Which distribution?

Which distribution?

[Steven M. Sawczyn]

Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to which Linux
distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.

Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the menus extremely
difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a text-based
install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder than it needed
to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but have never
used it myself and am not sure what the installation process is like.  

Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.  

Thanks,

Steve

RE: Which distribution?

[Darragh]

I am by no means experienced in Linux matters but I've installed red hat
more times than I'd care to recall!  If you want speakup during the install
you should probably try version 8.  when the install screen first executes
you are taken to a command prompt.  there you can type text
speakup_synth=your synth where your synth is the synth that you are planning
to use.  that way you will be taken into the text mode install with speakup
loded.  unfortunately though, the first few times I installed red hat I
found the menu navigation a night mare  because it announces every new menu
item and button after announcing the previous control.  This may have been
fixed in one of the latest releases though but I cant say for certain.

What I can say though is, the people on this list were vital to my attempts
in setting up red hat and when I start again in three or four weeks to try
tackeling the configuration of this linux box again I know that lists such
as this one will be one of the most important sources of information.

Hope that helps

Darragh
P.S.  I do have to say again, I am in no way an advanced user of Linux but
they are my experiences.

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Steven M. Sawczyn
Sent: 28 April 2003 22:58
To: Speakup
Subject: Which distribution?


Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to which Linux
distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.

Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the menus extremely
difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a text-based
install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder than it needed
to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but have never
used it myself and am not sure what the installation process is like.

Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Which distribution?

[Lorenzo Prince]

>From what I've seen, Slackware is probably the easiest to install with
Speakup.  It has a Speakup kernel already on the CD, and the menus are
easy to navigate.  You just get fiewer apps, but more apps can be
downloaded from places like sourceforge.net, and some of the configuration
is less automated than Redhat.  The problem you had with the Redhat menu
interface is that they use starrs * to indicate that a particular option
in the menu is checked, and the punctuation level is set too low to pick
them up and actually read them.  Slackware's installer uses x's, so
speakup picks them up really easily.  Debian has the most apps, as far as
I know, but Speakup doesn't install from the CD's.  I have gotten by just
fine using Slackware with Speakup and just downloading the apps I need.

Lorenzo

panic("Foooooooood fight!");
	-- In the kernel source aha1542.c, after detecting a bad segment list

Steven M. Sawczyn staggered into view and mumbled:

> Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to which Linux
> distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
> want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.
>
> Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the menus extremely
> difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a text-based
> install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder than it needed
> to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but have never
> used it myself and am not sure what the installation process is like.
>
> Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

RE: Which distribution?

[Steven M. Sawczyn]

Greetings and thanks to everyone who has replied to my message, I
appreciate the responses.  I haven't used Slackware since Kernel version
1.3.2, so I'm basically learning everything from scratch.  Way way back
then, gosh that seems like a long time ago, there was a text-based
installation script which prompted me to install each package, none of
this menu-based stuff.

Perhaps someone could point me in the direction of a good,
easy-to-understand comparison of the various Linux distributions out
there?  Essentially, I'm needing all the help I can get  -- I used
Slackware way back when, but now Red Hat seems to be the more popular
distribution.  Unfortunately, Emacspeak doesn't seem to be supported on
Slackware, so am not sure how easy that'll be to get up and running once
I get that far.

Again, thanks for all help.

Steve

starting the learning process

> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca 
> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Lorenzo Prince
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 9:39 PM
> To: Speakup
> Subject: Re: Which distribution?
> 
> 
> From what I've seen, Slackware is probably the easiest to install with
> Speakup.  It has a Speakup kernel already on the CD, and the menus are
> easy to navigate.  You just get fiewer apps, but more apps can be
> downloaded from places like sourceforge.net, and some of the 
> configuration
> is less automated than Redhat.  The problem you had with the 
> Redhat menu
> interface is that they use starrs * to indicate that a 
> particular option
> in the menu is checked, and the punctuation level is set too 
> low to pick
> them up and actually read them.  Slackware's installer uses x's, so
> speakup picks them up really easily.  Debian has the most 
> apps, as far as
> I know, but Speakup doesn't install from the CD's.  I have 
> gotten by just
> fine using Slackware with Speakup and just downloading the 
> apps I need.
> 
> Lorenzo
> 
> panic("Foooooooood fight!");
> 	-- In the kernel source aha1542.c, after detecting a 
> bad segment list
> 
> Steven M. Sawczyn staggered into view and mumbled:
> 
> > Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to 
> which Linux
> > distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
> > want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.
> >
> > Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the 
> menus extremely
> > difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a 
> text-based
> > install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder 
> than it needed
> > to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but 
> have never
> > used it myself and am not sure what the installation 
> process is like.
> >
> > Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

RE: Which distribution?

[Lorenzo Prince]

Emacspeak is available as a Slackware package from the Slackware extra
tree, but it is an older version.  You can find Redhat packages and source
code from the emacspeak web site.  Of course, the source code should run
on any distribution.

