Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

Kirk Reiser, on Fri 13 Jan 2017 09:50:24 -0500, wrote:
> If you have speakup running with espeakup just review up or down the
> screen with the 7 and 9 keys. You can feel the speech doesn't cut off
> immediately and in fact it sounds like you are mixing the speech from
> the previous line in the current line. It gives a sound like a shoosh
> at the start of each keystroke.

Ok, I think I see what you mean.

I believe it's actually an effect of our ears :)

I have noticed that espeak-ng is way more "reactive" than espeak, in
that when espeakup uses espeak-ng, key press echo happens way more
immediately than with espeak.  This is so that when ongoing speech is
interrupted by newer speech, there is no delay between the interrupted
speech and the new speech, and our ears mix the two. To get something
intelligible we need some delay, which happened to be introduced by
espeak only by luck, because it was taking time to start the speech.  I
have uploaded to

http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/

a version of espeakup which introduces a 150ms delay after the cancel.
This should be small enough to keep reactivity, but long enough to
clearly separate speech. You can tune this value with the additional -c
parameter.

I'll try to introduce that in brltty too.

Samuel

Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Samuel Thibault]

Samuel Thibault, on Sun 15 Jan 2017 15:57:48 +0100, wrote:
> I'll try to introduce that in brltty too.

I have uploaded brltty packages on 

http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/

too. The delay can be changed with the cancel_pause espeak parameter,
e.g.:

/sbin/brltty -S cancel_pause=150 blabla...

or

speech-parameters es:cancel_pause=150

Could people give a try to these packages, and see which value of the
cancel pause they prefer?

Samuel

Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Hart Larry]

While its a different type of package, I notice this overlap in 1 of the newer 
Voxin 1.6 in Vinux. Also while arrowing, speech rate seems to drop by 1 step 
until you re-read the current line.
Hart

[HEADS-UP] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

Could people really please test these brltty and espeakup packages?

In short: if I don't get feedback very soon, I'll have to revert them to
espeak for Stretch, which would be very sad.

If there is something preventing from doing the tests, please tell, I
can't guess it.

Since the migration to espeak-ng poses strong problems, we *have* to
fix them before the release. If people don't actually test the fixes,
there's no way we can be sure that things are alright. I did test these
packages, but since I'm no speech user, I can't have a good idea of what
*sounds* right.

We have to decide very soon what to do for the next Debian release,
Stretch. The full freeze is 5th February, we can't introduce big
changes after that date, plus the 10-day migration period, it basically
means we have to decide by 25th January. If I don't get reports saying
that brltty 5.4-5 and espeakup 0.80-4 are now good, I'll revert to
espeak by 25th January.

To make testing yet easier, I have uploaded the packages to be tested
(brltty 5.4-5 and espeakup 0.80-4) into experimental. They are now
already available with:

deb http://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd buildd-experimental main

Please test!

Samuel


Samuel Thibault, on Sun 15 Jan 2017 15:57:48 +0100, wrote:
> I have uploaded to
> 
> http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/
> 
> a version of espeakup which introduces a 150ms delay after the cancel.
> This should be small enough to keep reactivity, but long enough to
> clearly separate speech. You can tune this value with the additional -c
> parameter.

Samuel Thibault, on Sun 15 Jan 2017 16:19:55 +0100, wrote:
> I have uploaded brltty packages on 
> 
> http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/
> 
> too. The delay can be changed with the cancel_pause espeak parameter,
> e.g.:
> 
> /sbin/brltty -S cancel_pause=150 blabla...
> 
> or
> 
> speech-parameters es:cancel_pause=150
> 
> Could people give a try to these packages, and see which value of the
> cancel pause they prefer?

Samuel

Re: [HEADS-UP] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Samuel Thibault]

Samuel Thibault, on Mon 23 Jan 2017 13:21:03 +0100, wrote:
> deb http://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd buildd-experimental main

to be more precise: after having added this line to
/etc/apt/sources.list, run

apt-get update

apt-get install brltty=5.4-5

apt-get install espeakup=1:0.80-4

Samuel

Re: [HEADS-UP] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Samuel Thibault]

Samuel Thibault, on Mon 23 Jan 2017 13:31:24 +0100, wrote:
> Samuel Thibault, on Mon 23 Jan 2017 13:21:03 +0100, wrote:
> > deb http://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd buildd-experimental main
> 
> to be more precise: after having added this line to
> /etc/apt/sources.list, run
> 
> apt-get update
> 
> apt-get install brltty=5.4-5

I meant brltty-espeak=5.4-5 of course, the brltty package does not
contain the espeak driver, the brltty-espeak package does.

Samuel

Re: [HEADS-UP] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Øyvind Lode]

Hi:

I've upgraded both brltty and espeakup (remotely via ssh since I'm at work now).
I'll help you out test later today.

