Servers and Tos

Servers and Tos

[Jes and guide dog Harley]

Well, the following text says it all right here:
The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
Subscriber agrees not
to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
enterprise.  Subscriber further
agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
applications that provide
similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including without limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
DHCP, or multi-user interactive
forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no... Am I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is running these applications.


Jes and Harley
Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com

Re: Servers and Tos

[Luke Davis]

No, actually all it says, is that you agree not to run those services, or
connect the modem to something which is.
So, if you do, you are in breach of contract, and the clauses respecting
that situation, will then apply, and may then be inforsed.

Luke


On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:

> Well, the following text says it all right here:
> The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> Subscriber agrees not
> to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> enterprise.  Subscriber further
> agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> applications that provide
> similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including without limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no... Am I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is running these applications.
>
>
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Servers and Tos

[Rejean Proulx]

This is typical Road Runner stuff.  You can't even have a router.  Not only
that, they block all kinds of mail including legitimate mail.  They are like
a truck driver who sensors mail.  Imagine if the postal truck came to your
house and said, you can't have that mail because it comes from John and
because there are 250 John's in jail, we block all mail from John.  That is
effectively what Road Runner does, so when I read their agreements, I'm not
surprised.  I like Road Runner.  Can you tell?

 Rejean Proulx
Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
Ham License VA3REJ

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:03 PM
Subject: Servers and Tos


> Well, the following text says it all right here:
> The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential
service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> Subscriber agrees not
> to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service
provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> enterprise.  Subscriber further
> agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the
Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> applications that provide
> similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including without
limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no... Am
I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is
running these applications.
>
>
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Servers and Tos

[Jes and guide dog Harley]

Well, a friend I know who has not been on this list has run a mail server under the road runner service for about 3 and a half
years and hasn't told them about it. He's also running an ftp server and so I'm sure, if I do break the agreement I won't be the
last one to do it.
Jes and Harley
Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Rejean Proulx <rejean@interfree.ca>
To: Jes and guide dog Harley <jesman598@triad.rr.com>; Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Servers and Tos


This is typical Road Runner stuff.  You can't even have a router.  Not only
that, they block all kinds of mail including legitimate mail.  They are like
a truck driver who sensors mail.  Imagine if the postal truck came to your
house and said, you can't have that mail because it comes from John and
because there are 250 John's in jail, we block all mail from John.  That is
effectively what Road Runner does, so when I read their agreements, I'm not
surprised.  I like Road Runner.  Can you tell?

 Rejean Proulx
Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
Ham License VA3REJ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:03 PM
Subject: Servers and Tos


> Well, the following text says it all right here:
> The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential
service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> Subscriber agrees not
> to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service
provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> enterprise.  Subscriber further
> agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the
Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> applications that provide
> similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including without
limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no... Am
I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is
running these applications.
>
>
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Servers and Tos

[Luke Davis]

Well, you asked us what we thought, and now you've got it.

You will of course do what ever you want to do ultimately anyway, but now
you have full knowledge of your contract breaching.  If you still think
it's worth it, there is no need to defend your decision here.
We've all done something like this at one time or another--I'd say it is
part of the groath process from consumer computer user, to pro.:)

Luke


On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:

> Well, a friend I know who has not been on this list has run a mail server under the road runner service for about 3 and a half
> years and hasn't told them about it. He's also running an ftp server and so I'm sure, if I do break the agreement I won't be the
> last one to do it.
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rejean Proulx <rejean@interfree.ca>
> To: Jes and guide dog Harley <jesman598@triad.rr.com>; Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Servers and Tos
>
>
> This is typical Road Runner stuff.  You can't even have a router.  Not only
> that, they block all kinds of mail including legitimate mail.  They are like
> a truck driver who sensors mail.  Imagine if the postal truck came to your
> house and said, you can't have that mail because it comes from John and
> because there are 250 John's in jail, we block all mail from John.  That is
> effectively what Road Runner does, so when I read their agreements, I'm not
> surprised.  I like Road Runner.  Can you tell?
>
>  Rejean Proulx
> Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
> MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
> Ham License VA3REJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:03 PM
> Subject: Servers and Tos
>
>
> > Well, the following text says it all right here:
> > The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential
> service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> > Subscriber agrees not
> > to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service
> provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> > enterprise.  Subscriber further
> > agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the
> Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> > applications that provide
> > similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including without
> limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> > DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> > forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no... Am
> I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> > you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is
> running these applications.
> >
> >
> > Jes and Harley
> > Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> > Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Servers and Tos

[Gregory Nowak]

Well, sounds like your friend is lucky that nobody has ratted on
him. You may not be the last person to break the agreement, but I
wouldn't be surprised if you broke the agreement, and found your
account terminated one day as a result.

As Luke said in another message, you know the rules, and you can do
whatever you want, but you don't need to defend your decision here.

Greg


On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:33:31PM -0500, Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:
> Well, a friend I know who has not been on this list has run a mail server under the road runner service for about 3 and a half
> years and hasn't told them about it. He's also running an ftp server and so I'm sure, if I do break the agreement I won't be the
> last one to do it.
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com

-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: Servers and Tos

[Rejean Proulx]

This is why, I mentioned that sometimes these should almost shouldn't be
discussed.  It is like discussing speeding in public where the cops might be
listening.  Then they learn where the speeders hang out and set up radar
traps.

 Rejean Proulx
Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
Ham License VA3REJ

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>; "Speakup is a
screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Servers and Tos


> Well, sounds like your friend is lucky that nobody has ratted on
> him. You may not be the last person to break the agreement, but I
> wouldn't be surprised if you broke the agreement, and found your
> account terminated one day as a result.
>
> As Luke said in another message, you know the rules, and you can do
> whatever you want, but you don't need to defend your decision here.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:33:31PM -0500, Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:
> > Well, a friend I know who has not been on this list has run a mail
server under the road runner service for about 3 and a half
> > years and hasn't told them about it. He's also running an ftp server and
so I'm sure, if I do break the agreement I won't be the
> > last one to do it.
> > Jes and Harley
> > Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> > Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
>
> -- 
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Servers and Tos

[Rejean Proulx]

So far, no one has been policing this much.  This could start happening as a
result of spammers.  that is really why spamming is so bad.  They are
causing everyone to lose function in that ports are going to be blocked like
25 and 110.  In fact I think sympatico is doing it already.