Lorenzo

We are MicroSoft.  You will be assimilated.  Resistance is futile.
	-- Attributed to B.G., Gill Bates

Steven M. Sawczyn staggered into view and mumbled:

> Greetings and thanks to everyone who has replied to my message, I
> appreciate the responses.  I haven't used Slackware since Kernel version
> 1.3.2, so I'm basically learning everything from scratch.  Way way back
> then, gosh that seems like a long time ago, there was a text-based
> installation script which prompted me to install each package, none of
> this menu-based stuff.
>
> Perhaps someone could point me in the direction of a good,
> easy-to-understand comparison of the various Linux distributions out
> there?  Essentially, I'm needing all the help I can get  -- I used
> Slackware way back when, but now Red Hat seems to be the more popular
> distribution.  Unfortunately, Emacspeak doesn't seem to be supported on
> Slackware, so am not sure how easy that'll be to get up and running once
> I get that far.
>
> Again, thanks for all help.
>
> Steve
>
> starting the learning process
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
> > [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Lorenzo Prince
> > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 9:39 PM
> > To: Speakup
> > Subject: Re: Which distribution?
> >
> >
> > From what I've seen, Slackware is probably the easiest to install with
> > Speakup.  It has a Speakup kernel already on the CD, and the menus are
> > easy to navigate.  You just get fiewer apps, but more apps can be
> > downloaded from places like sourceforge.net, and some of the
> > configuration
> > is less automated than Redhat.  The problem you had with the
> > Redhat menu
> > interface is that they use starrs * to indicate that a
> > particular option
> > in the menu is checked, and the punctuation level is set too
> > low to pick
> > them up and actually read them.  Slackware's installer uses x's, so
> > speakup picks them up really easily.  Debian has the most
> > apps, as far as
> > I know, but Speakup doesn't install from the CD's.  I have
> > gotten by just
> > fine using Slackware with Speakup and just downloading the
> > apps I need.
> >
> > Lorenzo
> >
> > panic("Foooooooood fight!");
> > 	-- In the kernel source aha1542.c, after detecting a
> > bad segment list
> >
> > Steven M. Sawczyn staggered into view and mumbled:
> >
> > > Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to
> > which Linux
> > > distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
> > > want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.
> > >
> > > Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the
> > menus extremely
> > > difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a
> > text-based
> > > install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder
> > than it needed
> > > to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but
> > have never
> > > used it myself and am not sure what the installation
> > process is like.
> > >
> > > Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

RE: Which distribution?

[Travis Siegel]

I use speakup on slackware, and it works just fine.  In fact, slackware
8.1 has a speakup startup disk that ships with it by default.  And, yes,
the text-based install script is still there, and works just fine, I used
it several times over the last couple years to install many machines.

RE: Which distribution?

[Saqib Shaikh]

I'm sure people here will gie you all the help you'll need.

Emacspeak on Slackware won't be a problem, when you get to that point.
Slackware comes with version 16.0, but version 18.0 is going to be released
in the next week or so - you can either compile it from source or I (or
someone else) can make you a Slackware package.

Saqib


-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Steven M. Sawczyn
Sent: 29 April 2003 03:24
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: RE: Which distribution?


Greetings and thanks to everyone who has replied to my message, I
appreciate the responses.  I haven't used Slackware since Kernel version
1.3.2, so I'm basically learning everything from scratch.  Way way back
then, gosh that seems like a long time ago, there was a text-based
installation script which prompted me to install each package, none of
this menu-based stuff.

Perhaps someone could point me in the direction of a good,
easy-to-understand comparison of the various Linux distributions out
there?  Essentially, I'm needing all the help I can get  -- I used
Slackware way back when, but now Red Hat seems to be the more popular
distribution.  Unfortunately, Emacspeak doesn't seem to be supported on
Slackware, so am not sure how easy that'll be to get up and running once
I get that far.

Again, thanks for all help.

Steve

starting the learning process

> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Lorenzo Prince
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 9:39 PM
> To: Speakup
> Subject: Re: Which distribution?
>
>
> From what I've seen, Slackware is probably the easiest to install with
> Speakup.  It has a Speakup kernel already on the CD, and the menus are
> easy to navigate.  You just get fiewer apps, but more apps can be
> downloaded from places like sourceforge.net, and some of the
> configuration
> is less automated than Redhat.  The problem you had with the
> Redhat menu
> interface is that they use starrs * to indicate that a
> particular option
> in the menu is checked, and the punctuation level is set too
> low to pick
> them up and actually read them.  Slackware's installer uses x's, so
> speakup picks them up really easily.  Debian has the most
> apps, as far as
> I know, but Speakup doesn't install from the CD's.  I have
> gotten by just
> fine using Slackware with Speakup and just downloading the
> apps I need.
>
> Lorenzo
>
> panic("Foooooooood fight!");
> 	-- In the kernel source aha1542.c, after detecting a
> bad segment list
>
> Steven M. Sawczyn staggered into view and mumbled:
>
> > Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to
> which Linux
> > distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
> > want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.
> >
> > Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the
> menus extremely
> > difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a
> text-based
> > install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder
> than it needed
> > to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but
> have never
> > used it myself and am not sure what the installation
> process is like.
> >
> > Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: Which distribution?

[Doug]

Steve,

 > Emacspeak doesn't seem to be supported on Slackware

Emacspeak is in the extras directory

ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-current/extra/emacspeak-16.0/
ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-current/extra/emacspeak-ss-1.9.1/

It also builds easily from the source tarball on slackware.
It's tricky to get it working with ViaVoice though.

   -- Doug

Re: Which distribution?

[Thomas D. Ward]

Hi, Red Hat does have a text install. You type a command like:

text speakup_synth=synth

where synth is the name of your synth.
The problem most have is they must absolutely select the speakup keymap
during the install or the install will not talk vary well at all.
As for what Linux is best that ends up a users choice. Red Hat is vary
popular because it has good hardware detection, is the easiest Linux to
setup, has a large list of packages, and is becoming an industry standard.
However, some users love editing files, getting into the guts of there Linux
os, Debian  and Slakware seam to apeal to those users.
If you are like me and don't want to customize everything under the sun Red
hat will apeal to you. If you are one who likes to do everything from the
ground up, edit configurations, and customize to your hearts  desire, then
debian or Slack may be a better choice.

