Feisty SpeakUp

Feisty SpeakUp

[Henrik Nilsen Omma]

Hello,

I'd like to ask for some input on a spec I'm doing for the next version 
of Ubuntu. We currently have speakup in the kernel but it's very far 
from Just Works. See: 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/FeistySpeakup

I guess I first have to ask what the common use cases are. Is speakup 
largely used by system admins and developers working from the CLI? Is it 
valuable to have a Live CD that boots to the CLI with speakup? We 
currently don't have CLI Live CD AFAIK.
 
The possible areas I could imagine improving usability are:

 * Server edition -- Currently has the speakup module, but not simple 
way to install or run live
 * The debian installer -- currently used on the alternate and server CDs
 * spoken boot -- have all the boot messages read out as you boot
 * Standard CLI, simple launch -- For those who prefer gnome it may be 
difficult to recover when X fails. It should be trivial to launch 
speakup in such cases: 'start-speakup'. An introduction with basic 
operating instructions should be read out.
 * anything else?


Another point I want to emphasise is that if we do this it would be in 
the main Ubuntu distribution, not a special derivative. It is not just 
intended for advanced computer users, but beginners as well. The 
features should then also get picked up by Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Mephis, etc.


Henrik

Re: Feisty SpeakUp

[Willem van der Walt]

Adding speakup so that it talks out of the vertual box would be good.
For a live cd, I would suggest espeak as the synth because of its small 
size.
See www.oralux.org
You might save some work may be.


On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to ask for some input on a spec I'm doing for the next version 
> of Ubuntu. We currently have speakup in the kernel but it's very far 
> from Just Works. See: 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/FeistySpeakup
> 
> I guess I first have to ask what the common use cases are. Is speakup 
> largely used by system admins and developers working from the CLI? Is it 
> valuable to have a Live CD that boots to the CLI with speakup? We 
> currently don't have CLI Live CD AFAIK.
>  
> The possible areas I could imagine improving usability are:
> 
>  * Server edition -- Currently has the speakup module, but not simple 
> way to install or run live
>  * The debian installer -- currently used on the alternate and server CDs
>  * spoken boot -- have all the boot messages read out as you boot
>  * Standard CLI, simple launch -- For those who prefer gnome it may be 
> difficult to recover when X fails. It should be trivial to launch 
> speakup in such cases: 'start-speakup'. An introduction with basic 
> operating instructions should be read out.
>  * anything else?
> 
> 
> Another point I want to emphasise is that if we do this it would be in 
> the main Ubuntu distribution, not a special derivative. It is not just 
> intended for advanced computer users, but beginners as well. The 
> features should then also get picked up by Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Mephis, etc.
> 
> 
> Henrik
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

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RE: Feisty SpeakUp

[Scott Ford]

Hello,
	I am far from a sysadmin, or server administrator.  However I would
really love to have a live or extremely simple way to run speakup, like I
use grml currently.  I think that by making it simple more of the less
adventurous blind community may venture into the Linux land.  I am really
happy to se a version that has speaking version of gknome running on a live
cd.
Scott  


-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Henrik Nilsen Omma
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 7:05 AM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Feisty SpeakUp

Hello,

I'd like to ask for some input on a spec I'm doing for the next version 
of Ubuntu. We currently have speakup in the kernel but it's very far 
from Just Works. See: 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/FeistySpeakup

I guess I first have to ask what the common use cases are. Is speakup 
largely used by system admins and developers working from the CLI? Is it 
valuable to have a Live CD that boots to the CLI with speakup? We 
currently don't have CLI Live CD AFAIK.
 
The possible areas I could imagine improving usability are:

 * Server edition -- Currently has the speakup module, but not simple 
way to install or run live
 * The debian installer -- currently used on the alternate and server CDs
 * spoken boot -- have all the boot messages read out as you boot
 * Standard CLI, simple launch -- For those who prefer gnome it may be 
difficult to recover when X fails. It should be trivial to launch 
speakup in such cases: 'start-speakup'. An introduction with basic 
operating instructions should be read out.
 * anything else?


Another point I want to emphasise is that if we do this it would be in 
the main Ubuntu distribution, not a special derivative. It is not just 
intended for advanced computer users, but beginners as well. The 
features should then also get picked up by Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Mephis, etc.


