Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Gregory Nowak]

Hi KatolaZ and the speakup list,
KatolaZ, I'm sending a cc to the speakup list, which is full of blind
GNU/Linux speakup user's. I have my own thoughts on your comments
below, but my preferences aren't everyone else's. So, I think it's a
really good idea to give you more feedback at this point in our
discussion. Fellow speakup listers, the images that KatolaZ is
working on can be found at:

<http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu>

As I type this, we have a beep at the isolinux boot prompt, which
sounds to me like three beeps. You can either press enter here, or
wait a few seconds more. If you are booting from a burned cd, it will
spin for a bit. If you are booting some other way, wait maybe three
minutes at most, probably less. Either way, then type "root", and
"toor" as the password to login. Then to start speakup, type:

modprobe speakup_soft

followed by

service espeakup start

You should then hopefully get software speech. The images also include
brltty, which is started by default, and configured for a usb
display. Since brltty and speakup both want to use the numpad, you
will have to do service brltty stop to stop brltty, so speakup can
control the numpad. The alternative is to use speakup's laptop layout,
which does work just fine. The images include yasr as well, which I
haven't tested yet.

Comments are inline.


On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:54:09AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 03:33:05PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > Hi again,
> > as far as getting agetty to play ctrl+g ... I don't know of a way to
> > do that. You can however simply edit /etc/issue, and put a ctrl+g into
> > that. The way I do this in vi is to do vi /etc/issue.
> > Then I do "i" to insert at the beginning, and then I do ctrl+v ctrl+g
> > to insert a ctrl+g into the file. Then I just do esc, followed by
> > ":wq" to save the file.
> > 
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> thanks you very much for your reply. I am actually trying to find a
> solution that is somehow configurable, but maybe that just putting a
> ^G in issue is just fine.
> 
> I have also scripted a simple daemon that "beeps" every second during
> the boot, and emits a certain beep sequence when the boot is complete
> (basically, when getty has been spawned). I will now test it and if
> everything works fine I will include it in the next release.

Ok, thanks. I have tested so far with the
Devuan_1.0_Jessie-Beta_minimal-live_amd64-20160523_0028.iso image. At
the boot prompt, there are what seem to be three beeps one after the
other. I'm personally think that's probably longer than it needs to
be. I would say that a single beep is good enough. I'm also not sure
that progress during boot is necessary. I think that a beep at the
isolinux boot prompt, and another at the login prompt would be enough,
but that's just my personal opinion, others might find progress beeps
useful. I don't think such a a thing has been tried on a livecd before.

> 
> I was also thinking of "marking" the bootloader entries with beeps,
> but I don'w know what is the best way to do that. Basically, at the
> moment we have a single beep in each of the "bootable" entries. Maybe
> it might be useful to have 1 beep for the first entry, 2 for the
> second one, and so on? I am not sure though, since we also have in the
> boot menu two or three "special" entries (one is memtest, the other is
> a call to the chainloader, to boot whatever is found in the first
> disk), which should be somehow marked differently.
> 

I have always found it sufficient to know what was in
the boot menu, and to count arrow key presses to get what I wanted to
get to. Having different beeps for each boot entry is another concept
which I don't think has been tried before. I'm not sure
what the majority of blind
users would prefer. Perhaps you will get some feedback here.

> I would appreciate your take on this aspect. I was thinking to have
> something like:
> 
> 1) a single beep for each "normal" boot entry
> 
> 2) two beeps for the special "memtest" entry
> 
> 3) three beeps for the chainloader
> 
> A visually impaired user might just scroll through the first four
> options (a single beep for each line), then bump into the memtest (two
> beeps), then find the chainloader options (three beeps), then come
> back to the first bootable option (one beep)

That sounds reasonable to me.

> 
> Thanks again for your feedback, which is very much appreciated.

Thanks again for your work.

Greg


> 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
> 

-- 
web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.

--
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Shawn Kirkpatrick]

Just a couple of thoughts here.
If you want to generate beeps once the system is booted then try the beep 
command. This command lets you play beeps at a specified frequency and 
length. I've found it very useful to have different tones indicate different 
things during the boot process.
As for starting speakup, maybe have a small script to do this? Something 
that would involve typing only one command and would do all the steps 
needed. The less silent typing the better.
I like the idea of having beeps at the isolinux prompt, I don't think I've 
seen a live cd do that before. I really wish isolinux could do different 
beep tones, then they could be used to indicate different items.
Unfortunately some machines seem to have the beep disabled at boot so this 
may or may not work.