 Rejean Proulx
Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
Ham License VA3REJ

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: Servers and Tos


> Well, a friend I know who has not been on this list has run a mail server
under the road runner service for about 3 and a half
> years and hasn't told them about it. He's also running an ftp server and
so I'm sure, if I do break the agreement I won't be the
> last one to do it.
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rejean Proulx <rejean@interfree.ca>
> To: Jes and guide dog Harley <jesman598@triad.rr.com>; Speakup is a screen
review system for Linux. <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Servers and Tos
>
>
> This is typical Road Runner stuff.  You can't even have a router.  Not
only
> that, they block all kinds of mail including legitimate mail.  They are
like
> a truck driver who sensors mail.  Imagine if the postal truck came to your
> house and said, you can't have that mail because it comes from John and
> because there are 250 John's in jail, we block all mail from John.  That
is
> effectively what Road Runner does, so when I read their agreements, I'm
not
> surprised.  I like Road Runner.  Can you tell?
>
>  Rejean Proulx
> Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
> MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
> Ham License VA3REJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:03 PM
> Subject: Servers and Tos
>
>
> > Well, the following text says it all right here:
> > The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential
> service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> > Subscriber agrees not
> > to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service
> provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> > enterprise.  Subscriber further
> > agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the
> Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> > applications that provide
> > similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including
without
> limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> > DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> > forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no...
Am
> I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> > you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is
> running these applications.
> >
> >
> > Jes and Harley
> > Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> > Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: Servers and Tos

[Sina Bahram]

Yeh they say lots of things. But with all do respect people...it's
almost impossible for them to tell if you have a router, and speaking of
this; I didn't know that was even in their rules. Actually, they can
easily tell if you have a router, but then I can say; yes absolutely I
do, and it is serving as my firewall, which you guys explicitly state
that you do not support but allow. Therefore, they are a bunch of more
ons for thinking they can controll things, but also they are feeding of
people's common stupidity. I might have 5 to 20 computers running off my
cable modem account *smile* but the only way they are going to catch me
in this *obviously hypothetical example, of course* is to come into my
house, which even in the hypocritical legal system of today, is still
illegal without a warrant. So I wouldn't really worry about this whole
thing all that much.

Take care,
Sina

No trees were destroyed in sending this message. However, a large number
of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. 

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Rejean Proulx
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:23 PM
To: Jes and guide dog Harley; Speakup is a screen review system for
Linux.
Subject: Re: Servers and Tos


This is typical Road Runner stuff.  You can't even have a router.  Not
only that, they block all kinds of mail including legitimate mail.  They
are like a truck driver who sensors mail.  Imagine if the postal truck
came to your house and said, you can't have that mail because it comes
from John and because there are 250 John's in jail, we block all mail
from John.  That is effectively what Road Runner does, so when I read
their agreements, I'm not surprised.  I like Road Runner.  Can you tell?

 Rejean Proulx
Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
Ham License VA3REJ

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:03 PM
Subject: Servers and Tos


> Well, the following text says it all right here:
> The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a 
> residential
service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> Subscriber agrees not
> to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service
provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> enterprise.  Subscriber further
> agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the
Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> applications that provide
> similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including 
> without
limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no...

> Am
I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is
running these applications.
>
>
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Servers and Tos

[Richard Villa]

Well,

I actually run as many as four computers at a time on my router and have
been doing that for over a year.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@nc.rr.com>
To: "'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'"
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Servers and Tos


> Yeh they say lots of things. But with all do respect people...it's
> almost impossible for them to tell if you have a router, and speaking of
> this; I didn't know that was even in their rules. Actually, they can
> easily tell if you have a router, but then I can say; yes absolutely I
> do, and it is serving as my firewall, which you guys explicitly state
> that you do not support but allow. Therefore, they are a bunch of more
> ons for thinking they can controll things, but also they are feeding of
> people's common stupidity. I might have 5 to 20 computers running off my
> cable modem account *smile* but the only way they are going to catch me
> in this *obviously hypothetical example, of course* is to come into my
> house, which even in the hypocritical legal system of today, is still
> illegal without a warrant. So I wouldn't really worry about this whole
> thing all that much.
>
> Take care,
> Sina
>
> No trees were destroyed in sending this message. However, a large number
> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Rejean Proulx
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:23 PM
> To: Jes and guide dog Harley; Speakup is a screen review system for
> Linux.
> Subject: Re: Servers and Tos
>
>
> This is typical Road Runner stuff.  You can't even have a router.  Not
> only that, they block all kinds of mail including legitimate mail.  They
> are like a truck driver who sensors mail.  Imagine if the postal truck
> came to your house and said, you can't have that mail because it comes
> from John and because there are 250 John's in jail, we block all mail
> from John.  That is effectively what Road Runner does, so when I read
> their agreements, I'm not surprised.  I like Road Runner.  Can you tell?
>
>  Rejean Proulx
> Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
> MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
> Ham License VA3REJ
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:03 PM
> Subject: Servers and Tos
>
>
> > Well, the following text says it all right here:
> > The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a
> > residential
> service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> > Subscriber agrees not
> > to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service
> provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> > enterprise.  Subscriber further
> > agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the
> Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> > applications that provide
> > similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including
> > without
> limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> > DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> > forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no...
>
> > Am
> I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> > you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is
> running these applications.
> >
> >
> > Jes and Harley
> > Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> > Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Servers and Tos

[Gregory Nowak]

Depends on the ISP's policies.

Greg


On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:30:31PM -0600, Richard Villa wrote:
> Well,
> 
> I actually run as many as four computers at a time on my router and have
> been doing that for over a year.
> 

-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: Servers and Tos

[Richard Villa]

Well,

That's not quite right.  I have a router and the installer knew that when he
was here.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rejean Proulx" <rejean@interfree.ca>
To: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>; "Speakup is a
screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Servers and Tos


> This is typical Road Runner stuff.  You can't even have a router.  Not
only
> that, they block all kinds of mail including legitimate mail.  They are
like
> a truck driver who sensors mail.  Imagine if the postal truck came to your
> house and said, you can't have that mail because it comes from John and
> because there are 250 John's in jail, we block all mail from John.  That
is
> effectively what Road Runner does, so when I read their agreements, I'm
not
> surprised.  I like Road Runner.  Can you tell?
>
>  Rejean Proulx
> Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
> MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
> Ham License VA3REJ
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:03 PM
> Subject: Servers and Tos
>
>
> > Well, the following text says it all right here:
> > The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential
> service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> > Subscriber agrees not
> > to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service
> provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> > enterprise.  Subscriber further
> > agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the
> Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> > applications that provide
> > similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including
without
> limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> > DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> > forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no...
Am
> I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> > you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is
> running these applications.
> >
> >
> > Jes and Harley
> > Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> > Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Servers and Tos

