RE: installation of suse linux

RE: installation of suse linux

[Darragh]

Cody, 

The only way you'll be able to do an independent installation of OpenSuSE, Sles or Sled is via SSH. 

When you get OpenSuSE installed, You'll struggle against the accessibility of YaST, the system tool and package manager and even in Gnome, you'll find the weirdest and most stupid bugs because although they have some great developers in ovell, they just don't have the resources for Accessibility.  However, one good thing they have done is employe one person to work on accessibility full time.  Marco Scambrax is his name and he's a very intelligent developer.  He's unfortunately fighting against the rest of the company so his efferts do not reflect the end result. 

There are two versions of YaST.  The GTK+ and the NGurses versions.  Speakup will work to a reasonable degree in the text based version but it's not great.  Mainly because there are a lot of different controls for it to handle. 

In the graphical version, they've really come on in leaps and bounds over the last few years thanks to the GTK+ version released in 10.3 however they've a very long way to come.  The GTK+ version was not tested well with accessibility so I've ofund dozens of errors in it that are all reported in bugzilla.  Some of these have been fixed and distributed to 10.3 via online update however a lot have been pushed forward to 11.  

Speaking of Eleven, OpenSuSE has a lot to live up to so one of the first things I'll do is run it through it's paces but although I'm optimistic, in reality, I know that there will still be a lot of problems. 


Sorry I cant be more positive.  



Darragh
www.digitaldarragh.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> Sent: 26 May 2008 19:16
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: installation of suse linux
> 
> Hello list,
> 
>    Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course, towards
> the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing the
> install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd set he
> had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were loading
> braille modules.
> 
>    I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and when
> trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only option
> is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be included
> relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not be just
> for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS in the
> field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these individuals.
> 
>    Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can do
> otherwise if this is not possible.
> 
> Cody
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: installation of suse linux

[Cody Hurst]

Darragh,

I'm unsure what version of Suse we are going to be using, but I will  
guess suse enterprise. Does speakup/ssh still hold true for use  
enterprise? Does speakup come precompiled into suse? If you would, and  
i know this is a lot to answer, but can you give me a rundown of what  
I will have to do in order to start installing. I mean, boot commands,  
key presses, etc. I'm probably just going to tell my teacher I will  
need another machine to do this on. In real life, this will be on a  
real box, not vmware, which is my biggest nightmare for next year.  
I've never really took a liking to Novell anyway because of its  
techniques and layout. I find it extremely complex and confusing. I am  
going to be taking a Novell OES exam on Friday and that course wasn't  
pleasant to do. I do think Novell needs to use these other foundations  
and projects as mentors for accessibility but I can't make water into  
wine, so my guess is that I will not be seeing accessibility soon.

Can you perhaps give me a little insight on what in the world blinux  
is all about. Should I just give up on even trying to learn or use it?  
I've written 2 emails to the blinux list, and have not even once goten  
a response you can google my emails and you will find that I have no  
gotten any responses.

However, I think my tech instructor would benefit from this  
information, since you would know more than I have, which these issues.

If I may ask, why did you choose Novell as a place to be hired?

Thanks for all the help you can give, and I will be in touch with him.
On May 26, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Darragh wrote:

> Cody,
>
> The only way you'll be able to do an independent installation of  
> OpenSuSE, Sles or Sled is via SSH.
>
> When you get OpenSuSE installed, You'll struggle against the  
> accessibility of YaST, the system tool and package manager and even  
> in Gnome, you'll find the weirdest and most stupid bugs because  
> although they have some great developers in ovell, they just don't  
> have the resources for Accessibility.  However, one good thing they  
> have done is employe one person to work on accessibility full time.   
> Marco Scambrax is his name and he's a very intelligent developer.   
> He's unfortunately fighting against the rest of the company so his  
> efferts do not reflect the end result.
>
> There are two versions of YaST.  The GTK+ and the NGurses versions.   
> Speakup will work to a reasonable degree in the text based version  
> but it's not great.  Mainly because there are a lot of different  
> controls for it to handle.
>
> In the graphical version, they've really come on in leaps and bounds  
> over the last few years thanks to the GTK+ version released in 10.3  
> however they've a very long way to come.  The GTK+ version was not  
> tested well with accessibility so I've ofund dozens of errors in it  
> that are all reported in bugzilla.  Some of these have been fixed  
> and distributed to 10.3 via online update however a lot have been  
> pushed forward to 11.
>
> Speaking of Eleven, OpenSuSE has a lot to live up to so one of the  
> first things I'll do is run it through it's paces but although I'm  
> optimistic, in reality, I know that there will still be a lot of  
> problems.
>
>
> Sorry I cant be more positive.
>
>
>
> Darragh
> www.digitaldarragh.com
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>> Sent: 26 May 2008 19:16
>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>> Subject: installation of suse linux
>>
>> Hello list,
>>
>>   Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course, towards
>> the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing the
>> install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd set he
>> had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were loading
>> braille modules.
>>
>>   I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and when
>> trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only option
>> is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be included
>> relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not be just
>> for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS in the
>> field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these individuals.
>>
>>   Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can do
>> otherwise if this is not possible.
>>
>> Cody
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: installation of suse linux

[Darragh]

Hay Cody, 

There's a few questions to get to there. 

Firstly, Blinux in OpenSuSE is under the project SBL.  This is managed by Marco Scambrax.  This primarily focuses on Braille however he's done some good work on incorporating speech into a lot of the SBL functions however getting it installed isn't the easiest thing in theworld to do.  Wll, not that it's difficult, but the documentation is very hard to come by if it even exists at all! This is certainly no reflection on Marco and the reasons for this were outlined in my previous mail. 

Speakup does not come with any of the OpenSuSE distributions or their variants.  However,  have written some instructions for getting Speakup compiled into the OpenSuSE kernel at www.digitaldarragh.com/linuxat.asp Look for the link on that page somewhere. 

If you have one of the supported Braille displays, SBL will work very nicely for you right from the start of installation however you'll need to a lot of searching to find out what they ar.  You could also search for contact details for Marco Scambrax and contact him directly.  He's always very helpful.  There's is also an SBL mailing list but it's very low traffic.  

Take a look at http://lists.opensuse.org You'll find a lot of discussion lists there.  

Bryen, one of the users and community members that is very active around the lists has been pushing accessibility a lot for version 11  I think his email address is suserocks@bryen.com or bryen@suserocks.com or something like that.  Again.  A bit of googling will help you out there. Sorry I'm kind of vague.  Writing this before running out the door to work. 

Key presses.  Well, from memory, ....... na.  I'll have to go through an installation and write them out for you.  I should get time in a week or two if that's ok for you. 
It's reasonably straight forward though.  At the boot prompt, the first option is boot from hard disk, the second is start install, the third is start install with safe options and I cant remember what the rest ar.  Go down one to start install, press enter then try using the alt and alt b buttons to move to the next and prior screens.  

I don't choose a place to work based on it's accessibility instead I try to bend my self or the accessibility to suit the work.  
I try to aim to want to do something then work on a way to do it instead of finding something to do that is possible with the  limitations of the assistive technology I have available. 

Make sense? 


Darragh
www.digitaldarragh.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> Sent: 27 May 2008 22:16
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
> 
> Darragh,
> 
> I'm unsure what version of Suse we are going to be using, but I will
> guess suse enterprise. Does speakup/ssh still hold true for use
> enterprise? Does speakup come precompiled into suse? If you would, and
> i know this is a lot to answer, but can you give me a rundown of what
> I will have to do in order to start installing. I mean, boot commands,
> key presses, etc. I'm probably just going to tell my teacher I will
> need another machine to do this on. In real life, this will be on a
> real box, not vmware, which is my biggest nightmare for next year.
> I've never really took a liking to Novell anyway because of its
> techniques and layout. I find it extremely complex and confusing. I am
> going to be taking a Novell OES exam on Friday and that course wasn't
> pleasant to do. I do think Novell needs to use these other foundations
> and projects as mentors for accessibility but I can't make water into
> wine, so my guess is that I will not be seeing accessibility soon.
> 
> Can you perhaps give me a little insight on what in the world blinux
> is all about. Should I just give up on even trying to learn or use it?
> I've written 2 emails to the blinux list, and have not even once goten
> a response you can google my emails and you will find that I have no
> gotten any responses.
> 
> However, I think my tech instructor would benefit from this
> information, since you would know more than I have, which these issues.
> 
> If I may ask, why did you choose Novell as a place to be hired?
> 
> Thanks for all the help you can give, and I will be in touch with him.
> On May 26, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Darragh wrote:
> 
> > Cody,
> >
> > The only way you'll be able to do an independent installation of
> > OpenSuSE, Sles or Sled is via SSH.
> >
> > When you get OpenSuSE installed, You'll struggle against the
> > accessibility of YaST, the system tool and package manager and even
> > in Gnome, you'll find the weirdest and most stupid bugs because
> > although they have some great developers in ovell, they just don't
> > have the resources for Accessibility.  However, one good thing they
> > have done is employe one person to work on accessibility full time.
> > Marco Scambrax is his name and he's a very intelligent developer.
> > He's unfortunately fighting against the rest of the company so his
> > efferts do not reflect the end result.
> >
> > There are two versions of YaST.  The GTK+ and the NGurses versions.
> > Speakup will work to a reasonable degree in the text based version
> > but it's not great.  Mainly because there are a lot of different
> > controls for it to handle.
> >
> > In the graphical version, they've really come on in leaps and bounds
> > over the last few years thanks to the GTK+ version released in 10.3
> > however they've a very long way to come.  The GTK+ version was not
> > tested well with accessibility so I've ofund dozens of errors in it
> > that are all reported in bugzilla.  Some of these have been fixed
> > and distributed to 10.3 via online update however a lot have been
> > pushed forward to 11.
> >
> > Speaking of Eleven, OpenSuSE has a lot to live up to so one of the
> > first things I'll do is run it through it's paces but although I'm
> > optimistic, in reality, I know that there will still be a lot of
> > problems.
> >
> >
> > Sorry I cant be more positive.
> >
> >
> >
> > Darragh
> > www.digitaldarragh.com
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
> >> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> >> Sent: 26 May 2008 19:16
> >> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> >> Subject: installation of suse linux
> >>
> >> Hello list,
> >>
> >>   Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course, towards
> >> the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing the
> >> install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd set he
> >> had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were loading
> >> braille modules.
> >>
> >>   I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and when
> >> trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only option
> >> is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be included
> >> relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not be just
> >> for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS in the
> >> field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these
> individuals.
> >>
> >>   Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can do
> >> otherwise if this is not possible.
> >>
> >> Cody
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: installation of suse linux