----- Original Message -----
From: Steven M. Sawczyn <ssawczyn@email.com>
To: Speakup <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 5:58 PM
Subject: Which distribution?


> Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to which Linux
> distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
> want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.
>
> Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the menus extremely
> difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a text-based
> install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder than it needed
> to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but have never
> used it myself and am not sure what the installation process is like.
>
> Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: Which distribution?

[Steven M. Sawczyn]

I'd like to thank you and everyone who has replied to my post.  One
aspect of Debian which appealed to me was its ability to auto-download
packages as needed.  Is this a feature specific to Debian, or can
Slackware and/or redhat do the same thing?  Would it be just as easy to
search for packages when I actually need them?  Can anyone compare the
installation of Debian to that of Slackware?

Again, thanks for all help,

Steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca 
> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Thomas D. Ward
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:41 AM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: Which distribution?
> 
> 
> Hi, Red Hat does have a text install. You type a command like:
> 
> text speakup_synth=synth
> 
> where synth is the name of your synth.
> The problem most have is they must absolutely select the 
> speakup keymap
> during the install or the install will not talk vary well at all.
> As for what Linux is best that ends up a users choice. Red Hat is vary
> popular because it has good hardware detection, is the 
> easiest Linux to
> setup, has a large list of packages, and is becoming an 
> industry standard.
> However, some users love editing files, getting into the guts 
> of there Linux
> os, Debian  and Slakware seam to apeal to those users.
> If you are like me and don't want to customize everything 
> under the sun Red
> hat will apeal to you. If you are one who likes to do 
> everything from the
> ground up, edit configurations, and customize to your hearts  
> desire, then
> debian or Slack may be a better choice.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steven M. Sawczyn <ssawczyn@email.com>
> To: Speakup <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 5:58 PM
> Subject: Which distribution?
> 
> 
> > Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to 
> which Linux
> > distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
> > want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.
> >
> > Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the 
> menus extremely
> > difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a 
> text-based
> > install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder 
> than it needed
> > to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but 
> have never
> > used it myself and am not sure what the installation 
> process is like.
> >
> > Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

RE: Which distribution?

[Patrick Turnage]

Hello
I replied to your message but the mailing limit caught me.. it was 5539
characters.. Kirk couldn't you make it something larger like 10K or if you
can't make it 10 maybe 7 or 8..
Patrick
At 22:17 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>I'd like to thank you and everyone who has replied to my post.  One
>aspect of Debian which appealed to me was its ability to auto-download
>packages as needed.  Is this a feature specific to Debian, or can
>Slackware and/or redhat do the same thing?  Would it be just as easy to
>search for packages when I actually need them?  Can anyone compare the
>installation of Debian to that of Slackware?
>
>Again, thanks for all help,
>
>Steve
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca 
>> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Thomas D. Ward
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:41 AM
>> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> Subject: Re: Which distribution?
>> 
>> 
>> Hi, Red Hat does have a text install. You type a command like:
>> 
>> text speakup_synth=synth
>> 
>> where synth is the name of your synth.
>> The problem most have is they must absolutely select the 
>> speakup keymap
>> during the install or the install will not talk vary well at all.
>> As for what Linux is best that ends up a users choice. Red Hat is vary
>> popular because it has good hardware detection, is the 
>> easiest Linux to
>> setup, has a large list of packages, and is becoming an 
>> industry standard.
>> However, some users love editing files, getting into the guts 
>> of there Linux
>> os, Debian  and Slakware seam to apeal to those users.
>> If you are like me and don't want to customize everything 
>> under the sun Red
>> hat will apeal to you. If you are one who likes to do 
>> everything from the
>> ground up, edit configurations, and customize to your hearts  
>> desire, then
>> debian or Slack may be a better choice.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Steven M. Sawczyn <ssawczyn@email.com>
>> To: Speakup <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 5:58 PM
>> Subject: Which distribution?
>> 
>> 
>> > Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to 
>> which Linux
>> > distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
>> > want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.
>> >
>> > Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the 
>> menus extremely
>> > difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a 
>> text-based
>> > install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder 
>> than it needed
>> > to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but 
>> have never
>> > used it myself and am not sure what the installation 
>> process is like.
>> >
>> > Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Speakup mailing list
>> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-----
Patrick Turnage
E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
MSN Messenger: turnagep@hotmail.com
Amateur Radio Call Sign: kg4dqk (EXP 2009)
Home Page:
http://www.access-connect.com
Connecting the world to access technology information.
For all mainstream and adaptive hardware and software.

Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Kirk Reiser]

I can certainly make it larger but I won't for the exact reason you
asked me to.  In your article you quoted quite a few previous messages
with absolutely no trimming.  Why Ishould I make it longer if you and
others on the list can't learn to edit, trim and otherwise be
responcible posters?

It's this kind of irrisponcibility which is the reason I've put the
  limit on the messages in the first place.  It really is to bad as
  well because folks which really have something useful to say get
  chastized for all the absurd redundant quoting of messages.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

RE: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Steven M. Sawczyn]

Kirk, as one of those irresponsible posters, I want to appologize for
cluttering up the list with unnecessary traffic.  Certainly I could have
done my part to trim messages as I wrote replies and in future, I'll
make sure to do so.  I'd like to thank both you and the list for your
understanding.

