavalier attitude toward scrapping the telnet and the bbs services.

I don't access their services, but as a netizen of some years, and one
familiar with online communities, I can safely say that this BBS,
whatever it is, is an online community and there are probably members
of that community who need it.  They may not be the vocal members,
they are probably the lurkers in the background who come on, take part
in the community and consider it to be their home.  There may be
others for whom this online community makes the difference between
sanity and not.

One doesn't destroy a community thoughtlessly with a paragraph or two
couched in pretty phrases, not unless an alternative is offered.

that is why the topic came up.  That is why I started this discussion.
That is why I wrote to the original poster of the forwarded msg to ask
about SSH to ask about alternatives.  I repeat.  You can not destroy a
community thoughtlessly.

Ann P.

sy>>>>> "Darrell" == Darrell Shandrow <nu7i@azboss.net> writes:

    Darrell> Hi Ann, Keep in mind that Linux is actually not
    Darrell> appropriate for most users, especially the command-line
    Darrell> interface.  Most people want their technology to be
    Darrell> simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the
    Darrell> computer works or anything of that sort.  They just want
    Darrell> to use it to get work done!


--
Ann K. Parsons
email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Ann,

Good deal then.  We can agree on these points, and, yes, shame on NFB for
just suddenly getting RID of the NFB Net BBS.  I know they have been
experiencing some technical issues lately with their DSL connection and
such, but as far as I am aware, those were not systems related issues.  But,
then, I could have been missing something...

I am not totally surprised that NFB didn't tap their membership to find
people who had lots of Linux experience to determine a way to keep all
services.  Oh, well, then again, maybe they did, but they tapped the wrong
people.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi Darrell,
>
> That's very true, Darrell, but what I'm objecting to is that the
> original message in the thread stated that telnet and the BBS features
> of their system would no longer be available.  This, I felt was short
> changing some of their members, and I thought it was too bad.  I
> wanted the techies to be more knowledgeable so that their members
> wouldn't have to give up telnet or BBS access.
>
> <smile>  No, I wasn't suggesting that the end users start using Linux
> out of the box, not at all.  What I was hoping to see was some
> evidence that they wanted to keep things as accessible as possible and
> keep the change-over as seamless as possible, thereby not losing any
> of their members.  Apparently, losing membership access is not
> important.  I think that is a shame, especially when it is a consumer
> based organization.  the offhand "we're sorry if this inconveniences
> anyone..." is a callous and a noncaring way to treat people, any
> people, and especially those who count on that particular means of
> access.
>
> For some, it may be their only way to talk with others and to learn
> about the world outside their own surcomscribed lives.  I think that
> the techies who run the machines at that organization would be
> astonished at the kinds of people who access their services and if
> they knew more about their constituency, they might not take such a
> cavalier attitude toward scrapping the telnet and the bbs services.
>
> I don't access their services, but as a netizen of some years, and one
> familiar with online communities, I can safely say that this BBS,
> whatever it is, is an online community and there are probably members
> of that community who need it.  They may not be the vocal members,
> they are probably the lurkers in the background who come on, take part
> in the community and consider it to be their home.  There may be
> others for whom this online community makes the difference between
> sanity and not.
>
> One doesn't destroy a community thoughtlessly with a paragraph or two
> couched in pretty phrases, not unless an alternative is offered.
>
> that is why the topic came up.  That is why I started this discussion.
> That is why I wrote to the original poster of the forwarded msg to ask
> about SSH to ask about alternatives.  I repeat.  You can not destroy a
> community thoughtlessly.
>
> Ann P.
>
> sy>>>>> "Darrell" == Darrell Shandrow <nu7i@azboss.net> writes:
>
>     Darrell> Hi Ann, Keep in mind that Linux is actually not
>     Darrell> appropriate for most users, especially the command-line
>     Darrell> interface.  Most people want their technology to be
>     Darrell> simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the
>     Darrell> computer works or anything of that sort.  They just want
>     Darrell> to use it to get work done!
>
>
> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Steve Holmes]

You may well be right.  I personally think it more appropriate to
compare sources: Microsoft and other proprietary providers vs the free
software movement and open source initiative.  One point I do make
about GUI users vs commandline types is that A good computer expert
will know both methods - especially system/network administrators.  An
end user would probably be content with GUI and quick navigation; hey,
I don't mind quick file navigation but command line scripting is
infinitely faster.

I once saw a message on another list talking about the favorite
software and what to start up first.  He said that X was the first and
practically the only app he'd run.  I couldn't disagree more; even if
I could use X.  I'm sure there's command line stuff out there that
doesn't exist for X.  But there's probably lots of stuff that runs
under X but no command line available - so there you go.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 03:45:00PM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> You know folks I've been reading all the various threads about Linux vs
> windows etc. How one makes you think over the other etc. I think again
> your comparing apples and oranges. Both are fruits, but otherwise, I
> think the similarities come to a quick end.
> The differences you are comparing are between the console or shell to a
> gui. Yes a shell forces you to type commands that a gui interface does
> not, but does that make one user better than another? No absolutely not.
> Not only do folks learn and understand the same thing differently, folks
> might just as well differ on their preference of interface.
> Do I think windows of any form compares in performance or quality to
> Linux? No way, but then we're taling os functionality and performance not
> user ability.
> Ay face the facts folks that most people are not interested in how that
> command is executed, but instead on how to accomplish the task as quickly
> as possible. Does that make them less a person? If you think so, your a
> sad case for sure. You then fail to recognize the differences in those
> around you. They all don't have to use a computer as you. Some of us are
> interested in what makes it tick and others are only interested in if it
> works. I think that is perfectly fine.
> To bring this entire thing into perspective, lets apply this line of
> thinking. If you bought a car and yeah a bad line of thought, but follow
> it with me. You buy this car, you likely first are concerned only with
> the features and its performance in getting you where you want to go.
> Then you have others who are not just concerned with this, but are also
> concerned with how to get more out of it, modifying it, and so on.
> Just remember also that if you continue to beat down windows users, your
> making a clear statement to those folks who just might be willing to try
> Linux and you'll be scaring them off.
> Besides, if your going to rag on windows users, you'd best add in the
> users of Gnome etc. They are using a gui as well.
> 
> Off my soapbox.
> 
> tnx
> 
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Bear in SFO]

