How to use espeakup, revisited...

How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Gaijin]

	Hello again,

	Nevermind.  Figured it out.  Was trying to use SpeakUP's paste 
feature to past "speakup_soft" after the modprobe command and got a 
slash instead, because >DUH!<, SpeakUP wasn't loaded.  I'm using the 
software synth now as I type this.  Tada!  Now to put the following in 
rc.local, or whatever is equivalent on other systems:

# rmmod <speakup_driver>
# modprobe speakup_soft
# espeakup

	This friggin information should really be in the documentation 
somewhere, easy to find.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...

				Michael

-- 
Linux User: 	177869                                       Powered by Intel

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Gregory Nowak]

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On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 05:31:09PM -0700, Gaijin wrote:
> Now to put the following in 
> rc.local, or whatever is equivalent on other systems:
> 
> # rmmod <speakup_driver>

Why are you putting the rmmod line above into rc.local?

> # modprobe speakup_soft

Alternatively, if software speech is all you use, you can put
speakup_soft
into your /etc/modules, and then just run espeakup itself in rc.local,
or even earlier as a script in /etc/init.d.

> 	This friggin information should really be in the documentation 
> somewhere, easy to find.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...

You seem to have figured it out easily enough, along with most
everyone else it seems. If you really feel though that this should be
documented somewhere, then there's nothing stopping you from contributing.

Greg


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Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Gaijin]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:36:13PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Why are you putting the rmmod line above into rc.local?

	Because I like starting the puter off with the hardware synth, 
then switch over when the system is ready to go.  That way I can tell 
what the heck is happening if something goes wrong with the 
conglomeration of other programs needed to have software voice 
synthesis.

	Why else spend $$$ on a hardware synthesizer so the system isn't 
bogged down even more, doing voices in software?  I'm just using the 
software synth so I can eventually make my puter sound like a 
gurl...when they get around to making a Martha Harmon-Pardee voice for 
espeak.

	If I could make the hardware synth sound female, I'd do that and 
keep the CPU cycles for other jobs.  I also want something working in 
case the software synth goes down for some reason.  Most of the code is 
still in alpha, so it seems pretty reasonable to keep a backup 
synthesizer available.>


> You seem to have figured it out easily enough, along with most
> everyone else it seems. If you really feel though that this should be
> documented somewhere, then there's nothing stopping you from contributing.

	What does it look like I'm doing?  My name isn't on the package 
maintainer's list.  I only managed it because I knew about rc.local and 
a little something about loading and unloading modules, which people new 
to linux wouldn't know, obviously.  Nor would they know to look in 
/lib/modules/{kernel-version}/extra/speakup for the synth module names, 
understand a little bash scripting, or which does what.  And to top it 
off, it suggests right in the espeakup man page to mention it on the 
mailing list, so get off my back. <laughs>

	I still haven't figured out why my puter stopped beeping at me 
when I press the wrong key, so it's evident that all the bugs in Squeeze 
haven't been worked out yet.  Without sighted assistance to call on late 
at night after an upgrade when things stop working, it only seems 
reasonable to insure I have a backup option ready to go, and the 
documentation at hand.  If suggesting contributions here in the mailing 
list is politically uncorrect, just let me know so I can killfile you 
for being an Elitist Putz.  I believe it's also good to rehash how to do 
things while SpeakUP is still in a state of flux and things change from 
one day to the next, especially for those of us who find the web to be 
the clunkiest interface for the visually impared that was ever created.

	Anyway, we don't need people like you trying to censor sources 
of information the rest of us may desperately need. <grins>

			Michael

-- 
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Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Samuel Thibault]

Gaijin, le Mon 21 Sep 2009 14:24:39 -0700, a écrit :
> 	Anyway, we don't need people like you trying to censor sources 
> of information the rest of us may desperately need. <grins>

Don't get him wrong, he precisely asked for you to contribute your
information to where it's appropriate.

Samuel

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Chris Brannon]

Michael wrote:
> # rmmod <speakup_driver>
> # modprobe speakup_soft
> # espeakup
> 
> 	This friggin information should really be in the documentation 
> somewhere, easy to find.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...