Steve


> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca 
> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Kirk Reiser
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:55 AM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?
> 
> 
> I can certainly make it larger but I won't for the exact reason you
> asked me to.  In your article you quoted quite a few previous messages
> with absolutely no trimming.  Why Ishould I make it longer if you and
> others on the list can't learn to edit, trim and otherwise be
> responcible posters?
> 
> It's this kind of irrisponcibility which is the reason I've put the
>   limit on the messages in the first place.  It really is to bad as
>   well because folks which really have something useful to say get
>   chastized for all the absurd redundant quoting of messages.
> 
>   Kirk
> 
> -- 
> 
> Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

RE: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Charles Crawford]

Speaking of trimming messages, is there a block and delete function in 
Pine I can use?  In Windows, I simply select all from the curser up to the 
header and hit the delete button.  Hope there is somthing as sinmple in 
Pine.

-- charlie Crawford.

RE: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

Yes, there is. You mark one end of a block with control caret,
then move your cursor to the other end and enter control K.

Chuck
On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Charles Crawford wrote:

> Speaking of trimming messages, is there a block and delete function in
> Pine I can use?  In Windows, I simply select all from the curser up to the
> header and hit the delete button.  Hope there is somthing as sinmple in
> Pine.
>
> -- charlie Crawford.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
The Moon is Waning Crescent (1% of Full)
So visit me sometime at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
PS: Microsoft spel chekar vor sail, worgs grate !!

RE: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Charles Crawford]

So that removes the block?  Sounds great and thanks!

-- charlie.
On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, 
Chuck Hallenbeck wrote:

> 
> Yes, there is. You mark one end of a block with control caret,
> then move your cursor to the other end and enter control K.
> 
> Chuck
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Charles Crawford wrote:
> 
> > Speaking of trimming messages, is there a block and delete function in
> > Pine I can use?  In Windows, I simply select all from the curser up to the
> > header and hit the delete button.  Hope there is somthing as sinmple in
> > Pine.
> >
> > -- charlie Crawford.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 

RE: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Luke Davis]

Yes, of course--control up-arrow (number six) to start, move to the end of
the block, and press control K.  Press control U to bring it back.

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Charles Crawford wrote:

> Speaking of trimming messages, is there a block and delete function in
> Pine I can use?  In Windows, I simply select all from the curser up to the
> header and hit the delete button.  Hope there is somthing as sinmple in
> Pine.
>
> -- charlie Crawford.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

RE: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Actually, I believe you can turn off quoting, in pine or ask it to
prompt you as to whether you want it on or not for each message.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Gregory Nowak]

Here are my personal reasons for quoting.

I generally try to make sure that my reply doesn't contain more then one original message.

Whenever I send messages to a list, I always quote the original message so that people such as myself know what message the reply goes with.

If I just have a general message comment, I quote the whole message if it's fairly short.

If I have comments throughout a longer message, I intersperse them in the original message, cutting out the unimportant stuff of course.

I hope that sheds some light on why certain people always quote what they are replying to.

Greg


On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 03:52:51PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Actually, I believe you can turn off quoting, in pine or ask it to
> prompt you as to whether you want it on or not for each message.
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> -- 
> 			Ann K. Parsons  
> email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Lorenzo Prince]

Charles Crawford staggered into view and mumbled:
> is there a block and delete function in Pine I can use?

Yes.  Try control-6 to start marking text.  Start at the beginning of the
place you want to mark.  Press control-6. Then move to the end of the text
and press control-k.  If you want to move this text somewhere else, you
can use control-u  in the new location for your text that you deleted.

Lorenzo

It's now the GNU Emacs of all terminal emulators.
	-- Linus Torvalds, regarding the fact that Linux started off as a terminal emulator

Re: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Janina Sajka]

Well, it's not in pine, of course, but in whatever editor you choose to
use with pine. The default editor in pine is pico, but I suspect you've
changed this to nano.

And, yes you can block and delete, and undelete, and move the block, and
all that good stuff. Ctrl-6 (on the qwerty) is the toggle to turn block
on and off. Ctrl-k to cut, Ctrl-u to undelete.

Charles Crawford writes:
> From: Charles Crawford <ccrawford@acb.org>
> 
> Speaking of trimming messages, is there a block and delete function in 
> Pine I can use?
Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

RH or Debian:why?

[Patrick Turnage]

Hello.
I have a few questions about using RH over Debian or vice versa. RedHat and
Debian have both good package system management tools, but what makes RH or
Debian your distro of choice? I like Debian because of the package
management, but I read somewhere the best way to install RH for blind
people is to install the entire rh system. That is a lot if you are using
an older computer.
sincerely,
Patrick


-----
Patrick Turnage
E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
MSN Messenger: turnagep@hotmail.com
Amateur Radio Call Sign: kg4dqk (EXP 2009)
Home Page:
http://www.access-connect.com
Connecting the world to access technology information.
For all mainstream and adaptive hardware and software.

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Thomas D. Ward]

Hi, Patrick. You must understand that it is not necessary to install all of
Red Hat, and it is easy to  get what packages you want by selecting the
package groups. It takes a little practice, but it is doable.
You also can use a kickstart file with speakup running which has all the
packages/package groups you wish will do an auto setup of everything. I
don't believe Debian has anything like the kickstart setup.
Despite what many users think I feel Red Hat is a vary powerful Linux, and
has many features that makes someones life 100% easier.

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Turnage <patrickt@tampabay.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 9:04 PM
Subject: RH or Debian:why?


