* Re: vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes
@ pj
` Ari Moisio
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: pj @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Devon Stewart wrote:
> Does vim have a line-editor mode?
It depends what you mean; there is, like I say,
vim -c 'set lines=2'
but it's still a curses app, so it still speaks voluminous garbage
and takes over the whole screen so you can't use a screen-reader
to see what's been happening. Might as well use vim.
I don't think vim has any non-curses modes.
These days ex is usually a symlink to vim -e which is still
a curses app; anyway, then you should be using edbrowse.
Janina Sajka wrote:
> Hmmm, but one can do this all in vim already.
Oh yes, vibe is only ever going to be a small subset of vim.
But vim speaks lots of garbage, and takes over the whole screen etc.
I'm still fixing lots of vibe bugs within one version number,
I'll become more disciplined later...
http://www.pjb.com.au/blin/free/vibe
Peter
http://www.pjb.com.au pj@pjb.com.au (03) 6278 9410
"Follow the charge, not the particle." -- Richard Feynman
from The Theory of Positrons, Physical Review, 1949
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes
vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes pj
@ ` Ari Moisio
` covici
` Janina Sajka
2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Ari Moisio @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Hi
But if the screen reader and ncurses do not fit together would it be
better to fix one screen reader than re-invent the wheel N times?
My screen reader reads the /dev/vcsa device to find out what is in the
screen and even when it reads directly output to the screen it ignores
all control and cursor movement sequences.
No other problems than when the screen is updated it reads sometimes the
updated line instead of cursor line.
--
mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS
Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672
hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020
0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02
pj@pjb.com.au kirjoitti
> Subject: Re: vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes
> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:05:04 +1000
> From: pj@pjb.com.au
> To: speakup@linux-speakup.org
>
> Devon Stewart wrote:
>> Does vim have a line-editor mode?
>
> It depends what you mean; there is, like I say,
> vim -c 'set lines=2'
> but it's still a curses app, so it still speaks voluminous garbage
> and takes over the whole screen so you can't use a screen-reader
> to see what's been happening. Might as well use vim.
> I don't think vim has any non-curses modes.
> These days ex is usually a symlink to vim -e which is still
> a curses app; anyway, then you should be using edbrowse.
>
> Janina Sajka wrote:
>> Hmmm, but one can do this all in vim already.
>
> Oh yes, vibe is only ever going to be a small subset of vim.
> But vim speaks lots of garbage, and takes over the whole screen etc.
>
> I'm still fixing lots of vibe bugs within one version number,
> I'll become more disciplined later...
> http://www.pjb.com.au/blin/free/vibe
>
> Peter
>
> http://www.pjb.com.au pj@pjb.com.au (03) 6278 9410
> "Follow the charge, not the particle." -- Richard Feynman
> from The Theory of Positrons, Physical Review, 1949
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes
vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes pj
` Ari Moisio
@ ` covici
` Janina Sajka
2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: covici @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pj, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
I don't thinkex or vim -e uses the cursor at all, or even ncurses. I
have used both vim and ex successfully with speakup -- you just have to
silence the window where it reads out the position.
pj@pjb.com.au wrote:
> Devon Stewart wrote:
> > Does vim have a line-editor mode?
>
> It depends what you mean; there is, like I say,
> vim -c 'set lines=2'
> but it's still a curses app, so it still speaks voluminous garbage
> and takes over the whole screen so you can't use a screen-reader
> to see what's been happening. Might as well use vim.
> I don't think vim has any non-curses modes.
> These days ex is usually a symlink to vim -e which is still
> a curses app; anyway, then you should be using edbrowse.
>
> Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Hmmm, but one can do this all in vim already.
>
> Oh yes, vibe is only ever going to be a small subset of vim.
> But vim speaks lots of garbage, and takes over the whole screen etc.
>
> I'm still fixing lots of vibe bugs within one version number,
> I'll become more disciplined later...
> http://www.pjb.com.au/blin/free/vibe
>
> Peter
>
> http://www.pjb.com.au pj@pjb.com.au (03) 6278 9410
> "Follow the charge, not the particle." -- Richard Feynman
> from The Theory of Positrons, Physical Review, 1949
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?
John Covici
covici@ccs.covici.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes
vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes pj
` Ari Moisio
` covici
@ ` Janina Sajka
2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Yes, it's ncurses and takes the entire screen. However, I don't
experience the same consequence you express as a result. I'm not hearing
voluminous garbage and I'm definitely using Speakup as my screen reader
and only interface.
