TODO file

TODO file

[Okash Khawaja]

Hi,

I am going through drivers/staging/speakup/TODO file with the aim of
creating tasks on the github page[1]. I need some help in understanding
what the tasks in TODO file mean, so I will be posting my questions to
this thread.

For now, I wanted to ask how much of this part is still to be done:

"The first issue has to do with the way speakup communicates with serial
ports.  Currently, we communicate directly with the hardware ports.
This however conflicts with the standard serial port drivers, which
poses various problems. This is also not working for modern hardware
such as PCI-based serial ports.  Also, there is not a way we can
communicate with USB devices.  The current serial port handling code is
in serialio.c in this directory."

Thanks,
Okash

[1] https://github.com/bytefire/speakup/issues

Re: TODO file

[Samuel Thibault]

Okash Khawaja, le mar. 12 mars 2019 20:26:52 +0000, a ecrit:
> For now, I wanted to ask how much of this part is still to be done:
> 
> "The first issue has to do with the way speakup communicates with serial
> ports.  Currently, we communicate directly with the hardware ports.
> This however conflicts with the standard serial port drivers, which
> poses various problems. This is also not working for modern hardware
> such as PCI-based serial ports.  Also, there is not a way we can
> communicate with USB devices.  The current serial port handling code is
> in serialio.c in this directory."

You have done it all :)

(even if, as you mentioned, the USB auto-probing would now be great)

Samuel

Re: TODO file

[Okash Khawaja]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 23:09:15 +0100
Samuel Thibault <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> wrote:

> Okash Khawaja, le mar. 12 mars 2019 20:26:52 +0000, a ecrit:
> > For now, I wanted to ask how much of this part is still to be done:
> > 
> > "The first issue has to do with the way speakup communicates with
> > serial ports.  Currently, we communicate directly with the hardware
> > ports. This however conflicts with the standard serial port
> > drivers, which poses various problems. This is also not working for
> > modern hardware such as PCI-based serial ports.  Also, there is not
> > a way we can communicate with USB devices.  The current serial port
> > handling code is in serialio.c in this directory."  
> 
> You have done it all :)
> 
> (even if, as you mentioned, the USB auto-probing would now be great)
> 
> Samuel

Great, thanks. At the end of this exercise, I'll update TODO file and
add usb auto-probing to it.

Regarding:

"Some places are currently using in_atomic() because speakup functions
are called in various contexts, and a couple of things can't happen
in these cases. Pushing work to some worker thread would probably help,
as was already done for the serial port driving part."

I can't find any reference to in_atomic() in speakup code. According to
"Atomic context and kernel API design" [1] lwn article, in_atomic()
started being phased out of general kernel code around 2.6.26. I guess
this commit removed remaining references to in_atomic: d7500135802c
"Staging: speakup: Move pasting into a work item". Is there any more
work to be done for this?

Also can someone give a bit of a background or pointers regarding
moving kobjects:

"The kobjects may have to move to a more proper place in /sys. The
discussion on lkml resulted to putting speech synthesizers in the
"speech" class, and the speakup screen reader itself into
/sys/class/vtconsole/vtcon0/speakup, the nasty path being handled by
userland tools."

Thanks,
Okash

[1] https://lwn.net/Articles/274695/

Re: TODO file

[Samuel Thibault]

Okash Khawaja, le jeu. 14 mars 2019 11:07:26 +0000, a ecrit:
> I can't find any reference to in_atomic() in speakup code. According to
> "Atomic context and kernel API design" [1] lwn article, in_atomic()
> started being phased out of general kernel code around 2.6.26. I guess
> this commit removed remaining references to in_atomic: d7500135802c
> "Staging: speakup: Move pasting into a work item". Is there any more
> work to be done for this?

It seems there is no more indeed.

> Also can someone give a bit of a background or pointers regarding
> moving kobjects:
> 
> "The kobjects may have to move to a more proper place in /sys. The
> discussion on lkml resulted to putting speech synthesizers in the
> "speech" class, and the speakup screen reader itself into
> /sys/class/vtconsole/vtcon0/speakup, the nasty path being handled by
> userland tools."