If you haven't already done so, you might want to read
http://linux-speakup.org/spkguide.txt
It has been updated recently.

Peace,
-- Chris

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Gregory Nowak]

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On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 02:24:39PM -0700, Gaijin wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:36:13PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > Why are you putting the rmmod line above into rc.local?
> 
> 	Because I like starting the puter off with the hardware synth, 
> then switch over when the system is ready to go.  That way I can tell 
> what the heck is happening if something goes wrong with the 
> conglomeration of other programs needed to have software voice 
> synthesis.

Unless your system is really low on RAM, there's no need for you to
remove the speakup module for your hardware synth when you want to
switch to the speakup_soft module.

> Most of the code is 
> still in alpha, so it seems pretty reasonable to keep a backup 
> synthesizer available.>

Last time I checked, speakup was at version 3.13, and there was a
tarball of it on the linux-speakup.org ftp site. I wouldn't call it
alpha code anymore, unless you're referring to espeakup, which is a
different story, as even the man page states. That aside, yes, it is always good to have a
backup option, in any scenario (grin).

> 	What does it look like I'm doing?

Looks like you're complaining, to me at least.

> My name isn't on the package 
> maintainer's list.

Why should it be? This isn't microjunk windows, where someone does all
the work, and documents everything for you, (never mind the
quality). It's a collaborative effort, where every kind of contribution
helps., whether or not your name is on the maintainers list.>

> I only managed it because I knew about rc.local and 
> a little something about loading and unloading modules, which people new 
> to linux wouldn't know, obviously.  Nor would they know to look in 
> /lib/modules/{kernel-version}/extra/speakup for the synth module names, 
> understand a little bash scripting, or which does what.

That's why there's a speakup user's guide. That's a much more
appropriate place to contribute documentation to, than the mailing
list. Yes, there are list archives, but how many posts do you see from
newbys stating that they've checked the archives, but didn't find an
answer to their question?

> And to top it 
> off, it suggests right in the espeakup man page to mention it on the 
> mailing list, so get off my back. <laughs>

Suggests to mention what? The only thing I see in the espeakup man
page is a suggestion that bugs in espeakup might be mentioned on the
mailing list. What you started this thread with is a complaint
regarding lack of documentation, not a bug in espeakup
itself. Finally, I never got on your back, I simply suggested
alternate action(s) that you could take, besides the one you've taken.

> 
> 	I still haven't figured out why my puter stopped beeping at me 
> when I press the wrong key, so it's evident that all the bugs in Squeeze 
> haven't been worked out yet.

Squeeze is nowhere near release, so there's no reason to expect that
all the bugs in it would be worked out at this point in time. As for
your computer not beeping at you, try modprobing the pcspkr module.

Greg


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Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Gaijin]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:29:20PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Don't get him wrong, he precisely asked for you to contribute your
> information to where it's appropriate.

	It's starting to look like a Douglas Adams novel here, with the 
Notice of Construction posted behind the boiler, in the 3rd basement 
over from the left, behind the door marked "Employees Only."  In other 
words, just as long as any useful information isn't posted "*here*."

				Michael

-- 
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Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Tony Baechler]

If you don't like the answers you're getting, you can always leave the 
list.  At least two people responded to you with helpful information in 
this thread.  I am personally tired of your complaining also.  Perhaps a 
better way for you to contribute would be to send private email to the 
maintainer of the package in question.  You could also write a patch for 
the espeakup man page which I'm sure William would be greatful for.  
It's almost to the point that people will quit reading to avoid your 
rants.  Please lighten up a little.

On 9/21/2009 6:50 PM, Gaijin wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:29:20PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>    
>> Don't get him wrong, he precisely asked for you to contribute your
>> information to where it's appropriate.
>>      
> 	It's starting to look like a Douglas Adams novel here, with the
> Notice of Construction posted behind the boiler, in the 3rd basement
> over from the left, behind the door marked "Employees Only."  In other
> words, just as long as any useful information isn't posted "*here*."
>
> 				Michael
>    

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Samuel Thibault]

Gaijin, le Mon 21 Sep 2009 18:50:45 -0700, a écrit :
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:29:20PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Don't get him wrong, he precisely asked for you to contribute your
> > information to where it's appropriate.
> 
> 	It's starting to look like a Douglas Adams novel here,

You really seem to refuse to admit that people aren't against you.