[Kristoffer Gustafsson]

Hello!
What is supported, and what features does suse blinux have these days?
I've not tried it for a long time.
/Kristoffer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cody Hurst" <churst35@verizon.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: installation of suse linux


> Hey Darragh,
>
>   I understand your wanting to work and improve accessibility and not 
> live within your means, but right now for me and Novell, I am not  having 
> a very fun time, beeing as I am taking a timed course 2 days  until my 
> netware oes exam. It looks as though I will be renting a  braille display 
> to run suse..my braillenote was not detected  automatically. That is fine, 
> whenever you get a chance to seek more  information for me, it's greatly 
> appreciated. I just have had no luck  with any feedback and google hasn't 
> been helpful much either, but now  I will email marco to see if he can be 
> of some use in my findings. I  am not a programmer but I certainly envy 
> those who are. Math has never  been my strong point so I will try to use 
> what I have available to me.  If you know, will sbl work even after suse 
> is installed?
>
> Thanks for all help
> Cody
> On May 27, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Darragh wrote:
>
>> Hay Cody,
>>
>> There's a few questions to get to there.
>>
>> Firstly, Blinux in OpenSuSE is under the project SBL.  This is  managed 
>> by Marco Scambrax.  This primarily focuses on Braille  however he's done 
>> some good work on incorporating speech into a lot  of the SBL functions 
>> however getting it installed isn't the easiest  thing in theworld to do. 
>> Wll, not that it's difficult, but the  documentation is very hard to come 
>> by if it even exists at all! This  is certainly no reflection on Marco 
>> and the reasons for this were  outlined in my previous mail.
>>
>> Speakup does not come with any of the OpenSuSE distributions or  their 
>> variants.  However,  have written some instructions for  getting Speakup 
>> compiled into the OpenSuSE kernel at www.digitaldarragh.com/linuxat.asp 
>> Look for the link on that page somewhere.
>>
>> If you have one of the supported Braille displays, SBL will work  very 
>> nicely for you right from the start of installation however  you'll need 
>> to a lot of searching to find out what they ar.  You  could also search 
>> for contact details for Marco Scambrax and contact  him directly.  He's 
>> always very helpful.  There's is also an SBL  mailing list but it's very 
>> low traffic.
>>
>> Take a look at http://lists.opensuse.org You'll find a lot of  discussion 
>> lists there.
>>
>> Bryen, one of the users and community members that is very active  around 
>> the lists has been pushing accessibility a lot for version  11  I think 
>> his email address is suserocks@bryen.com or bryen@suserocks.com or 
>> something like that.  Again.  A bit of googling will help you  out there. 
>> Sorry I'm kind of vague.  Writing this before running out  the door to 
>> work.
>>
>> Key presses.  Well, from memory, ....... na.  I'll have to go  through an 
>> installation and write them out for you.  I should get  time in a week or 
>> two if that's ok for you.
>> It's reasonably straight forward though.  At the boot prompt, the  first 
>> option is boot from hard disk, the second is start install,  the third is 
>> start install with safe options and I cant remember  what the rest ar. 
>> Go down one to start install, press enter then  try using the alt and alt 
>> b buttons to move to the next and prior  screens.
>>
>> I don't choose a place to work based on it's accessibility instead I  try 
>> to bend my self or the accessibility to suit the work.
>> I try to aim to want to do something then work on a way to do it  instead 
>> of finding something to do that is possible with the   limitations of the 
>> assistive technology I have available.
>>
>> Make sense?
>>
>>
>> Darragh
>> www.digitaldarragh.com
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>>> Sent: 27 May 2008 22:16
>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
>>>
>>> Darragh,
>>>
>>> I'm unsure what version of Suse we are going to be using, but I will
>>> guess suse enterprise. Does speakup/ssh still hold true for use
>>> enterprise? Does speakup come precompiled into suse? If you would,  and
>>> i know this is a lot to answer, but can you give me a rundown of what
>>> I will have to do in order to start installing. I mean, boot  commands,
>>> key presses, etc. I'm probably just going to tell my teacher I will
>>> need another machine to do this on. In real life, this will be on a
>>> real box, not vmware, which is my biggest nightmare for next year.
>>> I've never really took a liking to Novell anyway because of its
>>> techniques and layout. I find it extremely complex and confusing. I  am
>>> going to be taking a Novell OES exam on Friday and that course wasn't
>>> pleasant to do. I do think Novell needs to use these other  foundations
>>> and projects as mentors for accessibility but I can't make water into
>>> wine, so my guess is that I will not be seeing accessibility soon.
>>>
>>> Can you perhaps give me a little insight on what in the world blinux
>>> is all about. Should I just give up on even trying to learn or use  it?
>>> I've written 2 emails to the blinux list, and have not even once  goten
>>> a response you can google my emails and you will find that I have no
>>> gotten any responses.
>>>
>>> However, I think my tech instructor would benefit from this
>>> information, since you would know more than I have, which these  issues.
>>>
>>> If I may ask, why did you choose Novell as a place to be hired?
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the help you can give, and I will be in touch with  him.
>>> On May 26, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Darragh wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cody,
>>>>
>>>> The only way you'll be able to do an independent installation of
>>>> OpenSuSE, Sles or Sled is via SSH.
>>>>
>>>> When you get OpenSuSE installed, You'll struggle against the
>>>> accessibility of YaST, the system tool and package manager and even
>>>> in Gnome, you'll find the weirdest and most stupid bugs because
>>>> although they have some great developers in ovell, they just don't
>>>> have the resources for Accessibility.  However, one good thing they
>>>> have done is employe one person to work on accessibility full time.
>>>> Marco Scambrax is his name and he's a very intelligent developer.
>>>> He's unfortunately fighting against the rest of the company so his
>>>> efferts do not reflect the end result.
>>>>
>>>> There are two versions of YaST.  The GTK+ and the NGurses versions.
>>>> Speakup will work to a reasonable degree in the text based version
>>>> but it's not great.  Mainly because there are a lot of different
>>>> controls for it to handle.
>>>>
>>>> In the graphical version, they've really come on in leaps and bounds
>>>> over the last few years thanks to the GTK+ version released in 10.3
>>>> however they've a very long way to come.  The GTK+ version was not
>>>> tested well with accessibility so I've ofund dozens of errors in it
>>>> that are all reported in bugzilla.  Some of these have been fixed
>>>> and distributed to 10.3 via online update however a lot have been
>>>> pushed forward to 11.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of Eleven, OpenSuSE has a lot to live up to so one of the
>>>> first things I'll do is run it through it's paces but although I'm
>>>> optimistic, in reality, I know that there will still be a lot of
>>>> problems.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry I cant be more positive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Darragh
>>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>>>>> Sent: 26 May 2008 19:16
>>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>>>> Subject: installation of suse linux
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello list,
>>>>>
>>>>>  Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course, towards
>>>>> the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing the
>>>>> install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd set he
>>>>> had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were loading
>>>>> braille modules.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and when
>>>>> trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only  option
>>>>> is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be included
>>>>> relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not be  just
>>>>> for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS in  the
>>>>> field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these
>>> individuals.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can do
>>>>> otherwise if this is not possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cody
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re: installation of suse linux

[Kristoffer Gustafsson]

Hello!
When I used suse linux, yast and yast2 worked well with suse blinux, but 
when I tried it with brltty. no, not good at all.
I've got an old computer still with suse linux 7.2 installed, but can't use 
it, I've lost that braille display I used with it.
Now these days I prefer debian, I don't want to go back to suse again, I 
think.
/Kristoffer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cody Hurst" <churst35@verizon.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: installation of suse linux


