Slack 13.37 and 14.0

Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Mitchell D. Lynn]

Hi Folks,
New to this list and hoping you all can help with this problem.  I am having
issues with the last two versions of Slackware and getting Speakup at
install time. I have used Slackware back to version 7.0 with no issues. 

For some reason, I can't get Speakup to load on either of these releases.
Using DEC Talk Express. Tried speakup.s, huge.s and hugesmp.s since the
latter two appear to have Speakup as well. 

I desperately need to get to a version that supports 3TB hard drives.
Considered switching to Debian, but ran into a Speakup issue there too.
Seems to be stuck at a default rate, and it won't let me change it for
session or otherwise. 

Thanks for any help you can provide. 

ML

Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Tony Baechler]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Since no one answered, I'll try my luck.  I don't use Slackware and
haven't in a very long time.  If you're using hardware speech, Slack
probably ships a newer kernel after 2.6.37 with broken serial support.
The only two options are to use an older kernel or software speech.  I
don't think Slackware supports software speech, but Debian does.  If
you're running 32-bit, you might run into problems with big drives
regardless of the kernel.  I would recommend installing 64-bit Debian
Squeeze if your system can run 64-bit and upgrade to Wheezy from there.
That still lets you use the older kernel with hardware speech while giving
you the newer packages.  If you can use software speech, of course just
installing Debian Wheezy directly is the better option.  I've ran both
Debian Squeeze with the 2.6.32 kernel and Wheezy with the 3.2 kernel and
several 3 TB drives in a RAID array with no problems.  As I'm sure you
know, you probably don't want to use a 3 TB drive for boot.  I have a
separate 1 TB RAID array for my boot drive and I've had no problems.

In reading your message again, I have a question.  What happens with
Debian if you use the standard Speakup keys to change your rate and pitch?
 I use a DECtalk Express here and I've never had that problem.  In fact, I
worked on fixing the driver and William incorporated my fixes with his own
into the official Speakup module, so you should have a very good
experience.  Someone else has reported random rate and pitch drops, but
he's using a DECtalk USB.  I'm assuming you tried either the speakupconf
script in the speakup-tools package or added lines to /etc/rc.local to set
your rate and pitch, right?  If the standard Speakup keys aren't working,
you might have a keyboard issue or there might be a bug in D-I.  Did you
actually get Debian installed or is the problem you're having with the
install CD?

On 5/13/2013 10:06 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> New to this list and hoping you all can help with this problem.  I am
> having issues with the last two versions of Slackware and getting
> Speakup at install time. I have used Slackware back to version 7.0 with
> no issues.
> 
> For some reason, I can't get Speakup to load on either of these
> releases. Using DEC Talk Express. Tried speakup.s, huge.s and hugesmp.s
> since the latter two appear to have Speakup as well.
> 
> I desperately need to get to a version that supports 3TB hard drives. 
> Considered switching to Debian, but ran into a Speakup issue there
> too. Seems to be stuck at a default rate, and it won't let me change it
> for session or otherwise.
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RE: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Mitchell D. Lynn]

Thanks for the response. 

My rate change blues are post-install for Debian and while the Speakup keys
announce incremental rate changes, they don't actually change the rate. It
stays at 180 something . I'd have to go check to see. Now, if memory serves
me, the rate does change in the rate file for the synth. Changes in the rate
file have no affect on the rate whatsoever. I don't think it is a keyboard
issue because I have tried multiple keyboards: one was a PS2 connector and
the other two were USB. Same result with all, and all seem to work fine on
other systems. I will give 64-bit Wheezy a shot. 

RE The Slackware Issue
According to the Slackware docs on the DVD, those issues were back with
version 12.x FWIW, Slack 14 uses 3.2.29 kernel. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of Tony
Baechler
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 4:10 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Since no one answered, I'll try my luck.  I don't use Slackware and haven't
in a very long time.  If you're using hardware speech, Slack probably ships
a newer kernel after 2.6.37 with broken serial support.
The only two options are to use an older kernel or software speech.  I don't
think Slackware supports software speech, but Debian does.  If you're
running 32-bit, you might run into problems with big drives regardless of
the kernel.  I would recommend installing 64-bit Debian Squeeze if your
system can run 64-bit and upgrade to Wheezy from there.
That still lets you use the older kernel with hardware speech while giving
you the newer packages.  If you can use software speech, of course just
installing Debian Wheezy directly is the better option.  I've ran both
Debian Squeeze with the 2.6.32 kernel and Wheezy with the 3.2 kernel and
several 3 TB drives in a RAID array with no problems.  As I'm sure you know,
you probably don't want to use a 3 TB drive for boot.  I have a separate 1
TB RAID array for my boot drive and I've had no problems.

In reading your message again, I have a question.  What happens with Debian
if you use the standard Speakup keys to change your rate and pitch?
 I use a DECtalk Express here and I've never had that problem.  In fact, I
worked on fixing the driver and William incorporated my fixes with his own
into the official Speakup module, so you should have a very good experience.
Someone else has reported random rate and pitch drops, but he's using a
DECtalk USB.  I'm assuming you tried either the speakupconf script in the
speakup-tools package or added lines to /etc/rc.local to set your rate and
pitch, right?  If the standard Speakup keys aren't working, you might have a
keyboard issue or there might be a bug in D-I.  Did you actually get Debian
installed or is the problem you're having with the install CD?

On 5/13/2013 10:06 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> New to this list and hoping you all can help with this problem.  I am 
> having issues with the last two versions of Slackware and getting 
> Speakup at install time. I have used Slackware back to version 7.0 
> with no issues.
> 
> For some reason, I can't get Speakup to load on either of these 
> releases. Using DEC Talk Express. Tried speakup.s, huge.s and 
> hugesmp.s since the latter two appear to have Speakup as well.
> 
> I desperately need to get to a version that supports 3TB hard drives. 
> Considered switching to Debian, but ran into a Speakup issue there 
> too. Seems to be stuck at a default rate, and it won't let me change 
> it for session or otherwise.
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Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Tony Baechler]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

The 3.2 kernel with Speakup has the broken serial support, so no hardware
speech for you with kernels after 2.6.37 which is why I suggested
installing Debian Squeeze.  What Speakup parameter are you passing to the
installer?  I agree that I don't think it's a keyboard issue, but that's
very weird.  I'm wondering if you're passing the wrong synthesizer
parameter.  If you try 64-bit Wheezy with software speech, do you have the
same problem?  That's very strange.  You might want to join the
debian-accessibility list, especially if you found a bug in D-I.  I'm
trying to isolate whether it's a Speakup or a Debian issue.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think 32-bit kernels can support drives
larger than 2 TB.  I'm sure I'll be corrected if that's wrong, but I did
quite a bit of research before upgrading my server to 3 TB drives.  The
problem seems to have to do with very large partitions.  You really need
GPT for drives larger than 2 TB because the standard X86 architecture
can't access sectors past the 2 TB boundary.  It's not an OS issue, but a
BIOS design issue.  I think you'll have problems with any 32-bit OS you
try.  If your processor isn't 64-bit, you're either out of luck or you'll
need a new processor.