> with the Notice of Construction posted behind the boiler, in the 3rd
> basement over from the left, behind the door marked "Employees Only."
> In other words, just as long as any useful information isn't posted
> "*here*."

People are not supposed to find useful information *here*, they're
supposed to find useful information in the *Notice*, which is
spkguide.txt and the manual pages, not this list (as that would mean
that users would have to either browse the archive (tedious), or ask
a question, wait, get an answer, ask another question, wait again,
etc.). We clearly said that we welcome contributions to these (I
personnally have absolutely no time atm to work on it, but can gladly
commit).

Samuel

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[John G. Heim]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Samuel Thibault" <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
People are not supposed to find useful information *here*, they're
supposed to find useful information in the *Notice*, which is
spkguide.txt and the manual pages, not this list (as that would mean
that users would have to either browse the archive (tedious), or ask
a question, wait, get an answer, ask another question, wait again,
etc.). We clearly said that we welcome contributions to these (I
personnally have absolutely no time atm to work on it, but can gladly
commit).
Obviously, no one with any sense would dispute the fact that the most 
efficient way to figure out how to use speakup is to read the documentation. 
But I do have a suggestion that I think would save a lot of headaches for us 
users. I think that the development team should try to use this list as a 
way to notify users of changes.

For example, I don't think any notice was posted to this list about the 
switch from cvs to git. I used to use the shell script that came with 
speakup to download updates. All of a sudden it stopped wworking. I read 
this list almost every day and I never saw that coming.

Obviously, I don't mean this as a criticism. I think you guys do fantastic 
work. I'm just saying that you could probably help a lot of people to avoid 
a lot of headaches if you posted messages here when such changes occured. 
And this stuff happens all the time. For example, there was the recent 
discussion about creating a file for a flag to indicate whether the synth 
was active or not. How are we going to know when that gets done? I guess I 
can keep browsing the documentation but wouldn't it make sense just to post 
a notification of that kind of thing to this list?

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[John G. Heim]

From: "Gaijin" <gaijin@clearwire.net>
> It's starting to look like a Douglas Adams novel here, with the
> Notice of Construction posted behind the boiler, in the 3rd basement
> over from the left, behind the door marked "Employees Only."  In other
> words, just as long as any useful information isn't posted "*here*."
>

People tend to react negatively when you criticize them while they're 
already trying to do something to help you. My opinion is that you need to 
learn the difference between offering suggestions and offering criticism.  A 
suggestion implies that you're leaving it up to the recipient of your 
suggestion to decide whether to take you up on your idea. Criticism has no 
such implication.

A suggestion is something like, "Maybe it would be better if we did 
something else." A criticism is something like, "You're doing that wrong."

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Samuel Thibault]

John G. Heim, le Tue 22 Sep 2009 09:52:54 -0500, a écrit :
> For example, I don't think any notice was posted to this list about the 
> switch from cvs to git.

I believe there was.

Samuel

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Gaijin]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:11:58PM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> If you don't like the answers you're getting, you can always leave
> the list.

1. How does one write a patch? 

2. Will the patch be accurate, since I was just informed that the rmmod 
line I use isn't required?

3. How long will the patch be current when I'm not the one writing the 
code for it, and am being told to talk about it somewhere else, with 
someone else, just as long as we don't have to see it here, or anywhere 
else where SpeakUP is being discussed?

4. ROFLMAO!  I love you guys!  You've convinced me to keep silent.  
You're on your own.  Good luck...

				Michael

-- 
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How do I get to learn Linux & SpeakUp? Re: How to use espeakup

[Peter Tesar]

Where do I get this useful information? I would like to get started using 
Linux. I haven't been successful with the distribution CD that I downloaded 
and burned.

