RE: dvorak

RE: dvorak

[LARRY SKUTCHAN]

Dvorak is a great keyboard layout.  I use it exclusively, and without
any scientific data, I find it much more efficient.  It does take a
month or two to get used to though, and it is a pain when you have to
use a qwerty machine.

The Dvorak home row is:
a o e u i d h t n s

The vowels are all on the left hand on home row.

>>> jimgrims@pacbell.net Thursday, April 07, 2005 5:07:56 AM >>>
Can I ask a question with out seeming totally dum here?  What is this
method of typing.  Now if everyone but me knows the answer to this a
private reply would be ok. 

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca 
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 8:43 PM
To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'
Subject: RE: dvorak


Hi Janina,

Because of trained muscle memory and experience using those pathways
in
the brain.

I do agree it's pretty OT, but it is interesting from a cognative
psychology and human computer interaction point of view.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca 
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] 
On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:39 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: dvorak

Well, it's probably quite OT, but I don't see how using experienced
typists discredits anything. I should think it's the other way around.

Sina Bahram writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> This is besides the point because I'm guessing that Igore is already
> used to qerty, but I believe those tests were disputed because they 
> were done with individuals who already knew qwerty?
> 
> If one starts out using vorak ... I don't know: I mean: qwerty was
> developed to be inefficient in the first place.
> 
> Take care,
> Sina
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca 
> [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] 
> On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:32 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: dvorak
> 
> Just curious as to why you think it's useful to learn Dvorak? Are
you
> aware the U.S. Navy did extensive typing tests between qwerty and 
> dvorak and found almost nodifference in speed and eficiency?
> 
> Igor Gueths writes:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > 
> > Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find
that
> > I'm going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to 
> > somewhat
> modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup commands which I
> believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while since I've
looked.
> > - --
> > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
chunks?
> > - -- Alan Cox
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> > 
> > iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> > Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> > =JghD
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC
http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com 
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group
(FSG)
> janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org 
> 
> If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different 
> problem.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

-- 

Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC
http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com 

Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org 

If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different
problem.


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 



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Re: dvorak

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.

Do you know of a good tutorial to help learning the new layout?

Thanks in advance.
          Kenny
	  
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 07:38:41AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> Dvorak is a great keyboard layout.  I use it exclusively, and without
> any scientific data, I find it much more efficient.  It does take a
> month or two to get used to though, and it is a pain when you have to
> use a qwerty machine.
> 
> The Dvorak home row is:
> a o e u i d h t n s

Re: dvorak

[Igor Gueths]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi there. I just press the keys and figure it out that way. In fact, I'm using dvorak for typing this.
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 12:33:31PM -0500, Kenny Hitt wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Do you know of a good tutorial to help learning the new layout?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
>           Kenny
> 	  
> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 07:38:41AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> > Dvorak is a great keyboard layout.  I use it exclusively, and without
> > any scientific data, I find it much more efficient.  It does take a
> > month or two to get used to though, and it is a pain when you have to
> > use a qwerty machine.
> > 
> > The Dvorak home row is:
> > a o e u i d h t n s
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check chunks?
- -- Alan Cox
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

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uTJfRmpNTuuaqB3ZZpMM4rM=
=j+8+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: dvorak

[David Csercsics]

Hey this dvorak thing is quite cool. I have decided to learn it too. It
will of course take a bit of getting used to but I quite like it so far. I
have made it my default keymap and I will get it figured out in time. I
found a good tutorial on the net and I'm working through it right now.

Re: dvorak

[Janina Sajka]

Wow, Larry! You've switched completely? That's fascinating. You're the
only one I know who's done that.

Funny. I was just thinking that it's easier for a blind person to
switch, because we're never going to be confused by those printed
letters on the keyboard. That also means that all we need to switch is
to load a different keymap.

How's that for keeping other people's fingers off your keyboard?