> Hello.
> I have a few questions about using RH over Debian or vice versa. RedHat
and
> Debian have both good package system management tools, but what makes RH
or
> Debian your distro of choice? I like Debian because of the package
> management, but I read somewhere the best way to install RH for blind
> people is to install the entire rh system. That is a lot if you are using
> an older computer.
> sincerely,
> Patrick
>
>
> -----
> Patrick Turnage
> E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
> AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
> MSN Messenger: turnagep@hotmail.com
> Amateur Radio Call Sign: kg4dqk (EXP 2009)
> Home Page:
> http://www.access-connect.com
> Connecting the world to access technology information.
> For all mainstream and adaptive hardware and software.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[rmann]

Can you tell us some of those features?  I was under the impression that
sited people liked RedHat because of it's GUI tools.  I personally like
Debian because of it's apt-get program.  If I ever want to install a
program most of the time, all I have to do is type "apt-get install
program_name."    Whenever I want to upgrade to the latest release of
Debian, all I have to do is type "apt-get dist-upgrade" or "apt-get -u
dist-upgrade."


On Thu, 1 May 2003, Thomas D. Ward wrote:

> Hi, Patrick. You must understand that it is not necessary to install all of
> Red Hat, and it is easy to  get what packages you want by selecting the
> package groups. It takes a little practice, but it is doable.
> You also can use a kickstart file with speakup running which has all the
> packages/package groups you wish will do an auto setup of everything. I
> don't believe Debian has anything like the kickstart setup.
> Despite what many users think I feel Red Hat is a vary powerful Linux, and
> has many features that makes someones life 100% easier.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Turnage <patrickt@tampabay.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 9:04 PM
> Subject: RH or Debian:why?
>
>
> > Hello.
> > I have a few questions about using RH over Debian or vice versa. RedHat
> and
> > Debian have both good package system management tools, but what makes RH
> or
> > Debian your distro of choice? I like Debian because of the package
> > management, but I read somewhere the best way to install RH for blind
> > people is to install the entire rh system. That is a lot if you are using
> > an older computer.
> > sincerely,
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Patrick Turnage
> > E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
> > AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
> > MSN Messenger: turnagep@hotmail.com
> > Amateur Radio Call Sign: kg4dqk (EXP 2009)
> > Home Page:
> > http://www.access-connect.com
> > Connecting the world to access technology information.
> > For all mainstream and adaptive hardware and software.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Thomas D. Ward]

Hi, I can certainly tell you the features that are important to me, and why
I use Red Hat aposed to another such as Slack or Debian.Here are my top Red
Hat features in no particular order.

1. Red Hat has several methods of installation which often times is
invaluible. You have the kickstart install which is a text file with
commands which allows Red Hat to be installed automatically without you
having to answer any questions, and installed the way you like including
formatting, making partitions, etc. Another install method is over a telnet
connection. This is vary helpful when speakup can't be used, and you need an
accessible way to install. The last install method is by linking two
computers together by the serial ports, and doing a terminal install. Also
helpful when speakup can't be used for install.
2. Red Hat is a vary large distrobution, and you can get an rpm binary of a
program for just about anything. some comercial programs, businesses, target
Red Hat users, and won't garentee there product on other distros such as
Debian.
3. Red Hat was one of the first distros to come compiled with gcc 3.x, and
any programs compiled with 3.x will not work with libs build with older
versions of gcc. Debian has been dragging it's feet on getting with the
program and getting a distro built with gcc 3.2 which they need to be to be
compatible with new programs.
4. Red Hat has one of the best hardware manigement and configuration tools I
have found. The kudzu program basically sets up all of your hardware it can
find, and in the case of an os compatible sound card you can use sndconfig
to configure your sound.
5. I need X-windows for allot of things a5. Red Hat's X-Windows
configuration tools are unmatched. It will probe for your monitor, vidio
card, and attempt to configure X all by itself with a few minor questions.
I've found Debians setup for X to be a nightmare, and far out dated.
6. Red Hat is vary easy to turn on and off services. You don't have to edit
files to turn on say apache. Just type service httpd start and it
automatically comes up.
You can even specify what run levels you want a service to run in weather it
is 3 5 or whatever.
7. Red Hat has become a well known distro at IBM, Del, Intel, just to name
names. They are investing in that distro, and you can expect it to succeed
while less known distros become less used, and less known.Some small less
known distros may die out leaving the popular ones to stay standing.

Summary
I think Red Hat's popularity stems from good marketing, attempting to add
the ease of use of MS Windows, and target the group of people who want
something like Windows, but isn't Windows.
Debian is a traditional sort of Linux which doesn't try to cash in by making
a distro to compete with Windows, one that is a do it yourself os, and
targets their users, and if anyone joins that group they say, "good." If not
they say, "oh, well..."

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Doug]

 > Red Hat's X-Windows configuration tools are unmatched.

With the new Xfree86 version 4.x, on most systems, you
can just do Xfree86 -configure. It will find your video
card and generate a XF86Config file. If you look at
what is generated, there's almost nothing in there!
That's because X does most things dynamically now.
There are no modelines needed for most systems. The
x-windows system will generate modelines on startup
(look at the X log file and you will see what I mean).
I agree that redhat has good x config tools, but with
the new XFree86 configuration is usually automatic
using the -configure option. It puts an XF86Config.new
in the /root directory (it needs to be renamed and
copied to /etc/X11or wherever the config file should be.

   -- Doug

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-722-7209]

One thing you forgot to mention was that RH has lots of excellent 
spell-checkers.  Oh, wait a minute, looking at your message, it's 
painfully obvious that you don't know about them.