You wrote:
> People are not supposed to find useful information *here*, they're
> supposed to find useful information in the *Notice*, which is
> spkguide.txt and the manual pages, not this list (

All I have to work with is Windows XP and JAWS. I thought that it would be 
easier to chat with someone on your Reflector. The information sent me 
through this list service didn't help. Maybe I am doing something wrong or 
nobody is there to chat.

Your web site http://linux-speakup.org/ is not helpful.
Can anyone help?



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...


>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Samuel Thibault" <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." 
> <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> People are not supposed to find useful information *here*, they're
> supposed to find useful information in the *Notice*, which is
> spkguide.txt and the manual pages, not this list (as that would mean
> that users would have to either browse the archive (tedious), or ask
> a question, wait, get an answer, ask another question, wait again,
> etc.). We clearly said that we welcome contributions to these (I
> personnally have absolutely no time atm to work on it, but can gladly
> commit).
> Obviously, no one with any sense would dispute the fact that the most 
> efficient way to figure out how to use speakup is to read the 
> documentation. But I do have a suggestion that I think would save a lot of 
> headaches for us users. I think that the development team should try to 
> use this list as a way to notify users of changes.
>
> For example, I don't think any notice was posted to this list about the 
> switch from cvs to git. I used to use the shell script that came with 
> speakup to download updates. All of a sudden it stopped wworking. I read 
> this list almost every day and I never saw that coming.
>
> Obviously, I don't mean this as a criticism. I think you guys do fantastic 
> work. I'm just saying that you could probably help a lot of people to 
> avoid a lot of headaches if you posted messages here when such changes 
> occured. And this stuff happens all the time. For example, there was the 
> recent discussion about creating a file for a flag to indicate whether the 
> synth was active or not. How are we going to know when that gets done? I 
> guess I can keep browsing the documentation but wouldn't it make sense 
> just to post a notification of that kind of thing to this list?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Samuel Thibault]

Gaijin, le Tue 22 Sep 2009 08:33:03 -0700, a écrit :
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:11:58PM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> > If you don't like the answers you're getting, you can always leave
> > the list.
> 
> 1. How does one write a patch? 

keep a backup of the original file, modify the file, then

diff -u originalfile newfile > patch

> 2. Will the patch be accurate, since I was just informed that the rmmod 
> line I use isn't required?

Maybe not, but at least it will tell where you think the correct
information should go.

> 3. How long will the patch be current when I'm not the one writing the 
> code for it, and am being told to talk about it somewhere else, with 
> someone else, just as long as we don't have to see it here, or anywhere 
> else where SpeakUP is being discussed?

We didn't mean to see the patch go anywhere else than this list, don't
mix posts. Once posted to this list, some developer will either commit
it, or fix it and commit the fixed version.

Samuel

Re: How do I get to learn Linux & SpeakUp? Re: How to use espeakup

[Samuel Thibault]

Peter Tesar, le Tue 22 Sep 2009 11:48:05 -0400, a écrit :
> All I have to work with is Windows XP and JAWS. I thought that it would be 
> easier to chat with someone on your Reflector. The information sent me 
> through this list service didn't help. Maybe I am doing something wrong or 
> nobody is there to chat.
> 
> Your web site http://linux-speakup.org/ is not helpful.

Then that's the place where things should be fixed.

> I would like to get started using Linux.

That's your question and that's what could be on the website if somebody
took the time to write the text.

> I haven't been successful with the distribution CD that I downloaded
> and burned.

Then it's probably a bug and in that case the mailing list is indeed
appropriate: please precisely describe what you have done, and what
result you got.

Samuel

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Gregory Nowak]

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On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 09:52:54AM -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
> For example, I don't think any notice was posted to this list about the  
> switch from cvs to git.

Yes, there was:
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/pipermail/speakup/2008-April/045982.html

> I'm just saying that you could probably help a lot of 
> people to avoid a lot of headaches if you posted messages here when such 
> changes occured. And this stuff happens all the time. For example, there 
> was the recent discussion about creating a file for a flag to indicate 
> whether the synth was active or not. How are we going to know when that 
> gets done? I guess I can keep browsing the documentation but wouldn't it 
> make sense just to post a notification of that kind of thing to this 
> list?