[Joseph C. Lininger]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Strictly speaking, your not supposed to have routers. However, I
found that many of the company employees of these businesses don't
care. Guess it depends on who finds out.
- ---
Joseph C. Lininger
jbahm@pcdesk.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Villa" <villar@earthlink.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Servers and Tos


> Well,
> 
> That's not quite right.  I have a router and the installer knew
> that when he was here.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rejean Proulx" <rejean@interfree.ca>
> To: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>; "Speakup
> is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Servers and Tos
> 
> 
> > This is typical Road Runner stuff.  You can't even have a router.
> >  Not 
> only
> > that, they block all kinds of mail including legitimate mail. 
> > They are 
> like
> > a truck driver who sensors mail.  Imagine if the postal truck
> > came to your house and said, you can't have that mail because it
> > comes from John and because there are 250 John's in jail, we
> > block all mail from John.  That 
> is
> > effectively what Road Runner does, so when I read their
> > agreements, I'm 
> not
> > surprised.  I like Road Runner.  Can you tell?
> >
> >  Rejean Proulx
> > Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
> > MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
> > Ham License VA3REJ
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:03 PM
> > Subject: Servers and Tos
> >
> >
> > > Well, the following text says it all right here:
> > > The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a
> > > residential 
> > service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> > > Subscriber agrees not
> > > to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet
> > > service 
> > provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> > > enterprise.  Subscriber further
> > > agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other
> > > than the 
> > Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> > > applications that provide
> > > similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service),
> > > including 
> without
> > limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> > > DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> > > forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer
> > > is no... 
> Am
> > I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> > > you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer
> > > that is 
> > running these applications.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jes and Harley
> > > Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> > > Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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d8aAfYoFw1yqACTUaSQDwg+g
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Re: Servers and Tos

[Alex Snow]

my isp says you gotta pay an extra $10 a month if you want to use a 
router. so I just hide it when a 'tech' (if you can call them techs) 
comes here.
come to mention it I don't think anyone of them have the intelegence 
to recognise a router.
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:22:52PM -0500, Rejean 
Proulx wrote:
> This is typical Road Runner stuff.  You can't even have a router.  Not only
> that, they block all kinds of mail including legitimate mail.  They are like
> a truck driver who sensors mail.  Imagine if the postal truck came to your
> house and said, you can't have that mail because it comes from John and
> because there are 250 John's in jail, we block all mail from John.  That is
> effectively what Road Runner does, so when I read their agreements, I'm not
> surprised.  I like Road Runner.  Can you tell?
> 
>  Rejean Proulx
> Visit my family at http://interfree.ca
> MSN is: rejp@rogers.com
> Ham License VA3REJ
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:03 PM
> Subject: Servers and Tos
> 
> 
> > Well, the following text says it all right here:
> > The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential
> service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> > Subscriber agrees not
> > to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service
> provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> > enterprise.  Subscriber further
> > agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the
> Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> > applications that provide
> > similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including without
> limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> > DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> > forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no... Am
> I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> > you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is
> running these applications.
> >
> >
> > Jes and Harley
> > Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> > Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Servers and Tos

[Gregory Nowak]

That sounds like a very loud and clear no to me, so either drop it, or
switch ISPs.

Greg


On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:03:03PM -0500, Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:
> Well, the following text says it all right here:
> The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> Subscriber agrees not
> to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> enterprise.  Subscriber further
> agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> applications that provide
> similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including without limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no... Am I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is running these applications.
> 
> 
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: Servers and Tos

[Joseph C. Lininger]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sure looks to me like they're saying no servers, especially not for
business applicaitons.
- ---
Joseph C. Lininger
jbahm@pcdesk.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:03 PM
Subject: Servers and Tos


> Well, the following text says it all right here:
> The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a
> residential service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> Subscriber agrees not
> to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service
> provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> enterprise.  Subscriber further
> agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than
> the Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> applications that provide
> similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including
> without limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC, DHCP,
> or multi-user interactive
> forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is
> no... Am I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that
> is running these applications.  
> 
> 
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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Re: Servers and Tos

[Alex Snow]

though I know someone who's running a pretty high volume ftp server on 
rr and they don't seem to give a flying fuck. and thi persion has had 
it up for at least a year.
It's not the terms that's the question it's whether they inforce them 
or not.
On 
Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:03:03PM -0500, Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:
> Well, the following text says it all right here:
> The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> Subscriber agrees not
> to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> enterprise.  Subscriber further
> agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> applications that provide
> similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including without limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no... Am I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is running these applications.
> 
> 
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Servers and Tos

[Vortek, Eater Of Souls!]

Hey all,
Just to set your fears at rest...
I used to use roadrunner before moving and needing to switch cable providers.
I ran http, ftp, smtp/pop3, and irc servers on my roadrunner line, and no one even noticed.
no port scan, no phone calls asking why my traffic volume was so high, nothing... :)
although, to warn you, that was in Minneapolis, MN, and where ever you are may actually enforce those rules, as each subprovider is
different.
My provider was time warner cable, other companies that lease the roadrunner service/name may actually have measures in place to stop
people from running servers.
and, I totally agree, any ISP that gives you lightening fast speeds, and doesn't think your going to run servers is totally moronic,
and to enforce that, is beyond moronic, and totally unfair.
so, if they do blow the whistle, I'd also suggest finding another provider.
Sorry for the long message everyone. :)


Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:

> Well, the following text says it all right here:
> The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> Subscriber agrees not
> to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> enterprise.  Subscriber further
> agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> applications that provide
> similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including without limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no... Am I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is running these applications.
>
> Jes and Harley
> Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Servers and Tos