> Suse is intended to be a professional desktop operating system, or so  I 
> thought it was anyay. I personally would never use it, because of  its 
> resemblance to MS Windows0. I am taking this course next year  because it 
> is a requirement to graduate my school. Suse has a funky  package manager 
> called yast, which is another reason I choose never to  use suse. Novell 
> is extremely bad, and is putting it nicely, about  accessibility. It was a 
> struggle going through my novell netware course.
>
> HTH
> Cody
> On May 28, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>> What is supported, and what features does suse blinux have these days?
>> I've not tried it for a long time.
>> /Kristoffer
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cody Hurst" <churst35@verizon.net>
>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." 
>> <speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> >
>> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
>>
>>
>>> Hey Darragh,
>>>
>>>  I understand your wanting to work and improve accessibility and  not 
>>> live within your means, but right now for me and Novell, I am  not 
>>> having a very fun time, beeing as I am taking a timed course 2  days 
>>> until my netware oes exam. It looks as though I will be  renting a 
>>> braille display to run suse..my braillenote was not  detected 
>>> automatically. That is fine, whenever you get a chance to  seek more 
>>> information for me, it's greatly appreciated. I just  have had no luck 
>>> with any feedback and google hasn't been helpful  much either, but now 
>>> I will email marco to see if he can be of  some use in my findings. I 
>>> am not a programmer but I certainly  envy those who are. Math has never 
>>> been my strong point so I will  try to use what I have available to me. 
>>> If you know, will sbl work  even after suse is installed?
>>>
>>> Thanks for all help
>>> Cody
>>> On May 27, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Darragh wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hay Cody,
>>>>
>>>> There's a few questions to get to there.
>>>>
>>>> Firstly, Blinux in OpenSuSE is under the project SBL.  This is 
>>>> managed by Marco Scambrax.  This primarily focuses on Braille   however 
>>>> he's done some good work on incorporating speech into a  lot  of the 
>>>> SBL functions however getting it installed isn't the  easiest  thing in 
>>>> theworld to do. Wll, not that it's difficult,  but the  documentation 
>>>> is very hard to come by if it even exists  at all! This  is certainly 
>>>> no reflection on Marco and the reasons  for this were  outlined in my 
>>>> previous mail.
>>>>
>>>> Speakup does not come with any of the OpenSuSE distributions or   their 
>>>> variants.  However,  have written some instructions for   getting 
>>>> Speakup compiled into the OpenSuSE kernel at 
>>>> www.digitaldarragh.com/linuxat.asp Look for the link on that page 
>>>> somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> If you have one of the supported Braille displays, SBL will work   very 
>>>> nicely for you right from the start of installation however   you'll 
>>>> need to a lot of searching to find out what they ar.  You   could also 
>>>> search for contact details for Marco Scambrax and  contact  him 
>>>> directly.  He's always very helpful.  There's is also  an SBL  mailing 
>>>> list but it's very low traffic.
>>>>
>>>> Take a look at http://lists.opensuse.org You'll find a lot of 
>>>> discussion lists there.
>>>>
>>>> Bryen, one of the users and community members that is very active 
>>>> around the lists has been pushing accessibility a lot for version   11 
>>>> I think his email address is suserocks@bryen.com or bryen@suserocks.com 
>>>> or something like that.  Again.  A bit of googling will help you   out 
>>>> there. Sorry I'm kind of vague.  Writing this before running  out  the 
>>>> door to work.
>>>>
>>>> Key presses.  Well, from memory, ....... na.  I'll have to go   through 
>>>> an installation and write them out for you.  I should get   time in a 
>>>> week or two if that's ok for you.
>>>> It's reasonably straight forward though.  At the boot prompt, the 
>>>> first option is boot from hard disk, the second is start install,   the 
>>>> third is start install with safe options and I cant remember   what the 
>>>> rest ar. Go down one to start install, press enter then   try using the 
>>>> alt and alt b buttons to move to the next and prior   screens.
>>>>
>>>> I don't choose a place to work based on it's accessibility instead  I 
>>>> try to bend my self or the accessibility to suit the work.
>>>> I try to aim to want to do something then work on a way to do it 
>>>> instead of finding something to do that is possible with the 
>>>> limitations of the assistive technology I have available.
>>>>
>>>> Make sense?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Darragh
>>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>>>>> Sent: 27 May 2008 22:16
>>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>>>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
>>>>>
>>>>> Darragh,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm unsure what version of Suse we are going to be using, but I  will
>>>>> guess suse enterprise. Does speakup/ssh still hold true for use
>>>>> enterprise? Does speakup come precompiled into suse? If you  would, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> i know this is a lot to answer, but can you give me a rundown of  what
>>>>> I will have to do in order to start installing. I mean, boot 
>>>>> commands,
>>>>> key presses, etc. I'm probably just going to tell my teacher I will
>>>>> need another machine to do this on. In real life, this will be on a
>>>>> real box, not vmware, which is my biggest nightmare for next year.
>>>>> I've never really took a liking to Novell anyway because of its
>>>>> techniques and layout. I find it extremely complex and confusing.  I 
>>>>> am
>>>>> going to be taking a Novell OES exam on Friday and that course  wasn't
>>>>> pleasant to do. I do think Novell needs to use these other 
>>>>> foundations
>>>>> and projects as mentors for accessibility but I can't make water  into
>>>>> wine, so my guess is that I will not be seeing accessibility soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you perhaps give me a little insight on what in the world  blinux
>>>>> is all about. Should I just give up on even trying to learn or  use 
>>>>> it?
>>>>> I've written 2 emails to the blinux list, and have not even once 
>>>>> goten
>>>>> a response you can google my emails and you will find that I have  no
>>>>> gotten any responses.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I think my tech instructor would benefit from this
>>>>> information, since you would know more than I have, which these 
>>>>> issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I may ask, why did you choose Novell as a place to be hired?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for all the help you can give, and I will be in touch  with 
>>>>> him.
>>>>> On May 26, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Darragh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cody,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only way you'll be able to do an independent installation of
>>>>>> OpenSuSE, Sles or Sled is via SSH.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you get OpenSuSE installed, You'll struggle against the
>>>>>> accessibility of YaST, the system tool and package manager and  even
>>>>>> in Gnome, you'll find the weirdest and most stupid bugs because
>>>>>> although they have some great developers in ovell, they just don't
>>>>>> have the resources for Accessibility.  However, one good thing  they
>>>>>> have done is employe one person to work on accessibility full  time.
>>>>>> Marco Scambrax is his name and he's a very intelligent developer.
>>>>>> He's unfortunately fighting against the rest of the company so his
>>>>>> efferts do not reflect the end result.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are two versions of YaST.  The GTK+ and the NGurses  versions.
>>>>>> Speakup will work to a reasonable degree in the text based version
>>>>>> but it's not great.  Mainly because there are a lot of different
>>>>>> controls for it to handle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the graphical version, they've really come on in leaps and  bounds
>>>>>> over the last few years thanks to the GTK+ version released in  10.3
>>>>>> however they've a very long way to come.  The GTK+ version was not
>>>>>> tested well with accessibility so I've ofund dozens of errors in  it
>>>>>> that are all reported in bugzilla.  Some of these have been fixed
>>>>>> and distributed to 10.3 via online update however a lot have been
>>>>>> pushed forward to 11.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking of Eleven, OpenSuSE has a lot to live up to so one of the
>>>>>> first things I'll do is run it through it's paces but although I'm
>>>>>> optimistic, in reality, I know that there will still be a lot of
>>>>>> problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry I cant be more positive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Darragh
>>>>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>>>>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>>>>>>> Sent: 26 May 2008 19:16
>>>>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>>>>>> Subject: installation of suse linux
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello list,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course, towards
>>>>>>> the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing the
>>>>>>> install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd  set he
>>>>>>> had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were loading
>>>>>>> braille modules.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and when
>>>>>>> trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only 
>>>>>>> option
>>>>>>> is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be  included
>>>>>>> relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not  be 
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS  in 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these
>>>>> individuals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can do
>>>>>>> otherwise if this is not possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cody
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

RE: installation of suse linux

[Darragh]

Hay again Cody, 

Yes.  SBL will work after OpenSuSE, Sles and Sled are installed.  

Yast in my opinion is one of the best tools out there for an admin.  Ok.  You have much more power over things when your using the conf files directly but because you have most options available depending on the package your using and the availability of a yast administration module, you can get in and make changes very quickly.  I know from experience that this is a great way to get things up and running very quickly.  I'm taking part in the build of a new Domino server at the moment and I would be lost without Yast.  It would simply take me too long to get around every configuration file to make the simple changes. With yast, I just go down to system services, tab across, go down tothe one I want and start configuring. 

Granted, accessibility is not great but it's constantly improving.  Although I think Novell have a lot to do, lets not completely discredit them.  After all, their trying and this is obvious with every release.  
All be it, hard to see sometimes. 