While I'll agree that it would be nice to see a list of changes posted
here as they happen, I don't think this is strictly necessary, that's
what the very well detailed changelog is for. Once you've checked
speakup out from git, switch to the directory with the sources, and
do:
git log
and you'll want to pipe that through your favorite pager of
course. If you get speakup as a package from your distribution's
repository, then there should be a changelog included with your
package. To summarize, while it would be nice to see a list of changes
posted here periodically, if it comes down to the development team
spending time on duplicating already existing information, or instead
spending that time on fixing bugs/implementing new features, I'd
rather see the developers use that time to do the latter personally.

Greg


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Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Adam Myrow]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> git log and you'll want to pipe that through your favorite pager of 
> course.

Interestingly, when I run that command, it already goes through less by 
default.  That may be because I have the PAGER environment variable set in 
my .profile.  So, if that variable is set to less, or some other pager, it 
shouldn't be necessary to pipe the output.

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 06:44:26PM -0500, Adam Myrow wrote:
> Interestingly, when I run that command, it already goes through less by  
> default.  That may be because I have the PAGER environment variable set 
> in my .profile.  So, if that variable is set to less, or some other 
> pager, it shouldn't be necessary to pipe the output.

I stand corrected. I tried it out without piping it through more/less
after reading your post, and it automagicly pipes it through less for
me too. Thanks for pointing that out.

Greg


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Re: How do I get to learn Linux & SpeakUp? Re: How to use espeakup

[Peter Tesar]

Here are the steps I took to try Linux (on a live CD) and then attempt to 
install it.

I have Windows and JAWS on my first physical disk partitioned into c: and d: 
drives. I wanted to play it safe by putting Linux on a second physical disk. 
This second disk was just installed but it is not partitioned. I understood 
that the installing of Linux would perform the partitioning.

I listened to a few MP3 podcasts explaining how to install various 
distributions of Linux. However, since the recordings, Linux versions have 
changed and I know very little about Linux ORCA and Speakup.

I chose to start with Vinux. The Dr. Bongo's Vinux Development Blog site 
gives 30 steps. From the Vinux UK site I downloaded the ISO file and burned 
the live CD.

This Live CD originally worked. Four minutes after booting I heard “Welcome 
to ORCA”. Then I could tab three times to hear the help, preferences and 
quit buttons.

I focused on step 23 which explains How to install Vinux to a hard drive as 
a duel system.
It states that the 'Install Vinux to Hard Drive' launcher will allow you to 
partition your hard drive and install Vinux to it.

I thought that the five words in quotes should be typed in the console.
Step 13states: you have to press ctrl+alt+F1 from the running Gnome session 
or the GDM login screen. You can then use Speakup to input commands from the 
console

I pressed control+alt+f1 and then typed:
Install Vinux to Hard Drive (without the quotes).

This produced an error which I can’t remember exactly. I could use the ORCA 
say lines keys (7, 8 and 9) to review the screen. The ORCA voice is a 
challenge to understand.

Now When I boot to the live CD I hear “welcome to ORCA” and then nothing. 
Now tabbing no longer results in the buttons being announced.

Since ORCA started with the live CD I thought that it would guide me through 
the install to hard drive process. In retrospect, I think that there might 
be an application called a launcher.

It would be helpful to have a list of command keystrokes for Linux, ORCA and 
Speakup. I’m even wondering if the different Linux distributions have 
different keystrokes. E.g. are alt+F1, alt+f2 and alt+F3 used by all the 
Linuxes?

Where do I go from here?

Peter

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Samuel Thibault" <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: How do I get to learn Linux & SpeakUp? Re: How to use espeakup


Peter Tesar, le Tue 22 Sep 2009 11:48:05 -0400, a écrit :
> All I have to work with is Windows XP and JAWS. I thought that it would be
> easier to chat with someone on your Reflector. The information sent me
> through this list service didn't help. Maybe I am doing something wrong or
> nobody is there to chat.
>
> Your web site http://linux-speakup.org/ is not helpful.

