* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
@ Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Laura Eaves @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Hi Janina --
I tried sending this once before but it bounced due to message size...
But as for gnome:
That is interesting about the query capabilities of the gnome interface --
but I disagree that implementing a full ncurses, text-only representation
based on these queries is necessary, as that would just require a lot of
useless code to do screen layout of text when graphical screen layout has
already been done by gnome, right? Actually, some users don't know this, but
with MSAA, the in MS Internet Explorer for example, the screen reader
queries the browser for the relevant text and label info for speech and
braille purposes, but lets the browser continue to display whatever pictures
and even animation happen to be on the page. Of course, there are still
some things that aren't accessible, such as some messaging apps and also
text that continually updates that drives screen readers crazy, but the
effect is that a sighted person can come to a browser session and see and
describe a picture at the same time the blind person is hearing the alt text
spoken by the screen reader.
I know that as long as visual effects are possible, new and innovative
applications will come out that will trash a screen reader, and screen
readers will have to play catchup for accessibility, but it is still nice to
know that you don't have to construct your own text screen in order to
access a gui -- all you need is information hooks to get useful data.
If I ever get this machine up and running -- and I don't even have the pc or
the hardware synth yet -- I will probably look more into such things.
Meanwhile, enjoy!
Take care.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
Laura, you're correct that the console interface is character based.
And, I also want to say that we're not ignoring Gnome. It just doesn't
do anything very useful yet.
On the other hand, since you're a programmer, let me comment that the
opportunity is there to make alternative interfaces for gnome apps,
given the object architecture that support accessibility. In other
words, it isn't necessarrily the gui which can provide access to a gnome
app. It is possible to querry all available objects on the gnome
desktop, or for a particular app, and obtain data, including text
labels, data values, etc. So, it is reasonable to consider that one
might, for instance, create an ncurses interface to gui applications. No
one has built such an interface to my knowledge, but the opportunity is
there. And there is a tool that exposes this data, though it does it
graphically and it is not itself accessible by design--in order to avoid
infinite regression. The tool is called at-poke.
I would love to see some apps from the gnome desktop made accessible
this way, while we wait for the gnome screen reader to become really
usable, because there is intrinsically no reason to paint the gui for
the user who can't appreciate it. In fact, it could be considered a
waste of resources so to do.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux Laura Eaves
@ ` Janina Sajka
` Kenny Hitt
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Laura Eaves writes:
> Hi Janina --
> I tried sending this once before but it bounced due to message size...
> But as for gnome:
> That is interesting about the query capabilities of the gnome interface --
> but I disagree that implementing a full ncurses, text-only representation
> based on these queries is necessary, as that would just require a lot of
> useless code to do screen layout of text when graphical screen layout has
> already been done by gnome, right? Actually, some users don't know this, but
dGo
I didn't say it was necessary. I said it was possible and that there are
good reasons to consider doing it that way, not the least of which being
that gnome is not very accessible, whereas the console is.
> queries the browser for the relevant text and label info for speech and
> braille purposes, but lets the browser continue to display whatever pictures
> and even animation happen to be on the page. Of course, there are still
> some things that aren't accessible, such as some messaging apps and also
> text that continually updates that drives screen readers crazy, but the
> effect is that a sighted person can come to a browser session and see and
> describe a picture at the same time the blind person is hearing the alt text
> spoken by the screen reader.
> I know that as long as visual effects are possible, new and innovative
> applications will come out that will trash a screen reader, and screen
> readers will have to play catchup for accessibility, but it is still nice to
> know that you don't have to construct your own text screen in order to
> access a gui -- all you need is information hooks to get useful data.
> If I ever get this machine up and running -- and I don't even have the pc or
> the hardware synth yet -- I will probably look more into such things.
> Meanwhile, enjoy!
> Take care.
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 7:15 PM
> Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
>
>
> Laura, you're correct that the console interface is character based.