I don't remember the discussion. I'm not sure what is best. Moving
synthesizers to a speech class and the screen reader to vtconsole makes
sense technically, less so in terms of users (and the userland tools
then have to adapt to the new path). I'd say try to find the discussions
where the location was discussed, to check whether this is really wanted
by kernel developers, otherwise I'd stay leave it where it is and focus
on items which are more useful.

Actually, perhaps the only item that remains for getting out of staging/
is the selection duplication. Perhaps it is time to check with Greg what
he sees needs to be done. Perhaps only codestyle remains at this point?
(getting out of staging is an important goal, both for settling the
driver, but also for getting included in distributions which build only
mainline drivers)

Samuel

Re: TODO file

[Okash Khawaja]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 13:24:47 +0100
Samuel Thibault <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> wrote:

> Okash Khawaja, le jeu. 14 mars 2019 11:07:26 +0000, a ecrit:
> > I can't find any reference to in_atomic() in speakup code.
> > According to "Atomic context and kernel API design" [1] lwn
> > article, in_atomic() started being phased out of general kernel
> > code around 2.6.26. I guess this commit removed remaining
> > references to in_atomic: d7500135802c "Staging: speakup: Move
> > pasting into a work item". Is there any more work to be done for
> > this?  
> 
> It seems there is no more indeed.
> 
> > Also can someone give a bit of a background or pointers regarding
> > moving kobjects:
> > 
> > "The kobjects may have to move to a more proper place in /sys. The
> > discussion on lkml resulted to putting speech synthesizers in the
> > "speech" class, and the speakup screen reader itself into
> > /sys/class/vtconsole/vtcon0/speakup, the nasty path being handled by
> > userland tools."  
> 
> I don't remember the discussion. I'm not sure what is best. Moving
> synthesizers to a speech class and the screen reader to vtconsole
> makes sense technically, less so in terms of users (and the userland
> tools then have to adapt to the new path). I'd say try to find the
> discussions where the location was discussed, to check whether this
> is really wanted by kernel developers, otherwise I'd stay leave it
> where it is and focus on items which are more useful.
> 
> Actually, perhaps the only item that remains for getting out of
> staging/ is the selection duplication. Perhaps it is time to check
> with Greg what he sees needs to be done. Perhaps only codestyle
> remains at this point? (getting out of staging is an important goal,
> both for settling the driver, but also for getting included in
> distributions which build only mainline drivers)

That sounds good. I'll start a thread with Greg and see where we go.

Thanks very much.

Okash

Re: TODO file

[Samuel Thibault]

Okash Khawaja, le jeu. 14 mars 2019 15:43:03 +0000, a ecrit:
> That sounds good. I'll start a thread with Greg and see where we go.

Remember to keep in Cc the speakup, the staging, and the linux-kernel
mailing lists.

Thanks!
Samuel

Re: TODO file

[Okash Khawaja]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 16:44:19 +0100
Samuel Thibault <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> wrote:

> Okash Khawaja, le jeu. 14 mars 2019 15:43:03 +0000, a ecrit:
> > That sounds good. I'll start a thread with Greg and see where we
> > go.  
> 
> Remember to keep in Cc the speakup, the staging, and the linux-kernel
> mailing lists.
> 

Thanks for the heads up. Will do that.

I am putting together the email with status for each item in TODO file.
I just have two more queries.

1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?

2. What is status of output buffer getting garbled in SMP systems?
Here's the text from TODO file:

"Another issue seems to only happen on SMP systems.  It seems
that text in the output buffer gets garbled because a lock is not set.
This bug happens regularly, but no one has been able to find a situation
which produces it consistently."

Thanks,
Okash

Re: TODO file

[Samuel Thibault]

Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?

I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.

> 2. What is status of output buffer getting garbled in SMP systems?
> Here's the text from TODO file:
> 
> "Another issue seems to only happen on SMP systems.  It seems
> that text in the output buffer gets garbled because a lock is not set.
> This bug happens regularly, but no one has been able to find a situation
> which produces it consistently."

Since for now we do not really have a reproducer, we can not do much
code-wise. But one could try to look at making a reproducer. I don't
think this item would hinder moving speakup to mainline.

Samuel

Re: TODO file

[Okash Khawaja]

On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 12:39:55 +0100
Samuel Thibault <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> wrote:

> Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?  
> 
> I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA
> cards), so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in
> mainline.
That makes sense.

