* re: vinux @ Jude DaShiell ` vinux Georgina Joyce 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Jude DaShiell @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup For really fast booting systems, ubuntu is a nightmare. If a system boots slower ubuntu probably will work, but with vinux even on a fast booting system you boot it and wait and in time orca comes up talking. The thing with ubuntu as was explained over on the gnome-orca list is that several issues with ubuntu regarding use of root account with speech were fixed in vinux and those fixes went out pre-packaged. I do have an older version of ubuntu around which needed sighted assistance to get installed and talking because of that booting issue. There's no way I could recommend ubuntu as a first Linux for a blind person needing accessibility like orca but could recommend grml or vinux or debian though. What was a nice surprise with grml was that it installed on my laptop and runs, I don't know that the other flavors of Linux can do that especially not debian. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* re: vinux vinux Jude DaShiell @ ` Georgina Joyce 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Georgina Joyce @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi Vinux is now using debian. On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 20:12 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote: > For really fast booting systems, ubuntu is a nightmare. If a system boots > slower ubuntu probably will work, but with vinux even on a fast booting > system you boot it and wait and in time orca comes up talking. The thing > with ubuntu as was explained over on the gnome-orca list is that several > issues with ubuntu regarding use of root account with speech were fixed in > vinux and those fixes went out pre-packaged. I do have an older version > of ubuntu around which needed sighted assistance to get installed and > talking because of that booting issue. There's no way I could recommend > ubuntu as a first Linux for a blind person needing accessibility like orca > but could recommend grml or vinux or debian though. What was a nice > surprise with grml was that it installed on my laptop and runs, I don't > know that the other flavors of Linux can do that especially not debian. > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Gena four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software: * The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0). * The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. * The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2). * The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. Richard Matthew Stallman ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Accessible Ubuntu Installation? @ Gaijin ` Georgina Joyce 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Gaijin @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: SpeakUP Mailing List Hello all, Just wondering if anyone is running Ubuntu and know how to install it? I can't seem to find anything referring to accessibility, speakup, jupiter, or software synthesis parameters available with a Ubuntu installation. GRML is not starting with the swspeak boot parameter on my puter on my desktop. Maybe because I have a motherboard and SB Live sound card installed. TIA, Michael ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation? Accessible Ubuntu Installation? Gaijin @ ` Georgina Joyce ` Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) Tony Baechler 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Georgina Joyce @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi Sorry, a bit late catching up with my mail. But just having caught up I noticed that no-one seemed to mention vinux. www.vinux.org.uk But like many users. Vinux is likely to move to debian. Ubuntu seems to be problematic. Bugs slip through because of the rapid devel cycle. Many orca users are frustrated by orca continually stopping. Which I believe has had a negative affect upon orca. Since returning to debian, I don't think orca has stopped at all. Gena On Sat, 2009-05-23 at 23:35 -0700, Gaijin wrote: > Hello all, > > Just wondering if anyone is running Ubuntu and know how to > install it? I can't seem to find anything referring to accessibility, > speakup, jupiter, or software synthesis parameters available with a > Ubuntu installation. GRML is not starting with the swspeak boot > parameter on my puter on my desktop. Maybe because I have a motherboard > and SB Live sound card installed. TIA, > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Gena M0EBP http://ready2golinux.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) ` Georgina Joyce @ ` Tony Baechler ` Samuel Thibault ` Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) John G. Heim 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Tony Baechler @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi, I'm not trying to pick on this particular post or the person posting it. Is it just me, or do others here have a real problem with the idea of using a specialized distro for the blind? Let me explain what I mean. I am a very happy Debian user, although I've looked at Slackware, Red Hat, Gentoo and the Ubuntu live CD. All of those are mainstream distributions that happen to have accessibility support. Is it just my attitude or do others find using a special distro for the blind demeaning and insultive? Instead of expecting people to use a blind-friendly distro, why not use an already accessible distro such as Debian or Ubuntu in the first place? Besides generally getting a lot better support and a larger user base, there is no guarantee that a single developer will continue releasing new versions of the specialist distro in a timely