Let me assure you, ACB have no clue what they are doing with their linux 
box either - at least when I call them and ask about their server, the 
answer I got was "well, it just sits here"

--David

At 08:19 PM 9/21/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi Darrell,
>
>That's very true, Darrell, but what I'm objecting to is that the
>original message in the thread stated that telnet and the BBS features
>of their system would no longer be available.  This, I felt was short
>changing some of their members, and I thought it was too bad.  I
>wanted the techies to be more knowledgeable so that their members
>wouldn't have to give up telnet or BBS access.
>
><smile>  No, I wasn't suggesting that the end users start using Linux
>out of the box, not at all.  What I was hoping to see was some
>evidence that they wanted to keep things as accessible as possible and
>keep the change-over as seamless as possible, thereby not losing any
>of their members.  Apparently, losing membership access is not
>important.  I think that is a shame, especially when it is a consumer
>based organization.  the offhand "we're sorry if this inconveniences
>anyone..." is a callous and a noncaring way to treat people, any
>people, and especially those who count on that particular means of
>access.
>
>For some, it may be their only way to talk with others and to learn
>about the world outside their own surcomscribed lives.  I think that
>the techies who run the machines at that organization would be
>astonished at the kinds of people who access their services and if
>they knew more about their constituency, they might not take such a
>cavalier attitude toward scrapping the telnet and the bbs services.
>
>I don't access their services, but as a netizen of some years, and one
>familiar with online communities, I can safely say that this BBS,
>whatever it is, is an online community and there are probably members
>of that community who need it.  They may not be the vocal members,
>they are probably the lurkers in the background who come on, take part
>in the community and consider it to be their home.  There may be
>others for whom this online community makes the difference between
>sanity and not.
>
>One doesn't destroy a community thoughtlessly with a paragraph or two
>couched in pretty phrases, not unless an alternative is offered.
>
>that is why the topic came up.  That is why I started this discussion.
>That is why I wrote to the original poster of the forwarded msg to ask
>about SSH to ask about alternatives.  I repeat.  You can not destroy a
>community thoughtlessly.
>
>Ann P.
>
>sy>>>>> "Darrell" == Darrell Shandrow <nu7i@azboss.net> writes:
>
>     Darrell> Hi Ann, Keep in mind that Linux is actually not
>     Darrell> appropriate for most users, especially the command-line
>     Darrell> interface.  Most people want their technology to be
>     Darrell> simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the
>     Darrell> computer works or anything of that sort.  They just want
>     Darrell> to use it to get work done!
>
>
>--
>                         Ann K. Parsons
>email:  akp@eznet.net                   ICQ Number:  33006854
>WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
>"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why I choose Linux, was Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Bear in SFO]

Why I chose Linux:  I can never get JAWS to read me ANYTHING in X-Windows 
or the DOS command prompt when it is run inside MS Windows.  All my sighted 
co-workers use X to run admin tools on their UNIX boxes, so I run 
Speakup.  It's quicker, I am more 'in control' of what I am doing, and the 
most important of all, I CAN DO THE JOB I CAN'T DO IN MICRO$OFT WINDOWS!!!

--David

At 07:34 PM 9/21/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Why I chose linux, that's because it's free and I can install it on as much
>computers as I want without worrying about licensing crap like I'd have to
>do with winblows.  The only reason winblows is still here is because I still
>haven't got reliable speech on linux and am still looking for a machine to
>devote completely to linux.  The only reason winblows will have to stay is
>because I need to do ocr and don't know of any ocr for linux.
>Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
>sick of Winblows!
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kenny Hitt" <kennyhitt@knology.net>
>To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 6:59 PM
>Subject: Why I choose Linux, was Re: NFB Net goes linux!
>
>
> > Hi.  I have a non technical girl friend who had no problem starting to
> > use my system with gnome.  We've been together for a year.  She just
> > found console apps more trouble than using a MS-Windows computer.
> > Finally, I got X-windows working.
> > I never had to ask her to read a screen until
> > after I got gnome working. She likes the fact she can change everything
> > on her desktop to look and act the way she wants.
> > I install galeon for the default browser.  She loves it!  So far, she
> > can do any thing on the web she wants.
> > I still don't have access to the GUI, but that should change soon.  In
> > the mean time, I can do everything I did with a MS-windows computer with
> > console apps.  The only thing I don't have working is OCR.
> > The thing I like about this setup is all the software to do this is
> > free!  Sure, I spent a lot of time learning about a lot of things to get
> > it set up, but I have lots of time.
> >
> >           Kenny
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 05:46:54PM -0400, David Poehlman wrote:
> > > Ihave a non technical spous who loves the command line interface.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ann,
> > >
> > > Keep in mind that Linux is actually not appropriate for most users,
> > > especially the command-line interface.  Most people want their
> > > technology to
> > > be simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the computer works
> > > or
> > > anything of that sort.  They just want to use it to get work done!  For
> > > those non-technical users, Linux is typically inappropriate at this
> > > stage;
> > > that is changing, but these are the facts at this time.  And, this is
> > > coming
> > > from a Linux sys admin with 2 Linux boxes at home and administrative
> > > responsibility for numerous FreeBSD and Linux boxes at work.
> > >
> > > See, where I work, system admins also handle sales and technical
> > > support, so
> > > I am made aware of the non-technical nature of most people who use a
> > >
> > computer on a daily basis.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[David Poehlman]

you have not spoken to the right people.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bear in SFO" <BearSFO@PacBell.NET>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!