>
> And, I also want to say that we're not ignoring Gnome. It just doesn't
> do anything very useful yet.
>
> On the other hand, since you're a programmer, let me comment that the
> opportunity is there to make alternative interfaces for gnome apps,
> given the object architecture that support accessibility. In other
> words, it isn't necessarrily the gui which can provide access to a gnome
> app. It is possible to querry all available objects on the gnome
> desktop, or for a particular app, and obtain data, including text
> labels, data values, etc. So, it is reasonable to consider that one
> might, for instance, create an ncurses interface to gui applications. No
> one has built such an interface to my knowledge, but the opportunity is
> there. And there is a tool that exposes this data, though it does it
> graphically and it is not itself accessible by design--in order to avoid
> infinite regression. The tool is called at-poke.
>
> I would love to see some apps from the gnome desktop made accessible
> this way, while we wait for the gnome screen reader to become really
> usable, because there is intrinsically no reason to paint the gui for
> the user who can't appreciate it. In fact, it could be considered a
> waste of resources so to do.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
--
Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Janina Sajka
@ ` Kenny Hitt
` Janina Sajka
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Kenny Hitt @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Hi. Can you provide examples where writing a ncurses program to act as
the interface to a Gnome app would be helpful? Based on my experience
with Gnome, if the program provides the accessibility info, then it is
accessible in Gnome. If it doesn't provide the accessibility info, I
can't see how adding the extra layer of an ncurses app talking to a GTK
app will help.
I agree Gnome screen readers still need work, but wouldn't it be better
to focus on improving them?
Kenny
On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 09:09:59PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Laura Eaves writes:
> > Hi Janina --
> > I tried sending this once before but it bounced due to message size...
> > But as for gnome:
> > That is interesting about the query capabilities of the gnome interface --
> > but I disagree that implementing a full ncurses, text-only representation
> > based on these queries is necessary, as that would just require a lot of
> > useless code to do screen layout of text when graphical screen layout has
> > already been done by gnome, right? Actually, some users don't know this, but
> dGo
>
> I didn't say it was necessary. I said it was possible and that there are
> good reasons to consider doing it that way, not the least of which being
> that gnome is not very accessible, whereas the console is.
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Kenny Hitt
@ ` Janina Sajka
0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
This is a reasonable question, Kenny.
Let me start by agreeing that, all things being equal, there's nothing
to be gained. But, all things aren't equal. For example, it takes much
more in the way of system resources to run gnome with reasonable
performance. The difference isn't slight, but quite large. For the blind
user, those are all wasted resources, wasted on painting a gui that we
don't see.
Another example is portability. I'm expecting several devices will
become available in the next year or two that run Linux--portable
devices that you carry around like you might carry a Braille Note today.
These will be ncurses capable, but will undoubtedly not be gnopernicus
capable.
Lastly, there's the inequality of the AT itself. Of course someone
should continue working on gnopernicus, and someone will. I'm not sure
there has been much "we" in that process, despite the open license, for
various reasons. I'm not sure how much "we" there will be going forward
either, for various reasons. But, I am sure there will be continued
development until a robust, reliable, and effective screen reader for
the gui emerges. I'm sure there will be such a thing, and I'm sure it
will read QT4 based apps as well as GTK+ ones, because the fat cats need
such a screen reader to keep selling to our Uncle Sam.
Now, I will confess to a certain degree of impatience. However, that's
not the whole story. Most to the point, I don't believe it would be
necessary to contrive a ncurses interface for each individual app one
wanted to port. If that were so, I would judge such a suggestion futile.
The beauty of at-poke resides in the fact that it is generic. It simply
generates a report. I believe that "report" could be turned into a
generic, interactive menu. Remember that there is a gnome AT tool called
gok, the gnome on screen keyboard. It's designed to accept input, where
gnopernicus is designed to deliver alternative output. Gok can take
input from all kinds of mechanisms, simple serial switch on up. And, it
handles them very intelligently. Unlike gnopernicus, it is a gnome
accessibility success already.