Then that's the place where things should be fixed.

> I would like to get started using Linux.

That's your question and that's what could be on the website if somebody
took the time to write the text.

> I haven't been successful with the distribution CD that I downloaded
> and burned.

Then it's probably a bug and in that case the mailing list is indeed
appropriate: please precisely describe what you have done, and what
result you got.

Samuel
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: How do I get to learn Linux & SpeakUp? Re: How to use espeakup

[Alonzo]

Hello,

Judging from the vinux docs you have to find the installer. it should be 
located on the desktop. press control-alt-d and explore the desktop with the 
arrows.
visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca
And read how to use orca with gnome and read the reference for orca 
keystrokes.
Otherwise using speakup in the console remains ontopic to the speakup list 
so questions should be directed accordingly.
To get started with speakup though your numbpad is used for navigation with 
speakup
zero is speakup key, 1-3 are to navigate by characters, 4-6 move by word, 
7-9 are lines
Downloading the speakup tarball (zip files for linux) should help you get 
started using speakup in the text console should you happen to explore linux 
using the command line. You should find a folder called docs which should be 
read. I don't recall off hand where the guide is located in the tarball as 
I've not looked in a while.
You can also hear Michael Whapples's audio walk through installation of grml 
to get a feel for how speakup works in the console.
Orca is related to the gnome desktop and questions involving Orca should be 
sent to.
orca-list@gnome.org
live.gnome.org/Orca
should help you in finding the email address to suscribe to the orca email 
list should you have any questions on how to use orca with the gnome desktop 
and orca keystrokes.

I hope this helps.
alonzo


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Tesar" <ptesar@ca.inter.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: How do I get to learn Linux & SpeakUp? Re: How to use espeakup


Here are the steps I took to try Linux (on a live CD) and then attempt to
install it.

I have Windows and JAWS on my first physical disk partitioned into c: and d:
drives. I wanted to play it safe by putting Linux on a second physical disk.
This second disk was just installed but it is not partitioned. I understood
that the installing of Linux would perform the partitioning.

I listened to a few MP3 podcasts explaining how to install various
distributions of Linux. However, since the recordings, Linux versions have
changed and I know very little about Linux ORCA and Speakup.

I chose to start with Vinux. The Dr. Bongo's Vinux Development Blog site
gives 30 steps. From the Vinux UK site I downloaded the ISO file and burned
the live CD.

This Live CD originally worked. Four minutes after booting I heard "Welcome
to ORCA". Then I could tab three times to hear the help, preferences and
quit buttons.

I focused on step 23 which explains How to install Vinux to a hard drive as
a duel system.
It states that the 'Install Vinux to Hard Drive' launcher will allow you to
partition your hard drive and install Vinux to it.

I thought that the five words in quotes should be typed in the console.
Step 13states: you have to press ctrl+alt+F1 from the running Gnome session
or the GDM login screen. You can then use Speakup to input commands from the
console

I pressed control+alt+f1 and then typed:
Install Vinux to Hard Drive (without the quotes).

This produced an error which I can't remember exactly. I could use the ORCA
say lines keys (7, 8 and 9) to review the screen. The ORCA voice is a
challenge to understand.

Now When I boot to the live CD I hear "welcome to ORCA" and then nothing.
Now tabbing no longer results in the buttons being announced.

Since ORCA started with the live CD I thought that it would guide me through
the install to hard drive process. In retrospect, I think that there might
be an application called a launcher.

It would be helpful to have a list of command keystrokes for Linux, ORCA and
Speakup. I'm even wondering if the different Linux distributions have
different keystrokes. E.g. are alt+F1, alt+f2 and alt+F3 used by all the
Linuxes?

Where do I go from here?

Peter

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Samuel Thibault" <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: How do I get to learn Linux & SpeakUp? Re: How to use espeakup


Peter Tesar, le Tue 22 Sep 2009 11:48:05 -0400, a écrit :
> All I have to work with is Windows XP and JAWS. I thought that it would be
> easier to chat with someone on your Reflector. The information sent me
> through this list service didn't help. Maybe I am doing something wrong or
> nobody is there to chat.
>
> Your web site http://linux-speakup.org/ is not helpful.

