New Debian Install - HELP!

New Debian Install - HELP!

[Steve Holmes]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

I just downloaded two recent install CD's for Debian Lenny; one from
June of this year (Beta 2) and a testing image dated today Oct 9th.  I
have a speakout synth hooked up on ttyS0 and am using it at this very
moment.  But alas, I cannot get it to work with these Debian boot
disks.  The command I'm using is 
install speakup.synth=spkout
I tried this with and without pressing tab first.  In all cases, I get
no speech.  I saw in the f8.txt that speakup could be used but in
parentheses, they said graphical installer only so I also tried 
installgui speakup.synth=spkout
Again, no speach then either.  What could be wrong here? I thought
these latest CD's would have kernels compatible with Speakup.  Do I
still have to go out and boot with a dedicated boot disk like Samuel's
disk?

Thanks for helping.
- -- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://holmesgrown.ld.net/
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Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Erik Heil]

Hi their.  As far as I know, the installer does support Speakup out of the
box.  I can't confirm this, but apparently you're supposed to press tab
before typing the commands to get speakup talking.  As a side note, I did
download an installation immage for Speakup, but I have a Dectalk Express
whereas you apparently have a Speakout synth.  Not even sure if they're
manufactured anymore, but they're good synths nevertheless.  Getting back
to you're point, I could not get the Dectalk express to come up talking
with any of the immages, but this might be related to another issues.

--Erik

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, Steve Holmes wrote:

> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:40:10 -0700
> From: Steve Holmes <steve@holmesgrown.com>
> Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>     <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: New Debian Install - HELP!
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> I just downloaded two recent install CD's for Debian Lenny; one from
> June of this year (Beta 2) and a testing image dated today Oct 9th.  I
> have a speakout synth hooked up on ttyS0 and am using it at this very
> moment.  But alas, I cannot get it to work with these Debian boot
> disks.  The command I'm using is
> install speakup.synth=spkout
> I tried this with and without pressing tab first.  In all cases, I get
> no speech.  I saw in the f8.txt that speakup could be used but in
> parentheses, they said graphical installer only so I also tried
> installgui speakup.synth=spkout
> Again, no speach then either.  What could be wrong here? I thought
> these latest CD's would have kernels compatible with Speakup.  Do I
> still have to go out and boot with a dedicated boot disk like Samuel's
> disk?
>
> Thanks for helping.
> - --
> HolmesGrown Solutions
> The best solutions for the best price!
> http://holmesgrown.ld.net/
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFI7pZZWSjv55S0LfERA9j5AKDJtixklXzgPzkR5AbQj2emC9rt7ACfW2NU
> olA209d/OzZC9AvLT6bDaSo=
> =Lfs7
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

eheil@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Tyler Littlefield]

If it's serial, try using other ports, too.

Thanks,
_|_|_|_|_|  _|        _|_|_|_|
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Visit TDS for quality software and website production
http://tysdomain.com
msn: tyler@tysdomain.com
aim: st8amnd2005
skype: st8amnd127
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Erik Heil" <eheil@sdf.lonestar.org>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: New Debian Install - HELP!


> Hi their.  As far as I know, the installer does support Speakup out of the
> box.  I can't confirm this, but apparently you're supposed to press tab
> before typing the commands to get speakup talking.  As a side note, I did
> download an installation immage for Speakup, but I have a Dectalk Express
> whereas you apparently have a Speakout synth.  Not even sure if they're
> manufactured anymore, but they're good synths nevertheless.  Getting back
> to you're point, I could not get the Dectalk express to come up talking
> with any of the immages, but this might be related to another issues.
>
> --Erik
>
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, Steve Holmes wrote:
>
>> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:40:10 -0700
>> From: Steve Holmes <steve@holmesgrown.com>
>> Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>     <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> Subject: New Debian Install - HELP!
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>
>> I just downloaded two recent install CD's for Debian Lenny; one from
>> June of this year (Beta 2) and a testing image dated today Oct 9th.  I
>> have a speakout synth hooked up on ttyS0 and am using it at this very
>> moment.  But alas, I cannot get it to work with these Debian boot
>> disks.  The command I'm using is
>> install speakup.synth=spkout
>> I tried this with and without pressing tab first.  In all cases, I get
>> no speech.  I saw in the f8.txt that speakup could be used but in
>> parentheses, they said graphical installer only so I also tried
>> installgui speakup.synth=spkout
>> Again, no speach then either.  What could be wrong here? I thought
>> these latest CD's would have kernels compatible with Speakup.  Do I
>> still have to go out and boot with a dedicated boot disk like Samuel's
>> disk?
>>
>> Thanks for helping.
>> - --
>> HolmesGrown Solutions
>> The best solutions for the best price!
>> http://holmesgrown.ld.net/
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>> iD8DBQFI7pZZWSjv55S0LfERA9j5AKDJtixklXzgPzkR5AbQj2emC9rt7ACfW2NU
>> olA209d/OzZC9AvLT6bDaSo=
>> =Lfs7
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
> eheil@sdf.lonestar.org
> SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> __________ NOD32 3509 (20081009) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