On 5/14/2013 7:03 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> Thanks for the response.
> 
> My rate change blues are post-install for Debian and while the Speakup
> keys announce incremental rate changes, they don't actually change the
> rate. It stays at 180 something . I'd have to go check to see. Now, if
> memory serves me, the rate does change in the rate file for the synth.
> Changes in the rate file have no affect on the rate whatsoever. I don't
> think it is a keyboard issue because I have tried multiple keyboards:
> one was a PS2 connector and the other two were USB. Same result with
> all, and all seem to work fine on other systems. I will give 64-bit
> Wheezy a shot.
> 
> RE The Slackware Issue According to the Slackware docs on the DVD,
> those issues were back with version 12.x FWIW, Slack 14 uses 3.2.29
> kernel.
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RE: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Mitchell D. Lynn]

Thanks for the info on the 3.2 kernels. That, then, is the issue. 

RE Debian: Looks like there has been a new release since I last looked.
Grabbed the Wheezy release and installed on a test system last night.
Software synth works fine on that machine. No serial port on this system to
test with DEC. I will see how it does on the main server later this week
when I can have it down for an extended period. I can live with a software
synth as long as I can get boot messages, and serial ports are getting
harder to find on modern mainboards.   


-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of Tony
Baechler
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:41 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

The 3.2 kernel with Speakup has the broken serial support, so no hardware
speech for you with kernels after 2.6.37 which is why I suggested installing
Debian Squeeze.  What Speakup parameter are you passing to the installer?  I
agree that I don't think it's a keyboard issue, but that's very weird.  I'm
wondering if you're passing the wrong synthesizer parameter.  If you try
64-bit Wheezy with software speech, do you have the same problem?  That's
very strange.  You might want to join the debian-accessibility list,
especially if you found a bug in D-I.  I'm trying to isolate whether it's a
Speakup or a Debian issue.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think 32-bit kernels can support drives
larger than 2 TB.  I'm sure I'll be corrected if that's wrong, but I did
quite a bit of research before upgrading my server to 3 TB drives.  The
problem seems to have to do with very large partitions.  You really need GPT
for drives larger than 2 TB because the standard X86 architecture can't
access sectors past the 2 TB boundary.  It's not an OS issue, but a BIOS
design issue.  I think you'll have problems with any 32-bit OS you try.  If
your processor isn't 64-bit, you're either out of luck or you'll need a new
processor.

On 5/14/2013 7:03 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> Thanks for the response.
> 
> My rate change blues are post-install for Debian and while the Speakup 
> keys announce incremental rate changes, they don't actually change the 
> rate. It stays at 180 something . I'd have to go check to see. Now, if 
> memory serves me, the rate does change in the rate file for the synth.
> Changes in the rate file have no affect on the rate whatsoever. I 
> don't think it is a keyboard issue because I have tried multiple
keyboards:
> one was a PS2 connector and the other two were USB. Same result with 
> all, and all seem to work fine on other systems. I will give 64-bit 
> Wheezy a shot.
> 
> RE The Slackware Issue According to the Slackware docs on the DVD, 
> those issues were back with version 12.x FWIW, Slack 14 uses 3.2.29 
> kernel.
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_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
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Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Tony Baechler]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

No, you're still not understanding.  Debian Wheezy has the 3.2 kernel, so
no serial support.  That's why I suggested installing Squeeze and
upgrading to Wheezy.  That way you can run the 2.6.32 kernel with newer
packages and still have serial support.  No, you won't get most boot
messages with software speech because it takes a while for sound drivers
to load.  I have both kernels installed here so I can get hardware speech
if my system becomes unbootable.  I had no problem finding a motherboard
with a serial port last August.  You have to look for server motherboards,
but they're not that hard to find.

On 5/15/2013 7:15 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> Thanks for the info on the 3.2 kernels. That, then, is the issue.
> 
> RE Debian: Looks like there has been a new release since I last
> looked. Grabbed the Wheezy release and installed on a test system last
> night. Software synth works fine on that machine. No serial port on
> this system to test with DEC. I will see how it does on the main server
> later this week when I can have it down for an extended period. I can
> live with a software synth as long as I can get boot messages, and
> serial ports are getting harder to find on modern mainboards.
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RE: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Mitchell D. Lynn]

I realized my interpretative error after I posted my reply. I should know
better than to write before coffee intake has reached a certain level. 

Thanks for the tip on "server" mainboards. I wasn't looking in that
direction.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of Tony
Baechler
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:37 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

No, you're still not understanding.  Debian Wheezy has the 3.2 kernel, so no
serial support.  That's why I suggested installing Squeeze and upgrading to
Wheezy.  That way you can run the 2.6.32 kernel with newer packages and
still have serial support.  No, you won't get most boot messages with
software speech because it takes a while for sound drivers to load.  I have
both kernels installed here so I can get hardware speech if my system
becomes unbootable.  I had no problem finding a motherboard with a serial
port last August.  You have to look for server motherboards, but they're not
that hard to find.

On 5/15/2013 7:15 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> Thanks for the info on the 3.2 kernels. That, then, is the issue.
> 
> RE Debian: Looks like there has been a new release since I last 
> looked. Grabbed the Wheezy release and installed on a test system last 
> night. Software synth works fine on that machine. No serial port on 
> this system to test with DEC. I will see how it does on the main 
> server later this week when I can have it down for an extended period. 
> I can live with a software synth as long as I can get boot messages, 
> and serial ports are getting harder to find on modern mainboards.
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[covici]

Most motherboards have the serial headers, just not brought out to the
back.

Tony Baechler <tony@baechler.net> wrote:

> No, you're still not understanding.  Debian Wheezy has the 3.2 kernel, so
> no serial support.  That's why I suggested installing Squeeze and
> upgrading to Wheezy.  That way you can run the 2.6.32 kernel with newer
> packages and still have serial support.  No, you won't get most boot
> messages with software speech because it takes a while for sound drivers
> to load.  I have both kernels installed here so I can get hardware speech
> if my system becomes unbootable.  I had no problem finding a motherboard
> with a serial port last August.  You have to look for server motherboards,
> but they're not that hard to find.
> 
> On 5/15/2013 7:15 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> > Thanks for the info on the 3.2 kernels. That, then, is the issue.
> > 
> > RE Debian: Looks like there has been a new release since I last
> > looked. Grabbed the Wheezy release and installed on a test system last
> > night. Software synth works fine on that machine. No serial port on
> > this system to test with DEC. I will see how it does on the main server
> > later this week when I can have it down for an extended period. I can
> > live with a software synth as long as I can get boot messages, and
> > serial ports are getting harder to find on modern mainboards.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

RE: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Mitchell D. Lynn]

I don't know about "most mainboards," but none of those I have looked at in
the flesh over the past 12-months or so have had any serial connections at
all.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of
covici@ccs.covici.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 11:40 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

Most motherboards have the serial headers, just not brought out to the back.