> 
> > 2. What is status of output buffer getting garbled in SMP systems?
> > Here's the text from TODO file:
> > 
> > "Another issue seems to only happen on SMP systems.  It seems
> > that text in the output buffer gets garbled because a lock is not
> > set. This bug happens regularly, but no one has been able to find a
> > situation which produces it consistently."  
> 
> Since for now we do not really have a reproducer, we can not do much
> code-wise. But one could try to look at making a reproducer. I don't
> think this item would hinder moving speakup to mainline.
Okay great.

I'll shortly send the email out. Thanks a lot for your help!

Okash

Re: TODO file

[Gregory Nowak]

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> 
> I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.

I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
with newer kernels.

Unfortunately, shipping a PC within the U.S. is quite expensive, never
mind shipping one from the U.S. to the U.K. Since this hardware is
also rare as Samuel points out, I admit parting with that machine to
ship it would be a last resort option for me. Getting into linux
development is on my to do list, so maybe I'll resolve this myself one
day if I'm still using the DoubleTalk card by that time.

Greg


-- 
web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.

--
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: TODO file

[Samuel Thibault]

Gregory Nowak, le ven. 15 mars 2019 16:54:24 -0700, a ecrit:
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> > 
> > I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> > hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> > so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> 
> I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> with newer kernels.

The support is not to be removed. It's just that the way we are
accessing the cards is really nasty, I don't think we can get this into
mainline.

I'm however wondering: is that an ISA card you still manage to run? Or
are there PCI versions? (but then I wonder how they get to expose ISA
ports).

Samuel

Re: TODO file

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 01:20:15AM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> I'm however wondering: is that an ISA card you still manage to run? Or
> are there PCI versions? (but then I wonder how they get to expose ISA
> ports).

No, this is an ISA card, running in what would be considered a vintage
(or maybe antique) machine.

Greg


-- 
web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.

--
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: TODO file

[Janina Sajka]

I should add I also have a socket 7 board with ISA and PCI slots, never
used also available. It's possible I have all the parts to build a box
with those except a powersupply and case.

Janina

Samuel Thibault writes:
> Gregory Nowak, le ven. 15 mars 2019 16:54:24 -0700, a ecrit:
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > > > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > > > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> > > 
> > > I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> > > hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> > > so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> > 
> > I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> > more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> > driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> > would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> > with newer kernels.
> 
> The support is not to be removed. It's just that the way we are
> accessing the cards is really nasty, I don't think we can get this into
> mainline.
> 
> I'm however wondering: is that an ISA card you still manage to run? Or
> are there PCI versions? (but then I wonder how they get to expose ISA
> ports).
> 
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

Re: TODO file

[Tom Fowle]

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 04:54:24PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> > 
> > I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> > hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> > so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> 
> I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> with newer kernels.
> 
> Unfortunately, shipping a PC within the U.S. is quite expensive, never
> mind shipping one from the U.S. to the U.K. Since this hardware is
> also rare as Samuel points out, I admit parting with that machine to
> ship it would be a last resort option for me. Getting into linux
> development is on my to do list, so maybe I'll resolve this myself one
> day if I'm still using the DoubleTalk card by that time.
> 
> Greg
> 
I am another doubletalk PC user it's a matter of preference, I find espeak
harsh and tiring to listen too for long.
The doubletalk pc does use an isa slot and it is still possible to find
relatively modern mother boards with "legacy" ISA slots however, I'm pretty
sure the doubletalk PC is no longer available.

>From any rational viewpoint it is hard to see why anybody would go to the
trouble to work on this but it would be much appreciated.

I'm considering trying voxin if my current usage including the older kernel
required for Doubletalk PC support becomes non-viable 
I guess the question is to what extent and with what difficulty could the
old functional doubletalk module be made to work with the newer kernels. 
Not being a developer I'm sure I'd not understand that problem.

Thanks for any consideration
tom Fowle WA;6IVG

> -- 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: TODO file

[Janina Sajka]

I can't ship an entire machine, but I have several internal Doubletalk
cards, as well as an external serial port interfacing Doubletalk, and a
serial or USB interfacing Tripletalk I would be able to donate. The
internal cards are ISA, though. While it's not impossible to get a board
with ISA slots, it's pretty rare and certainly not consumer hardware
anylonger.