Steve Holmes, le Thu 09 Oct 2008 16:40:10 -0700, a écrit :
> The command I'm using is 
> install speakup.synth=spkout

How exactly do you type that?  You are not supposed to type install,
just speakup.synth=spkout

> I tried this with and without pressing tab first.  In all cases, I get
> no speech.  I saw in the f8.txt that speakup could be used but in
> parentheses, they said graphical installer only so I also tried 
> installgui speakup.synth=spkout

Yes, you need to select the graphical installer because the base
installer doesn't have speakup.  See

http://brl.thefreecat.org/wiki/moin.cgi/debian

To select the graphical installer, press the arrow key once before
typing tab and speakup.synth=spkout.

Samuel

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Kitty Litter]

I was able to get the Sept. 15 build to speak with the audapter using 
installgui speakup.synth=audptr. I never got the plain install to speak, 
only installgui.

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Samuel Thibault]

Kitty Litter, le Thu 09 Oct 2008 20:27:21 -0400, a écrit :
> I was able to get the Sept. 15 build to speak with the audapter using 
> installgui speakup.synth=audptr. I never got the plain install to speak, 
> only installgui.

What you call "plain install" is actuall the "small installer" :)

Samuel

Can anyone explain how the syslinux menus work?

[Kitty Litter]

Could someone with sight explain how these menus work? Are you required to 
select the type of install i.e. install, installgui, rescue or expert with 
the down-arrow keys and then tab and enter the other parameters? Or what 
happens if you type the whole thing from the keyboard? If you can see the 
screen it would be obvious what's going on, but if you can't, you can only 
guess. A clear explanation would be helpful!

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Steve Holmes]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Thanks much for the quick replies.  Yes, I got my net-install disk to
talk so now need to backup all my data before I go off into the world
of Debian. <smile>

I thought I'd go and switch from Slackware to Debian on this box so I
can have a more current version of gnome and have it integrated into
the distro like everything else.  I was a bit surprised with the
isolinux menu because with Slackware, I just type the name of the
label followed by the kernel options I want.  So this was a minor
adjustment to make.

Thanks again for the help.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 02:27:02AM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Steve Holmes, le Thu 09 Oct 2008 16:40:10 -0700, a écrit :
> > The command I'm using is 
> > install speakup.synth=spkout
> 
> How exactly do you type that?  You are not supposed to type install,
> just speakup.synth=spkout
> 
> > I tried this with and without pressing tab first.  In all cases, I get
> > no speech.  I saw in the f8.txt that speakup could be used but in
> > parentheses, they said graphical installer only so I also tried 
> > installgui speakup.synth=spkout
> 
> Yes, you need to select the graphical installer because the base
> installer doesn't have speakup.  See
> 
> http://brl.thefreecat.org/wiki/moin.cgi/debian
> 
> To select the graphical installer, press the arrow key once before
> typing tab and speakup.synth=spkout.
> 
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://holmesgrown.ld.net/
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Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Alex Snow]

Try just typing speakup.synth=spkout after pressing tab...I seem to 
remember with the new debian install disks you don't type install 
anymore.
On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 04:40:10PM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> I just downloaded two recent install CD's for Debian Lenny; one from
> June of this year (Beta 2) and a testing image dated today Oct 9th.  I
> have a speakout synth hooked up on ttyS0 and am using it at this very
> moment.  But alas, I cannot get it to work with these Debian boot
> disks.  The command I'm using is 
> install speakup.synth=spkout
> I tried this with and without pressing tab first.  In all cases, I get
> no speech.  I saw in the f8.txt that speakup could be used but in
> parentheses, they said graphical installer only so I also tried 
> installgui speakup.synth=spkout
> Again, no speach then either.  What could be wrong here? I thought
> these latest CD's would have kernels compatible with Speakup.  Do I
> still have to go out and boot with a dedicated boot disk like Samuel's
> disk?
> 
> Thanks for helping.
> - -- 
> HolmesGrown Solutions
> The best solutions for the best price!
> http://holmesgrown.ld.net/
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFI7pZZWSjv55S0LfERA9j5AKDJtixklXzgPzkR5AbQj2emC9rt7ACfW2NU
> olA209d/OzZC9AvLT6bDaSo=
> =Lfs7
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
How do I type "for i in *.dvi do xdvi $i done" in a GUI?
	-- Discussion in comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of interfaces