Tony Baechler <tony@baechler.net> wrote:

> No, you're still not understanding.  Debian Wheezy has the 3.2 kernel, 
> so no serial support.  That's why I suggested installing Squeeze and 
> upgrading to Wheezy.  That way you can run the 2.6.32 kernel with 
> newer packages and still have serial support.  No, you won't get most 
> boot messages with software speech because it takes a while for sound 
> drivers to load.  I have both kernels installed here so I can get 
> hardware speech if my system becomes unbootable.  I had no problem 
> finding a motherboard with a serial port last August.  You have to 
> look for server motherboards, but they're not that hard to find.
> 
> On 5/15/2013 7:15 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> > Thanks for the info on the 3.2 kernels. That, then, is the issue.
> > 
> > RE Debian: Looks like there has been a new release since I last 
> > looked. Grabbed the Wheezy release and installed on a test system 
> > last night. Software synth works fine on that machine. No serial 
> > port on this system to test with DEC. I will see how it does on the 
> > main server later this week when I can have it down for an extended 
> > period. I can live with a software synth as long as I can get boot 
> > messages, and serial ports are getting harder to find on modern
mainboards.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

--
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[covici]

Did you look at the specs to see if they had the headers -- what they
seem to be doing these days is have the headers without a cable or
bracket, so you have to bring it out to a slot on the back of the unit.

Mitchell D. Lynn <mlynn@kc.rr.com> wrote:

> I don't know about "most mainboards," but none of those I have looked at in
> the flesh over the past 12-months or so have had any serial connections at
> all.  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of
> covici@ccs.covici.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 11:40 AM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0
> 
> Most motherboards have the serial headers, just not brought out to the back.
> 
> Tony Baechler <tony@baechler.net> wrote:
> 
> > No, you're still not understanding.  Debian Wheezy has the 3.2 kernel, 
> > so no serial support.  That's why I suggested installing Squeeze and 
> > upgrading to Wheezy.  That way you can run the 2.6.32 kernel with 
> > newer packages and still have serial support.  No, you won't get most 
> > boot messages with software speech because it takes a while for sound 
> > drivers to load.  I have both kernels installed here so I can get 
> > hardware speech if my system becomes unbootable.  I had no problem 
> > finding a motherboard with a serial port last August.  You have to 
> > look for server motherboards, but they're not that hard to find.
> > 
> > On 5/15/2013 7:15 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> > > Thanks for the info on the 3.2 kernels. That, then, is the issue.
> > > 
> > > RE Debian: Looks like there has been a new release since I last 
> > > looked. Grabbed the Wheezy release and installed on a test system 
> > > last night. Software synth works fine on that machine. No serial 
> > > port on this system to test with DEC. I will see how it does on the 
> > > main server later this week when I can have it down for an extended 
> > > period. I can live with a software synth as long as I can get boot 
> > > messages, and serial ports are getting harder to find on modern
> mainboards.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> --
> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> How do
> you spend it?
> 
>          John Covici
>          covici@ccs.covici.com
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

RE: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Mitchell D. Lynn]

The shops I visited had systems built with those boards, and we checked CMOS
to see if they were listed there as well as in manuals. They also looked at
the board, and nothing indicated there were serial connections at all. It's
something I will keep in mind in the future. Usually buy my stuff online;
looks like I will again have to face those odious PDF files. 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of
covici@ccs.covici.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:42 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

Did you look at the specs to see if they had the headers -- what they seem
to be doing these days is have the headers without a cable or bracket, so
you have to bring it out to a slot on the back of the unit.

Mitchell D. Lynn <mlynn@kc.rr.com> wrote:

> I don't know about "most mainboards," but none of those I have looked 
> at in the flesh over the past 12-months or so have had any serial 
> connections at all.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of 
> covici@ccs.covici.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 11:40 AM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0
> 
> Most motherboards have the serial headers, just not brought out to the
back.
> 
> Tony Baechler <tony@baechler.net> wrote:
> 
> > No, you're still not understanding.  Debian Wheezy has the 3.2 
> > kernel, so no serial support.  That's why I suggested installing 
> > Squeeze and upgrading to Wheezy.  That way you can run the 2.6.32 
> > kernel with newer packages and still have serial support.  No, you 
> > won't get most boot messages with software speech because it takes a 
> > while for sound drivers to load.  I have both kernels installed here 
> > so I can get hardware speech if my system becomes unbootable.  I had 
> > no problem finding a motherboard with a serial port last August.  
> > You have to look for server motherboards, but they're not that hard to
find.
> > 
> > On 5/15/2013 7:15 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> > > Thanks for the info on the 3.2 kernels. That, then, is the issue.
> > > 
> > > RE Debian: Looks like there has been a new release since I last 
> > > looked. Grabbed the Wheezy release and installed on a test system 
> > > last night. Software synth works fine on that machine. No serial 
> > > port on this system to test with DEC. I will see how it does on 
> > > the main server later this week when I can have it down for an 
> > > extended period. I can live with a software synth as long as I can 
> > > get boot messages, and serial ports are getting harder to find on 
> > > modern
> mainboards.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> --
> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> How do
> you spend it?
> 
>          John Covici
>          covici@ccs.covici.com
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

--
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Onboard serial ports

[Tony Baechler]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Well, I guess I'm just lucky.  I found a motherboard with a serial port
right off the bat on Amazon last August.  I just searched for server
motherboard with serial port and it came right up.  I didn't look at any
pdf files.  Sure enough, it has a normal, regular serial port which worked
fine when I did my Debian install.  I really don't get why there seems to
be so much trouble finding such a thing.  As I said, maybe I'm just lucky.
 I've found that the dedicated computer sites are useless.  I had much
better luck with Amazon.  I wouldn't bother with the shops, but I'm lazy.

On 5/15/2013 6:38 PM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> The shops I visited had systems built with those boards, and we checked
> CMOS to see if they were listed there as well as in manuals. They also
> looked at the board, and nothing indicated there were serial
> connections at all. It's something I will keep in mind in the future.
> Usually buy my stuff online; looks like I will again have to face those
> odious PDF files.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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Re: Onboard serial ports

[John G. Heim]

Right but if you  buy your own motherboard, then you have to put it 
together yourself. A lot of people aren't up to that.  And if you buy a 
machine or even have one built for you in a shop, their mobos might not 
have an exposed serial port or even the header block. The shop is 
probably buying the cheapest mobos they can and they might not have a 
serial port header block.

Personally, I don't buy a server class mobo when I build. I buy a 
workstation mobo with the header block and use an adapter to bring it 
out to the case. It doesn't cost any extra to do that any more because I 
just salvage the adapter from an old machine when I build a new one.

Another thing I'd recommend is going to a used computer store and buying 
a slightly older high-end machine. The Dell workstations we buy for the 
University of Wisconsin all still come with serial ports exposed on the 
back. You can get a dual-core machine at the University's used computer 
store for $100 and it'll run linux/orca just fine.

Before I started shopping at the University's used computer store,  I 
used to shop at this place where I'd leave them a note with 
specifications on the machine I wanted and they'd call me when a machine 
matching my specs came in. They were always happy to do that.