Kenny Hitt writes:
> Hi. Can you provide examples where writing a ncurses program to act as
> the interface to a Gnome app would be helpful? Based on my experience
> with Gnome, if the program provides the accessibility info, then it is
> accessible in Gnome. If it doesn't provide the accessibility info, I
> can't see how adding the extra layer of an ncurses app talking to a GTK
> app will help.
> I agree Gnome screen readers still need work, but wouldn't it be better
> to focus on improving them?
>
> Kenny
>
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 09:09:59PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Laura Eaves writes:
> > > Hi Janina --
> > > I tried sending this once before but it bounced due to message size...
> > > But as for gnome:
> > > That is interesting about the query capabilities of the gnome interface --
> > > but I disagree that implementing a full ncurses, text-only representation
> > > based on these queries is necessary, as that would just require a lot of
> > > useless code to do screen layout of text when graphical screen layout has
> > > already been done by gnome, right? Actually, some users don't know this, but
> > dGo
> >
> > I didn't say it was necessary. I said it was possible and that there are
> > good reasons to consider doing it that way, not the least of which being
> > that gnome is not very accessible, whereas the console is.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
--
Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
@ Dawes, Stephen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Dawes, Stephen @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
There is no mention of this service being disabled on the page I sent
the list.
Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.>
Management Systems Analyst
The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527
Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546
PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca
Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca
NOTICE -
This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
@ Dawes, Stephen
` Gregory Nowak
` Janina Sajka
0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Dawes, Stephen @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Jinina and all,
Don't forget about the service that Adobe provides that converts PDF to
either text or html formats.
If you come across a pdf file that you want to read on the Web, you
simply submit the url to the adobe conversion tool and it does the
conversion for you and then you can read it with your browser of choice.
The text solution requires you to email the pdf file to adobe's
conversion tool and they email you back the converted file almost
immediately.
So, you can already read PDF from linux if you need or so choose, to do
so.
The Adobe conversion tool and all you want to know about it can be found
at:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html
Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.>
Management Systems Analyst
The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527
Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546
PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca
Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca
NOTICE -
This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
Dawes, Stephen
@ ` Gregory Nowak
` Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
That's interesting, since I seem to recall that adobee suspended that
service a while back, due to the fact that acrobat reader 5 provides
accessibility. Of course, they did fail to mention that you had to
have a fairly recent windows screenreader for it to work (grrrr).
Greg
On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:21:43AM -0700, Dawes, Stephen wrote:
> Jinina and all,
>
> Don't forget about the service that Adobe provides that converts PDF to
> either text or html formats.
>
> If you come across a pdf file that you want to read on the Web, you
> simply submit the url to the adobe conversion tool and it does the
> conversion for you and then you can read it with your browser of choice.
> The text solution requires you to email the pdf file to adobe's
> conversion tool and they email you back the converted file almost
> immediately.
>
> So, you can already read PDF from linux if you need or so choose, to do
> so.
>
> The Adobe conversion tool and all you want to know about it can be found
> at:
> http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html
>
>
>
>
> Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.>
> Management Systems Analyst
> The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527
> Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546
> PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca
>
>
>
>
> NOTICE -
> This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> !DSPAM:41e2b9ea299913092664996!
>
>
- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Gregory Nowak
@ ` Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Laura Eaves @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf
accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a
similar update is being created for linux.
I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are used
there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA.
Or is the interface the same as MSAA?
Just curious.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
That's interesting, since I seem to recall that adobee suspended that
service a while back, due to the fact that acrobat reader 5 provides
accessibility. Of course, they did fail to mention that you had to
have a fairly recent windows screenreader for it to work (grrrr).
Greg
On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:21:43AM -0700, Dawes, Stephen wrote:
> Jinina and all,
>
> Don't forget about the service that Adobe provides that converts PDF to
> either text or html formats.