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Steve Holmes]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Yeah, I got past that now.  I did it by pressing down arrow once
followed by tab and then typed speakup.synth=spkout.  That part
worked.  I am having a hang-up right now as grub is the default loader
and after the install finished, I was forced to reboot.  First of all,
I don't know how to interract with grub and over-ride kernel
parameters; but worse yet, my machine at the moment won't boot into
anything!!!.  I have an existing windows partition on the first disk
and am I'm installing linux on the second disk.  Apparently, grub did
not configure this properly.  It's like windows is trying to boot
strait away and grub never comes up at all.  I'm now sitting here
waiting to errase the entire linux partition so I can start over with
Debian and maybe I can get the thing to skip grub and install lilo
instead.  I know lilo from my Slackware days and I know it is capable
of booting on one drive and dual booting for both windows and linux.
Plus I can make lilo talk at the beginning.  Grub looks to o
convoluted to me as a first impression.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 10:21:55AM -0400, Alex Snow wrote:
> Try just typing speakup.synth=spkout after pressing tab...I seem to 
> remember with the new debian install disks you don't type install 
> anymore.
> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 04:40:10PM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > 
> > I just downloaded two recent install CD's for Debian Lenny; one from
> > June of this year (Beta 2) and a testing image dated today Oct 9th.  I
> > have a speakout synth hooked up on ttyS0 and am using it at this very
> > moment.  But alas, I cannot get it to work with these Debian boot
> > disks.  The command I'm using is 
> > install speakup.synth=spkout
> > I tried this with and without pressing tab first.  In all cases, I get
> > no speech.  I saw in the f8.txt that speakup could be used but in
> > parentheses, they said graphical installer only so I also tried 
> > installgui speakup.synth=spkout
> > Again, no speach then either.  What could be wrong here? I thought
> > these latest CD's would have kernels compatible with Speakup.  Do I
> > still have to go out and boot with a dedicated boot disk like Samuel's
> > disk?
> > 
> > Thanks for helping.
> > - -- 
> > HolmesGrown Solutions
> > The best solutions for the best price!
> > http://holmesgrown.ld.net/
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
> > 
> > iD8DBQFI7pZZWSjv55S0LfERA9j5AKDJtixklXzgPzkR5AbQj2emC9rt7ACfW2NU
> > olA209d/OzZC9AvLT6bDaSo=
> > =Lfs7
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> How do I type "for i in *.dvi do xdvi $i done" in a GUI?
> 	-- Discussion in comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of interfaces
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
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Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Kerry Hoath]

Basically the reason grub won't do what you want right now is because you 
are not used to it.
Lilo hard codes the boot locations of the kernel and initial ram disk into a 
block list which breaks every time you rebuild an initrd or recompile or 
move the kernel.
Grub can read file systems, and you can fix it when the boot loader 
scrambles unlike lilo which just goes
lililililililililili


You can put lilo on and move to grub once you know how to make it go beep, 
how to make it spit its output through a serial port etc if you so choose.

you probably wanted the options
speakup_synth=xxxxx debconf/priority=low
so it would ask you which boot loader to install; alternatively set the 
priority to low on the main menu.
Regards, Kerry.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Holmes" <steve@holmesgrown.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: New Debian Install - HELP!


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Yeah, I got past that now.  I did it by pressing down arrow once
followed by tab and then typed speakup.synth=spkout.  That part
worked.  I am having a hang-up right now as grub is the default loader
and after the install finished, I was forced to reboot.  First of all,
I don't know how to interract with grub and over-ride kernel
parameters; but worse yet, my machine at the moment won't boot into
anything!!!.  I have an existing windows partition on the first disk
and am I'm installing linux on the second disk.  Apparently, grub did
not configure this properly.  It's like windows is trying to boot
strait away and grub never comes up at all.  I'm now sitting here
waiting to errase the entire linux partition so I can start over with
Debian and maybe I can get the thing to skip grub and install lilo
instead.  I know lilo from my Slackware days and I know it is capable
of booting on one drive and dual booting for both windows and linux.
Plus I can make lilo talk at the beginning.  Grub looks to o
convoluted to me as a first impression.

