Get Out Of Jail Free!

Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

This message is for Octavian and anyone else who has not yet
learned that you don't need to reboot Linux to solve a problem.

Here's what to do instead:

1.)	Become root in another console and kill the application
that is giving you trouble. In Octavian's example the application
is emacs, so here's the appropriate command for root to give in
another console:

killall emacs

2.)	If all else fails, kill the console session as root from
another console. get a listing of everything running in the
console where you got stuck. If that console is tty1, for
example, you would do:

ps -t tty1

This will print out a list of all the running processes in tty1.
Find the one that says "bash" on the right hand side of the line,
and note the process id, called pid, on the left. Then kill that
pid as follows:

kill -9 pid

where pid is the process id you identified for bash above.

There are more elegant ways to get out of trouble, but these two
will keep you learning and keep you from wasting time rebooting. 

To learn more about these things look at the man pages for
killall, kill, pidof, and ps.



-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

My last message assumed something that should probably not be
assumed.

You need to know how to change consoles.

By default, you have six that you can have different identities
in. For example, you can be your ordinary username in consoles 1,
3, 4, 5, and 6, but be root in console 2.

Use Ctrl-Alt plus the first six function keys to switch consoles.
In other words, Ctrl-Alt-F1 (meaning the function key labeled f1
to the right of Esc) will take you to console 1, Ctrl-Alt-F2 will
take you to the second console, etc.

PS: I give these instructions with Ctrl, because that's what we
should start getting used to. People who've been doing this with
just Alt should know that they'll have to add the Ctrl in order
to get out of X, and Gnopernicus is coming, so it's time to get
ready.


-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Deedra Waters]

On the topic of gnomb and gnopernicus Does anyone know how far off that
is, how well it's going to work with different things, and how useable it
will be?



On Sun, 19 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> My last message assumed something that should probably not be
> assumed.
> 
> You need to know how to change consoles.
> 
> By default, you have six that you can have different identities
> in. For example, you can be your ordinary username in consoles 1,
> 3, 4, 5, and 6, but be root in console 2.
> 
> Use Ctrl-Alt plus the first six function keys to switch consoles.
> In other words, Ctrl-Alt-F1 (meaning the function key labeled f1
> to the right of Esc) will take you to console 1, Ctrl-Alt-F2 will
> take you to the second console, etc.
> 
> PS: I give these instructions with Ctrl, because that's what we
> should start getting used to. People who've been doing this with
> just Alt should know that they'll have to add the Ctrl in order
> to get out of X, and Gnopernicus is coming, so it's time to get
> ready.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

Autumn, no, and no.


But I expect it to be quite nice. Knowing is another matter.

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Deedra Waters wrote:

> On the topic of gnomb and gnopernicus Does anyone know how far off that
> is, how well it's going to work with different things, and how useable it
> will be?
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 19 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > My last message assumed something that should probably not be
> > assumed.
> > 
> > You need to know how to change consoles.
> > 
> > By default, you have six that you can have different identities
> > in. For example, you can be your ordinary username in consoles 1,
> > 3, 4, 5, and 6, but be root in console 2.
> > 
> > Use Ctrl-Alt plus the first six function keys to switch consoles.
> > In other words, Ctrl-Alt-F1 (meaning the function key labeled f1
> > to the right of Esc) will take you to console 1, Ctrl-Alt-F2 will
> > take you to the second console, etc.
> > 
> > PS: I give these instructions with Ctrl, because that's what we
> > should start getting used to. People who've been doing this with
> > just Alt should know that they'll have to add the Ctrl in order
> > to get out of X, and Gnopernicus is coming, so it's time to get
> > ready.
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Hi, thank you.
I've seen  the other message and I've asked this question.

... and of course, I've tried with alt+function keys but nothing happend. I
will try with control+alt now.

Regarding hotkeys, is it possible to define some hotkeys, like
control+shift+ a letter or number  and assign a command line to this hotkey?
It would be nice to press Control+shift+e for printing the last few lines of
a log file using the tail command.

Thsnks.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


My last message assumed something that should probably not be
assumed.

You need to know how to change consoles.

By default, you have six that you can have different identities
in. For example, you can be your ordinary username in consoles 1,
3, 4, 5, and 6, but be root in console 2.

Use Ctrl-Alt plus the first six function keys to switch consoles.
In other words, Ctrl-Alt-F1 (meaning the function key labeled f1
to the right of Esc) will take you to console 1, Ctrl-Alt-F2 will
take you to the second console, etc.

PS: I give these instructions with Ctrl, because that's what we
should start getting used to. People who've been doing this with
just Alt should know that they'll have to add the Ctrl in order
to get out of X, and Gnopernicus is coming, so it's time to get
ready.


--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

You can redirect out to your print spool with the greater than
symbol as follows:

tail myfile > /dev/lp

Notice that redirection is more useful than hotkeys because you
can also redirect output to a file or another
process/application.

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Hi, thank you.
> I've seen  the other message and I've asked this question.
> 
> ... and of course, I've tried with alt+function keys but nothing happend. I
> will try with control+alt now.
> 
> Regarding hotkeys, is it possible to define some hotkeys, like
> control+shift+ a letter or number  and assign a command line to this hotkey?
> It would be nice to press Control+shift+e for printing the last few lines of
> a log file using the tail command.
> 
> Thsnks.
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 4:06 AM
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> 
> 
> My last message assumed something that should probably not be
> assumed.
> 
> You need to know how to change consoles.
> 
> By default, you have six that you can have different identities
> in. For example, you can be your ordinary username in consoles 1,
> 3, 4, 5, and 6, but be root in console 2.
> 
> Use Ctrl-Alt plus the first six function keys to switch consoles.
> In other words, Ctrl-Alt-F1 (meaning the function key labeled f1
> to the right of Esc) will take you to console 1, Ctrl-Alt-F2 will
> take you to the second console, etc.
> 
> PS: I give these instructions with Ctrl, because that's what we
> should start getting used to. People who've been doing this with
> just Alt should know that they'll have to add the Ctrl in order
> to get out of X, and Gnopernicus is coming, so it's time to get
> ready.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Cecil H. Whitley]

Hi,
You can use the "alias" command to equate a "command name" to the commands
you wish executed.
Regards,
Cecil

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Yes I know about the alias command and I use lll instead of ls -l but I want
to have a hotkey instead of this command.

Thanks for details.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


Hi,
You can use the "alias" command to equate a "command name" to the commands
you wish executed.
Regards,
Cecil


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Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
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Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Patricia Logan]

You can use the "alias" command to equate a "command name" to the 
commands
you wish executed.
     I have read this sentence several times and have no idea 
what it means.  Please explainand give an example.

     Thanks

     Pat Logan

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

You can define a simple command like "error" and when you type that command
it will execute another longer and harder to type command like:
tail /etc/httpd/conf/yourname.error_log

But this is not very helpful.
I would like something faster.

For example, I am in pine, and I would like to open another application in
another console.
I would like to press Control+alt+g, and that hotkey to start another
console with the defined application opened.

Unfortunately this is not possible under Linux, only under Windows.
I hope these features will be  available under the Linux GUI.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patricia Logan" <plogan@dorsai.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


You can use the "alias" command to equate a "command name" to the
commands
you wish executed.
     I have read this sentence several times and have no idea
what it means.  Please explainand give an example.