On 05/16/13 04:17, Tony Baechler wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Well, I guess I'm just lucky.  I found a motherboard with a serial port
> right off the bat on Amazon last August.  I just searched for server
> motherboard with serial port and it came right up.  I didn't look at any
> pdf files.  Sure enough, it has a normal, regular serial port which worked
> fine when I did my Debian install.  I really don't get why there seems to
> be so much trouble finding such a thing.  As I said, maybe I'm just lucky.
>   I've found that the dedicated computer sites are useless.  I had much
> better luck with Amazon.  I wouldn't bother with the shops, but I'm lazy.
>
> On 5/15/2013 6:38 PM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
>> The shops I visited had systems built with those boards, and we checked
>> CMOS to see if they were listed there as well as in manuals. They also
>> looked at the board, and nothing indicated there were serial
>> connections at all. It's something I will keep in mind in the future.
>> Usually buy my stuff online; looks like I will again have to face those
>> odious PDF files.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
---
John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu

RE: Onboard serial ports

[Mitchell D. Lynn]

The problem I have with shops building the equip is being certain I am
making myself understood and that I am getting what I paid for and exactly
what I paid for. I'd rather buy the components and build it myself. 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of John
G. Heim
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:21 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Onboard serial ports

Right but if you  buy your own motherboard, then you have to put it together
yourself. A lot of people aren't up to that.  And if you buy a machine or
even have one built for you in a shop, their mobos might not have an exposed
serial port or even the header block. The shop is probably buying the
cheapest mobos they can and they might not have a serial port header block.

Personally, I don't buy a server class mobo when I build. I buy a
workstation mobo with the header block and use an adapter to bring it out to
the case. It doesn't cost any extra to do that any more because I just
salvage the adapter from an old machine when I build a new one.

Another thing I'd recommend is going to a used computer store and buying a
slightly older high-end machine. The Dell workstations we buy for the
University of Wisconsin all still come with serial ports exposed on the
back. You can get a dual-core machine at the University's used computer
store for $100 and it'll run linux/orca just fine.

Before I started shopping at the University's used computer store,  I used
to shop at this place where I'd leave them a note with specifications on the
machine I wanted and they'd call me when a machine matching my specs came
in. They were always happy to do that.

On 05/16/13 04:17, Tony Baechler wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Well, I guess I'm just lucky.  I found a motherboard with a serial 
> port right off the bat on Amazon last August.  I just searched for 
> server motherboard with serial port and it came right up.  I didn't 
> look at any pdf files.  Sure enough, it has a normal, regular serial 
> port which worked fine when I did my Debian install.  I really don't 
> get why there seems to be so much trouble finding such a thing.  As I
said, maybe I'm just lucky.
>   I've found that the dedicated computer sites are useless.  I had 
> much better luck with Amazon.  I wouldn't bother with the shops, but I'm
lazy.
>
> On 5/15/2013 6:38 PM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
>> The shops I visited had systems built with those boards, and we 
>> checked CMOS to see if they were listed there as well as in manuals. 
>> They also looked at the board, and nothing indicated there were 
>> serial connections at all. It's something I will keep in mind in the
future.
>> Usually buy my stuff online; looks like I will again have to face 
>> those odious PDF files.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
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> =OdzS
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--
---
John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Onboard serial ports

[Jason White]

John G. Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
> Right but if you  buy your own motherboard, then you have to put it
> together yourself. A lot of people aren't up to that.  And if you
> buy a machine or even have one built for you in a shop, their mobos
> might not have an exposed serial port or even the header block. The
> shop is probably buying the cheapest mobos they can and they might
> not have a serial port header block.

There are online suppliers (at least around here) that let you select all of
the components from a huge catalogue and who will then assemble the machine
for you and ship it out by courier.

My current machine, though, is an HP workstation, an ex-demonstration machine
that I bought from a distributor at a large discount.

A serial port is standard even with the latest models.

Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[John G. Heim]

The shop didn't just know whether the motherboards they use have a 
serial port header block? That's a little scary in itself. I guess maybe 
it never came up. But that would worry me a little. Do you know what 
brand of motherboards they use? I know Asus mobos usually have the 
serial port header block.

I just built a PC with an Asus mobo. While I was selecting a mobo on 
newegg, I picked out several and asked around about them. I didn't have 
any trouble finding mobos with the serial header.


On 05/15/13 20:38, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> The shops I visited had systems built with those boards, and we checked CMOS
> to see if they were listed there as well as in manuals. They also looked at
> the board, and nothing indicated there were serial connections at all. It's
> something I will keep in mind in the future. Usually buy my stuff online;
> looks like I will again have to face those odious PDF files.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of
> covici@ccs.covici.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:42 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0
>
> Did you look at the specs to see if they had the headers -- what they seem
> to be doing these days is have the headers without a cable or bracket, so
> you have to bring it out to a slot on the back of the unit.
>
> Mitchell D. Lynn <mlynn@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know about "most mainboards," but none of those I have looked
>> at in the flesh over the past 12-months or so have had any serial
>> connections at all.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of
>> covici@ccs.covici.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 11:40 AM
>> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>> Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0
>>
>> Most motherboards have the serial headers, just not brought out to the
> back.
>>
>> Tony Baechler <tony@baechler.net> wrote:
>>
>>> No, you're still not understanding.  Debian Wheezy has the 3.2
>>> kernel, so no serial support.  That's why I suggested installing
>>> Squeeze and upgrading to Wheezy.  That way you can run the 2.6.32
>>> kernel with newer packages and still have serial support.  No, you
>>> won't get most boot messages with software speech because it takes a
>>> while for sound drivers to load.  I have both kernels installed here
>>> so I can get hardware speech if my system becomes unbootable.  I had
>>> no problem finding a motherboard with a serial port last August.
>>> You have to look for server motherboards, but they're not that hard to
> find.
>>>
>>> On 5/15/2013 7:15 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
>>>> Thanks for the info on the 3.2 kernels. That, then, is the issue.
>>>>
>>>> RE Debian: Looks like there has been a new release since I last
>>>> looked. Grabbed the Wheezy release and installed on a test system
>>>> last night. Software synth works fine on that machine. No serial
>>>> port on this system to test with DEC. I will see how it does on
>>>> the main server later this week when I can have it down for an
>>>> extended period. I can live with a software synth as long as I can
>>>> get boot messages, and serial ports are getting harder to find on
>>>> modern
>> mainboards.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>> --
>> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
>> How do
>> you spend it?
>>
>>           John Covici
>>           covici@ccs.covici.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> How do
> you spend it?
>
>           John Covici
>           covici@ccs.covici.com
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
---
John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu

Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Adam Myrow]

Ok, I am using the kernel that ships with Debian 7.0, which is listed as 
3.2.0-4-686-pae.  My Dectalk USB works just as it always has in RS232 
mode.  In other words, serial support isn't broken for me.  This is the 
32-bit version, so maybe that's the difference.