Let me assure you, ACB have no clue what they are doing with their linux
box either - at least when I call them and ask about their server, the
answer I got was "well, it just sits here"

--David

At 08:19 PM 9/21/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi Darrell,
>
>That's very true, Darrell, but what I'm objecting to is that the
>original message in the thread stated that telnet and the BBS features
>of their system would no longer be available.  This, I felt was short
>changing some of their members, and I thought it was too bad.  I
>wanted the techies to be more knowledgeable so that their members
>wouldn't have to give up telnet or BBS access.
>
><smile>  No, I wasn't suggesting that the end users start using Linux
>out of the box, not at all.  What I was hoping to see was some
>evidence that they wanted to keep things as accessible as possible and
>keep the change-over as seamless as possible, thereby not losing any
>of their members.  Apparently, losing membership access is not
>important.  I think that is a shame, especially when it is a consumer
>based organization.  the offhand "we're sorry if this inconveniences
>anyone..." is a callous and a noncaring way to treat people, any
>people, and especially those who count on that particular means of
>access.
>
>For some, it may be their only way to talk with others and to learn
>about the world outside their own surcomscribed lives.  I think that
>the techies who run the machines at that organization would be
>astonished at the kinds of people who access their services and if
>they knew more about their constituency, they might not take such a
>cavalier attitude toward scrapping the telnet and the bbs services.
>
>I don't access their services, but as a netizen of some years, and one
>familiar with online communities, I can safely say that this BBS,
>whatever it is, is an online community and there are probably members
>of that community who need it.  They may not be the vocal members,
>they are probably the lurkers in the background who come on, take part
>in the community and consider it to be their home.  There may be
>others for whom this online community makes the difference between
>sanity and not.
>
>One doesn't destroy a community thoughtlessly with a paragraph or two
>couched in pretty phrases, not unless an alternative is offered.
>
>that is why the topic came up.  That is why I started this discussion.
>That is why I wrote to the original poster of the forwarded msg to ask
>about SSH to ask about alternatives.  I repeat.  You can not destroy a
>community thoughtlessly.
>
>Ann P.
>
>sy>>>>> "Darrell" == Darrell Shandrow <nu7i@azboss.net> writes:
>
>     Darrell> Hi Ann, Keep in mind that Linux is actually not
>     Darrell> appropriate for most users, especially the command-line
>     Darrell> interface.  Most people want their technology to be
>     Darrell> simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the
>     Darrell> computer works or anything of that sort.  They just want
>     Darrell> to use it to get work done!
>
>
>--
>                         Ann K. Parsons
>email:  akp@eznet.net                   ICQ Number:  33006854
>WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
>"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are
lost."  JRRT
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Oh, I think ACB has the competent help they need to run their Linux
server.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Scott Howell]

Steve,
That was my point exactly and the other point is not everyone wants to be
an expert. I of course will jump for joy when there's a Linux distro that
once the cd is installed, a "non-technical" person could perform any task
they can under windows, upgrade software and even possibly kernels with
about as much fuss as someone upgrades their windows box. Do I think this
could be done and still maintain security and high quality software? Oh
yes, I do believe this and its only a matter of time.
Guis are not evil also was my other point. I have to say that selectively
selecting files with a gui for moving or whatever operation is very
handy.


On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 08:34:00PM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> You may well be right.  I personally think it more appropriate to
> compare sources: Microsoft and other proprietary providers vs the free
> software movement and open source initiative.  One point I do make
> about GUI users vs commandline types is that A good computer expert
> will know both methods - especially system/network administrators.  An
> end user would probably be content with GUI and quick navigation; hey,
> I don't mind quick file navigation but command line scripting is
> infinitely faster.

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Janina Sajka]

Kenny Hitt writes:
> console apps.  The only thing I don't have working is OCR.

Have you tried scanimage and gocr? It's not the thoroughly packaged interface, but it meets my needs usually.

Re: Why I choose Linux, was Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Janina Sajka]

First you say you don't have time to learn how to do things in Linux, then you tell us several opinions you hold about
how Linux is inferior. To top it off, you tell us you can't be convinced otherwise.

May I suggest this is both illogical and rather offensive? If you don't have time, fine. Leave it at that. You don't
have time, so how could you know? You don't know, yet you presume to say that which you dpon't know.


Darrell Shandrow writes:
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> 
> Hi Kenny,
> 
> As you said, your non-technical girlfriend is using the Gnome GUI.  That's
> little different from using the Windows GUI.
> 
> You also said that you had a lot of time on your hands.  That probably
> accounts for some of the differences in our perspective on life, and how we
> like our computing environment.  I'm a busy sys admin; I work 40+ (usually
> plus) hour weeks in a relatively stressful position doing at least systems
> administration, sales and technical support.  I don't have a lot of extra
> time these days to mess around with stuff...  :-)  Thus, on the client side,
> I still use Windows.  Our computers here at home run Windows XP these days;
> my system at work still runs Windows Millennium.  It does what I need it to
> do, and sometimes better than the Linux equivalent would do the same thing;
> this is especially true with browsing.  You'll not convince me, given the
> current state of the art, that web browsing under Linux using a completely
> text-based browser like Links or Lynx is nearly as straightforward as using
> Internet Explorer with JAWS or Window-Eyes.  This is currently also the case
> when it comes to working with your sighted colleagues, who tend to run
> Windows and run the Microsoft Office applications such as Excel and Word.  I
> need to be able to competently read and write these file formats, and as far
> as I am aware, this is not currently practical under Linux.  Even if it were
> doable by a blind person from the Linux console, it wouldn't be anything as
> straightforward as simply running Excel or Word with JAWS.
> 
> Again, just my $0.02 on this subject.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kenny Hitt" <kennyhitt@knology.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:59 PM
> Subject: Why I choose Linux, was Re: NFB Net goes linux!
> 
> 
> > Hi.  I have a non technical girl friend who had no problem starting to
> > use my system with gnome.  We've been together for a year.  She just
> > found console apps more trouble than using a MS-Windows computer.
> > Finally, I got X-windows working.
> > I never had to ask her to read a screen until
> > after I got gnome working. She likes the fact she can change everything
> > on her desktop to look and act the way she wants.
> > I install galeon for the default browser.  She loves it!  So far, she
> > can do any thing on the web she wants.
> > I still don't have access to the GUI, but that should change soon.  In
> > the mean time, I can do everything I did with a MS-windows computer with
> > console apps.  The only thing I don't have working is OCR.
> > The thing I like about this setup is all the software to do this is
> > free!  Sure, I spent a lot of time learning about a lot of things to get
> > it set up, but I have lots of time.
> >
> >           Kenny
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 05:46:54PM -0400, David Poehlman wrote:
> > > Ihave a non technical spous who loves the command line interface.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ann,
> > >
> > > Keep in mind that Linux is actually not appropriate for most users,
> > > especially the command-line interface.  Most people want their
> > > technology to
> > > be simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the computer works
> > > or
> > > anything of that sort.  They just want to use it to get work done!  For
> > > those non-technical users, Linux is typically inappropriate at this
> > > stage;
> > > that is changing, but these are the facts at this time.  And, this is
> > > coming
> > > from a Linux sys admin with 2 Linux boxes at home and administrative
> > > responsibility for numerous FreeBSD and Linux boxes at work.
> > >
> > > See, where I work, system admins also handle sales and technical
> > > support, so
> > > I am made aware of the non-technical nature of most people who use a
> > >
> > computer on a daily basis.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Gregory Nowak]