manner. That happens with mainstream distros already. Also, granted I refuse to use the Vinux CD for the simple reason that I feel that I shouldn't have to use a specialist distro, but what does it offer that Ubuntu doesn't already? From what I've read, it has deleted graphics packages but still comes with the same accessibility features and packages. A good example of what I'm talking about is Oralux. It's now abandoned and apparently used its own packaging system. I was helping someone switch to grml because Oralux wasn't really working anymore and was abandoned. Why not just use Debian or grml in the first place? If someone could please explain why Vinux is so much better than a mainstream distro and why one should lower their standards to using a special distro primarily for the blind, I would be very interested. To me, this is like being required to use sighted help for something that the blind can do independently. Note that I'm not talking about using a screen reader or software to help the blind do a task easier, I'm only talking about locking oneself into a special distro that might not have long term support and is not designed for the general population. Georgina Joyce wrote: > But just having caught up I noticed that no-one seemed to mention vinux. > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) ` Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) Tony Baechler @ ` Samuel Thibault ` James & Nash ` Vinux Hermann ` Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) John G. Heim 1 sibling, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Samuel Thibault @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Tony Baechler, le Mon 01 Jun 2009 04:22:06 -0700, a écrit : > If someone could please explain why Vinux is so much better than a > mainstream distro and why one should lower their standards to using a > special distro primarily for the blind, My understanding is that it's available _now_ with tweaks here and there, not waiting for distributions to properly fix things like e.g. orca's reading of root-launched applications. I do too believe that it's not a viable long-term solution. Samuel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) ` Samuel Thibault @ ` James & Nash ` Vinux Tony Baechler ` Vinux Hermann 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: James & Nash @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Also it is a way to get blind people interested in Linux without having to mess around with various things. Linux still has a reputation for being very technical and designed primarily for very computer literate people not just the average home user which I would think the majority of people blind and otherwise are. That said some distros have made significant steps in making Linux accessible to a growing range of folks. Take care James Lyn Nash and Twinny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Samuel Thibault" <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:30 PM Subject: Re: Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) Tony Baechler, le Mon 01 Jun 2009 04:22:06 -0700, a écrit : > If someone could please explain why Vinux is so much better than a > mainstream distro and why one should lower their standards to using a > special distro primarily for the blind, My understanding is that it's available _now_ with tweaks here and there, not waiting for distributions to properly fix things like e.g. orca's reading of root-launched applications. I do too believe that it's not a viable long-term solution. Samuel _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` James & Nash @ ` Tony Baechler ` Vinux James & Nash 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Tony Baechler @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi, I must disagree here. Ubuntu already has Orca included on the live CD and can be accessed either once the CD is booted or from the boot menu with sighted help. Perhaps you're saying that the general blind population would rather use a distro targeted to them, but even then I would be doubtful. You don't see a special version of Windows or DOS for the blind, even though there are screen readers that can be installed. I was independently able to boot and use the Ubuntu live CD and start Orca, although I did read posts here and at various other places first. My point is that I'm really not sure that most blind people need or want a specialized distro and Ubuntu still fills the need for an accessible live CD. This doesn't count grml, which also has software speech included and can be booted independently. Finally, although Vinux is gaining in popularity, it still isn't that popular and is still relatively early in its development. My great concern about projects such as Oralux and Vinux are that the mainstream developers, as well as other Linux users, will assume that no effort should be wasted in making their particular distro accessible because Vinux is already designed for the blind, so the blind should just use that. Before the release of Debian Lenny, there was discussion on the various Debian lists from developers trying to understand why Speakup should be included as part of the installer. Apparently quite a few people think that the blind should be relegated to their own special accessible CD image, leaving the regular CD images completely inaccessible. As Samuel has pointed out, while a special CD image isn't all bad because of the overhead of software speech, it adds lots of extra confusion for the potential blind user who really doesn't know what to download. I recently had a similar experience with Ubuntu, and I've been involved with Linux since 2000. It took a long time before I could find the x86-64 standard Ubuntu CD image. Ubuntu doesn't have a special accessible