>
> If you come across a pdf file that you want to read on the Web, you
> simply submit the url to the adobe conversion tool and it does the
> conversion for you and then you can read it with your browser of choice.
> The text solution requires you to email the pdf file to adobe's
> conversion tool and they email you back the converted file almost
> immediately.
>
> So, you can already read PDF from linux if you need or so choose, to do
> so.
>
> The Adobe conversion tool and all you want to know about it can be found
> at:
> http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html
>
>
>
>
> Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.>
> Management Systems Analyst
> The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527
> Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546
> PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca
>
>
>
>
> NOTICE -
> This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity
> named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person
> responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended
> recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying
> of this communication or any of the information contained in it is
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
> please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this
> communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of
> Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> !DSPAM:41e2b9ea299913092664996!
>
>
- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Laura Eaves
@ ` Janina Sajka
` Laura Eaves
` Sean McMahon
` Gregory Nowak
2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
To learn about the "hooks," as you call them, consult the developer
pages at:
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/
Laura Eaves writes:
> Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf
> accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a
> similar update is being created for linux.
> I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are used
> there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA.
> Or is the interface the same as MSAA?
Definitely not MSAA. <shudder>
After all, that's Microsoft's proprietary property, right? Not open
source nor a free license at all.
> Just curious.
> --le
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Janina Sajka
@ ` Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Laura Eaves @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Hi -- thanks for the link -- I'll take a look -- but as for MSAA, the
library implementation is proprietary to Microsoft, but the interface is
not -- in fact the library is available for use in any windows app, whether
developed on linux or whatever. In fact I have heard firefox is using it
for its windows implementation. I guess what I was wondering is if the same
or at least similar object library interface might be appropriate for use
cross platform. Of course the underlying implementation would be different,
but the information passed to a screen reader -- say to recognize text boxes
and navigate controls on a GUI -- would be enough the same that the MSAA
interface could be used.
But now that I think of it, Microsoft I hear is going another direction with
respect to accessibility, so that MSAA may become obsolete for windows in a
a year or two. Ah the joys of competition... Perhaps they are thinking of
grabbing business away from the screen reader companies??? they deny it but
if they are removing MSAA I assume there is a reason.
Take care.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
To learn about the "hooks," as you call them, consult the developer
pages at:
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/
Laura Eaves writes:
> Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf
> accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a
> similar update is being created for linux.
> I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are
> used
> there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA.
> Or is the interface the same as MSAA?
Definitely not MSAA. <shudder>
After all, that's Microsoft's proprietary property, right? Not open
source nor a free license at all.
> Just curious.
> --le
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Laura Eaves
@ ` Janina Sajka
` Chris Gray
` Gregory Nowak
0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
I don't believe msaa is held in very high regard on gnome and kde. In
fact, MS is abandoning it with Longhorn.
Laura Eaves writes:
> Hi -- thanks for the link -- I'll take a look -- but as for MSAA, the
> library implementation is proprietary to Microsoft, but the interface is
> not -- in fact the library is available for use in any windows app, whether
> developed on linux or whatever. In fact I have heard firefox is using it
> for its windows implementation. I guess what I was wondering is if the same
> or at least similar object library interface might be appropriate for use
> cross platform. Of course the underlying implementation would be different,
> but the information passed to a screen reader -- say to recognize text boxes
> and navigate controls on a GUI -- would be enough the same that the MSAA
> interface could be used.
> But now that I think of it, Microsoft I hear is going another direction with
> respect to accessibility, so that MSAA may become obsolete for windows in a
> a year or two. Ah the joys of competition... Perhaps they are thinking of
> grabbing business away from the screen reader companies??? they deny it but
> if they are removing MSAA I assume there is a reason.
> Take care.
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 10:11 AM
> Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
>
>
> To learn about the "hooks," as you call them, consult the developer
> pages at:
>
> http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/
>
> Laura Eaves writes:
> > Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf
> > accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a
> > similar update is being created for linux.