Darragh
www.digitaldarragh.com 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> Sent: 28 May 2008 21:46
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
> 
> Suse is intended to be a professional desktop operating system, or so
> I thought it was anyay. I personally would never use it, because of
> its resemblance to MS Windows0. I am taking this course next year
> because it is a requirement to graduate my school. Suse has a funky
> package manager called yast, which is another reason I choose never to
> use suse. Novell is extremely bad, and is putting it nicely, about
> accessibility. It was a struggle going through my novell netware
> course.
> 
> HTH
> Cody
> On May 28, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:
> 
> > Hello!
> > What is supported, and what features does suse blinux have these
> days?
> > I've not tried it for a long time.
> > /Kristoffer
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cody Hurst"
> <churst35@verizon.net>
> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
> <speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >
> > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
> >
> >
> >> Hey Darragh,
> >>
> >>  I understand your wanting to work and improve accessibility and
> >> not live within your means, but right now for me and Novell, I am
> >> not  having a very fun time, beeing as I am taking a timed course 2
> >> days  until my netware oes exam. It looks as though I will be
> >> renting a  braille display to run suse..my braillenote was not
> >> detected  automatically. That is fine, whenever you get a chance to
> >> seek more  information for me, it's greatly appreciated. I just
> >> have had no luck  with any feedback and google hasn't been helpful
> >> much either, but now  I will email marco to see if he can be of
> >> some use in my findings. I  am not a programmer but I certainly
> >> envy those who are. Math has never  been my strong point so I will
> >> try to use what I have available to me.  If you know, will sbl work
> >> even after suse is installed?
> >>
> >> Thanks for all help
> >> Cody
> >> On May 27, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Darragh wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hay Cody,
> >>>
> >>> There's a few questions to get to there.
> >>>
> >>> Firstly, Blinux in OpenSuSE is under the project SBL.  This is
> >>> managed by Marco Scambrax.  This primarily focuses on Braille
> >>> however he's done some good work on incorporating speech into a
> >>> lot  of the SBL functions however getting it installed isn't the
> >>> easiest  thing in theworld to do. Wll, not that it's difficult,
> >>> but the  documentation is very hard to come by if it even exists
> >>> at all! This  is certainly no reflection on Marco and the reasons
> >>> for this were  outlined in my previous mail.
> >>>
> >>> Speakup does not come with any of the OpenSuSE distributions or
> >>> their variants.  However,  have written some instructions for
> >>> getting Speakup compiled into the OpenSuSE kernel at
> www.digitaldarragh.com/linuxat.asp
> >>>  Look for the link on that page somewhere.
> >>>
> >>> If you have one of the supported Braille displays, SBL will work
> >>> very nicely for you right from the start of installation however
> >>> you'll need to a lot of searching to find out what they ar.  You
> >>> could also search for contact details for Marco Scambrax and
> >>> contact  him directly.  He's always very helpful.  There's is also
> >>> an SBL  mailing list but it's very low traffic.
> >>>
> >>> Take a look at http://lists.opensuse.org You'll find a lot of
> >>> discussion lists there.
> >>>
> >>> Bryen, one of the users and community members that is very active
> >>> around the lists has been pushing accessibility a lot for version
> >>> 11  I think his email address is suserocks@bryen.com or
> bryen@suserocks.com
> >>>  or something like that.  Again.  A bit of googling will help you
> >>> out there. Sorry I'm kind of vague.  Writing this before running
> >>> out  the door to work.
> >>>
> >>> Key presses.  Well, from memory, ....... na.  I'll have to go
> >>> through an installation and write them out for you.  I should get
> >>> time in a week or two if that's ok for you.
> >>> It's reasonably straight forward though.  At the boot prompt, the
> >>> first option is boot from hard disk, the second is start install,
> >>> the third is start install with safe options and I cant remember
> >>> what the rest ar. Go down one to start install, press enter then
> >>> try using the alt and alt b buttons to move to the next and prior
> >>> screens.
> >>>
> >>> I don't choose a place to work based on it's accessibility instead
> >>> I  try to bend my self or the accessibility to suit the work.
> >>> I try to aim to want to do something then work on a way to do it
> >>> instead of finding something to do that is possible with the
> >>> limitations of the assistive technology I have available.
> >>>
> >>> Make sense?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Darragh
> >>> www.digitaldarragh.com
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
> >>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> >>>> Sent: 27 May 2008 22:16
> >>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> >>>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
> >>>>
> >>>> Darragh,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm unsure what version of Suse we are going to be using, but I
> >>>> will
> >>>> guess suse enterprise. Does speakup/ssh still hold true for use
> >>>> enterprise? Does speakup come precompiled into suse? If you
> >>>> would,  and
> >>>> i know this is a lot to answer, but can you give me a rundown of
> >>>> what
> >>>> I will have to do in order to start installing. I mean, boot
> >>>> commands,
> >>>> key presses, etc. I'm probably just going to tell my teacher I
> will
> >>>> need another machine to do this on. In real life, this will be on
> a
> >>>> real box, not vmware, which is my biggest nightmare for next year.
> >>>> I've never really took a liking to Novell anyway because of its
> >>>> techniques and layout. I find it extremely complex and confusing.
> >>>> I  am
> >>>> going to be taking a Novell OES exam on Friday and that course
> >>>> wasn't
> >>>> pleasant to do. I do think Novell needs to use these other
> >>>> foundations
> >>>> and projects as mentors for accessibility but I can't make water
> >>>> into
> >>>> wine, so my guess is that I will not be seeing accessibility soon.
> >>>>
> >>>> Can you perhaps give me a little insight on what in the world
> >>>> blinux
> >>>> is all about. Should I just give up on even trying to learn or
> >>>> use  it?
> >>>> I've written 2 emails to the blinux list, and have not even once
> >>>> goten
> >>>> a response you can google my emails and you will find that I have
> >>>> no
> >>>> gotten any responses.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, I think my tech instructor would benefit from this
> >>>> information, since you would know more than I have, which these
> >>>> issues.
> >>>>
> >>>> If I may ask, why did you choose Novell as a place to be hired?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for all the help you can give, and I will be in touch
> >>>> with  him.
> >>>> On May 26, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Darragh wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Cody,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The only way you'll be able to do an independent installation of
> >>>>> OpenSuSE, Sles or Sled is via SSH.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When you get OpenSuSE installed, You'll struggle against the
> >>>>> accessibility of YaST, the system tool and package manager and
> >>>>> even
> >>>>> in Gnome, you'll find the weirdest and most stupid bugs because
> >>>>> although they have some great developers in ovell, they just
> don't
> >>>>> have the resources for Accessibility.  However, one good thing
> >>>>> they
> >>>>> have done is employe one person to work on accessibility full
> >>>>> time.
> >>>>> Marco Scambrax is his name and he's a very intelligent developer.
> >>>>> He's unfortunately fighting against the rest of the company so
> his
> >>>>> efferts do not reflect the end result.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are two versions of YaST.  The GTK+ and the NGurses
> >>>>> versions.
> >>>>> Speakup will work to a reasonable degree in the text based
> version
> >>>>> but it's not great.  Mainly because there are a lot of different
> >>>>> controls for it to handle.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the graphical version, they've really come on in leaps and
> >>>>> bounds
> >>>>> over the last few years thanks to the GTK+ version released in
> >>>>> 10.3
> >>>>> however they've a very long way to come.  The GTK+ version was
> not
> >>>>> tested well with accessibility so I've ofund dozens of errors in
> >>>>> it
> >>>>> that are all reported in bugzilla.  Some of these have been fixed
> >>>>> and distributed to 10.3 via online update however a lot have been
> >>>>> pushed forward to 11.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Speaking of Eleven, OpenSuSE has a lot to live up to so one of
> the
> >>>>> first things I'll do is run it through it's paces but although
> I'm
> >>>>> optimistic, in reality, I know that there will still be a lot of
> >>>>> problems.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sorry I cant be more positive.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Darragh
> >>>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
> >>>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> >>>>>> Sent: 26 May 2008 19:16
> >>>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> >>>>>> Subject: installation of suse linux
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello list,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course,
> towards
> >>>>>> the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing the
> >>>>>> install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd
> >>>>>> set he
> >>>>>> had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were loading
> >>>>>> braille modules.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and
> when
> >>>>>> trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only
> >>>>>> option
> >>>>>> is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be
> >>>>>> included
> >>>>>> relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not
> >>>>>> be  just
> >>>>>> for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS
> >>>>>> in  the
> >>>>>> field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these
> >>>> individuals.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can do
> >>>>>> otherwise if this is not possible.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cody
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Speakup mailing list
> >>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Speakup mailing list
> >>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Speakup mailing list
> >>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Speakup mailing list
> >>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: installation of suse linux

[Cody Hurst]

Hey Darragh,

   I understand your wanting to work and improve accessibility and not  
live within your means, but right now for me and Novell, I am not  
having a very fun time, beeing as I am taking a timed course 2 days  
until my netware oes exam. It looks as though I will be renting a  
braille display to run suse..my braillenote was not detected  
automatically. That is fine, whenever you get a chance to seek more  
information for me, it's greatly appreciated. I just have had no luck  
with any feedback and google hasn't been helpful much either, but now  
I will email marco to see if he can be of some use in my findings. I  
am not a programmer but I certainly envy those who are. Math has never  
been my strong point so I will try to use what I have available to me.  
If you know, will sbl work even after suse is installed?