image because it isn't necessary. I had no problem booting it and running Orca manually. I can't imagine how much more difficult it would be for someone with no Linux knowledge and perhaps very little technical knowledge generally. Getting back to the original point, I guess that's where Vinux might be useful, there is no thought required in trying to figure out what distro to use. However, one should, in an ideal world, be able to download any CD image of any distro and have accessibility included with no worries of whether it's a special distro for the blind or not. James & Nash wrote: > Also it is a way to get blind people interested in Linux without > having to mess around with various things. Linux still has a > reputation for being very technical and designed primarily for very > computer literate people not just the average home user which I would > think the majority of people blind and otherwise are. That said some > distros have made significant steps in making Linux accessible to a > growing range of folks. > > Take care > James Lyn Nash and Twinny > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Samuel Thibault" > <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." > <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:30 PM > Subject: Re: Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) > > > Tony Baechler, le Mon 01 Jun 2009 04:22:06 -0700, a écrit : >> If someone could please explain why Vinux is so much better than a >> mainstream distro and why one should lower their standards to using a >> special distro primarily for the blind, > > My understanding is that it's available _now_ with tweaks here and > there, not waiting for distributions to properly fix things like e.g. > orca's reading of root-launched applications. I do too believe that > it's not a viable long-term solution. > > Samuel > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` Vinux Tony Baechler @ ` James & Nash 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: James & Nash @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi Tony, Yes, I agree with you. In an ideal world we would be able to download any distro we wanted and it would be accessible to us - without the need for a specialized disc image. Still, Vinux is still a great idea and might promote Linux for the blind until they feel comfortable setting up in other distros. Hopefully, other big distros like Debian will one day be able to be installed independently by the blind. Take care James, Lyn, Nash and Twinny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Baechler" <tony@baechler.net> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Vinux Hi, I must disagree here. Ubuntu already has Orca included on the live CD and can be accessed either once the CD is booted or from the boot menu with sighted help. Perhaps you're saying that the general blind population would rather use a distro targeted to them, but even then I would be doubtful. You don't see a special version of Windows or DOS for the blind, even though there are screen readers that can be installed. I was independently able to boot and use the Ubuntu live CD and start Orca, although I did read posts here and at various other places first. My point is that I'm really not sure that most blind people need or want a specialized distro and Ubuntu still fills the need for an accessible live CD. This doesn't count grml, which also has software speech included and can be booted independently. Finally, although Vinux is gaining in popularity, it still isn't that popular and is still relatively early in its development. My great concern about projects such as Oralux and Vinux are that the mainstream developers, as well as other Linux users, will assume that no effort should be wasted in making their particular distro accessible because Vinux is already designed for the blind, so the blind should just use that. Before the release of Debian Lenny, there was discussion on the various Debian lists from developers trying to understand why Speakup should be included as part of the installer. Apparently quite a few people think that the blind should be relegated to their own special accessible CD image, leaving the regular CD images completely inaccessible. As Samuel has pointed out, while a special CD image isn't all bad because of the overhead of software speech, it adds lots of extra confusion for the potential blind user who really doesn't know what to download. I recently had a similar experience with Ubuntu, and I've been involved with Linux since 2000. It took a long time before I could find the x86-64 standard Ubuntu CD image. Ubuntu doesn't have a special accessible image because it isn't necessary. I had no problem booting it and running Orca manually. I can't imagine how much more difficult it would be for someone with no Linux knowledge and perhaps very little technical knowledge generally. Getting back to the original point, I guess that's where Vinux might be useful, there is no thought required in trying to figure out what distro to use. However, one should, in an ideal world, be able to download any CD image of any distro and have accessibility included with no worries of whether it's a special distro for the blind or not. James & Nash wrote: > Also it is a way to get blind people interested in Linux without having to > mess around with various things. Linux still has a reputation for being > very technical and designed primarily for very computer literate people > not just the average home user which I would think the majority of people > blind and otherwise are. That said some distros have made significant > steps in making Linux accessible to a growing range of folks. > > Take care > James Lyn Nash and Twinny > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Samuel