Hmmm, maybe there's some rationale here! <grin>

				Janina

LARRY SKUTCHAN writes:
> Dvorak is a great keyboard layout.  I use it exclusively, and without
> any scientific data, I find it much more efficient.  It does take a
> month or two to get used to though, and it is a pain when you have to
> use a qwerty machine.
> 
> The Dvorak home row is:
> a o e u i d h t n s
> 
> The vowels are all on the left hand on home row.

Re: dvorak

[Sean McMahon]

The question is if you switch to dvorak, will the speakup help system still
correctly identify the keys?  At first you'll be pretty confused.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: dvorak


> Wow, Larry! You've switched completely? That's fascinating. You're the
> only one I know who's done that.
>
> Funny. I was just thinking that it's easier for a blind person to
> switch, because we're never going to be confused by those printed
> letters on the keyboard. That also means that all we need to switch is
> to load a different keymap.
>
> How's that for keeping other people's fingers off your keyboard?
>
> Hmmm, maybe there's some rationale here! <grin>
>
> Janina
>
> LARRY SKUTCHAN writes:
> > Dvorak is a great keyboard layout.  I use it exclusively, and without
> > any scientific data, I find it much more efficient.  It does take a
> > month or two to get used to though, and it is a pain when you have to
> > use a qwerty machine.
> >
> > The Dvorak home row is:
> > a o e u i d h t n s
> >
> > The vowels are all on the left hand on home row.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: dvorak

[LARRY SKUTCHAN]

Yes, I've been using it for several years now, and I would never
consider going back.

It sure does keep other people off your keyboard, but I found that I
need a way to get the qwerty back for those times when other people want
to use my system in my account.

In Linux, I have a command called aoeu and one called asdf.  That way,
no matter which layout you have, you can switch to the other by typing
the first four letters on the left side of home row.


>>> janina@rednote.net Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:09:18 PM >>>
Wow, Larry! You've switched completely? That's fascinating. You're the
only one I know who's done that.

Funny. I was just thinking that it's easier for a blind person to
switch, because we're never going to be confused by those printed
letters on the keyboard. That also means that all we need to switch is
to load a different keymap.

How's that for keeping other people's fingers off your keyboard?

Hmmm, maybe there's some rationale here! <grin>

				Janina

LARRY SKUTCHAN writes:
> Dvorak is a great keyboard layout.  I use it exclusively, and
without
> any scientific data, I find it much more efficient.  It does take a
> month or two to get used to though, and it is a pain when you have
to
> use a qwerty machine.
> 
> The Dvorak home row is:
> a o e u i d h t n s
> 
> The vowels are all on the left hand on home row.

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: dvorak

[Sean McMahon]

How did you change your keyboard layout?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "LARRY SKUTCHAN" <lskutchan@aph.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: dvorak


> Yes, I've been using it for several years now, and I would never
> consider going back.
> 
> It sure does keep other people off your keyboard, but I found that I
> need a way to get the qwerty back for those times when other people want
> to use my system in my account.
> 
> In Linux, I have a command called aoeu and one called asdf.  That way,
> no matter which layout you have, you can switch to the other by typing
> the first four letters on the left side of home row.
> 
> 
> >>> janina@rednote.net Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:09:18 PM >>>
> Wow, Larry! You've switched completely? That's fascinating. You're the
> only one I know who's done that.
> 
> Funny. I was just thinking that it's easier for a blind person to
> switch, because we're never going to be confused by those printed
> letters on the keyboard. That also means that all we need to switch is
> to load a different keymap.
> 
> How's that for keeping other people's fingers off your keyboard?
> 
> Hmmm, maybe there's some rationale here! <grin>
> 
> Janina
> 
> LARRY SKUTCHAN writes:
> > Dvorak is a great keyboard layout.  I use it exclusively, and
> without
> > any scientific data, I find it much more efficient.  It does take a
> > month or two to get used to though, and it is a pain when you have
> to
> > use a qwerty machine.
> > 
> > The Dvorak home row is:
> > a o e u i d h t n s
> > 
> > The vowels are all on the left hand on home row.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: dvorak

[LARRY SKUTCHAN]

I found many good tutorials on the net.  Just search for dvorak
tutorial.


