* RE: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux @ Dawes, Stephen ` Gregory Nowak ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Dawes, Stephen @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Jinina and all, Don't forget about the service that Adobe provides that converts PDF to either text or html formats. If you come across a pdf file that you want to read on the Web, you simply submit the url to the adobe conversion tool and it does the conversion for you and then you can read it with your browser of choice. The text solution requires you to email the pdf file to adobe's conversion tool and they email you back the converted file almost immediately. So, you can already read PDF from linux if you need or so choose, to do so. The Adobe conversion tool and all you want to know about it can be found at: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.> Management Systems Analyst The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527 Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546 PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca NOTICE - This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux Dawes, Stephen @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Laura Eaves ` Janina Sajka 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 That's interesting, since I seem to recall that adobee suspended that service a while back, due to the fact that acrobat reader 5 provides accessibility. Of course, they did fail to mention that you had to have a fairly recent windows screenreader for it to work (grrrr). Greg On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:21:43AM -0700, Dawes, Stephen wrote: > Jinina and all, > > Don't forget about the service that Adobe provides that converts PDF to > either text or html formats. > > If you come across a pdf file that you want to read on the Web, you > simply submit the url to the adobe conversion tool and it does the > conversion for you and then you can read it with your browser of choice. > The text solution requires you to email the pdf file to adobe's > conversion tool and they email you back the converted file almost > immediately. > > So, you can already read PDF from linux if you need or so choose, to do > so. > > The Adobe conversion tool and all you want to know about it can be found > at: > http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html > > > > > Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.> > Management Systems Analyst > The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527 > Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546 > PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca > Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca > > > > > NOTICE - > This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation. > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > !DSPAM:41e2b9ea299913092664996! > > - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFB4sAW7s9z/XlyUyARAhuOAJ49OGUFaBt6L8M/NmTKr8uhpIQ0vgCfax90 xHf0+3L/AWphljtPxRiu3X4= =WZ3f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Laura Eaves ` Janina Sajka ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Laura Eaves @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a similar update is being created for linux. I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are used there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA. Or is the interface the same as MSAA? Just curious. --le ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:49 PM Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 That's interesting, since I seem to recall that adobee suspended that service a while back, due to the fact that acrobat reader 5 provides accessibility. Of course, they did fail to mention that you had to have a fairly recent windows screenreader for it to work (grrrr). Greg On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:21:43AM -0700, Dawes, Stephen wrote: > Jinina and all, > > Don't forget about the service that Adobe provides that converts PDF to > either text or html formats. > > If you come across a pdf file that you want to read on the Web, you > simply submit the url to the adobe conversion tool and it does the > conversion for you and then you can read it with your browser of choice. > The text solution requires you to email the pdf file to adobe's > conversion tool and they email you back the converted file almost > immediately. > > So, you can already read PDF from linux if you need or so choose, to do > so. > > The Adobe conversion tool and all you want to know about it can be found > at: > http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html > > > > > Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.> > Management Systems Analyst > The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527 > Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546 > PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca > Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca > > > > > NOTICE - > This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity > named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person > responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended > recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying > of this communication or any of the information contained in it is > strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, > please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this > communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of > Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation. > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > !DSPAM:41e2b9ea299913092664996! > > - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFB4sAW7s9z/XlyUyARAhuOAJ49OGUFaBt6L8M/NmTKr8uhpIQ0vgCfax90 