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Tony Baechler]

Kerry Hoath wrote:
> you probably wanted the options
> speakup_synth=xxxxx debconf/priority=low
> so it would ask you which boot loader to install; alternatively set the 
> priority to low on the main menu.
>   


Sorry, but that won't work.  I have yet to find a way around installing 
grub, even if I decide to use lilo.  Instead, when it gets to the bit 
about installing grub, you press the less than and Enter to go back.  
You might have to do that twice, but you should eventually get to the 
main menu.  Then you select the option for the lilo bootloader and all 
should be fine, but you'll still be stuck with grub installed, just not 
configured.

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Steve Holmes]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Well for now, I have lilo installed but for some reason, it doesn't
work right either.  In the mean time, I booted with my slackware cd,
got into a shell and am trying to run lilo with a chroot to update the
lilo.conf file.  But now I get a faital error about raid_setup.  god
knows what's going on here.  What does raid_setup got to do with lilo?
I haven't knowingly installed any raid.  The difference here is I'm
trying to set up a boot sector on /dev/hda (MBR), Windows runs on
/dev/hda1 and I have Debian installed on /dev/hdb (1 and 2).  System
files and all are in /dev/hdb1.  

Bottom line: I can't seem to get a decent boot sector built on the MBR
of /dev/hda so I can't boot into either system on that machine now.

If I want to update things in Debian, is there an easier way other
than starting over every time? When I use the boot disk from Deb, I
always end up in the setup script and am forced to redo all the
partitions.  there's got to be any easier way to do this.  Am I
missing something here?

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 04:50:56PM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote:
> Basically the reason grub won't do what you want right now is because you 
> are not used to it.
> Lilo hard codes the boot locations of the kernel and initial ram disk into a 
> block list which breaks every time you rebuild an initrd or recompile or 
> move the kernel.
> Grub can read file systems, and you can fix it when the boot loader 
> scrambles unlike lilo which just goes
> lililililililililili
> 
> 
> You can put lilo on and move to grub once you know how to make it go beep, 
> how to make it spit its output through a serial port etc if you so choose.
> 
> you probably wanted the options
> speakup_synth=xxxxx debconf/priority=low
> so it would ask you which boot loader to install; alternatively set the 
> priority to low on the main menu.
> Regards, Kerry.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Holmes" <steve@holmesgrown.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 4:42 PM
> Subject: Re: New Debian Install - HELP!
> 
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> Yeah, I got past that now.  I did it by pressing down arrow once
> followed by tab and then typed speakup.synth=spkout.  That part
> worked.  I am having a hang-up right now as grub is the default loader
> and after the install finished, I was forced to reboot.  First of all,
> I don't know how to interract with grub and over-ride kernel
> parameters; but worse yet, my machine at the moment won't boot into
> anything!!!.  I have an existing windows partition on the first disk
> and am I'm installing linux on the second disk.  Apparently, grub did
> not configure this properly.  It's like windows is trying to boot
> strait away and grub never comes up at all.  I'm now sitting here
> waiting to errase the entire linux partition so I can start over with
> Debian and maybe I can get the thing to skip grub and install lilo
> instead.  I know lilo from my Slackware days and I know it is capable
> of booting on one drive and dual booting for both windows and linux.
> Plus I can make lilo talk at the beginning.  Grub looks to o
> convoluted to me as a first impression.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
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Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Kerry Hoath]

you can bring your system up in rescue mode no idea how to do that with 
speech sorry.
Regards, kerry.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Holmes" <steve@holmesgrown.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: New Debian Install - HELP!