     Thanks

     Pat Logan


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> For example, I am in pine, and I would like to open another application in
> another console.
> I would like to press Control+alt+g, and that hotkey to start another
> console with the defined application opened.

Yes there is something like this that's very powerful. It's
called screen. Type 'man screen' to learn about screen.

> 
> Unfortunately this is not possible under Linux, only under Windows.

Wrong again.

Teddy, Teddy, just because you don't know something doesn't mean
it doesn't exist. 

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Thank you for the screen command. I didn't know about it.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


> On Tue, 21 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> > For example, I am in pine, and I would like to open another application
in
> > another console.
> > I would like to press Control+alt+g, and that hotkey to start another
> > console with the defined application opened.
>
> Yes there is something like this that's very powerful. It's
> called screen. Type 'man screen' to learn about screen.
>
> >
> > Unfortunately this is not possible under Linux, only under Windows.
>
> Wrong again.
>
> Teddy, Teddy, just because you don't know something doesn't mean
> it doesn't exist.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Hi,

I want to print the file on the screen (or should I say STDOUT?
But I would like to have a hotkey that prints that command line. Is it
possible?
It will be more simple than printing a long line, even though I remember it.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


You can redirect out to your print spool with the greater than
symbol as follows:

tail myfile > /dev/lp

Notice that redirection is more useful than hotkeys because you
can also redirect output to a file or another
process/application.

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Hi, thank you.
> I've seen  the other message and I've asked this question.
>
> ... and of course, I've tried with alt+function keys but nothing happend.
I
> will try with control+alt now.
>
> Regarding hotkeys, is it possible to define some hotkeys, like
> control+shift+ a letter or number  and assign a command line to this
hotkey?
> It would be nice to press Control+shift+e for printing the last few lines
of
> a log file using the tail command.
>
> Thsnks.
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 4:06 AM
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
>
>
> My last message assumed something that should probably not be
> assumed.
>
> You need to know how to change consoles.
>
> By default, you have six that you can have different identities
> in. For example, you can be your ordinary username in consoles 1,
> 3, 4, 5, and 6, but be root in console 2.
>
> Use Ctrl-Alt plus the first six function keys to switch consoles.
> In other words, Ctrl-Alt-F1 (meaning the function key labeled f1
> to the right of Esc) will take you to console 1, Ctrl-Alt-F2 will
> take you to the second console, etc.
>
> PS: I give these instructions with Ctrl, because that's what we
> should start getting used to. People who've been doing this with
> just Alt should know that they'll have to add the Ctrl in order
> to get out of X, and Gnopernicus is coming, so it's time to get
> ready.
>
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, you are right. Sorry about that, I didn't check to see if that combination works in console mode, but it does, I thought it was only usefull in x.
Greg


On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 07:44:27AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I want to print the file on the screen (or should I say STDOUT?
> But I would like to have a hotkey that prints that command line. Is it
> possible?
> It will be more simple than printing a long line, even though I remember it.
> 
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> 
> 
> You can redirect out to your print spool with the greater than
> symbol as follows:
> 
> tail myfile > /dev/lp
> 
> Notice that redirection is more useful than hotkeys because you
> can also redirect output to a file or another
> process/application.
> 
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> 
> > Hi, thank you.
> > I've seen  the other message and I've asked this question.
> >
> > ... and of course, I've tried with alt+function keys but nothing happend.
> I
> > will try with control+alt now.
> >
> > Regarding hotkeys, is it possible to define some hotkeys, like
> > control+shift+ a letter or number  and assign a command line to this
> hotkey?
> > It would be nice to press Control+shift+e for printing the last few lines
> of
> > a log file using the tail command.
> >
> > Thsnks.
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 4:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> >
> >
> > My last message assumed something that should probably not be
> > assumed.
> >
> > You need to know how to change consoles.
> >
> > By default, you have six that you can have different identities
> > in. For example, you can be your ordinary username in consoles 1,
> > 3, 4, 5, and 6, but be root in console 2.
> >
> > Use Ctrl-Alt plus the first six function keys to switch consoles.
> > In other words, Ctrl-Alt-F1 (meaning the function key labeled f1
> > to the right of Esc) will take you to console 1, Ctrl-Alt-F2 will
> > take you to the second console, etc.
> >
> > PS: I give these instructions with Ctrl, because that's what we
> > should start getting used to. People who've been doing this with
> > just Alt should know that they'll have to add the Ctrl in order
> > to get out of X, and Gnopernicus is coming, so it's time to get
> > ready.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Did I understand correctly?
Is it possible to define a hotkey in a console?
How should I do that?
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


Yes, you are right. Sorry about that, I didn't check to see if that
combination works in console mode, but it does, I thought it was only
usefull in x.
Greg


On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 07:44:27AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to print the file on the screen (or should I say STDOUT?
> But I would like to have a hotkey that prints that command line. Is it
> possible?
> It will be more simple than printing a long line, even though I remember
it.
>
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
>
>
> You can redirect out to your print spool with the greater than
> symbol as follows:
>
> tail myfile > /dev/lp
>
> Notice that redirection is more useful than hotkeys because you
> can also redirect output to a file or another
> process/application.
>
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> > Hi, thank you.
> > I've seen  the other message and I've asked this question.
> >
> > ... and of course, I've tried with alt+function keys but nothing
happend.
> I
> > will try with control+alt now.
> >
> > Regarding hotkeys, is it possible to define some hotkeys, like
> > control+shift+ a letter or number  and assign a command line to this
> hotkey?
> > It would be nice to press Control+shift+e for printing the last few
lines
> of
> > a log file using the tail command.
> >
> > Thsnks.
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 4:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> >
> >
> > My last message assumed something that should probably not be
> > assumed.
> >
> > You need to know how to change consoles.
> >
> > By default, you have six that you can have different identities
> > in. For example, you can be your ordinary username in consoles 1,
> > 3, 4, 5, and 6, but be root in console 2.
> >
> > Use Ctrl-Alt plus the first six function keys to switch consoles.
> > In other words, Ctrl-Alt-F1 (meaning the function key labeled f1
> > to the right of Esc) will take you to console 1, Ctrl-Alt-F2 will
> > take you to the second console, etc.
> >
> > PS: I give these instructions with Ctrl, because that's what we
> > should start getting used to. People who've been doing this with
> > just Alt should know that they'll have to add the Ctrl in order
> > to get out of X, and Gnopernicus is coming, so it's time to get
> > ready.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Yes, emacs has macros and also you can do new keybindings if you
want.  Read about it.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Teddy, you will not hear anything in any other console because you
have Emacspeak with the software speech running in only one console.
The other consoles  have no speech in any other console.  Only way to
get that is to start a second emacspeak session in a separate console,
or to use speakup which gives you speech throughout.

Ann P.
>>>>> "Octavian" == Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@home.ro> writes:

    Octavian> Hi, thank you.  I've seen the other message and I've
    Octavian> asked this question.

    Octavian> ... and of course, I've tried with alt+function keys but
    Octavian> nothing happend. I will try with control+alt now.

    Octavian> Regarding hotkeys, is it possible to define some
    Octavian> hotkeys, like control+shift+ a letter or number and
    Octavian> assign a command line to this hotkey?  It would be nice
    Octavian> to press Control+shift+e for printing the last few lines
    Octavian> of a log file using the tail command.