RE: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Mitchell D. Lynn]

I hadn't tried Debian 7. It turns out I had version 6 where the DEC Express
worked, but it slower speech and no means I could find to speed it up. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of Adam
Myrow
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 5:46 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

Ok, I am using the kernel that ships with Debian 7.0, which is listed as
3.2.0-4-686-pae.  My Dectalk USB works just as it always has in RS232 mode.
In other words, serial support isn't broken for me.  This is the 32-bit
version, so maybe that's the difference.
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors

[Tony Baechler]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Ah, that's what I've been wondering about.  I've asked various people here
who claim to have working hardware speech, but never got a response.  My
question is if they're running 32-bit or not.  I can not only confirm that
it won't work on 64-bit systems but if I try to unload speakup_soft and
load speakup_ltlk, it completely locks up the system.  Someone else said
they didn't have any problem with serial speech with new kernels and a
32-bit processor, but I couldn't get it confirmed.  Now, my question is
what difference would a 64-bit processor make?  Why does it completely
lock up here but seems to work for at least three people on older 32-bit
processors?  I'm tempted to install 32-bit Debian Wheezy just to see if it
makes any difference.  I can say that it doesn't seem to matter on a
32-bit live CD here.

On 5/15/2013 3:45 PM, Adam Myrow wrote:
> Ok, I am using the kernel that ships with Debian 7.0, which is listed
> as 3.2.0-4-686-pae.  My Dectalk USB works just as it always has in
> RS232 mode. In other words, serial support isn't broken for me.  This
> is the 32-bit version, so maybe that's the difference. 
> _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list 
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org 
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
Have a good day,
Tony Baechler
tony@baechler.net
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Re: Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors

[Kitty Litter]

I recently compiled kernel version 3.9.2 and got speakup working with my 
audapter serial synth on a debian 32 bit system. I removed the error 
checking about stealing ports and also modified spk_serial_release by 
commenting out synth_release_region. This fixed a problem where the synth 
wouldn't get released and speakup-soft wouldn't work. I don't care enough to 
try this on a 64 bit system.

Re: Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors

[John G. Heim]

Are you saying you can't get your doubletalk to work at all or only if 
you load the speakup_sot module before loading the speakup_ltlk module? 
I don't know if I've ever tried that. But  I have a 64 bit machine 
running squeeze and another running wheezy. Speakup works with my 
doubletalk on either  machine if I load the speakup_ltlk module 
directly. On the squeeze, I'm running a kernel from squeeze-backports 
and on the wheezy machine, I'm running the stock kernel. Here  is what 
uname -r says on each;
squeeze: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
wheezy: 3.2.0-4-amd64

My doubletalk also works with the 64-bit grml live CD.   As I said, I'm 
not entirely sure I ever tried loading the speakup_ltlk module after 
speakup_soft. I would have to say that I have though because I put 
speakup_soft in /etc/modules so it loads during boot.

On 05/16/13 04:07, Tony Baechler wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Ah, that's what I've been wondering about.  I've asked various people here
> who claim to have working hardware speech, but never got a response.  My
> question is if they're running 32-bit or not.  I can not only confirm that
> it won't work on 64-bit systems but if I try to unload speakup_soft and
> load speakup_ltlk, it completely locks up the system.  Someone else said
> they didn't have any problem with serial speech with new kernels and a
> 32-bit processor, but I couldn't get it confirmed.  Now, my question is
> what difference would a 64-bit processor make?  Why does it completely
> lock up here but seems to work for at least three people on older 32-bit
> processors?  I'm tempted to install 32-bit Debian Wheezy just to see if it
> makes any difference.  I can say that it doesn't seem to matter on a
> 32-bit live CD here.
>
> On 5/15/2013 3:45 PM, Adam Myrow wrote:
>> Ok, I am using the kernel that ships with Debian 7.0, which is listed
>> as 3.2.0-4-686-pae.  My Dectalk USB works just as it always has in
>> RS232 mode. In other words, serial support isn't broken for me.  This
>> is the 32-bit version, so maybe that's the difference.
>> _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> - --
> Have a good day,
> Tony Baechler
> tony@baechler.net
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
---
John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu

Re: Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors

[Ryan Hutchings]

Hi John,

Did your doubletalk work during wheezy installation as well?

I tried using my doubletalk lt with Wheezy 64 bit to install, and got no 
speech.
I also tried the latest grml live 64 bit cd, and got no speech after doing a 
modprobe speakup_ltlk.

I wonder what determines when speakup will work with hardware speech? if it 
works on your 64bit system it can't be a 64bit thing.
I tried this on a laptop if that makes any differences?
Maybe a device in my laptop interferes with the speakup serial code - i.e. a 
device is using the i/o address that speakup normally associates with a 
serial port?

Ryan

-----Original Message----- 
From: John G. Heim
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 3:59 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors

Are you saying you can't get your doubletalk to work at all or only if
you load the speakup_sot module before loading the speakup_ltlk module?
I don't know if I've ever tried that. But  I have a 64 bit machine
running squeeze and another running wheezy. Speakup works with my
doubletalk on either  machine if I load the speakup_ltlk module
directly. On the squeeze, I'm running a kernel from squeeze-backports
and on the wheezy machine, I'm running the stock kernel. Here  is what
uname -r says on each;
squeeze: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
wheezy: 3.2.0-4-amd64

My doubletalk also works with the 64-bit grml live CD.   As I said, I'm
not entirely sure I ever tried loading the speakup_ltlk module after
speakup_soft. I would have to say that I have though because I put
speakup_soft in /etc/modules so it loads during boot.

On 05/16/13 04:07, Tony Baechler wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Ah, that's what I've been wondering about.  I've asked various people here
> who claim to have working hardware speech, but never got a response.  My
> question is if they're running 32-bit or not.  I can not only confirm that
> it won't work on 64-bit systems but if I try to unload speakup_soft and
> load speakup_ltlk, it completely locks up the system.  Someone else said
> they didn't have any problem with serial speech with new kernels and a
> 32-bit processor, but I couldn't get it confirmed.  Now, my question is
> what difference would a 64-bit processor make?  Why does it completely
> lock up here but seems to work for at least three people on older 32-bit
> processors?  I'm tempted to install 32-bit Debian Wheezy just to see if it
> makes any difference.  I can say that it doesn't seem to matter on a
> 32-bit live CD here.
>
> On 5/15/2013 3:45 PM, Adam Myrow wrote:
>> Ok, I am using the kernel that ships with Debian 7.0, which is listed
>> as 3.2.0-4-686-pae.  My Dectalk USB works just as it always has in
>> RS232 mode. In other words, serial support isn't broken for me.  This
>> is the 32-bit version, so maybe that's the difference.
>> _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> - --
> Have a good day,
> Tony Baechler
> tony@baechler.net
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
---
John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re: Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors

[John G. Heim]

Yes, my doubletalk worked during installation. Some of the machines I have been working on do not have sound cards. 
I just took a wildass guess as to how to get the hardware synth working during the install. I figured if you pressed s for speech, you might press g for graphical install. Then I pressed tab and entered my speakup parms, "speakup.synth=ltlk". 