These old devices are about to get trashed, so if anyone wants them, let
me know asap.

Janina

Gregory Nowak writes:
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> > 
> > I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> > hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> > so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> 
> I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> with newer kernels.
> 
> Unfortunately, shipping a PC within the U.S. is quite expensive, never
> mind shipping one from the U.S. to the U.K. Since this hardware is
> also rare as Samuel points out, I admit parting with that machine to
> ship it would be a last resort option for me. Getting into linux
> development is on my to do list, so maybe I'll resolve this myself one
> day if I'm still using the DoubleTalk card by that time.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> -- 
> web site: http://www.gregn.net
> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
> 
> --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

Re: doubletalks

[Tom Fowle]

Janina,
It would be hard to find a purpose for the ISA cards I suppose, I have a
spare as well as two serial units.

However the serial units can be very handy for folks doing custom embedded
systems arduino's etc.

You might drop Josh Miele at Smith-Kettlewell a note see if anybody there
might want them.Depending on how much trouble you want to take, I seem to
recall there is a list somewhere to exchange out dated access gear.
Tom Fowle


On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:32:26AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> I can't ship an entire machine, but I have several internal Doubletalk
> cards, as well as an external serial port interfacing Doubletalk, and a
> serial or USB interfacing Tripletalk I would be able to donate. The
> internal cards are ISA, though. While it's not impossible to get a board
> with ISA slots, it's pretty rare and certainly not consumer hardware
> anylonger.
> 
> These old devices are about to get trashed, so if anyone wants them, let
> me know asap.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Gregory Nowak writes:
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > > > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > > > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> > > 
> > > I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> > > hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> > > so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> > 
> > I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> > more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> > driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> > would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> > with newer kernels.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, shipping a PC within the U.S. is quite expensive, never
> > mind shipping one from the U.S. to the U.K. Since this hardware is
> > also rare as Samuel points out, I admit parting with that machine to
> > ship it would be a last resort option for me. Getting into linux
> > development is on my to do list, so maybe I'll resolve this myself one
> > day if I'm still using the DoubleTalk card by that time.
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > web site: http://www.gregn.net
> > gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> > skype: gregn1
> > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> > If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
> > 
> > --
> > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: doubletalks

[Tom Fowle]

Janina,
forgot to include Josh's email:
jam@ski.org
Tom Fowle


On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 08:21:33PM -0700, Tom Fowle wrote:
> Janina,
> It would be hard to find a purpose for the ISA cards I suppose, I have a
> spare as well as two serial units.
> 
> However the serial units can be very handy for folks doing custom embedded
> systems arduino's etc.
> 
> You might drop Josh Miele at Smith-Kettlewell a note see if anybody there
> might want them.Depending on how much trouble you want to take, I seem to
> recall there is a list somewhere to exchange out dated access gear.
> Tom Fowle
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:32:26AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > I can't ship an entire machine, but I have several internal Doubletalk
> > cards, as well as an external serial port interfacing Doubletalk, and a
> > serial or USB interfacing Tripletalk I would be able to donate. The
> > internal cards are ISA, though. While it's not impossible to get a board
> > with ISA slots, it's pretty rare and certainly not consumer hardware
> > anylonger.
> > 
> > These old devices are about to get trashed, so if anyone wants them, let
> > me know asap.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Gregory Nowak writes:
> > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > > Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > > > > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > > > > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> > > > 
> > > > I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> > > > hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> > > > so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> > > 
> > > I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> > > more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> > > driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> > > would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> > > with newer kernels.
> > > 
> > > Unfortunately, shipping a PC within the U.S. is quite expensive, never
> > > mind shipping one from the U.S. to the U.K. Since this hardware is
> > > also rare as Samuel points out, I admit parting with that machine to
> > > ship it would be a last resort option for me. Getting into linux
> > > development is on my to do list, so maybe I'll resolve this myself one
> > > day if I'm still using the DoubleTalk card by that time.
> > > 
> > > Greg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > web site: http://www.gregn.net
> > > gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> > > skype: gregn1
> > > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> > > If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Janina Sajka
> > 
> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
> > 
> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: doubletalks

[Janina Sajka]

Thanks, Tom. That's a great suggestion I hadn't considered.