Can you say more about the voluminous garbage? And perhaps about what
you're looking for when you say "what's been happening?"
I'm all for improved tools, and I'm all for people having options. I'm
just puzzled, because I'm fairly picky about my interfaces.
Janina
pj@pjb.com.au writes:
> Devon Stewart wrote:
> > Does vim have a line-editor mode?
>
> It depends what you mean; there is, like I say,
> vim -c 'set lines=2'
> but it's still a curses app, so it still speaks voluminous garbage
> and takes over the whole screen so you can't use a screen-reader
> to see what's been happening. Might as well use vim.
> I don't think vim has any non-curses modes.
> These days ex is usually a symlink to vim -e which is still
> a curses app; anyway, then you should be using edbrowse.
>
> Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Hmmm, but one can do this all in vim already.
>
> Oh yes, vibe is only ever going to be a small subset of vim.
> But vim speaks lots of garbage, and takes over the whole screen etc.
>
> I'm still fixing lots of vibe bugs within one version number,
> I'll become more disciplined later...
> http://www.pjb.com.au/blin/free/vibe
>
> Peter
>
> http://www.pjb.com.au pj@pjb.com.au (03) 6278 9410
> "Follow the charge, not the particle." -- Richard Feynman
> from The Theory of Positrons, Physical Review, 1949
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
--
Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
Email: janina@rednote.net
Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes
@ pj
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: pj @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Hi. elvis has a non-curses mode. On the blinux list, Tim Chase wrote:
> Upon playing with "stevie" it seems that it doesn't actually support
> "open mode",
I wrote:
http://nosuch.com/tjt/stevie says it was last updated in 1988...
> but "elvis" (another vi clone) does.
> bash$ elvis myfile.txt
> :open
> or you can specify that you want to use open mode at the command-line:
> bash$ elvis -G open myfile.txt
> which you can alias with
> alias evi='elvis -G open'
> to make it easier.
Yup, that's nice, that's a serious candidate for vi users :-)
It does chew up screen-space, so if you need to copy-and-paste
anything into your file you'd better do that at the beginning
of the editing-session, and under yasr there is no key-echo
so you'd better touch-type well, but, yeah, it looks good.
vibe is now too far advanced for me to abandon it, but
elvis -G open is my default recommendation for ageing vi-users.
On debian, the package is: aptitude install elvis-console
( end cross-post )
Regards, Peter Billam
http://www.pjb.com.au pj@pjb.com.au (03) 6278 9410
"Follow the charge, not the particle." -- Richard Feynman
from The Theory of Positrons, Physical Review, 1949
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes
@ pj
` Janina Sajka
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: pj @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Greetings.
Being an ageing vi-user, and since vi doesn't handle screen-readers well,
I've been writing a line-editor in Perl with vi-like keystrokes.
I think highly of edbrowse, but I do miss my h j k l, and being able
to move the cursor within the line with b and w and Left and Right.
It's called vibe (the VI-like Blind Editor)
although I wonder if that's too ungoogleable
and so perhaps vivi (Visually Impaired VI) might be better?
The aim is to work like vim -c 'set lines=2' except to not use curses,
so as to be in more control of which characters would be output to
the screen and in what order, and to use this control to achieve
a comfortable speaking interface under both speakup and yasr.
Anyway, it's approaching releaseability and you can try it out with
cd /usr/local/bin
wget http://www.pjb.com.au/blin/free/vibe
chmod 755 vibe
perldoc vibe # read what manual there is :-)
It currently handles h j k l 5j ArrowKeys PageUp/Down { } 0 $ w b e :123
:1 Home :$ End /somestring /perlregexp[a-m]?\d+.txt$ J i I x p P dd d}
c C D !!fmt !}fmt dw d5w u Ctrl-R ZZ w n q wq
and many combinations of the above.
It is in its very early versions; there will be bugs, and some important
functions are still not implemented, such as r, R and :r filename.
Currently, the "u" undo-command only stores one level of history.
Helpful suggestions from fellow-vi-users gratefully received...
Regards, Peter Billam
http://www.pjb.com.au pj@pjb.com.au (03) 6278 9410
"Follow the charge, not the particle." -- Richard Feynman
from The Theory of Positrons, Physical Review, 1949
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes
pj
@ ` Janina Sajka
` Devon Stewart
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pj, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Hmmm, but one can do this all in vim already. OK, I confess, I didn't
check every keystroke you mention, but I'm certainly using b w j k r x i
a o O I and a host more all the time.