xHf0+3L/AWphljtPxRiu3X4= =WZ3f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Laura Eaves @ ` Janina Sajka ` Laura Eaves ` Sean McMahon ` Gregory Nowak 2 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. To learn about the "hooks," as you call them, consult the developer pages at: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/ Laura Eaves writes: > Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf > accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a > similar update is being created for linux. > I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are used > there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA. > Or is the interface the same as MSAA? Definitely not MSAA. <shudder> After all, that's Microsoft's proprietary property, right? Not open source nor a free license at all. > Just curious. > --le ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Janina Sajka @ ` Laura Eaves ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Laura Eaves @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi -- thanks for the link -- I'll take a look -- but as for MSAA, the library implementation is proprietary to Microsoft, but the interface is not -- in fact the library is available for use in any windows app, whether developed on linux or whatever. In fact I have heard firefox is using it for its windows implementation. I guess what I was wondering is if the same or at least similar object library interface might be appropriate for use cross platform. Of course the underlying implementation would be different, but the information passed to a screen reader -- say to recognize text boxes and navigate controls on a GUI -- would be enough the same that the MSAA interface could be used. But now that I think of it, Microsoft I hear is going another direction with respect to accessibility, so that MSAA may become obsolete for windows in a a year or two. Ah the joys of competition... Perhaps they are thinking of grabbing business away from the screen reader companies??? they deny it but if they are removing MSAA I assume there is a reason. Take care. --le ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 10:11 AM Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux To learn about the "hooks," as you call them, consult the developer pages at: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/ Laura Eaves writes: > Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf > accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a > similar update is being created for linux. > I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are > used > there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA. > Or is the interface the same as MSAA? Definitely not MSAA. <shudder> After all, that's Microsoft's proprietary property, right? Not open source nor a free license at all. > Just curious. > --le _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Laura Eaves @ ` Janina Sajka ` Chris Gray ` Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I don't believe msaa is held in very high regard on gnome and kde. In fact, MS is abandoning it with Longhorn. Laura Eaves writes: > Hi -- thanks for the link -- I'll take a look -- but as for MSAA, the > library implementation is proprietary to Microsoft, but the interface is > not -- in fact the library is available for use in any windows app, whether > developed on linux or whatever. In fact I have heard firefox is using it > for its windows implementation. I guess what I was wondering is if the same > or at least similar object library interface might be appropriate for use > cross platform. Of course the underlying implementation would be different, > but the information passed to a screen reader -- say to recognize text boxes > and navigate controls on a GUI -- would be enough the same that the MSAA > interface could be used. > But now that I think of it, Microsoft I hear is going another direction with > respect to accessibility, so that MSAA may become obsolete for windows in a > a year or two. Ah the joys of competition... Perhaps they are thinking of > grabbing business away from the screen reader companies??? they deny it but > if they are removing MSAA I assume there is a reason. > Take care. > --le > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux > > > To learn about the "hooks," as you call them, consult the developer > pages at: > > http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/ > > Laura Eaves writes: > > Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf > > accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a > > similar update is being created for linux. > > I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are > > used > > there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA. > > Or is the interface the same as MSAA? > > > Definitely not MSAA. <shudder> > > > After all, that's Microsoft's proprietary property, right? Not open > source nor a free license at all. > > > Just curious. > > --le > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040 Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG) janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Janina Sajka @ ` Chris Gray ` unsubscribe! Outside Touch ` An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux Janina Sajka ` Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Chris Gray @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. At best, MSAA mode was little more than a bandage. Let's hope that something more positive can come out of Longhorn. One of the primary reasons I am setting up a Linux box is to check out Gnome; what I've seen so far of its access is quite impressive though it has a ways to go for certain. Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* unsubscribe! ` Chris Gray @ ` Outside Touch ` unsubscribe! Luke Yelavich ` An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux Janina Sajka 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Outside Touch @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.' How do you unsubscribe|! John ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: unsubscribe! ` unsubscribe! Outside Touch @ ` Luke Yelavich 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Luke Yelavich @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. On Wed, Jan 12, 2005 at 07:50:53AM EST, Outside Touch wrote: > How do you unsubscribe|! At the bottom of every email you get from the list is a web address. This takes you to the information page about the list. From there you can enter your email address at the bottom to change your options and unsubscribe. You need to know your password for the list to do so, but it is easy to get a reminder about it. Hope this helps. Luke kk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Chris Gray ` unsubscribe! Outside Touch @ ` Janina Sajka ` Laura Eaves 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Linux accessibility, at least for users who are blind, is far more impressive on the console. In fact, it's extremely impressive on the console rivaling, and even surpassing, many things that users of expensive proprietary-ware applications have. The biggest thing wrong with the console is in fact the very negative and dismissive attitude that many GUI people seem to have of it. Chris Gray writes: > At best, MSAA mode was little more than a bandage. Let's hope that > something more positive can come out of Longhorn. One of the primary > reasons I am setting up a Linux box is to check out Gnome; what I've > seen so far of its access is quite impressive though it has a ways to > go for certain. > > Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040 Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG) janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux Janina Sajka @ ` Laura Eaves ` Janina Sajka ` Sean McMahon 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Laura Eaves @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Yes, linux and unix have always been more accessible because they are not GUI, and I assume the console is text based and not graphical -- or am I wrong? the last time I used a unix/linux system was in the mid 90s and most all work was done command-line. I have joined this list as I am getting a second pc in order to install and use linux for various reasons, and I want to check out all the accessibility advancements since I moved to a windows environment. But just as sighted linux users dismiss the console interface, as you say, I think it is equally inappropriate for a blind user to completely ignore the GNOME GUI approach, and trying to make it accessible, as running a GUI actually is a little more than just a bunch of icons covering up the same operations -- the whole underpinning is implemented in an even-driven manner and there is a different way of thinking of things -- well actually I rejected GUI's for a very long time at work because I still had enough sight to use screen mag for work, and could not use the GUI stuff when it reared its ugly head... but after I lost my reading vision and switched to windows -- partly to get experienced using speech and partly because I was curious about its accessibility, I have actually gotten to like some of its aspects, and can see that if made accessible, it is actually rather nice. But I still miss unix extremely, and the flexibility, and the power of things and clean way it handles system operations compared with windows... Sorry I didn't mean to get off on this thread -- I guess I just wanted to make the point that I am glad for the diversion I made into GUI apps and am actually glad (if you can believe it) that I lost my vision in order to force me to stop depending on it, and with my programming background I think GUI programs can be very useful and accessible. But there has to be a way to access the same functionality from the gui -- to get back to command line when necessary, query for available commands and docs, run scripts, etc. That is possible in windows but so much more awkward! It is truely a straight jacket compared to linux. Take care and I have enjoyed lurking on this list. I am learning a lot about speakup, which is why I joined. Take care. --le ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:58 PM Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux Linux accessibility, at least for users who are blind, is far more impressive on the console. In fact, it's extremely impressive on the console rivaling, and even surpassing, many things that users of expensive proprietary-ware applications have. The biggest thing wrong with the console is in fact the very negative and dismissive attitude that many GUI people seem to have of it. Chris Gray writes: > At best, MSAA mode was little more than a bandage. Let's hope that > something more positive can come out of Longhorn. One of the primary > reasons I am setting up a Linux box is to check out Gnome; what I've > seen so far of its access is quite impressive though it has a ways to > go for certain. > > Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040 Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG) janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem. _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Laura Eaves @ ` Janina Sajka ` Adam Myrow ` Sean McMahon 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Laura, you're correct that the console interface is character based. And, I also want to say that we're not ignoring Gnome. It just doesn't do anything very useful yet. On the other hand, since you're a programmer, let me comment that the opportunity is there to make alternative interfaces for gnome apps, given the object architecture that