    Octavian> Thsnks.  Teddy, orasnita@home.ro

    Octavian> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka"
    Octavian> <janina@afb.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent:
    Octavian> Monday, May 20, 2002 4:06 AM Subject: Re: Get Out Of
    Octavian> Jail Free!


    Octavian> My last message assumed something that should probably
    Octavian> not be assumed.

    Octavian> You need to know how to change consoles.

    Octavian> By default, you have six that you can have different
    Octavian> identities in. For example, you can be your ordinary
    Octavian> username in consoles 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6, but be root in
    Octavian> console 2.

    Octavian> Use Ctrl-Alt plus the first six function keys to switch
    Octavian> consoles.  In other words, Ctrl-Alt-F1 (meaning the
    Octavian> function key labeled f1 to the right of Esc) will take
    Octavian> you to console 1, Ctrl-Alt-F2 will take you to the
    Octavian> second console, etc.

    Octavian> PS: I give these instructions with Ctrl, because that's
    Octavian> what we should start getting used to. People who've been
    Octavian> doing this with just Alt should know that they'll have
    Octavian> to add the Ctrl in order to get out of X, and
    Octavian> Gnopernicus is coming, so it's time to get ready.


    Octavian> --

    Octavian> Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and
    Octavian> Development Governmental Relations Group American
    Octavian> Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

    Octavian> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

    Octavian> Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum
    Octavian> (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org


    Octavian> _______________________________________________ Speakup
    Octavian> mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
    Octavian> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup



    Octavian> _______________________________________________ Speakup
    Octavian> mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
    Octavian> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Yes, I know that, and I've tried to type emacspeak in the next opened
console, but I didn't know that I should login there also. Now I know.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


Hi all,

Teddy, you will not hear anything in any other console because you
have Emacspeak with the software speech running in only one console.
The other consoles  have no speech in any other console.  Only way to
get that is to start a second emacspeak session in a separate console,
or to use speakup which gives you speech throughout.

Ann P.
>>>>> "Octavian" == Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@home.ro> writes:

    Octavian> Hi, thank you.  I've seen the other message and I've
    Octavian> asked this question.

    Octavian> ... and of course, I've tried with alt+function keys but
    Octavian> nothing happend. I will try with control+alt now.

    Octavian> Regarding hotkeys, is it possible to define some
    Octavian> hotkeys, like control+shift+ a letter or number and
    Octavian> assign a command line to this hotkey?  It would be nice
    Octavian> to press Control+shift+e for printing the last few lines
    Octavian> of a log file using the tail command.

    Octavian> Thsnks.  Teddy, orasnita@home.ro

    Octavian> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka"
    Octavian> <janina@afb.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent:
    Octavian> Monday, May 20, 2002 4:06 AM Subject: Re: Get Out Of
    Octavian> Jail Free!


    Octavian> My last message assumed something that should probably
    Octavian> not be assumed.

    Octavian> You need to know how to change consoles.

    Octavian> By default, you have six that you can have different
    Octavian> identities in. For example, you can be your ordinary
    Octavian> username in consoles 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6, but be root in
    Octavian> console 2.

    Octavian> Use Ctrl-Alt plus the first six function keys to switch
    Octavian> consoles.  In other words, Ctrl-Alt-F1 (meaning the
    Octavian> function key labeled f1 to the right of Esc) will take
    Octavian> you to console 1, Ctrl-Alt-F2 will take you to the
    Octavian> second console, etc.

    Octavian> PS: I give these instructions with Ctrl, because that's
    Octavian> what we should start getting used to. People who've been
    Octavian> doing this with just Alt should know that they'll have
    Octavian> to add the Ctrl in order to get out of X, and
    Octavian> Gnopernicus is coming, so it's time to get ready.


    Octavian> --

    Octavian> Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and
    Octavian> Development Governmental Relations Group American
    Octavian> Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

    Octavian> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

    Octavian> Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum
    Octavian> (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org


    Octavian> _______________________________________________ Speakup
    Octavian> mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
    Octavian> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup



    Octavian> _______________________________________________ Speakup
    Octavian> mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
    Octavian> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

--
Ann K. Parsons
email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Hi, Thank you, a few questions:

1.) Become root in another console and kill the application

Q: How to become root in another console?

that is giving you trouble. In Octavian's example the application
is emacs, so here's the appropriate command for root to give in
another console:

killall emacs

2.) If all else fails, kill the console session as root from
another console. get a listing of everything running in the
console where you got stuck. If that console is tty1, for
example, you would do:

ps -t tty1

This will print out a list of all the running processes in tty1.
Find the one that says "bash" on the right hand side of the line,
and note the process id, called pid, on the left. Then kill that
pid as follows:

kill -9 pid

where pid is the process id you identified for bash above.

Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to find
out the PID of the process I should kill.

There are more elegant ways to get out of trouble, but these two
will keep you learning and keep you from wasting time rebooting.

To learn more about these things look at the man pages for
killall, kill, pidof, and ps.

Thanks.

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Q: How to become root in another console?

Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
what function keys are, right?

Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
logged in and login as root.

Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.

If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
you use for your username, type:

su -

and provide the root password.

Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
it?
> Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to find
> out the PID of the process I should kill.
> 
In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
Windows.

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Gregory Nowak]

This is correct, however, drop the ctrl key.
Greg


On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 11:43:49PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> 
> > Q: How to become root in another console?
> 
> Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> what function keys are, right?
> 
> Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> logged in and login as root.
> 
> Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> 
> If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> you use for your username, type:
> 
> su -
> 
> and provide the root password.
> 
> Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> it?
> > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to find
> > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> > 
> In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> Windows.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

No, Greg, leave the Ctrl key in. Read the rest of my note to
understand why. You'll thank me after you get Gnopernicus.

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> This is correct, however, drop the ctrl key.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 11:43:49PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > 
> > > Q: How to become root in another console?
> > 
> > Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> > function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> > what function keys are, right?
> > 
> > Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> > logged in and login as root.
> > 
> > Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> > to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> > seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> > telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> > talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> > 
> > If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> > you use for your username, type:
> > 
> > su -
> > 
> > and provide the root password.
> > 
> > Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> > from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> > it?
> > > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to find
> > > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> > > 
> > In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> > open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> > Windows.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Deedra Waters]

Janina,  maybe we should  leave gnopernicus out of this for now?  You make
it sound like this will be a great thing, and who knows, maybe it will,
but the problem I'm seeing with that right  now is 1, we don't have any
info on it, and 2 your comment about control and alt keys has apparrently
confused someone



On Mon, 20 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> No, Greg, leave the Ctrl key in. Read the rest of my note to
> understand why. You'll thank me after you get Gnopernicus.
> 
> On Sun, 19 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > This is correct, however, drop the ctrl key.
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 11:43:49PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Q: How to become root in another console?
> > > 
> > > Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> > > function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> > > what function keys are, right?
> > > 
> > > Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> > > logged in and login as root.
> > > 
> > > Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> > > to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> > > seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> > > telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> > > talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> > > 
> > > If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> > > you use for your username, type:
> > > 
> > > su -
> > > 
> > > and provide the root password.
> > > 
> > > Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> > > from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> > > it?
> > > > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to find
> > > > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> > > > 
> > > In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> > > open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> > > Windows.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

Do as you will, certainly. I choose to leave it in because my
experience suggests that learning good habits pays off. There's
nothing to be lost from adding the Ctrl today, and everythuing to
be gained. On the other hand, we know that Alt is limited
already. If you're leaving a X session--because you got your
install wrong and are in runlevel 5, you won't get out without
the Ctrl. That's the fact today.