>>> kenny@hittsjunk.net Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:33:31 PM >>>
Hi.

Do you know of a good tutorial to help learning the new layout?

Thanks in advance.
          Kenny
	  
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 07:38:41AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> Dvorak is a great keyboard layout.  I use it exclusively, and
without
> any scientific data, I find it much more efficient.  It does take a
> month or two to get used to though, and it is a pain when you have
to
> use a qwerty machine.
> 
> The Dvorak home row is:
> a o e u i d h t n s

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: dvorak

[LARRY SKUTCHAN]

I stand corrected.  sorry, I've just been using the keypad and function
keys.  Your original message is correct.


>>> igueths@lava-net.com Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:21:36 AM >>>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Do you know the name of the keymap you're using? I'll give it a try
again later, however last I checked I couldn't get my review keys
working with the Dvorak layout...I'm assuming you were 
using the qwerty layout of review keys, while typing in the Dvorak
layout? 
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 08:15:58AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> Actually, I have no idea, I just know it works flawlessly.  I am
using
> it on several machines that way.
> 
> 
> >>> igueths@lava-net.com Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:09:33 AM >>>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 07:46:53AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> > No you don't have to do a thing to the Speakup table to use it
with
> the
> > Dvorak layout.
> 
> Hmm...How do you end up switching to Dvorak and have Speakup retain
the
> same review keys? Bc I loadkeys'ed a dvorak keymap I found in my
> /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/i386/dvorak and found that I had 
> lost my review keys. This makes sense, since the original map wasn't
> designed around Dvorak in the first place. Therefore, I figured my
only
> alternative would be designing a whole new keymap 
> around the different keycodes. Thanks!
> > 
> > 
> > >>> igueths@lava-net.com Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:25:56 PM >>>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > 
> > Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find
that
> I'm
> > going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to
somewhat
> > modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup 
> > commands which I believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a
while
> > since I've looked.
> > - -- 
> > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
> > chunks?
> > - -- Alan Cox
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> > 
> > iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> > Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> > =JghD
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 
> 
> - -- 
> How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
> chunks?
> - -- Alan Cox
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFCVSL9Nohoaf1zXJMRAy/iAJ9mf6VaJN9CCrS8022S0OawEOw8+ACfX/Ue
> o+RlOHoPnLU4o3ZO777+eCA=
> =sc1k
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

- -- 
How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
chunks?
- -- Alan Cox
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

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=e3pF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: dvorak

[LARRY SKUTCHAN]

Actually, I have no idea, I just know it works flawlessly.  I am using
it on several machines that way.


>>> igueths@lava-net.com Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:09:33 AM >>>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 07:46:53AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> No you don't have to do a thing to the Speakup table to use it with
the
> Dvorak layout.

Hmm...How do you end up switching to Dvorak and have Speakup retain the
same review keys? Bc I loadkeys'ed a dvorak keymap I found in my
/usr/share/kbd/keymaps/i386/dvorak and found that I had 
lost my review keys. This makes sense, since the original map wasn't
designed around Dvorak in the first place. Therefore, I figured my only
alternative would be designing a whole new keymap 
around the different keycodes. Thanks!
> 
> 
> >>> igueths@lava-net.com Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:25:56 PM >>>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that
I'm
> going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to somewhat
> modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup 
> commands which I believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while
> since I've looked.
> - -- 
> How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
> chunks?
> - -- Alan Cox
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> =JghD
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

- -- 
How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
chunks?
- -- Alan Cox
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCVSL9Nohoaf1zXJMRAy/iAJ9mf6VaJN9CCrS8022S0OawEOw8+ACfX/Ue
o+RlOHoPnLU4o3ZO777+eCA=
=sc1k
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
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Re: dvorak