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Well for now, I have lilo installed but for some reason, it doesn't
> work right either.  In the mean time, I booted with my slackware cd,
> got into a shell and am trying to run lilo with a chroot to update the
> lilo.conf file.  But now I get a faital error about raid_setup.  god
> knows what's going on here.  What does raid_setup got to do with lilo?
> I haven't knowingly installed any raid.  The difference here is I'm
> trying to set up a boot sector on /dev/hda (MBR), Windows runs on
> /dev/hda1 and I have Debian installed on /dev/hdb (1 and 2).  System
> files and all are in /dev/hdb1.
>
> Bottom line: I can't seem to get a decent boot sector built on the MBR
> of /dev/hda so I can't boot into either system on that machine now.
>
> If I want to update things in Debian, is there an easier way other
> than starting over every time? When I use the boot disk from Deb, I
> always end up in the setup script and am forced to redo all the
> partitions.  there's got to be any easier way to do this.  Am I
> missing something here?
>
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 04:50:56PM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote:
>> Basically the reason grub won't do what you want right now is because you
>> are not used to it.
>> Lilo hard codes the boot locations of the kernel and initial ram disk 
>> into a
>> block list which breaks every time you rebuild an initrd or recompile or
>> move the kernel.
>> Grub can read file systems, and you can fix it when the boot loader
>> scrambles unlike lilo which just goes
>> lililililililililili
>>
>>
>> You can put lilo on and move to grub once you know how to make it go 
>> beep,
>> how to make it spit its output through a serial port etc if you so 
>> choose.
>>
>> you probably wanted the options
>> speakup_synth=xxxxx debconf/priority=low
>> so it would ask you which boot loader to install; alternatively set the
>> priority to low on the main menu.
>> Regards, Kerry.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve Holmes" <steve@holmesgrown.com>
>> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 4:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: New Debian Install - HELP!
>>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>
>> Yeah, I got past that now.  I did it by pressing down arrow once
>> followed by tab and then typed speakup.synth=spkout.  That part
>> worked.  I am having a hang-up right now as grub is the default loader
>> and after the install finished, I was forced to reboot.  First of all,
>> I don't know how to interract with grub and over-ride kernel
>> parameters; but worse yet, my machine at the moment won't boot into
>> anything!!!.  I have an existing windows partition on the first disk
>> and am I'm installing linux on the second disk.  Apparently, grub did
>> not configure this properly.  It's like windows is trying to boot
>> strait away and grub never comes up at all.  I'm now sitting here
>> waiting to errase the entire linux partition so I can start over with
>> Debian and maybe I can get the thing to skip grub and install lilo
>> instead.  I know lilo from my Slackware days and I know it is capable
>> of booting on one drive and dual booting for both windows and linux.
>> Plus I can make lilo talk at the beginning.  Grub looks to o
>> convoluted to me as a first impression.
>>
>>
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Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Kitty Litter]

Sounds like grub was installed on your new linux drive but bios is set to 
boot from your windows disk. Many computers you can press f11 several times 
when first starting and you get a menu where you can choose the disk to boot 
from by pressing down-arrow a few times then enter. If you turn the power 
off in the back and turn it on, supposedly these menus are in the same 
sequence. Then whin linux boots you could put grub on the MBR of your 
windows disk if you dare. 

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Tony Baechler]

Steve Holmes wrote:
> Well for now, I have lilo installed but for some reason, it doesn't
> work right either.  In the mean time, I booted with my slackware cd,
> got into a shell and am trying to run lilo with a chroot to update the
> lilo.conf file.  But now I get a faital error about raid_setup.  god
> knows what's going on here.  What does raid_setup got to do with lilo?
>   


Hi,

Ah, the annoying RAID message.  Well, actually the message has a clue, 
it just isn't obvious.  You can ignore the bit about RAID, that is 
lilo's attempt to be helpful because it is guessing what's wrong.  
Actually, if you look at the rest of the message, it says something 
about no such device as /dev/hda.  If you do "ls /dev" you'll see that 
in fact /dev is empty so of course it won't work.  The solution is to 
not chroot.  Instead, mount your boot partition under /boot or /mnt/boot 
and change your lilo.conf as needed temporarily.  Run something like:

lilo -C /mnt/etc/lilo.conf

That should hopefully work, or at least give a useful error message.  
The problem here is udev.  It creates device files automatically on 
boot.  I don't know if Slackware uses udev or not but none of them used 
to until recent years.  You could try manually creating the /dev/hd? 
files with mknod but that probably still won't work.  If you use 
something like the System Rescue CD which lets you boot into an already 
installed Linux, you should be able to say root=/dev/hda2 on the boot 
command line and fix lilo that way, bypassing the bootloader. Assuming 
you have a working CD burner and can burn CD images, you could try 
downloading the System Rescue CD and burn that.  I only suggest that 
because it lets you boot into a root device without relying on a 
bootloader and I don't think Slack does.  If you go that way, go to:

http://beta.sysresccd.org/

Get the latest 1.1.1 beta .iso.  Burn it and boot into it.  Give it a 
few seconds after the machine does its boot startup and say something like:

rescuecd speakup=synth=spkout root=auto nokeymap

You can ignore the boot messages.  Eventually you should end up at the 
root password for maintenance message.  Try lilo from there and see if 
it helps.  The kernel on the CD uses /dev/sda instead of /dev/hda, so 
change hda to sda in lilo.conf.  Good luck!