[Alex Snow]

that other person I was talking about who runs ftp and stuff was also 
in miniaplis MN (excuse the poor spelling).
On 
Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 12:12:24AM -0600, Vortek, Eater Of Souls! wrote:
> Hey all,
> Just to set your fears at rest...
> I used to use roadrunner before moving and needing to switch cable providers.
> I ran http, ftp, smtp/pop3, and irc servers on my roadrunner line, and no one even noticed.
> no port scan, no phone calls asking why my traffic volume was so high, nothing... :)
> although, to warn you, that was in Minneapolis, MN, and where ever you are may actually enforce those rules, as each subprovider is
> different.
> My provider was time warner cable, other companies that lease the roadrunner service/name may actually have measures in place to stop
> people from running servers.
> and, I totally agree, any ISP that gives you lightening fast speeds, and doesn't think your going to run servers is totally moronic,
> and to enforce that, is beyond moronic, and totally unfair.
> so, if they do blow the whistle, I'd also suggest finding another provider.
> Sorry for the long message everyone. :)
> 
> 
> Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:
> 
> > Well, the following text says it all right here:
> > The Road Runner Service as offered under this Agreement is a residential service offered for personal, non-commercial use only.
> > Subscriber agrees not
> > to use the Road Runner Service for operation as an internet service provider, for the hosting of websites or for any business
> > enterprise.  Subscriber further
> > agrees not to connect the cable modem to any computer other than the Computer(s) or to any server (or any computer running server
> > applications that provide
> > similar protocol services over the Road Runner Service), including without limitation any servers for mail, HTTP, FTP, RTP, IRC,
> > DHCP, or multi-user interactive
> > forums (e.g. gaming). So, unless I miss my guess, this answer is no... Am I right or wrong on this? All the thing says is that
> > you're not suipposed to hook up the cable modem to a computer that is running these applications.
> >
> > Jes and Harley
> > Email: jesman598@triad.rr.com
> > Msn instant messenger: subman70@hotmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Servers and Tos

[Jes and guide dog Harley]

Vordic, parden the misspelling, I appreciate your email. I don't think any provider  really gives a flip if those of us using
broad band connections offer our own services to the internet or not, and if they do then they shouldn't. What do you think high
speed connections could be better used for than to run servers? (That's a retorical question.)
Jes

Re: Servers and Tos

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 12:12:24AM -0600, Vortek, Eater Of Souls! wrote:
> and, I totally agree, any ISP that gives you lightening fast speeds, and doesn't think your going to run servers is totally moronic,
> and to enforce that, is beyond moronic, and totally unfair.

If you would have said that about dsl, I would totally agree with
you. However, you need to keep in mind the differences between dsl and
cable connections. Yes, they both give you fast speeds, but they don't
work the same way, just as a car and train can get you somewhere fast,
but there are differences of course between how a car and train work.

So, when cable ISPs don't allow their users to run servers, I can
totally see where the ISP is coming from.

Greg



-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: Servers and Tos

[Shaun Oliver]

at the risk of being helpful, Gregory Nowak delivered up the following on Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 11:02:18AM -0600, 
> > and, I totally agree, any ISP that gives you lightening fast speeds, and doesn't think your going to run servers is totally moronic,
> > and to enforce that, is beyond moronic, and totally unfair.
> 
> If you would have said that about dsl, I would totally agree with
> you. However, you need to keep in mind the differences between dsl and
> cable connections. Yes, they both give you fast speeds, but they don't
> work the same way, just as a car and train can get you somewhere fast,
> but there are differences of course between how a car and train work.
> 
> So, when cable ISPs don't allow their users to run servers, I can
> totally see where the ISP is coming from.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> 

Ok, with your cable provider, if I'm not mistaken, you're sharing that
bandwidth with others on your subnet.
wihch is more than likely those in the same suburb as you with cable
connection as well.
the isp isn't going to give this bandwidth up freely because they don't
just pay for a monthly block. they're paying for every little bit of
bandwidth you use up and if you're going to sit there with a home
service and run wtf you like on it, you're a fool.
you know the tos, you know the consequences of your actions.

think for starters about the people that have to share that bandwidth
with you. if you're always hogging it, your isp is well within their
rights to cut you off and take any action they deme appropriate as set
forth in the tos.

think about what you're doing and if you want to run servers, be
prepared to pay for the bandwidth and I mean per megabyte not this
monthly block business.



-- 
Shaun Oliver


"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman

Re: Servers and Tos

[Gregory Nowak]

That's what I was getting at, I think you and Alex summarized things
pretty well. On the other end of the spectrum, dsl is a direct and
dedicated connection between you and your ISP (well, your phone
company's dslam actually), and there is nobody else between you and
your ISP.

Greg


On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 04:16:24AM +1100, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> at the risk of being helpful, Gregory Nowak delivered up the following on Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 11:02:18AM -0600, 
> > > and, I totally agree, any ISP that gives you lightening fast speeds, and doesn't think your going to run servers is totally moronic,
> > > and to enforce that, is beyond moronic, and totally unfair.
> > 
> > If you would have said that about dsl, I would totally agree with
> > you. However, you need to keep in mind the differences between dsl and
> > cable connections. Yes, they both give you fast speeds, but they don't
> > work the same way, just as a car and train can get you somewhere fast,
> > but there are differences of course between how a car and train work.
> > 
> > So, when cable ISPs don't allow their users to run servers, I can
> > totally see where the ISP is coming from.
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Ok, with your cable provider, if I'm not mistaken, you're sharing that
> bandwidth with others on your subnet.
> wihch is more than likely those in the same suburb as you with cable
> connection as well.
> the isp isn't going to give this bandwidth up freely because they don't
> just pay for a monthly block. they're paying for every little bit of
> bandwidth you use up and if you're going to sit there with a home
> service and run wtf you like on it, you're a fool.
> you know the tos, you know the consequences of your actions.
> 
> think for starters about the people that have to share that bandwidth
> with you. if you're always hogging it, your isp is well within their
> rights to cut you off and take any action they deme appropriate as set
> forth in the tos.
> 
> think about what you're doing and if you want to run servers, be
> prepared to pay for the bandwidth and I mean per megabyte not this
> monthly block business.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> 
> 
> "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
> email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/
> IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> IRCNICK: blindman
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: Servers and Tos

[Shaun Oliver]

even with dsl greg you're limited by the tos, and in alot of cases it
boils down to if you want servers and shit u pay the $$$ for them.