I know Josh, so will simply take the opportunity to catch up.

PS: This thread got me wishing I could put that old ISA Doubletalk back
into service. So, I went looking for motherboards that support ISA
slots, but found nothing newer than some supporting Celeron CPUs. Pretty
ancient.

Janina

Tom Fowle writes:
> Janina,
> It would be hard to find a purpose for the ISA cards I suppose, I have a
> spare as well as two serial units.
> 
> However the serial units can be very handy for folks doing custom embedded
> systems arduino's etc.
> 
> You might drop Josh Miele at Smith-Kettlewell a note see if anybody there
> might want them.Depending on how much trouble you want to take, I seem to
> recall there is a list somewhere to exchange out dated access gear.
> Tom Fowle
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:32:26AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > I can't ship an entire machine, but I have several internal Doubletalk
> > cards, as well as an external serial port interfacing Doubletalk, and a
> > serial or USB interfacing Tripletalk I would be able to donate. The
> > internal cards are ISA, though. While it's not impossible to get a board
> > with ISA slots, it's pretty rare and certainly not consumer hardware
> > anylonger.
> > 
> > These old devices are about to get trashed, so if anyone wants them, let
> > me know asap.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Gregory Nowak writes:
> > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > > Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > > > > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > > > > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> > > > 
> > > > I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> > > > hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> > > > so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> > > 
> > > I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> > > more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> > > driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> > > would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> > > with newer kernels.
> > > 
> > > Unfortunately, shipping a PC within the U.S. is quite expensive, never
> > > mind shipping one from the U.S. to the U.K. Since this hardware is
> > > also rare as Samuel points out, I admit parting with that machine to
> > > ship it would be a last resort option for me. Getting into linux
> > > development is on my to do list, so maybe I'll resolve this myself one
> > > day if I'm still using the DoubleTalk card by that time.
> > > 
> > > Greg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > web site: http://www.gregn.net
> > > gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> > > skype: gregn1
> > > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> > > If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Janina Sajka
> > 
> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
> > 
> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

Re: doubletalks

[Tom Fowle]

Janina,
In a brief look my wife found quite a surprising number of boards withISA
slots, but as you say the best to be found is a pentium 5 celeron dual core
3.2 GHZ for I think $350.00 or so.

Considering that as of now you've gotta run an ancient kernel it doesn't
seem a reasonable venture <SIGH>

Hope Josh can use at least the serial DTLKs.

Tom Fowle


On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 01:56:05AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Thanks, Tom. That's a great suggestion I hadn't considered.
> 
> I know Josh, so will simply take the opportunity to catch up.
> 
> PS: This thread got me wishing I could put that old ISA Doubletalk back
> into service. So, I went looking for motherboards that support ISA
> slots, but found nothing newer than some supporting Celeron CPUs. Pretty
> ancient.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Tom Fowle writes:
> > Janina,
> > It would be hard to find a purpose for the ISA cards I suppose, I have a
> > spare as well as two serial units.
> > 
> > However the serial units can be very handy for folks doing custom embedded
> > systems arduino's etc.
> > 
> > You might drop Josh Miele at Smith-Kettlewell a note see if anybody there
> > might want them.Depending on how much trouble you want to take, I seem to
> > recall there is a list somewhere to exchange out dated access gear.
> > Tom Fowle
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:32:26AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > I can't ship an entire machine, but I have several internal Doubletalk
> > > cards, as well as an external serial port interfacing Doubletalk, and a
> > > serial or USB interfacing Tripletalk I would be able to donate. The
> > > internal cards are ISA, though. While it's not impossible to get a board
> > > with ISA slots, it's pretty rare and certainly not consumer hardware
> > > anylonger.
> > > 
> > > These old devices are about to get trashed, so if anyone wants them, let
> > > me know asap.
> > > 
> > > Janina
> > > 
> > > Gregory Nowak writes:
> > > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > > > Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > > > > > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > > > > > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> > > > > hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> > > > > so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> > > > 
> > > > I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> > > > more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> > > > driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> > > > would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> > > > with newer kernels.
> > > > 
> > > > Unfortunately, shipping a PC within the U.S. is quite expensive, never
> > > > mind shipping one from the U.S. to the U.K. Since this hardware is
> > > > also rare as Samuel points out, I admit parting with that machine to
> > > > ship it would be a last resort option for me. Getting into linux
> > > > development is on my to do list, so maybe I'll resolve this myself one
> > > > day if I'm still using the DoubleTalk card by that time.
> > > > 
> > > > Greg
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > web site: http://www.gregn.net
> > > > gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> > > > skype: gregn1
> > > > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> > > > If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > > > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > 
> > > Janina Sajka
> > > 
> > > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
> > > 
> > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: TODO file

[John Covici]

I do know thatwith 4.9.20, index marks are lost when the cpu is even
moderately busy -- I wonder if  thismightberelated?