Knowing that the packages you mentioned exist is one thing. Having kernel modules that support the scanner you currently own is another.
Greg


On Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 11:05:55AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Kenny Hitt writes:
> > console apps.  The only thing I don't have working is OCR.
> 
> Have you tried scanimage and gocr? It's not the thoroughly packaged interface, but it meets my needs usually.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Bear in SFO]

Do you know who I should talk to?

At 06:42 AM 9/22/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>you have not spoken to the right people.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bear in SFO" <BearSFO@PacBell.NET>
>To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 12:33 AM
>Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
>
>
>
>Let me assure you, ACB have no clue what they are doing with their linux
>box either - at least when I call them and ask about their server, the
>answer I got was "well, it just sits here"
>
>--David
>
>At 08:19 PM 9/21/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >Hi Darrell,
> >
> >That's very true, Darrell, but what I'm objecting to is that the
> >original message in the thread stated that telnet and the BBS features
> >of their system would no longer be available.  This, I felt was short
> >changing some of their members, and I thought it was too bad.  I
> >wanted the techies to be more knowledgeable so that their members
> >wouldn't have to give up telnet or BBS access.
> >
> ><smile>  No, I wasn't suggesting that the end users start using Linux
> >out of the box, not at all.  What I was hoping to see was some
> >evidence that they wanted to keep things as accessible as possible and
> >keep the change-over as seamless as possible, thereby not losing any
> >of their members.  Apparently, losing membership access is not
> >important.  I think that is a shame, especially when it is a consumer
> >based organization.  the offhand "we're sorry if this inconveniences
> >anyone..." is a callous and a noncaring way to treat people, any
> >people, and especially those who count on that particular means of
> >access.
> >
> >For some, it may be their only way to talk with others and to learn
> >about the world outside their own surcomscribed lives.  I think that
> >the techies who run the machines at that organization would be
> >astonished at the kinds of people who access their services and if
> >they knew more about their constituency, they might not take such a
> >cavalier attitude toward scrapping the telnet and the bbs services.
> >
> >I don't access their services, but as a netizen of some years, and one
> >familiar with online communities, I can safely say that this BBS,
> >whatever it is, is an online community and there are probably members
> >of that community who need it.  They may not be the vocal members,
> >they are probably the lurkers in the background who come on, take part
> >in the community and consider it to be their home.  There may be
> >others for whom this online community makes the difference between
> >sanity and not.
> >
> >One doesn't destroy a community thoughtlessly with a paragraph or two
> >couched in pretty phrases, not unless an alternative is offered.
> >
> >that is why the topic came up.  That is why I started this discussion.
> >That is why I wrote to the original poster of the forwarded msg to ask
> >about SSH to ask about alternatives.  I repeat.  You can not destroy a
> >community thoughtlessly.
> >
> >Ann P.
> >
> >sy>>>>> "Darrell" == Darrell Shandrow <nu7i@azboss.net> writes:
> >
> >     Darrell> Hi Ann, Keep in mind that Linux is actually not
> >     Darrell> appropriate for most users, especially the command-line
> >     Darrell> interface.  Most people want their technology to be
> >     Darrell> simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the
> >     Darrell> computer works or anything of that sort.  They just want
> >     Darrell> to use it to get work done!
> >
> >
> >--
> >                         Ann K. Parsons
> >email:  akp@eznet.net                   ICQ Number:  33006854
> >WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> >"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are
>lost."  JRRT
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi,

Yes; certainly.  When you call any business or organization requesting
information about their technology, ask for someone in their information
technology (IT) department.  That should get you some results.

Thanks.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bear in SFO" <BearSFO@PacBell.NET>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