-- 
          Bill


On Fri, 2 May 2003, Thomas D. Ward wrote:

> Hi, I can certainly tell you the features that are important to me, and why
> I use Red Hat aposed to another such as Slack or Debian.Here are my top Red
> Hat features in no particular order.
> 
> 1. Red Hat has several methods of installation which often times is
> invaluible. You have the kickstart install which is a text file with
> commands which allows Red Hat to be installed automatically without you
> having to answer any questions, and installed the way you like including
> formatting, making partitions, etc. Another install method is over a telnet
> connection. This is vary helpful when speakup can't be used, and you need an
> accessible way to install. The last install method is by linking two
> computers together by the serial ports, and doing a terminal install. Also
> helpful when speakup can't be used for install.
> 2. Red Hat is a vary large distrobution, and you can get an rpm binary of a
> program for just about anything. some comercial programs, businesses, target
> Red Hat users, and won't garentee there product on other distros such as
> Debian.
> 3. Red Hat was one of the first distros to come compiled with gcc 3.x, and
> any programs compiled with 3.x will not work with libs build with older
> versions of gcc. Debian has been dragging it's feet on getting with the
> program and getting a distro built with gcc 3.2 which they need to be to be
> compatible with new programs.
> 4. Red Hat has one of the best hardware manigement and configuration tools I
> have found. The kudzu program basically sets up all of your hardware it can
> find, and in the case of an os compatible sound card you can use sndconfig
> to configure your sound.
> 5. I need X-windows for allot of things a5. Red Hat's X-Windows
> configuration tools are unmatched. It will probe for your monitor, vidio
> card, and attempt to configure X all by itself with a few minor questions.
> I've found Debians setup for X to be a nightmare, and far out dated.
> 6. Red Hat is vary easy to turn on and off services. You don't have to edit
> files to turn on say apache. Just type service httpd start and it
> automatically comes up.
> You can even specify what run levels you want a service to run in weather it
> is 3 5 or whatever.
> 7. Red Hat has become a well known distro at IBM, Del, Intel, just to name
> names. They are investing in that distro, and you can expect it to succeed
> while less known distros become less used, and less known.Some small less
> known distros may die out leaving the popular ones to stay standing.
> 
> Summary
> I think Red Hat's popularity stems from good marketing, attempting to add
> the ease of use of MS Windows, and target the group of people who want
> something like Windows, but isn't Windows.
> Debian is a traditional sort of Linux which doesn't try to cash in by making
> a distro to compete with Windows, one that is a do it yourself os, and
> targets their users, and if anyone joins that group they say, "good." If not
> they say, "oh, well..."
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Thomas D. Ward]

Hi, I do know about aspell and ispell, but I am a little lax in using 
them.
Bill, I don't understand why you would make such an insult about spell 
checkers. I do know how to use them I just don't always do so.

On Fri, 2 May 2003, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-722-7209 wrote:

> One thing you forgot to mention was that RH has lots of excellent 
> spell-checkers.  Oh, wait a minute, looking at your message, it's 
> painfully obvious that you don't know about them.
> 
> 

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Me thinks perhaps this should have gone off-list, but since you ask,
I'll tell you.  Take into account that this note of Bills was written
during the wee hours of the morning.  

Now I was curious about his post, so I ran your post through ispell.
I found ten spelling errors in fifty lines.  That may have been too
much to take at three in the morning.   Save yourself aggravation, run
the spell checker.  

FYI:  "guarantee" is spelled like "guard".  There's a U there plus a
second A.  

"valuable" is spelled with an A not an I because you would pronounce
it totally differently if it were spelled with an I.  

Ann P.
 

 >>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas D Ward <tward1978@earthlink.net> writes:

    Thomas> Hi, I do know about aspell and ispell, but I am a little
    Thomas> lax in using them.  Bill, I don't understand why you would
    Thomas> make such an insult about spell checkers. I do know how to
    Thomas> use them I just don't always do so.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

What I do about spellchecking is, I make it automatic so I cannot
avoid it. I have created a very short script which is invoked as
an alternate editor from pine. The script first runs an actual
editor (I use nano instead of pico but it would work the same for
pico) and then immediately goes into the spellchecker on the file
I just composed. It is a pain in the ewe-no-ware for a while, but
believe me, it improves your habits in a hurry.

BTW -- nano and pico are measurement terms in science referring
to negative powers of ten. Nano is like pico only more so!!!

Chuck

-- 
The Moon is Waxing Crescent (1% of Full)
So visit me sometime at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Thomas D. Ward]

I know about nano, and it is a good editor. I just added ispell to my 
pinerc, and just use control+t to check when ready.
 

On Fri, 2 May 2003, Chuck Hallenbeck wrote:

> What I do about spellchecking is, I make it automatic so I cannot
> avoid it. I have created a very short script which is invoked as
> an alternate editor from pine. The script first runs an actual
> editor (I use nano instead of pico but it would work the same for
> pico) and then immediately goes into the spellchecker on the file
> I just composed. It is a pain in the ewe-no-ware for a while, but
> believe me, it improves your habits in a hurry.
> 
> BTW -- nano and pico are measurement terms in science referring
> to negative powers of ten. Nano is like pico only more so!!!
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Thomas D. Ward]

Hi, Anne. Point well taken. However, I feel that Bill's suggestion I 
didn't know how to use a spell checker was ridiculous.  Was also vary 
insulting. Asking me to please spell check before sending would have been 
a better response.

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Gently, gently, old Bill, treat 'em gently.   That will at least
guarantee your continued friendship.  Friendship is a valuable
commodity, you know.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

dosemu and freedos

[Charles Crawford]

Anyone have url's to download the latest dosemu and freedos rpm's?  I did 
a search and got dosemu-1.1.1-3.i386.rpm, but it would not execute (sorry 
for the windows term) on my machine after installation.  Complained of 
some binary problem.  Before tackling those kinds of problems, I need to 
get copies of the latest stable stuff and then see what I can do.

