possible sollution

possible sollution

[Igor Gueths]

Hi all. I know I posted and suggested to take this off-list, but I thought I would get it out there anyway. What we ultimately need is a utility that would create bin images, because you want to preserve disk integrity. Teledisk doesn't work, because it seems to just duplicate the files, and it won't duplicate the bad sectors. It terminates with a data crc error. Sollution: Create bin image of entire auth disk, use a utlity similar to rawrite under Linux to write the disk. My e-mail address is igueths@attbi.com if anyone wants to write me privately on this. 

Re: possible sollution

[Erik Heil]

Hey Igor,
What you may want to look at is just doing a dump of the disk, byte by byte.
What I'm thinking of is a utility that uses /dev/fd0 or another mount point
as input and then will write the results to standard output.  Sort of like a
bin or raw image in other words.  Such a utility would not be hard at all to
construct.  Problem is, I'll have to find the time to write it.  Anyone
wanna work on this project?  Ether e-mail Igor igueths@attbi.com or me at
eheil@rcn.com.
--Erik

----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: possible sollution


Hi all. I know I posted and suggested to take this off-list, but I thought I
would get it out there anyway. What we ultimately need is a utility that
would create bin images, because you want to preserve disk integrity.
Teledisk doesn't work, because it seems to just duplicate the files, and it
won't duplicate the bad sectors. It terminates with a data crc error.
Sollution: Create bin image of entire auth disk, use a utlity similar to
rawrite under Linux to write the disk. My e-mail address is
igueths@attbi.com if anyone wants to write me privately on this.


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Cecil H. Whitley]

*snip*

> Hey Igor,
> What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*

Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all, there is
a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the line
of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.

Regards,

Cecil Whitley

Re: possible sollution

[Gregory Nowak]

I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of course, I don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2 countries.
Greg


On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> *snip*
> 
> > Hey Igor,
> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> 
> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all, there is
> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the line
> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Cecil Whitley
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Cecil H. Whitley]

Hi Greg,
It is not my intent to impose the laws of the U.S. upon Canada (or anywhere
else for that matter), I was merely providing my opinion and the reasons
behind it.  I tried to be polite and not infrindge upon anyone elses right
to free speech (which by the way is also guarenteed by the U.S.
constitution).  As noted in my original post, the impact (if any) is and
would be restricted to those members of the list within the borders of the
U.S.  I assumed I was clear on that point because I am quite aware of where
the "home" of the list is.

Cecil

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of course, I
don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2 countries.
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > *snip*
> >
> > > Hey Igor,
> > > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> >
> > Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
there is
> > a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the
line
> > of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
> > list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
> > occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cecil Whitley
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Octavian Rasnita]

I've used Teledisk with success for more times for creating and restoring an
authorization floppy disk for Jaws.
There are more users who did that. Ask on blindy@yahoogroups.com.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: possible sollution


Hi all. I know I posted and suggested to take this off-list, but I thought I
would get it out there anyway. What we ultimately need is a utility that
would create bin images, because you want to preserve disk integrity.
Teledisk doesn't work, because it seems to just duplicate the files, and it
won't duplicate the bad sectors. It terminates with a data crc error.
Sollution: Create bin image of entire auth disk, use a utlity similar to
rawrite under Linux to write the disk. My e-mail address is
igueths@attbi.com if anyone wants to write me privately on this.


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Octavian Rasnita]

Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
To speak, not to crack.

Thank you for information.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of course, I
don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2 countries.
Greg


On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> *snip*
>
> > Hey Igor,
> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
>
> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all, there
is
> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the
line
> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cecil Whitley
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[brian Moore]

our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
access.

I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
might attract some unwanted attention.

Brian.


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:

>Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
>To speak, not to crack.
>
>Thank you for information.
>Teddy,
>orasnita@home.ro
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
>To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
>Subject: Re: possible sollution
>
>
>I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
course, I
>don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
countries.
>Greg
>
>
>On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
>> *snip*
>>
>> > Hey Igor,
>> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
>>
>> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
there
>is
>> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
the
>line
>> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
this
>> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
could
>> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Cecil Whitley
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Cecil H. Whitley]

Hi,
A group of researchers here accepted a public challenge to "crack" the cgmi
watermarking.  They were threatened with legal action when they went to
present their research at a convention.  Eventually they got to present
their research, but it was a painfull process.  Details can be found at
www.eff.org.

Given the "homelands security act", the dmca and the reluctance of the court
to intervene, i'm not sure that you can't get in trouble here for "just
talking" about something anymore.  That, in and of itself is a sad
commentary on the state of affairs.

Regards,

Cecil
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
> respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
> bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
> which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
> access.
>
> I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
> might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
> might attract some unwanted attention.
>
> Brian.
>
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> >To speak, not to crack.
> >
> >Thank you for information.
> >Teddy,
> >orasnita@home.ro
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> >Subject: Re: possible sollution
> >
> >
> >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
> course, I
> >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
> countries.
> >Greg
> >
> >
> >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> >> *snip*
> >>
> >> > Hey Igor,
> >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> >>
> >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
> there
> >is
> >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
> the
> >line
> >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
> this
> >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
> could
> >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Cecil Whitley
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Darrell Shandrow]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1240 bytes --]

Hi Cecil,

Actually, here in the states, I believe our freedom of speech rights would 
hold up to a court of law on this regard.  Notice, I say freedom of speech, 
not freedom of actions.  So, we can talk about it as long as we don't 
actually do it or encourage anyone...

Regards.

At 08:30 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>*snip*
>
> > Hey Igor,
> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
>
>Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all, there is
>a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the line
>of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
>list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
>occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
>
>Regards,
>
>Cecil Whitley
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002

Best regards,
Darrell Shandrow
Access technology consulting / network and UNIX         systems administration.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 167 bytes --]


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Re: possible sollution

[Janina Sajka]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1755 bytes --]

Darrel:

What is so very chilling about the DMCA is that you're not
supposed to talk about it either.
On Fri, 17 May 2002, Darrell
Shandrow wrote:

> Hi Cecil,
> 
> Actually, here in the states, I believe our freedom of speech rights would 
> hold up to a court of law on this regard.  Notice, I say freedom of speech, 
> not freedom of actions.  So, we can talk about it as long as we don't 
> actually do it or encourage anyone...
> 
> Regards.
> 
> At 08:30 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >*snip*
> >
> > > Hey Igor,
> > > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> >
> >Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all, there is
> >a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the line
> >of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
> >list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
> >occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Cecil Whitley
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >---
> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002
> 
> Best regards,
> Darrell Shandrow
> Access technology consulting / network and UNIX         systems administration.
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

[-- Attachment #2: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 167 bytes --]


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002

Re: possible sollution

[Igor Gueths]

Hey Erik. Isn't this what dd does? You also need to image all the bad sectors as well, this would mean stripping out any crc checking. I've heard of rawfdcmd, but couldn't find it. Anyone know where I can get the sources or compiled binaries for rawfdcmd? 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Erik Heil <eheil@rcn.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> Hey Igor,
> What you may want to look at is just doing a dump of the disk, byte by byte.
> What I'm thinking of is a utility that uses /dev/fd0 or another mount point
> as input and then will write the results to standard output.  Sort of like a
> bin or raw image in other words.  Such a utility would not be hard at all to
> construct.  Problem is, I'll have to find the time to write it.  Anyone
> wanna work on this project?  Ether e-mail Igor igueths@attbi.com or me at
> eheil@rcn.com.
> --Erik
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 3:34 PM
> Subject: possible sollution
> 
> 
> Hi all. I know I posted and suggested to take this off-list, but I thought I
> would get it out there anyway. What we ultimately need is a utility that
> would create bin images, because you want to preserve disk integrity.
> Teledisk doesn't work, because it seems to just duplicate the files, and it
> won't duplicate the bad sectors. It terminates with a data crc error.
> Sollution: Create bin image of entire auth disk, use a utlity similar to
> rawrite under Linux to write the disk. My e-mail address is
> igueths@attbi.com if anyone wants to write me privately on this.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Teddy. I did use teledisk to try to read the disk, and I got crc data errors. I assume this is because of the bad sectors that are purposely on the disk? Is there any way to make teledisk skip or otherwise image thebad sectors as well? Thanks. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@home.ro>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> I've used Teledisk with success for more times for creating and restoring an
> authorization floppy disk for Jaws.
> There are more users who did that. Ask on blindy@yahoogroups.com.
> 
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 10:34 PM
> Subject: possible sollution
> 
> 
> Hi all. I know I posted and suggested to take this off-list, but I thought I
> would get it out there anyway. What we ultimately need is a utility that
> would create bin images, because you want to preserve disk integrity.
> Teledisk doesn't work, because it seems to just duplicate the files, and it
> won't duplicate the bad sectors. It terminates with a data crc error.
> Sollution: Create bin image of entire auth disk, use a utlity similar to
> rawrite under Linux to write the disk. My e-mail address is
> igueths@attbi.com if anyone wants to write me privately on this.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Igor Gueths]

You know what I say? F$$$$ the DMCA! Don't even get me started on this, I'd hate to rant about my hatred about it to this list.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> Darrel:
> 
> What is so very chilling about the DMCA is that you're not
> supposed to talk about it either.
> On Fri, 17 May 2002, Darrell
> Shandrow wrote:
> 
> > Hi Cecil,
> > 
> > Actually, here in the states, I believe our freedom of speech rights would 
> > hold up to a court of law on this regard.  Notice, I say freedom of speech, 
> > not freedom of actions.  So, we can talk about it as long as we don't 
> > actually do it or encourage anyone...
> > 
> > Regards.
> > 
> > At 08:30 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> > 
> > >*snip*
> > >
> > > > Hey Igor,
> > > > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> > >
> > >Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all, there is
> > >a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the line
> > >of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
> > >list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
> > >occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Cecil Whitley
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Speakup mailing list
> > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >---
> > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > >Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Darrell Shandrow
> > Access technology consulting / network and UNIX         systems administration.
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002
> 

Re: possible sollution

[Janina Sajka]

Do a Google search for rawfd.


On Sat, 18 May 2002, Igor Gueths wrote:

> Hey Erik. Isn't this what dd does? You also need to image all the bad sectors as well, this would mean stripping out any crc checking. I've heard of rawfdcmd, but couldn't find it. Anyone know where I can get the sources or compiled binaries for rawfdcmd? 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Erik Heil <eheil@rcn.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 6:27 PM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
> 
> 
> > Hey Igor,
> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump of the disk, byte by byte.
> > What I'm thinking of is a utility that uses /dev/fd0 or another mount point
> > as input and then will write the results to standard output.  Sort of like a
> > bin or raw image in other words.  Such a utility would not be hard at all to
> > construct.  Problem is, I'll have to find the time to write it.  Anyone
> > wanna work on this project?  Ether e-mail Igor igueths@attbi.com or me at
> > eheil@rcn.com.
> > --Erik
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 3:34 PM
> > Subject: possible sollution
> > 
> > 
> > Hi all. I know I posted and suggested to take this off-list, but I thought I
> > would get it out there anyway. What we ultimately need is a utility that
> > would create bin images, because you want to preserve disk integrity.
> > Teledisk doesn't work, because it seems to just duplicate the files, and it
> > won't duplicate the bad sectors. It terminates with a data crc error.
> > Sollution: Create bin image of entire auth disk, use a utlity similar to
> > rawrite under Linux to write the disk. My e-mail address is
> > igueths@attbi.com if anyone wants to write me privately on this.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: possible sollution

[Igor Gueths]

Thanks Janina, I thought it was called rawfdcmd. My bad.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> Do a Google search for rawfd.
> 
> 
> On Sat, 18 May 2002, Igor Gueths wrote:
> 
> > Hey Erik. Isn't this what dd does? You also need to image all the bad sectors as well, this would mean stripping out any crc checking. I've heard of rawfdcmd, but couldn't find it. Anyone know where I can get the sources or compiled binaries for rawfdcmd? 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Erik Heil <eheil@rcn.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 6:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > 
> > 
> > > Hey Igor,
> > > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump of the disk, byte by byte.
> > > What I'm thinking of is a utility that uses /dev/fd0 or another mount point
> > > as input and then will write the results to standard output.  Sort of like a
> > > bin or raw image in other words.  Such a utility would not be hard at all to
> > > construct.  Problem is, I'll have to find the time to write it.  Anyone
> > > wanna work on this project?  Ether e-mail Igor igueths@attbi.com or me at
> > > eheil@rcn.com.
> > > --Erik
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 3:34 PM
> > > Subject: possible sollution
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi all. I know I posted and suggested to take this off-list, but I thought I
> > > would get it out there anyway. What we ultimately need is a utility that
> > > would create bin images, because you want to preserve disk integrity.
> > > Teledisk doesn't work, because it seems to just duplicate the files, and it
> > > won't duplicate the bad sectors. It terminates with a data crc error.
> > > Sollution: Create bin image of entire auth disk, use a utlity similar to
> > > rawrite under Linux to write the disk. My e-mail address is
> > > igueths@attbi.com if anyone wants to write me privately on this.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Janina Sajka]

It's very old. Be careful.

On Sat, 18 May 2002, Igor Gueths wrote:

> Thanks Janina, I thought it was called rawfdcmd. My bad.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:05 PM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
> 
> 
> > Do a Google search for rawfd.
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, 18 May 2002, Igor Gueths wrote:
> > 
> > > Hey Erik. Isn't this what dd does? You also need to image all the bad sectors as well, this would mean stripping out any crc checking. I've heard of rawfdcmd, but couldn't find it. Anyone know where I can get the sources or compiled binaries for rawfdcmd? 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: Erik Heil <eheil@rcn.com>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 6:27 PM
> > > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Hey Igor,
> > > > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump of the disk, byte by byte.
> > > > What I'm thinking of is a utility that uses /dev/fd0 or another mount point
> > > > as input and then will write the results to standard output.  Sort of like a
> > > > bin or raw image in other words.  Such a utility would not be hard at all to
> > > > construct.  Problem is, I'll have to find the time to write it.  Anyone
> > > > wanna work on this project?  Ether e-mail Igor igueths@attbi.com or me at
> > > > eheil@rcn.com.
> > > > --Erik
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 3:34 PM
> > > > Subject: possible sollution
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Hi all. I know I posted and suggested to take this off-list, but I thought I
> > > > would get it out there anyway. What we ultimately need is a utility that
> > > > would create bin images, because you want to preserve disk integrity.
> > > > Teledisk doesn't work, because it seems to just duplicate the files, and it
> > > > won't duplicate the bad sectors. It terminates with a data crc error.
> > > > Sollution: Create bin image of entire auth disk, use a utlity similar to
> > > > rawrite under Linux to write the disk. My e-mail address is
> > > > igueths@attbi.com if anyone wants to write me privately on this.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: possible sollution

[Octavian Rasnita]

Thank you. So the people don't want the others attention. I think that's the
problem.
In some countries, it is  something very bad to crack or to use pirated
software, but in others, the computer users have no other solution.
So if I can't afford to buy something, than the company that produces that
software don't lose anything anyway, because if I don't steal it, I won't
use it. That's all.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
access.

I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
might attract some unwanted attention.

Brian.


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:

>Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
>To speak, not to crack.
>
>Thank you for information.
>Teddy,
>orasnita@home.ro
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
>To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
>Subject: Re: possible sollution
>
>
>I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
course, I
>don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
countries.
>Greg
>
>
>On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
>> *snip*
>>
>> > Hey Igor,
>> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
>>
>> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
there
>is
>> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
the
>line
>> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
this
>> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
could
>> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Cecil Whitley
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Octavian Rasnita]

I guess you're right, but I was kicked off from 3 lists for the blind
because I've tried to help other members telling them how to create a copy
of their Jaws authorization floppy.
They didn't want to crack it. They wanted only to create a copy, because a
copy from Freedom Scientific costs.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


Hi,
A group of researchers here accepted a public challenge to "crack" the cgmi
watermarking.  They were threatened with legal action when they went to
present their research at a convention.  Eventually they got to present
their research, but it was a painfull process.  Details can be found at
www.eff.org.

Given the "homelands security act", the dmca and the reluctance of the court
to intervene, i'm not sure that you can't get in trouble here for "just
talking" about something anymore.  That, in and of itself is a sad
commentary on the state of affairs.

Regards,

Cecil
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
> respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
> bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
> which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
> access.
>
> I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
> might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
> might attract some unwanted attention.
>
> Brian.
>
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> >To speak, not to crack.
> >
> >Thank you for information.
> >Teddy,
> >orasnita@home.ro
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> >Subject: Re: possible sollution
> >
> >
> >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
> course, I
> >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
> countries.
> >Greg
> >
> >
> >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> >> *snip*
> >>
> >> > Hey Igor,
> >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> >>
> >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
> there
> >is
> >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
> the
> >line
> >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
> this
> >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
> could
> >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Cecil Whitley
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Octavian Rasnita]

What does it mean to encourage?
Can I  make an online course for those who want learning how to crack
software?
They don't want to crack, and they won't use a pirated version, but they
want to learn only.
Is it illegal to learn?

It was just an example. Unfortunately I don't know so many things about
software development to be able  to crack something which is a little
harder...
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


Hi Cecil,

Actually, here in the states, I believe our freedom of speech rights would
hold up to a court of law on this regard.  Notice, I say freedom of speech,
not freedom of actions.  So, we can talk about it as long as we don't
actually do it or encourage anyone...

Regards.

At 08:30 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>*snip*
>
> > Hey Igor,
> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
>
>Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all, there
is
>a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the line
>of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
>list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
>occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
>
>Regards,
>
>Cecil Whitley
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002

Best regards,
Darrell Shandrow
Access technology consulting / network and UNIX         systems
administration.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002

Re: possible sollution

[Octavian Rasnita]

Hi,

First, what authorization floppy do you have?
Teledisk can create images only of SQCPS authorization  floppies, not
Everlock ones.
If your authorization  creates a folder named JFW.cps, then you have an
SQCPS authorization. It is the newer one.
Everlock is not used by Jaws anymore (for the newer versions).

After you start Teledisk, choose copy floppy to file,  press enter, then in
the next screens, choose to copy both sides, normal compression.
Make sure it is not selected to copy DOS mode.

There is a configuration program for Teledisk. Have you tried it?
It is used for some floppy disk drives that are not compatible by default
with Teledisk.
And, do you have the version 2.23? I think it is the last.

If it doesn't work, you may need to try on another computer.
Good luck!
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


Hi Teddy. I did use teledisk to try to read the disk, and I got crc data
errors. I assume this is because of the bad sectors that are purposely on
the disk? Is there any way to make teledisk skip or otherwise image thebad
sectors as well? Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@home.ro>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> I've used Teledisk with success for more times for creating and restoring
an
> authorization floppy disk for Jaws.
> There are more users who did that. Ask on blindy@yahoogroups.com.
>
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 10:34 PM
> Subject: possible sollution
>
>
> Hi all. I know I posted and suggested to take this off-list, but I thought
I
> would get it out there anyway. What we ultimately need is a utility that
> would create bin images, because you want to preserve disk integrity.
> Teledisk doesn't work, because it seems to just duplicate the files, and
it
> won't duplicate the bad sectors. It terminates with a data crc error.
> Sollution: Create bin image of entire auth disk, use a utlity similar to
> rawrite under Linux to write the disk. My e-mail address is
> igueths@attbi.com if anyone wants to write me privately on this.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Janina Sajka]

This is ridiculous. What do you mean you don't have another
"solution?" You have Linux, right? Why would you even want to go
further? Why would you bother to waste time compromising yourself
over some technology that doesn't even care about you? What kind
of a masochist are you, anyway? Stand up for yourself, and let
that other stuff go. You don't need it.

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Thank you. So the people don't want the others attention. I think that's the
> problem.
> In some countries, it is  something very bad to crack or to use pirated
> software, but in others, the computer users have no other solution.
> So if I can't afford to buy something, than the company that produces that
> software don't lose anything anyway, because if I don't steal it, I won't
> use it. That's all.
> 
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:58 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
> 
> 
> our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
> respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
> bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
> which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
> access.
> 
> I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
> might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
> might attract some unwanted attention.
> 
> Brian.
> 
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> 
> >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> >To speak, not to crack.
> >
> >Thank you for information.
> >Teddy,
> >orasnita@home.ro
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> >Subject: Re: possible sollution
> >
> >
> >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
> course, I
> >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
> countries.
> >Greg
> >
> >
> >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> >> *snip*
> >>
> >> > Hey Igor,
> >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> >>
> >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
> there
> >is
> >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
> the
> >line
> >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
> this
> >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
> could
> >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Cecil Whitley
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: possible sollution

[Octavian Rasnita]

Yes I thought the same but I've discovered that  I can't install Linux by
myself, without sighted help, especially if I don't know  too many things
about Linux.
In Windows, even  somebody don't know too many things, they could press the
"next" button and the system will be installed.
A friend installed me Red Hat, and there were some errors when trying to
install it. He solved the problem, but he also read me those errors and they
were criptical for me.

What I don't like under Linux is that there is no help for newbies.
The people that know very much don't want to lose their times to teach
others.
They simply point to a web site, and that's all.
Well, I am not online all the time because I am on dial up.
The other manuals are only text format, and I should read a lot just to  get
the information I want.

I know, linux is very easy to use if you stay and read manuals for a few
months, but it is not my style of learning.

I like the trial and fail by example way of learning.

This is not very easy under Linux because I don't see any error message
telling me what's wrong.

I can see "segmentation fault" and I don't know what can I do to solve it...
It is the same with the error messages from the log files.
They tell more than the error messages from under Windows, I think, but I
should learn by manual and it is not my style.

I've tried learning from some lists, and almost all the help was "go to
http:// ....
I think you've got the idea.

Well, I've made some lists on Yahoogroups for the blind and I really try to
help the people telling them step by step how to do some things, but Linux
people don't have the time.

Even that friend that installed me Linux told me that if he sees some stupid
questions on a list, he doesn't answer because he loses his time.
Well, he is right, but if the people who don't know can't find help from the
people who know, then why joining a list?
Just for pointing to a web page?
I know to search with Google and I can find a lot of information about
Linux, but  it will take me a lot of time to find what I could find with a
single question and answer.

I have a lot of books about Linux and Unix but I don't have the time to read
them all.

With my way of learning, I've learned a lot of things for Windows, but is
very hard to follow this way under Linux.

Maybe I should change my way ... If I can.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


This is ridiculous. What do you mean you don't have another
"solution?" You have Linux, right? Why would you even want to go
further? Why would you bother to waste time compromising yourself
over some technology that doesn't even care about you? What kind
of a masochist are you, anyway? Stand up for yourself, and let
that other stuff go. You don't need it.

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Thank you. So the people don't want the others attention. I think that's
the
> problem.
> In some countries, it is  something very bad to crack or to use pirated
> software, but in others, the computer users have no other solution.
> So if I can't afford to buy something, than the company that produces that
> software don't lose anything anyway, because if I don't steal it, I won't
> use it. That's all.
>
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:58 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
>
>
> our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
> respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
> bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
> which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
> access.
>
> I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
> might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
> might attract some unwanted attention.
>
> Brian.
>
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> >To speak, not to crack.
> >
> >Thank you for information.
> >Teddy,
> >orasnita@home.ro
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> >Subject: Re: possible sollution
> >
> >
> >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
> course, I
> >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
> countries.
> >Greg
> >
> >
> >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> >> *snip*
> >>
> >> > Hey Igor,
> >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> >>
> >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
> there
> >is
> >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
> the
> >line
> >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
> this
> >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
> could
> >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Cecil Whitley
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Cecil H. Whitley]

Hi,
I've left your post intact.  Just a couple comments about it.  Prior to
windows xp m.s. did not have a product which would provide speech while it
was installing.  Slackware has an out-of-the-box speech enabled install and
has for a while.  There are list members here whom donate their time doing
the same for redhat.  Apparently that goes back a ways given the number of
releases held on the speakup ftp site.  I can't speak for other list
members, but I try to answer all questions that I can (my knowledge base is
also limited).  In at least one instance I have pointed a user to a "howto",
but that is because of my ignorance on the subject matter and I would prefer
to give accurate information as opposed to being overly helpfull and
exceeding my knowledge base.  Wrong answers do more damage than harm (at
least in my opinion).  Don't get me wrong, i'm not perfect nor is my record.
I do however try to clearly identify areas that are "guesses" as opposed to
"fact".

At least with linux all the documentation is available on-line and in fact,
much of it comes with the distribution.  That's why redhat has a cd
dedicated to documentation.  Linux, like windows is an extremely complex set
of various software packages.  Your mileage may vary depending on the
hardware you have and the choices you make in the installation process.
apropos is a good command to remember as is man and info.

In conclusion, if you want a stable gui environment with optional text mode
that doesn't crash several times a day, buy os/2!  It's easy to setup and
runs like a champ.  It is however a bit dated.

Regards,

Cecil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> Yes I thought the same but I've discovered that  I can't install Linux by
> myself, without sighted help, especially if I don't know  too many things
> about Linux.
> In Windows, even  somebody don't know too many things, they could press
the
> "next" button and the system will be installed.
> A friend installed me Red Hat, and there were some errors when trying to
> install it. He solved the problem, but he also read me those errors and
they
> were criptical for me.
>
> What I don't like under Linux is that there is no help for newbies.
> The people that know very much don't want to lose their times to teach
> others.
> They simply point to a web site, and that's all.
> Well, I am not online all the time because I am on dial up.
> The other manuals are only text format, and I should read a lot just to
get
> the information I want.
>
> I know, linux is very easy to use if you stay and read manuals for a few
> months, but it is not my style of learning.
>
> I like the trial and fail by example way of learning.
>
> This is not very easy under Linux because I don't see any error message
> telling me what's wrong.
>
> I can see "segmentation fault" and I don't know what can I do to solve
it...
> It is the same with the error messages from the log files.
> They tell more than the error messages from under Windows, I think, but I
> should learn by manual and it is not my style.
>
> I've tried learning from some lists, and almost all the help was "go to
> http:// ....
> I think you've got the idea.
>
> Well, I've made some lists on Yahoogroups for the blind and I really try
to
> help the people telling them step by step how to do some things, but Linux
> people don't have the time.
>
> Even that friend that installed me Linux told me that if he sees some
stupid
> questions on a list, he doesn't answer because he loses his time.
> Well, he is right, but if the people who don't know can't find help from
the
> people who know, then why joining a list?
> Just for pointing to a web page?
> I know to search with Google and I can find a lot of information about
> Linux, but  it will take me a lot of time to find what I could find with a
> single question and answer.
>
> I have a lot of books about Linux and Unix but I don't have the time to
read
> them all.
>
> With my way of learning, I've learned a lot of things for Windows, but is
> very hard to follow this way under Linux.
>
> Maybe I should change my way ... If I can.
>
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:56 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
>
>
> This is ridiculous. What do you mean you don't have another
> "solution?" You have Linux, right? Why would you even want to go
> further? Why would you bother to waste time compromising yourself
> over some technology that doesn't even care about you? What kind
> of a masochist are you, anyway? Stand up for yourself, and let
> that other stuff go. You don't need it.
>
> On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> > Thank you. So the people don't want the others attention. I think that's
> the
> > problem.
> > In some countries, it is  something very bad to crack or to use pirated
> > software, but in others, the computer users have no other solution.
> > So if I can't afford to buy something, than the company that produces
that
> > software don't lose anything anyway, because if I don't steal it, I
won't
> > use it. That's all.
> >
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> >
> >
> > our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
> > respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
> > bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
> > which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
> > access.
> >
> > I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
> > might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
> > might attract some unwanted attention.
> >
> > Brian.
> >
> >
> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >
> > On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> >
> > >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> > >To speak, not to crack.
> > >
> > >Thank you for information.
> > >Teddy,
> > >orasnita@home.ro
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> > >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> > >Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > >
> > >
> > >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
> > course, I
> > >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
> > countries.
> > >Greg
> > >
> > >
> > >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > >> *snip*
> > >>
> > >> > Hey Igor,
> > >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> > >>
> > >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
> > there
> > >is
> > >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
> > the
> > >line
> > >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
> > this
> > >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
> > could
> > >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Cecil Whitley
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Speakup mailing list
> > >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Speakup mailing list
> > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Speakup mailing list
> > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 07:14:16AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> This is not very easy under Linux because I don't see any error message
> telling me what's wrong.
> 
> I can see "segmentation fault" and I don't know what can I do to solve it...
> It is the same with the error messages from the log files.

I suppose that when you get an illegal operation error in windblows, you know exactly what it means and what you should do to correct it in the future?
Greg

Re: possible sollution

[Gregory Nowak]

That's something else. I've heard that the screen reader for os/2 is about $800, and it's the only one out there too.
Greg


On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 12:37:17AM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> Hi,
> I've left your post intact.  Just a couple comments about it.  Prior to
> windows xp m.s. did not have a product which would provide speech while it
> was installing.  Slackware has an out-of-the-box speech enabled install and
> has for a while.  There are list members here whom donate their time doing
> the same for redhat.  Apparently that goes back a ways given the number of
> releases held on the speakup ftp site.  I can't speak for other list
> members, but I try to answer all questions that I can (my knowledge base is
> also limited).  In at least one instance I have pointed a user to a "howto",
> but that is because of my ignorance on the subject matter and I would prefer
> to give accurate information as opposed to being overly helpfull and
> exceeding my knowledge base.  Wrong answers do more damage than harm (at
> least in my opinion).  Don't get me wrong, i'm not perfect nor is my record.
> I do however try to clearly identify areas that are "guesses" as opposed to
> "fact".
> 
> At least with linux all the documentation is available on-line and in fact,
> much of it comes with the distribution.  That's why redhat has a cd
> dedicated to documentation.  Linux, like windows is an extremely complex set
> of various software packages.  Your mileage may vary depending on the
> hardware you have and the choices you make in the installation process.
> apropos is a good command to remember as is man and info.
> 
> In conclusion, if you want a stable gui environment with optional text mode
> that doesn't crash several times a day, buy os/2!  It's easy to setup and
> runs like a champ.  It is however a bit dated.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Cecil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:14 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
> 
> 
> > Yes I thought the same but I've discovered that  I can't install Linux by
> > myself, without sighted help, especially if I don't know  too many things
> > about Linux.
> > In Windows, even  somebody don't know too many things, they could press
> the
> > "next" button and the system will be installed.
> > A friend installed me Red Hat, and there were some errors when trying to
> > install it. He solved the problem, but he also read me those errors and
> they
> > were criptical for me.
> >
> > What I don't like under Linux is that there is no help for newbies.
> > The people that know very much don't want to lose their times to teach
> > others.
> > They simply point to a web site, and that's all.
> > Well, I am not online all the time because I am on dial up.
> > The other manuals are only text format, and I should read a lot just to
> get
> > the information I want.
> >
> > I know, linux is very easy to use if you stay and read manuals for a few
> > months, but it is not my style of learning.
> >
> > I like the trial and fail by example way of learning.
> >
> > This is not very easy under Linux because I don't see any error message
> > telling me what's wrong.
> >
> > I can see "segmentation fault" and I don't know what can I do to solve
> it...
> > It is the same with the error messages from the log files.
> > They tell more than the error messages from under Windows, I think, but I
> > should learn by manual and it is not my style.
> >
> > I've tried learning from some lists, and almost all the help was "go to
> > http:// ....
> > I think you've got the idea.
> >
> > Well, I've made some lists on Yahoogroups for the blind and I really try
> to
> > help the people telling them step by step how to do some things, but Linux
> > people don't have the time.
> >
> > Even that friend that installed me Linux told me that if he sees some
> stupid
> > questions on a list, he doesn't answer because he loses his time.
> > Well, he is right, but if the people who don't know can't find help from
> the
> > people who know, then why joining a list?
> > Just for pointing to a web page?
> > I know to search with Google and I can find a lot of information about
> > Linux, but  it will take me a lot of time to find what I could find with a
> > single question and answer.
> >
> > I have a lot of books about Linux and Unix but I don't have the time to
> read
> > them all.
> >
> > With my way of learning, I've learned a lot of things for Windows, but is
> > very hard to follow this way under Linux.
> >
> > Maybe I should change my way ... If I can.
> >
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> >
> >
> > This is ridiculous. What do you mean you don't have another
> > "solution?" You have Linux, right? Why would you even want to go
> > further? Why would you bother to waste time compromising yourself
> > over some technology that doesn't even care about you? What kind
> > of a masochist are you, anyway? Stand up for yourself, and let
> > that other stuff go. You don't need it.
> >
> > On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you. So the people don't want the others attention. I think that's
> > the
> > > problem.
> > > In some countries, it is  something very bad to crack or to use pirated
> > > software, but in others, the computer users have no other solution.
> > > So if I can't afford to buy something, than the company that produces
> that
> > > software don't lose anything anyway, because if I don't steal it, I
> won't
> > > use it. That's all.
> > >
> > > Teddy,
> > > orasnita@home.ro
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:58 AM
> > > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > >
> > >
> > > our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
> > > respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
> > > bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
> > > which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
> > > access.
> > >
> > > I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
> > > might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
> > > might attract some unwanted attention.
> > >
> > > Brian.
> > >
> > >
> > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > >
> > > On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > >
> > > >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> > > >To speak, not to crack.
> > > >
> > > >Thank you for information.
> > > >Teddy,
> > > >orasnita@home.ro
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> > > >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
> > > course, I
> > > >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
> > > countries.
> > > >Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > > >> *snip*
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hey Igor,
> > > >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> > > >>
> > > >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
> > > there
> > > >is
> > > >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
> > > the
> > > >line
> > > >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
> > > this
> > > >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
> > > could
> > > >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Cecil Whitley
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Speakup mailing list
> > > >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Speakup mailing list
> > > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Speakup mailing list
> > > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Shaun Oliver]

why are we even having this discussion?
a seg fault or illegal operation is simply due to a program trying to
exceed it's memory allocation for whatever reason.
if you don't have the source code or for that matter know what to do about
it, why are you even worrying about it.
all I know is that when an illegal operation on windblows ocurs 9 times
out of 10, it takes the whole os down with it thus causing a stack dump.
or core dump.
why? how the bloody hell should I know? it's windows we're not supposed to
know. We're just expected to run the thing and not cry about it. or, pay
big dollars for some snot nosed little brat to tell what you already knew
in the first place.


-- 
Shaun Oliver

Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > icq:76958435

Re: possible sollution

[brian Moore]

if you have a redhat system, it is full of step by step guides for
doing things.  these are not complete manuals but do this and then do
that short documents to make things happen  if downloading linux is a
major hassle for you, send me your address and I will burn cds of any
distrobution you like and I will send them.  
brian


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/19/02 at 7:14 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:

>Yes I thought the same but I've discovered that  I can't install Linux
by
>myself, without sighted help, especially if I don't know  too many
things
>about Linux.
>In Windows, even  somebody don't know too many things, they could
press the
>"next" button and the system will be installed.
>A friend installed me Red Hat, and there were some errors when trying
to
>install it. He solved the problem, but he also read me those errors
and they
>were criptical for me.
>
>What I don't like under Linux is that there is no help for newbies.
>The people that know very much don't want to lose their times to teach
>others.
>They simply point to a web site, and that's all.
>Well, I am not online all the time because I am on dial up.
>The other manuals are only text format, and I should read a lot just
to  get
>the information I want.
>
>I know, linux is very easy to use if you stay and read manuals for a
few
>months, but it is not my style of learning.
>
>I like the trial and fail by example way of learning.
>
>This is not very easy under Linux because I don't see any error
message
>telling me what's wrong.
>
>I can see "segmentation fault" and I don't know what can I do to solve
it...
>It is the same with the error messages from the log files.
>They tell more than the error messages from under Windows, I think,
but I
>should learn by manual and it is not my style.
>
>I've tried learning from some lists, and almost all the help was "go
to
>http:// ....
>I think you've got the idea.
>
>Well, I've made some lists on Yahoogroups for the blind and I really
try to
>help the people telling them step by step how to do some things, but
Linux
>people don't have the time.
>
>Even that friend that installed me Linux told me that if he sees some
stupid
>questions on a list, he doesn't answer because he loses his time.
>Well, he is right, but if the people who don't know can't find help
from the
>people who know, then why joining a list?
>Just for pointing to a web page?
>I know to search with Google and I can find a lot of information about
>Linux, but  it will take me a lot of time to find what I could find
with a
>single question and answer.
>
>I have a lot of books about Linux and Unix but I don't have the time
to read
>them all.
>
>With my way of learning, I've learned a lot of things for Windows, but
is
>very hard to follow this way under Linux.
>
>Maybe I should change my way ... If I can.
>
>Teddy,
>orasnita@home.ro
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
>To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:56 AM
>Subject: Re: possible sollution
>
>
>This is ridiculous. What do you mean you don't have another
>"solution?" You have Linux, right? Why would you even want to go
>further? Why would you bother to waste time compromising yourself
>over some technology that doesn't even care about you? What kind
>of a masochist are you, anyway? Stand up for yourself, and let
>that other stuff go. You don't need it.
>
>On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
>> Thank you. So the people don't want the others attention. I think
that's
>the
>> problem.
>> In some countries, it is  something very bad to crack or to use
pirated
>> software, but in others, the computer users have no other solution.
>> So if I can't afford to buy something, than the company that
produces that
>> software don't lose anything anyway, because if I don't steal it, I
won't
>> use it. That's all.
>>
>> Teddy,
>> orasnita@home.ro
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
>> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:58 AM
>> Subject: Re: possible sollution
>>
>>
>> our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in
many
>> respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
>> bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same
provisions
>> which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
>> access.
>>
>> I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how
one
>> might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
>> might attract some unwanted attention.
>>
>> Brian.
>>
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>>
>> >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
>> >To speak, not to crack.
>> >
>> >Thank you for information.
>> >Teddy,
>> >orasnita@home.ro
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
>> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>> >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
>> >Subject: Re: possible sollution
>> >
>> >
>> >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
>> course, I
>> >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
>> countries.
>> >Greg
>> >
>> >
>> >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
>> >> *snip*
>> >>
>> >> > Hey Igor,
>> >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
>> >>
>> >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After
all,
>> there
>> >is
>> >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly
over
>> the
>> >line
>> >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to
see
>> this
>> >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
>> could
>> >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Cecil Whitley
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Speakup mailing list
>> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Speakup mailing list
>> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Speakup mailing list
>> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
>--
>
>Janina Sajka, Director
>Technology Research and Development
>Governmental Relations Group
>American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
>Chair, Accessibility SIG
>Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
>http://www.openebook.org
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

OK, Teddy.  I learn this way too.  It is very hard to read a manual if
you do not understand what you are reading.  The best way to start
learning is ask a simple question.  When you get the answer to that
question, go to the next question.  

Decide what you want to do and then ask your questions.  

<smile>  Yes, the man pages are terrible.  I hated man pages when I
first started, but they become more understandable the more you learn.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: possible sollution

[Alex Snow]

Hmm... sounds like another monoply!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> That's something else. I've heard that the screen reader for os/2 is about
$800, and it's the only one out there too.
> Greg
>
>
> On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 12:37:17AM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I've left your post intact.  Just a couple comments about it.  Prior to
> > windows xp m.s. did not have a product which would provide speech while
it
> > was installing.  Slackware has an out-of-the-box speech enabled install
and
> > has for a while.  There are list members here whom donate their time
doing
> > the same for redhat.  Apparently that goes back a ways given the number
of
> > releases held on the speakup ftp site.  I can't speak for other list
> > members, but I try to answer all questions that I can (my knowledge base
is
> > also limited).  In at least one instance I have pointed a user to a
"howto",
> > but that is because of my ignorance on the subject matter and I would
prefer
> > to give accurate information as opposed to being overly helpfull and
> > exceeding my knowledge base.  Wrong answers do more damage than harm (at
> > least in my opinion).  Don't get me wrong, i'm not perfect nor is my
record.
> > I do however try to clearly identify areas that are "guesses" as opposed
to
> > "fact".
> >
> > At least with linux all the documentation is available on-line and in
fact,
> > much of it comes with the distribution.  That's why redhat has a cd
> > dedicated to documentation.  Linux, like windows is an extremely complex
set
> > of various software packages.  Your mileage may vary depending on the
> > hardware you have and the choices you make in the installation process.
> > apropos is a good command to remember as is man and info.
> >
> > In conclusion, if you want a stable gui environment with optional text
mode
> > that doesn't crash several times a day, buy os/2!  It's easy to setup
and
> > runs like a champ.  It is however a bit dated.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cecil
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:14 AM
> > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> >
> >
> > > Yes I thought the same but I've discovered that  I can't install Linux
by
> > > myself, without sighted help, especially if I don't know  too many
things
> > > about Linux.
> > > In Windows, even  somebody don't know too many things, they could
press
> > the
> > > "next" button and the system will be installed.
> > > A friend installed me Red Hat, and there were some errors when trying
to
> > > install it. He solved the problem, but he also read me those errors
and
> > they
> > > were criptical for me.
> > >
> > > What I don't like under Linux is that there is no help for newbies.
> > > The people that know very much don't want to lose their times to teach
> > > others.
> > > They simply point to a web site, and that's all.
> > > Well, I am not online all the time because I am on dial up.
> > > The other manuals are only text format, and I should read a lot just
to
> > get
> > > the information I want.
> > >
> > > I know, linux is very easy to use if you stay and read manuals for a
few
> > > months, but it is not my style of learning.
> > >
> > > I like the trial and fail by example way of learning.
> > >
> > > This is not very easy under Linux because I don't see any error
message
> > > telling me what's wrong.
> > >
> > > I can see "segmentation fault" and I don't know what can I do to solve
> > it...
> > > It is the same with the error messages from the log files.
> > > They tell more than the error messages from under Windows, I think,
but I
> > > should learn by manual and it is not my style.
> > >
> > > I've tried learning from some lists, and almost all the help was "go
to
> > > http:// ....
> > > I think you've got the idea.
> > >
> > > Well, I've made some lists on Yahoogroups for the blind and I really
try
> > to
> > > help the people telling them step by step how to do some things, but
Linux
> > > people don't have the time.
> > >
> > > Even that friend that installed me Linux told me that if he sees some
> > stupid
> > > questions on a list, he doesn't answer because he loses his time.
> > > Well, he is right, but if the people who don't know can't find help
from
> > the
> > > people who know, then why joining a list?
> > > Just for pointing to a web page?
> > > I know to search with Google and I can find a lot of information about
> > > Linux, but  it will take me a lot of time to find what I could find
with a
> > > single question and answer.
> > >
> > > I have a lot of books about Linux and Unix but I don't have the time
to
> > read
> > > them all.
> > >
> > > With my way of learning, I've learned a lot of things for Windows, but
is
> > > very hard to follow this way under Linux.
> > >
> > > Maybe I should change my way ... If I can.
> > >
> > > Teddy,
> > > orasnita@home.ro
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:56 AM
> > > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > >
> > >
> > > This is ridiculous. What do you mean you don't have another
> > > "solution?" You have Linux, right? Why would you even want to go
> > > further? Why would you bother to waste time compromising yourself
> > > over some technology that doesn't even care about you? What kind
> > > of a masochist are you, anyway? Stand up for yourself, and let
> > > that other stuff go. You don't need it.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thank you. So the people don't want the others attention. I think
that's
> > > the
> > > > problem.
> > > > In some countries, it is  something very bad to crack or to use
pirated
> > > > software, but in others, the computer users have no other solution.
> > > > So if I can't afford to buy something, than the company that
produces
> > that
> > > > software don't lose anything anyway, because if I don't steal it, I
> > won't
> > > > use it. That's all.
> > > >
> > > > Teddy,
> > > > orasnita@home.ro
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
> > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:58 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in
many
> > > > respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
> > > > bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same
provisions
> > > > which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
> > > > access.
> > > >
> > > > I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how
one
> > > > might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
> > > > might attract some unwanted attention.
> > > >
> > > > Brian.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > > >
> > > > On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> > > > >To speak, not to crack.
> > > > >
> > > > >Thank you for information.
> > > > >Teddy,
> > > > >orasnita@home.ro
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> > > > >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
> > > > course, I
> > > > >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
> > > > countries.
> > > > >Greg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > > > >> *snip*
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Hey Igor,
> > > > >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After
all,
> > > > there
> > > > >is
> > > > >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly
over
> > > > the
> > > > >line
> > > > >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to
see
> > > > this
> > > > >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
> > > > could
> > > > >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Regards,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Cecil Whitley
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Speakup mailing list
> > > > >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >Speakup mailing list
> > > > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >Speakup mailing list
> > > > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: possible sollution

[Alex Snow]

Yeah, all you have to do is through your computer out the window because a
broken computer is worth more than a computer running winblows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 07:14:16AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > This is not very easy under Linux because I don't see any error message
> > telling me what's wrong.
> >
> > I can see "segmentation fault" and I don't know what can I do to solve
it...
> > It is the same with the error messages from the log files.
>
> I suppose that when you get an illegal operation error in windblows, you
know exactly what it means and what you should do to correct it in the
future?
> Greg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: possible sollution

[Alex Snow]

And now they want to release earlier versions of winblows with the speach in
the install.  Why the hell would I want to go back to an earlier version of
winblows? Why the hell would I want to go back to winblows anyway? To give
gates enough money to add that 150th indoor heated pool to his house? I
don't think so!  The only upgrade I may try is windows xp to see if it's
really as good as microsoft thinks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> Hi,
> I've left your post intact.  Just a couple comments about it.  Prior to
> windows xp m.s. did not have a product which would provide speech while it
> was installing.  Slackware has an out-of-the-box speech enabled install
and
> has for a while.  There are list members here whom donate their time doing
> the same for redhat.  Apparently that goes back a ways given the number of
> releases held on the speakup ftp site.  I can't speak for other list
> members, but I try to answer all questions that I can (my knowledge base
is
> also limited).  In at least one instance I have pointed a user to a
"howto",
> but that is because of my ignorance on the subject matter and I would
prefer
> to give accurate information as opposed to being overly helpfull and
> exceeding my knowledge base.  Wrong answers do more damage than harm (at
> least in my opinion).  Don't get me wrong, i'm not perfect nor is my
record.
> I do however try to clearly identify areas that are "guesses" as opposed
to
> "fact".
>
> At least with linux all the documentation is available on-line and in
fact,
> much of it comes with the distribution.  That's why redhat has a cd
> dedicated to documentation.  Linux, like windows is an extremely complex
set
> of various software packages.  Your mileage may vary depending on the
> hardware you have and the choices you make in the installation process.
> apropos is a good command to remember as is man and info.
>
> In conclusion, if you want a stable gui environment with optional text
mode
> that doesn't crash several times a day, buy os/2!  It's easy to setup and
> runs like a champ.  It is however a bit dated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cecil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:14 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
>
>
> > Yes I thought the same but I've discovered that  I can't install Linux
by
> > myself, without sighted help, especially if I don't know  too many
things
> > about Linux.
> > In Windows, even  somebody don't know too many things, they could press
> the
> > "next" button and the system will be installed.
> > A friend installed me Red Hat, and there were some errors when trying to
> > install it. He solved the problem, but he also read me those errors and
> they
> > were criptical for me.
> >
> > What I don't like under Linux is that there is no help for newbies.
> > The people that know very much don't want to lose their times to teach
> > others.
> > They simply point to a web site, and that's all.
> > Well, I am not online all the time because I am on dial up.
> > The other manuals are only text format, and I should read a lot just to
> get
> > the information I want.
> >
> > I know, linux is very easy to use if you stay and read manuals for a few
> > months, but it is not my style of learning.
> >
> > I like the trial and fail by example way of learning.
> >
> > This is not very easy under Linux because I don't see any error message
> > telling me what's wrong.
> >
> > I can see "segmentation fault" and I don't know what can I do to solve
> it...
> > It is the same with the error messages from the log files.
> > They tell more than the error messages from under Windows, I think, but
I
> > should learn by manual and it is not my style.
> >
> > I've tried learning from some lists, and almost all the help was "go to
> > http:// ....
> > I think you've got the idea.
> >
> > Well, I've made some lists on Yahoogroups for the blind and I really try
> to
> > help the people telling them step by step how to do some things, but
Linux
> > people don't have the time.
> >
> > Even that friend that installed me Linux told me that if he sees some
> stupid
> > questions on a list, he doesn't answer because he loses his time.
> > Well, he is right, but if the people who don't know can't find help from
> the
> > people who know, then why joining a list?
> > Just for pointing to a web page?
> > I know to search with Google and I can find a lot of information about
> > Linux, but  it will take me a lot of time to find what I could find with
a
> > single question and answer.
> >
> > I have a lot of books about Linux and Unix but I don't have the time to
> read
> > them all.
> >
> > With my way of learning, I've learned a lot of things for Windows, but
is
> > very hard to follow this way under Linux.
> >
> > Maybe I should change my way ... If I can.
> >
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> >
> >
> > This is ridiculous. What do you mean you don't have another
> > "solution?" You have Linux, right? Why would you even want to go
> > further? Why would you bother to waste time compromising yourself
> > over some technology that doesn't even care about you? What kind
> > of a masochist are you, anyway? Stand up for yourself, and let
> > that other stuff go. You don't need it.
> >
> > On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you. So the people don't want the others attention. I think
that's
> > the
> > > problem.
> > > In some countries, it is  something very bad to crack or to use
pirated
> > > software, but in others, the computer users have no other solution.
> > > So if I can't afford to buy something, than the company that produces
> that
> > > software don't lose anything anyway, because if I don't steal it, I
> won't
> > > use it. That's all.
> > >
> > > Teddy,
> > > orasnita@home.ro
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:58 AM
> > > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > >
> > >
> > > our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
> > > respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
> > > bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
> > > which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
> > > access.
> > >
> > > I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
> > > might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
> > > might attract some unwanted attention.
> > >
> > > Brian.
> > >
> > >
> > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > >
> > > On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > >
> > > >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> > > >To speak, not to crack.
> > > >
> > > >Thank you for information.
> > > >Teddy,
> > > >orasnita@home.ro
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> > > >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
> > > course, I
> > > >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
> > > countries.
> > > >Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > > >> *snip*
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hey Igor,
> > > >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> > > >>
> > > >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
> > > there
> > > >is
> > > >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
> > > the
> > > >line
> > > >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
> > > this
> > > >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
> > > could
> > > >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Cecil Whitley
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Speakup mailing list
> > > >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Speakup mailing list
> > > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Speakup mailing list
> > > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: possible sollution

[Kenny Hitt]

First: How did you know when to select nest in Windows when You can't 
install a screen reader until after you install Windows?
Second:  When people tell you to go to a web sight, they are 
telling you where to find help for your problem.  If you're to
stupid or lazy to bother learning, that is your fault.
Third: All the distributions I've tried have the same aproach
during their install.  Mainly, if you don't know just press
enter and the install program will make a choice for you.
         Kenny

On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 07:14:16AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> Yes I thought the same but I've discovered that  I can't install Linux by
> myself, without sighted help, especially if I don't know  too many things
> about Linux.
> In Windows, even  somebody don't know too many things, they could press the
> "next" button and the system will be installed.
> A friend installed me Red Hat, and there were some errors when trying to
> install it. He solved the problem, but he also read me those errors and they
> were criptical for me.
> 
> What I don't like under Linux is that there is no help for newbies.
> The people that know very much don't want to lose their times to teach
> others.
> They simply point to a web site, and that's all.
> Well, I am not online all the time because I am on dial up.
> The other manuals are only text format, and I should read a lot just to  get
> the information I want.
> 
> I know, linux is very easy to use if you stay and read manuals for a few
> months, but it is not my style of learning.
> 
> I like the trial and fail by example way of learning.
> 
> This is not very easy under Linux because I don't see any error message
> telling me what's wrong.
> 
> I can see "segmentation fault" and I don't know what can I do to solve it...
> It is the same with the error messages from the log files.
> They tell more than the error messages from under Windows, I think, but I
> should learn by manual and it is not my style.
> 
> I've tried learning from some lists, and almost all the help was "go to
> http:// ....
> I think you've got the idea.
> 
> Well, I've made some lists on Yahoogroups for the blind and I really try to
> help the people telling them step by step how to do some things, but Linux
> people don't have the time.
> 
> Even that friend that installed me Linux told me that if he sees some stupid
> questions on a list, he doesn't answer because he loses his time.
> Well, he is right, but if the people who don't know can't find help from the
> people who know, then why joining a list?
> Just for pointing to a web page?
> I know to search with Google and I can find a lot of information about
> Linux, but  it will take me a lot of time to find what I could find with a
> single question and answer.
> 
> I have a lot of books about Linux and Unix but I don't have the time to read
> them all.
> 
> With my way of learning, I've learned a lot of things for Windows, but is
> very hard to follow this way under Linux.
> 
> Maybe I should change my way ... If I can.
> 
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:56 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
> 
> 
> This is ridiculous. What do you mean you don't have another
> "solution?" You have Linux, right? Why would you even want to go
> further? Why would you bother to waste time compromising yourself
> over some technology that doesn't even care about you? What kind
> of a masochist are you, anyway? Stand up for yourself, and let
> that other stuff go. You don't need it.
> 
> On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> 
> > Thank you. So the people don't want the others attention. I think that's
> the
> > problem.
> > In some countries, it is  something very bad to crack or to use pirated
> > software, but in others, the computer users have no other solution.
> > So if I can't afford to buy something, than the company that produces that
> > software don't lose anything anyway, because if I don't steal it, I won't
> > use it. That's all.
> >
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> >
> >
> > our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
> > respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
> > bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
> > which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
> > access.
> >
> > I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
> > might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
> > might attract some unwanted attention.
> >
> > Brian.
> >
> >
> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >
> > On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> >
> > >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> > >To speak, not to crack.
> > >
> > >Thank you for information.
> > >Teddy,
> > >orasnita@home.ro
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> > >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> > >Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > >
> > >
> > >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
> > course, I
> > >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
> > countries.
> > >Greg
> > >
> > >
> > >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > >> *snip*
> > >>
> > >> > Hey Igor,
> > >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> > >>
> > >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
> > there
> > >is
> > >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
> > the
> > >line
> > >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
> > this
> > >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
> > could
> > >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Cecil Whitley
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Speakup mailing list
> > >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Speakup mailing list
> > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Speakup mailing list
> > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Janina Sajka]

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> The only upgrade I may try is windows xp to see if it's
> really as good as microsoft thinks.



If you do, think carefully before bringing it up on line.
Because, when you do, M$ will know the serial number of every
chip on your computer, and whether or not you have a license for
every piece of costware you've installed.

They're making a list, and checking it twice, and they're not
Santa Claus, though they have been known to play him on TV.

Re: possible sollution

[Charles Crawford]

	I think the points made about help for new folks with Linix are on point 
for many.  I hope those tutorials get done soon.  Understanding the system 
from the guts up and getting practice with tutored commands and apps will 
help many including myself.

-- charlie.

Re: Windows XP spying (was possible sollution)

[Adam Myrow]

Could you use something like Tiny Personal Firewall or Zone Alarm to block
Windows XP from sending out stuff?  Or, would it start complaining that it
couldn't send "vital" information?  I wouldn't expect Windows XP's own
firewall to block it, so it would surely be a third party one.  Or, you
could put it behind a Linux box and have it block the crap it is trying to
send out.  I had heard rumors about Windows XP doing this sort of stuff,
so that's why I've avoided it.  I'm still dual booting with Windows 95.
Does Windows 2000 send out all your serial numbers and track you like
that?

Re: Windows XP spying (was possible sollution)

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Adam. The tracking thing has been implemented only on Winxp. W2k doesn't use it. For w2k just get a Cd key from somewhere like Donkey. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Adam Myrow <myrow@eskimo.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Windows XP spying (was possible sollution)


> Could you use something like Tiny Personal Firewall or Zone Alarm to block
> Windows XP from sending out stuff?  Or, would it start complaining that it
> couldn't send "vital" information?  I wouldn't expect Windows XP's own
> firewall to block it, so it would surely be a third party one.  Or, you
> could put it behind a Linux box and have it block the crap it is trying to
> send out.  I had heard rumors about Windows XP doing this sort of stuff,
> so that's why I've avoided it.  I'm still dual booting with Windows 95.
> Does Windows 2000 send out all your serial numbers and track you like
> that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Windows XP spying (was possible sollution)

[David Poehlman]

you can actually turn off all of the spy stuff which I have done with no
complaints.  Yes, I use zone alarm and you can bet it blocks everything
I don't want send out.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Myrow" <myrow@eskimo.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Windows XP spying (was possible sollution)


Could you use something like Tiny Personal Firewall or Zone Alarm to
block
Windows XP from sending out stuff?  Or, would it start complaining that
it
couldn't send "vital" information?  I wouldn't expect Windows XP's own
firewall to block it, so it would surely be a third party one.  Or, you
could put it behind a Linux box and have it block the crap it is trying
to
send out.  I had heard rumors about Windows XP doing this sort of stuff,
so that's why I've avoided it.  I'm still dual booting with Windows 95.
Does Windows 2000 send out all your serial numbers and track you like
that?




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Deedra Waters]

I think that tutorials will help a lot. It's mor interactive then just
sitting and reading in the sense that hopefully their easier to follow,
and easier to understand, and if they work like most tutorials I've seen
do, then you can just follow along with the examples given in the
tutorial.



On Sun, 19 May 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:

> 	I think the points made about help for new folks with Linix are on point 
> for many.  I hope those tutorials get done soon.  Understanding the system 
> from the guts up and getting practice with tutored commands and apps will 
> help many including myself.
> 
> -- charlie.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: possible sollution

[Maurice A. Mines]

hi all this vary not trouw and please stop or I am gouing tto leave this 
list !!!

Re: possible sollution

[Janina Sajka]

Maurice:

You didn't include the message you were replying to, or provide
any explanation of what you're talking about. Do you mind trying
again? 




On Mon, 20 May 2002, Maurice A. Mines wrote:

> hi all this vary not trouw and please stop or I am gouing tto leave this 
> list !!!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: possible sollution

[Maurice A. Mines]

hi I am talking about the windows bashing I use both linux andwindows my 
physfpey is to use both and that both have the playse and please stope 
talking about piritting software that is vay elicgle I gess I am filling 
over welmed by email please let's just get back to talking about speakup 
please??

Re: possible sollution

[Erik Heil]

Hi,
Well, owuld you like to pay the prices for say JFW?  If you think about it,
its a ripoff.  I oculd go on with this line of thinking, but its not worth
it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maurice A. Mines" <mmines@mines-family.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> hi I am talking about the windows bashing I use both linux andwindows my
> physfpey is to use both and that both have the playse and please stope
> talking about piritting software that is vay elicgle I gess I am filling
> over welmed by email please let's just get back to talking about speakup
> please??
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: possible sollution

[Shaun Oliver]

please note my comments below.

-- 
Shaun Oliver

Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > icq:76958435

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> On Sun, 19 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
>
> > The only upgrade I may try is windows xp to see if it's
> > really as good as microsoft thinks.
>
>
>
> If you do, think carefully before bringing it up on line.
> Because, when you do, M$ will know the serial number of every
> chip on your computer, and whether or not you have a license for
> every piece of costware you've installed.
Janina, from what I understand with all due respect, microsoft will only
know about their operating system and not too much more than that.
If however, I'm wrong, then that's fine I'll stand up and say so.
Having said that however, I think that it's that sort of scare mungering
that make microsoft the overbaring monopoly it is today.
This spying however, will only be a problem is people register the thing
over the net as I understand it.
>
> They're making a list, and checking it twice, and they're not
> Santa Claus, though they have been known to play him on TV.
Oh my god. please enlighten meI don't think we've had those vissions over
here in australia.
haha

>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Windows XP spying (was possible sollution)

[Shaun Oliver]

zonealarm blocks anything it doesn't know what is.
it's a good little firewall as windows based firewalls go.
hth


-- 
Shaun Oliver

Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > icq:76958435

Re: possible sollution

[Gregory Nowak]

Hey, I know I'm bad sometimes, but why don't you check your spelling/typing? Also, as long as Kirk himself doesn't say windows bashing is not allowed on this list, I will with much pleasure continue to bash it when someone like Amir offends my GNU/Linux sensibilities by singing the praises of windows.
Greg


On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 05:14:13AM +0000, Maurice A. Mines wrote:
> hi I am talking about the windows bashing I use both linux andwindows my 
> physfpey is to use both and that both have the playse and please stope 
> talking about piritting software that is vay elicgle I gess I am filling 
> over welmed by email please let's just get back to talking about speakup 
> please??
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Deedra Waters]

Greg, I get the impression that his english probably isn't verry good, why
not keep personal  attacks off the list?:p

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Hey, I know I'm bad sometimes, but why don't you check your spelling/typing? Also, as long as Kirk himself doesn't say windows bashing is not allowed on this list, I will with much pleasure continue to bash it when someone like Amir offends my GNU/Linux sensibilities by singing the praises of windows.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 05:14:13AM +0000, Maurice A. Mines wrote:
> > hi I am talking about the windows bashing I use both linux andwindows my 
> > physfpey is to use both and that both have the playse and please stope 
> > talking about piritting software that is vay elicgle I gess I am filling 
> > over welmed by email please let's just get back to talking about speakup 
> > please??
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: possible sollution

[Igor Gueths]

As Erik said, I don't like to buy from companies like Microsucks and Freedom what is it again? who like to rip you off by selling you an overpriced operating system, or a 3.5 inch duel density floppy for $500.00? Get the point? 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Erik Heil <eheil@rcn.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> Hi,
> Well, owuld you like to pay the prices for say JFW?  If you think about it,
> its a ripoff.  I oculd go on with this line of thinking, but its not worth
> it.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Maurice A. Mines" <mmines@mines-family.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 1:14 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
> 
> 
> > hi I am talking about the windows bashing I use both linux andwindows my
> > physfpey is to use both and that both have the playse and please stope
> > talking about piritting software that is vay elicgle I gess I am filling
> > over welmed by email please let's just get back to talking about speakup
> > please??
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Scott Howell]

You know I really hate winers. I hate those who not only are to damned
lazy to read, but those who will even admitt their to lazy to read. They
act as though their time is so valuable they can't be bothered even
making some attempt at solving the problem. Well all I can say is piss
off and don't ask any questions until you make some attempt to help
yourself. I also hate when fuck stick people use this forum to single
out someone for their tirades. This really could have been handled off
list unless your ranting against those idiots in general.
I hate lazy people as much as the next person.


On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 12:07:29PM -0500, Kenny Hitt wrote:
> First: How did you know when to select nest in Windows when You can't 
> install a screen reader until after you install Windows?
> Second:  When people tell you to go to a web sight, they are 
> telling you where to find help for your problem.  If you're to
> stupid or lazy to bother learning, that is your fault.
> Third: All the distributions I've tried have the same aproach
> during their install.  Mainly, if you don't know just press
> enter and the install program will make a choice for you.
>          Kenny
> 
> On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 07:14:16AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > Yes I thought the same but I've discovered that  I can't install Linux by
> > myself, without sighted help, especially if I don't know  too many things
> > about Linux.
> > In Windows, even  somebody don't know too many things, they could press the
> > "next" button and the system will be installed.
> > A friend installed me Red Hat, and there were some errors when trying to
> > install it. He solved the problem, but he also read me those errors and they
> > were criptical for me.
> > 
> > What I don't like under Linux is that there is no help for newbies.
> > The people that know very much don't want to lose their times to teach
> > others.
> > They simply point to a web site, and that's all.
> > Well, I am not online all the time because I am on dial up.
> > The other manuals are only text format, and I should read a lot just to  get
> > the information I want.
> > 
> > I know, linux is very easy to use if you stay and read manuals for a few
> > months, but it is not my style of learning.
> > 
> > I like the trial and fail by example way of learning.
> > 
> > This is not very easy under Linux because I don't see any error message
> > telling me what's wrong.
> > 
> > I can see "segmentation fault" and I don't know what can I do to solve it...
> > It is the same with the error messages from the log files.
> > They tell more than the error messages from under Windows, I think, but I
> > should learn by manual and it is not my style.
> > 
> > I've tried learning from some lists, and almost all the help was "go to
> > http:// ....
> > I think you've got the idea.
> > 
> > Well, I've made some lists on Yahoogroups for the blind and I really try to
> > help the people telling them step by step how to do some things, but Linux
> > people don't have the time.
> > 
> > Even that friend that installed me Linux told me that if he sees some stupid
> > questions on a list, he doesn't answer because he loses his time.
> > Well, he is right, but if the people who don't know can't find help from the
> > people who know, then why joining a list?
> > Just for pointing to a web page?
> > I know to search with Google and I can find a lot of information about
> > Linux, but  it will take me a lot of time to find what I could find with a
> > single question and answer.
> > 
> > I have a lot of books about Linux and Unix but I don't have the time to read
> > them all.
> > 
> > With my way of learning, I've learned a lot of things for Windows, but is
> > very hard to follow this way under Linux.
> > 
> > Maybe I should change my way ... If I can.
> > 
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > 
> > 
> > This is ridiculous. What do you mean you don't have another
> > "solution?" You have Linux, right? Why would you even want to go
> > further? Why would you bother to waste time compromising yourself
> > over some technology that doesn't even care about you? What kind
> > of a masochist are you, anyway? Stand up for yourself, and let
> > that other stuff go. You don't need it.
> > 
> > On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > 
> > > Thank you. So the people don't want the others attention. I think that's
> > the
> > > problem.
> > > In some countries, it is  something very bad to crack or to use pirated
> > > software, but in others, the computer users have no other solution.
> > > So if I can't afford to buy something, than the company that produces that
> > > software don't lose anything anyway, because if I don't steal it, I won't
> > > use it. That's all.
> > >
> > > Teddy,
> > > orasnita@home.ro
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "brian Moore" <admin@bmoore.yi.org>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 6:58 AM
> > > Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > >
> > >
> > > our copy right laws in Canada are not significantly different in many
> > > respects than those in the u.s.  this is one of my gripes with
> > > bookshare abut that is a separate issue.  we have the same provisions
> > > which allow for alternate format distribution but we still can't get
> > > access.
> > >
> > > I am no copy right lawyer but I would suspect that discussing how one
> > > might by pass a copy protection system is not strictly illegal, it
> > > might attract some unwanted attention.
> > >
> > > Brian.
> > >
> > >
> > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > >
> > > On 5/18/02 at 5:50 AM Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > >
> > > >Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> > > >To speak, not to crack.
> > > >
> > > >Thank you for information.
> > > >Teddy,
> > > >orasnita@home.ro
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> > > >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: possible sollution
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of
> > > course, I
> > > >don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2
> > > countries.
> > > >Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > > >> *snip*
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hey Igor,
> > > >> > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> > > >>
> > > >> Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all,
> > > there
> > > >is
> > > >> a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over
> > > the
> > > >line
> > > >> of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see
> > > this
> > > >> list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both
> > > could
> > > >> occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Cecil Whitley
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Speakup mailing list
> > > >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Speakup mailing list
> > > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Speakup mailing list
> > > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: possible sollution

[Scott Howell]

what? da I didn't understand what you typed here.

On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 01:37:11AM +0000, Maurice A. Mines wrote:
> hi all this vary not trouw and please stop or I am gouing tto leave this 
> list !!!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: possible sollution

[Will Smith]

Hi Scott,

Good!  Now we know what you hate.  So how's about telling us what you can
do  to give and receive help on this list?

Or is listing your pet peeves supposed to be helpful? (smile)

Will
wilsmith@iglou.com

P. S.  As a former high school teacher let me tell you that you will never
be able to shame a lazy student into working harder.  Other methods might
work, but that one never does!


On Mon, 20 May 2002, Scott Howell wrote:

>
> You know I really hate winers. I hate those who not only are to damned
> lazy to read, but those who will even admitt their to lazy to read. They
etc.

Re: possible sollution

[Steve Holmes]

It might be legal to talk about such things but there's a lot of
corporate paranoids out there on witch hunts and would love to pop a
bunch of seemingly inocint guys out there because they're talking
about cracking and copying and whatever.  Plus the basig subject
matter of this list is linux and speakup and obviously, the software
that revolves around it.  None of this software needs to be cracked,
by the way.  

As far as I'm concerned, cracks of proprietary programs, JFW auth keys
and the like really don't belong on this list.  No, I'm not the
moderator of this list but please, I want to read relevant GNU/Linux
and speakup related messages, not windows stuff.

On Sat, May 18, 2002 at 05:50:52AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> Is illegal in Canada to speak about cracks?
> To speak, not to crack.
> 
> Thank you for information.
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
> 
> 
> I agree. However, this list is on a machine in Canada. So ... Of course, I
> don't know what the differences in such laws are between the 2 countries.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:30:51PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > *snip*
> >
> > > Hey Igor,
> > > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> >
> > Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all, there
> is
> > a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the
> line
> > of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
> > list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
> > occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cecil Whitley
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Steve Holmes]

I think a Russian fello went to jail for something like this.  He had
some utility to break through into protected PDF files.

Like I said before in my last post, I hope crack discussions move
elsewhere.  I sure don't want to see a list of linux users get accused
or sighted for aleged illegal activities and get taken away from us.
You never know these paranoid days.

On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 03:16:40AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> What does it mean to encourage?
> Can I  make an online course for those who want learning how to crack
> software?
> They don't want to crack, and they won't use a pirated version, but they
> want to learn only.
> Is it illegal to learn?
> 
> It was just an example. Unfortunately I don't know so many things about
> software development to be able  to crack something which is a little
> harder...
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 7:50 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
> 
> 
> Hi Cecil,
> 
> Actually, here in the states, I believe our freedom of speech rights would
> hold up to a court of law on this regard.  Notice, I say freedom of speech,
> not freedom of actions.  So, we can talk about it as long as we don't
> actually do it or encourage anyone...
> 
> Regards.
> 
> At 08:30 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >*snip*
> >
> > > Hey Igor,
> > > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> >
> >Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all, there
> is
> >a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the line
> >of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
> >list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
> >occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Cecil Whitley
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >---
> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002
> 
> Best regards,
> Darrell Shandrow
> Access technology consulting / network and UNIX         systems
> administration.
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Hi Gregg and all,

     Maurice has a written expression disorder also known as Dysgraphia.  
He's unable to map sounds to letters.  It's so bad that even a 
spell-checker doesn't help.  If you read carefully, you should be able to 
get the gist of what he's saying.  If not, just ask for clarification.




         Thanks in advance for your understanding.
          Bill


On Mon, 20 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Hey, I know I'm bad sometimes, but why don't you check your 
spelling/typing? Also, as long as Kirk himself doesn't say windows bashing is not allowed on this list, I will with much pleasure continue to bash it when someone like Amir offends my GNU/Linux sensibilities by singing the praises of windows.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 05:14:13AM +0000, Maurice A. Mines wrote:
> > hi I am talking about the windows bashing I use both linux andwindows my 
> > physfpey is to use both and that both have the playse and please stope 
> > talking about piritting software that is vay elicgle I gess I am filling 
> > over welmed by email please let's just get back to talking about speakup 
> > please??
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: possible sollution

[Gregory Nowak]

I apologize. It's a comfort to know that I'm not the only one in the world who places judgement on others without knowing their circumstances.
Greg


On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 10:09:50PM -0600, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> Hi Gregg and all,
> 
>      Maurice has a written expression disorder also known as Dysgraphia.  
> He's unable to map sounds to letters.  It's so bad that even a 
> spell-checker doesn't help.  If you read carefully, you should be able to 
> get the gist of what he's saying.  If not, just ask for clarification.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>          Thanks in advance for your understanding.
>           Bill
> 
> 
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > Hey, I know I'm bad sometimes, but why don't you check your 
> spelling/typing? Also, as long as Kirk himself doesn't say windows bashing is not allowed on this list, I will with much pleasure continue to bash it when someone like Amir offends my GNU/Linux sensibilities by singing the praises of windows.
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 05:14:13AM +0000, Maurice A. Mines wrote:
> > > hi I am talking about the windows bashing I use both linux andwindows my 
> > > physfpey is to use both and that both have the playse and please stope 
> > > talking about piritting software that is vay elicgle I gess I am filling 
> > > over welmed by email please let's just get back to talking about speakup 
> > > please??
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Octavian Rasnita]

Yes, that is a very good idea.
BTW. If you don't want, please don't talk about pirating software. This may
be illegal in some countries including yours.
However, I don't know if it is illegal to talk only.

Regards.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maurice A. Mines" <mmines@mines-family.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


hi I am talking about the windows bashing I use both linux andwindows my
physfpey is to use both and that both have the playse and please stope
talking about piritting software that is vay elicgle I gess I am filling
over welmed by email please let's just get back to talking about speakup
please??


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: possible sollution

[Octavian Rasnita]

500 dollars?
Where can you buy such a cheap version of Jaws?
The cheapest I know it was somewhere around 700 dollars.
The official price from Freedom ScienceFiction is 800 dollars.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


As Erik said, I don't like to buy from companies like Microsucks and Freedom
what is it again? who like to rip you off by selling you an overpriced
operating system, or a 3.5 inch duel density floppy for $500.00? Get the
point?
----- Original Message -----
From: Erik Heil <eheil@rcn.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


> Hi,
> Well, owuld you like to pay the prices for say JFW?  If you think about
it,
> its a ripoff.  I oculd go on with this line of thinking, but its not worth
> it.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Maurice A. Mines" <mmines@mines-family.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 1:14 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
>
>
> > hi I am talking about the windows bashing I use both linux andwindows my
> > physfpey is to use both and that both have the playse and please stope
> > talking about piritting software that is vay elicgle I gess I am filling
> > over welmed by email please let's just get back to talking about speakup
> > please??
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


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Re: possible sollution

[Octavian Rasnita]

Yes, unfortunately. That guy made a great program.
Now the Advanced PDF password recovery is available, and it is a great tool
for the blind who want to save the PDF file as text, if the PDF file is copy
protected.
And I've seen that this product is legal now. It has a web site, a price,
advertising.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Holmes" <steve@holmesgrown.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: possible sollution


I think a Russian fello went to jail for something like this.  He had
some utility to break through into protected PDF files.

Like I said before in my last post, I hope crack discussions move
elsewhere.  I sure don't want to see a list of linux users get accused
or sighted for aleged illegal activities and get taken away from us.
You never know these paranoid days.

On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 03:16:40AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> What does it mean to encourage?
> Can I  make an online course for those who want learning how to crack
> software?
> They don't want to crack, and they won't use a pirated version, but they
> want to learn only.
> Is it illegal to learn?
>
> It was just an example. Unfortunately I don't know so many things about
> software development to be able  to crack something which is a little
> harder...
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 7:50 AM
> Subject: Re: possible sollution
>
>
> Hi Cecil,
>
> Actually, here in the states, I believe our freedom of speech rights would
> hold up to a court of law on this regard.  Notice, I say freedom of
speech,
> not freedom of actions.  So, we can talk about it as long as we don't
> actually do it or encourage anyone...
>
> Regards.
>
> At 08:30 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >*snip*
> >
> > > Hey Igor,
> > > What you may want to look at is just doing a dump *snip*
> >
> >Can you please cease and desist with this on this list?  After all, there
> is
> >a DMCA for us here in the u.s.  This thread is quite possibly over the
line
> >of what is legal within this country.  I for one do not wish to see this
> >list banned and the site blocked and I assume that either or both could
> >occur within the u.s.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Cecil Whitley
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
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> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002
>
> Best regards,
> Darrell Shandrow
> Access technology consulting / network and UNIX         systems
> administration.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
>
> ---
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> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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Re: possible sollution

[Scott Howell]

Fyi bud, I've provided help and have been here a while. If I want to
rant on occation then so be it just hit delete. 
I had my say and your reply was of no value I'm through with this
thread.

Re: possible sollution

[Buddy Brannan]

On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 06:23:55PM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> Fyi bud, I've provided help and have been here a while. If I want to
> rant on occation then so be it just hit delete. 

Speaking of ranting...I'm really getting tired of y'all people using
blaming me for everything! I haven't even posted on this thread once,
and I can think of three times that I've been saying things I haven't
come anywhere near close to saying. Hint: I'm Buddy. He's Teddy (or
Octavian, or whoever he is). 

Yeah, just kidding. Sheesh people!
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3  | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
                         | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields

Re: possible sollution

[Janina Sajka]

Hey, Buddy:

I used the word "buddy," with Octavian once. I didn't mean you,
though. I meant it in lower case, sort of like generic, you know.

Sorry if you thought I meant you.

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 06:23:55PM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> > Fyi bud, I've provided help and have been here a while. If I want to
> > rant on occation then so be it just hit delete. 
> 
> Speaking of ranting...I'm really getting tired of y'all people using
> blaming me for everything! I haven't even posted on this thread once,
> and I can think of three times that I've been saying things I haven't
> come anywhere near close to saying. Hint: I'm Buddy. He's Teddy (or
> Octavian, or whoever he is). 
> 
> Yeah, just kidding. Sheesh people!
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: possible sollution

[Buddy Brannan]

On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 11:29:24PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Hey, Buddy:
> 
> I used the word "buddy," with Octavian once. I didn't mean you,
> though. I meant it in lower case, sort of like generic, you know.

*LOL*...OK, sorry, I knew that, but it was my poor attempt at levity. Seems to me things are getting a little tense around these here parts. ... 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3  | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
                         | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields

Re: possible sollution

[Janina Sajka]

On Wed, 22 May 2002, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> *LOL*...OK, sorry, I knew that, but it was my poor attempt at levity. Seems to me things are getting a little tense around these here parts. ... 
> 
Yeah. So it seems. I know about me. I'm tired and crabby from too
much traveling and too much work. I need a vacation. Next week.
Bring on next week. Then, maybe I'll be better at suffering fools
gladly.


-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org