>
> Do you know who I should talk to?
>
> At 06:42 AM 9/22/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >you have not spoken to the right people.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bear in SFO" <BearSFO@PacBell.NET>
> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 12:33 AM
> >Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
> >
> >
> >
> >Let me assure you, ACB have no clue what they are doing with their linux
> >box either - at least when I call them and ask about their server, the
> >answer I got was "well, it just sits here"
> >
> >--David
> >
> >At 08:19 PM 9/21/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Hi Darrell,
> > >
> > >That's very true, Darrell, but what I'm objecting to is that the
> > >original message in the thread stated that telnet and the BBS features
> > >of their system would no longer be available.  This, I felt was short
> > >changing some of their members, and I thought it was too bad.  I
> > >wanted the techies to be more knowledgeable so that their members
> > >wouldn't have to give up telnet or BBS access.
> > >
> > ><smile>  No, I wasn't suggesting that the end users start using Linux
> > >out of the box, not at all.  What I was hoping to see was some
> > >evidence that they wanted to keep things as accessible as possible and
> > >keep the change-over as seamless as possible, thereby not losing any
> > >of their members.  Apparently, losing membership access is not
> > >important.  I think that is a shame, especially when it is a consumer
> > >based organization.  the offhand "we're sorry if this inconveniences
> > >anyone..." is a callous and a noncaring way to treat people, any
> > >people, and especially those who count on that particular means of
> > >access.
> > >
> > >For some, it may be their only way to talk with others and to learn
> > >about the world outside their own surcomscribed lives.  I think that
> > >the techies who run the machines at that organization would be
> > >astonished at the kinds of people who access their services and if
> > >they knew more about their constituency, they might not take such a
> > >cavalier attitude toward scrapping the telnet and the bbs services.
> > >
> > >I don't access their services, but as a netizen of some years, and one
> > >familiar with online communities, I can safely say that this BBS,
> > >whatever it is, is an online community and there are probably members
> > >of that community who need it.  They may not be the vocal members,
> > >they are probably the lurkers in the background who come on, take part
> > >in the community and consider it to be their home.  There may be
> > >others for whom this online community makes the difference between
> > >sanity and not.
> > >
> > >One doesn't destroy a community thoughtlessly with a paragraph or two
> > >couched in pretty phrases, not unless an alternative is offered.
> > >
> > >that is why the topic came up.  That is why I started this discussion.
> > >That is why I wrote to the original poster of the forwarded msg to ask
> > >about SSH to ask about alternatives.  I repeat.  You can not destroy a
> > >community thoughtlessly.
> > >
> > >Ann P.
> > >
> > >sy>>>>> "Darrell" == Darrell Shandrow <nu7i@azboss.net> writes:
> > >
> > >     Darrell> Hi Ann, Keep in mind that Linux is actually not
> > >     Darrell> appropriate for most users, especially the command-line
> > >     Darrell> interface.  Most people want their technology to be
> > >     Darrell> simple to operate.  They're not interested in how the
> > >     Darrell> computer works or anything of that sort.  They just want
> > >     Darrell> to use it to get work done!
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >                         Ann K. Parsons
> > >email:  akp@eznet.net                   ICQ Number:  33006854
> > >WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > >"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are
> >lost."  JRRT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Speakup mailing list
> > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Janina Sajka]

True, but it's not as if a scanner is an expensive accessory anymore.

Gregory Nowak writes:
> From: Gregory Nowak <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
> 
> Knowing that the packages you mentioned exist is one thing. Having kernel modules that support the scanner you currently own is another.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 11:05:55AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Kenny Hitt writes:
> > > console apps.  The only thing I don't have working is OCR.
> > 
> > Have you tried scanimage and gocr? It's not the thoroughly packaged interface, but it meets my needs usually.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Gregory Nowak]

When I baught my current scanner, it cost me $120. For me, that isn't small change.

Greg


On Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 04:11:52PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> True, but it's not as if a scanner is an expensive accessory anymore.
> 

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Adam Myrow]

I'd really like to know how you get anything useful out of Gocr.  Every
time I've tried to use it, I've gotten mostly gibberish with maybe a few
words intact.  Even a perfectly clean printout from an ink-jet printer
will return mostly blank characters under Linux while being recognized
fairly well under Windows.  So, any tips to improve Gocr's performance?

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Scott Howell]

Ok, please lets not get on this topic of what is expensive and is not and
to who what expensive means. I paid $400 for the scanner I own now and to
me it was expensive, but it'll do what I want and worked with my Linux
box. Well it should once I finish getting things configured, but the
point is scanners are pretty inexpensive and Linux has more support now
then previously.
Got check out http://www.computergeeks.com for some really good deals on
scanners. However, rtfm on what scanners are supported first.
Me, I personally bought a scanner that would do both scsi and usb cause I
wanted it to work now not later. Of course this was about 2 years ago
when I first started trying to get the thing working with Linux. Today I
finally got around to trying scanimage and gocr; thanks Janina for
mentioning them.
If you really need ocr ability, then use what you must to get the job
done. If you can get it working under Linux, that's great!! I for one
choose to sit on my pricy device till I got it working under Linux. Yeah,
I'm slow to getting on something.:)


On Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 03:21:17PM -0500, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> When I baught my current scanner, it cost me $120. For me, that isn't small change.
> 
> Greg

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Janina Sajka]

No great tips here. It's why I qualified my original post with something like "usually does what I need." I weigh the lesser performance against the
hassle of rebooting just to scan a page or two. Usually, dealing with gocr wins.


Adam Myrow writes:
> From: Adam Myrow <myrow@eskimo.com>
> 
> I'd really like to know how you get anything useful out of Gocr.  Every
> time I've tried to use it, I've gotten mostly gibberish with maybe a few
> words intact.  Even a perfectly clean printout from an ink-jet printer
> will return mostly blank characters under Linux while being recognized
> fairly well under Windows.  So, any tips to improve Gocr's performance?
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Raul A. Gallegos]

I certainly was not tapped.  At least, I know telnet is insecure but if
people need it there are ways of doing things to keep telnet as little
insecure as possible.

--
If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can
go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi Ann,
>
> Good deal then.  We can agree on these points, and, yes, shame on NFB for
> just suddenly getting RID of the NFB Net BBS.  I know they have been
> experiencing some technical issues lately with their DSL connection and
> such, but as far as I am aware, those were not systems related issues.
But,
> then, I could have been missing something...
>
> I am not totally surprised that NFB didn't tap their membership to find
> people who had lots of Linux experience to determine a way to keep all
> services.  Oh, well, then again, maybe they did, but they tapped the wrong
> people.
>
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Alex Snow]

David Andrews I think it is.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> Hi all,
>
> Talk to the techies who know what's going on like Matt Campbell or
> the other David whose name escapes me at the moment.
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Talk to the techies who know what's going on like Matt Campbell or
the other David whose name escapes me at the moment.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Scott B. Berry]

You are absolutely correct.  It is David Andrews.


Scott Berry
Msn: electronicman1960@hotmail.com
Yahoo Messenger: electronicman1960
If you are interested in scanning and you are blind please come join our
police scanner list.  To subscribe send a message to:
mailto:blindscanner-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow@gmx.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!