> > I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are
> > used
> > there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA.
> > Or is the interface the same as MSAA?
>
>
> Definitely not MSAA. <shudder>
>
>
> After all, that's Microsoft's proprietary property, right? Not open
> source nor a free license at all.
>
> > Just curious.
> > --le
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
--
Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Janina Sajka
@ ` Chris Gray
` Janina Sajka
` Gregory Nowak
1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Chris Gray @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
At best, MSAA mode was little more than a bandage. Let's hope that
something more positive can come out of Longhorn. One of the primary
reasons I am setting up a Linux box is to check out Gnome; what I've
seen so far of its access is quite impressive though it has a ways to
go for certain.
Chris
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Chris Gray
@ ` Janina Sajka
` Laura Eaves
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Linux accessibility, at least for users who are blind, is far more
impressive on the console. In fact, it's extremely impressive on the
console rivaling, and even surpassing, many things that users of
expensive proprietary-ware applications have. The biggest thing wrong
with the console is in fact the very negative and dismissive attitude
that many GUI people seem to have of it.
Chris Gray writes:
> At best, MSAA mode was little more than a bandage. Let's hope that
> something more positive can come out of Longhorn. One of the primary
> reasons I am setting up a Linux box is to check out Gnome; what I've
> seen so far of its access is quite impressive though it has a ways to
> go for certain.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
--
Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Janina Sajka
@ ` Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
` Sean McMahon
0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Laura Eaves @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Yes, linux and unix have always been more accessible because they are not
GUI, and I assume the console is text based and not graphical -- or am I
wrong? the last time I used a unix/linux system was in the mid 90s and most
all work was done command-line. I have joined this list as I am getting a
second pc in order to install and use linux for various reasons, and I want
to check out all the accessibility advancements since I moved to a windows
environment.
But just as sighted linux users dismiss the console interface, as you say, I
think it is equally inappropriate for a blind user to completely ignore the
GNOME GUI approach, and trying to make it accessible, as running a GUI
actually is a little more than just a bunch of icons covering up the same
operations -- the whole underpinning is implemented in an even-driven manner
and there is a different way of thinking of things -- well actually I
rejected GUI's for a very long time at work because I still had enough sight
to use screen mag for work, and could not use the GUI stuff when it reared
its ugly head... but after I lost my reading vision and switched to
windows -- partly to get experienced using speech and partly because I was
curious about its accessibility, I have actually gotten to like some of its
aspects, and can see that if made accessible, it is actually rather nice.
But I still miss unix extremely, and the flexibility, and the power of
things and clean way it handles system operations compared with windows...
Sorry I didn't mean to get off on this thread -- I guess I just wanted to
make the point that I am glad for the diversion I made into GUI apps and am
actually glad (if you can believe it) that I lost my vision in order to
force me to stop depending on it, and with my programming background I think
GUI programs can be very useful and accessible.
But there has to be a way to access the same functionality from the gui --
to get back to command line when necessary, query for available commands and
docs, run scripts, etc. That is possible in windows but so much more
awkward! It is truely a straight jacket compared to linux.
Take care and I have enjoyed lurking on this list. I am learning a lot
about speakup, which is why I joined.
Take care.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
Linux accessibility, at least for users who are blind, is far more
impressive on the console. In fact, it's extremely impressive on the
console rivaling, and even surpassing, many things that users of
expensive proprietary-ware applications have. The biggest thing wrong
with the console is in fact the very negative and dismissive attitude
that many GUI people seem to have of it.
Chris Gray writes:
> At best, MSAA mode was little more than a bandage. Let's hope that
> something more positive can come out of Longhorn. One of the primary
> reasons I am setting up a Linux box is to check out Gnome; what I've
> seen so far of its access is quite impressive though it has a ways to
> go for certain.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
--
Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Laura Eaves
@ ` Janina Sajka
` Adam Myrow
` Sean McMahon
1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Laura, you're correct that the console interface is character based.