-- Charlie Crawford.

Re: dosemu and freedos

[Alex Snow]

Hi Charley,
I have also had problems with the rpms.  I did it from source.  you'll
need the 1.1.4 src, the latest freedos binaries, and the latest patchset.
the patchset is important since it wont run without it...
http://www.dosemu.org/testing I think is the correct url.
hth

--
A message from the system administrator: "I've upped my priority, now up yours!"
On Fri, 2 May 2003, Charles Crawford wrote:

> Anyone have url's to download the latest dosemu and freedos rpm's?  I did
> a search and got dosemu-1.1.1-3.i386.rpm, but it would not execute (sorry
> for the windows term) on my machine after installation.  Complained of
> some binary problem.  Before tackling those kinds of problems, I need to
> get copies of the latest stable stuff and then see what I can do.
>
> -- Charlie Crawford.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: dosemu and freedos

[Thomas D. Ward]

Hi, you will need to build dosemu from source. The rpm doesn't seam to 
work on later distros of Red Hat.

On Fri, 2 May 2003, Charles Crawford wrote:

> Anyone have url's to download the latest dosemu and freedos rpm's?  I did 
> a search and got dosemu-1.1.1-3.i386.rpm, but it would not execute (sorry 
> for the windows term) on my machine after installation.  Complained of 
> some binary problem.  Before tackling those kinds of problems, I need to 
> get copies of the latest stable stuff and then see what I can do.
> 
> -- Charlie Crawford.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Lorenzo Prince]

The only problem I had with RH was the fact that Speakup for some reason
ran vety slowly and sent a lot of incorrect parameters to my dectalk.  I
don't know what I did wrong, or if it's just like that.  I would need the
entire system, because I use X-windows to run applets and whatnot using
the limited vision I have.  I would love the apt-get commands in Debian,
but I understand the speakup-enabled version is very old, although I saw
in another message that I should be able to use apt-get dist-upgrade to
fix that problem.

Lorenzo

I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is a
fundamental error.  Be thankful you are not my student.  You would not get a
high grade for such a design :-)
	-- Andrew Tanenbaum to Linus Torvalds

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Thomas D. Ward]

Hi, Lorenzo. When you were using RH did you try resetting jiffy_delta and 
delay_time?
I've found by doing so speakup works correctly on RH.

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Lorenzo Prince]

No, but I will try installing it on my laptop and see if that works.  I
will also try compiling in CVS speakup to see if that corrects the
problem.  Despite what some people have said in other unrelated poste, RH
seems to be a very good system.  I have used it on a limited basis at
school over ssh, and I would recommend it.

Lorenzo

> I've hacked the Xaw3d library to give you a Win95 like interface and it
> is named Xaw95. You can replace your Xaw3d library.
Oh God, this is so disgusting!
	-- seen on c.o.l.development.apps, about the "Win95 look-alike"

Thomas D. Ward staggered into view and mumbled:

> Hi, Lorenzo. When you were using RH did you try resetting jiffy_delta and
> delay_time?
> I've found by doing so speakup works correctly on RH.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Tommy Moore]

Installing the entire system isn't something you have to do.  I only
install the text based stuff and I'm fine.
The footprint of the installed system for RH is a bit larger than say
a Debian system so you'll need at least say 1.2 g to work with.

Tommy

On Thu, May 01, 2003 at 09:04:28PM -0400, Patrick Turnage wrote:
> Hello.
> I have a few questions about using RH over Debian or vice versa. RedHat and
> Debian have both good package system management tools, but what makes RH or
> Debian your distro of choice? I like Debian because of the package
> management, but I read somewhere the best way to install RH for blind
> people is to install the entire rh system. That is a lot if you are using
> an older computer.
> sincerely,
> Patrick
> 
> 
> -----
> Patrick Turnage
> E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
> AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
> MSN Messenger: turnagep@hotmail.com
> Amateur Radio Call Sign: kg4dqk (EXP 2009)
> Home Page:
> http://www.access-connect.com
> Connecting the world to access technology information.
> For all mainstream and adaptive hardware and software.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: RH or Debian:why?

[Janina Sajka]

I usually try to avoid these discussions, but you've hooked me this time
Patrick.

Why? Because of the very thing you cite. You say it's a problem that RH
works best if you install everything. You say it's a problem because
that's not possible on old systems. 

So, what kind of discussion do you want to have? Do you want to know
people's opinions among the various distros? Or how to get things
running on old computers. To my mind, those are two very separate
things.

But, as I said, I'm going to bite on this one, because I do happen to
have some experience of both Debian and Red Hat. I have, and daily use,
both. Here's my short list:

1.)	Both are great, robust distros.

2.)	They don't do things quite the same way.

3.)	You don't have to install everything during an RH installation
if you don't want to, it's just easier to go for everything if you can.
I've done it both ways many times.

4.)	It's harder to install "everything" on Debian, because that goes
against the philosophy. Is this a bad thing? Maybe, maybe not. It's a
bad thing when you try to do something and find the tool isn't there.
Then you have to take the time to get the tool. That can take awhile.

5.)	Debian will make you feel like a real radical,
counter-corporate, hero of the people. The Debian people aren't into
corporate speak, or Enterprise Editions, etc.

6.)	Red Hat is in there slogging it out for the corporate and public
sector IT dollar. Hurray for them, I say, because they're making Linux
happen where people go to work.

7.)	If you want to be on the edge of the newest and latest
applications for Linux, you'll have an easier time with Red Hat, because
they've probably already put them in.