What exactly should I test?

I vaguely remember seeing a thread about some issues but I must say
that I never noticed it myself.


On 23 January 2017 at 13:31, Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> wrote:
> Samuel Thibault, on Mon 23 Jan 2017 13:21:03 +0100, wrote:
>> deb http://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd buildd-experimental main
>
> to be more precise: after having added this line to
> /etc/apt/sources.list, run
>
> apt-get update
>
> apt-get install brltty=5.4-5
>
> apt-get install espeakup=1:0.80-4
>
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: [HEADS-UP] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Mark Peveto]

Samual,
I don't have a lot in the way of technical knowledge, but I can try to help you test.  What do you need?  I don't use brltty, so if that's what you're
lookin for I might not be much help.


Mark Peveto
Registered Linux user number 600552
Everything happens after coffee!

On Mon, 23 Jan 2017, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Could people really please test these brltty and espeakup packages?
>
> In short: if I don't get feedback very soon, I'll have to revert them to
> espeak for Stretch, which would be very sad.
>
> If there is something preventing from doing the tests, please tell, I
> can't guess it.
>
> Since the migration to espeak-ng poses strong problems, we *have* to
> fix them before the release. If people don't actually test the fixes,
> there's no way we can be sure that things are alright. I did test these
> packages, but since I'm no speech user, I can't have a good idea of what
> *sounds* right.
>
> We have to decide very soon what to do for the next Debian release,
> Stretch. The full freeze is 5th February, we can't introduce big
> changes after that date, plus the 10-day migration period, it basically
> means we have to decide by 25th January. If I don't get reports saying
> that brltty 5.4-5 and espeakup 0.80-4 are now good, I'll revert to
> espeak by 25th January.
>
> To make testing yet easier, I have uploaded the packages to be tested
> (brltty 5.4-5 and espeakup 0.80-4) into experimental. They are now
> already available with:
>
> deb http://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd buildd-experimental main
>
> Please test!
>
> Samuel
>
>
> Samuel Thibault, on Sun 15 Jan 2017 15:57:48 +0100, wrote:
> > I have uploaded to
> >
> > http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/
> >
> > a version of espeakup which introduces a 150ms delay after the cancel.
> > This should be small enough to keep reactivity, but long enough to
> > clearly separate speech. You can tune this value with the additional -c
> > parameter.
>
> Samuel Thibault, on Sun 15 Jan 2017 16:19:55 +0100, wrote:
> > I have uploaded brltty packages on
> >
> > http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/
> >
> > too. The delay can be changed with the cancel_pause espeak parameter,
> > e.g.:
> >
> > /sbin/brltty -S cancel_pause=150 blabla...
> >
> > or
> >
> > speech-parameters es:cancel_pause=150
> >
> > Could people give a try to these packages, and see which value of the
> > cancel pause they prefer?
>
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: [HEADS-UP] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Øyvind Lode]

Hi:

I've just tested by logging in on the console.
To me all works as expected.
That said I rarely login on the console since I use Debian as a server
and do all admin work via ssh which means I really don't know whether
what I get now on this server running sid is normal or not.
However, speech on the console is very useful when I really need it
like if network issues etc.
I typed commands without issues.
I read log files.
I opened nano and I type really fast and of course I couldn't hear
every character entered but I've never been able to do that when
typing really fast.
I edited the text and I also opened some real config files and did some editing.
Sorry for not finding/hearing the speech overlap.


On 23 January 2017 at 14:41, Sebastian Humenda <shumenda@gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi Øyvind
>
> Øyvind Lode schrieb am 23.01.2017, 14:12 +0100:
>>I've upgraded both brltty and espeakup (remotely via ssh since I'm at work now).
>>I'll help you out test later today.
> Please also upgrade brltty-espeak.
>
>>What exactly should I test?
> -   Do you realize some kind of overlap when typing quickly?
> -   When navigating to a longer line, press Ctrl, do you recognize a delay
>     before the speech stops?
>     -   You have to have a keyboard table configured for this, put
>         `keyboard-table laptop` into `/etc/brltty/brltty.conf` for this.
> -   When scrolling to a lot of text, say an inbox of Mutt, do you have the
>     feeling that speech overlaps?
> -   There is a parameter which introduces a certain cancelling pause, put that
>     into your /etc/brltty.conf:
>     `speech-parameters es:cancel_pause=150`
>
>     150 is the default value, please try different values (lower means less
>     pause), to figure out whether everything sounds as expected.
>
> For me, a value of e.g. 10 works really fine when typing, but when scrolling
> through many lines of text, it still sounds weird, as if it would overlap. As
> Samuel already pointed out on IRC and here, it might be not an actual overlap,
> but one the ear percepts.
>
> At the moment, I feel as if a really small cancel pause would be the option I
> could live best with.
>
> Thanks
> Sebastian
> --
> Web: http://www.crustulus.de (English|Deutsch)  | Blog: http://www.crustulus.de/blog
> FreeDict: Free multilingual dictionaries - http://www.freedict.org
> Freies Latein-Deutsch-Wörterbuch: http://www.crustulus.de/freedict.de.html

[HEADS-UP part 2] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

Thanks to Sebastian's tests and reports (we ended up recording what was
produced with his audio setup), I could track and find what I believe
was the bug.