And, I also want to say that we're not ignoring Gnome. It just doesn't
do anything very useful yet.
On the other hand, since you're a programmer, let me comment that the
opportunity is there to make alternative interfaces for gnome apps,
given the object architecture that support accessibility. In other
words, it isn't necessarrily the gui which can provide access to a gnome
app. It is possible to querry all available objects on the gnome
desktop, or for a particular app, and obtain data, including text
labels, data values, etc. So, it is reasonable to consider that one
might, for instance, create an ncurses interface to gui applications. No
one has built such an interface to my knowledge, but the opportunity is
there. And there is a tool that exposes this data, though it does it
graphically and it is not itself accessible by design--in order to avoid
infinite regression. The tool is called at-poke.
I would love to see some apps from the gnome desktop made accessible
this way, while we wait for the gnome screen reader to become really
usable, because there is intrinsically no reason to paint the gui for
the user who can't appreciate it. In fact, it could be considered a
waste of resources so to do.
Laura Eaves writes:
> Yes, linux and unix have always been more accessible because they are not
> GUI, and I assume the console is text based and not graphical -- or am I
> wrong? the last time I used a unix/linux system was in the mid 90s and most
> all work was done command-line. I have joined this list as I am getting a
> second pc in order to install and use linux for various reasons, and I want
> to check out all the accessibility advancements since I moved to a windows
> environment.
> But just as sighted linux users dismiss the console interface, as you say, I
> think it is equally inappropriate for a blind user to completely ignore the
> GNOME GUI approach, and trying to make it accessible, as running a GUI
> actually is a little more than just a bunch of icons covering up the same
> operations -- the whole underpinning is implemented in an even-driven manner
> and there is a different way of thinking of things -- well actually I
> rejected GUI's for a very long time at work because I still had enough sight
> to use screen mag for work, and could not use the GUI stuff when it reared
> its ugly head... but after I lost my reading vision and switched to
> windows -- partly to get experienced using speech and partly because I was
> curious about its accessibility, I have actually gotten to like some of its
> aspects, and can see that if made accessible, it is actually rather nice.
> But I still miss unix extremely, and the flexibility, and the power of
> things and clean way it handles system operations compared with windows...
> Sorry I didn't mean to get off on this thread -- I guess I just wanted to
> make the point that I am glad for the diversion I made into GUI apps and am
> actually glad (if you can believe it) that I lost my vision in order to
> force me to stop depending on it, and with my programming background I think
> GUI programs can be very useful and accessible.
> But there has to be a way to access the same functionality from the gui --
> to get back to command line when necessary, query for available commands and
> docs, run scripts, etc. That is possible in windows but so much more
> awkward! It is truely a straight jacket compared to linux.
> Take care and I have enjoyed lurking on this list. I am learning a lot
> about speakup, which is why I joined.
> Take care.
> --le
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Janina Sajka
@ ` Adam Myrow
` Sean McMahon
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Adam Myrow @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, Janina Sajka wrote:
> It is possible to query all available objects on the gnome desktop, or
> for a particular app, and obtain data, including text labels, data
> values, etc. So, it is reasonable to consider that one might, for
> instance, create an ncurses interface to gui applications. No one has
> built such an interface to my knowledge, but the opportunity is there.
Actually, somebody has tried this. It is known as "cursing GTK." I
haven't tried it out, mainly because the person who was working on this
wasn't exactly fluent in English, and I couldn't comprehend exactly what
one would need to do to get it working. In any case, the web site for
this is at: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/cursed/cursed.html. As
I said, the English is pretty bad, but apparently, somebody with a lot of
patience might be able to make use of this.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Adam Myrow
@ ` Sean McMahon
0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Sean McMahon @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
This is something speakup could access?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Myrow" <amyrow@midsouth.rr.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, Janina Sajka wrote:
>
> > It is possible to query all available objects on the gnome desktop, or
> > for a particular app, and obtain data, including text labels, data
> > values, etc. So, it is reasonable to consider that one might, for
> > instance, create an ncurses interface to gui applications. No one has
> > built such an interface to my knowledge, but the opportunity is there.