Henrik

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


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Re: Feisty SpeakUp

[John Heim]

I'm not sure what CLI is. Console log in?

I do systems support and programming for the Math Department at the U of 
Wisconsin. And I use speakup every day for just about everything you can do 
on a computer -- mail, web browsing, homework assignments. I even listen to 
music on my laptop.  I have a hardware synth that connects to the serial 
port so if i need to log into the console of a server, I can do that. Also, 
I use a live CD pretty regularly to do installs and rescues.  I always use 
the machine in character mode, never the GUI. I haven't even tried orca or 
gnopernicus because everything I do can be done in character mode.

A couple of things I would like:
1. To be able to easily recreate the iso image with customized boot 
parameters. This would allow me to make a live CD that "knows" that i have a 
hardware synth connected to ttyS0. No need to type in cheat codes at the 
boot prompt.

This is more than mere convenience. When a machine is down and the user (or 
my boss) is watching me boot it, it would be nice to not have to worry about 
missing the boot prompt or typing the cheat codes wrong

2. I'd like the live CD to start software speech automatically if no 
hardware synth has been specified at boot time. I think you could do this by 
checking the contents of /proc/speakup/synth_name and if it's 'none', then 
load software speech.  What I'm imagining  is that if a user goes into 
character mode, the machine starts talking. Speakup doesn't work in the GUI 
so if you press Ctrl+Alt+F2, you get a character console. Then it talks. 
That's the way my machines already work and I didn't have to do anything 
special.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Henrik Nilsen Omma" <henrik@ubuntu.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Feisty SpeakUp


> Hello,
>
> I'd like to ask for some input on a spec I'm doing for the next version
> of Ubuntu. We currently have speakup in the kernel but it's very far
> from Just Works. See:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/FeistySpeakup
>
> I guess I first have to ask what the common use cases are. Is speakup
> largely used by system admins and developers working from the CLI? Is it
> valuable to have a Live CD that boots to the CLI with speakup? We
> currently don't have CLI Live CD AFAIK.
>
> The possible areas I could imagine improving usability are:
>
> * Server edition -- Currently has the speakup module, but not simple
> way to install or run live
> * The debian installer -- currently used on the alternate and server CDs
> * spoken boot -- have all the boot messages read out as you boot
> * Standard CLI, simple launch -- For those who prefer gnome it may be
> difficult to recover when X fails. It should be trivial to launch
> speakup in such cases: 'start-speakup'. An introduction with basic
> operating instructions should be read out.
> * anything else?
>
>
> Another point I want to emphasise is that if we do this it would be in
> the main Ubuntu distribution, not a special derivative. It is not just
> intended for advanced computer users, but beginners as well. The
> features should then also get picked up by Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Mephis, etc.
>
>
> Henrik
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> 

Re: Feisty SpeakUp

[Henrik Nilsen Omma]

Hi John,

Thanks for your feedback. CLI is 'Command Line Interface', sorry.

We are working on making it easier to customise the Live CD. Here bare 
some instructions for the moment: 
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization

However, I would like to see if we could cover your points 1 and 2 with 
the standard Ubuntu Live CD so everyone can benefit. All the required 
modules are on it already.

This would not make the CD start automatically in that mode but would 
make it very easy to start it. All Ubuntu Live CDs have a boot menu with 
an accessibility option. You press F5 after the CD has booted (takes 
about 5-10 seconds, the CD spins up and down again -- we should also add 
a beep at this stage) and then you press a number -- 3 for screen reader.

For Feisty we are planning to add better braille support (see: 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/BrailleSupport) and I could 
imagine adding support for hardware synths through the same infrastructure.

Basically you would insert the CD, wait for a beep, press F5, 6, Enter 
to boot, wait for another beep, h for HW synth,  0 for ttyS0 and that 
should be it. That's not fully automatic but it should be quite easy to 
get right and would work on bog standard CDs.

We could also make speakup work in character mode as you suggest. If you 
press Ctrl-Alt-F2 on a live CD AND it was booted with F5+3 (or 6) then 
it would speak directly. This would also be useful for those who mostly 
use gnome+orca.