[Igor Gueths]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Do you know the name of the keymap you're using? I'll give it a try again later, however last I checked I couldn't get my review keys working with the Dvorak layout...I'm assuming you were 
using the qwerty layout of review keys, while typing in the Dvorak layout? 
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 08:15:58AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> Actually, I have no idea, I just know it works flawlessly.  I am using
> it on several machines that way.
> 
> 
> >>> igueths@lava-net.com Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:09:33 AM >>>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 07:46:53AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> > No you don't have to do a thing to the Speakup table to use it with
> the
> > Dvorak layout.
> 
> Hmm...How do you end up switching to Dvorak and have Speakup retain the
> same review keys? Bc I loadkeys'ed a dvorak keymap I found in my
> /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/i386/dvorak and found that I had 
> lost my review keys. This makes sense, since the original map wasn't
> designed around Dvorak in the first place. Therefore, I figured my only
> alternative would be designing a whole new keymap 
> around the different keycodes. Thanks!
> > 
> > 
> > >>> igueths@lava-net.com Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:25:56 PM >>>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > 
> > Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that
> I'm
> > going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to somewhat
> > modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup 
> > commands which I believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while
> > since I've looked.
> > - -- 
> > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
> > chunks?
> > - -- Alan Cox
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> > 
> > iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> > Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> > =JghD
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 
> 
> - -- 
> How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
> chunks?
> - -- Alan Cox
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFCVSL9Nohoaf1zXJMRAy/iAJ9mf6VaJN9CCrS8022S0OawEOw8+ACfX/Ue
> o+RlOHoPnLU4o3ZO777+eCA=
> =sc1k
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check chunks?
- -- Alan Cox
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCVSXQNohoaf1zXJMRA5WxAJ4tos//oXD4dGK2wCOSycoR4bfFLACfRKl9
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=e3pF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: dvorak

[Sean McMahon]

How do you change your keyboard layout?  I want the alt key bo work like the
escape key does in emacs.  I thought that was the default, but no luck.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@lava-net.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: dvorak


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Do you know the name of the keymap you're using? I'll give it a try again
later, however last I checked I couldn't get my review keys working with the
Dvorak layout...I'm assuming you were
> using the qwerty layout of review keys, while typing in the Dvorak layout?
> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 08:15:58AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> > Actually, I have no idea, I just know it works flawlessly.  I am using
> > it on several machines that way.
> >
> >
> > >>> igueths@lava-net.com Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:09:33 AM >>>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 07:46:53AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> > > No you don't have to do a thing to the Speakup table to use it with
> > the
> > > Dvorak layout.
> >
> > Hmm...How do you end up switching to Dvorak and have Speakup retain the
> > same review keys? Bc I loadkeys'ed a dvorak keymap I found in my
> > /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/i386/dvorak and found that I had
> > lost my review keys. This makes sense, since the original map wasn't
> > designed around Dvorak in the first place. Therefore, I figured my only
> > alternative would be designing a whole new keymap
> > around the different keycodes. Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > > >>> igueths@lava-net.com Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:25:56 PM >>>
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > >
> > > Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that
> > I'm
> > > going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to somewhat
> > > modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup
> > > commands which I believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while
> > > since I've looked.
> > > - -- 
> > > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
> > > chunks?
> > > - -- Alan Cox
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> > >
> > > iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> > > Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> > > =JghD
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > - -- 
> > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
> > chunks?
> > - -- Alan Cox
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iD8DBQFCVSL9Nohoaf1zXJMRAy/iAJ9mf6VaJN9CCrS8022S0OawEOw8+ACfX/Ue
> > o+RlOHoPnLU4o3ZO777+eCA=
> > =sc1k
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> - -- 
> How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check chunks?
> - -- Alan Cox
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFCVSXQNohoaf1zXJMRA5WxAJ4tos//oXD4dGK2wCOSycoR4bfFLACfRKl9
> wmwtzDooUHKYE89696dyb5Y=
> =e3pF
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: dvorak

[LARRY SKUTCHAN]

No you don't have to do a thing to the Speakup table to use it with the
Dvorak layout.


>>> igueths@lava-net.com Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:25:56 PM >>>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that I'm
going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to somewhat
modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup 
commands which I believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while
since I've looked.
- -- 
How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
chunks?
- -- Alan Cox
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
=JghD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: dvorak

[Igor Gueths]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 07:46:53AM -0400, LARRY SKUTCHAN wrote:
> No you don't have to do a thing to the Speakup table to use it with the
> Dvorak layout.