-- 
Shaun Oliver


"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman

Re: Servers and Tos

[Alex Snow]

speakeasy looks like a good provider to use if you're gonna run 
servers. they seem to not only allow that stuff but support it also. 
and their prices aren't that outragious eitheer. $60 a month gives you 
5 static ip's and 8 emails and they let you run servers.
On Sun, Dec 07, 
2003 at 05:13:59AM +1100, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> even with dsl greg you're limited by the tos, and in alot of cases it
> boils down to if you want servers and shit u pay the $$$ for them.
> 
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> 
> 
> "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
> email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/
> IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> IRCNICK: blindman
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Servers and Tos

[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, but not everybody wants 5 static ips, and 8 email accounts (especially if you're doing your own email), and I think their early termination fee is outrageous, compared to other isps.

Greg


On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 01:27:54PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> speakeasy looks like a good provider to use if you're gonna run 
> servers. they seem to not only allow that stuff but support it also. 
> and their prices aren't that outragious eitheer. $60 a month gives you 
> 5 static ip's and 8 emails and they let you run servers.

-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: Servers and Tos

[Alex Snow]

yeah the 8 emails is a bit much but I'm sure I could find something to 
do with the 5 static ip's...
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 02:16:05PM -0600, 
Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Yes, but not everybody wants 5 static ips, and 8 email accounts (especially if you're doing your own email), and I think their early termination fee is outrageous, compared to other isps.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 01:27:54PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > speakeasy looks like a good provider to use if you're gonna run 
> > servers. they seem to not only allow that stuff but support it also. 
> > and their prices aren't that outragious eitheer. $60 a month gives you 
> > 5 static ip's and 8 emails and they let you run servers.
> 
> -- 
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Servers and Tos

[Gregory Nowak]

That's why you should do your homework when picking an ISP, if you want to have a dsl connection, and be able to run a server.

Greg


On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 05:13:59AM +1100, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> even with dsl greg you're limited by the tos, and in alot of cases it
> boils down to if you want servers and shit u pay the $$$ for them.
> 
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> 
> 
> "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
> email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/
> IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> IRCNICK: blindman
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

RE: Servers and Tos

[Sina Bahram]

Yes, but I've generally found it to be about 20kb/s slower than cable on
uploads. And around a few hundred kb/s slower than cable on downloads.

Take care,
Sina

No trees were destroyed in sending this message. However, a large number
of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. 

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Gregory Nowak
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 1:06 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Servers and Tos


That's what I was getting at, I think you and Alex summarized things
pretty well. On the other end of the spectrum, dsl is a direct and
dedicated connection between you and your ISP (well, your phone
company's dslam actually), and there is nobody else between you and your
ISP.

Greg


On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 04:16:24AM +1100, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> at the risk of being helpful, Gregory Nowak delivered up the following

> on Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 11:02:18AM -0600,
> > > and, I totally agree, any ISP that gives you lightening fast 
> > > speeds, and doesn't think your going to run servers is totally 
> > > moronic, and to enforce that, is beyond moronic, and totally 
> > > unfair.
> > 
> > If you would have said that about dsl, I would totally agree with 
> > you. However, you need to keep in mind the differences between dsl 
> > and cable connections. Yes, they both give you fast speeds, but they

> > don't work the same way, just as a car and train can get you 
> > somewhere fast, but there are differences of course between how a 
> > car and train work.
> > 
> > So, when cable ISPs don't allow their users to run servers, I can 
> > totally see where the ISP is coming from.
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Ok, with your cable provider, if I'm not mistaken, you're sharing that

> bandwidth with others on your subnet. wihch is more than likely those 
> in the same suburb as you with cable connection as well.
> the isp isn't going to give this bandwidth up freely because they
don't
> just pay for a monthly block. they're paying for every little bit of
> bandwidth you use up and if you're going to sit there with a home
> service and run wtf you like on it, you're a fool.
> you know the tos, you know the consequences of your actions.
> 
> think for starters about the people that have to share that bandwidth 
> with you. if you're always hogging it, your isp is well within their 
> rights to cut you off and take any action they deme appropriate as set

> forth in the tos.
> 
> think about what you're doing and if you want to run servers, be 
> prepared to pay for the bandwidth and I mean per megabyte not this 
> monthly block business.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Shaun Oliver
> 
> 
> "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
> email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/
> IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> IRCNICK: blindman
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Servers and Tos

[Richard Villa]

No, DSL service involves routers and usually has you sharing one somewhere
before you get to your ISP.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Servers and Tos


> That's what I was getting at, I think you and Alex summarized things
> pretty well. On the other end of the spectrum, dsl is a direct and
> dedicated connection between you and your ISP (well, your phone
> company's dslam actually), and there is nobody else between you and
> your ISP.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 04:16:24AM +1100, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> > at the risk of being helpful, Gregory Nowak delivered up the following
on Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 11:02:18AM -0600,
> > > > and, I totally agree, any ISP that gives you lightening fast speeds,
and doesn't think your going to run servers is totally moronic,
> > > > and to enforce that, is beyond moronic, and totally unfair.
> > >
> > > If you would have said that about dsl, I would totally agree with
> > > you. However, you need to keep in mind the differences between dsl and
> > > cable connections. Yes, they both give you fast speeds, but they don't
> > > work the same way, just as a car and train can get you somewhere fast,
> > > but there are differences of course between how a car and train work.
> > >
> > > So, when cable ISPs don't allow their users to run servers, I can
> > > totally see where the ISP is coming from.
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Ok, with your cable provider, if I'm not mistaken, you're sharing that
> > bandwidth with others on your subnet.
> > wihch is more than likely those in the same suburb as you with cable
> > connection as well.
> > the isp isn't going to give this bandwidth up freely because they don't
> > just pay for a monthly block. they're paying for every little bit of
> > bandwidth you use up and if you're going to sit there with a home
> > service and run wtf you like on it, you're a fool.
> > you know the tos, you know the consequences of your actions.
> >
> > think for starters about the people that have to share that bandwidth
> > with you. if you're always hogging it, your isp is well within their
> > rights to cut you off and take any action they deme appropriate as set
> > forth in the tos.
> >
> > think about what you're doing and if you want to run servers, be
> > prepared to pay for the bandwidth and I mean per megabyte not this
> > monthly block business.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Shaun Oliver
> >
> >
> > "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
> > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/
> > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > IRCNICK: blindman
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Servers and Tos

[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, for the pppoe part or what have you at least. What I was talking
about though is the actual connection which goes from your telephone
NID box, pretty much directly to the phone company's DSLAM at the
other end (there is no other user on that phone line between you and
the CSO). As far as I know, this is not the case with cable, where
everyone in your neighborhood shares your connection, until it gets to
the main trunk.