I may have gotten lucky but it worked.


install. 

On May 16, 2013, at 2:06 PM, Ryan Hutchings wrote:

> Hi John,
> 
> Did your doubletalk work during wheezy installation as well?
> 
> I tried using my doubletalk lt with Wheezy 64 bit to install, and got no speech.
> I also tried the latest grml live 64 bit cd, and got no speech after doing a modprobe speakup_ltlk.
> 
> I wonder what determines when speakup will work with hardware speech? if it works on your 64bit system it can't be a 64bit thing.
> I tried this on a laptop if that makes any differences?
> Maybe a device in my laptop interferes with the speakup serial code - i.e. a device is using the i/o address that speakup normally associates with a serial port?
> 
> Ryan
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 3:59 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors
> 
> Are you saying you can't get your doubletalk to work at all or only if
> you load the speakup_sot module before loading the speakup_ltlk module?
> I don't know if I've ever tried that. But  I have a 64 bit machine
> running squeeze and another running wheezy. Speakup works with my
> doubletalk on either  machine if I load the speakup_ltlk module
> directly. On the squeeze, I'm running a kernel from squeeze-backports
> and on the wheezy machine, I'm running the stock kernel. Here  is what
> uname -r says on each;
> squeeze: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
> wheezy: 3.2.0-4-amd64
> 
> My doubletalk also works with the 64-bit grml live CD.   As I said, I'm
> not entirely sure I ever tried loading the speakup_ltlk module after
> speakup_soft. I would have to say that I have though because I put
> speakup_soft in /etc/modules so it loads during boot.
> 
> On 05/16/13 04:07, Tony Baechler wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>> 
>> Ah, that's what I've been wondering about.  I've asked various people here
>> who claim to have working hardware speech, but never got a response.  My
>> question is if they're running 32-bit or not.  I can not only confirm that
>> it won't work on 64-bit systems but if I try to unload speakup_soft and
>> load speakup_ltlk, it completely locks up the system.  Someone else said
>> they didn't have any problem with serial speech with new kernels and a
>> 32-bit processor, but I couldn't get it confirmed.  Now, my question is
>> what difference would a 64-bit processor make?  Why does it completely
>> lock up here but seems to work for at least three people on older 32-bit
>> processors?  I'm tempted to install 32-bit Debian Wheezy just to see if it
>> makes any difference.  I can say that it doesn't seem to matter on a
>> 32-bit live CD here.
>> 
>> On 5/15/2013 3:45 PM, Adam Myrow wrote:
>>> Ok, I am using the kernel that ships with Debian 7.0, which is listed
>>> as 3.2.0-4-686-pae.  My Dectalk USB works just as it always has in
>>> RS232 mode. In other words, serial support isn't broken for me.  This
>>> is the 32-bit version, so maybe that's the difference.
>>> _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>> - --
>> Have a good day,
>> Tony Baechler
>> tony@baechler.net
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
> 
> -- 
> ---
> John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors

[Tony Baechler]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

I was using speakup_ltlk as an example.  I'm actually using the DECtalk
Express.  I installed Debian unstable a long time ago, so it's possible
that I ran into a bug which is now fixed.  I'm pretty sure it installed
kernel 3.2, but I would have to check.  Since I had no serial support, I
installed with software speech, so speakup_soft is loaded at boot.  X is
also loaded, but I don't have speech in X, so I don't think that's an
issue.  The broken X is apparently my fault as I installed the
gnome-desktop metapackage after D-I, so it doesn't bring in Orca
automatically.  If I go to a regular console and login as root, I get
software speech with Speakup.  If I kill espeakup and unload speakup_soft,
no problem.  As soon as I load speakup_dectlk, the system completely locks
up.  I know it's locked up because I can't reboot.  Trying to play any
sound or calling espeak by itself to produce speech results in silence.  I
have to do a hard reset.  I haven't tried it on my Wheezy server with
kernel 3.2 because I don't want it going down.  I do need to do a fresh
install of Wheezy though to see if some of these issues got fixed.  I
didn't report it as a bug because I assumed it had to do with the broken
serial support.

I can also add that I did test hardware speech with both the Ubuntu and
Wheezy live CDs.  I don't remember the Ubuntu version, but it was recent.
 I think it was 12.04 or 12.10, but I don't remember.  On the Wheezy live
CD, it definitely had kernel 3.2.  Since it doesn't load any Speakup
modules by default, it didn't lock up, but it didn't talk either.  I had
to install espeakup by hand which brought in the espeak packages and
seemed to work.  Since Squeeze still worked reliably, I used that for the
install to the server.  I still run 2.6.32 on my other Linux partition and
hardware speech works fine with my DECtalk Express.

On 5/16/2013 7:59 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
> Are you saying you can't get your doubletalk to work at all or only if
> you load the speakup_sot module before loading the speakup_ltlk module?
> I don't know if I've ever tried that. But  I have a 64 bit machine
> running squeeze and another running wheezy. Speakup works with my
> doubletalk on either machine if I load the speakup_ltlk module
> directly. On the squeeze, I'm running a kernel from squeeze-backports
> and on the wheezy machine, I'm running the stock kernel. Here  is what
> uname -r says on each; squeeze: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 wheezy:
> 3.2.0-4-amd64
> 
> My doubletalk also works with the 64-bit grml live CD.   As I said, I'm
> not entirely sure I ever tried loading the speakup_ltlk module after 
> speakup_soft. I would have to say that I have though because I put 
> speakup_soft in /etc/modules so it loads during boot.
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Re: Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors

[covici]

You can get hardware speech if you are willing to compile your kernel
and do a patch which is a temporary workaround for the problem.

Tony Baechler <tony@baechler.net> wrote:

> Ah, that's what I've been wondering about.  I've asked various people here
> who claim to have working hardware speech, but never got a response.  My
> question is if they're running 32-bit or not.  I can not only confirm that
> it won't work on 64-bit systems but if I try to unload speakup_soft and
> load speakup_ltlk, it completely locks up the system.  Someone else said
> they didn't have any problem with serial speech with new kernels and a
> 32-bit processor, but I couldn't get it confirmed.  Now, my question is
> what difference would a 64-bit processor make?  Why does it completely
> lock up here but seems to work for at least three people on older 32-bit
> processors?  I'm tempted to install 32-bit Debian Wheezy just to see if it
> makes any difference.  I can say that it doesn't seem to matter on a
> 32-bit live CD here.
> 
> On 5/15/2013 3:45 PM, Adam Myrow wrote:
> > Ok, I am using the kernel that ships with Debian 7.0, which is listed
> > as 3.2.0-4-686-pae.  My Dectalk USB works just as it always has in
> > RS232 mode. In other words, serial support isn't broken for me.  This
> > is the 32-bit version, so maybe that's the difference. 
> > _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list 
> > Speakup@linux-speakup.org 
> > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> Have a good day,
> Tony Baechler
> tony@baechler.net
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

RE: Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors

[Keith Wessel]

Does said patch also help with PCI serial ports, or is it only a fix for the
64-bit issue?