> David Andrews I think it is.
> Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
> sick of Winblows!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 4:30 PM
> Subject: Re: NFB Net goes linux!
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Talk to the techies who know what's going on like Matt Campbell or
> > the other David whose name escapes me at the moment.
> >
> > Ann P.
> >
> > --
> > Ann K. Parsons
> > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
> JRRT
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

No, no, Andrews is the NFB guy this is the other David.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: NFB Net goes linux!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

The ACB guy is David Poehlman, not Andrews.  Andrews is the NFB guy.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Zinf command line

[ccrawford]

	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this 
message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I 
run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command 
line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what 
circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible 
of Linux and we get none.

-- charlie Crawford.

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Kenny Hitt]

On Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 11:05:55AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Kenny Hitt writes:
> > console apps.  The only thing I don't have working is OCR.
> 
> Have you tried scanimage and gocr? It's not the thoroughly packaged interface, but it meets my needs usually.
>
No, not yet.  I mostly used my scanner to read the user guides for
windows programs.  Now that I use Linux, I don't need to scan manuals.

          Kenny

Re: Zinf command line

[Steve Holmes]

Well we have two choices as I see it.  
zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
or
zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...

The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.

BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
dispite the website's claims?

On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this 
> message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I 
> run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command 
> line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what 
> circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible 
> of Linux and we get none.
> 
> -- charlie Crawford.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Zinf command line

[Steve Holmes]

Sorry, that should be 'zinfcmd' not zcmd as I stated in my last message.

On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:36:47AM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> Well we have two choices as I see it.  
> zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
> or
> zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...
> 
> The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
> title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
> stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
> info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
> intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.
> 
> BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
> another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
> dispite the website's claims?
> 
> On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this 
> > message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I 
> > run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command 
> > line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what 
> > circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible 
> > of Linux and we get none.
> > 
> > -- charlie Crawford.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Zinf command line

[ccrawford]

Still get the same error message about no plugin at....

-- charlie On Tue, 24 Sep 
2002, Steve Holmes wrote:

> Well we have two choices as I see it.  
> zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
> or
> zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...
> 
> The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
> title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
> stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
> info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
> intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.
> 
> BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
> another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
> dispite the website's claims?
> 
> On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this 
> > message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I 
> > run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command 
> > line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what 
> > circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible 
> > of Linux and we get none.
> > 
> > -- charlie Crawford.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

Re: Zinf command line

[ccrawford]

Hi!

	Sorry, but used zinf -ui zinfcmd *.mp3 and same result about no 
plugin available 

-- charlie.


On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:

> Sorry, that should be 'zinfcmd' not zcmd as I stated in my last message.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:36:47AM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > Well we have two choices as I see it.  
> > zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
> > or
> > zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...
> > 
> > The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
> > title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
> > stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
> > info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
> > intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.
> > 
> > BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
> > another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
> > dispite the website's claims?
> > 
> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > > 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this 
> > > message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I 
> > > run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command 
> > > line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what 
> > > circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible 
> > > of Linux and we get none.
> > > 
> > > -- charlie Crawford.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > -- 
> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> >    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

Re: Zinf command line

[Steve Holmes]

Damn!

How did you install zinf?  Did you do the ./configure / make / make
install route or did you get a precompiled package?

It looks for plugins in /usr/local/lib/zinf/plugins for zinfcmd.ui or
ncurses.ui.  I couldn't get it to work by simply running the binary
out of the source directory.

On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 03:21:17PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> 	Sorry, but used zinf -ui zinfcmd *.mp3 and same result about no 
> plugin available 
> 
> -- charlie.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> 
> > Sorry, that should be 'zinfcmd' not zcmd as I stated in my last message.
> > 
> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:36:47AM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > > Well we have two choices as I see it.  
> > > zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
> > > or
> > > zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...
> > > 
> > > The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
> > > title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
> > > stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
> > > info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
> > > intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.
> > > 
> > > BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
> > > another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
> > > dispite the website's claims?
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > > > 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this 
> > > > message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I 
> > > > run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command 
> > > > line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what 
> > > > circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible 
> > > > of Linux and we get none.
> > > > 
> > > > -- charlie Crawford.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > >    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Zinf command line

[Deedra Waters]

Ok, I'll give my feedback on zinf. I don't know about any others, but this
is my experience with zinf and debian.to run zinf with command line just
do 'zinf -ui zinfcmd' or 'zinf -ui ncurses'

The thing is this. if you can even get it going, there is no sound.
apparrently zinf doesn't read the config file, and resets the default
volume to 0 so that  it plays, but you don't hear anything. I'm not sure
how to fix this or change it. I'm tempted to compile zinf from source if
that's even possible, and see if I can get it to do  anything for me. at
this point, I call zinf useable, but only if you use a gui.



webpage http://www.dmwaters.org

Check out wopn freenode radio!
http://www.wopn.org

 Was I helpful?  Let others know:
     http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=dmwaters


On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 ccrawford@acb.org wrote:

> Still get the same error message about no plugin at....
>
> -- charlie On Tue, 24 Sep
> 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
>
> > Well we have two choices as I see it.
> > zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
> > or
> > zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...
> >
> > The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
> > title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
> > stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
> > info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
> > intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.
> >
> > BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
> > another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
> > dispite the website's claims?
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > > 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this
> > > message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I
> > > run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command
> > > line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what
> > > circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible
> > > of Linux and we get none.
> > >
> > > -- charlie Crawford.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Zinf command line

[ccrawford]

Steve,

	I downloaded and ran the rpm.  Then it wanted another rpm which 
I went and got, but I don't wsee the zinf.ui or zinfcmd.ui in the 
/usr/lib/zinf/plugins directory.

	Maybe I need to find those files somewhere?

-- charlie.