On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 07:39:55 -0400,
Samuel Thibault wrote:
> 
> Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> > 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> > communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> 
> I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> 
> > 2. What is status of output buffer getting garbled in SMP systems?
> > Here's the text from TODO file:
> > 
> > "Another issue seems to only happen on SMP systems.  It seems
> > that text in the output buffer gets garbled because a lock is not set.
> > This bug happens regularly, but no one has been able to find a situation
> > which produces it consistently."
> 
> Since for now we do not really have a reproducer, we can not do much
> code-wise. But one could try to look at making a reproducer. I don't
> think this item would hinder moving speakup to mainline.
> 
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: TODO file

[John Covici]

Correction 4.19.20.

> On Mar 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, John Covici <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
> 
> I do know thatwith 4.9.20, index marks are lost when the cpu is even
> moderately busy -- I wonder if  thismightberelated?
> 
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 07:39:55 -0400,
> Samuel Thibault wrote:
>> 
>> Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
>>> 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
>>> communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
>> 
>> I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
>> hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
>> so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
>> 
>>> 2. What is status of output buffer getting garbled in SMP systems?
>>> Here's the text from TODO file:
>>> 
>>> "Another issue seems to only happen on SMP systems.  It seems
>>> that text in the output buffer gets garbled because a lock is not set.
>>> This bug happens regularly, but no one has been able to find a situation
>>> which produces it consistently."
>> 
>> Since for now we do not really have a reproducer, we can not do much
>> code-wise. But one could try to look at making a reproducer. I don't
>> think this item would hinder moving speakup to mainline.
>> 
>> Samuel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> How do
> you spend it?
> 
>         John Covici wb2una
>         covici@ccs.covici.com
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: TODO file

[Gregory Nowak]

I'm forwarding Deedra's message to the list, since it came to me
directly. I do agree that outstanding bugs which effect everyone
should be solved first, and wish list items such as internal ISA cards
should be probably given lower priority.

Greg


----- Forwarded message from deedra Waters <deedra@the-brannons.com> -----

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 17:00:55 -0700
From: deedra Waters <deedra@the-brannons.com>
To: Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net>
Subject: Re: TODO file

i would say we need to find out how many people are actually still using those
i know of at least 2-3. if there are say 10 people that actually use those
synths then maybe it's worth looking at. but honestly i'd focus on the main
bugs first .  and i mean the bugs that really need fixing then after those are
fixed then move on to the hardware synths if there's time..


personally it's been close to 10 years since i was able to have a hardware
synth and with the stuff i carry around these days and with how bulky they can
be it's not worth the extra back pain to worry about hardware synths.


honestly at this point, i really wish someone would fix the garbled speach bug
because it's largely why i dont use speakup  in the console any more. I have
speakup as a backup at this point because it got too frustrating to use with
garbled speech on a machine that's smp and no way i'm disabling cores just to
have speech that's not garbled.




On 3/15/19 4:54 PM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>> Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
>>> 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
>>> communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
>> I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
>> hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
>> so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> with newer kernels.
> 
> Unfortunately, shipping a PC within the U.S. is quite expensive, never
> mind shipping one from the U.S. to the U.K. Since this hardware is
> also rare as Samuel points out, I admit parting with that machine to
> ship it would be a last resort option for me. Getting into linux
> development is on my to do list, so maybe I'll resolve this myself one
> day if I'm still using the DoubleTalk card by that time.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.