>
> Actually, somebody has tried this. It is known as "cursing GTK." I
> haven't tried it out, mainly because the person who was working on this
> wasn't exactly fluent in English, and I couldn't comprehend exactly what
> one would need to do to get it working. In any case, the web site for
> this is at: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/cursed/cursed.html. As
> I said, the English is pretty bad, but apparently, somebody with a lot of
> patience might be able to make use of this.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
@ ` Sean McMahon
1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Sean McMahon @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
The linux command line sometimes works like a gui. Not everything is straight
type a command and hit enter to see what you get. Applications like emacs and
lynx have menus where you use arro keys and such to navigate. In the windows
world, the gui is better because it has more operations then the windows
console. Of course in linux things like multitasking, menu navigation for
certain programs, and using more and les to controll how much output you get on
a screen, give the console all of the power and some of the friendliness of the
gui.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@carolina.rr.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
> Yes, linux and unix have always been more accessible because they are not
> GUI, and I assume the console is text based and not graphical -- or am I
> wrong? the last time I used a unix/linux system was in the mid 90s and most
> all work was done command-line. I have joined this list as I am getting a
> second pc in order to install and use linux for various reasons, and I want
> to check out all the accessibility advancements since I moved to a windows
> environment.
> But just as sighted linux users dismiss the console interface, as you say, I
> think it is equally inappropriate for a blind user to completely ignore the
> GNOME GUI approach, and trying to make it accessible, as running a GUI
> actually is a little more than just a bunch of icons covering up the same
> operations -- the whole underpinning is implemented in an even-driven manner
> and there is a different way of thinking of things -- well actually I
> rejected GUI's for a very long time at work because I still had enough sight
> to use screen mag for work, and could not use the GUI stuff when it reared
> its ugly head... but after I lost my reading vision and switched to
> windows -- partly to get experienced using speech and partly because I was
> curious about its accessibility, I have actually gotten to like some of its
> aspects, and can see that if made accessible, it is actually rather nice.
> But I still miss unix extremely, and the flexibility, and the power of
> things and clean way it handles system operations compared with windows...
> Sorry I didn't mean to get off on this thread -- I guess I just wanted to
> make the point that I am glad for the diversion I made into GUI apps and am
> actually glad (if you can believe it) that I lost my vision in order to
> force me to stop depending on it, and with my programming background I think
> GUI programs can be very useful and accessible.
> But there has to be a way to access the same functionality from the gui --
> to get back to command line when necessary, query for available commands and
> docs, run scripts, etc. That is possible in windows but so much more
> awkward! It is truely a straight jacket compared to linux.
> Take care and I have enjoyed lurking on this list. I am learning a lot
> about speakup, which is why I joined.
> Take care.
> --le
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:58 PM
> Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
>
>
> Linux accessibility, at least for users who are blind, is far more
> impressive on the console. In fact, it's extremely impressive on the
> console rivaling, and even surpassing, many things that users of
> expensive proprietary-ware applications have. The biggest thing wrong
> with the console is in fact the very negative and dismissive attitude
> that many GUI people seem to have of it.
>
>
>
> Chris Gray writes:
> > At best, MSAA mode was little more than a bandage. Let's hope that
> > something more positive can come out of Longhorn. One of the primary
> > reasons I am setting up a Linux box is to check out Gnome; what I've
> > seen so far of its access is quite impressive though it has a ways to
> > go for certain.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
>
> Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
> janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
>
> If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Janina Sajka
` Chris Gray
@ ` Gregory Nowak
1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
I'm not surprised. Microsoft never stuck to their own, or
anyone else's standards for very long (snicker).