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, 
Steve Holmes wrote:

> Damn!
> 
> How did you install zinf?  Did you do the ./configure / make / make
> install route or did you get a precompiled package?
> 
> It looks for plugins in /usr/local/lib/zinf/plugins for zinfcmd.ui or
> ncurses.ui.  I couldn't get it to work by simply running the binary
> out of the source directory.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 03:21:17PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > 	Sorry, but used zinf -ui zinfcmd *.mp3 and same result about no 
> > plugin available 
> > 
> > -- charlie.
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > 
> > > Sorry, that should be 'zinfcmd' not zcmd as I stated in my last message.
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:36:47AM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > > > Well we have two choices as I see it.  
> > > > zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
> > > > or
> > > > zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...
> > > > 
> > > > The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
> > > > title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
> > > > stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
> > > > info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
> > > > intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.
> > > > 
> > > > BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
> > > > another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
> > > > dispite the website's claims?
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > > > > 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this 
> > > > > message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I 
> > > > > run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command 
> > > > > line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what 
> > > > > circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible 
> > > > > of Linux and we get none.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -- charlie Crawford.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > > >    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

Re: Zinf command line

[ccrawford]

	Well, perhaps I will find a copy of freeamp and see if I can do 
it that way.

-- charlie.
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Deedra Waters wrote:

> Ok, I'll give my feedback on zinf. I don't know about any others, but this
> is my experience with zinf and debian.to run zinf with command line just
> do 'zinf -ui zinfcmd' or 'zinf -ui ncurses'
> 
> The thing is this. if you can even get it going, there is no sound.
> apparrently zinf doesn't read the config file, and resets the default
> volume to 0 so that  it plays, but you don't hear anything. I'm not sure
> how to fix this or change it. I'm tempted to compile zinf from source if
> that's even possible, and see if I can get it to do  anything for me. at
> this point, I call zinf useable, but only if you use a gui.
> 
> 
> 
> webpage http://www.dmwaters.org
> 
> Check out wopn freenode radio!
> http://www.wopn.org
> 
>  Was I helpful?  Let others know:
>      http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=dmwaters
> 
> 
> On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> 
> > Still get the same error message about no plugin at....
> >
> > -- charlie On Tue, 24 Sep
> > 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> >
> > > Well we have two choices as I see it.
> > > zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
> > > or
> > > zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...
> > >
> > > The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
> > > title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
> > > stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
> > > info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
> > > intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.
> > >
> > > BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
> > > another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
> > > dispite the website's claims?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > > > 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this
> > > > message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I
> > > > run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command
> > > > line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what
> > > > circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible
> > > > of Linux and we get none.
> > > >
> > > > -- charlie Crawford.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Zinf command line

[Steve Holmes]

I will answer both Deedra and Charlie on this one.  I got the source
(v2.2.0) from www.zinf.org and compiled it.  I also had to download
musizbrainz and compiled/installed it as well.  www.zinf.org has a
link to musicbrainz for our convenience.  After installing zinf with
one little hassle, I can play mp3's and ogg 1.0 files with no
problem.  The one hassle I had was it requiring some /share/gnome or
something.  I just created those folders from the install error and
ran the install again til it worked.  I think there is a bug in the
make install and plan to show it to the developers if it is worth my
time:).

It's a neet program but I wish I could use some more of its features
like CD's, and auto playlist management.  Sure helps to have some
docs, even if limitted, at least one could get started.  I've posted
similar questions to the zinf-users list and have had no response from
anyone on the subject.  Guess I'll send the message again.

On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 04:33:40PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> Steve,
> 
> 	I downloaded and ran the rpm.  Then it wanted another rpm which 
> I went and got, but I don't wsee the zinf.ui or zinfcmd.ui in the 
> /usr/lib/zinf/plugins directory.
> 
> 	Maybe I need to find those files somewhere?
> 
> -- charlie.
> 
> On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, 
> Steve Holmes wrote:
> 
> > Damn!
> > 
> > How did you install zinf?  Did you do the ./configure / make / make
> > install route or did you get a precompiled package?
> > 
> > It looks for plugins in /usr/local/lib/zinf/plugins for zinfcmd.ui or
> > ncurses.ui.  I couldn't get it to work by simply running the binary
> > out of the source directory.
> > 
> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 03:21:17PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > > Hi!
> > > 
> > > 	Sorry, but used zinf -ui zinfcmd *.mp3 and same result about no 
> > > plugin available 
> > > 
> > > -- charlie.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Sorry, that should be 'zinfcmd' not zcmd as I stated in my last message.
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:36:47AM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > > > > Well we have two choices as I see it.  
> > > > > zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
> > > > > or
> > > > > zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...
> > > > > 
> > > > > The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
> > > > > title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
> > > > > stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
> > > > > info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
> > > > > intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.
> > > > > 
> > > > > BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
> > > > > another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
> > > > > dispite the website's claims?
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > > > > > 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this 
> > > > > > message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I 
> > > > > > run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command 
> > > > > > line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what 
> > > > > > circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible 
> > > > > > of Linux and we get none.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -- charlie Crawford.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > 
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > > > >    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Zinf command line

[Janina Sajka]

I first tried installing zinf from rpm. When that failed, I tried compiling, but got the same error on execution. It's a
very long compile--somewhere around 30 minutes on my 750mHz Thinkpad. I forget the exact error because it's been over a
week, but it had to do with library versions, as I recall.

This is on a Red Hat Null with all the updates as of last week.

Steve Holmes writes:
> From: Steve Holmes <steve@holmesgrown.com>
> 
> Damn!
> 
> How did you install zinf?  Did you do the ./configure / make / make
> install route or did you get a precompiled package?
> 
> It looks for plugins in /usr/local/lib/zinf/plugins for zinfcmd.ui or
> ncurses.ui.  I couldn't get it to work by simply running the binary
> out of the source directory.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 03:21:17PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > 	Sorry, but used zinf -ui zinfcmd *.mp3 and same result about no 
> > plugin available 
> > 
> > -- charlie.
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > 
> > > Sorry, that should be 'zinfcmd' not zcmd as I stated in my last message.
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:36:47AM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > > > Well we have two choices as I see it.  
> > > > zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
> > > > or
> > > > zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...
> > > > 
> > > > The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
> > > > title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
> > > > stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
> > > > info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
> > > > intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.
> > > > 
> > > > BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
> > > > another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
> > > > dispite the website's claims?
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > > > > 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this 
> > > > > message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I 
> > > > > run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command 
> > > > > line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what 
> > > > > circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible 
> > > > > of Linux and we get none.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -- charlie Crawford.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > > >    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
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> > > 
> > > 
> > 
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> -- 
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
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> 
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-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: Zinf command line

[Deedra Waters]

I tried to compile it from source this morning, and I couldn't get it to
install at all. I can't remember exact errors now, but it didn't go threw.