Re: New Debian Install - HELP! grub or lilo

[Frank Carmickle]

Hi all

Well I resisted the move from lilo to grub for many years.  I still find it a bit strange on machines that your not quite sure what 0x80 actually is.  Other then that it really is the way to go.  Make sure you know what 0x80 is, what your boot priority in bios is set to, and make sure that /boot/grub/device.map reflects that.  Often if I am unsure of which drive is the boot drive I will put grub on them all and if for some reason that doesn't work it's probably got the wrong rootdev.  Grub's root parameter wants to be pointing to the device where it can find /boot.  The real trouble with this is sometimes you don't know if bios has assigned drives in a different order then you will see them once the kernel has loaded.  Maybe Kerry can shed some light on weather or not there could actually be three different views of disk drive order, bios, boot loader, and kernel?  That aside you can pretty much get there if you are willing to take a few shots in the dark.  

I find it very difficult to fix the boot loader from a chroot environment, but it can be done.  You need to set up the environment before you try running the grub-install or lilo commands.  
chroot to_YOUR_NEW_DIR
mount /proc /sys /dev

One other thing that I have been doing lately if a bootloader fails is boot from pxe.  Then you have a real accessible bunch of config files on your dhcp/tftp server.  You can at least boot in to the real running environment from there to operate in a non chrooted environment.  Once you are done setting up the bootloader on the local drive then you can just comment out the nextserver parameters in your dhcpd.conf reload and your good to go.  

Thanks to Samuel we now have some good debian images that we can use for rescue and install.  Thanks Samuel.

--Frank

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 03:55:44AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> The solution is to  
> not chroot.  Instead, mount your boot partition under /boot or /mnt/boot  
> and change your lilo.conf as needed temporarily.  Run something like:
>
> lilo -C /mnt/etc/lilo.conf
>
> That should hopefully work, or at least give a useful error message.   

After you've got your lilo.conf setup the way you want, don't forget
to do
lilo -r /mnt
to reinstall lilo.

> If you use  
> something like the System Rescue CD which lets you boot into an already  
> installed Linux, you should be able to say root=/dev/hda2 on the boot  
> command line and fix lilo that way, bypassing the bootloader.

Actually, sysresccd configures ide drives to show up as scsi. So, what
you want is something like root=/dev/sda2 instead. Note that unless
debian is configuring ide drives to show up as scsi drives, you won't
be able to install lilo using sysresccd, since your lilo.conf will
refer to /dev/hdx devices, which will actually exist as /dev/sdx under
sysresccd. If you change your lilo.conf to refer to /dev/sdx, and
install it under sysresccd, then you won't be able to boot, because
those devices will be /dev/hdx in debian. I know this for a fact from
personal experience. Unfortunately, as far as I know, sysresccd
supplies the ide-pata modules only, so you can't just rmmod the
ide-pata module, and load the standard ide one for your chipset. If
enough people complain about this on the forums, I think Francois
might include the standard ide modules as well.

> Assuming  
> you have a working CD burner and can burn CD images, you could try  
> downloading the System Rescue CD and burn that.

Since we're on the topic of sysresccd, I think I've found the bug that
caused speech delay for dectalk users shortly after entering runlevel
3, and have put in a temporary fix, to see if the problem is in fact
what I think it is. If dectalk users who have seen the problem I'm
talking about want to grab the new iso to test with, and let me know
if the problem is in fact gone, you can grab it from:

http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/systemrescuecd-x86-1.1.1-beta5-speakup.iso

If a dectalk user can confirm that this iso doesn't in fact exhibit
that problem anymore, I can discuss with Francois a permanent fix, in
such a way that it won't effect the average non-speakup sysresccd user.

> The kernel on the CD uses /dev/sda instead of /dev/hda, so  
> change hda to sda in lilo.conf.  Good luck!

See what I said above on this.

Greg


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Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Steve Holmes]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Well, things are even worse now.  In trying to isolate my problem, I
took out the new drive that I was installing linux on and replaced it
with my original (second drive) which had my old working slackware on
it and I still can't boot.  With my original drive, I even did a lilo
- -r /mnt from my slackware CD and that appeared to go fine; I can't say
I've ever experienced this kind of problem before.  I'm trying to do
everything to avoid having to completely re-install windows.  I
unfortunately need windows on my box for some time yet.  For whatever
reason, my MBR won't take the loader or won't boot for me.