Greg


On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 08:24:54PM -0600, Richard Villa wrote:
> No, DSL service involves routers and usually has you sharing one somewhere
> before you get to your ISP.
> 

-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: Servers and Tos

[Sean McMahon]

www.dslreports.com carries some good info on the differences between cable
and dsl.  I'd like to know where some of you people are that you get a
choice of cable and dsl providers.  In podunc arizona, you have one cable
line provider and assentially one home dsl line provider.  Your isp can
depend on who is offering the service.  In my case, my home connection runns
through a different isp then the dsl line provider.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: "Richard Villa" <villar@earthlink.net>; "Speakup is a screen review
system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Servers and Tos


> Yes, for the pppoe part or what have you at least. What I was talking
> about though is the actual connection which goes from your telephone
> NID box, pretty much directly to the phone company's DSLAM at the
> other end (there is no other user on that phone line between you and
> the CSO). As far as I know, this is not the case with cable, where
> everyone in your neighborhood shares your connection, until it gets to
> the main trunk.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 08:24:54PM -0600, Richard Villa wrote:
> > No, DSL service involves routers and usually has you sharing one
somewhere
> > before you get to your ISP.
> >
>
> -- 
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Servers and Tos

[Alex Snow]

I cant even get dsl here. I'm too far away from the telco.
the only cable privider in the area is charter. I've looked around for 
something a little better but something like that doesnt exist in this 
area.
I used to have a great site with all these angry letters about how 
dcharter sucks. It was quite interesting.
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 
10:40:51AM -0700, Sean McMahon wrote:
> www.dslreports.com carries some good info on the differences between cable
> and dsl.  I'd like to know where some of you people are that you get a
> choice of cable and dsl providers.  In podunc arizona, you have one cable
> line provider and assentially one home dsl line provider.  Your isp can
> depend on who is offering the service.  In my case, my home connection runns
> through a different isp then the dsl line provider.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
> To: "Richard Villa" <villar@earthlink.net>; "Speakup is a screen review
> system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Servers and Tos
> 
> 
> > Yes, for the pppoe part or what have you at least. What I was talking
> > about though is the actual connection which goes from your telephone
> > NID box, pretty much directly to the phone company's DSLAM at the
> > other end (there is no other user on that phone line between you and
> > the CSO). As far as I know, this is not the case with cable, where
> > everyone in your neighborhood shares your connection, until it gets to
> > the main trunk.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 08:24:54PM -0600, Richard Villa wrote:
> > > No, DSL service involves routers and usually has you sharing one
> somewhere
> > > before you get to your ISP.
> > >
> >
> > -- 
> > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Servers and Tos

[Steve Holmes]

I live up here in Tempe where I just switched from Sprint Broadband to
Cox Cable High Speed Internet merely to save a little on the monthly
charge.  Sprint would compare to mid speed DSL but Cox supposedly has
higher speeds.  I just signed up so haven't really measured
performance as a whole yet.  But yes, there is no real competition in
many areas - even in the city here in Arizona for high speed internet
service.  Example: my phone does not qualify for any kind of DSL
because of distance factors so all DSL options are off the table for
me. And there is no competition at all in the cable business.

On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 10:40:51AM -0700, Sean McMahon wrote:
> www.dslreports.com carries some good info on the differences between cable
> and dsl.  I'd like to know where some of you people are that you get a
> choice of cable and dsl providers.  In podunc arizona, you have one cable
> line provider and assentially one home dsl line provider.  Your isp can
> depend on who is offering the service.  In my case, my home connection runns
> through a different isp then the dsl line provider.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
> To: "Richard Villa" <villar@earthlink.net>; "Speakup is a screen review
> system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Servers and Tos
> 
> 
> > Yes, for the pppoe part or what have you at least. What I was talking
> > about though is the actual connection which goes from your telephone
> > NID box, pretty much directly to the phone company's DSLAM at the
> > other end (there is no other user on that phone line between you and
> > the CSO). As far as I know, this is not the case with cable, where
> > everyone in your neighborhood shares your connection, until it gets to
> > the main trunk.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 08:24:54PM -0600, Richard Villa wrote:
> > > No, DSL service involves routers and usually has you sharing one
> somewhere
> > > before you get to your ISP.
> > >
> >
> > -- 
> > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

-- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://ld.net/?holmesgrown

Re: Servers and Tos

[Alex Snow]

yeah well don't multiple cable users share an 'node'? so if someone's 
using a shitload of bandwidth the others can notice slowness? I don't 
notice this bc I think I'm one of the few people if any others on my 
particular node.

so if my idea of how cable works is right then I can kind of see why 
they wont let you run servers. bc you'll use that node's upstream and 
the other lusers will complain. that's not saying I agree...
On Sat, Dec 
06, 2003 at 11:02:18AM -0600, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 12:12:24AM -0600, Vortek, Eater Of Souls! wrote:
> > and, I totally agree, any ISP that gives you lightening fast speeds, and doesn't think your going to run servers is totally moronic,
> > and to enforce that, is beyond moronic, and totally unfair.
> 
> If you would have said that about dsl, I would totally agree with
> you. However, you need to keep in mind the differences between dsl and
> cable connections. Yes, they both give you fast speeds, but they don't
> work the same way, just as a car and train can get you somewhere fast,
> but there are differences of course between how a car and train work.
> 
> So, when cable ISPs don't allow their users to run servers, I can
> totally see where the ISP is coming from.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Servers and Tos

[Shaun Oliver]

at the risk of being helpful, Alex Snow delivered up the following on Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 12:19:41PM -0500, 
> yeah well don't multiple cable users share an 'node'?


yes they do. and there's my point errgo, bandwidth.
I don't agree with it either. don't get me wrong, but I'll do wtf my isp
tells me I'm allowed to do, I might push the boundries but I'll stay
within the guidelines,



-- 
Shaun Oliver


"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman

Re: Servers and Tos

[Vortek, Eater Of Souls!]

yes, that's assuming that the cable company allows their users to share
their total bandwidth...which roadrunner doesn't.
They cap you at...well, when I had it it was 1.5mbps down, and 384kbps
up.
yes, I know a lot of other cable companies allow their users to suck
every last bit of speed that is available on their main lines, but rr
doesn't, and therefore, if they try and enforce something like a policy
on running servers, I don't see where they'd be coming from.
if a company allowed you to use all available bandwidth, then I could
understand, but very few cable companies do that any
more...unfortunately. :)

Apollo and fedora

[Darragh]

Hello,
I'm going to give Fedora another shot.  If it is the cause of my partitions
going nuts a few days ago, it's going in the bin but for now its the best
option I have.