I'm sure Greg will be unconfused soon enough.

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Deedra Waters wrote:

> Janina,  maybe we should  leave gnopernicus out of this for now?  You make
> it sound like this will be a great thing, and who knows, maybe it will,
> but the problem I'm seeing with that right  now is 1, we don't have any
> info on it, and 2 your comment about control and alt keys has apparrently
> confused someone
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > No, Greg, leave the Ctrl key in. Read the rest of my note to
> > understand why. You'll thank me after you get Gnopernicus.
> > 
> > On Sun, 19 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > 
> > > This is correct, however, drop the ctrl key.
> > > Greg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 11:43:49PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Q: How to become root in another console?
> > > > 
> > > > Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> > > > function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> > > > what function keys are, right?
> > > > 
> > > > Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> > > > logged in and login as root.
> > > > 
> > > > Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> > > > to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> > > > seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> > > > telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> > > > talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> > > > 
> > > > If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> > > > you use for your username, type:
> > > > 
> > > > su -
> > > > 
> > > > and provide the root password.
> > > > 
> > > > Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> > > > from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> > > > it?
> > > > > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to find
> > > > > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> > > > > 
> > > > In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> > > > open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> > > > Windows.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

I can't read the screen to see what is happening so please tell what happen
when pressing only the alt key.

I tried it this way, with no results.
I will try it with control.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


No, Greg, leave the Ctrl key in. Read the rest of my note to
understand why. You'll thank me after you get Gnopernicus.

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> This is correct, however, drop the ctrl key.
> Greg
>
>
> On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 11:43:49PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> >
> > > Q: How to become root in another console?
> >
> > Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> > function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> > what function keys are, right?
> >
> > Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> > logged in and login as root.
> >
> > Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> > to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> > seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> > telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> > talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> >
> > If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> > you use for your username, type:
> >
> > su -
> >
> > and provide the root password.
> >
> > Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> > from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> > it?
> > > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to
find
> > > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> > >
> > In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> > open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> > Windows.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

You are in a different terminal,

Log in.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> You are in a different terminal,
> 
> Log in.  


Possibly, he needs to understand that under Linux you login for
each and every console session you open. This is different from
Windows where you login once as you boot.  In essence, Windows
has only one console to offer, so he likely doesn't understand
the concept of consoles.

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Yes, that is true, but why you advanced Linux users  don't try to help
people from Windows world to learn Linux?
You think that in these days if someone wants to learn Linux, they don't
know Windows.

I think almost all new Linux users know Windows now.

It is not like 10 years ago.
Fortunately.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!



On Tue, 21 May 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> You are in a different terminal,
>
> Log in.


Possibly, he needs to understand that under Linux you login for
each and every console session you open. This is different from
Windows where you login once as you boot.  In essence, Windows
has only one console to offer, so he likely doesn't understand
the concept of consoles.



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Toby Fisher]

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

>
> On Tue, 21 May 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > You are in a different terminal,
> >
> > Log in.
>
>
> Possibly, he needs to understand that under Linux you login for
> each and every console session you open. This is different from
> Windows where you login once as you boot.  In essence, Windows
> has only one console to offer, so he likely doesn't understand
> the concept of consoles.

Hey, come on guys.  I know that some of Octavian's messages haven't been
of the best, but at least read them.  He's already stated that he logs in
over telnet.  This means that your changing of consoles won't work for
him.

Octavian, if you are working at the consol and your emacs-speak stops
speaking, you might want to try telneting to your box from Windows, to
ensure that your box is still alive.  Then, you can follow the other steps
outlined by Janina to kill the relevant process.  I know it's not ideal,
as you of course want to use Linux from the consol, but it is the lowest
risk solution, as constant reboots could eventually cause your file
systems to become corrupted if you're not running ext3fs or similar.  The
other thing that springs to mind is that emacs-speak or via voice may
crash if you're trying to run them on a consol other than directly, i.e.
if you're trying to use them after logging in over telnet, these apps may
not appreciate it.
Also, as has been previously stated, don't forget that you can open more
than one telnet session to your Linux machine from your Windows box, so
you can use these extra sessions to check the status of seemingly dead
processes if you want/need to.

 Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

Nothing happens if you press just Ctrl or just Alt. What makes
you think it would? Nobody said that.



On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> I can't read the screen to see what is happening so please tell what happen
> when pressing only the alt key.
> 
> I tried it this way, with no results.
> I will try it with control.
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 7:41 AM
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> 
> 
> No, Greg, leave the Ctrl key in. Read the rest of my note to
> understand why. You'll thank me after you get Gnopernicus.
> 
> On Sun, 19 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > This is correct, however, drop the ctrl key.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 11:43:49PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > >
> > > > Q: How to become root in another console?
> > >
> > > Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> > > function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> > > what function keys are, right?
> > >
> > > Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> > > logged in and login as root.
> > >
> > > Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> > > to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> > > seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> > > telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> > > talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> > >
> > > If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> > > you use for your username, type:
> > >
> > > su -
> > >
> > > and provide the root password.
> > >
> > > Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> > > from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> > > it?
> > > > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to
> find
> > > > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> > > >
> > > In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> > > open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> > > Windows.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Ed Barnes]

Hanina: I'm wondering, will the next question be, where's the pull down 
menu, the file menu and all that. I'm laughing, <big grin>. Ed


On Tue, 21 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:04:09 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
> Reply-To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> 
> Nothing happens if you press just Ctrl or just Alt. What makes
> you think it would? Nobody said that.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> 
> > I can't read the screen to see what is happening so please tell what happen
> > when pressing only the alt key.
> > 
> > I tried it this way, with no results.
> > I will try it with control.
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 7:41 AM
> > Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> > 
> > 
> > No, Greg, leave the Ctrl key in. Read the rest of my note to
> > understand why. You'll thank me after you get Gnopernicus.
> > 
> > On Sun, 19 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > 
> > > This is correct, however, drop the ctrl key.
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 11:43:49PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Q: How to become root in another console?
> > > >
> > > > Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> > > > function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> > > > what function keys are, right?
> > > >
> > > > Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> > > > logged in and login as root.
> > > >
> > > > Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> > > > to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> > > > seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> > > > telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> > > > talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> > > >
> > > > If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> > > > you use for your username, type:
> > > >
> > > > su -
> > > >
> > > > and provide the root password.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> > > > from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> > > > it?
> > > > > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to
> > find
> > > > > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> > > > >
> > > > In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> > > > open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> > > > Windows.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

See? That's why there aren't too many Linux users.
You think all new Linux users  know at least Unix.