8.)	If you want to be an old foggie conservative with your system
and only run the tried and true, Debian makes that easy. Yes, you can
scale up to "testing" and "unstable," but what is that? Heck, you have
to work to know what that is, and do it with your system. Not that
there's anything wrong with being an old foggie conserfvative. In the
corporate network room, that's exactly what they want. Reliability is
the name of the game there.

9.)	I have found service and chkconfig to be really slick--far
easier than dpkg-reconfigure and all that init.d and rc.whatever stuff.
Way to go RH.

10.)	Apt is cool, but both have it, so what does that mean? It
doesn't save you from downloading source and compiling something that
doesn't happen to be listed by apt.

So, here's my bottom line. They're both great. Simply suit your
personality in your distro. If you like the flamboyant kind of thing, go
RH. If you want to be solid and minimalist, go Debian.

Hope this helps.



Patrick Turnage writes:
> From: Patrick Turnage <patrickt@tampabay.rr.com>
> 
> Hello.
> I have a few questions about using RH over Debian or vice versa. RedHat and
> Debian have both good package system management tools, but what makes RH or
> Debian your distro of choice? I like Debian because of the package
> management, but I read somewhere the best way to install RH for blind
> people is to install the entire rh system. That is a lot if you are using
> an older computer.
> sincerely,
> Patrick
> 
> 
> -----
> Patrick Turnage
> E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
> AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
> MSN Messenger: turnagep@hotmail.com
> Amateur Radio Call Sign: kg4dqk (EXP 2009)
> Home Page:
> http://www.access-connect.com
> Connecting the world to access technology information.
> For all mainstream and adaptive hardware and software.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Adam Myrow]

Actually, those editing commands work in Pine and Pico as well.  Wasn't
Nano enspired by Pico?

RE: Message length, was: Re: Which distribution?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Now Steve, if you're contrite and all that, why did you go and do the
same thing again?  To be contrite means that you have decided to
refrain from sin.  You haven't, not one wit!  You quoted Kirk's entire
message, including the headers and the footers!!  Now if you're really
contrite, prove it!  <sigh>  Man, I'd sure hate to be a priest.  

Father, I I did it again, I ...  That's OK, my son, just say five Hail
Mary's...<grrrrrr>  Maybe it's a good idea we don't have personal
confessions any more unless you request 'em.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Which distribution?

[Janina Sajka]

I believe you're referring to the apt commands. Those are also available
on Red Hat, but they don't come on the Red Hat installation disks. You
get apt separately if you want it. On Red Hat, apt functions as a front
end to rpm which is itself a powerful package management application.


Steven M. Sawczyn writes:
> From: "Steven M. Sawczyn" <ssawczyn@email.com>
> 
> I'd like to thank you and everyone who has replied to my post.  One
> aspect of Debian which appealed to me was its ability to auto-download
> packages as needed.  Is this a feature specific to Debian, or can
> Slackware and/or redhat do the same thing?  Would it be just as easy to
> search for packages when I actually need them?  Can anyone compare the
> installation of Debian to that of Slackware?
> 
> Again, thanks for all help,
> 
> Steve
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca 
> > [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Thomas D. Ward
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:41 AM
> > To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > Subject: Re: Which distribution?
> > 
> > 
> > Hi, Red Hat does have a text install. You type a command like:
> > 
> > text speakup_synth=synth
> > 
> > where synth is the name of your synth.
> > The problem most have is they must absolutely select the 
> > speakup keymap
> > during the install or the install will not talk vary well at all.
> > As for what Linux is best that ends up a users choice. Red Hat is vary
> > popular because it has good hardware detection, is the 
> > easiest Linux to
> > setup, has a large list of packages, and is becoming an 
> > industry standard.
> > However, some users love editing files, getting into the guts 
> > of there Linux
> > os, Debian  and Slakware seam to apeal to those users.
> > If you are like me and don't want to customize everything 
> > under the sun Red
> > hat will apeal to you. If you are one who likes to do 
> > everything from the
> > ground up, edit configurations, and customize to your hearts  
> > desire, then
> > debian or Slack may be a better choice.
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Steven M. Sawczyn <ssawczyn@email.com>
> > To: Speakup <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 5:58 PM
> > Subject: Which distribution?
> > 
> > 
> > > Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to 
> > which Linux
> > > distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
> > > want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.
> > >
> > > Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the 
> > menus extremely
> > > difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a 
> > text-based
> > > install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder 
> > than it needed
> > > to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but 
> > have never
> > > used it myself and am not sure what the installation 
> > process is like.
> > >
> > > Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: Which distribution?

[Janina Sajka]

I don't know of a recent comparison of the different distributions of
Linux. Nor do I know of one with particular information for blind users.

There is a Red Hat Installation HOWTO specific for Red Hat 8.0 on the
Speakup web site at:

http://www.linux-speakup.org/ftp/disks/redhat/HOWTO_INSTALL.html

If you weren't using this HOWTO during your attempted installation of
Red Hat 8, you might want to try again with the help of the HOWTO.



Steven M. Sawczyn writes:
> From: "Steven M. Sawczyn" <ssawczyn@email.com>
> 
> Greetings, I'm wondering if someone might advise me as to which Linux
> distribution is the easiest to install using Speakup?  Eventually, I
> want to get both Speakup and Emacspeak up and running.
> 
> Earlier today, I tried installing Redhat, but found the menus extremely
> difficult to navigate with Speakup.  Not sure if there's a text-based
> install for Redhat, so the process may have been harder than it needed
> to be.  I've also heard very good things about Debian, but have never
> used it myself and am not sure what the installation process is like.  
> 
> Any comments/suggestions/help greatly appreciated.  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175