--
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: TODO file

[Tom Fowle]

I certainly aggree that major bugs which interfeer with many people should
get top priority.
tom Fowle

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 05:29:19PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> I'm forwarding Deedra's message to the list, since it came to me
> directly. I do agree that outstanding bugs which effect everyone
> should be solved first, and wish list items such as internal ISA cards
> should be probably given lower priority.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from deedra Waters <deedra@the-brannons.com> -----
> 
> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 17:00:55 -0700
> From: deedra Waters <deedra@the-brannons.com>
> To: Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net>
> Subject: Re: TODO file
> 
> i would say we need to find out how many people are actually still using those
> i know of at least 2-3. if there are say 10 people that actually use those
> synths then maybe it's worth looking at. but honestly i'd focus on the main
> bugs first .  and i mean the bugs that really need fixing then after those are
> fixed then move on to the hardware synths if there's time..
> 
> 
> personally it's been close to 10 years since i was able to have a hardware
> synth and with the stuff i carry around these days and with how bulky they can
> be it's not worth the extra back pain to worry about hardware synths.
> 
> 
> honestly at this point, i really wish someone would fix the garbled speach bug
> because it's largely why i dont use speakup  in the console any more. I have
> speakup as a backup at this point because it got too frustrating to use with
> garbled speech on a machine that's smp and no way i'm disabling cores just to
> have speech that's not garbled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/15/19 4:54 PM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> >> Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> >>> 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> >>> communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> >> I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> >> hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> >> so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> > I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> > more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> > driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> > would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> > with newer kernels.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, shipping a PC within the U.S. is quite expensive, never
> > mind shipping one from the U.S. to the U.K. Since this hardware is
> > also rare as Samuel points out, I admit parting with that machine to
> > ship it would be a last resort option for me. Getting into linux
> > development is on my to do list, so maybe I'll resolve this myself one
> > day if I'm still using the DoubleTalk card by that time.
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> 
> -- 
> web site: http://www.gregn.net
> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
> 
> --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: TODO file

[John Covici]

I am not seeingthisissue on my smp system.  I use speakout as my synth.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 20:29:19 -0400,
Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> I'm forwarding Deedra's message to the list, since it came to me
> directly. I do agree that outstanding bugs which effect everyone
> should be solved first, and wish list items such as internal ISA cards
> should be probably given lower priority.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from deedra Waters <deedra@the-brannons.com> -----
> 
> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 17:00:55 -0700
> From: deedra Waters <deedra@the-brannons.com>
> To: Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net>
> Subject: Re: TODO file
> 
> i would say we need to find out how many people are actually still using those
> i know of at least 2-3. if there are say 10 people that actually use those
> synths then maybe it's worth looking at. but honestly i'd focus on the main
> bugs first .  and i mean the bugs that really need fixing then after those are
> fixed then move on to the hardware synths if there's time..
> 
> 
> personally it's been close to 10 years since i was able to have a hardware
> synth and with the stuff i carry around these days and with how bulky they can
> be it's not worth the extra back pain to worry about hardware synths.
> 
> 
> honestly at this point, i really wish someone would fix the garbled speach bug
> because it's largely why i dont use speakup  in the console any more. I have
> speakup as a backup at this point because it got too frustrating to use with
> garbled speech on a machine that's smp and no way i'm disabling cores just to
> have speech that's not garbled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/15/19 4:54 PM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:39:55PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> >> Okash Khawaja, le ven. 15 mars 2019 10:57:35 +0000, a ecrit:
> >>> 1. What are our options for internal synths which still use direct
> >>> communication with hardware: acntpc, decpc, dtlk and keypc?
> >> I was thinking they could just remain in staging. The corresponding
> >> hardware is very difficult to make work nowadays (typically ISA cards),
> >> so I don't think it is a problem that they are not in mainline.
> > I'd just like to chime in here, and say that at least myself, and one
> > more person on this list are still using a DoubleTalk PC card (dtlk
> > driver). While I understand the two of us are in the minority, it
> > would be appreciated if these cards could be made to work once again
> > with newer kernels.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, shipping a PC within the U.S. is quite expensive, never
> > mind shipping one from the U.S. to the U.K. Since this hardware is
> > also rare as Samuel points out, I admit parting with that machine to
> > ship it would be a last resort option for me. Getting into linux
> > development is on my to do list, so maybe I'll resolve this myself one
> > day if I'm still using the DoubleTalk card by that time.
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> 
> -- 
> web site: http://www.gregn.net
> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
> 
> --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com