I did have trouble when my font was set for utf8. It's back to iso
8859-1 now. I'm thinking of trying -15 again, as I did find a cheat
sheet for that recently.
Janina
pj@pjb.com.au writes:
> Greetings.
>
> Being an ageing vi-user, and since vi doesn't handle screen-readers well,
> I've been writing a line-editor in Perl with vi-like keystrokes.
> I think highly of edbrowse, but I do miss my h j k l, and being able
> to move the cursor within the line with b and w and Left and Right.
> It's called vibe (the VI-like Blind Editor)
> although I wonder if that's too ungoogleable
> and so perhaps vivi (Visually Impaired VI) might be better?
>
> The aim is to work like vim -c 'set lines=2' except to not use curses,
> so as to be in more control of which characters would be output to
> the screen and in what order, and to use this control to achieve
> a comfortable speaking interface under both speakup and yasr.
>
> Anyway, it's approaching releaseability and you can try it out with
> cd /usr/local/bin
> wget http://www.pjb.com.au/blin/free/vibe
> chmod 755 vibe
> perldoc vibe # read what manual there is :-)
>
> It currently handles h j k l 5j ArrowKeys PageUp/Down { } 0 $ w b e :123
> :1 Home :$ End /somestring /perlregexp[a-m]?\d+.txt$ J i I x p P dd d}
> c C D !!fmt !}fmt dw d5w u Ctrl-R ZZ w n q wq
> and many combinations of the above.
>
> It is in its very early versions; there will be bugs, and some important
> functions are still not implemented, such as r, R and :r filename.
> Currently, the "u" undo-command only stores one level of history.
>
> Helpful suggestions from fellow-vi-users gratefully received...
>
> Regards, Peter Billam
>
> http://www.pjb.com.au pj@pjb.com.au (03) 6278 9410
> "Follow the charge, not the particle." -- Richard Feynman
> from The Theory of Positrons, Physical Review, 1949
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
--
Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
Email: janina@rednote.net
Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: vibe, a line-editor with vi-compatible keystrokes
` Janina Sajka
@ ` Devon Stewart
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Devon Stewart @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Does vim have a line-editor mode?
-Devon
On Jul 31, 2013, at 1:49 PM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
> Hmmm, but one can do this all in vim already. OK, I confess, I didn't
> check every keystroke you mention, but I'm certainly using b w j k r x i
> a o O I and a host more all the time.
>
> I did have trouble when my font was set for utf8. It's back to iso
> 8859-1 now. I'm thinking of trying -15 again, as I did find a cheat
> sheet for that recently.
>
> Janina
>
> pj@pjb.com.au writes:
>> Greetings.
>>
>> Being an ageing vi-user, and since vi doesn't handle screen-readers well,
>> I've been writing a line-editor in Perl with vi-like keystrokes.
>> I think highly of edbrowse, but I do miss my h j k l, and being able
>> to move the cursor within the line with b and w and Left and Right.
>> It's called vibe (the VI-like Blind Editor)
>> although I wonder if that's too ungoogleable
>> and so perhaps vivi (Visually Impaired VI) might be better?
>>
>> The aim is to work like vim -c 'set lines=2' except to not use curses,
>> so as to be in more control of which characters would be output to
>> the screen and in what order, and to use this control to achieve
>> a comfortable speaking interface under both speakup and yasr.
>>
>> Anyway, it's approaching releaseability and you can try it out with
>> cd /usr/local/bin
>> wget http://www.pjb.com.au/blin/free/vibe
>> chmod 755 vibe
>> perldoc vibe # read what manual there is :-)
>>
>> It currently handles h j k l 5j ArrowKeys PageUp/Down { } 0 $ w b e :123
>> :1 Home :$ End /somestring /perlregexp[a-m]?\d+.txt$ J i I x p P dd d}
>> c C D !!fmt !}fmt dw d5w u Ctrl-R ZZ w n q wq
>> and many combinations of the above.
>>
>> It is in its very early versions; there will be bugs, and some important
>> functions are still not implemented, such as r, R and :r filename.
>> Currently, the "u" undo-command only stores one level of history.
>>
>> Helpful suggestions from fellow-vi-users gratefully received...
>>
>> Regards, Peter Billam
>>
>> http://www.pjb.com.au pj@pjb.com.au (03) 6278 9410
>> "Follow the charge, not the particle." -- Richard Feynman
>> from The Theory of Positrons, Physical Review, 1949
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
> sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
> Email: janina@rednote.net
>
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
>
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
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