BTW. Do you know a mailing list for Linux blind beginners?
I don't think that there is such a thing, because nobody wants to learn the
beginners in Linux world. That's why Windows has such a big success.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Barnes" <edbarnes@anomaly.2y.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


Hanina: I'm wondering, will the next question be, where's the pull down
menu, the file menu and all that. I'm laughing, <big grin>. Ed


On Tue, 21 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:04:09 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
> Reply-To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
>
> Nothing happens if you press just Ctrl or just Alt. What makes
> you think it would? Nobody said that.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> > I can't read the screen to see what is happening so please tell what
happen
> > when pressing only the alt key.
> >
> > I tried it this way, with no results.
> > I will try it with control.
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 7:41 AM
> > Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> >
> >
> > No, Greg, leave the Ctrl key in. Read the rest of my note to
> > understand why. You'll thank me after you get Gnopernicus.
> >
> > On Sun, 19 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > This is correct, however, drop the ctrl key.
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 11:43:49PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Q: How to become root in another console?
> > > >
> > > > Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> > > > function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> > > > what function keys are, right?
> > > >
> > > > Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> > > > logged in and login as root.
> > > >
> > > > Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> > > > to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> > > > seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> > > > telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> > > > talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> > > >
> > > > If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> > > > you use for your username, type:
> > > >
> > > > su -
> > > >
> > > > and provide the root password.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> > > > from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> > > > it?
> > > > > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want
to
> > find
> > > > > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> > > > >
> > > > In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> > > > open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> > > > Windows.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Ed Barnes]

Hi Octavian.
To answer your question I don't know of any Linux newbie mailing lists 
specifically geared toward blind people.
I am a relative beginner with regard to using Linux myself, however; I 
never really looked to find a newbie list.
To a point I am sort of the opposite to you with regard to how I learn in 
that I like reading docs, man pages, and sometimes howtos.
I ask a few questions now and then and I'm greatful for the answers I've 
received from many of the more experienced Linux users on this list.
Note however that I know I didn't say that to use Linux a person must know 
Unix first though both operating systems have a great deal in common, and 
unless I drastically miss-understood something over the past few days i 
don't think anyone else did either.
Also, in regard to your comment that Microsoft does so well because the 
people that know Linux dont' want to take the time to help newbies, I'm 
sorry, I'm very much offended, I'm not offended because I've done a great 
deal for you but attitudes like yours make other people who arelatively 
new to Linux look like winers who make excuses and such. 
Many members of this list have helped you a great deal since you joined it 
so the credability of a statement such as the one you made regarding 
veteran Linuxers not wishing to help newbies is zero in my opinion. 
Further to this thread and my statements about the helpfulness of members 
of this list may I point that my saved messages folder is 80% messages 
from this list even though I subscribe to other mailing lists devoted to 
other topics asside from Linux, this is because I tend to file messages 
containg command infoand more so I can refer to them later.
Lastly, you may increase your probability of success if you concentrated 
more on how things are done in Linux instead of comparing pieces of advice 
given by users to what you already know, that being Windows, and complaing 
ing less. Expend some of the energy you use comparing things unnecessarily 
toward more positive things and more useful tasks like playing around and 
seeing what happens under Linux.
As a newbie you probably won't break anything that can't be fixed or 
anything that other newbies before you or I hasn't broken.
Folks these are just my opinions and I hope I've not offended anyone in 
expressing them as that isn't my intent.
Regards to all, Ed.

Re: Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Gregory Nowak]

I just want to make one small comment. My understanding is that unix is a family of operating systems, and that GNU/Linux is a member of that family, just like Sunos is a member of that family. Thus, unix and GNU/Linux are not separate operatingsystems, which you seem to be implying in your post.
Greg


On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 03:14:13AM -0230, Ed Barnes wrote:
> Hi Octavian.
> To answer your question I don't know of any Linux newbie mailing lists 
> specifically geared toward blind people.
> I am a relative beginner with regard to using Linux myself, however; I 
> never really looked to find a newbie list.
> To a point I am sort of the opposite to you with regard to how I learn in 
> that I like reading docs, man pages, and sometimes howtos.
> I ask a few questions now and then and I'm greatful for the answers I've 
> received from many of the more experienced Linux users on this list.
> Note however that I know I didn't say that to use Linux a person must know 
> Unix first though both operating systems have a great deal in common, and 
> unless I drastically miss-understood something over the past few days i 
> don't think anyone else did either.
> Also, in regard to your comment that Microsoft does so well because the 
> people that know Linux dont' want to take the time to help newbies, I'm 
> sorry, I'm very much offended, I'm not offended because I've done a great 
> deal for you but attitudes like yours make other people who arelatively 
> new to Linux look like winers who make excuses and such. 
> Many members of this list have helped you a great deal since you joined it 
> so the credability of a statement such as the one you made regarding 
> veteran Linuxers not wishing to help newbies is zero in my opinion. 
> Further to this thread and my statements about the helpfulness of members 
> of this list may I point that my saved messages folder is 80% messages 
> from this list even though I subscribe to other mailing lists devoted to 
> other topics asside from Linux, this is because I tend to file messages 
> containg command infoand more so I can refer to them later.
> Lastly, you may increase your probability of success if you concentrated 
> more on how things are done in Linux instead of comparing pieces of advice 
> given by users to what you already know, that being Windows, and complaing 
> ing less. Expend some of the energy you use comparing things unnecessarily 
> toward more positive things and more useful tasks like playing around and 
> seeing what happens under Linux.
> As a newbie you probably won't break anything that can't be fixed or 
> anything that other newbies before you or I hasn't broken.
> Folks these are just my opinions and I hope I've not offended anyone in 
> expressing them as that isn't my intent.
> Regards to all, Ed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Toby Fisher]

On Wed, 22 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> I just want to make one small comment. My understanding is that unix
> is a family of operating systems, and that GNU/Linux is a member of
> that family, just like Sunos is a member of that family. Thus, unix
> and GNU/Linux are not separate operatingsystems, which you seem to be
> implying in your post.

Actually, Greg, technically speaking, Linux is not a member o the Unix
family.  Ok, so it's just picking hairs, but it has not fully complied
with the relevant standards, and although the contraventions are small,
they do exist so in the strictest sense, Linux is not a unix, or at least,
wasn't quite recently.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Igor Gueths]

Also, Linux is a kernel, not an operating system. The operating system are the distributions Debian, Redhat, Caldera, Mandrake, Yellow Dog, etc. Those are the operating sustems which contain the package managers, and various packages for different tasks. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Toby Fisher <toby_fisher@bigfoot.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


> On Wed, 22 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > I just want to make one small comment. My understanding is that unix
> > is a family of operating systems, and that GNU/Linux is a member of
> > that family, just like Sunos is a member of that family. Thus, unix
> > and GNU/Linux are not separate operatingsystems, which you seem to be
> > implying in your post.
> 
> Actually, Greg, technically speaking, Linux is not a member o the Unix
> family.  Ok, so it's just picking hairs, but it has not fully complied
> with the relevant standards, and although the contraventions are small,
> they do exist so in the strictest sense, Linux is not a unix, or at least,
> wasn't quite recently.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> -- 
> Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
> Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
> ICQ: #61744808
>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Gregory Nowak]

That's why the entire operating system is properly referred to as GNU/Linux.
Greg