So, can people please test libespeak-ng1 version 1.49.0+dfsg-7 which
should be available within a few hours?  You can use the unstable
versions of espeakup (1:0.80-5) and brltty (5.4-6), do not use the
experimental versions which introduce a delay which is actually
spurious.

I hope this time it'll be good enough for Stretch :)

The technical details are in
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/issues/172#issuecomment-274682363
Basically, espeak used to close/reopen the audio card, which espeak-ng
didn't, and some drivers or cards or something else doesn't really flush
data if that's not done.

I have to apologize to Kirk notably, it seems that depending on audio
setups there indeed was real overlapping, not only ears glitches :)

Samuel

Re: [HEADS-UP part 2] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Al Sten-Clanton]

When do you need test results by?  Is it tomorrow, the 26th?  Thanks!

AlOn 01/23/2017 09:36 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Thanks to Sebastian's tests and reports (we ended up recording what was
> produced with his audio setup), I could track and find what I believe
> was the bug.
>
> So, can people please test libespeak-ng1 version 1.49.0+dfsg-7 which
> should be available within a few hours?  You can use the unstable
> versions of espeakup (1:0.80-5) and brltty (5.4-6), do not use the
> experimental versions which introduce a delay which is actually
> spurious.
>
> I hope this time it'll be good enough for Stretch :)
>
> The technical details are in
> https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/issues/172#issuecomment-274682363
> Basically, espeak used to close/reopen the audio card, which espeak-ng
> didn't, and some drivers or cards or something else doesn't really flush
> data if that's not done.
>
> I have to apologize to Kirk notably, it seems that depending on audio
> setups there indeed was real overlapping, not only ears glitches :)
>
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: [HEADS-UP part 2] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Samuel Thibault]

Al Sten-Clanton, on Mon 23 Jan 2017 21:40:01 -0500, wrote:
> When do you need test results by?  Is it tomorrow, the 26th?  Thanks!

By 25th, please :)

Thanks,
Samuel

Re: [HEADS-UP part 2] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Al Sten-Clanton]

I'll try to do it.

Al

On 01/23/2017 09:46 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Al Sten-Clanton, on Mon 23 Jan 2017 21:40:01 -0500, wrote:
>> When do you need test results by?  Is it tomorrow, the 26th?  Thanks!
>
> By 25th, please :)
>
> Thanks,
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: [HEADS-UP] Please test?Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Tom Fowle]

Am I correct to assume these versions do not effect use of speakup with
hardware synthesizers?
and would not apply to such setups using wheezie?
Thanks
Tom Fowle

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 02:07:48PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Samuel Thibault, on Mon 23 Jan 2017 13:31:24 +0100, wrote:
> > Samuel Thibault, on Mon 23 Jan 2017 13:21:03 +0100, wrote:
> > > deb http://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd buildd-experimental main
> > 
> > to be more precise: after having added this line to
> > /etc/apt/sources.list, run
> > 
> > apt-get update
> > 
> > apt-get install brltty=5.4-5
> 
> I meant brltty-espeak=5.4-5 of course, the brltty package does not
> contain the espeak driver, the brltty-espeak package does.
> 
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: [HEADS-UP] Please test?Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Samuel Thibault]

Tom Fowle, on Mon 23 Jan 2017 20:31:27 -0800, wrote:
> Am I correct to assume these versions do not effect use of speakup with
> hardware synthesizers?

Yes.

> and would not apply to such setups using wheezie?

It doesn't either.

Samuel

Re: [HEADS-UP] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Kirk Reiser]

Hello Samuel and all: I have to say the fixes you put in over the past
day or so have improved espeak-ng responsiveness emensely. I've only
done preliminary tests so far but it seems to behaving itself very
well indeed. Almost instant flushing and clean sounding moving between
lines with the review keys. I didn't think you were going to pull it
off but you've done a very nice job Samuel. Thank you for working on
this so diligently.

   Kirk


-- 
Well that's it then, colour me secure!

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Re: [HEADS-UP] Please test Re: Speech overlapping with espeak-ng

[Samuel Thibault]

Kirk Reiser, on Tue 24 Jan 2017 13:06:16 -0500, wrote:
> I have to say the fixes you put in over the past day or so have
> improved espeak-ng responsiveness emensely.

Cool :)

Samuel