Hmm...How do you end up switching to Dvorak and have Speakup retain the same review keys? Bc I loadkeys'ed a dvorak keymap I found in my /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/i386/dvorak and found that I had 
lost my review keys. This makes sense, since the original map wasn't designed around Dvorak in the first place. Therefore, I figured my only alternative would be designing a whole new keymap 
around the different keycodes. Thanks!
> 
> 
> >>> igueths@lava-net.com Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:25:56 PM >>>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that I'm
> going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to somewhat
> modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup 
> commands which I believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while
> since I've looked.
> - -- 
> How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
> chunks?
> - -- Alan Cox
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> =JghD
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check chunks?
- -- Alan Cox
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCVSL9Nohoaf1zXJMRAy/iAJ9mf6VaJN9CCrS8022S0OawEOw8+ACfX/Ue
o+RlOHoPnLU4o3ZO777+eCA=
=sc1k
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

dvorak

[Igor Gueths]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that I'm going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to somewhat modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup 
commands which I believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while since I've looked.
- -- 
How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check chunks?
- -- Alan Cox
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
=JghD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: dvorak

[Janina Sajka]

Just curious as to why you think it's useful to learn Dvorak? Are you
aware the U.S. Navy did extensive typing tests between qwerty and dvorak
and found almost nodifference in speed and eficiency?

Igor Gueths writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that I'm going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to somewhat modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup 
> commands which I believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while since I've looked.
> - -- 
> How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check chunks?
> - -- Alan Cox
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> =JghD
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com

Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org

If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.

RE: dvorak

[Sina Bahram]

Hi Janina,

This is besides the point because I'm guessing that Igore is already used to
qerty, but I believe those tests were disputed because they were done with
individuals who already knew qwerty?

If one starts out using vorak ... I don't know: I mean: qwerty was developed
to be inefficient in the first place.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:32 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: dvorak

Just curious as to why you think it's useful to learn Dvorak? Are you aware
the U.S. Navy did extensive typing tests between qwerty and dvorak and found
almost nodifference in speed and eficiency?

Igor Gueths writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that 
> I'm going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to somewhat
modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup commands which I believe is
contained in speakup.c? Its been a while since I've looked.
> - --
> How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check chunks?
> - -- Alan Cox
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> =JghD
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com

Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org

If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: dvorak

[Janina Sajka]

Well, it's probably quite OT, but I don't see how using experienced
typists discredits anything. I should think it's the other way around.

Sina Bahram writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> This is besides the point because I'm guessing that Igore is already used to
> qerty, but I believe those tests were disputed because they were done with
> individuals who already knew qwerty?
> 
> If one starts out using vorak ... I don't know: I mean: qwerty was developed
> to be inefficient in the first place.
> 
> Take care,
> Sina
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
> On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:32 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: dvorak
> 
> Just curious as to why you think it's useful to learn Dvorak? Are you aware
> the U.S. Navy did extensive typing tests between qwerty and dvorak and found
> almost nodifference in speed and eficiency?
> 
> Igor Gueths writes:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > 
> > Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that 
> > I'm going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to somewhat
> modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup commands which I believe is
> contained in speakup.c? Its been a while since I've looked.
> > - --
> > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check chunks?
> > - -- Alan Cox
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> > 
> > iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> > Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> > =JghD
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
> janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org
> 
> If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com

Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org

If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.

RE: dvorak

[Sina Bahram]

Hi Janina,

Because of trained muscle memory and experience using those pathways in the
brain.

I do agree it's pretty OT, but it is interesting from a cognative psychology
and human computer interaction point of view.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:39 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: dvorak

Well, it's probably quite OT, but I don't see how using experienced typists
discredits anything. I should think it's the other way around.