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:32:08PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 03:55:44AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> > The solution is to  
> > not chroot.  Instead, mount your boot partition under /boot or /mnt/boot  
> > and change your lilo.conf as needed temporarily.  Run something like:
> >
> > lilo -C /mnt/etc/lilo.conf
> >
> > That should hopefully work, or at least give a useful error message.   
> 
> After you've got your lilo.conf setup the way you want, don't forget
> to do
> lilo -r /mnt
> to reinstall lilo.
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Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

When you say that you can't boot, do you mean that you can't boot
windows, gnu/linux, or neither? It's possible that with the swaping in
and out of drives, you're bios needs to be told to rerecognize 1 or both
hard drives. I used to have a machine where this was an issue; if you
didn't touch ide drives, everything was fine, if you hooked up a new
drive, or simply removed an existing one, you had to go into bios, and
set the hds to auto again, else it wouldn't acknowledge the drives are
there. Note that just because your livecd is seeing the drives doesn't
matter, since linux does it's drive detection and handling without
relying purely on what the bios has to say.

Perhaps if you can describe what you are, and are not able to boot,
and if you can have a sightling verify hd setup in bios, we can try to
help more.

Greg


On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 02:57:59PM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> Well, things are even worse now.  In trying to isolate my problem, I
> took out the new drive that I was installing linux on and replaced it
> with my original (second drive) which had my old working slackware on
> it and I still can't boot.  With my original drive, I even did a lilo
> -r /mnt from my slackware CD and that appeared to go fine; I can't say
> I've ever experienced this kind of problem before.  I'm trying to do
> everything to avoid having to completely re-install windows.  I
> unfortunately need windows on my box for some time yet.  For whatever
> reason, my MBR won't take the loader or won't boot for me.
> 


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Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Steve Holmes]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

I couldn't boot into either.  What I did in the mean time, I created a
lilo boot disk from my slackware installation and that allows me to
boot into both systems.  So I think you may have hit the nail on the
head when you mentioned the BIOS losing the boot settings.  I sure
wish we could get a good talking BIOS.

Anyway, I'm about to go and try installing Deb again but this time
write the lilo boot image to the floppy for the time being.  Hopefully
I can do that to get the kernel matched up.

Thanks for the help so far.

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 04:34:21PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> When you say that you can't boot, do you mean that you can't boot
> windows, gnu/linux, or neither? It's possible that with the swaping in
> and out of drives, you're bios needs to be told to rerecognize 1 or both
> hard drives. I used to have a machine where this was an issue; if you
> didn't touch ide drives, everything was fine, if you hooked up a new
> drive, or simply removed an existing one, you had to go into bios, and
> set the hds to auto again, else it wouldn't acknowledge the drives are
> there. Note that just because your livecd is seeing the drives doesn't
> matter, since linux does it's drive detection and handling without
> relying purely on what the bios has to say.
> 
> Perhaps if you can describe what you are, and are not able to boot,
> and if you can have a sightling verify hd setup in bios, we can try to
> help more.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 02:57:59PM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > Well, things are even worse now.  In trying to isolate my problem, I
> > took out the new drive that I was installing linux on and replaced it
> > with my original (second drive) which had my old working slackware on
> > it and I still can't boot.  With my original drive, I even did a lilo
> > -r /mnt from my slackware CD and that appeared to go fine; I can't say
> > I've ever experienced this kind of problem before.  I'm trying to do
> > everything to avoid having to completely re-install windows.  I
> > unfortunately need windows on my box for some time yet.  For whatever
> > reason, my MBR won't take the loader or won't boot for me.
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Alex Snow]

Have you tried running fixboot and fixmbr from the windows recovery 
console? Also Testdisk has some options for fixing problem MBRs, 
though I haven't used any of them yet.
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 02:57:59PM 
-0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> Well, things are even worse now.  In trying to isolate my problem, I
> took out the new drive that I was installing linux on and replaced it
> with my original (second drive) which had my old working slackware on
> it and I still can't boot.  With my original drive, I even did a lilo
> - -r /mnt from my slackware CD and that appeared to go fine; I can't say
> I've ever experienced this kind of problem before.  I'm trying to do
> everything to avoid having to completely re-install windows.  I
> unfortunately need windows on my box for some time yet.  For whatever
> reason, my MBR won't take the loader or won't boot for me.
> 
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:32:08PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 03:55:44AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> > > The solution is to  
> > > not chroot.  Instead, mount your boot partition under /boot or /mnt/boot  
> > > and change your lilo.conf as needed temporarily.  Run something like:
> > >
> > > lilo -C /mnt/etc/lilo.conf
> > >
> > > That should hopefully work, or at least give a useful error message.   
> > 
> > After you've got your lilo.conf setup the way you want, don't forget
> > to do
> > lilo -r /mnt
> > to reinstall lilo.
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> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
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-- 
If Bill Gates is the Devil then Linus Torvalds must be the Messiah.
	-- Unknown source

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Steve Holmes]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

No I haven't but I have since then, been able to boot into Windows
also.  I just use a floppy right now.:) I think I need to set the boot
sequence up again in that inaccessible BIOS. <sigh>

But thanks for the suggested tools in the event I do have to fix a
busted windows partition.