On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 02:49:34PM -0400, Igor Gueths wrote:
> Also, Linux is a kernel, not an operating system. The operating system are the distributions Debian, Redhat, Caldera, Mandrake, Yellow Dog, etc. Those are the operating sustems which contain the package managers, and various packages for different tasks. 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Toby Fisher <toby_fisher@bigfoot.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> 
> 
> > On Wed, 22 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > 
> > > I just want to make one small comment. My understanding is that unix
> > > is a family of operating systems, and that GNU/Linux is a member of
> > > that family, just like Sunos is a member of that family. Thus, unix
> > > and GNU/Linux are not separate operatingsystems, which you seem to be
> > > implying in your post.
> > 
> > Actually, Greg, technically speaking, Linux is not a member o the Unix
> > family.  Ok, so it's just picking hairs, but it has not fully complied
> > with the relevant standards, and although the contraventions are small,
> > they do exist so in the strictest sense, Linux is not a unix, or at least,
> > wasn't quite recently.
> > 
> > Cheers.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
> > Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
> > ICQ: #61744808
> >    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> >    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

I didn't say (or I didn't mean at least) that the listers don't want to
help.
I say that the advanced Linux users tell me their style of learning and
don't try to  understand my style and explain me in that way. This is the
first thing a teacher do.
Someone who tries to help others with information should find out first the
level of competence of the person that tries to learn and the style of
learning, the abilities, etc.
On a list like this, I won't expect such a thing, but I am just comparing
the style of learning of Linux users with the style of learning of Windows
users.

And my style of learning fits the Windows one.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Barnes" <edbarnes@anomaly.2y.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 8:44 AM
Subject: Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


> Hi Octavian.
> To answer your question I don't know of any Linux newbie mailing lists
> specifically geared toward blind people.
> I am a relative beginner with regard to using Linux myself, however; I
> never really looked to find a newbie list.
> To a point I am sort of the opposite to you with regard to how I learn in
> that I like reading docs, man pages, and sometimes howtos.
> I ask a few questions now and then and I'm greatful for the answers I've
> received from many of the more experienced Linux users on this list.
> Note however that I know I didn't say that to use Linux a person must know
> Unix first though both operating systems have a great deal in common, and
> unless I drastically miss-understood something over the past few days i
> don't think anyone else did either.
> Also, in regard to your comment that Microsoft does so well because the
> people that know Linux dont' want to take the time to help newbies, I'm
> sorry, I'm very much offended, I'm not offended because I've done a great
> deal for you but attitudes like yours make other people who arelatively
> new to Linux look like winers who make excuses and such.
> Many members of this list have helped you a great deal since you joined it
> so the credability of a statement such as the one you made regarding
> veteran Linuxers not wishing to help newbies is zero in my opinion.
> Further to this thread and my statements about the helpfulness of members
> of this list may I point that my saved messages folder is 80% messages
> from this list even though I subscribe to other mailing lists devoted to
> other topics asside from Linux, this is because I tend to file messages
> containg command infoand more so I can refer to them later.
> Lastly, you may increase your probability of success if you concentrated
> more on how things are done in Linux instead of comparing pieces of advice
> given by users to what you already know, that being Windows, and complaing
> ing less. Expend some of the energy you use comparing things unnecessarily
> toward more positive things and more useful tasks like playing around and
> seeing what happens under Linux.
> As a newbie you probably won't break anything that can't be fixed or
> anything that other newbies before you or I hasn't broken.
> Folks these are just my opinions and I hope I've not offended anyone in
> expressing them as that isn't my intent.
> Regards to all, Ed.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

Octavian:

Don't confuse assumptions with learning style. Whatever your
"style," you've definitely got a head full of "how it is in
Windows." That's just plain irrelevant here. You will have to let
go of that to make progress in Linux. If you can't, well then,
you can just go back to Windows.

I return to my language analogy. Don't expect that Chinese will
mirror Rumanian syntax, because it won't. So, don't bother
complaining when it doesn't, because you can't expect any
different.

On Thu, 23 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> I didn't say (or I didn't mean at least) that the listers don't want to
> help.
> I say that the advanced Linux users tell me their style of learning and
> don't try to  understand my style and explain me in that way. This is the
> first thing a teacher do.
> Someone who tries to help others with information should find out first the
> level of competence of the person that tries to learn and the style of
> learning, the abilities, etc.
> On a list like this, I won't expect such a thing, but I am just comparing
> the style of learning of Linux users with the style of learning of Windows
> users.
> 
> And my style of learning fits the Windows one.
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Barnes" <edbarnes@anomaly.2y.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 8:44 AM
> Subject: Newbie Lists And more, was; Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> 
> 
> > Hi Octavian.
> > To answer your question I don't know of any Linux newbie mailing lists
> > specifically geared toward blind people.
> > I am a relative beginner with regard to using Linux myself, however; I
> > never really looked to find a newbie list.
> > To a point I am sort of the opposite to you with regard to how I learn in
> > that I like reading docs, man pages, and sometimes howtos.
> > I ask a few questions now and then and I'm greatful for the answers I've
> > received from many of the more experienced Linux users on this list.
> > Note however that I know I didn't say that to use Linux a person must know
> > Unix first though both operating systems have a great deal in common, and
> > unless I drastically miss-understood something over the past few days i
> > don't think anyone else did either.
> > Also, in regard to your comment that Microsoft does so well because the
> > people that know Linux dont' want to take the time to help newbies, I'm
> > sorry, I'm very much offended, I'm not offended because I've done a great
> > deal for you but attitudes like yours make other people who arelatively
> > new to Linux look like winers who make excuses and such.
> > Many members of this list have helped you a great deal since you joined it
> > so the credability of a statement such as the one you made regarding
> > veteran Linuxers not wishing to help newbies is zero in my opinion.
> > Further to this thread and my statements about the helpfulness of members
> > of this list may I point that my saved messages folder is 80% messages
> > from this list even though I subscribe to other mailing lists devoted to
> > other topics asside from Linux, this is because I tend to file messages
> > containg command infoand more so I can refer to them later.
> > Lastly, you may increase your probability of success if you concentrated
> > more on how things are done in Linux instead of comparing pieces of advice
> > given by users to what you already know, that being Windows, and complaing
> > ing less. Expend some of the energy you use comparing things unnecessarily
> > toward more positive things and more useful tasks like playing around and
> > seeing what happens under Linux.
> > As a newbie you probably won't break anything that can't be fixed or
> > anything that other newbies before you or I hasn't broken.
> > Folks these are just my opinions and I hope I've not offended anyone in
> > expressing them as that isn't my intent.
> > Regards to all, Ed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Doug Lawlor]

On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 05:23:43AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> See? That's why there aren't too many Linux users.
> You think all new Linux users  know at least Unix.
I have to say that this list has helped me greatly get going with Linux
after being away from a unix box for a number of years.  When I used
Unix before it was only with the most basic of commands, 'ls', 'cd', 
''cp', pwd', and last but certainly not least 'man'.  I would connect to
the system using 'kermit' over a dialup modem on my old Toshiba laptop.
Those were the days.  

Doug



-- 
Doug Lawlor <dlawlor@roadrunner.nf.net>

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Try:

blinux-newbie-request@braille.uwo.ca

Ask there.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

I mean alt+f2, so, without the control key.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


Nothing happens if you press just Ctrl or just Alt. What makes
you think it would? Nobody said that.



On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> I can't read the screen to see what is happening so please tell what
happen
> when pressing only the alt key.
>
> I tried it this way, with no results.
> I will try it with control.
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 7:41 AM
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
>
>
> No, Greg, leave the Ctrl key in. Read the rest of my note to
> understand why. You'll thank me after you get Gnopernicus.
>
> On Sun, 19 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
> > This is correct, however, drop the ctrl key.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 11:43:49PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > >
> > > > Q: How to become root in another console?
> > >
> > > Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> > > function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> > > what function keys are, right?
> > >
> > > Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> > > logged in and login as root.
> > >
> > > Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> > > to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> > > seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> > > telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> > > talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> > >
> > > If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> > > you use for your username, type:
> > >
> > > su -
> > >
> > > and provide the root password.
> > >
> > > Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> > > from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> > > it?
> > > > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to
> find
> > > > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> > > >
> > > In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> > > open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> > > Windows.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Thank you for su command. I never heard about it.

I've tried alt+f2, then typing emacspeak, but nothing happend. I will try
with Control+alt+f2, and I hope it will work.

Thanks./
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Q: How to become root in another console?

Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
what function keys are, right?

Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
logged in and login as root.

Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.

If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
you use for your username, type:

su -

and provide the root password.

Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
it?
> Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to find
> out the PID of the process I should kill.
>
In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
Windows.


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

No, no, no. You have to login on each console.

Until you've logged in on a particular console, you have no
command prompt for commands like 'emacs.'

One more time ...

You have to login for each console that you open. It's not like
Windows, remember?

Do you know how to tell without speech whether or not you're at a
command line prompt? If you press back space and the speaker
beeps, you're there. If not, you aren't.

Of course, if you've typed something on the command line, you'll
have to press back space that many times to erase what you've
typed first. But, once you've erased the command line, you will
get a beep from the speaker when you press backspace.

You will not get a beep if you press backspace at the login
prompt.

So, login when you change consoles. Then, press backspace and
listen for the beep. If you have it, you succeeded logging in. If
you don't, something didn't go correctly.

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Thank you for su command. I never heard about it.
> 
> I've tried alt+f2, then typing emacspeak, but nothing happend. I will try
> with Control+alt+f2, and I hope it will work.
> 
> Thanks./
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> 
> 
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> 
> > Q: How to become root in another console?
> 
> Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> what function keys are, right?
> 
> Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> logged in and login as root.
> 
> Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> 
> If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> you use for your username, type:
> 
> su -
> 
> and provide the root password.
> 
> Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> it?
> > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to find
> > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> >
> In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> Windows.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Thank you for this tip regarding backspace. I've seen it on another list
from you and I've remembered it, but I didn't know that I should login on
each console.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


No, no, no. You have to login on each console.

Until you've logged in on a particular console, you have no
command prompt for commands like 'emacs.'

One more time ...

You have to login for each console that you open. It's not like
Windows, remember?

Do you know how to tell without speech whether or not you're at a
command line prompt? If you press back space and the speaker
beeps, you're there. If not, you aren't.

Of course, if you've typed something on the command line, you'll
have to press back space that many times to erase what you've
typed first. But, once you've erased the command line, you will
get a beep from the speaker when you press backspace.

You will not get a beep if you press backspace at the login
prompt.

So, login when you change consoles. Then, press backspace and
listen for the beep. If you have it, you succeeded logging in. If
you don't, something didn't go correctly.

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Thank you for su command. I never heard about it.
>
> I've tried alt+f2, then typing emacspeak, but nothing happend. I will try
> with Control+alt+f2, and I hope it will work.
>
> Thanks./
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
>
>
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> > Q: How to become root in another console?
>
> Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> what function keys are, right?
>
> Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> logged in and login as root.
>
> Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
>
> If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> you use for your username, type:
>
> su -
>
> and provide the root password.
>
> Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> it?
> > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to
find
> > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> >
> In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> Windows.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Toby Fisher]

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

<snip>

> Do you know how to tell without speech whether or not you're at a
> command line prompt? If you press back space and the speaker
> beeps, you're there. If not, you aren't.

Hmmm, this is true, but once again, this may not work in a telnet session
if your terminal isn't set right, quite likely under Winblows, but at
least there you'll have your Winblows speech to help you.

 > Of course, if you've typed something on the command line,
you'll > have to press back space that many times to erase what you've
> typed first. But, once you've erased the command line, you will
> get a beep from the speaker when you press backspace.
Again, if the telnet client's terminal is broken, this functionality could
also be absent.

<snip>

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Janina Sajka]

Toby:

My understanding is that he has two machines. Sometimes he uses
his Linux box natively. I don't believe it's all telnet sessions.

On Wed, 22 May 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:

> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > Do you know how to tell without speech whether or not you're at a
> > command line prompt? If you press back space and the speaker
> > beeps, you're there. If not, you aren't.
> 
> Hmmm, this is true, but once again, this may not work in a telnet session
> if your terminal isn't set right, quite likely under Winblows, but at
> least there you'll have your Winblows speech to help you.
> 
>  > Of course, if you've typed something on the command line,
> you'll > have to press back space that many times to erase what you've
> > typed first. But, once you've erased the command line, you will
> > get a beep from the speaker when you press backspace.
> Again, if the telnet client's terminal is broken, this functionality could
> also be absent.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Toby Fisher]

On Wed, 22 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> My understanding is that he has two machines. Sometimes he uses
> his Linux box natively. I don't believe it's all telnet sessions.

Yeah, I think that's right.  I just thought it prudent to alert Octavian
of these possible problems before they become problems.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Kerry Hoath]

Be fare toby,
bash accepts both del and control-h as backspace char,
other applications do not. The vast majority of terminal packages
do in fact send ^H or ^? when backspace is hit.
The usual default is also an audible bell. I don't know why screen
defaults to a visual one but the first thing I do when
running anew screen installation is put vbell off
and startup_message off in ~/screenrc
If he is running jfw and eloquence and his so und card doesn't mix;
(This is a new feature in wdm drivers or special drivers for win95 and
is not supported with all cards) he won't hear the bell if
eloquence talks at the same time.
On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 05:44:58PM +0100, Toby Fisher wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > Do you know how to tell without speech whether or not you're at a
> > command line prompt? If you press back space and the speaker
> > beeps, you're there. If not, you aren't.
> 
> Hmmm, this is true, but once again, this may not work in a telnet session
> if your terminal isn't set right, quite likely under Winblows, but at
> least there you'll have your Winblows speech to help you.
> 
>  > Of course, if you've typed something on the command line,
> you'll > have to press back space that many times to erase what you've
> > typed first. But, once you've erased the command line, you will
> > get a beep from the speaker when you press backspace.
> Again, if the telnet client's terminal is broken, this functionality could
> also be absent.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> -- 
> Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
> Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
> ICQ: #61744808
>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Toby Fisher]

On Thu, 23 May 2002, Kerry Hoath wrote:

> Be fare toby,
> bash accepts both del and control-h as backspace char,
> other applications do not. The vast majority of terminal packages
> do in fact send ^H or ^? when backspace is hit.
> The usual default is also an audible bell. I don't know why screen
> defaults to a visual one but the first thing I do when
> running anew screen installation is put vbell off
> and startup_message off in ~/screenrc
> If he is running jfw and eloquence and his so und card doesn't mix;
> (This is a new feature in wdm drivers or special drivers for win95 and
> is not supported with all cards) he won't hear the bell if
> eloquence talks at the same time.