support accessibility. In other words, it isn't necessarrily the gui which can provide access to a gnome app. It is possible to querry all available objects on the gnome desktop, or for a particular app, and obtain data, including text labels, data values, etc. So, it is reasonable to consider that one might, for instance, create an ncurses interface to gui applications. No one has built such an interface to my knowledge, but the opportunity is there. And there is a tool that exposes this data, though it does it graphically and it is not itself accessible by design--in order to avoid infinite regression. The tool is called at-poke. I would love to see some apps from the gnome desktop made accessible this way, while we wait for the gnome screen reader to become really usable, because there is intrinsically no reason to paint the gui for the user who can't appreciate it. In fact, it could be considered a waste of resources so to do. Laura Eaves writes: > Yes, linux and unix have always been more accessible because they are not > GUI, and I assume the console is text based and not graphical -- or am I > wrong? the last time I used a unix/linux system was in the mid 90s and most > all work was done command-line. I have joined this list as I am getting a > second pc in order to install and use linux for various reasons, and I want > to check out all the accessibility advancements since I moved to a windows > environment. > But just as sighted linux users dismiss the console interface, as you say, I > think it is equally inappropriate for a blind user to completely ignore the > GNOME GUI approach, and trying to make it accessible, as running a GUI > actually is a little more than just a bunch of icons covering up the same > operations -- the whole underpinning is implemented in an even-driven manner > and there is a different way of thinking of things -- well actually I > rejected GUI's for a very long time at work because I still had enough sight > to use screen mag for work, and could not use the GUI stuff when it reared > its ugly head... but after I lost my reading vision and switched to > windows -- partly to get experienced using speech and partly because I was > curious about its accessibility, I have actually gotten to like some of its > aspects, and can see that if made accessible, it is actually rather nice. > But I still miss unix extremely, and the flexibility, and the power of > things and clean way it handles system operations compared with windows... > Sorry I didn't mean to get off on this thread -- I guess I just wanted to > make the point that I am glad for the diversion I made into GUI apps and am > actually glad (if you can believe it) that I lost my vision in order to > force me to stop depending on it, and with my programming background I think > GUI programs can be very useful and accessible. > But there has to be a way to access the same functionality from the gui -- > to get back to command line when necessary, query for available commands and > docs, run scripts, etc. That is possible in windows but so much more > awkward! It is truely a straight jacket compared to linux. > Take care and I have enjoyed lurking on this list. I am learning a lot > about speakup, which is why I joined. > Take care. > --le ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Janina Sajka @ ` Adam Myrow ` Sean McMahon 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Adam Myrow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, Janina Sajka wrote: > It is possible to query all available objects on the gnome desktop, or > for a particular app, and obtain data, including text labels, data > values, etc. So, it is reasonable to consider that one might, for > instance, create an ncurses interface to gui applications. No one has > built such an interface to my knowledge, but the opportunity is there. Actually, somebody has tried this. It is known as "cursing GTK." I haven't tried it out, mainly because the person who was working on this wasn't exactly fluent in English, and I couldn't comprehend exactly what one would need to do to get it working. In any case, the web site for this is at: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/cursed/cursed.html. As I said, the English is pretty bad, but apparently, somebody with a lot of patience might be able to make use of this. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Adam Myrow @ ` Sean McMahon 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Sean McMahon @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. This is something speakup could access? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Myrow" <amyrow@midsouth.rr.com> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:18 PM Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux > On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, Janina Sajka wrote: > > > It is possible to query all available objects on the gnome desktop, or > > for a particular app, and obtain data, including text labels, data > > values, etc. So, it is reasonable to consider that one might, for > > instance, create an ncurses interface to gui applications. No one has > > built such an interface to my knowledge, but the opportunity is there. > > Actually, somebody has tried this. It is known as "cursing GTK." I > haven't tried it out, mainly because the person who was working on this > wasn't exactly fluent in English, and I couldn't comprehend exactly what > one would need to do to get it working. In any case, the web site for > this is at: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/cursed/cursed.html. As > I said, the English is pretty bad, but apparently, somebody with a lot of > patience might be able to make use of this. > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Laura Eaves ` Janina Sajka @ ` Sean McMahon 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Sean McMahon @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. The linux command line sometimes works like a gui. Not everything is straight type a command and hit enter to see what you get. Applications like emacs and lynx have menus where you use arro keys and such to navigate. In the windows world, the gui is better because it has more operations then the windows console. Of course in linux things like multitasking, menu navigation for certain programs, and using more and les to controll how much output you get on a screen, give the console all of the power and some of the friendliness of the gui. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@carolina.rr.com> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 3:29 PM Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux > Yes, linux and unix have always been more accessible because they are not > GUI, and I assume the console is text based and not graphical -- or am I > wrong? the last time I used a unix/linux system was in the mid 90s and most > all work was done command-line. I have joined this list as I am getting a > second pc in order to install and use linux for various reasons, and I want > to check out all the accessibility advancements since I moved to a windows > environment. > But just as sighted linux users dismiss the console interface, as you say, I > think it is equally inappropriate for a blind user to completely ignore the > GNOME GUI approach, and trying to make it accessible, as running a GUI > actually is a little more than just a bunch of icons covering up the same > operations -- the whole underpinning is implemented in an even-driven manner > and there is a different way of thinking of things -- well actually I > rejected GUI's for a very long time at work because I still had enough sight > to use screen mag for work, and could not use the GUI stuff when it reared > its ugly head... but after I lost my reading vision and switched to > windows -- partly to get experienced using speech and partly because I was > curious about its accessibility, I have actually gotten to like some of its > aspects, and can see that if made accessible, it is actually rather nice. > But I still miss unix extremely, and the flexibility, and the power of > things and clean way it handles system operations compared with windows... > Sorry I didn't mean to get off on this thread -- I guess I just wanted to > make the point that I am glad for the diversion I made into GUI apps and am > actually glad (if you can believe it) that I lost my vision in order to > force me to stop depending on it, and with my programming background I think > GUI programs can be very useful and accessible. > But there has to be a way to access the same functionality from the gui -- > to get back to command line when necessary, query for available commands and > docs, run scripts, etc. That is possible in windows but so much more > awkward! It is truely a straight jacket compared to linux. > Take care and I have enjoyed lurking on this list. I am learning a lot > about speakup, which is why I joined. > Take care. > --le > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:58 PM > Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux > > > Linux accessibility, at least for users who are blind, is far more > impressive on the console. In fact, it's extremely impressive on the > console rivaling, and even surpassing, many things that users of > expensive proprietary-ware applications have. The biggest thing wrong > with the console is in fact the very negative and dismissive attitude > that many GUI people seem to have of it. > > > > Chris Gray writes: > > At best, MSAA mode was little more than a bandage. Let's hope that > > something more positive can come out of Longhorn. One of the primary > > reasons I am setting up a Linux box is to check out Gnome; what I've > > seen so far of its access is quite impressive though it has a ways to > > go for certain. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > -- > > Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040 > Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com > > Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG) > janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org > > If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem. > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Janina Sajka ` Chris Gray @ ` Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm not surprised. Microsoft never stuck to their own, or anyone else's standards for very long (snicker). Greg On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 12:32:13PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote: > I don't believe msaa is held in very high regard on gnome and kde. In > fact, MS is abandoning it with Longhorn. > - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFB5CN17s9z/XlyUyARAly0AKCpyedjcWLmvzGwouIW4E6eM+PF8QCfZae2 0s5HMkG4SXsDMZNrh9Kaqzs= =RZGa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Laura Eaves ` Janina Sajka @ ` Sean McMahon ` Gregory Nowak 2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Sean McMahon @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Someone stop me if I'm wrong. Gnome has it's own accessibility api. Actually there's one for gtk+ created programs, one for java and one for mozilla. These are of course free standards and have the potential to be more documented and more accessible then those in windows. How well gnome works I think right now is more of an oppinion from those who use it, I'm not going there yet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@carolina.rr.com> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 10:48 PM Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux > Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf > accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a > similar update is being created for linux. > I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are used > there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA. > Or is the interface the same as MSAA? > Just curious. > --le > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:49 PM > Subject: Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > That's interesting, since I seem to recall that adobee suspended that > service a while back, due to the fact that acrobat reader 5 provides > accessibility. Of course, they did fail to mention that you had to > have a fairly recent windows screenreader for it to work (grrrr). > > Greg > > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:21:43AM -0700, Dawes, Stephen wrote: > > Jinina and all, > > > > Don't forget about the service that Adobe provides that converts PDF to > > either text or html formats. > > > > If you come across a pdf file that you want to read on the Web, you > > simply submit the url to the adobe conversion tool and it does the > > conversion for you and then you can read it with your browser of choice. > > The text solution requires you to email the pdf file to adobe's > > conversion tool and they email you back the converted file almost > > immediately. > > > > So, you can already read PDF from linux if you need or so choose, to do > > so. > > > > The Adobe conversion tool and all you want to know about it can be found > > at: > > http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html > > > > > > > > > > Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.> > > Management Systems Analyst > > The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527 > > Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546 > > PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca > > > > > > > > > > NOTICE - > > This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity > > named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally > > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person > > responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended > > recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying > > of this communication or any of the information contained in it is > > strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, > > please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this > > communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of > > Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > !DSPAM:41e2b9ea299913092664996! > > > > > > - -- > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFB4sAW7s9z/XlyUyARAhuOAJ49OGUFaBt6L8M/NmTKr8uhpIQ0vgCfax90 > xHf0+3L/AWphljtPxRiu3X4= > =WZ3f > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux ` Laura Eaves ` Janina Sajka ` Sean McMahon @ ` Gregory Nowak 2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yes, I believe that jaws got into the acrobat reader accessibility game a bit later then window-eyes did. Yes, I also realize this is getting way off topic, so I'll stop now. Greg On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 12:48:34AM -0500, Laura Eaves wrote: > Well, on windows, acrobat7 is actually the release that makes pdf > accessible -- if you have jaws6 that is. but it is interesting that a > similar update is being created for linux. > I'm not familiar with gnopernicus, but does anyone know what hooks are used > there to make an app accessible? on windows it is MSAA. > Or is the interface the same as MSAA? > Just curious. > --le > - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFB5CJV7s9z/XlyUyARAvWxAJ9lu2qchEAQlBOle+RFuzUrXHe4ZACgoBki PB2+gWzfoNXslD0JH0AoZLE= =Xnhm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux Dawes, Stephen ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Janina Sajka 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Yes, Stephen, it's good to remind people of the cgi interface to pdftotext available at a web address. Dawes, Stephen writes: > Jinina and all, > > Don't forget about the service that Adobe provides that converts PDF to > either text or html formats. > > If you come across a pdf file that you want to read on the Web, you > simply submit the url to the adobe conversion tool and it does the > conversion for you and then you can read it with your browser of choice. > The text solution requires you to email the pdf file to adobe's > conversion tool and they email you back the converted file almost > immediately. > > So, you can already read PDF from linux if you need or so choose, to do > so. > > The Adobe conversion tool and all you want to know about it can be found > at: > http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html > > > > > Stephen Dawes <B.A., B.Sc.> > Management Systems Analyst > The City of Calgary | Phone: (403) 268-5527 > Information Technology #8245 | Fax: (403) 268-2546 > PO Box 2100 Postal Station M. | Email: Stephen.Dawes@calgary.ca > Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5 | Web: http://www.calgary.ca > > > > > NOTICE - > This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation. > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040 Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG) janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~ UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux Dawes, Stephen
` Gregory Nowak
` Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
` Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
` Chris Gray
` unsubscribe! Outside Touch
` unsubscribe! Luke Yelavich
` An Accessible Adobe Reader for Linux Janina Sajka
` Laura Eaves
` Janina Sajka
` Adam Myrow
` Sean McMahon
` Sean McMahon
` Gregory Nowak
` Sean McMahon
` Gregory Nowak
` Janina Sajka
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).