When I run the installation, do I type speakup_synth=APOLO or modprobe
speakup_apollo?

last time I hadn't a speaking installation.

Will I still ahve to install the speakup modified kernel with the fix for
the apollo?

I've re-downloaded the images yesterday.

Re: Apollo and fedora

[Janina Sajka]

Follow the installation HOWTO for Red Hat 9. The only critical
difference is that you should kill first bioot before rebooting by
switching to console #2 when the installer says it's OK to reboot and
doing:

cd /mnt/sysimage 

I may have not spelled sysimage correctly, check that ...

chroot .

and lastly:

chkconfig --level 0123456 firstboot off


Darragh writes:
> From: "Darragh" <lists@digitaldarragh.com>
> 
> Hello,
> I'm going to give Fedora another shot.  If it is the cause of my partitions
> going nuts a few days ago, it's going in the bin but for now its the best
> option I have.
> 
> When I run the installation, do I type speakup_synth=APOLO or modprobe
> speakup_apollo?
> 
> last time I hadn't a speaking installation.
> 
> Will I still ahve to install the speakup modified kernel with the fix for
> the apollo?
> 
> I've re-downloaded the images yesterday.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: Apollo and fedora

[Darragh]

Thanks.

will do that this evening


Darragh
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
      Why do we spend more time troubleshooting our systems than actually
using them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: Apollo and fedora


> Follow the installation HOWTO for Red Hat 9. The only critical
> difference is that you should kill first bioot before rebooting by
> switching to console #2 when the installer says it's OK to reboot and
> doing:
>
> cd /mnt/sysimage
>
> I may have not spelled sysimage correctly, check that ...
>
> chroot .
>
> and lastly:
>
> chkconfig --level 0123456 firstboot off
>
>
> Darragh writes:
> > From: "Darragh" <lists@digitaldarragh.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> > I'm going to give Fedora another shot.  If it is the cause of my
partitions
> > going nuts a few days ago, it's going in the bin but for now its the
best
> > option I have.
> >
> > When I run the installation, do I type speakup_synth=APOLO or modprobe
> > speakup_apollo?
> >
> > last time I hadn't a speaking installation.
> >
> > Will I still ahve to install the speakup modified kernel with the fix
for
> > the apollo?
> >
> > I've re-downloaded the images yesterday.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://accessibility.freestandards.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Apollo and fedora

[Janina Sajka]

One more thing I forgot ...

You may need to path chkconfig, so the full command becomes:

/sbin/chkconfig --level 0123456 firstboot off

Darragh writes:lso, ifyou fail to do this before rebooting, all is not
lost, but you will need to go into single user mode to issue this
command, and that's slightly tricky as you have no independent way to
know when your 10 second (or so) window of opportunity appears from the
grub boot loader.

> From: "Darragh" <lists@digitaldarragh.com>
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> will do that this evening
> 
> 
> Darragh
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>       Why do we spend more time troubleshooting our systems than actually
> using them?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 1:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Apollo and fedora
> 
> 
> > Follow the installation HOWTO for Red Hat 9. The only critical
> > difference is that you should kill first bioot before rebooting by
> > switching to console #2 when the installer says it's OK to reboot and
> > doing:
> >
> > cd /mnt/sysimage
> >
> > I may have not spelled sysimage correctly, check that ...
> >
> > chroot .
> >
> > and lastly:
> >
> > chkconfig --level 0123456 firstboot off
> >
> >
> > Darragh writes:
> > > From: "Darragh" <lists@digitaldarragh.com>
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > I'm going to give Fedora another shot.  If it is the cause of my
> partitions
> > > going nuts a few days ago, it's going in the bin but for now its the
> best
> > > option I have.
> > >
> > > When I run the installation, do I type speakup_synth=APOLO or modprobe
> > > speakup_apollo?
> > >
> > > last time I hadn't a speaking installation.
> > >
> > > Will I still ahve to install the speakup modified kernel with the fix
> for
> > > the apollo?
> > >
> > > I've re-downloaded the images yesterday.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > http://www.afb.org
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > Free Standards Group
> > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: Apollo and fedora

[Darragh]

I didn't have to do this the last time, what exactly is this doing?  I
assume its just changing the run level back to the command line?

Darragh
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
      Why do we spend more time troubleshooting our systems than actually
using them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Apollo and fedora


> One more thing I forgot ...
>
> You may need to path chkconfig, so the full command becomes:
>
> /sbin/chkconfig --level 0123456 firstboot off
>
> Darragh writes:lso, ifyou fail to do this before rebooting, all is not
> lost, but you will need to go into single user mode to issue this
> command, and that's slightly tricky as you have no independent way to
> know when your 10 second (or so) window of opportunity appears from the
> grub boot loader.
>
> > From: "Darragh" <lists@digitaldarragh.com>
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > will do that this evening
> >
> >
> > Darragh
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >       Why do we spend more time troubleshooting our systems than
actually
> > using them?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 1:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: Apollo and fedora
> >
> >
> > > Follow the installation HOWTO for Red Hat 9. The only critical
> > > difference is that you should kill first bioot before rebooting by
> > > switching to console #2 when the installer says it's OK to reboot and
> > > doing:
> > >
> > > cd /mnt/sysimage
> > >
> > > I may have not spelled sysimage correctly, check that ...
> > >
> > > chroot .
> > >
> > > and lastly:
> > >
> > > chkconfig --level 0123456 firstboot off
> > >
> > >
> > > Darragh writes:
> > > > From: "Darragh" <lists@digitaldarragh.com>
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > > I'm going to give Fedora another shot.  If it is the cause of my
> > partitions
> > > > going nuts a few days ago, it's going in the bin but for now its the
> > best
> > > > option I have.
> > > >
> > > > When I run the installation, do I type speakup_synth=APOLO or
modprobe
> > > > speakup_apollo?
> > > >
> > > > last time I hadn't a speaking installation.
> > > >
> > > > Will I still ahve to install the speakup modified kernel with the
fix
> > for
> > > > the apollo?
> > > >
> > > > I've re-downloaded the images yesterday.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka
> > > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > http://www.afb.org
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > > Free Standards Group
> > > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://accessibility.freestandards.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Apollo and fedora