Sina Bahram writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> This is besides the point because I'm guessing that Igore is already 
> used to qerty, but I believe those tests were disputed because they 
> were done with individuals who already knew qwerty?
> 
> If one starts out using vorak ... I don't know: I mean: qwerty was 
> developed to be inefficient in the first place.
> 
> Take care,
> Sina
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca 
> [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
> On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:32 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: dvorak
> 
> Just curious as to why you think it's useful to learn Dvorak? Are you 
> aware the U.S. Navy did extensive typing tests between qwerty and 
> dvorak and found almost nodifference in speed and eficiency?
> 
> Igor Gueths writes:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > 
> > Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that 
> > I'm going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to 
> > somewhat
> modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup commands which I 
> believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while since I've looked.
> > - --
> > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
chunks?
> > - -- Alan Cox
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> > 
> > iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> > Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> > =JghD
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
> janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org
> 
> If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com

Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org

If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: dvorak

[jim grimsby]

Can I ask a question with out seeming totally dum here?  What is this
method of typing.  Now if everyone but me knows the answer to this a
private reply would be ok. 

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 8:43 PM
To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'
Subject: RE: dvorak


Hi Janina,

Because of trained muscle memory and experience using those pathways in
the brain.

I do agree it's pretty OT, but it is interesting from a cognative
psychology and human computer interaction point of view.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:39 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: dvorak

Well, it's probably quite OT, but I don't see how using experienced
typists discredits anything. I should think it's the other way around.

Sina Bahram writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> This is besides the point because I'm guessing that Igore is already
> used to qerty, but I believe those tests were disputed because they 
> were done with individuals who already knew qwerty?
> 
> If one starts out using vorak ... I don't know: I mean: qwerty was
> developed to be inefficient in the first place.
> 
> Take care,
> Sina
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
> On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:32 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: dvorak
> 
> Just curious as to why you think it's useful to learn Dvorak? Are you
> aware the U.S. Navy did extensive typing tests between qwerty and 
> dvorak and found almost nodifference in speed and eficiency?
> 
> Igor Gueths writes:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > 
> > Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that
> > I'm going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to 
> > somewhat
> modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup commands which I
> believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while since I've looked.
> > - --
> > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
chunks?
> > - -- Alan Cox
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> > 
> > iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> > Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> > =JghD
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC
http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group
(FSG)
> janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org
> 
> If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different 
> problem.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC
http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com

Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org

If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different
problem.


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: dvorak

[Sean McMahon]

dvorac is how typewriters first mapped out their keyboard.  I don't remember the
layout exactly, the idea is you have commonly used letters placed close
together.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jim grimsby" <jimgrims@pacbell.net>
To: "'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 2:07 AM
Subject: RE: dvorak


Can I ask a question with out seeming totally dum here?  What is this
method of typing.  Now if everyone but me knows the answer to this a
private reply would be ok.

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 8:43 PM
To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'
Subject: RE: dvorak


Hi Janina,

Because of trained muscle memory and experience using those pathways in
the brain.

I do agree it's pretty OT, but it is interesting from a cognative
psychology and human computer interaction point of view.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:39 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: dvorak

Well, it's probably quite OT, but I don't see how using experienced
typists discredits anything. I should think it's the other way around.

Sina Bahram writes:
> Hi Janina,
>
> This is besides the point because I'm guessing that Igore is already
> used to qerty, but I believe those tests were disputed because they
> were done with individuals who already knew qwerty?
>
> If one starts out using vorak ... I don't know: I mean: qwerty was
> developed to be inefficient in the first place.
>
> Take care,
> Sina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
> On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:32 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: dvorak
>
> Just curious as to why you think it's useful to learn Dvorak? Are you
> aware the U.S. Navy did extensive typing tests between qwerty and
> dvorak and found almost nodifference in speed and eficiency?
>
> Igor Gueths writes:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> >
> > Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that
> > I'm going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to
> > somewhat
> modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup commands which I
> believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while since I've looked.
> > - --
> > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
chunks?
> > - -- Alan Cox
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> > Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> > =JghD
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC
http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
>
> Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group
(FSG)
> janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
>
> If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different
> problem.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC
http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com

Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org

If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different
problem.