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On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> I first tried installing zinf from rpm. When that failed, I tried compiling, but got the same error on execution. It's a
> very long compile--somewhere around 30 minutes on my 750mHz Thinkpad. I forget the exact error because it's been over a
> week, but it had to do with library versions, as I recall.
>
> This is on a Red Hat Null with all the updates as of last week.
>
> Steve Holmes writes:
> > From: Steve Holmes <steve@holmesgrown.com>
> >
> > Damn!
> >
> > How did you install zinf?  Did you do the ./configure / make / make
> > install route or did you get a precompiled package?
> >
> > It looks for plugins in /usr/local/lib/zinf/plugins for zinfcmd.ui or
> > ncurses.ui.  I couldn't get it to work by simply running the binary
> > out of the source directory.
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 03:21:17PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > 	Sorry, but used zinf -ui zinfcmd *.mp3 and same result about no
> > > plugin available
> > >
> > > -- charlie.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry, that should be 'zinfcmd' not zcmd as I stated in my last message.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:36:47AM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > > > > Well we have two choices as I see it.
> > > > > zinf -ui zcmd file1 file2 ...
> > > > > or
> > > > > zinf -ui ncurses file1 file2 ...
> > > > >
> > > > > The ncurses choice allows you to see tag information such as artist,
> > > > > title, genre, track number, year, etc.  The zinfcmd option is a
> > > > > stripped down command environment kinda like trplayer but lacks the
> > > > > info display but allows for movement through the track at ten seconds
> > > > > intervals where ncurses does not have this option for some reason.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, does anyone know how to play CD's with zinf?  I asked here and on
> > > > > another list but have no answers yet.  Is it really not possible
> > > > > dispite the website's claims?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:02:30PM -0400, ccrawford@acb.org wrote:
> > > > > > 	I have been trying to get zinf to run and I keep getting this
> > > > > > message about how there is no ui in the plugins library to match.  When I
> > > > > > run the help it does not tell me anything constructive except the command
> > > > > > line sample.  What is the ui file and which one should be used under what
> > > > > > circumstances?  This is really annoying since documentation is the bible
> > > > > > of Linux and we get none.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- charlie Crawford.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > > > >    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > --
> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> >    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Terry D. Cudney]

Hi Adam,

	If you contact Vividata, they will give you instructions on how to install OCRShoppe fromthe command line (it's an X-based installation normally). However, when you follow their instructions, it becomes apparent that the directory structure (hierarchy) and library versions used by RedHat are different from the way things are set up in Debian.

	If you're gung ho, and feel confident about tracing/fixing directory hierarchy/library incompatibilities during the installation, then go for it. I spent a day on it and gave up. It just didn't seem worth the hassle... especially when you have to pay for it too.

	Just my $0.02CDN.

	--terry

On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:40:01PM -0500, Adam Myrow wrote:
> They have a demo of OCR Shop on the web site and I was thinking of
> downloading it.  What specifically makes it only run on Redhat?  Is it
> only in RPM format?  Otherwise, I don't see why it shouldn't run in any
> distro, but not being open source, we'll never know what they wrote it in
> nor what it depends on.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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-- 

Name:	Terry D. Cudney
Phone:	(705) 422-0039
E-mail:	terry@CottageInWasaga.com
Web:	www.CottageInWasaga.com

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like...
having a peeing sectionin a swimming pool.

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Adam Myrow]

They have a demo of OCR Shop on the web site and I was thinking of
downloading it.  What specifically makes it only run on Redhat?  Is it
only in RPM format?  Otherwise, I don't see why it shouldn't run in any
distro, but not being open source, we'll never know what they wrote it in
nor what it depends on.

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Terry D. Cudney]

Hi all,

	OCRShoppe is targeted at RedHat. It doesn't install on a Debian system. I contacted Vividata and they promised to make a Debian compatible version, but that's last January. Before that I contacted them last August; they made the same promise then... Still they're not doing anything but RedHat. I agree, it should be a good ocr solution... but for now, it's only for RedHat users.

	--terry
 
On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 06:51:54PM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> Ocr Shop might be a nice program and is priced on the same level as most
> cots ocr packages accept for something like Openbook which is very
> expensive. However, Oct Shop is much more easily configured on a RedHat
> or perhaps Debian box or a distro that uses that flavor of configuration.
> I found it quite frankly to be a bitch to setup.
> I never did determine how well it worked, but if you want to spend the
> money, I think you'll find it to be a good program.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
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-- 

Name:	Terry D. Cudney
Phone:	(705) 422-0039
E-mail:	terry@CottageInWasaga.com
Web:	www.CottageInWasaga.com

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like...
having a peeing sectionin a swimming pool.

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Scott Howell]

Ocr Shop might be a nice program and is priced on the same level as most
cots ocr packages accept for something like Openbook which is very
expensive. However, Oct Shop is much more easily configured on a RedHat
or perhaps Debian box or a distro that uses that flavor of configuration.
I found it quite frankly to be a bitch to setup.
I never did determine how well it worked, but if you want to spend the
money, I think you'll find it to be a good program.

Re: OCR -- Was "Why I Choose Linux"

[Thomas Ward]

Well, if anyone is looking for a quality scan program OCR Shop does the job.
it uses the Care MTX scan engine, the same engine used by Omnipage and
Openbook, and Vividata offers a command line interface.
The version for a single home user is $99.00, and they support alot of the
popular scsi scanners.
So if you want something a little more professional get OCR Shop, and see if
you can find one of the supported scanners.