Kerry,

I was talking from personal experience, this has happened to me.  Ok, the
versions of Linux I was using at the time were not the newest, but I think
it's important to make someone aware of such possible pitfalls.  If they
are not an issue, then great, that's fine, but it's happened to me before
and it took some sorting out, especially as I was a Linux newbie at the
time.  I think I actually got around it by hitting -c-h myself, which
strangely did work under certain circumstances, even when del or backspace
did not.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Gregory Nowak]

When you try alt+f2 right after booting up, you need to login first, then type whatever command you want.
Greg


On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 07:49:00AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> Thank you for su command. I never heard about it.
> 
> I've tried alt+f2, then typing emacspeak, but nothing happend. I will try
> with Control+alt+f2, and I hope it will work.
> 
> Thanks./
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
> 
> 
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> 
> > Q: How to become root in another console?
> 
> Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> what function keys are, right?
> 
> Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> logged in and login as root.
> 
> Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
> 
> If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> you use for your username, type:
> 
> su -
> 
> and provide the root password.
> 
> Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> it?
> > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to find
> > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> >
> In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> Windows.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Thank you. Another list member just enlightened me about that. I didn't know
about that.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


When you try alt+f2 right after booting up, you need to login first, then
type whatever command you want.
Greg


On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 07:49:00AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> Thank you for su command. I never heard about it.
>
> I've tried alt+f2, then typing emacspeak, but nothing happend. I will try
> with Control+alt+f2, and I hope it will work.
>
> Thanks./
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!
>
>
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> > Q: How to become root in another console?
>
> Use Ctrl-Alt-FX (where X is a number 1 to 6) meaning use the
> function keys on the top row of the qwerty keyboard. You know
> what function keys are, right?
>
> Use this key cvombination to go to a console where you are not
> logged in and login as root.
>
> Alternatively, I believe you wrote the other day that you telnet
> to your linux machine from your Windows machine? Well, if emacs
> seems to go bad on you, go to your Windows machine and open a
> telnet session to your Linux machine. Just because emacs isn't
> talking doesn't mean your machine is dead.
>
> If you're already logged in via telnet from Windows as whatever
> you use for your username, type:
>
> su -
>
> and provide the root password.
>
> Actually, there's no reason not to open several telnet sessions
> from your Windows machine. Your Windows is capable of that, isn't
> it?
> > Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not speaking? I want to
find
> > out the PID of the process I should kill.
> >
> In a different console or a different telnet session. You can
> open more than one at a time, you know. This is Linux, not
> Windows.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Gregory Nowak]

On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 05:53:14AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> Q: How to become root in another console?

I think Janina should have said "login" instead of "become".
Greg

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Excuse my simple language but it is needed here.

Teddy, do you understand the word "console"?  Do you know what it
means when we talk about Linux? 

You run Emacspeak in one console, your other consoles are free.  You
can run six separate consoles at one time.  You can use six consoles
at the same time. 

Hook up that decTalk internal, install speakup and Emacspeak and use
both. 

Ann P.
>>>>> "Octavian" == Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@home.ro> writes:

    Octavian> Hi, Thank you, a few questions: 1.) Become root in
    Octavian> another console and kill the application

    Octavian> Q: How to become root in another console?

    Octavian> that is giving you trouble. In Octavian's example the
    Octavian> application is emacs, so here's the appropriate command
    Octavian> for root to give in another console:

    Octavian> killall emacs

    Octavian> 2.) If all else fails, kill the console session as root
    Octavian> from another console. get a listing of everything
    Octavian> running in the console where you got stuck. If that
    Octavian> console is tty1, for example, you would do:

    Octavian> ps -t tty1

    Octavian> This will print out a list of all the running processes
    Octavian> in tty1.  Find the one that says "bash" on the right
    Octavian> hand side of the line, and note the process id, called
    Octavian> pid, on the left. Then kill that pid as follows:

    Octavian> kill -9 pid

    Octavian> where pid is the process id you identified for bash
    Octavian> above.

    Octavian> Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not
    Octavian> speaking? I want to find out the PID of the process I
    Octavian> should kill.

    Octavian> There are more elegant ways to get out of trouble, but
    Octavian> these two will keep you learning and keep you from
    Octavian> wasting time rebooting.

    Octavian> To learn more about these things look at the man pages
    Octavian> for killall, kill, pidof, and ps.

    Octavian> Thanks.

    Octavian> --

    Octavian> Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and
    Octavian> Development Governmental Relations Group American
    Octavian> Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

    Octavian> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

    Octavian> Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum
    Octavian> (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org

    Octavian>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint
    Octavian> attachments.  See
    Octavian> http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html




    Octavian> _______________________________________________ Speakup
    Octavian> mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
    Octavian> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup



    Octavian> _______________________________________________ Speakup
    Octavian> mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
    Octavian> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Octavian Rasnita]

Thanks for advice. I would like to do that but the DecTalk PC 1 internal
sinthesizer is not supported by Speakup.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Get Out Of Jail Free!


Hi all,

Excuse my simple language but it is needed here.

Teddy, do you understand the word "console"?  Do you know what it
means when we talk about Linux?

You run Emacspeak in one console, your other consoles are free.  You
can run six separate consoles at one time.  You can use six consoles
at the same time.

Hook up that decTalk internal, install speakup and Emacspeak and use
both.

Ann P.
>>>>> "Octavian" == Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@home.ro> writes:

    Octavian> Hi, Thank you, a few questions: 1.) Become root in
    Octavian> another console and kill the application

    Octavian> Q: How to become root in another console?

    Octavian> that is giving you trouble. In Octavian's example the
    Octavian> application is emacs, so here's the appropriate command
    Octavian> for root to give in another console:

    Octavian> killall emacs

    Octavian> 2.) If all else fails, kill the console session as root
    Octavian> from another console. get a listing of everything
    Octavian> running in the console where you got stuck. If that
    Octavian> console is tty1, for example, you would do:

    Octavian> ps -t tty1

    Octavian> This will print out a list of all the running processes
    Octavian> in tty1.  Find the one that says "bash" on the right
    Octavian> hand side of the line, and note the process id, called
    Octavian> pid, on the left. Then kill that pid as follows:

    Octavian> kill -9 pid

    Octavian> where pid is the process id you identified for bash
    Octavian> above.

    Octavian> Q: How can I read the screen if emacspeak is not
    Octavian> speaking? I want to find out the PID of the process I
    Octavian> should kill.

    Octavian> There are more elegant ways to get out of trouble, but
    Octavian> these two will keep you learning and keep you from
    Octavian> wasting time rebooting.

    Octavian> To learn more about these things look at the man pages
    Octavian> for killall, kill, pidof, and ps.

    Octavian> Thanks.

    Octavian> --

    Octavian> Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and
    Octavian> Development Governmental Relations Group American
    Octavian> Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

    Octavian> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

    Octavian> Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum
    Octavian> (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org

    Octavian>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint
    Octavian> attachments.  See
    Octavian> http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html




    Octavian> _______________________________________________ Speakup
    Octavian> mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
    Octavian> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup



    Octavian> _______________________________________________ Speakup
    Octavian> mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
    Octavian> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

--
Ann K. Parsons
email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Get Out Of Jail Free!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Janina, oh, you wonderful lady!  thanks!  I'm going to save this msg!  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT