mutt

mutt

[Chris Peterson]

Hi all,

I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I love it!
It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the differences
between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and loved it.
I think I'd like mutt better, though.

Thanks,
Chris

Re: mutt

[Janina Sajka]

Well, the big difference, arguably, is the license. Mutt is GPL.

On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I love it!
> It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the differences
> between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and loved it.
> I think I'd like mutt better, though.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: mutt

[Chris Peterson]

Well, all I can say is that, until today, I hadn't used pine for probably
five years.  I also have never used mutt until today.

So, lets just assume for the moment that I'm not an expert on either mailer,
which I'm not.  On a blind friendlyness scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the
highest and 1 is the lowest, I'd put pine at about a 4 or 5.  That is to say
that, it can be used, but it really is designed to be more graphical than we
need it to be and, while you can configure some stuff to make it better, the
defaults make it a little difficult.

Mutt, on the other hand, has a brief menu of commands at the top of each
screen.  They don't pack enough in there to make it hard to understand; and,
my only regret was that I couldn't figure out how to turn that menu off.
The only reason I'd want to do that, by the way, is because I have to listen
to that menu at the beginning of any message.  Of course, there is probably
something that can be done to make that better, but I'm not an expert.

Never-the-less, it was a joy to operate in the first five minutes or so,
which pine definetly was not.

I'm not sure what version my isp is running, but I'll have to go and grab
the source code some time and have a look through it.

Also, by default, the cursor tracks the bar in mutt, at least that is the
way my isp had it set up.  Having not tried it on my own machine, I don't
know.

Anyway, for what its worth, I think its cool.

73,
Chris Peterson, KG0BP



----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: mutt


> Well, the big difference, arguably, is the license. Mutt is GPL.
>
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I love
it!
> > It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the differences
> > between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and loved
it.
> > I think I'd like mutt better, though.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: mutt

[Charles Crawford]

Where did you get Mutt from?

-- charlie.At 12:08 PM 02/02/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>Well, all I can say is that, until today, I hadn't used pine for probably
>five years.  I also have never used mutt until today.
>
>So, lets just assume for the moment that I'm not an expert on either mailer,
>which I'm not.  On a blind friendlyness scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the
>highest and 1 is the lowest, I'd put pine at about a 4 or 5.  That is to say
>that, it can be used, but it really is designed to be more graphical than we
>need it to be and, while you can configure some stuff to make it better, the
>defaults make it a little difficult.
>
>Mutt, on the other hand, has a brief menu of commands at the top of each
>screen.  They don't pack enough in there to make it hard to understand; and,
>my only regret was that I couldn't figure out how to turn that menu off.
>The only reason I'd want to do that, by the way, is because I have to listen
>to that menu at the beginning of any message.  Of course, there is probably
>something that can be done to make that better, but I'm not an expert.
>
>Never-the-less, it was a joy to operate in the first five minutes or so,
>which pine definetly was not.
>
>I'm not sure what version my isp is running, but I'll have to go and grab
>the source code some time and have a look through it.
>
>Also, by default, the cursor tracks the bar in mutt, at least that is the
>way my isp had it set up.  Having not tried it on my own machine, I don't
>know.
>
>Anyway, for what its worth, I think its cool.
>
>73,
>Chris Peterson, KG0BP
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
>To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:49 AM
>Subject: Re: mutt
>
>
> > Well, the big difference, arguably, is the license. Mutt is GPL.
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I love
>it!
> > > It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the differences
> > > between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and loved
>it.
> > > I think I'd like mutt better, though.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: mutt

[Janina Sajka]

Charley:

Mutt is included in the Redhat install.

On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:

> Where did you get Mutt from?
> 
> -- charlie.At 12:08 PM 02/02/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >Well, all I can say is that, until today, I hadn't used pine for probably
> >five years.  I also have never used mutt until today.
> >
> >So, lets just assume for the moment that I'm not an expert on either mailer,
> >which I'm not.  On a blind friendlyness scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the
> >highest and 1 is the lowest, I'd put pine at about a 4 or 5.  That is to say
> >that, it can be used, but it really is designed to be more graphical than we
> >need it to be and, while you can configure some stuff to make it better, the
> >defaults make it a little difficult.
> >
> >Mutt, on the other hand, has a brief menu of commands at the top of each
> >screen.  They don't pack enough in there to make it hard to understand; and,
> >my only regret was that I couldn't figure out how to turn that menu off.
> >The only reason I'd want to do that, by the way, is because I have to listen
> >to that menu at the beginning of any message.  Of course, there is probably
> >something that can be done to make that better, but I'm not an expert.
> >
> >Never-the-less, it was a joy to operate in the first five minutes or so,
> >which pine definetly was not.
> >
> >I'm not sure what version my isp is running, but I'll have to go and grab
> >the source code some time and have a look through it.
> >
> >Also, by default, the cursor tracks the bar in mutt, at least that is the
> >way my isp had it set up.  Having not tried it on my own machine, I don't
> >know.
> >
> >Anyway, for what its worth, I think its cool.
> >
> >73,
> >Chris Peterson, KG0BP
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:49 AM
> >Subject: Re: mutt
> >
> >
> > > Well, the big difference, arguably, is the license. Mutt is GPL.
> > >
> > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I love
> >it!
> > > > It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the differences
> > > > between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and loved
> >it.
> > > > I think I'd like mutt better, though.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: mutt

[Chris Peterson]

The man page says you can get the latest version from www.mutt.org also.  I
haven't looked there to see what the latest version is, or what they've
added/changed recently.

73,
Chris, KG0BP



----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Crawford" <CCrawford@ACB.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: mutt


> Where did you get Mutt from?
>
> -- charlie.At 12:08 PM 02/02/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >Well, all I can say is that, until today, I hadn't used pine for probably
> >five years.  I also have never used mutt until today.
> >
> >So, lets just assume for the moment that I'm not an expert on either
mailer,
> >which I'm not.  On a blind friendlyness scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the
> >highest and 1 is the lowest, I'd put pine at about a 4 or 5.  That is to
say
> >that, it can be used, but it really is designed to be more graphical than
we
> >need it to be and, while you can configure some stuff to make it better,
the
> >defaults make it a little difficult.
> >
> >Mutt, on the other hand, has a brief menu of commands at the top of each
> >screen.  They don't pack enough in there to make it hard to understand;
and,
> >my only regret was that I couldn't figure out how to turn that menu off.
> >The only reason I'd want to do that, by the way, is because I have to
listen
> >to that menu at the beginning of any message.  Of course, there is
probably
> >something that can be done to make that better, but I'm not an expert.
> >
> >Never-the-less, it was a joy to operate in the first five minutes or so,
> >which pine definetly was not.
> >
> >I'm not sure what version my isp is running, but I'll have to go and grab
> >the source code some time and have a look through it.
> >
> >Also, by default, the cursor tracks the bar in mutt, at least that is the
> >way my isp had it set up.  Having not tried it on my own machine, I don't
> >know.
> >
> >Anyway, for what its worth, I think its cool.
> >
> >73,
> >Chris Peterson, KG0BP
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:49 AM
> >Subject: Re: mutt
> >
> >
> > > Well, the big difference, arguably, is the license. Mutt is GPL.
> > >
> > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I
love
> >it!
> > > > It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the
differences
> > > > between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and
loved
> >it.
> > > > I think I'd like mutt better, though.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: mutt

[Richard Villa]

Charlie,

If you have RH7.2 or one of the current distros, it should be part of 
it.

Richard
On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:

> Where did you get Mutt from?
> 
> -- charlie.At 12:08 PM 02/02/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >Well, all I can say is that, until today, I hadn't used pine for probably
> >five years.  I also have never used mutt until today.
> >
> >So, lets just assume for the moment that I'm not an expert on either mailer,
> >which I'm not.  On a blind friendlyness scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the
> >highest and 1 is the lowest, I'd put pine at about a 4 or 5.  That is to say
> >that, it can be used, but it really is designed to be more graphical than we
> >need it to be and, while you can configure some stuff to make it better, the
> >defaults make it a little difficult.
> >
> >Mutt, on the other hand, has a brief menu of commands at the top of each
> >screen.  They don't pack enough in there to make it hard to understand; and,
> >my only regret was that I couldn't figure out how to turn that menu off.
> >The only reason I'd want to do that, by the way, is because I have to listen
> >to that menu at the beginning of any message.  Of course, there is probably
> >something that can be done to make that better, but I'm not an expert.
> >
> >Never-the-less, it was a joy to operate in the first five minutes or so,
> >which pine definetly was not.
> >
> >I'm not sure what version my isp is running, but I'll have to go and grab
> >the source code some time and have a look through it.
> >
> >Also, by default, the cursor tracks the bar in mutt, at least that is the
> >way my isp had it set up.  Having not tried it on my own machine, I don't
> >know.
> >
> >Anyway, for what its worth, I think its cool.
> >
> >73,
> >Chris Peterson, KG0BP
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:49 AM
> >Subject: Re: mutt
> >
> >
> > > Well, the big difference, arguably, is the license. Mutt is GPL.
> > >
> > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I love
> >it!
> > > > It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the differences
> > > > between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and loved
> >it.
> > > > I think I'd like mutt better, though.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: mutt

[Buddy Brannan]

OK, let's see...

PINE is not GPL, far as I can see. Basically you get source, but you
don't really have the permission to distribute modified versions.

Last I saw (as of 2000, last I looked); elm was at version 2.5PL3--it
may be further than that. Debian last distributed version 2.4PL25, but
I believe Slackware had a version 2.5-something as of 7.1. 

Oh, check that out. According to freshmeat, the latest version of elm
is elm 2.5.6. So I guess it isn't as dead as all that after all. 

Here's what Freshmeat says about where to get it:

Homepage:
   http://www.instinct.org/elm/
   Tar/GZ:
   ftp://ftp.virginia.edu/pub/elm/elm2.5.6.tar.gz
   Changelog:
   http://instinct.org/elm/files/untarred/elm2.5.6/Changes
   Mailing list archive:
   http://mailhost.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de/warc/elm-users.html
   Mirror site:
   http://instinct.org/elm/files/

BTW, I am a happy user of mutt, previously a user of elm, never
thought pine was very intuitive and just didn't like it. Could be
mostly because I'd been using elm since the beginning of time (or at
least, 1992, anyway). I have a spiffy .muttrc (thanks, Raul!) that
gets rid of the menu bar, and headers are trimmed to nearly
nothing. And with the URLview program as well, it's easy to get most
URL's extracted for viewing from inside the mailer (launching lynx or
whatever). We like mutt a whole lot...it's supplanted elm as my mailer
of choice in a *ix environment. 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3  | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
                         | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields

Re: mutt

[Chris Peterson]

Buddy,

Could you send me that .muttrc?

Thanks!
Chris



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: mutt


> OK, let's see...
> 
> PINE is not GPL, far as I can see. Basically you get source, but you
> don't really have the permission to distribute modified versions.
> 
> Last I saw (as of 2000, last I looked); elm was at version 2.5PL3--it
> may be further than that. Debian last distributed version 2.4PL25, but
> I believe Slackware had a version 2.5-something as of 7.1. 
> 
> Oh, check that out. According to freshmeat, the latest version of elm
> is elm 2.5.6. So I guess it isn't as dead as all that after all. 
> 
> Here's what Freshmeat says about where to get it:
> 
> Homepage:
>    http://www.instinct.org/elm/
>    Tar/GZ:
>    ftp://ftp.virginia.edu/pub/elm/elm2.5.6.tar.gz
>    Changelog:
>    http://instinct.org/elm/files/untarred/elm2.5.6/Changes
>    Mailing list archive:
>    http://mailhost.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de/warc/elm-users.html
>    Mirror site:
>    http://instinct.org/elm/files/
> 
> BTW, I am a happy user of mutt, previously a user of elm, never
> thought pine was very intuitive and just didn't like it. Could be
> mostly because I'd been using elm since the beginning of time (or at
> least, 1992, anyway). I have a spiffy .muttrc (thanks, Raul!) that
> gets rid of the menu bar, and headers are trimmed to nearly
> nothing. And with the URLview program as well, it's easy to get most
> URL's extracted for viewing from inside the mailer (launching lynx or
> whatever). We like mutt a whole lot...it's supplanted elm as my mailer
> of choice in a *ix environment. 
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3  | I choose you to take up all of my time.
> Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
>                          | I want easy people from now on.
>                          | --the Nields
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

Re: mutt

[Janina Sajka]

Buddy:

I've mucked around a bit in Mutt today--been meaning to for some time ...

I'm stuck on a couple of config points at the moment:

1.)	Where/how do I get rid of headers I don't want to see by default 
when I pull a message into view? In Pine there's a configuration option 
"viewer-hdrs=" which I've set to "From" so that's all I see when I view a 
message--who it's from. If I want more, the 'h' command brings up a 
display of the message headers. Can I do something similar in Mutt? The 
way it's coming up now is awfully heavy on headers I don't want to see 
generally speaking;

2.)	In Pine when I enter a message to view it, speakup just starts 
chatting. I've got my cursor tracking, of course. At the moment I have to 
press the plus key on the numeric keypad to read the screen in Mutt which 
certainly isn't as convenient or as fast. How does this work for you?

PS: I think I'd like to see your muttrc as well, if you would.


-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: email programs: was: mutt

[Cheryl Homiak]

Hi all!
Actually, one can get just a binary of Pine (and Pico) and put it on one's
system; I've had to do that because I don't know how to do whatever
modifications one has to do to compile Pine in debian.
I'm really interested to know, from somebody who has used both mutt and
pine, if mutt offers something that pine doesn't. I have used pine from
the beginning, but being the adventurous type, I'm allways considering
trying different things.
I actually do enjoy using vm once in a while too, but I think my main
enjoyment of that comes from all the auditory icons I get with it in
emacspeak.

-- 
				Cheryl

Re: mutt

[Chris Nestrud]

You can disable that menu with:
unset help # get rid of line at top of screen

The one thing I like most about mutt is its configurability. I can use
folder-hooks to have different index formats for mailing lists and
personal mail, which speeds up browsing through threads. The one thing
that I'd like to do, but haven't found a way to do, is have a key that
toggles between no headers and a set of headers. This would be doable if I could set variables within macros and query them later. I could just do
this with two keys., one per macro

Chris

On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 12:08:22PM -0600, Chris Peterson wrote:
> Well, all I can say is that, until today, I hadn't used pine for probably
> five years.  I also have never used mutt until today.
> 
> So, lets just assume for the moment that I'm not an expert on either mailer,
> which I'm not.  On a blind friendlyness scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the
> highest and 1 is the lowest, I'd put pine at about a 4 or 5.  That is to say
> that, it can be used, but it really is designed to be more graphical than we
> need it to be and, while you can configure some stuff to make it better, the
> defaults make it a little difficult.
> 
> Mutt, on the other hand, has a brief menu of commands at the top of each
> screen.  They don't pack enough in there to make it hard to understand; and,
> my only regret was that I couldn't figure out how to turn that menu off.
> The only reason I'd want to do that, by the way, is because I have to listen
> to that menu at the beginning of any message.  Of course, there is probably
> something that can be done to make that better, but I'm not an expert.
> 
> Never-the-less, it was a joy to operate in the first five minutes or so,
> which pine definetly was not.
> 
> I'm not sure what version my isp is running, but I'll have to go and grab
> the source code some time and have a look through it.
> 
> Also, by default, the cursor tracks the bar in mutt, at least that is the
> way my isp had it set up.  Having not tried it on my own machine, I don't
> know.
> 
> Anyway, for what its worth, I think its cool.
> 
> 73,
> Chris Peterson, KG0BP
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:49 AM
> Subject: Re: mutt
> 
> 
> > Well, the big difference, arguably, is the license. Mutt is GPL.
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I love
> it!
> > > It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the differences
> > > between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and loved
> it.
> > > I think I'd like mutt better, though.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: mutt

[Chris Nestrud]

On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 07:23:37PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> 1.)	Where/how do I get rid of headers I don't want to see by default 
> when I pull a message into view? In Pine there's a configuration option 
> "viewer-hdrs=" which I've set to "From" so that's all I see when I view a 
> message--who it's from. If I want more, the 'h' command brings up a 
> display of the message headers. Can I do something similar in Mutt? The 
> way it's coming up now is awfully heavy on headers I don't want to see 
> generally speaking;

In mutt, you can ignore all headers and unignore the ones you'd like to
see, or ignore certain headers and have the rest unignored by default.
Here's what I have, which ignores all headers, unignores a few, and
specifies the display order.

# message headers
# show the headers I wish to see
ignore *
unignore From: date to cc subject
# and sort them too.
hdr_order Date From: To: Reply-To: Cc: Bcc: Subject:

> 2.)	In Pine when I enter a message to view it, speakup just starts 
> chatting. I've got my cursor tracking, of course. At the moment I have to 
> press the plus key on the numeric keypad to read the screen in Mutt which 
> certainly isn't as convenient or as fast. How does this work for you?

I don't quite follow. With the top line of help disabled, the message is
read immediately.

Chris

Re: email programs: was: mutt

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Cheryl:

I can't tell you a lot about what's so cool with mutt as I have hardly 
looked at it. But, I did note a lot of support for message signing and 
encryption via pgp. That's certainly cool if you're communicating delicate 
information. Frankly, I expect it's pretty helpful in a business where the 
employer technically owns all your mail, if yhou get my drift.

As for audio icons with vm -- long live the audio desktop. Something 
similar can be cooked up with procmail, though. I have mine set to play 
different sounds on different system events. A message from my sweetheart 
plays a soft tweet-tweet, another sound marks company mail (based on the 
domain name), etc., etc. It's fairly straight forward to set up, too.

 On Sat, 2 
Feb 2002, Cheryl Homiak wrote:

> Hi all!
> Actually, one can get just a binary of Pine (and Pico) and put it on one's
> system; I've had to do that because I don't know how to do whatever
> modifications one has to do to compile Pine in debian.
> I'm really interested to know, from somebody who has used both mutt and
> pine, if mutt offers something that pine doesn't. I have used pine from
> the beginning, but being the adventurous type, I'm allways considering
> trying different things.
> I actually do enjoy using vm once in a while too, but I think my main
> enjoyment of that comes from all the auditory icons I get with it in
> emacspeak.
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: mutt

[Gregory Nowak]

Mutt should come with your distribution. If not, you can get at least the source from:
http://freshmeat.net
. Just search for "mutt" on that sight.
Greg


On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 03:13:30PM -0500, Charles Crawford wrote:
> Where did you get Mutt from?
> 
> -- charlie.At 12:08 PM 02/02/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >Well, all I can say is that, until today, I hadn't used pine for probably
> >five years.  I also have never used mutt until today.
> >
> >So, lets just assume for the moment that I'm not an expert on either mailer,
> >which I'm not.  On a blind friendlyness scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the
> >highest and 1 is the lowest, I'd put pine at about a 4 or 5.  That is to say
> >that, it can be used, but it really is designed to be more graphical than we
> >need it to be and, while you can configure some stuff to make it better, the
> >defaults make it a little difficult.
> >
> >Mutt, on the other hand, has a brief menu of commands at the top of each
> >screen.  They don't pack enough in there to make it hard to understand; and,
> >my only regret was that I couldn't figure out how to turn that menu off.
> >The only reason I'd want to do that, by the way, is because I have to listen
> >to that menu at the beginning of any message.  Of course, there is probably
> >something that can be done to make that better, but I'm not an expert.
> >
> >Never-the-less, it was a joy to operate in the first five minutes or so,
> >which pine definetly was not.
> >
> >I'm not sure what version my isp is running, but I'll have to go and grab
> >the source code some time and have a look through it.
> >
> >Also, by default, the cursor tracks the bar in mutt, at least that is the
> >way my isp had it set up.  Having not tried it on my own machine, I don't
> >know.
> >
> >Anyway, for what its worth, I think its cool.
> >
> >73,
> >Chris Peterson, KG0BP
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:49 AM
> >Subject: Re: mutt
> >
> >
> > > Well, the big difference, arguably, is the license. Mutt is GPL.
> > >
> > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I love
> >it!
> > > > It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the differences
> > > > between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and loved
> >it.
> > > > I think I'd like mutt better, though.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: mutt

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Chris:

On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Chris Nestrud wrote:

> In mutt, you can ignore all headers and unignore the ones you'd like to
> see, or ignore certain headers and have the rest unignored by default.
> Here's what I have, which ignores all headers, unignores a few, and
> specifies the display order.
> 
Yes, yes ... but where in my .muttrc do I put this? Does it matter? I ask 
because .muttrc appears divided up by functional sections.

> # message headers
> # show the headers I wish to see
> ignore *
> unignore From: date to cc subject
> # and sort them too.
> hdr_order Date From: To: Reply-To: Cc: Bcc: Subject:
> 
> > 2.)	In Pine when I enter a message to view it, speakup just starts 
> > chatting. I've got my cursor tracking, of course. At the moment I have to 
> > press the plus key on the numeric keypad to read the screen in Mutt which 
> > certainly isn't as convenient or as fast. How does this work for you?
> 
> I don't quite follow. With the top line of help disabled, the message is
> read immediately.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: mutt

[Chris Nestrud]

On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 09:46:21PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Yes, yes ... but where in my .muttrc do I put this? Does it matter? I ask 
> because .muttrc appears divided up by functional sections.
You can organize your .muttrc however you wish. It's probably good to
keep related items nearby, but the order is up to you.

Chris

Re: mutt

[Gregory Nowak]

Just put them anywhere you want in your .muttrc. I have them at the top of mine.
Greg


On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 09:46:21PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Hi, Chris:
> 
> On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Chris Nestrud wrote:
> 
> > In mutt, you can ignore all headers and unignore the ones you'd like to
> > see, or ignore certain headers and have the rest unignored by default.
> > Here's what I have, which ignores all headers, unignores a few, and
> > specifies the display order.
> > 
> Yes, yes ... but where in my .muttrc do I put this? Does it matter? I ask 
> because .muttrc appears divided up by functional sections.
> 
> > # message headers
> > # show the headers I wish to see
> > ignore *
> > unignore From: date to cc subject
> > # and sort them too.
> > hdr_order Date From: To: Reply-To: Cc: Bcc: Subject:
> > 
> > > 2.)	In Pine when I enter a message to view it, speakup just starts 
> > > chatting. I've got my cursor tracking, of course. At the moment I have to 
> > > press the plus key on the numeric keypad to read the screen in Mutt which 
> > > certainly isn't as convenient or as fast. How does this work for you?
> > 
> > I don't quite follow. With the top line of help disabled, the message is
> > read immediately.
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: mutt

[Kerry Hoath]

With a note to the affect that the order of
hooks such as send-hook is important since the first matching hook takes
precidents.
On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 09:15:46PM -0600, Chris Nestrud wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 09:46:21PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Yes, yes ... but where in my .muttrc do I put this? Does it matter? I ask 
> > because .muttrc appears divided up by functional sections.
> You can organize your .muttrc however you wish. It's probably good to
> keep related items nearby, but the order is up to you.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

Re: mutt

[charles crawford]

Janina,

	Thanks.  The problem is when I try to run Mutt by typing mutt at
the command line, I get nothing.  Is there something else i should be
doing?

-- charlie.

On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Charley:
>
> Mutt is included in the Redhat install.
>
> On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:
>
> > Where did you get Mutt from?
> >
> > -- charlie.At 12:08 PM 02/02/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> > >Well, all I can say is that, until today, I hadn't used pine for probably
> > >five years.  I also have never used mutt until today.
> > >
> > >So, lets just assume for the moment that I'm not an expert on either mailer,
> > >which I'm not.  On a blind friendlyness scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the
> > >highest and 1 is the lowest, I'd put pine at about a 4 or 5.  That is to say
> > >that, it can be used, but it really is designed to be more graphical than we
> > >need it to be and, while you can configure some stuff to make it better, the
> > >defaults make it a little difficult.
> > >
> > >Mutt, on the other hand, has a brief menu of commands at the top of each
> > >screen.  They don't pack enough in there to make it hard to understand; and,
> > >my only regret was that I couldn't figure out how to turn that menu off.
> > >The only reason I'd want to do that, by the way, is because I have to listen
> > >to that menu at the beginning of any message.  Of course, there is probably
> > >something that can be done to make that better, but I'm not an expert.
> > >
> > >Never-the-less, it was a joy to operate in the first five minutes or so,
> > >which pine definetly was not.
> > >
> > >I'm not sure what version my isp is running, but I'll have to go and grab
> > >the source code some time and have a look through it.
> > >
> > >Also, by default, the cursor tracks the bar in mutt, at least that is the
> > >way my isp had it set up.  Having not tried it on my own machine, I don't
> > >know.
> > >
> > >Anyway, for what its worth, I think its cool.
> > >
> > >73,
> > >Chris Peterson, KG0BP
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:49 AM
> > >Subject: Re: mutt
> > >
> > >
> > > > Well, the big difference, arguably, is the license. Mutt is GPL.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I love
> > >it!
> > > > > It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the differences
> > > > > between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and loved
> > >it.
> > > > > I think I'd like mutt better, though.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Speakup mailing list
> > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>

Re: mutt

[Janina Sajka]

Charley:

First, let's be sure it's actually installed. Do:

which mutt

If it tells you it's there, it's a configuration issue. If it isn't there, 
then find the correct CD ROM and do rpm -iv mutt*

On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, charles crawford wrote:

> Janina,
> 
> 	Thanks.  The problem is when I try to run Mutt by typing mutt at
> the command line, I get nothing.  Is there something else i should be
> doing?
> 
> -- charlie.
> 
> On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > Charley:
> >
> > Mutt is included in the Redhat install.
> >
> > On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:
> >
> > > Where did you get Mutt from?
> > >
> > > -- charlie.At 12:08 PM 02/02/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> > > >Well, all I can say is that, until today, I hadn't used pine for probably
> > > >five years.  I also have never used mutt until today.
> > > >
> > > >So, lets just assume for the moment that I'm not an expert on either mailer,
> > > >which I'm not.  On a blind friendlyness scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the
> > > >highest and 1 is the lowest, I'd put pine at about a 4 or 5.  That is to say
> > > >that, it can be used, but it really is designed to be more graphical than we
> > > >need it to be and, while you can configure some stuff to make it better, the
> > > >defaults make it a little difficult.
> > > >
> > > >Mutt, on the other hand, has a brief menu of commands at the top of each
> > > >screen.  They don't pack enough in there to make it hard to understand; and,
> > > >my only regret was that I couldn't figure out how to turn that menu off.
> > > >The only reason I'd want to do that, by the way, is because I have to listen
> > > >to that menu at the beginning of any message.  Of course, there is probably
> > > >something that can be done to make that better, but I'm not an expert.
> > > >
> > > >Never-the-less, it was a joy to operate in the first five minutes or so,
> > > >which pine definetly was not.
> > > >
> > > >I'm not sure what version my isp is running, but I'll have to go and grab
> > > >the source code some time and have a look through it.
> > > >
> > > >Also, by default, the cursor tracks the bar in mutt, at least that is the
> > > >way my isp had it set up.  Having not tried it on my own machine, I don't
> > > >know.
> > > >
> > > >Anyway, for what its worth, I think its cool.
> > > >
> > > >73,
> > > >Chris Peterson, KG0BP
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > > >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:49 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: mutt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Well, the big difference, arguably, is the license. Mutt is GPL.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just got through with playing with mutt for the first time.  I love
> > > >it!
> > > > > > It seems so much better than pine.  Can anyone point out the differences
> > > > > > between pine and mutt?  Anyone use elm?  I used that for years and loved
> > > >it.
> > > > > > I think I'd like mutt better, though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > >
> > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > >
> > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Speakup mailing list
> > > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

mutt

[Alex Snow]

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How do I get mutt to recognise my full domain? currently it only seems to use my hostname which causes problems.  I tried setting my fqdn using the hostname variable in my ~/.muttrc and the systemwide /etc/Muttrc.

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