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 10:30:23PM -0400, Alex Snow wrote:
> Have you tried running fixboot and fixmbr from the windows recovery 
> console? Also Testdisk has some options for fixing problem MBRs, 
> though I haven't used any of them yet.

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Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Kerry Hoath]

I can answer one of your questions easily enough.
"What the hell does lilo have to do with raid?"
Quite a lot actually. As you probably know; unless you have bios support and 
devicemapper set to handle those bios fakeraid situations you can only boot 
from a raid1 array, i.e. 1 or more drives beeing mirrored.
Yes 1 drive is a valid raid1 array with no redundancy.
On my raid box, I have 7 drives; each having a 200 meg /boot partition on 
them.

If I tell Lilo that /boot is in fact on an md device it will insure that 
_all_ of the boot sectors on the raid devices are updated when I run Lilo, 
all 7 of them.
It can also place the same code on all 7 mbrs so that if a disk fails and I 
pull it out; the system will still boot.
RAID isn't much good if the system it is running on fails to boot with the 
loss of a drive.

Of course the rest of the partitions on that box are raid5 and there's a 
raid10 section for swap but it is important that Lilo keeps the boot 
information consistant across all drives.
The other thing Lilo can do is mark all boot sectors as using bios drive 
0x80 on all drives to boot the operating system. This means that if drive 0 
(0x80 usually) fails, drive 1 becomes drive 0 and therefor 0x80.


To load sectors from disks at boot time the bios uses int 0x13 and loads the 
drive letter into the dl register. numbers 0 through 0x7f are considered 
floppy drives etc, drives above 0x80 (or 128 decimal) are the first second 
3rd etc hard disks.

Modern bioses allow you to set the boot order so that whatever drive you 
like shows as 0x80, either hard disks or usb external hard disks if you 
like.
Whilst modern bioses use LBA and soe does grub, Linux needs to know which 
drive it is pulling the boot code from for example the first or second drive 
etc.
Drives can be detected in a different order in Linux as to that in Windows, 
which is why there are mechanisms to override the /dev/xdx mappings to bios 
drive numbers.

Note that Linux treats IDE drives as scsi if you are using libata to control 
your drives; this has been true for most chipsets since kernel 2.6.12 or so.
/dev/hdx is used for chips that are not under libata control.
libata is the new device framework that supports amung other things, hotplug 
sata, sata power management and command queuing, and advanced drive power 
management.

If you upgrade from a system that used the old disk drivers your drives will 
change names from /dev/hdx to /dev/sdx.
If everything goes correctly which it often does, you get /dev/hda to 
/dev/sda however if you only hav /dev/hdc it becomes /dev/sdb as the sd a 
through z increase monotomically with each drive detected.

Note that with udev and initial ram disks and the like present in most 
modern Linux distributions only a subset of device nodes exist in 
/dev/.static and udev creates devices as the kernel initializes hardware and 
populates an in memory copy of /dev

You can get around some of this problem in lilo by specifying devices by 
there major and minor numbers, root=0x0801
however it is much cleaner to fix the mappings in the boot loader.

There is no way of getting around fiddling in bios config however there are 
accessible bioses; those that can send bios setup out through a serial port 
or similar. Problem is they only work on a subset of system boards, however 
googling for openbios might be of value.

There is also now a PCI version of the pc-wiesel card that will send video 
output through a serial port; they're not cheap though.
I am lucky enough to get my wife to read bioses to me when necessary.

Regards, Kerry.

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Kerry Hoath]

One thing I forgot to mention with grub 0.9x when doing a raid1 array you 
must install grub to each drive by hand, and in many cases mapping all 
drives say /dev/sda through g to bios drive 0x80.
Regards, Kerry.

Re: New Debian Install - HELP!

[Gregory Nowak]

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Hash: SHA1

How are you using the windows recovery console? Do you have some way
of accessing it with speech, or do you have someone sighted read you
the screen, or do you memorize the keystrokes you need, and hope you
don't screw up while using the recovery console that way?

Greg


On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 07:37:16PM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> No I haven't but I have since then, been able to boot into Windows
> also.  I just use a floppy right now.:) I think I need to set the boot
> sequence up again in that inaccessible BIOS. <sigh>
> 
> But thanks for the suggested tools in the event I do have to fix a
> busted windows partition.
> 


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