Henrik

John Heim wrote:
> I'm not sure what CLI is. Console log in?
>
> I do systems support and programming for the Math Department at the U of 
> Wisconsin. And I use speakup every day for just about everything you can do 
> on a computer -- mail, web browsing, homework assignments. I even listen to 
> music on my laptop.  I have a hardware synth that connects to the serial 
> port so if i need to log into the console of a server, I can do that. Also, 
> I use a live CD pretty regularly to do installs and rescues.  I always use 
> the machine in character mode, never the GUI. I haven't even tried orca or 
> gnopernicus because everything I do can be done in character mode.
>
> A couple of things I would like:
> 1. To be able to easily recreate the iso image with customized boot 
> parameters. This would allow me to make a live CD that "knows" that i have a 
> hardware synth connected to ttyS0. No need to type in cheat codes at the 
> boot prompt.
>
> This is more than mere convenience. When a machine is down and the user (or 
> my boss) is watching me boot it, it would be nice to not have to worry about 
> missing the boot prompt or typing the cheat codes wrong
>
> 2. I'd like the live CD to start software speech automatically if no 
> hardware synth has been specified at boot time. I think you could do this by 
> checking the contents of /proc/speakup/synth_name and if it's 'none', then 
> load software speech.  What I'm imagining  is that if a user goes into 
> character mode, the machine starts talking. Speakup doesn't work in the GUI 
> so if you press Ctrl+Alt+F2, you get a character console. Then it talks. 
> That's the way my machines already work and I didn't have to do anything 
> special.
>
>   

Re: Feisty SpeakUp

[Marcel Oats]

So, is this for the 6.1 build?
All your suggestions are good ones.  I personally would like to have 
the boot menus read out, but there's no way you could do this.  You 
could have minimle hardware synth support, but the amount of code 
needed might get excessive.
At 03:05 Ay M 28/10/2006, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I'd like to ask for some input on a spec I'm doing for the next version
>of Ubuntu. We currently have speakup in the kernel but it's very far
>from Just Works. See:
>https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/FeistySpeakup
>
>I guess I first have to ask what the common use cases are. Is speakup
>largely used by system admins and developers working from the CLI? Is it
>valuable to have a Live CD that boots to the CLI with speakup? We
>currently don't have CLI Live CD AFAIK.
>
>The possible areas I could imagine improving usability are:
>
>  * Server edition -- Currently has the speakup module, but not simple
>way to install or run live
>  * The debian installer -- currently used on the alternate and server CDs
>  * spoken boot -- have all the boot messages read out as you boot
>  * Standard CLI, simple launch -- For those who prefer gnome it may be
>difficult to recover when X fails. It should be trivial to launch
>speakup in such cases: 'start-speakup'. An introduction with basic
>operating instructions should be read out.
>  * anything else?
>
>
>Another point I want to emphasise is that if we do this it would be in
>the main Ubuntu distribution, not a special derivative. It is not just
>intended for advanced computer users, but beginners as well. The
>features should then also get picked up by Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Mephis, etc.
>
>
>Henrik
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Feisty SpeakUp

[Gene Collins]

Hi, I suggest you try reading the Speakup Users Guide at
http://www.linux-speakup.org. It contains many helpful hints for
starting speakup at boot-up and loading modules. 

HTH,
Gene

re: feisty speakup

[Jude DaShiell]

speakup gets you into all of the places orca and lsr and gnopernicus can't 
go because they're console interfaces.  It might be run by default 
whenever an xterm window opened up to speak the content in that window 
too.  The general use case for most on the speakup mailing list and the 
blinux-list is that speakup runs in the console environment when x in any 
of its forms isn't going to run or hasn't been started yet.  With a 
text-based installer that didn't use X to operate, speakup could probably 
work to install ubuntu onto many more systems or failing that make it 
possible for ubuntu to get bug reports back when installs fail maybe some 
text equivalent of bug-buddy that could do its work with a working 
internet connections and a few questions for the user.  I wonder does that 
bug-buddy have facility to add say a typescript file as part of the bug 
report as an attachment to a report that's about to be sent?  If so, 
developers could get a blow by blow account of what happened to reproduce 
the failure; along with other relevant system information perhaps captured 
by something like discover.