Then that's the place where things should be fixed.

> I would like to get started using Linux.

That's your question and that's what could be on the website if somebody
took the time to write the text.

> I haven't been successful with the distribution CD that I downloaded
> and burned.

Then it's probably a bug and in that case the mailing list is indeed
appropriate: please precisely describe what you have done, and what
result you got.

Samuel
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Tony Baechler]

Hi,

I have a further suggestion which might solve the below problem with 
people not being informed of changes.  I know that Debian and all the 
BSD branches do something similar.  That is to create a separate list 
where new change logs would automatically be posted.  There was a list 
called speakup-cvs for that purpose but it's dead now.  The reason for 
making it a separate list is to avoid potentially cluttering this list 
with excess traffic in which most people aren't interested.  For major 
releases, an announcement can still be posted here as has been done 
recently (thanks Chris and William) but for small changes, the output of 
git-log could be posted to a new speakup-git list.  I think such a new 
list would have moderate traffic.  Sometimes several days go by with no 
activity but other times there are several small changes in a day.  I'm 
fairly sure that git has a facility to do this.  The Linux kernel also 
has a list which posts changes and it is kept in git.  I think I saw 
something called git-mail but I could be imagining things.  Is this a 
good idea?  I'm not skilled enough with git to do it myself, but perhaps 
Kirk could create the list and someone could set this up.  Any thoughts?

On 9/22/2009 3:23 PM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> While I'll agree that it would be nice to see a list of changes posted
> here as they happen, I don't think this is strictly necessary, that's
> what the very well detailed changelog is for. Once you've checked
> speakup out from git, switch to the directory with the sources, and
> do:
> git log
> and you'll want to pipe that through your favorite pager of
> course. If you get speakup as a package from your distribution's
> repository, then there should be a changelog included with your
> package. To summarize, while it would be nice to see a list of changes
> posted here periodically, if it comes down to the development team
> spending time on duplicating already existing information, or instead
> spending that time on fixing bugs/implementing new features, I'd
> rather see the developers use that time to do the latter personally.
>    

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[John G. Heim]

From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." >
> While I'll agree that it would be nice to see a list of changes posted
> here as they happen, I don't think this is strictly necessary, that's
> what the very well detailed changelog is for. Once you've checked
> speakup out from git, switch to the directory with the sources, and
> do:
> git log
> and you'll want to pipe that through your favorite pager of
> course. If you get speakup as a package from your distribution's
> repository, then there should be a changelog included with your
> package. To summarize, while it would be nice to see a list of changes
> posted here periodically, if it comes down to the development team
> spending time on duplicating already existing information, or instead
> spending that time on fixing bugs/implementing new features, I'd
> rather see the developers use that time to do the latter personally.


I don't know... I want to make it clear that I really appreciate what the 
devlopers of speakup do. They are some of the smartest, most generous people 
around. But if the goal is to help as many people as possible, then I think 
they could make at least as great of an impact by improving communications 
as by improving the code.

Well, I've started this organization called the International Association of 
Visually Impaired Technologists. It seems to me that helping get information 
about speakup out there would tie in nicely with that project. I guess I'll 
get started.

PS: For info about the International Association of Visually Impaired 
Technologists see www.iavit.org. 

Re: How to use espeakup, revisited...

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:50:52AM -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
>  But if the goal is to help as many people as possible, 
> then I think they could make at least as great of an impact by improving 
> communications as by improving the code.

Well, I personally see posting announcements, and helping as many
people as possible as two separate topics/goals. After all, just
showing a newby the output of git log, would leave that person
perplexed at best, and would probably do more harm than good, if not
accompanied by background info. In the case of the
former, I think Tony's suggestion regarding a speakup-git list is a
good compromise. In the case of the latter, I don't see that as the
responsibility of the developer team, who already do more than enough
anyway, I rather see the goal of helping as many people as possible as
our responsibility, that of the speakup user base/community. I think
that goal is already facilitated fairly well through both this list,
and the speakup web site. I am also not saying though that this list,
and the site is the be all, and end all in terms of helping as many
people as possible, there's always room for more of that through any
means possible, which is the case for all free software projects I
think.

Greg


- -- 
web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)

- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
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Re: How do I get to learn Linux & SpeakUp? Re: How to use espeakup

[Georgina Joyce]

Hi


If you want to install using speakup the vinux website does contain an
audio walkthrough that I produced.  Don't hesitate to contact me if you
have any questions about the text install and speakup.  If you are in
the UK, I'd possibly be able to talk you through the install process.

Gena

On Tue, 2009-09-22 at 21:56 -0400, Peter Tesar wrote:
> Here are the steps I took to try Linux (on a live CD) and then attempt to 
> install it.
> 
> I have Windows and JAWS on my first physical disk partitioned into c: and d: 
> drives. I wanted to play it safe by putting Linux on a second physical disk. 
> This second disk was just installed but it is not partitioned. I understood 
> that the installing of Linux would perform the partitioning.
> 
> I listened to a few MP3 podcasts explaining how to install various 
> distributions of Linux. However, since the recordings, Linux versions have 
> changed and I know very little about Linux ORCA and Speakup.
> 
> I chose to start with Vinux. The Dr. Bongo's Vinux Development Blog site 
> gives 30 steps. From the Vinux UK site I downloaded the ISO file and burned 
> the live CD.
> 
> This Live CD originally worked. Four minutes after booting I heard “Welcome 
> to ORCA”. Then I could tab three times to hear the help, preferences and 
> quit buttons.
> 
> I focused on step 23 which explains How to install Vinux to a hard drive as 
> a duel system.
> It states that the 'Install Vinux to Hard Drive' launcher will allow you to 
> partition your hard drive and install Vinux to it.
> 
> I thought that the five words in quotes should be typed in the console.
> Step 13states: you have to press ctrl+alt+F1 from the running Gnome session 
> or the GDM login screen. You can then use Speakup to input commands from the 
> console
> 
> I pressed control+alt+f1 and then typed:
> Install Vinux to Hard Drive (without the quotes).
> 
> This produced an error which I can’t remember exactly. I could use the ORCA 
> say lines keys (7, 8 and 9) to review the screen. The ORCA voice is a 
> challenge to understand.
> 
> Now When I boot to the live CD I hear “welcome to ORCA” and then nothing. 
> Now tabbing no longer results in the buttons being announced.
> 
> Since ORCA started with the live CD I thought that it would guide me through 
> the install to hard drive process. In retrospect, I think that there might 
> be an application called a launcher.
> 
> It would be helpful to have a list of command keystrokes for Linux, ORCA and 
> Speakup. I’m even wondering if the different Linux distributions have 
> different keystrokes. E.g. are alt+F1, alt+f2 and alt+F3 used by all the 
> Linuxes?
> 
> Where do I go from here?
> 
> Peter
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Samuel Thibault" <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:56 AM
> Subject: Re: How do I get to learn Linux & SpeakUp? Re: How to use espeakup
> 
> 
> Peter Tesar, le Tue 22 Sep 2009 11:48:05 -0400, a écrit :
> > All I have to work with is Windows XP and JAWS. I thought that it would be
> > easier to chat with someone on your Reflector. The information sent me
> > through this list service didn't help. Maybe I am doing something wrong or
> > nobody is there to chat.
> >
> > Your web site http://linux-speakup.org/ is not helpful.
> 
> Then that's the place where things should be fixed.
> 
> > I would like to get started using Linux.
> 
> That's your question and that's what could be on the website if somebody
> took the time to write the text.
> 
> > I haven't been successful with the distribution CD that I downloaded
> > and burned.
> 
> Then it's probably a bug and in that case the mailing list is indeed
> appropriate: please precisely describe what you have done, and what
> result you got.
> 
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
-- 
Gena


four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software:

    * The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
    * The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your
needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
    * The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor
(freedom 2).
    * The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements
to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access
to the source code is a precondition for this.

Richard Matthew Stallman