Thanks for all help
Cody
On May 27, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Darragh wrote:

> Hay Cody,
>
> There's a few questions to get to there.
>
> Firstly, Blinux in OpenSuSE is under the project SBL.  This is  
> managed by Marco Scambrax.  This primarily focuses on Braille  
> however he's done some good work on incorporating speech into a lot  
> of the SBL functions however getting it installed isn't the easiest  
> thing in theworld to do.  Wll, not that it's difficult, but the  
> documentation is very hard to come by if it even exists at all! This  
> is certainly no reflection on Marco and the reasons for this were  
> outlined in my previous mail.
>
> Speakup does not come with any of the OpenSuSE distributions or  
> their variants.  However,  have written some instructions for  
> getting Speakup compiled into the OpenSuSE kernel at www.digitaldarragh.com/linuxat.asp 
>  Look for the link on that page somewhere.
>
> If you have one of the supported Braille displays, SBL will work  
> very nicely for you right from the start of installation however  
> you'll need to a lot of searching to find out what they ar.  You  
> could also search for contact details for Marco Scambrax and contact  
> him directly.  He's always very helpful.  There's is also an SBL  
> mailing list but it's very low traffic.
>
> Take a look at http://lists.opensuse.org You'll find a lot of  
> discussion lists there.
>
> Bryen, one of the users and community members that is very active  
> around the lists has been pushing accessibility a lot for version  
> 11  I think his email address is suserocks@bryen.com or bryen@suserocks.com 
>  or something like that.  Again.  A bit of googling will help you  
> out there. Sorry I'm kind of vague.  Writing this before running out  
> the door to work.
>
> Key presses.  Well, from memory, ....... na.  I'll have to go  
> through an installation and write them out for you.  I should get  
> time in a week or two if that's ok for you.
> It's reasonably straight forward though.  At the boot prompt, the  
> first option is boot from hard disk, the second is start install,  
> the third is start install with safe options and I cant remember  
> what the rest ar.  Go down one to start install, press enter then  
> try using the alt and alt b buttons to move to the next and prior  
> screens.
>
> I don't choose a place to work based on it's accessibility instead I  
> try to bend my self or the accessibility to suit the work.
> I try to aim to want to do something then work on a way to do it  
> instead of finding something to do that is possible with the   
> limitations of the assistive technology I have available.
>
> Make sense?
>
>
> Darragh
> www.digitaldarragh.com
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>> Sent: 27 May 2008 22:16
>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
>>
>> Darragh,
>>
>> I'm unsure what version of Suse we are going to be using, but I will
>> guess suse enterprise. Does speakup/ssh still hold true for use
>> enterprise? Does speakup come precompiled into suse? If you would,  
>> and
>> i know this is a lot to answer, but can you give me a rundown of what
>> I will have to do in order to start installing. I mean, boot  
>> commands,
>> key presses, etc. I'm probably just going to tell my teacher I will
>> need another machine to do this on. In real life, this will be on a
>> real box, not vmware, which is my biggest nightmare for next year.
>> I've never really took a liking to Novell anyway because of its
>> techniques and layout. I find it extremely complex and confusing. I  
>> am
>> going to be taking a Novell OES exam on Friday and that course wasn't
>> pleasant to do. I do think Novell needs to use these other  
>> foundations
>> and projects as mentors for accessibility but I can't make water into
>> wine, so my guess is that I will not be seeing accessibility soon.
>>
>> Can you perhaps give me a little insight on what in the world blinux
>> is all about. Should I just give up on even trying to learn or use  
>> it?
>> I've written 2 emails to the blinux list, and have not even once  
>> goten
>> a response you can google my emails and you will find that I have no
>> gotten any responses.
>>
>> However, I think my tech instructor would benefit from this
>> information, since you would know more than I have, which these  
>> issues.
>>
>> If I may ask, why did you choose Novell as a place to be hired?
>>
>> Thanks for all the help you can give, and I will be in touch with  
>> him.
>> On May 26, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Darragh wrote:
>>
>>> Cody,
>>>
>>> The only way you'll be able to do an independent installation of
>>> OpenSuSE, Sles or Sled is via SSH.
>>>
>>> When you get OpenSuSE installed, You'll struggle against the
>>> accessibility of YaST, the system tool and package manager and even
>>> in Gnome, you'll find the weirdest and most stupid bugs because
>>> although they have some great developers in ovell, they just don't
>>> have the resources for Accessibility.  However, one good thing they
>>> have done is employe one person to work on accessibility full time.
>>> Marco Scambrax is his name and he's a very intelligent developer.
>>> He's unfortunately fighting against the rest of the company so his
>>> efferts do not reflect the end result.
>>>
>>> There are two versions of YaST.  The GTK+ and the NGurses versions.
>>> Speakup will work to a reasonable degree in the text based version
>>> but it's not great.  Mainly because there are a lot of different
>>> controls for it to handle.
>>>
>>> In the graphical version, they've really come on in leaps and bounds
>>> over the last few years thanks to the GTK+ version released in 10.3
>>> however they've a very long way to come.  The GTK+ version was not
>>> tested well with accessibility so I've ofund dozens of errors in it
>>> that are all reported in bugzilla.  Some of these have been fixed
>>> and distributed to 10.3 via online update however a lot have been
>>> pushed forward to 11.
>>>
>>> Speaking of Eleven, OpenSuSE has a lot to live up to so one of the
>>> first things I'll do is run it through it's paces but although I'm
>>> optimistic, in reality, I know that there will still be a lot of
>>> problems.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry I cant be more positive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Darragh
>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>>>> Sent: 26 May 2008 19:16
>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>>> Subject: installation of suse linux
>>>>
>>>> Hello list,
>>>>
>>>>  Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course, towards
>>>> the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing the
>>>> install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd set he
>>>> had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were loading
>>>> braille modules.
>>>>
>>>>  I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and when
>>>> trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only  
>>>> option
>>>> is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be included
>>>> relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not be  
>>>> just
>>>> for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS in  
>>>> the
>>>> field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these
>> individuals.
>>>>
>>>>  Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can do
>>>> otherwise if this is not possible.
>>>>
>>>> Cody
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: installation of suse linux

[Cody Hurst]

Suse is intended to be a professional desktop operating system, or so  
I thought it was anyay. I personally would never use it, because of  
its resemblance to MS Windows0. I am taking this course next year  
because it is a requirement to graduate my school. Suse has a funky  
package manager called yast, which is another reason I choose never to  
use suse. Novell is extremely bad, and is putting it nicely, about  
accessibility. It was a struggle going through my novell netware course.

HTH
Cody
On May 28, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:

> Hello!
> What is supported, and what features does suse blinux have these days?
> I've not tried it for a long time.
> /Kristoffer
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cody Hurst" <churst35@verizon.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> >
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:04 AM
> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
>
>
>> Hey Darragh,
>>
>>  I understand your wanting to work and improve accessibility and  
>> not live within your means, but right now for me and Novell, I am  
>> not  having a very fun time, beeing as I am taking a timed course 2  
>> days  until my netware oes exam. It looks as though I will be  
>> renting a  braille display to run suse..my braillenote was not  
>> detected  automatically. That is fine, whenever you get a chance to  
>> seek more  information for me, it's greatly appreciated. I just  
>> have had no luck  with any feedback and google hasn't been helpful  
>> much either, but now  I will email marco to see if he can be of  
>> some use in my findings. I  am not a programmer but I certainly  
>> envy those who are. Math has never  been my strong point so I will  
>> try to use what I have available to me.  If you know, will sbl work  
>> even after suse is installed?
>>
>> Thanks for all help
>> Cody
>> On May 27, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Darragh wrote:
>>
>>> Hay Cody,
>>>
>>> There's a few questions to get to there.
>>>
>>> Firstly, Blinux in OpenSuSE is under the project SBL.  This is   
>>> managed by Marco Scambrax.  This primarily focuses on Braille   
>>> however he's done some good work on incorporating speech into a  
>>> lot  of the SBL functions however getting it installed isn't the  
>>> easiest  thing in theworld to do. Wll, not that it's difficult,  
>>> but the  documentation is very hard to come by if it even exists  
>>> at all! This  is certainly no reflection on Marco and the reasons  
>>> for this were  outlined in my previous mail.
>>>
>>> Speakup does not come with any of the OpenSuSE distributions or   
>>> their variants.  However,  have written some instructions for   
>>> getting Speakup compiled into the OpenSuSE kernel at www.digitaldarragh.com/linuxat.asp 
>>>  Look for the link on that page somewhere.
>>>
>>> If you have one of the supported Braille displays, SBL will work   
>>> very nicely for you right from the start of installation however   
>>> you'll need to a lot of searching to find out what they ar.  You   
>>> could also search for contact details for Marco Scambrax and  
>>> contact  him directly.  He's always very helpful.  There's is also  
>>> an SBL  mailing list but it's very low traffic.
>>>
>>> Take a look at http://lists.opensuse.org You'll find a lot of   
>>> discussion lists there.
>>>
>>> Bryen, one of the users and community members that is very active   
>>> around the lists has been pushing accessibility a lot for version   
>>> 11  I think his email address is suserocks@bryen.com or bryen@suserocks.com 
>>>  or something like that.  Again.  A bit of googling will help you   
>>> out there. Sorry I'm kind of vague.  Writing this before running  
>>> out  the door to work.
>>>
>>> Key presses.  Well, from memory, ....... na.  I'll have to go   
>>> through an installation and write them out for you.  I should get   
>>> time in a week or two if that's ok for you.
>>> It's reasonably straight forward though.  At the boot prompt, the   
>>> first option is boot from hard disk, the second is start install,   
>>> the third is start install with safe options and I cant remember   
>>> what the rest ar. Go down one to start install, press enter then   
>>> try using the alt and alt b buttons to move to the next and prior   
>>> screens.
>>>
>>> I don't choose a place to work based on it's accessibility instead  
>>> I  try to bend my self or the accessibility to suit the work.
>>> I try to aim to want to do something then work on a way to do it   
>>> instead of finding something to do that is possible with the    
>>> limitations of the assistive technology I have available.
>>>
>>> Make sense?
>>>
>>>
>>> Darragh
>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>>>> Sent: 27 May 2008 22:16
>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
>>>>
>>>> Darragh,
>>>>
>>>> I'm unsure what version of Suse we are going to be using, but I  
>>>> will
>>>> guess suse enterprise. Does speakup/ssh still hold true for use
>>>> enterprise? Does speakup come precompiled into suse? If you  
>>>> would,  and
>>>> i know this is a lot to answer, but can you give me a rundown of  
>>>> what
>>>> I will have to do in order to start installing. I mean, boot   
>>>> commands,
>>>> key presses, etc. I'm probably just going to tell my teacher I will
>>>> need another machine to do this on. In real life, this will be on a
>>>> real box, not vmware, which is my biggest nightmare for next year.
>>>> I've never really took a liking to Novell anyway because of its
>>>> techniques and layout. I find it extremely complex and confusing.  
>>>> I  am
>>>> going to be taking a Novell OES exam on Friday and that course  
>>>> wasn't
>>>> pleasant to do. I do think Novell needs to use these other   
>>>> foundations
>>>> and projects as mentors for accessibility but I can't make water  
>>>> into
>>>> wine, so my guess is that I will not be seeing accessibility soon.
>>>>
>>>> Can you perhaps give me a little insight on what in the world  
>>>> blinux
>>>> is all about. Should I just give up on even trying to learn or  
>>>> use  it?
>>>> I've written 2 emails to the blinux list, and have not even once   
>>>> goten
>>>> a response you can google my emails and you will find that I have  
>>>> no
>>>> gotten any responses.
>>>>
>>>> However, I think my tech instructor would benefit from this
>>>> information, since you would know more than I have, which these   
>>>> issues.
>>>>
>>>> If I may ask, why did you choose Novell as a place to be hired?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all the help you can give, and I will be in touch  
>>>> with  him.
>>>> On May 26, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Darragh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cody,
>>>>>
>>>>> The only way you'll be able to do an independent installation of
>>>>> OpenSuSE, Sles or Sled is via SSH.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you get OpenSuSE installed, You'll struggle against the
>>>>> accessibility of YaST, the system tool and package manager and  
>>>>> even
>>>>> in Gnome, you'll find the weirdest and most stupid bugs because
>>>>> although they have some great developers in ovell, they just don't
>>>>> have the resources for Accessibility.  However, one good thing  
>>>>> they
>>>>> have done is employe one person to work on accessibility full  
>>>>> time.
>>>>> Marco Scambrax is his name and he's a very intelligent developer.
>>>>> He's unfortunately fighting against the rest of the company so his
>>>>> efferts do not reflect the end result.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two versions of YaST.  The GTK+ and the NGurses  
>>>>> versions.
>>>>> Speakup will work to a reasonable degree in the text based version
>>>>> but it's not great.  Mainly because there are a lot of different
>>>>> controls for it to handle.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the graphical version, they've really come on in leaps and  
>>>>> bounds
>>>>> over the last few years thanks to the GTK+ version released in  
>>>>> 10.3
>>>>> however they've a very long way to come.  The GTK+ version was not
>>>>> tested well with accessibility so I've ofund dozens of errors in  
>>>>> it
>>>>> that are all reported in bugzilla.  Some of these have been fixed
>>>>> and distributed to 10.3 via online update however a lot have been
>>>>> pushed forward to 11.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of Eleven, OpenSuSE has a lot to live up to so one of the
>>>>> first things I'll do is run it through it's paces but although I'm
>>>>> optimistic, in reality, I know that there will still be a lot of
>>>>> problems.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry I cant be more positive.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Darragh
>>>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>>>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>>>>>> Sent: 26 May 2008 19:16
>>>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>>>>> Subject: installation of suse linux
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello list,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course, towards
>>>>>> the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing the
>>>>>> install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd  
>>>>>> set he
>>>>>> had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were loading
>>>>>> braille modules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and when
>>>>>> trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only   
>>>>>> option
>>>>>> is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be  
>>>>>> included
>>>>>> relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not  
>>>>>> be  just
>>>>>> for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS  
>>>>>> in  the
>>>>>> field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these
>>>> individuals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can do
>>>>>> otherwise if this is not possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cody
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: installation of suse linux

[Cody Hurst]

That is ture, well let me know if ther is anything else I should be  
aware of. I will be in contact with Marco soon.
When you say you arrow and tab, you mean by speech or braille?

On May 28, 2008, at 2:54 PM, Darragh wrote:

> Hay again Cody,
>
> Yes.  SBL will work after OpenSuSE, Sles and Sled are installed.
>
> Yast in my opinion is one of the best tools out there for an admin.   
> Ok.  You have much more power over things when your using the conf  
> files directly but because you have most options available depending  
> on the package your using and the availability of a yast  
> administration module, you can get in and make changes very  
> quickly.  I know from experience that this is a great way to get  
> things up and running very quickly.  I'm taking part in the build of  
> a new Domino server at the moment and I would be lost without Yast.   
> It would simply take me too long to get around every configuration  
> file to make the simple changes. With yast, I just go down to system  
> services, tab across, go down tothe one I want and start configuring.
>
> Granted, accessibility is not great but it's constantly improving.   
> Although I think Novell have a lot to do, lets not completely  
> discredit them.  After all, their trying and this is obvious with  
> every release.
> All be it, hard to see sometimes.
>
>
> Darragh
> www.digitaldarragh.com
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>> Sent: 28 May 2008 21:46
>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
>>
>> Suse is intended to be a professional desktop operating system, or so
>> I thought it was anyay. I personally would never use it, because of
>> its resemblance to MS Windows0. I am taking this course next year
>> because it is a requirement to graduate my school. Suse has a funky
>> package manager called yast, which is another reason I choose never  
>> to
>> use suse. Novell is extremely bad, and is putting it nicely, about
>> accessibility. It was a struggle going through my novell netware
>> course.
>>
>> HTH
>> Cody
>> On May 28, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:
>>
>>> Hello!
>>> What is supported, and what features does suse blinux have these
>> days?
>>> I've not tried it for a long time.
>>> /Kristoffer
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cody Hurst"
>> <churst35@verizon.net>
>>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
>> <speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:04 AM
>>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hey Darragh,
>>>>
>>>> I understand your wanting to work and improve accessibility and
>>>> not live within your means, but right now for me and Novell, I am
>>>> not  having a very fun time, beeing as I am taking a timed course 2
>>>> days  until my netware oes exam. It looks as though I will be
>>>> renting a  braille display to run suse..my braillenote was not
>>>> detected  automatically. That is fine, whenever you get a chance to
>>>> seek more  information for me, it's greatly appreciated. I just
>>>> have had no luck  with any feedback and google hasn't been helpful
>>>> much either, but now  I will email marco to see if he can be of
>>>> some use in my findings. I  am not a programmer but I certainly
>>>> envy those who are. Math has never  been my strong point so I will
>>>> try to use what I have available to me.  If you know, will sbl work
>>>> even after suse is installed?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all help
>>>> Cody
>>>> On May 27, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Darragh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hay Cody,
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a few questions to get to there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Firstly, Blinux in OpenSuSE is under the project SBL.  This is
>>>>> managed by Marco Scambrax.  This primarily focuses on Braille
>>>>> however he's done some good work on incorporating speech into a
>>>>> lot  of the SBL functions however getting it installed isn't the
>>>>> easiest  thing in theworld to do. Wll, not that it's difficult,
>>>>> but the  documentation is very hard to come by if it even exists
>>>>> at all! This  is certainly no reflection on Marco and the reasons
>>>>> for this were  outlined in my previous mail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speakup does not come with any of the OpenSuSE distributions or
>>>>> their variants.  However,  have written some instructions for
>>>>> getting Speakup compiled into the OpenSuSE kernel at
>> www.digitaldarragh.com/linuxat.asp
>>>>> Look for the link on that page somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have one of the supported Braille displays, SBL will work
>>>>> very nicely for you right from the start of installation however
>>>>> you'll need to a lot of searching to find out what they ar.  You
>>>>> could also search for contact details for Marco Scambrax and
>>>>> contact  him directly.  He's always very helpful.  There's is also
>>>>> an SBL  mailing list but it's very low traffic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take a look at http://lists.opensuse.org You'll find a lot of
>>>>> discussion lists there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bryen, one of the users and community members that is very active
>>>>> around the lists has been pushing accessibility a lot for version
>>>>> 11  I think his email address is suserocks@bryen.com or
>> bryen@suserocks.com
>>>>> or something like that.  Again.  A bit of googling will help you
>>>>> out there. Sorry I'm kind of vague.  Writing this before running
>>>>> out  the door to work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Key presses.  Well, from memory, ....... na.  I'll have to go
>>>>> through an installation and write them out for you.  I should get
>>>>> time in a week or two if that's ok for you.
>>>>> It's reasonably straight forward though.  At the boot prompt, the
>>>>> first option is boot from hard disk, the second is start install,
>>>>> the third is start install with safe options and I cant remember
>>>>> what the rest ar. Go down one to start install, press enter then
>>>>> try using the alt and alt b buttons to move to the next and prior
>>>>> screens.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't choose a place to work based on it's accessibility instead
>>>>> I  try to bend my self or the accessibility to suit the work.
>>>>> I try to aim to want to do something then work on a way to do it
>>>>> instead of finding something to do that is possible with the
>>>>> limitations of the assistive technology I have available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Make sense?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Darragh
>>>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>>>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>>>>>> Sent: 27 May 2008 22:16
>>>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>>>>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Darragh,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm unsure what version of Suse we are going to be using, but I
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> guess suse enterprise. Does speakup/ssh still hold true for use
>>>>>> enterprise? Does speakup come precompiled into suse? If you
>>>>>> would,  and
>>>>>> i know this is a lot to answer, but can you give me a rundown of
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> I will have to do in order to start installing. I mean, boot
>>>>>> commands,
>>>>>> key presses, etc. I'm probably just going to tell my teacher I
>> will
>>>>>> need another machine to do this on. In real life, this will be on
>> a
>>>>>> real box, not vmware, which is my biggest nightmare for next  
>>>>>> year.
>>>>>> I've never really took a liking to Novell anyway because of its
>>>>>> techniques and layout. I find it extremely complex and confusing.
>>>>>> I  am
>>>>>> going to be taking a Novell OES exam on Friday and that course
>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>> pleasant to do. I do think Novell needs to use these other
>>>>>> foundations
>>>>>> and projects as mentors for accessibility but I can't make water
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> wine, so my guess is that I will not be seeing accessibility  
>>>>>> soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you perhaps give me a little insight on what in the world
>>>>>> blinux
>>>>>> is all about. Should I just give up on even trying to learn or
>>>>>> use  it?
>>>>>> I've written 2 emails to the blinux list, and have not even once
>>>>>> goten
>>>>>> a response you can google my emails and you will find that I have
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> gotten any responses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, I think my tech instructor would benefit from this
>>>>>> information, since you would know more than I have, which these
>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I may ask, why did you choose Novell as a place to be hired?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for all the help you can give, and I will be in touch
>>>>>> with  him.
>>>>>> On May 26, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Darragh wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cody,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only way you'll be able to do an independent installation of
>>>>>>> OpenSuSE, Sles or Sled is via SSH.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you get OpenSuSE installed, You'll struggle against the
>>>>>>> accessibility of YaST, the system tool and package manager and
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> in Gnome, you'll find the weirdest and most stupid bugs because
>>>>>>> although they have some great developers in ovell, they just
>> don't
>>>>>>> have the resources for Accessibility.  However, one good thing
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> have done is employe one person to work on accessibility full
>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>> Marco Scambrax is his name and he's a very intelligent  
>>>>>>> developer.
>>>>>>> He's unfortunately fighting against the rest of the company so
>> his
>>>>>>> efferts do not reflect the end result.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are two versions of YaST.  The GTK+ and the NGurses
>>>>>>> versions.
>>>>>>> Speakup will work to a reasonable degree in the text based
>> version
>>>>>>> but it's not great.  Mainly because there are a lot of different
>>>>>>> controls for it to handle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the graphical version, they've really come on in leaps and
>>>>>>> bounds
>>>>>>> over the last few years thanks to the GTK+ version released in
>>>>>>> 10.3
>>>>>>> however they've a very long way to come.  The GTK+ version was
>> not
>>>>>>> tested well with accessibility so I've ofund dozens of errors in
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> that are all reported in bugzilla.  Some of these have been  
>>>>>>> fixed
>>>>>>> and distributed to 10.3 via online update however a lot have  
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> pushed forward to 11.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaking of Eleven, OpenSuSE has a lot to live up to so one of
>> the
>>>>>>> first things I'll do is run it through it's paces but although
>> I'm
>>>>>>> optimistic, in reality, I know that there will still be a lot of
>>>>>>> problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry I cant be more positive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Darragh
>>>>>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
>>>>>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>>>>>>>> Sent: 26 May 2008 19:16
>>>>>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>>>>>>> Subject: installation of suse linux
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello list,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course,
>> towards
>>>>>>>> the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing  
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd
>>>>>>>> set he
>>>>>>>> had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were  
>>>>>>>> loading
>>>>>>>> braille modules.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and
>> when
>>>>>>>> trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only
>>>>>>>> option
>>>>>>>> is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be
>>>>>>>> included
>>>>>>>> relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not
>>>>>>>> be  just
>>>>>>>> for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS
>>>>>>>> in  the
>>>>>>>> field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these
>>>>>> individuals.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can  
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> otherwise if this is not possible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cody
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: installation of suse linux

[Darragh]

If you follow my instructions for installing Speakup on http://www.digitaldarragh.com/linuxat.asp you'll get reasonable audio feedback when your in yast. 

Of course, the GTK+ version of Yast should improve with time so in the next version, who knows, you may actually be able to use that just as easily. 