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: dvorak

[Janina Sajka]

jim grimsby writes:
> Can I ask a question with out seeming totally dum here?  What is this
> method of typing.
It's a different arrangement of the chars on the typewriter/computer
keyboard. The guy who came up with this different arrangement tried to
convince us all to switch. The debate still goes on, in some places for
some folks.

Re: dvorak

[Janina Sajka]

Yeah, Sina. If we go there, then we almost have to say you can never get
as proficient, unless you're under the age of 10 when you start.

Still, there are people that master difficult skills--whether manual,
intellectual, or some kind of psycho-muscular combination. Language is a
good example. By and large, most of us never really get comfortable with
a foreign language unless we start very young. If we do start young, we
might be as good as native in multiple languages. Still, there are those
adults who get so good they really come very close.

Sina Bahram writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> Because of trained muscle memory and experience using those pathways in the
> brain.
> 
> I do agree it's pretty OT, but it is interesting from a cognative psychology
> and human computer interaction point of view.
> 
> Take care,
> Sina
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
> On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:39 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: dvorak
> 
> Well, it's probably quite OT, but I don't see how using experienced typists
> discredits anything. I should think it's the other way around.
> 
> Sina Bahram writes:
> > Hi Janina,
> > 
> > This is besides the point because I'm guessing that Igore is already 
> > used to qerty, but I believe those tests were disputed because they 
> > were done with individuals who already knew qwerty?
> > 
> > If one starts out using vorak ... I don't know: I mean: qwerty was 
> > developed to be inefficient in the first place.
> > 
> > Take care,
> > Sina
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca 
> > [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
> > On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:32 PM
> > To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> > Subject: Re: dvorak
> > 
> > Just curious as to why you think it's useful to learn Dvorak? Are you 
> > aware the U.S. Navy did extensive typing tests between qwerty and 
> > dvorak and found almost nodifference in speed and eficiency?
> > 
> > Igor Gueths writes:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > > 
> > > Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that 
> > > I'm going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to 
> > > somewhat
> > modify the sort of table of keycodes to Speakup commands which I 
> > believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while since I've looked.
> > > - --
> > > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check
> chunks?
> > > - -- Alan Cox
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> > > 
> > > iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> > > Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> > > =JghD
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
> > Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
> > janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org
> > 
> > If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
> janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org
> 
> If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com

Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org

If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.

RE: dvorak

[jim grimsby]

Well, it's probably quite OT, but I don't see how using experienced
typists discredits anything. I should think it's the other way around.
Well if you have a new linux user and you first test them in windows and
then test them in linux you might come up with the idea that linux is
less efficient because they know windows and do not know linux.  The
test would be to test a  non computer user in one gui and then test in
another gui and find witch one the user for the most part uses more
fashintly.  I know for a fact if you tried to change the way I type and
then sent me back to the old way I type I would do better using the old
system.  
Hth 

Re: dvorak

[Sean McMahon]

That's interesting.  Probably did the tests with querty native typests.  Querty
was afterall created because people were typing so fast with dvorak that
typewriters would jam.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: dvorak


> Just curious as to why you think it's useful to learn Dvorak? Are you
> aware the U.S. Navy did extensive typing tests between qwerty and dvorak
> and found almost nodifference in speed and eficiency?
>
> Igor Gueths writes:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> >
> > Hi all. I was briefly playing with the Dvorak layout, and find that I'm
going to see if I can't learn it. I take it I would have to somewhat modify the
sort of table of keycodes to Speakup
> > commands which I believe is contained in speakup.c? Its been a while since
I've looked.
> > - -- 
> > How many chunks could checkchunk check if checkchunck could check chunks?
> > - -- Alan Cox
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iD8DBQFCVGH0Nohoaf1zXJMRAw5vAKCKV1Nb+D88MvX0c5w3Z776pl6HCgCfYPQi
> > Sb3Oaqql0wgsnxa+PiIPRvU=
> > =JghD
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
>
> Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
> janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
>
> If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup