* html mail...
@ Chris Peterson
` Kirk Wood
` (5 more replies)
0 siblings, 6 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Chris Peterson @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
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This message is in html to filter out those who are to lazy to read it for how it is intended.
If html mail is an issue for people using pine, or something similar, then lets come up with a solution that can be implimented to filter out html tags and, if necessary, convert character sets so that this isn't an issue anymore.
I agree, in principle, that html mail is unnecessary and just takes up space, but I don't think you should go off and flame everybody who uses a Windows mail program. (Btw, mac mail programs read html mail too...)
Anyway, I've got to think that this would be doable. Perhaps pine could even be modified to allow you to access links imbeded in an html message. Thats where I find html to be really useful. I like the fact that, in Windows, I can press enter on a url in a message and almost immediately access the page.
Obviously, writing a text-based browser that works well isn't a problem; Lynx has been around for years, but nobody seems to be interested in using text anymore except the blind community and all we ever do is bitch when something doesn't work with our stuff.
No wonder I can't stand blind people...
Kirk Wood hit it right on the head in his message. If you don't like it, go ahead and use your delete finger. If I don't like you, I'll go ahead and use my middle finger.
I didn't join this list expecting flame wars and people who don't know how to read all their mail before they post. This must be a blindism, though, because it doesn't happen nearly as frequently on lists mainly frequented by sighted people. Perhaps it is because they can see the replies to a particular question even before they read them.
So, to quote Rodney King, can't we all just get along? Or, if that isn't possible, could we at least agree not to waste each other's time with this crap on a regular basis?
Chris
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread* Re: html mail... html mail Chris Peterson @ ` Kirk Wood ` Amanda Lee ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Kirk Wood @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > This message is in html .... OK now I have to amend my previous posts. There are a few more lines when someone sends an html message. It consists of 8 lines. They tell me about attachments and that there is an html message. I suppose it could be a pain, but think I would learn to just skip down a number of lines. It isn't like you don't know what they are saying. ======= Kirk Wood Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net Nowlan's Theory: He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from the next freeway exit. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... html mail Chris Peterson ` Kirk Wood @ ` Amanda Lee ` Janina Sajka ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Amanda Lee @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup You do not have to code an url in html to read it within a text message. I do this oftentimes and OE is smart enough to show it to you as a link because it understands s. So to be able to read links in email is just fine if you have your oprtions set to read and write in plain text only. Amanda Lee On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > This message is in html to filter out those who are to lazy to read it for how it is intended. > > If html mail is an issue for people using pine, or something similar, then lets come up with a solution that can be implimented to filter out html tags and, if necessary, convert character sets so that this isn't an issue anymore. > > I agree, in principle, that html mail is unnecessary and just takes up space, but I don't think you should go off and flame everybody who uses a Windows mail program. (Btw, mac mail programs read html mail too...) > > Anyway, I've got to think that this would be doable. Perhaps pine could even be modified to allow you to access links imbeded in an html message. Thats where I find html to be really useful. I like the fact that, in Windows, I can press enter on a url in a message and almost immediately access the page. > > Obviously, writing a text-based browser that works well isn't a problem; Lynx has been around for years, but nobody seems to be interested in using text anymore except the blind community and all we ever do is bitch when something doesn't work with our stuff. > > No wonder I can't stand blind people... > > Kirk Wood hit it right on the head in his message. If you don't like it, go ahead and use your delete finger. If I don't like you, I'll go ahead and use my middle finger. > > I didn't join this list expecting flame wars and people who don't know how to read all their mail before they post. This must be a blindism, though, because it doesn't happen nearly as frequently on lists mainly frequented by sighted people. Perhaps it is because they can see the replies to a particular question even before they read them. > > So, to quote Rodney King, can't we all just get along? Or, if that isn't possible, could we at least agree not to waste each other's time with this crap on a regular basis? > > Chris > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... html mail Chris Peterson ` Kirk Wood ` Amanda Lee @ ` Janina Sajka ` Chris Peterson ` Janina Sajka ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > Perhaps pine could even be modified to allow you to access links imbeded > in an html message. Thats where I find html to be really useful. I > like the fact that, in Windows, I can press enter on a url in a message > and almost immediately access the page. This has nothing to do with html, and this feature has been in Pine for years now. Yes, that's right, all those urls in Pine text messages are "clickable" as the mousy crowd calls them. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Janina Sajka @ ` Chris Peterson ` Amanda Lee ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Chris Peterson @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Well, that shows my ignorance of pine. I haven't used it for several years, but I just tried it out and had no trouble with reading html mail. I also had no trouble reading it in elm. So, perhaps the better solution would be to distribute a version of pine with defaults that are screen reader friendly? Supressing these warnings would be a start. Another thing I noticed, on the pine I was using, is that the cursor doesn't track the highlight bar so I can't use the read current line command to figure out what message I'm on in the message index...etc. It seems to me that there used to be a way to toggle cursor tracking, but I didn't find it when I was playing around with pine 4.10 today. This would be a constructive way of trying to avoid these discussions. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:52 PM Subject: Re: html mail... > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > Perhaps pine could even be modified to allow you to access links imbeded > > in an html message. Thats where I find html to be really useful. I > > like the fact that, in Windows, I can press enter on a url in a message > > and almost immediately access the page. > This has nothing to do with html, and this feature has been in Pine for > years now. > > Yes, that's right, all those urls in Pine text messages are "clickable" as > the mousy crowd calls them. > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Chris Peterson @ ` Amanda Lee ` Janina Sajka ` Janina Sajka 2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Amanda Lee @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Set pine to showcursor just use m to go to the main menu, s to settings and w to for whereis to get to showsursor and press enter on that to check it. Save by pressing e to exit y to save the changes and cursor tracking should work better. Also I didn't see html code while using pine earlier today in the message which alledgeled was all html. I was using pine version 4.41 at least/forget which one Ken Scott is up to as he's always putting up the latest. Suggest anyone who ahs pine 4.21 to upgrade. obviously, turn headers off because unless you really need to know, you really don't need to know! <grinn!> Amanda Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Peterson" <capeterson@visi.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 6:00 PM Subject: Re: html mail... > Well, that shows my ignorance of pine. > > I haven't used it for several years, but I just tried it out and had no > trouble with reading html mail. I also had no trouble reading it in elm. > > So, perhaps the better solution would be to distribute a version of pine > with defaults that are screen reader friendly? Supressing these warnings > would be a start. > > Another thing I noticed, on the pine I was using, is that the cursor doesn't > track the highlight bar so I can't use the read current line command to > figure out what message I'm on in the message index...etc. It seems to me > that there used to be a way to toggle cursor tracking, but I didn't find it > when I was playing around with pine 4.10 today. > > This would be a constructive way of trying to avoid these discussions. > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:52 PM > Subject: Re: html mail... > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > > > Perhaps pine could even be modified to allow you to access links imbeded > > > in an html message. Thats where I find html to be really useful. I > > > like the fact that, in Windows, I can press enter on a url in a message > > > and almost immediately access the page. > > This has nothing to do with html, and this feature has been in Pine for > > years now. > > > > Yes, that's right, all those urls in Pine text messages are "clickable" as > > the mousy crowd calls them. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Chris Peterson ` Amanda Lee @ ` Janina Sajka ` Chris Peterson ` Janina Sajka 2 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi, Pete: Attached herewith is my .pinerc file. You'll find your highlight tracks if you use it. Of course you could set cursor tracking yourself and that would do it as well, but someone was saying something about sharing. I've shared this before, and I'm sure I'll be delighted to share it again. And, if and when I get around to writing the filter for the char set warnings, I'll certainly include them. And, if someone else figures that out first, please share it. Etc. Now, if Pine was just GPL ... But it's not, so maybe it's time to try mutt. On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > Well, that shows my ignorance of pine. > > I haven't used it for several years, but I just tried it out and had no > trouble with reading html mail. I also had no trouble reading it in elm. > > So, perhaps the better solution would be to distribute a version of pine > with defaults that are screen reader friendly? Supressing these warnings > would be a start. > > Another thing I noticed, on the pine I was using, is that the cursor doesn't > track the highlight bar so I can't use the read current line command to > figure out what message I'm on in the message index...etc. It seems to me > that there used to be a way to toggle cursor tracking, but I didn't find it > when I was playing around with pine 4.10 today. > > This would be a constructive way of trying to avoid these discussions. > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:52 PM > Subject: Re: html mail... > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > > > Perhaps pine could even be modified to allow you to access links imbeded > > > in an html message. Thats where I find html to be really useful. I > > > like the fact that, in Windows, I can press enter on a url in a message > > > and almost immediately access the page. > > This has nothing to do with html, and this feature has been in Pine for > > years now. > > > > Yes, that's right, all those urls in Pine text messages are "clickable" as > > the mousy crowd calls them. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > -- Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and Development Governmental Relations Group American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Janina Sajka @ ` Chris Peterson ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Chris Peterson @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I've never used mutt, but elm is pretty good... Thanks for the info on cursor tracking. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:24 PM Subject: Re: html mail... > Hi, Pete: > > Attached herewith is my .pinerc file. You'll find your highlight tracks if > you use it. Of course you could set cursor tracking yourself and that > would do it as well, but someone was saying something about sharing. I've > shared this before, and I'm sure I'll be delighted to share it again. And, > if and when I get around to writing the filter for the char set warnings, > I'll certainly include them. And, if someone else figures that out first, > please share it. Etc. > > Now, if Pine was just GPL ... But it's not, so maybe it's time to try > mutt. > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > Well, that shows my ignorance of pine. > > > > I haven't used it for several years, but I just tried it out and had no > > trouble with reading html mail. I also had no trouble reading it in elm. > > > > So, perhaps the better solution would be to distribute a version of pine > > with defaults that are screen reader friendly? Supressing these warnings > > would be a start. > > > > Another thing I noticed, on the pine I was using, is that the cursor doesn't > > track the highlight bar so I can't use the read current line command to > > figure out what message I'm on in the message index...etc. It seems to me > > that there used to be a way to toggle cursor tracking, but I didn't find it > > when I was playing around with pine 4.10 today. > > > > This would be a constructive way of trying to avoid these discussions. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:52 PM > > Subject: Re: html mail... > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > > > > > Perhaps pine could even be modified to allow you to access links imbeded > > > > in an html message. Thats where I find html to be really useful. I > > > > like the fact that, in Windows, I can press enter on a url in a message > > > > and almost immediately access the page. > > > This has nothing to do with html, and this feature has been in Pine for > > > years now. > > > > > > Yes, that's right, all those urls in Pine text messages are "clickable" as > > > the mousy crowd calls them. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > -- > > Janina Sajka, Director > Technology Research and Development > Governmental Relations Group > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > > Chair, Accessibility SIG > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) > http://www.openebook.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Chris Peterson @ ` Janina Sajka ` Shaun Oliver ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Chris: Isn't ELM now stagnant? Hasn't the version been the same for years? If my info is correct, MUTT is a descendant of ELM. On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > I've never used mutt, but elm is pretty good... > > Thanks for the info on cursor tracking. > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:24 PM > Subject: Re: html mail... > > > > Hi, Pete: > > > > Attached herewith is my .pinerc file. You'll find your highlight tracks if > > you use it. Of course you could set cursor tracking yourself and that > > would do it as well, but someone was saying something about sharing. I've > > shared this before, and I'm sure I'll be delighted to share it again. And, > > if and when I get around to writing the filter for the char set warnings, > > I'll certainly include them. And, if someone else figures that out first, > > please share it. Etc. > > > > Now, if Pine was just GPL ... But it's not, so maybe it's time to try > > mutt. > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > > > Well, that shows my ignorance of pine. > > > > > > I haven't used it for several years, but I just tried it out and had no > > > trouble with reading html mail. I also had no trouble reading it in > elm. > > > > > > So, perhaps the better solution would be to distribute a version of pine > > > with defaults that are screen reader friendly? Supressing these > warnings > > > would be a start. > > > > > > Another thing I noticed, on the pine I was using, is that the cursor > doesn't > > > track the highlight bar so I can't use the read current line command to > > > figure out what message I'm on in the message index...etc. It seems to > me > > > that there used to be a way to toggle cursor tracking, but I didn't find > it > > > when I was playing around with pine 4.10 today. > > > > > > This would be a constructive way of trying to avoid these discussions. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:52 PM > > > Subject: Re: html mail... > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > > > > > > > Perhaps pine could even be modified to allow you to access links > imbeded > > > > > in an html message. Thats where I find html to be really useful. I > > > > > like the fact that, in Windows, I can press enter on a url in a > message > > > > > and almost immediately access the page. > > > > This has nothing to do with html, and this feature has been in Pine > for > > > > years now. > > > > > > > > Yes, that's right, all those urls in Pine text messages are > "clickable" as > > > > the mousy crowd calls them. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > -- > > > > Janina Sajka, Director > > Technology Research and Development > > Governmental Relations Group > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) > > http://www.openebook.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > -- Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and Development Governmental Relations Group American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Janina Sajka @ ` Shaun Oliver ` Janina Sajka ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Chris Peterson 2 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Shaun Oliver @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup um. janina, I thought pine was the decendant of elm? On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Janina Sajka wrote: > Chris: > > Isn't ELM now stagnant? Hasn't the version been the same for years? If my > info is correct, MUTT is a descendant of ELM. > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > I've never used mutt, but elm is pretty good... > > > > Thanks for the info on cursor tracking. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:24 PM > > Subject: Re: html mail... > > > > > > > Hi, Pete: > > > > > > Attached herewith is my .pinerc file. You'll find your highlight tracks if > > > you use it. Of course you could set cursor tracking yourself and that > > > would do it as well, but someone was saying something about sharing. I've > > > shared this before, and I'm sure I'll be delighted to share it again. And, > > > if and when I get around to writing the filter for the char set warnings, > > > I'll certainly include them. And, if someone else figures that out first, > > > please share it. Etc. > > > > > > Now, if Pine was just GPL ... But it's not, so maybe it's time to try > > > mutt. > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > > > > > Well, that shows my ignorance of pine. > > > > > > > > I haven't used it for several years, but I just tried it out and had no > > > > trouble with reading html mail. I also had no trouble reading it in > > elm. > > > > > > > > So, perhaps the better solution would be to distribute a version of pine > > > > with defaults that are screen reader friendly? Supressing these > > warnings > > > > would be a start. > > > > > > > > Another thing I noticed, on the pine I was using, is that the cursor > > doesn't > > > > track the highlight bar so I can't use the read current line command to > > > > figure out what message I'm on in the message index...etc. It seems to > > me > > > > that there used to be a way to toggle cursor tracking, but I didn't find > > it > > > > when I was playing around with pine 4.10 today. > > > > > > > > This would be a constructive way of trying to avoid these discussions. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> > > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:52 PM > > > > Subject: Re: html mail... > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps pine could even be modified to allow you to access links > > imbeded > > > > > > in an html message. Thats where I find html to be really useful. I > > > > > > like the fact that, in Windows, I can press enter on a url in a > > message > > > > > > and almost immediately access the page. > > > > > This has nothing to do with html, and this feature has been in Pine > > for > > > > > years now. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that's right, all those urls in Pine text messages are > > "clickable" as > > > > > the mousy crowd calls them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director > > > Technology Research and Development > > > Governmental Relations Group > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) > > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) > > > http://www.openebook.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > -- Shaun Oliver Marriage is a three ring circus: engagement ring, wedding ring, and suffering. -- Roger Price Email: shauno@goanna.net.au Icq: 76958435 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Shaun Oliver @ ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup When I first started using unix many years ago it seemed everyone was using either Pine or Elm. So, I'm sure there was feature competition involved. But, at some point elm development died out. It was my understanding that mutt picked up elm conventions, if not actual code, in some way. Certainly, they're both gpl. Maybe it's time to start learning mutt. understanding that On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, Shaun Oliver wrote: > um. janina, > I thought pine was the decendant of elm? > On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Janina Sajka > wrote: > > > Chris: > > > > Isn't ELM now stagnant? Hasn't the version been the same for years? If my > > info is correct, MUTT is a descendant of ELM. > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > > > I've never used mutt, but elm is pretty good... > > > > > > Thanks for the info on cursor tracking. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:24 PM > > > Subject: Re: html mail... > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Pete: > > > > > > > > Attached herewith is my .pinerc file. You'll find your highlight tracks if > > > > you use it. Of course you could set cursor tracking yourself and that > > > > would do it as well, but someone was saying something about sharing. I've > > > > shared this before, and I'm sure I'll be delighted to share it again. And, > > > > if and when I get around to writing the filter for the char set warnings, > > > > I'll certainly include them. And, if someone else figures that out first, > > > > please share it. Etc. > > > > > > > > Now, if Pine was just GPL ... But it's not, so maybe it's time to try > > > > mutt. > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well, that shows my ignorance of pine. > > > > > > > > > > I haven't used it for several years, but I just tried it out and had no > > > > > trouble with reading html mail. I also had no trouble reading it in > > > elm. > > > > > > > > > > So, perhaps the better solution would be to distribute a version of pine > > > > > with defaults that are screen reader friendly? Supressing these > > > warnings > > > > > would be a start. > > > > > > > > > > Another thing I noticed, on the pine I was using, is that the cursor > > > doesn't > > > > > track the highlight bar so I can't use the read current line command to > > > > > figure out what message I'm on in the message index...etc. It seems to > > > me > > > > > that there used to be a way to toggle cursor tracking, but I didn't find > > > it > > > > > when I was playing around with pine 4.10 today. > > > > > > > > > > This would be a constructive way of trying to avoid these discussions. > > > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> > > > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:52 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: html mail... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps pine could even be modified to allow you to access links > > > imbeded > > > > > > > in an html message. Thats where I find html to be really useful. I > > > > > > > like the fact that, in Windows, I can press enter on a url in a > > > message > > > > > > > and almost immediately access the page. > > > > > > This has nothing to do with html, and this feature has been in Pine > > > for > > > > > > years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that's right, all those urls in Pine text messages are > > > "clickable" as > > > > > > the mousy crowd calls them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director > > > > Technology Research and Development > > > > Governmental Relations Group > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) > > > > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > > > > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) > > > > http://www.openebook.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > -- Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and Development Governmental Relations Group American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Janina Sajka ` Shaun Oliver @ ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Chris Peterson 2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I have not used either ELM or MUTT, but I gather that PINE is more a reaction to ELM than a descendant of it: PINE = Pine Is Not Elm according to one thing I read a while ago Chuck On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Janina Sajka wrote: > Chris: > > Isn't ELM now stagnant? Hasn't the version been the same for years? If my > info is correct, MUTT is a descendant of ELM. Visit me now at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck The Moon is Waning Gibbous (72% of Full) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Janina Sajka ` Shaun Oliver ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` Chris Peterson 2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Chris Peterson @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Could be, but it sure works well inspite of that. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:41 AM Subject: Re: html mail... > Chris: > > Isn't ELM now stagnant? Hasn't the version been the same for years? If my > info is correct, MUTT is a descendant of ELM. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Chris Peterson ` Amanda Lee ` Janina Sajka @ ` Janina Sajka 2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup [-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 346 bytes --] Oops. Forgot to attach. Sorry about this bandwidth hogging ... -- Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and Development Governmental Relations Group American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org [-- Attachment #2: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 18445 bytes --] # Updated by Pine(tm) 4.21, copyright 1989-1999 University of Washington. # # Pine configuration file -- customize as needed. # # This file sets the configuration options used by Pine and PC-Pine. If you # are using Pine on a Unix system, there may be a system-wide configuration # file which sets the defaults for these variables. There are comments in # this file to explain each variable, but if you have questions about # specific settings see the section on configuration options in the Pine # notes. On Unix, run pine -conf to see how system defaults have been set. # For variables that accept multiple values, list elements are separated # by commas. A line beginning with a space or tab is considered to be a # continuation of the previous line. For a variable to be unset its value # must be blank. To set a variable to the empty string its value should # be "". You can override system defaults by setting a variable to the # empty string. Switch variables are set to either "yes" or "no", and # default to "no". # Lines beginning with "#" are comments, and ignored by Pine. ########################### Essential Parameters ########################### # Over-rides your full name from Unix password file. Required for PC-Pine. personal-name= # Sets domain part of From: and local addresses in outgoing mail. user-domain=afb.net # List of SMTP servers for sending mail. If blank: Unix Pine uses sendmail. smtp-server="" # NNTP server for posting news. Also sets news-collections for news reading. nntp-server="" # Path of (local or remote) INBOX, e.g. ={mail.somewhere.edu}inbox # Normal Unix default is the local INBOX (usually /usr/spool/mail/$USER). inbox-path= ###################### Collections, Folders, and Files ##################### # List of incoming msg folders besides INBOX, e.g. ={host2}inbox, {host3}inbox # Syntax: optnl-label {optnl-imap-host-name}folder-path incoming-folders= # List of directories where saved-message folders may be. First one is # the default for Saves. Example: Main {host1}mail/[], Desktop mail\[] # Syntax: optnl-label {optnl-imap-hostname}optnl-directory-path[] folder-collections=Mail mail/[], aag mail/aag/[], advocacy mail/advocacy/[], afb mail/afb/[], comdev mail/comdev/[], help mail/help/[], janina mail/me/[], unix mail/unix/[], web mail/web/[], forms mail/forms/[], archive archive/[] # List, only needed if nntp-server not set, or news is on a different host # than used for NNTP posting. Examples: News *[] or News *{host3/nntp}[] # Syntax: optnl-label *{news-host/protocol}[] news-collections= # List of folder pairs; the first indicates a folder to archive, and the # second indicates the folder read messages in the first should # be moved to. incoming-archive-folders= # List of context and folder pairs, delimited by a space, to be offered for # pruning each month. For example: {host1}mail/[] mumble pruned-folders= # Over-rides default path for sent-mail folder, e.g. =old-mail (using first # folder collection dir) or ={host2}sent-mail or ="" (to suppress saving). # Default: sent-mail (Unix) or SENTMAIL.MTX (PC) in default folder collection. default-fcc=sent # Over-rides default path for saved-msg folder, e.g. =saved-messages (using first # folder collection dir) or ={host2}saved-mail or ="" (to suppress saving). # Default: saved-messages (Unix) or SAVEMAIL.MTX (PC) in default folder collection. default-saved-msg-folder=saved # Over-rides default path for postponed messages folder, e.g. =pm (which uses # first folder collection dir) or ={host4}pm (using home dir on host4). # Default: postponed-msgs (Unix) or POSTPOND.MTX (PC) in default fldr coltn. postponed-folder=postpones # If set, specifies where already-read messages will be moved upon quitting. read-message-folder=saved # Over-rides default path for signature file. Default is ~/.signature signature-file=mail/.signature # List of file or path names for global/shared addressbook(s). # Default: none # Syntax: optnl-label path-name global-address-book= # List of file or path names for personal addressbook(s). # Default: ~/.addressbook (Unix) or \PINE\ADDRBOOK (PC) # Syntax: optnl-label path-name address-book= ############################### Preferences ################################ # List of features; see Pine's Setup/options menu for the current set. # e.g. feature-list= select-without-confirm, signature-at-bottom # Default condition for all of the features is no-. feature-list=auto-open-next-unread, auto-zoom-after-select, auto-unzoom-after-apply, no-enable-alternate-editor-cmd, enable-background-sending, enable-bounce-cmd, enable-goto-in-file-browser, enable-incoming-folders, enable-mail-check-cue, enable-tab-completion, enable-unix-pipe-cmd, expanded-view-of-addressbooks, expanded-view-of-distribution-lists, expunge-without-confirm, print-index-enabled, print-formfeed-between-messages, quell-dead-letter-on-cancel, quit-without-confirm, select-without-confirm, single-column-folder-list, include-attachments-in-reply, enable-reply-indent-string-editing, enable-msg-view-web-hostnames, enable-8bit-nntp-posting, enable-partial-match-lists, save-will-advance, enable-search-and-replace, enable-dot-folders, separate-folder-and-directory-entries, combined-addrbook-display, enable-msg-view-attachments, enable-msg-view-urls, enable-msg-view-forced-arrows, enable-dot-files, tab-visits-next-new-message-only, enable-print-via-y-command, print-includes-from-line, enable-aggregate-command-set, enable-arrow-navigation, enable-flag-cmd, enable-flag-screen-implicitly, enable-full-header-cmd, enable-jump-shortcut, enable-suspend, show-cursor, expunge-without-confirm-everywhere, no-show-plain-text-internally, no-enable-alternate-editor-implicitly, include-text-in-reply, reply-always-uses-reply-to, strip-from-sigdashes-on-reply, enable-msg-view-addresses, prefer-plain-text, news-deletes-across-groups, news-approximates-new-status, news-offers-catchup-on-close, news-post-without-validation, news-read-in-newsrc-order, no-auto-move-read-msgs, disable-keymenu, disable-take-last-comma-first, enable-rules-under-take # Pine executes these keys upon startup (e.g. to view msg 13: i,j,1,3,CR,v) initial-keystroke-list=i # Only show these headers (by default) when composing messages default-composer-hdrs=To:, Cc:, Bcc:, Fcc:, Attchmnt:, Subject: # Add these customized headers (and possible default values) when composing customized-hdrs= # When viewing messages, include this list of headers viewer-hdrs=From # Determines default folder name for Saves... # Choices: default-folder, by-sender, by-from, by-recipient, last-folder-used. # Default: "default-folder", i.e. "saved-messages" (Unix) or "SAVEMAIL" (PC). saved-msg-name-rule= # Determines default name for Fcc... # Choices: default-fcc, by-recipient, last-fcc-used. # Default: "default-fcc" (see also "default-fcc=" variable.) fcc-name-rule= # Sets presentation order of messages in Index. Choices: # subject, from, arrival, date, size. Default: "arrival". sort-key=Arrival # Sets presentation order of address book entries. Choices: dont-sort, # fullname-with-lists-last, fullname, nickname-with-lists-last, nickname # Default: "fullname-with-lists-last". addrbook-sort-rule= # Sets the default folder and collectionoffered at the Goto Command's prompt. goto-default-rule= # Reflects capabilities of the display you have. Default: US-ASCII. # Typical alternatives include ISO-8859-x, (x is a number between 1 and 9). character-set=iso-8859-1 # Specifies the program invoked by ^_ in the Composer, # or the "enable-alternate-editor-implicitly" feature. editor=/usr/bin/nano # Specifies the program invoked by ^T in the Composer. speller= # Specifies the column of the screen where the composer should wrap. composer-wrap-column= # Specifies the string to insert when replying to message. reply-indent-string= # Specifies the string to use when sending a message with no to or cc. empty-header-message= # Program to view images (e.g. GIF or TIFF attachments). image-viewer= # If "user-domain" not set, strips hostname in FROM address. (Unix only) use-only-domain-name= ########## Set within or by Pine: No need to edit below this line ########## # Your default printer selection printer=attached-to-ansi # List of special print commands personal-print-command= # Which category default print command is in personal-print-category=-1 # Set by Pine; controls beginning-of-month sent-mail pruning. last-time-prune-questioned=101.8 # Set by Pine; controls display of "new version" message. last-version-used=4.33 # This names the path to an alternative program, and any necessary arguments, # to be used in posting mail messages. Example: # /usr/lib/sendmail -oem -t -oi # or, # /usr/local/bin/sendit.sh # The latter a script found in Pine distribution's contrib/util directory. # NOTE: The program MUST read the message to be posted on standard input, # AND operate in the style of sendmail's "-t" option. sendmail-path= # This names the root of the tree to which the user is restricted when reading # and writing folders and files. For example, on Unix ~/work confines the # user to the subtree beginning with their work subdirectory. # (Note: this alone is not sufficient for preventing access. You will also # need to restrict shell access and so on, see Pine Technical Notes.) # Default: not set (so no restriction) operating-dir= # This variable takes a list of programs that message text is piped into # after MIME decoding, prior to display. display-filters= # This defines a program that message text is piped into before MIME # encoding, prior to sending sending-filters= # A list of alternate addresses the user is known by alt-addresses="" # This is a list of formats for address books. Each entry in the list is made # up of space-delimited tokens telling which fields are displayed and in # which order. See help text addressbook-formats= # This gives a format for displaying the index. It is made # up of space-delimited tokens telling which fields are displayed and in # which order. See help text index-format=fullstatus msgno subject(80%) fromorto date # The number of lines of overlap when scrolling through message text viewer-overlap=0 # Number of lines from top and bottom of screen where single # line scrolling occurs. scroll-margin= # The number of seconds to sleep after writing a status message status-message-delay= # The approximate number of seconds between checks for new mail mail-check-interval=15 # Full path and name of NEWSRC file newsrc-path= # Path and filename of news configation's active file. # The default is typically "/usr/lib/news/active". news-active-file-path= # Directory containing system's news data. # The default is typically "/usr/spool/news" news-spool-directory= # Path and filename of the program used to upload text from your terminal # emulator's into Pine's composer. upload-command= # Text sent to terminal emulator prior to invoking the program defined by # the upload-command variable. # Note: _FILE_ will be replaced with the temporary file used in the upload. upload-command-prefix= # Path and filename of the program used to download text via your terminal # emulator from Pine's export and save commands. download-command= # Text sent to terminal emulator prior to invoking the program defined by # the download-command variable. # Note: _FILE_ will be replaced with the temporary file used in the downlaod. download-command-prefix= # Sets the search path for the mailcap cofiguration file. # NOTE: colon delimited under UNIX, semi-colon delimited under DOS/Windows/OS2. mailcap-search-path=$HOME/.mailcap:/etc/mailcap # Sets the search path for the mimetypes cofiguration file. # NOTE: colon delimited under UNIX, semi-colon delimited under DOS/Windows/OS2. mimetype-search-path=$HOME/.mime.types:/etc/mime.types # Sets the time in seconds that Pine will attempt to open a network # connection. The default is 30, the minimum is 5, and the maximum is # system defined (typically 75). tcp-open-timeout= # Sets the time in seconds that Pine will attempt to open a UNIX remote # shell connection. The default is 15, min is 5, and max is unlimited. # Zero disables rsh altogether. rsh-open-timeout= # Sets the version number Pine will use as a threshold for offering # its new version message on startup. new-version-threshold= # If set, specifies where form letters should be stored. form-letter-folder= # Sets presentation order of folder list entries. Choices: , # # Default: "alpha-with-directories-last". folder-sort-rule= # Sets message which cursor begins on. Choices: first-unseen, first-recent, # first, last. Default: "first-unseen". incoming-startup-rule= # If no user input for this many hours, Pine will exit if in an idle loop # waiting for a new command. If set to zero (the default), then there will # be no timeout. user-input-timeout= # Sets the name of the command used to open a UNIX remote shell connection. # The default is tyically /usr/ucb/rsh. rsh-path= # Sets the format of the command used to open a UNIX remote # shell connection. The default is "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd" # NOTE: the 4 (four) "%s" entries MUST exist in the provided command # where the first is for the command's path, the second is for the # host to connnect to, the third is for the user to connect as, and the # fourth is for the connection method (typically "imap") rsh-command= # List of programs to open Internet URLs (e.g. http or ftp references). url-viewers=/usr/local/bin/lynx, /usr/bin/lynx # List of mail drivers to disable. See technical notes. disable-these-drivers= # Set by Pine; contains data for caching remote address books. remote-abook-metafile= # How many extra copies of remote address book should be kept. Default: 3 remote-abook-history= # LDAP servers for looking up addresses. ldap-servers= # Specifies the introduction to insert when replying to a message. reply-leadin= # Patterns and their actions are stored here. patterns=LIT:pattern="/NICK=isrd" action="/INICK=isrd/ROLE=1/FCC=fy2k/SIG=mail\/.signature.afb/RTYPE=YES/FTYPE=YES", LIT:pattern="/NICK=dngc/CC=" action="/ROLE=1/FROM=Janina Sajka <janina@dngc.net>/FCC=me\/dngc/SIG=mail\/.signature.dngc/RTYPE=NC/FTYPE=YES" # Controls display of color color-style= # Sets the time in seconds that Pine will attempt to open a UNIX secure # shell connection. The default is 15, min is 5, and max is unlimited. # Zero disables ssh altogether. ssh-open-timeout= # Sets the name of the command used to open a UNIX secure shell connection. # Tyically this is /usr/local/bin/ssh. ssh-path= # Sets the format of the command used to open a UNIX secure # shell connection. The default is "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd" # NOTE: the 4 (four) "%s" entries MUST exist in the provided command # where the first is for the command's path, the second is for the # host to connnect to, the third is for the user to connect as, and the # fourth is for the connection method (typically "imap") ssh-command= # Minimum number of minutes between checks for remote address book changes. # 0 means never check except when opening a remote address book. # -1 means never check. Default: 5 remote-abook-validity= # Choose: black,blue,green,cyan,red,magenta,yellow,or white. normal-foreground-color= normal-background-color= reverse-foreground-color= reverse-background-color= title-foreground-color= title-background-color= status-foreground-color= status-background-color= keylabel-foreground-color= keylabel-background-color= keyname-foreground-color= keyname-background-color= selectable-item-foreground-color= selectable-item-background-color= quote1-foreground-color= quote1-background-color= quote2-foreground-color= quote2-background-color= quote3-foreground-color= quote3-background-color= prompt-foreground-color= prompt-background-color= index-to-me-foreground-color= index-to-me-background-color= index-important-foreground-color= index-important-background-color= index-deleted-foreground-color= index-deleted-background-color= index-answered-foreground-color= index-answered-background-color= index-new-foreground-color= index-new-background-color= index-recent-foreground-color= index-recent-background-color= index-unseen-foreground-color= index-unseen-background-color= # When viewing messages, these are the header colors viewer-hdr-colors= # Contains the actual signature contents as opposed to the signature filename. # If defined, this overrides the signature-file. Default is undefined. literal-signature= # Allows a default answer for the prune folder questions. Choices: yes-ask, # yes-no, no-ask, no-no, ask-ask, ask-no. Default: "ask-ask". pruning-rule= # Network read warning timeout. The default is 15, the minimum is 5, and the # maximum is 1000. tcp-read-warning-timeout= # Network write warning timeout. The default is 0 (unset), the minimum # is 5 (if not 0), and the maximum is 1000. tcp-write-warning-timeout= # If this much time has elapsed at the time of a tcp read or write # timeout, pine will ask if you want to break the connection. # Default is 60 seconds, minimum is 5, maximum is 1000. tcp-query-timeout= # Patterns and their actions are stored here. patterns-roles=LIT:pattern="/NICK=isrd/FLDTYPE=EMAIL" action="/INICK=isrd/ROLE=1/FCC=fy2k/SIG=mail\/.signature.afb/RTYPE=YES/FTYPE=YES/CTYPE=NO", LIT:pattern="/NICK=dngc/CC=/FLDTYPE=EMAIL" action="/ROLE=1/FROM=Janina Sajka <janina@dngc.net>/FCC=me\/dngc/SIG=mail\/.signature.dngc/RTYPE=NC/FTYPE=YES/CTYPE=NO" # Patterns and their actions are stored here. patterns-filters= # Patterns and their actions are stored here. patterns-scores= # Patterns and their actions are stored here. patterns-indexcolors= # List of SASL authenticators to disable. disable-these-authenticators= ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... html mail Chris Peterson ` (2 preceding siblings ...) ` Janina Sajka @ ` Janina Sajka ` Kirk Wood ` Chris Peterson ` William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 ` Geoff Shang 5 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > This message is in html to filter out those who are to lazy to read it for how it is intended. Actually, you're an example of what we'd like to see more of. The package contents order in your message is: 1 ~40 lines Text/PLAIN 2 ~73 lines Text/HTML In other words, the text version came first, and displayed without a hitch. But, what do you mean "intended?" Do you mean you "intend" me to see certain fonts, and certain types of layout in your message? It ain't gonna happen, pal. This is not what goes down here--except perhaps for those on this list who look at mail with their eyes on their video monitors. If that's what you mean, your "intention" would be an insult here, and I would certainly resent it. I trust you don't mean that. > Obviously, writing a text-based browser that works well isn't a problem; > using text anymore except the blind community and all we ever do is > bitch when something doesn't work with our stuff. Actually, most power users I know of use text interfaces a lot. It's the only way to get much work done. But, I guess you don't know about that yet. > No wonder I can't stand blind people... Yourself included, I suppose?? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Janina Sajka @ ` Kirk Wood ` Chris Peterson 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Kirk Wood @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I don't know if I would agree with Janina that text interface is the only way to get a lot of work done. But the need for fashy screens diminishes when you know more about what you are doing. I think another factor is that people who use their computer for a real purpose are more concerned about getting things done then having flashy interfaces. And a good visual interface allows for full keyboard control. There are times when I send html mail to sighted people because I want to be able to highlight for them. Of course I can always use astrics to highlight something but a little color can add a lot for sighted people. One thing I wonder is it hard to have the screen reader skip a given number of lines? I ask because it would seem natural if you hear something about a character set to know that the next three lines can be skipped. I would agree that endless quoting is anoying. And that isn't just for blind people. It is for all people. Just some don't have any sense. I often just delete messages with too much quoted. ======= Kirk Wood Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net Nowlan's Theory: He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from the next freeway exit. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... ` Janina Sajka ` Kirk Wood @ ` Chris Peterson 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Chris Peterson @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup > But, what do you mean "intended?" Do you mean you "intend" me to see > certain fonts, and certain types of layout in your message? It ain't gonna Of course not. I can't see them any better than you can. Assuming you can't see jack, which I can't. I was simply making the point that I intentionally, when posing the message in O E, went to the format menu and made sure "Rich Text-html" was checked. And, as you pointed out, it didn't cause a problem. The message was completely readable. In fact, I've been going through this, and I'm not sure how to make o e not send a plain-text attachment that pine will display. I'd assume outlook is the same way. As far as insults are concerned, I consider it to be an insult when two days after I join a list, I see more bad behavior than I've seen in the last year. So, while the things that sighted people, or even some blind people, do may annoy some of you, some of the things you do annoy me too. The difference is, you don't see me bitching and moning about the way people quote, or their typos, or the char set their message is in, or the way they include long useless signatures that I never read anyway, or any number of things that I find frustrating. But, I do feel it important to make you all aware of the bad taste this community has left in my mouth after only a short time. Why is that? Because everybody talks and nobody listens. There are people that are trying to get answers to their questions and they have to wade through this bs. And all because some blink felt winy this morning. Well I feel winy some mornings too, but I don't take it into e-mail. > happen, pal. This is not what goes down here--except perhaps for those on > this list who look at mail with their eyes on their video monitors. If Those who look at mail with their eyes are here because they want to be. KW is interested primarily because his room mate, and a number of his friends, are blind. He enjoys the interaction with them and the occasional opportunity to help now and them. He, and all of the other sighted people on the list, have the same goals we do. We all want to make linux as accessible as it can be, which is far more than Windows will ever be. This benefits us, but it also benefits those in the sighted community too. I guess, though, you're from the school that says that sight is a handicap and that we don't welcome their kind here. Well, I disagre. I've heard that enough from people who were to narrow-minded to accept me. I refuse to be a part of a group that would treat anybody this way. Even unintentionally. > Actually, most power users I know of use text interfaces a lot. It's the > only way to get much work done. But, I guess you don't know about that > yet. Well, KW already did a good job of addressing this issue. All I can add is that, for many years, I've been productively getting work done on Windows. I don't have anything bad to say about it. But, I'm a geek and I like to program and I'm fascinated by the idea of an opensource o s because I can learn a lot from it. Speakup seems to be a good way to make the console of a linux box accessible to me, and I want to learn about it and possibly help to make it better. And, I guess I want to be able to share what ever I can with other blind people no matter how annoying they might be to me. Well this has gotten way to long already. Perhaps we can now move on to something constructive. Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... html mail Chris Peterson ` (3 preceding siblings ...) ` Janina Sajka @ ` William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 ` Geoff Shang 5 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > No wonder I can't stand blind people... Looks like you're on the wrong list. AFAIK, all but two members are blind. And it's not just blind folks. Try posting your HTML crap on any of the RedHat lists. I think you'll find this list to be relatively polite about it. 73. Bill in Denver ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: html mail... html mail Chris Peterson ` (4 preceding siblings ...) ` William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 @ ` Geoff Shang 5 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Geoff Shang @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi: As has been sited already, many many mailing lists prohibit HTML messages, and some even flatly refuse to accept them. HTML provides no functional advantage over plain text. If your client cannot process properly formed URLs in the message text, then this is a limitation of your client, not of plain text. Pine and many other clients will allow you to click a URL written in plain text in an E-mail message. Geoff. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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