And where would one find this patch? Or are you simplying saying to patch
the kernel with the latest Speakup release?

Keith


-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of
covici@ccs.covici.com
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:28 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Serial ports with 32-bit vs. 64-bit processors

You can get hardware speech if you are willing to compile your kernel
and do a patch which is a temporary workaround for the problem.

Tony Baechler <tony@baechler.net> wrote:

> Ah, that's what I've been wondering about.  I've asked various people here
> who claim to have working hardware speech, but never got a response.  My
> question is if they're running 32-bit or not.  I can not only confirm that
> it won't work on 64-bit systems but if I try to unload speakup_soft and
> load speakup_ltlk, it completely locks up the system.  Someone else said
> they didn't have any problem with serial speech with new kernels and a
> 32-bit processor, but I couldn't get it confirmed.  Now, my question is
> what difference would a 64-bit processor make?  Why does it completely
> lock up here but seems to work for at least three people on older 32-bit
> processors?  I'm tempted to install 32-bit Debian Wheezy just to see if it
> makes any difference.  I can say that it doesn't seem to matter on a
> 32-bit live CD here.
> 
> On 5/15/2013 3:45 PM, Adam Myrow wrote:
> > Ok, I am using the kernel that ships with Debian 7.0, which is listed
> > as 3.2.0-4-686-pae.  My Dectalk USB works just as it always has in
> > RS232 mode. In other words, serial support isn't broken for me.  This
> > is the 32-bit version, so maybe that's the difference. 
> > _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list 
> > Speakup@linux-speakup.org 
> > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> Have a good day,
> Tony Baechler
> tony@baechler.net
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Gregory Nowak]

Will wheezy work under 2.6.32? My understanding is that the release
notes for wheezy tell you to upgrade the kernel first because some of
the new packages won't run properly, if at all, on the squeeze kernel.

Greg


On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 07:36:48AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> No, you're still not understanding.  Debian Wheezy has the 3.2 kernel, so
> no serial support.  That's why I suggested installing Squeeze and
> upgrading to Wheezy.  That way you can run the 2.6.32 kernel with newer
> packages and still have serial support.  No, you won't get most boot
> messages with software speech because it takes a while for sound drivers
> to load.  I have both kernels installed here so I can get hardware speech
> if my system becomes unbootable.  I had no problem finding a motherboard
> with a serial port last August.  You have to look for server motherboards,
> but they're not that hard to find.
> 


-- 
web site: http://www.gregn..net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn..net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)

--
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Tony Baechler]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

It worked fine for me.  Once I knew I had a working system, I took the
plunge and upgraded to 3.2 and had no problems, but I left 2.6.32
installed just in case.  I added a line to rc.local to speak the kernel
version via ESpeak just so I would know for sure that the system booted in
case speech didn't come up for whatever reason.  As of now, my system has
been up 164 days with kernel 3.2, but it worked fine with 2.6.32 as well.
 I did the install from the Squeeze live CD and upgraded from there to
testing which is now Wheezy.

On 5/15/2013 5:40 PM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Will wheezy work under 2.6.32? My understanding is that the release 
> notes for wheezy tell you to upgrade the kernel first because some of 
> the new packages won't run properly, if at all, on the squeeze kernel.
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Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Ryan Hutchings]

Hi Tony,

I am wanting to get debian squeeze as well to use hardware speech.
Where do i get squeeze from? i can't see it on the debian website (there 
seems to be no archive of old releases..)

Thanks,
Ryan

-----Original Message----- 
From: Tony Baechler
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:10 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Since no one answered, I'll try my luck.  I don't use Slackware and
haven't in a very long time.  If you're using hardware speech, Slack
probably ships a newer kernel after 2.6.37 with broken serial support.
The only two options are to use an older kernel or software speech.  I
don't think Slackware supports software speech, but Debian does.  If
you're running 32-bit, you might run into problems with big drives
regardless of the kernel.  I would recommend installing 64-bit Debian
Squeeze if your system can run 64-bit and upgrade to Wheezy from there.
That still lets you use the older kernel with hardware speech while giving
you the newer packages.  If you can use software speech, of course just
installing Debian Wheezy directly is the better option.  I've ran both
Debian Squeeze with the 2.6.32 kernel and Wheezy with the 3.2 kernel and
several 3 TB drives in a RAID array with no problems.  As I'm sure you
know, you probably don't want to use a 3 TB drive for boot.  I have a
separate 1 TB RAID array for my boot drive and I've had no problems.

In reading your message again, I have a question.  What happens with
Debian if you use the standard Speakup keys to change your rate and pitch?
I use a DECtalk Express here and I've never had that problem.  In fact, I
worked on fixing the driver and William incorporated my fixes with his own
into the official Speakup module, so you should have a very good
experience.  Someone else has reported random rate and pitch drops, but
he's using a DECtalk USB.  I'm assuming you tried either the speakupconf
script in the speakup-tools package or added lines to /etc/rc.local to set
your rate and pitch, right?  If the standard Speakup keys aren't working,
you might have a keyboard issue or there might be a bug in D-I.  Did you
actually get Debian installed or is the problem you're having with the
install CD?

On 5/13/2013 10:06 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
> New to this list and hoping you all can help with this problem.  I am
> having issues with the last two versions of Slackware and getting
> Speakup at install time. I have used Slackware back to version 7.0 with
> no issues.
>
> For some reason, I can't get Speakup to load on either of these
> releases. Using DEC Talk Express. Tried speakup.s, huge.s and hugesmp.s
> since the latter two appear to have Speakup as well.
>
> I desperately need to get to a version that supports 3TB hard drives.
> Considered switching to Debian, but ran into a Speakup issue there
> too. Seems to be stuck at a default rate, and it won't let me change it
> for session or otherwise.
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_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Debian Squeeze CDs

[Tony Baechler]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Please be more specific.  Are you looking for the live CD of Squeeze or
the install CDs?  If all else fails, I think I still have the live CD
here.  Here are the sites I have bookmarked:

http://live.debian.net/ for the live CD

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ for the latest D-I

http://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/debian-installer/ for the Squeeze
install CDs

Note that the live.debian.net site above has archives for both Squeeze and
Wheezy.  If you go to cdimage.debian.org, you won't see a link for the
archives, even though they're under the Squeeze release pages.  If you
have a 64-bit processor, you should get the AMD64 images.  They run better
and have better memory management.  Remember that even though Squeeze is
now considered old, you should still be able to install it and you can
upgrade from it to stable (Wheezy) or testing.  Debian usually supports
the old stable release for a year after the new stable release is out.
Hopefully Speakup will work again with serial ports by the time Squeeze is
removed from the regular mirrors.

On 5/14/2013 12:02 PM, Ryan Hutchings wrote:
> I am wanting to get debian squeeze as well to use hardware speech. 
> Where do i get squeeze from? i can't see it on the debian website
> (there seems to be no archive of old releases..)
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Re: Debian Squeeze CDs

[Ryan Hutchings]

Many thanks for the links.
I was looking for the cd/dvd images.