Greg
On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 12:32:13PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> I don't believe msaa is held in very high regard on gnome and kde. In
> fact, MS is abandoning it with Longhorn.
>
- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
@ ` Sean McMahon
` Gregory Nowak
2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Sean McMahon @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Someone stop me if I'm wrong. Gnome has it's own accessibility api. Actually
there's one for gtk+ created programs, one for java and one for mozilla. These
are of course free standards and have the potential to be more documented and
more accessible then those in windows. How well gnome works I think right now
is more of an oppinion from those who use it, I'm not going there yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@carolina.rr.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
> Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf
> accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a
> similar update is being created for linux.
> I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are used
> there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA.
> Or is the interface the same as MSAA?
> Just curious.
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> That's interesting, since I seem to recall that adobee suspended that
> service a while back, due to the fact that acrobat reader 5 provides
> accessibility. Of course, they did fail to mention that you had to
> have a fairly recent windows screenreader for it to work (grrrr).
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:21:43AM -0700, Dawes, Stephen wrote:
> > Jinina and all,
> >
> > Don't forget about the service that Adobe provides that converts PDF to
> > either text or html formats.
> >
> > If you come across a pdf file that you want to read on the Web, you
> > simply submit the url to the adobe conversion tool and it does the
> > conversion for you and then you can read it with your browser of choice.
> > The text solution requires you to email the pdf file to adobe's
> > conversion tool and they email you back the converted file almost
> > immediately.
> >
> > So, you can already read PDF from linux if you need or so choose, to do
> > so.
> >
> > The Adobe conversion tool and all you want to know about it can be found
> > at:
> > http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.>
> > Management Systems Analyst
> > The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527
> > Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546
> > PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca
> > Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > NOTICE -
> > This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity
> > named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally
> > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person
> > responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended
> > recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying
> > of this communication or any of the information contained in it is
> > strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
> > please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this
> > communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of
> > Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:41e2b9ea299913092664996!
> >
> >
>
> - --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
>
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> =WZ3f
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
` Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
` Sean McMahon
@ ` Gregory Nowak
2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Yes, I believe that jaws got into the acrobat reader accessibility
game a bit later then window-eyes did. Yes, I also realize this is getting
way off topic, so I'll stop now.
Greg
On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 12:48:34AM -0500, Laura Eaves wrote:
> Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf
> accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a
> similar update is being created for linux.
> I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are used
> there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA.
> Or is the interface the same as MSAA?
> Just curious.
> --le
>
- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
Dawes, Stephen
` Gregory Nowak
@ ` Janina Sajka
1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Yes, Stephen, it's good to remind people of the cgi interface to
pdftotext available at a web address.
Dawes, Stephen writes:
> Jinina and all,
>
> Don't forget about the service that Adobe provides that converts PDF to
> either text or html formats.
>
> If you come across a pdf file that you want to read on the Web, you
> simply submit the url to the adobe conversion tool and it does the
> conversion for you and then you can read it with your browser of choice.
> The text solution requires you to email the pdf file to adobe's
> conversion tool and they email you back the converted file almost
> immediately.
>
> So, you can already read PDF from linux if you need or so choose, to do
> so.
>
> The Adobe conversion tool and all you want to know about it can be found
> at:
> http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html
>
>
>
>
> Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.>
> Management Systems Analyst
> The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527
> Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546
> PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca
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--
Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux
@ Janina Sajka
0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup, blinux-list-bounces
Dear Friends:
Adobe Corporation has established a web page were one can apply for
early, beta program access to their next generation Adobe Reader for
Linux. This next edition will, according to Adobe, support accessibility
through the Gnome. The URL is:
https://adobe.centercode.com/callout/default.html?callid={4EE7B13E-2D84-4AF6-A27B-E8FD6C94A42F}
--
Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~ UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 23+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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Dawes, Stephen
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Janina Sajka
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