Darragh
www.digitaldarragh.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> Sent: 29 May 2008 01:31
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
> 
> That is ture, well let me know if ther is anything else I should be
> aware of. I will be in contact with Marco soon.
> When you say you arrow and tab, you mean by speech or braille?
> 
> On May 28, 2008, at 2:54 PM, Darragh wrote:
> 
> > Hay again Cody,
> >
> > Yes.  SBL will work after OpenSuSE, Sles and Sled are installed.
> >
> > Yast in my opinion is one of the best tools out there for an admin.
> > Ok.  You have much more power over things when your using the conf
> > files directly but because you have most options available depending
> > on the package your using and the availability of a yast
> > administration module, you can get in and make changes very
> > quickly.  I know from experience that this is a great way to get
> > things up and running very quickly.  I'm taking part in the build of
> > a new Domino server at the moment and I would be lost without Yast.
> > It would simply take me too long to get around every configuration
> > file to make the simple changes. With yast, I just go down to system
> > services, tab across, go down tothe one I want and start configuring.
> >
> > Granted, accessibility is not great but it's constantly improving.
> > Although I think Novell have a lot to do, lets not completely
> > discredit them.  After all, their trying and this is obvious with
> > every release.
> > All be it, hard to see sometimes.
> >
> >
> > Darragh
> > www.digitaldarragh.com
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
> >> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> >> Sent: 28 May 2008 21:46
> >> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> >> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
> >>
> >> Suse is intended to be a professional desktop operating system, or
> so
> >> I thought it was anyay. I personally would never use it, because of
> >> its resemblance to MS Windows0. I am taking this course next year
> >> because it is a requirement to graduate my school. Suse has a funky
> >> package manager called yast, which is another reason I choose never
> >> to
> >> use suse. Novell is extremely bad, and is putting it nicely, about
> >> accessibility. It was a struggle going through my novell netware
> >> course.
> >>
> >> HTH
> >> Cody
> >> On May 28, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello!
> >>> What is supported, and what features does suse blinux have these
> >> days?
> >>> I've not tried it for a long time.
> >>> /Kristoffer
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cody Hurst"
> >> <churst35@verizon.net>
> >>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
> >> <speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>>>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:04 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hey Darragh,
> >>>>
> >>>> I understand your wanting to work and improve accessibility and
> >>>> not live within your means, but right now for me and Novell, I am
> >>>> not  having a very fun time, beeing as I am taking a timed course
> 2
> >>>> days  until my netware oes exam. It looks as though I will be
> >>>> renting a  braille display to run suse..my braillenote was not
> >>>> detected  automatically. That is fine, whenever you get a chance
> to
> >>>> seek more  information for me, it's greatly appreciated. I just
> >>>> have had no luck  with any feedback and google hasn't been helpful
> >>>> much either, but now  I will email marco to see if he can be of
> >>>> some use in my findings. I  am not a programmer but I certainly
> >>>> envy those who are. Math has never  been my strong point so I will
> >>>> try to use what I have available to me.  If you know, will sbl
> work
> >>>> even after suse is installed?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for all help
> >>>> Cody
> >>>> On May 27, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Darragh wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hay Cody,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There's a few questions to get to there.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Firstly, Blinux in OpenSuSE is under the project SBL.  This is
> >>>>> managed by Marco Scambrax.  This primarily focuses on Braille
> >>>>> however he's done some good work on incorporating speech into a
> >>>>> lot  of the SBL functions however getting it installed isn't the
> >>>>> easiest  thing in theworld to do. Wll, not that it's difficult,
> >>>>> but the  documentation is very hard to come by if it even exists
> >>>>> at all! This  is certainly no reflection on Marco and the reasons
> >>>>> for this were  outlined in my previous mail.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Speakup does not come with any of the OpenSuSE distributions or
> >>>>> their variants.  However,  have written some instructions for
> >>>>> getting Speakup compiled into the OpenSuSE kernel at
> >> www.digitaldarragh.com/linuxat.asp
> >>>>> Look for the link on that page somewhere.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you have one of the supported Braille displays, SBL will work
> >>>>> very nicely for you right from the start of installation however
> >>>>> you'll need to a lot of searching to find out what they ar.  You
> >>>>> could also search for contact details for Marco Scambrax and
> >>>>> contact  him directly.  He's always very helpful.  There's is
> also
> >>>>> an SBL  mailing list but it's very low traffic.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Take a look at http://lists.opensuse.org You'll find a lot of
> >>>>> discussion lists there.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bryen, one of the users and community members that is very active
> >>>>> around the lists has been pushing accessibility a lot for version
> >>>>> 11  I think his email address is suserocks@bryen.com or
> >> bryen@suserocks.com
> >>>>> or something like that.  Again.  A bit of googling will help you
> >>>>> out there. Sorry I'm kind of vague.  Writing this before running
> >>>>> out  the door to work.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Key presses.  Well, from memory, ....... na.  I'll have to go
> >>>>> through an installation and write them out for you.  I should get
> >>>>> time in a week or two if that's ok for you.
> >>>>> It's reasonably straight forward though.  At the boot prompt, the
> >>>>> first option is boot from hard disk, the second is start install,
> >>>>> the third is start install with safe options and I cant remember
> >>>>> what the rest ar. Go down one to start install, press enter then
> >>>>> try using the alt and alt b buttons to move to the next and prior
> >>>>> screens.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't choose a place to work based on it's accessibility
> instead
> >>>>> I  try to bend my self or the accessibility to suit the work.
> >>>>> I try to aim to want to do something then work on a way to do it
> >>>>> instead of finding something to do that is possible with the
> >>>>> limitations of the assistive technology I have available.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Make sense?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Darragh
> >>>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
> >>>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> >>>>>> Sent: 27 May 2008 22:16
> >>>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: installation of suse linux
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Darragh,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm unsure what version of Suse we are going to be using, but I
> >>>>>> will
> >>>>>> guess suse enterprise. Does speakup/ssh still hold true for use
> >>>>>> enterprise? Does speakup come precompiled into suse? If you
> >>>>>> would,  and
> >>>>>> i know this is a lot to answer, but can you give me a rundown of
> >>>>>> what
> >>>>>> I will have to do in order to start installing. I mean, boot
> >>>>>> commands,
> >>>>>> key presses, etc. I'm probably just going to tell my teacher I
> >> will
> >>>>>> need another machine to do this on. In real life, this will be
> on
> >> a
> >>>>>> real box, not vmware, which is my biggest nightmare for next
> >>>>>> year.
> >>>>>> I've never really took a liking to Novell anyway because of its
> >>>>>> techniques and layout. I find it extremely complex and
> confusing.
> >>>>>> I  am
> >>>>>> going to be taking a Novell OES exam on Friday and that course
> >>>>>> wasn't
> >>>>>> pleasant to do. I do think Novell needs to use these other
> >>>>>> foundations
> >>>>>> and projects as mentors for accessibility but I can't make water
> >>>>>> into
> >>>>>> wine, so my guess is that I will not be seeing accessibility
> >>>>>> soon.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Can you perhaps give me a little insight on what in the world
> >>>>>> blinux
> >>>>>> is all about. Should I just give up on even trying to learn or
> >>>>>> use  it?
> >>>>>> I've written 2 emails to the blinux list, and have not even once
> >>>>>> goten
> >>>>>> a response you can google my emails and you will find that I
> have
> >>>>>> no
> >>>>>> gotten any responses.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> However, I think my tech instructor would benefit from this
> >>>>>> information, since you would know more than I have, which these
> >>>>>> issues.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If I may ask, why did you choose Novell as a place to be hired?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks for all the help you can give, and I will be in touch
> >>>>>> with  him.
> >>>>>> On May 26, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Darragh wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cody,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The only way you'll be able to do an independent installation
> of
> >>>>>>> OpenSuSE, Sles or Sled is via SSH.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When you get OpenSuSE installed, You'll struggle against the
> >>>>>>> accessibility of YaST, the system tool and package manager and
> >>>>>>> even
> >>>>>>> in Gnome, you'll find the weirdest and most stupid bugs because
> >>>>>>> although they have some great developers in ovell, they just
> >> don't
> >>>>>>> have the resources for Accessibility.  However, one good thing
> >>>>>>> they
> >>>>>>> have done is employe one person to work on accessibility full
> >>>>>>> time.
> >>>>>>> Marco Scambrax is his name and he's a very intelligent
> >>>>>>> developer.
> >>>>>>> He's unfortunately fighting against the rest of the company so
> >> his
> >>>>>>> efferts do not reflect the end result.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There are two versions of YaST.  The GTK+ and the NGurses
> >>>>>>> versions.
> >>>>>>> Speakup will work to a reasonable degree in the text based
> >> version
> >>>>>>> but it's not great.  Mainly because there are a lot of
> different
> >>>>>>> controls for it to handle.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In the graphical version, they've really come on in leaps and
> >>>>>>> bounds
> >>>>>>> over the last few years thanks to the GTK+ version released in
> >>>>>>> 10.3
> >>>>>>> however they've a very long way to come.  The GTK+ version was
> >> not
> >>>>>>> tested well with accessibility so I've ofund dozens of errors
> in
> >>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>> that are all reported in bugzilla.  Some of these have been
> >>>>>>> fixed
> >>>>>>> and distributed to 10.3 via online update however a lot have
> >>>>>>> been
> >>>>>>> pushed forward to 11.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Speaking of Eleven, OpenSuSE has a lot to live up to so one of
> >> the
> >>>>>>> first things I'll do is run it through it's paces but although
> >> I'm
> >>>>>>> optimistic, in reality, I know that there will still be a lot
> of
> >>>>>>> problems.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sorry I cant be more positive.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Darragh
> >>>>>>> www.digitaldarragh.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-
> >>>>>>>> bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> >>>>>>>> Sent: 26 May 2008 19:16
> >>>>>>>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> >>>>>>>> Subject: installation of suse linux
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hello list,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course,
> >> towards
> >>>>>>>> the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd
> >>>>>>>> set he
> >>>>>>>> had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were
> >>>>>>>> loading
> >>>>>>>> braille modules.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and
> >> when
> >>>>>>>> trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only
> >>>>>>>> option
> >>>>>>>> is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be
> >>>>>>>> included
> >>>>>>>> relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not
> >>>>>>>> be  just
> >>>>>>>> for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS
> >>>>>>>> in  the
> >>>>>>>> field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these
> >>>>>> individuals.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can
> >>>>>>>> do
> >>>>>>>> otherwise if this is not possible.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cody
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Speakup mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>>>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Speakup mailing list
> >>>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Speakup mailing list
> >>>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Speakup mailing list
> >>>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Speakup mailing list
> >>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Speakup mailing list
> >>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

RE: installation of suse linux

[Georgina Joyce]

	Hi Darragh

11 has release candidates is it worth downloading the latest and giving
it a spin?  When is 11 being officially released?

Gena
On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 06:36 +0100, Darragh wrote:
> If you follow my instructions for installing Speakup on http://www.digitaldarragh.com/linuxat.asp you'll get reasonable audio feedback when your in yast. 
> 
> Of course, the GTK+ version of Yast should improve with time so in the next version, who knows, you may actually be able to use that just as easily. 
> 
> 
> Darragh
> www.digitaldarragh.com

installation of suse linux

[Cody Hurst]

Hello list,

   Next year I am going to be using suse for a Linux course, towards  
the second part of the ear. I have no other way of accessing the  
install, hwoever when a friend booted the first cd of the cd set he  
had seen some text scroll by that looked as if they were loading  
braille modules.

   I have read about blinux, however the writings were old, and when  
trying to follow the instructions, they did not work. My only option  
is speakup, and a BNS. Is there a way that speakup can be included  
relatively soon so that I can do this course? This would not be just  
for me, but anyone wishing to install a professional grade OS in the  
field. This would greatly enhace accessibility for these individuals.

   Please write back to me on or off list, describing what I can do  
otherwise if this is not possible.

Cody