Ryan

-----Original Message----- 
From: Tony Baechler 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:06 AM 
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. 
Subject: Debian Squeeze CDs 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Please be more specific.  Are you looking for the live CD of Squeeze or
the install CDs?  If all else fails, I think I still have the live CD
here.  Here are the sites I have bookmarked:

http://live.debian.net/ for the live CD

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ for the latest D-I

http://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/debian-installer/ for the Squeeze
install CDs

Note that the live.debian.net site above has archives for both Squeeze and
Wheezy.  If you go to cdimage.debian.org, you won't see a link for the
archives, even though they're under the Squeeze release pages.  If you
have a 64-bit processor, you should get the AMD64 images.  They run better
and have better memory management.  Remember that even though Squeeze is
now considered old, you should still be able to install it and you can
upgrade from it to stable (Wheezy) or testing.  Debian usually supports
the old stable release for a year after the new stable release is out.
Hopefully Speakup will work again with serial ports by the time Squeeze is
removed from the regular mirrors.

On 5/14/2013 12:02 PM, Ryan Hutchings wrote:
> I am wanting to get debian squeeze as well to use hardware speech. 
> Where do i get squeeze from? i can't see it on the debian website
> (there seems to be no archive of old releases..)
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_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Alex Snow]

You could also install slackware using a serial console and then drop in 
whatever kernel you want to get hardware speach from Speakup...Slackware 
uses basicly a stock kernel.org kernel, so this isn't all that difficult.

On 5/14/2013 5:10 AM, Tony Baechler wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Since no one answered, I'll try my luck.  I don't use Slackware and
> haven't in a very long time.  If you're using hardware speech, Slack
> probably ships a newer kernel after 2.6.37 with broken serial support.
> The only two options are to use an older kernel or software speech.  I
> don't think Slackware supports software speech, but Debian does.  If
> you're running 32-bit, you might run into problems with big drives
> regardless of the kernel.  I would recommend installing 64-bit Debian
> Squeeze if your system can run 64-bit and upgrade to Wheezy from there.
> That still lets you use the older kernel with hardware speech while giving
> you the newer packages.  If you can use software speech, of course just
> installing Debian Wheezy directly is the better option.  I've ran both
> Debian Squeeze with the 2.6.32 kernel and Wheezy with the 3.2 kernel and
> several 3 TB drives in a RAID array with no problems.  As I'm sure you
> know, you probably don't want to use a 3 TB drive for boot.  I have a
> separate 1 TB RAID array for my boot drive and I've had no problems.
>
> In reading your message again, I have a question.  What happens with
> Debian if you use the standard Speakup keys to change your rate and pitch?
>   I use a DECtalk Express here and I've never had that problem.  In fact, I
> worked on fixing the driver and William incorporated my fixes with his own
> into the official Speakup module, so you should have a very good
> experience.  Someone else has reported random rate and pitch drops, but
> he's using a DECtalk USB.  I'm assuming you tried either the speakupconf
> script in the speakup-tools package or added lines to /etc/rc.local to set
> your rate and pitch, right?  If the standard Speakup keys aren't working,
> you might have a keyboard issue or there might be a bug in D-I.  Did you
> actually get Debian installed or is the problem you're having with the
> install CD?
>
> On 5/13/2013 10:06 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
>> New to this list and hoping you all can help with this problem.  I am
>> having issues with the last two versions of Slackware and getting
>> Speakup at install time. I have used Slackware back to version 7.0 with
>> no issues.
>>
>> For some reason, I can't get Speakup to load on either of these
>> releases. Using DEC Talk Express. Tried speakup.s, huge.s and hugesmp.s
>> since the latter two appear to have Speakup as well.
>>
>> I desperately need to get to a version that supports 3TB hard drives.
>> Considered switching to Debian, but ran into a Speakup issue there
>> too. Seems to be stuck at a default rate, and it won't let me change it
>> for session or otherwise.
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> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

[Mitchell D. Lynn]

Not difficult if you have a clue at all what to do <g>. That sounds like too
big a project for me. I want to get a media server going so I can do for
videos what Sonos does for my music. And I have reached the point where I am
seriously considering changing my machine (and my wife's who is also blind)
over to GUI Linux and ditching the Windows and the exorbitant screen
readers. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@linux-speakup.org] On Behalf Of Alex
Snow
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 8:16 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Slack 13.37 and 14.0

You could also install slackware using a serial console and then drop in
whatever kernel you want to get hardware speach from Speakup...Slackware
uses basicly a stock kernel.org kernel, so this isn't all that difficult.

On 5/14/2013 5:10 AM, Tony Baechler wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Since no one answered, I'll try my luck.  I don't use Slackware and 
> haven't in a very long time.  If you're using hardware speech, Slack 
> probably ships a newer kernel after 2.6.37 with broken serial support.
> The only two options are to use an older kernel or software speech.  I 
> don't think Slackware supports software speech, but Debian does.  If 
> you're running 32-bit, you might run into problems with big drives 
> regardless of the kernel.  I would recommend installing 64-bit Debian 
> Squeeze if your system can run 64-bit and upgrade to Wheezy from there.
> That still lets you use the older kernel with hardware speech while 
> giving you the newer packages.  If you can use software speech, of 
> course just installing Debian Wheezy directly is the better option.  
> I've ran both Debian Squeeze with the 2.6.32 kernel and Wheezy with 
> the 3.2 kernel and several 3 TB drives in a RAID array with no 
> problems.  As I'm sure you know, you probably don't want to use a 3 TB 
> drive for boot.  I have a separate 1 TB RAID array for my boot drive and
I've had no problems.
>
> In reading your message again, I have a question.  What happens with 
> Debian if you use the standard Speakup keys to change your rate and pitch?
>   I use a DECtalk Express here and I've never had that problem.  In 
> fact, I worked on fixing the driver and William incorporated my fixes 
> with his own into the official Speakup module, so you should have a 
> very good experience.  Someone else has reported random rate and pitch 
> drops, but he's using a DECtalk USB.  I'm assuming you tried either 
> the speakupconf script in the speakup-tools package or added lines to 
> /etc/rc.local to set your rate and pitch, right?  If the standard 
> Speakup keys aren't working, you might have a keyboard issue or there 
> might be a bug in D-I.  Did you actually get Debian installed or is 
> the problem you're having with the install CD?
>
> On 5/13/2013 10:06 AM, Mitchell D. Lynn wrote:
>> New to this list and hoping you all can help with this problem.  I am 
>> having issues with the last two versions of Slackware and getting 
>> Speakup at install time. I have used Slackware back to version 7.0 
>> with no issues.
>>
>> For some reason, I can't get Speakup to load on either of these 
>> releases. Using DEC Talk Express. Tried speakup.s, huge.s and 
>> hugesmp.s since the latter two appear to have Speakup as well.
>>
>> I desperately need to get to a version that supports 3TB hard drives.
>> Considered switching to Debian, but ran into a Speakup issue there 
>> too. Seems to be stuck at a default rate, and it won't let me change 
>> it for session or otherwise.
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> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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