[Jacob Schmude]

Hi
Well, technically speaking, you don't have to do this, but it is a good 
idea to do so. Firstboot is a first-time configuration tool that pops up 
when you first boot your fedora system. However, this tool is entirely 
x-based, so its value to us as blind users right now is marginal, at best. 
I've not yet checked to see if, in fact, gnopernicus would provide us 
access to this but I'm enclined to doubt it. If you don't disable this, 
you're going to be pushing the enter key lots of times just to get to a 
login prompt.
This does not, however, stop the system from coming up in X, to do that you 
need to edit /etc/inittab and find the line saying:
id:5:initdefault
and change it to
id:3:initdefault
You can do this right after you've disabled firstboot. It would be nice if 
they actually asked this during install, I mean, if you use the text mode 
install then isn't there a possibility that you'd want text mode when you 
rebooted?
HTH
At 09:07 12/7/2003, you wrote:
>I didn't have to do this the last time, what exactly is this doing?  I
>assume its just changing the run level back to the command line?

Re: Apollo and fedora

[Janina Sajka]

You're clouding my advice here, and I think you're wrong to do so. So,
let me cut to the chase ...

What is the blkind person to do when firstboot launches?

You are wrong when you say it's an X app, because you don't have
recourse to Ctrl-Alt-F1, as you would if the full X login were launched.

So, how does the blind person handle it? You've got a graphical screen,
and no way to get out of it.


Jacob Schmude writes:
> From: Jacob Schmude <jschmude@adelphia.net>
> 
> Hi
> Well, technically speaking, you don't have to do this, but it is a good 
> idea to do so. Firstboot is a first-time configuration tool that pops up 
> when you first boot your fedora system. However, this tool is entirely 
> x-based, so its value to us as blind users right now is marginal, at best. 
> I've not yet checked to see if, in fact, gnopernicus would provide us 
> access to this but I'm enclined to doubt it. If you don't disable this, 
> you're going to be pushing the enter key lots of times just to get to a 
> login prompt.
> This does not, however, stop the system from coming up in X, to do that you 
> need to edit /etc/inittab and find the line saying:
> id:5:initdefault
> and change it to
> id:3:initdefault
> You can do this right after you've disabled firstboot. It would be nice if 
> they actually asked this during install, I mean, if you use the text mode 
> install then isn't there a possibility that you'd want text mode when you 
> rebooted?
> HTH
> At 09:07 12/7/2003, you wrote:
> >I didn't have to do this the last time, what exactly is this doing?  I
> >assume its just changing the run level back to the command line?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: Apollo and fedora

[Janina Sajka]

You're clouding my advice here, and I think you're wrong to do so. So,
let me cut to the chase ...

What is the blind person to do when firstboot launches?

You are wrong when you say it's an X app, because one doeswn't have
recourse to Ctrl-Alt-F1, as one would if the full X login were launched.

So, how does the blind person handle it? You've got a graphical screen,
and no way to get out of it.


Jacob Schmude writes:
> From: Jacob Schmude <jschmude@adelphia.net>
> 
> Hi
> Well, technically speaking, you don't have to do this, but it is a good 
> idea to do so. Firstboot is a first-time configuration tool that pops up 
> when you first boot your fedora system. However, this tool is entirely 
> x-based, so its value to us as blind users right now is marginal, at best. 
> I've not yet checked to see if, in fact, gnopernicus would provide us 
> access to this but I'm enclined to doubt it. If you don't disable this, 
> you're going to be pushing the enter key lots of times just to get to a 
> login prompt.
> This does not, however, stop the system from coming up in X, to do that you 
> need to edit /etc/inittab and find the line saying:
> id:5:initdefault
> and change it to
> id:3:initdefault
> You can do this right after you've disabled firstboot. It would be nice if 
> they actually asked this during install, I mean, if you use the text mode 
> install then isn't there a possibility that you'd want text mode when you 
> rebooted?
> HTH
> At 09:07 12/7/2003, you wrote:
> >I didn't have to do this the last time, what exactly is this doing?  I
> >assume its just changing the run level back to the command line?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: Servers and Tos

[Alex Snow]

if you want uncapped bandwidth you need a business plan. charter has 
an uncapped plan but they charge you through the ass for it.
they did rais the cap on their residential services to 2 mb down for 
the time being but they still block ports. even If they didn't block 
them I'd still run servers. they're too stupid to find them and they 
probably don't even no what a server is. or even a computer
On 
Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 01:26:27PM -0600, Vortek, Eater Of Souls! wrote:
> yes, that's assuming that the cable company allows their users to share
> their total bandwidth...which roadrunner doesn't.
> They cap you at...well, when I had it it was 1.5mbps down, and 384kbps
> up.
> yes, I know a lot of other cable companies allow their users to suck
> every last bit of speed that is available on their main lines, but rr
> doesn't, and therefore, if they try and enforce something like a policy
> on running servers, I don't see where they'd be coming from.
> if a company allowed you to use all available bandwidth, then I could
> understand, but very few cable companies do that any
> more...unfortunately. :)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Servers and Tos

[igueths]

I have to agree with you there Allex. I mean all a cable isp really knows
is Cable TV. If you are really paranoid about an isp finding your services
encrypt all your traffic so they can't prove a thing. Use 2048-bit SSL on
an Ircd or something. Sometimes one has to sacrifice speed for security...

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Alex Snow alex_snow@gmx.net
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 19:29:55 -0500
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: Servers and Tos


if you want uncapped bandwidth you need a business plan. charter has 
an uncapped plan but they charge you through the ass for it.
they did rais the cap on their residential services to 2 mb down for 
the time being but they still block ports. even If they didn't block 
them I'd still run servers. they're too stupid to find them and they 
probably don't even no what a server is. or even a computer
On 
Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 01:26:27PM -0600, Vortek, Eater Of Souls! wrote:
> yes, that's assuming that the cable company allows their users to share
> their total bandwidth...which roadrunner doesn't.
> They cap you at...well, when I had it it was 1.5mbps down, and 384kbps
> up.
> yes, I know a lot of other cable companies allow their users to suck
> every last bit of speed that is available on their main lines, but rr
> doesn't, and therefore, if they try and enforce something like a policy
> on running servers, I don't see where they'd be coming from.
> if a company allowed you to use all available bandwidth, then I could
> understand, but very few cable companies do that any
> more...unfortunately. :)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.


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