Thibault" > <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." > <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:30 PM > Subject: Re: Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) > > > Tony Baechler, le Mon 01 Jun 2009 04:22:06 -0700, a écrit : >> If someone could please explain why Vinux is so much better than a >> mainstream distro and why one should lower their standards to using a >> special distro primarily for the blind, > > My understanding is that it's available _now_ with tweaks here and > there, not waiting for distributions to properly fix things like e.g. > orca's reading of root-launched applications. I do too believe that > it's not a viable long-term solution. > > Samuel > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` Samuel Thibault ` James & Nash @ ` Hermann ` Vinux Tony Baechler 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Hermann @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. On 01.06.2009 at 13:30:08 Samuel Thibault <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> wrote: > Tony Baechler, le Mon 01 Jun 2009 04:22:06 -0700, a écrit : >> If someone could please explain why Vinux is so much better than a >> mainstream distro and why one should lower their standards to using a >> special distro primarily for the blind, > > My understanding is that it's available _now_ with tweaks here and > there, not waiting for distributions to properly fix things like e.g. > orca's reading of root-launched applications. I do too believe that > it's not a viable long-term solution. > Exactly! Vinux was a reaction to the fact that more and more complains arrised about Ubuntu, and the maintainer of Vinux does not intend to create a special System for the blind. That's a big difference to Oralux or - the latest one in that family - Adriane. In addition: There are plans to shift Vinux to be based on Lenny. The difference to an original Debian or GRML - wich btw. I use - is, that Vinux, like Ubuntu, comes with Orca and other a11y stuff out of the box. Under GRML, for example, you have to do a lot of work to set up Gnome, Orca and all that stuff. GRML comes with a lot of lightweight window managers of which non is accessible. I think we should keep all this in mind when going on with taht thread. Hermann ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` Vinux Hermann @ ` Tony Baechler ` Vinux Samuel Thibault ` Vinux Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Tony Baechler @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi, Again, I must disagree. Debian does install basic accessibility with a standard install. It doesn't install Orca, although it should. It does install Speakup and I think brltty though. Samuel is working on an accessibility section of the archive which should help, but Orca should be included as part of the standard desktop task. Even so, one does get a bootable system with speech after the install and one can easily install Orca. Again, Ubuntu includes Orca already, but not Speakup. I guess in that regard, a distro that includes both out of the box would be better. I'm not saying that any distro is perfect, and even Debian has work to do to make it more accessible, but the tools are easily available and included as part of Debian, while Orca is part of Ubuntu. I do agree that grml is very difficult to use with X. I got nowhere when I tried, so I gave up. It is a very good command line CD and does include software speech, but it should include a way to install the standard desktop task with Orca as the Debian installer does. Hermann wrote: > The difference to an original Debian or GRML - wich btw. I use - is, > that Vinux, like Ubuntu, comes with Orca and other a11y stuff out of the > box. > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` Vinux Tony Baechler @ ` Samuel Thibault ` Vinux Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Samuel Thibault @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Tony Baechler, le Tue 02 Jun 2009 02:08:44 -0700, a écrit : > Again, I must disagree. Debian does install basic accessibility with a > standard install. It doesn't install Orca, although it should. That was a bug. I asked quite a few times for tests etc. but never got that bug report before the release. So it got fixed after the release. Bugs that are not reported are not fixed, that's all. Samuel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` Vinux Tony Baechler ` Vinux Samuel Thibault @ ` Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 02:08:44AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote: > Debian does install basic accessibility with a > standard install. It doesn't install Orca, although it should. I humbly beg to differ here. One of the things I like about debian, (at least as far as installations of Etch were concerned), is that doing a basic install, without running tasksel, gave you a system about 400 Mb in size. Having orca installed as part of a base install implies also installing x11, and gnome, which would bloat the installed system significantly, and wouldn't be desirable for those who just want to install a basic text console machine. Bloat is one of the things I don't like about Ubuntu's install, and I seem to also recall reading posts from people on this list who claim that an install of GRML is also bloated, though I can't speak from experience, since the last time I tried installing GRML to HD was a few years ago, and things might have changed since then. Greg - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkolddsACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyCn1wCgr0HuQNAbIBdrKq7KFrx3KONa ncIAoMN1CS77M+oyBSdDDmyuixuIXaH3 =4pvJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) ` Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) Tony Baechler ` Samuel Thibault @ ` John G. Heim ` Vinux Tony Baechler 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: John G. Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. The main reason for something like vinux is that a lot of people have a hard time just getting started with linux. Over on a list for blind sysadmins, the question comes up just about every time someone mentions live CDs -- is there one that comes up talking without my having to just the right key at just the right time. People are already struggling with linux, they don't want to have to struggle to get speech started too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Baechler" <tony@baechler.net> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:22 AM Subject: Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) > Hi, > > I'm not trying to pick on this particular post or the person posting it. > Is it just me, or do others here have a real problem with the idea of > using a specialized distro for the blind? Let me explain what I mean. I > am a very happy Debian user, although I've looked at Slackware, Red Hat, > Gentoo and the Ubuntu live CD. All of those are mainstream distributions > that happen to have accessibility support. Is it just my attitude or do > others find using a special distro for the blind demeaning and insultive? > Instead of expecting people to use a blind-friendly distro, why not use an > already accessible distro such as Debian or Ubuntu in the first place? > Besides generally getting a lot better support and a larger user base, > there is no guarantee that a single developer will continue releasing new > versions of the specialist distro in a timely manner. That happens with > mainstream distros already. Also, granted I refuse to use the Vinux CD > for the simple reason that I feel that I shouldn't have to use a > specialist distro, but what does it offer that Ubuntu doesn't already? > From what I've read, it has deleted graphics packages but still comes with > the same accessibility features and packages. > > A good example of what I'm talking about is Oralux. It's now abandoned > and apparently used its own packaging system. I was helping someone > switch to grml because Oralux wasn't really working anymore and was > abandoned. Why not just use Debian or grml in the first place? If > someone could please explain why Vinux is so much better than a mainstream > distro and why one should lower their standards to using a special distro > primarily for the blind, I would be very interested. To me, this is like > being required to use sighted help for something that the blind can do > independently. Note that I'm not talking about using a screen reader or > software to help the blind do a task easier, I'm only talking about > locking oneself into a special distro that might not have long term > support and is not designed for the general population. > > Georgina Joyce wrote: >> But just having caught up I noticed that no-one seemed to mention vinux. >> > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) John G. Heim @ ` Tony Baechler ` Vinux James & Nash 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Tony Baechler @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Ah, this I understand. I was unaware that the live CD would come up talking. That is a valid point and I can see why people would like that. Oralux was supposed to do the same thing, but it didn't work for me. Again, that opens up a bunch of other issues, such as what if there are multiple sound cards? What if Linux doesn't support the driver for your sound card? The advantage to something like grml is that you have more flexibility, even though it requires typing the right thing within the right number of seconds. You can have software speech, hardware speech if you have a hardware synth, or no speech if you would rather use ssh, or a combination of the above. I was working on someone else's machine when for no obvious reason, grml lost software speech. I couldn't do much without speech, but it wasn't a problem. I just set up dhcp, started an ssh server and finished from a different machine. Yes, a new blind user won't know about that, but the point is that you aren't locked into one method of doing things, even though it does mean entering boot parameters. I must say that I really like the way Debian handles this with the installation. It beeps to let you know that it's booted and doesn't timeout right away. It also is smart enough to install Speakup automatically if you use it to do the install. John G. Heim wrote: > The main reason for something like vinux is that a lot of people have > a hard time just getting started with linux. Over on a list for blind > sysadmins, the question comes up just about every time someone > mentions live CDs -- is there one that comes up talking without my > having to just the right key at just the right time. > > People are already struggling with linux, they don't want to have to > struggle to get speech started too. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` Vinux Tony Baechler @ ` James & Nash ` Vinux Samuel Thibault 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: James & Nash @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi Tony, So how do you tell Debian that you want to use speakup during the installation? Thanks james lyn Nash and Twinny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Baechler" <tony@baechler.net> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Vinux > Ah, this I understand. I was unaware that the live CD would come up > talking. That is a valid point and I can see why people would like that. > Oralux was supposed to do the same thing, but it didn't work for me. > Again, that opens up a bunch of other issues, such as what if there are > multiple sound cards? What if Linux doesn't support the driver for your > sound card? The advantage to something like grml is that you have more > flexibility, even though it requires typing the right thing within the > right number of seconds. You can have software speech, hardware speech if > you have a hardware synth, or no speech if you would rather use ssh, or a > combination of the above. I was working on someone else's machine when > for no obvious reason, grml lost software speech. I couldn't do much > without speech, but it wasn't a problem. I just set up dhcp, started an > ssh server and finished from a different machine. Yes, a new blind user > won't know about that, but the point is that you aren't locked into one > method of doing things, even though it does mean entering boot parameters. > > I must say that I really like the way Debian handles this with the > installation. It beeps to let you know that it's booted and doesn't > timeout right away. It also is smart enough to install Speakup > automatically if you use it to do the install. > > John G. Heim wrote: >> The main reason for something like vinux is that a lot of people have a >> hard time just getting started with linux. Over on a list for blind >> sysadmins, the question comes up just about every time someone mentions >> live CDs -- is there one that comes up talking without my having to just >> the right key at just the right time. >> >> People are already struggling with linux, they don't want to have to >> struggle to get speech started too. > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` Vinux James & Nash @ ` Samuel Thibault ` Vinux James & Nash ` Vinux Terry D. Cudney 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Samuel Thibault @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. James & Nash, le Tue 02 Jun 2009 11:32:33 +0100, a écrit : > So how do you tell Debian that you want to use speakup during the > installation? By reading the official documentation: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s02.html Samuel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` Vinux Samuel Thibault @ ` James & Nash ` Vinux Terry D. Cudney 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: James & Nash @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Thanks Samuel James, Lyn, Nash and Twinny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Samuel Thibault" <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:29 PM Subject: Re: Vinux James & Nash, le Tue 02 Jun 2009 11:32:33 +0100, a écrit : > So how do you tell Debian that you want to use speakup during the > installation? By reading the official documentation: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s02.html Samuel _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Vinux ` Vinux Samuel Thibault ` Vinux James & Nash @ ` Terry D. Cudney 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Terry D. Cudney @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi guys, I want to step in here and say a big "Thank You" to Samuel and all the Debian Installer team. I have installed Debian using speakup for the installation, without sighted assistance on several machines, from A64's to notebooks. The installations have all been from CD or USB-stick using a Litetalk or Tripletalk synth for the installation and end up with speakup (with either hardware orespeak (software speech)) and orca access readily available. I agree that during installation, the timing/entry of parameters is a bit of a trick, and perhaps daunting to a new user, but what os can be installed unaided by a blind user besides this? The progress over the last year to make blind, unaided installation possible, has been impressive... thanks to people like Samuel it will only get better. We live in a world where we (the blind) are in the minority, but we don't have to be quarantined into exclusive programs for blind users... that just widens the gap between us and the rest of the world. The better way to go is what is being done with debian... make the installation and use of the system fully accessible without barriers between us and the rest of the world. Thanks again to all who are working in the effort to make linux accessible... speakup, orca and all the people working on various mainstream distributions! My $0.02... --terry On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 01:29:25PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote: > James & Nash, le Tue 02 Jun 2009 11:32:33 +0100, a écrit : > > So how do you tell Debian that you want to use speakup during the > > installation? > > By reading the official documentation: > > http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s02.html > > Samuel > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Name: Terry D. Cudney Phone: 705-812-4949 SIP: 8978@ekiga.net E-mail: terry@octothorp.org Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like... having a peeing sectionin a swimming pool. Tired of technology? Check this out: http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~ UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
vinux Jude DaShiell
` vinux Georgina Joyce
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
Accessible Ubuntu Installation? Gaijin
` Georgina Joyce
` Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) Tony Baechler
` Samuel Thibault
` James & Nash
` Vinux Tony Baechler
` Vinux James & Nash
` Vinux Hermann
` Vinux Tony Baechler
` Vinux Samuel Thibault
` Vinux Gregory Nowak
` Vinux (was: Re: Accessible Ubuntu Installation?) John G. Heim
` Vinux Tony Baechler
` Vinux James & Nash
` Vinux Samuel Thibault
` Vinux James & Nash
` Vinux Terry D. Cudney
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).