On Thu, 26 May 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Hi KatolaZ and the speakup list,
> KatolaZ, I'm sending a cc to the speakup list, which is full of blind
> GNU/Linux speakup user's. I have my own thoughts on your comments
> below, but my preferences aren't everyone else's. So, I think it's a
> really good idea to give you more feedback at this point in our
> discussion. Fellow speakup listers, the images that KatolaZ is
> working on can be found at:
>
> <http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu>
>
> As I type this, we have a beep at the isolinux boot prompt, which
> sounds to me like three beeps. You can either press enter here, or
> wait a few seconds more. If you are booting from a burned cd, it will
> spin for a bit. If you are booting some other way, wait maybe three
> minutes at most, probably less. Either way, then type "root", and
> "toor" as the password to login. Then to start speakup, type:
>
> modprobe speakup_soft
>
> followed by
>
> service espeakup start
>
> You should then hopefully get software speech. The images also include
> brltty, which is started by default, and configured for a usb
> display. Since brltty and speakup both want to use the numpad, you
> will have to do service brltty stop to stop brltty, so speakup can
> control the numpad. The alternative is to use speakup's laptop layout,
> which does work just fine. The images include yasr as well, which I
> haven't tested yet.
>
> Comments are inline.
>
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:54:09AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 03:33:05PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>>> Hi again,
>>> as far as getting agetty to play ctrl+g ... I don't know of a way to
>>> do that. You can however simply edit /etc/issue, and put a ctrl+g into
>>> that. The way I do this in vi is to do vi /etc/issue.
>>> Then I do "i" to insert at the beginning, and then I do ctrl+v ctrl+g
>>> to insert a ctrl+g into the file. Then I just do esc, followed by
>>> ":wq" to save the file.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> thanks you very much for your reply. I am actually trying to find a
>> solution that is somehow configurable, but maybe that just putting a
>> ^G in issue is just fine.
>>
>> I have also scripted a simple daemon that "beeps" every second during
>> the boot, and emits a certain beep sequence when the boot is complete
>> (basically, when getty has been spawned). I will now test it and if
>> everything works fine I will include it in the next release.
>
> Ok, thanks. I have tested so far with the
> Devuan_1.0_Jessie-Beta_minimal-live_amd64-20160523_0028.iso image. At
> the boot prompt, there are what seem to be three beeps one after the
> other. I'm personally think that's probably longer than it needs to
> be. I would say that a single beep is good enough. I'm also not sure
> that progress during boot is necessary. I think that a beep at the
> isolinux boot prompt, and another at the login prompt would be enough,
> but that's just my personal opinion, others might find progress beeps
> useful. I don't think such a a thing has been tried on a livecd before.
>
>>
>> I was also thinking of "marking" the bootloader entries with beeps,
>> but I don'w know what is the best way to do that. Basically, at the
>> moment we have a single beep in each of the "bootable" entries. Maybe
>> it might be useful to have 1 beep for the first entry, 2 for the
>> second one, and so on? I am not sure though, since we also have in the
>> boot menu two or three "special" entries (one is memtest, the other is
>> a call to the chainloader, to boot whatever is found in the first
>> disk), which should be somehow marked differently.
>>
>
> I have always found it sufficient to know what was in
> the boot menu, and to count arrow key presses to get what I wanted to
> get to. Having different beeps for each boot entry is another concept
> which I don't think has been tried before. I'm not sure
> what the majority of blind
> users would prefer. Perhaps you will get some feedback here.
>
>> I would appreciate your take on this aspect. I was thinking to have
>> something like:
>>
>> 1) a single beep for each "normal" boot entry
>>
>> 2) two beeps for the special "memtest" entry
>>
>> 3) three beeps for the chainloader
>>
>> A visually impaired user might just scroll through the first four
>> options (a single beep for each line), then bump into the memtest (two
>> beeps), then find the chainloader options (three beeps), then come
>> back to the first bootable option (one beep)
>
> That sounds reasonable to me.
>
>>
>> Thanks again for your feedback, which is very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks again for your work.
>
> Greg
>
>
>>
>> HND
>>
>> KatolaZ
>>
>> --
>> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
>>
>
> -- 
> web site: http://www.gregn.net
> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
>
> --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Glenn]

I wish GRUB would do this by default, and perhaps do an increasing tone beep 
as one arrowed down the screen.
Glenn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawn Kirkpatrick" <shawn@shawnk.ca>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." 
<speakup@linux-speakup.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version


Just a couple of thoughts here.
If you want to generate beeps once the system is booted then try the beep
command. This command lets you play beeps at a specified frequency and
length. I've found it very useful to have different tones indicate different
things during the boot process.
As for starting speakup, maybe have a small script to do this? Something
that would involve typing only one command and would do all the steps
needed. The less silent typing the better.
I like the idea of having beeps at the isolinux prompt, I don't think I've
seen a live cd do that before. I really wish isolinux could do different
beep tones, then they could be used to indicate different items.
Unfortunately some machines seem to have the beep disabled at boot so this
may or may not work.

On Thu, 26 May 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Hi KatolaZ and the speakup list,
> KatolaZ, I'm sending a cc to the speakup list, which is full of blind
> GNU/Linux speakup user's. I have my own thoughts on your comments
> below, but my preferences aren't everyone else's. So, I think it's a
> really good idea to give you more feedback at this point in our
> discussion. Fellow speakup listers, the images that KatolaZ is
> working on can be found at:
>
> <http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu>
>
> As I type this, we have a beep at the isolinux boot prompt, which
> sounds to me like three beeps. You can either press enter here, or
> wait a few seconds more. If you are booting from a burned cd, it will
> spin for a bit. If you are booting some other way, wait maybe three
> minutes at most, probably less. Either way, then type "root", and
> "toor" as the password to login. Then to start speakup, type:
>
> modprobe speakup_soft
>
> followed by
>
> service espeakup start
>
> You should then hopefully get software speech. The images also include
> brltty, which is started by default, and configured for a usb
> display. Since brltty and speakup both want to use the numpad, you
> will have to do service brltty stop to stop brltty, so speakup can
> control the numpad. The alternative is to use speakup's laptop layout,
> which does work just fine. The images include yasr as well, which I
> haven't tested yet.
>
> Comments are inline.
>
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:54:09AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 03:33:05PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>>> Hi again,
>>> as far as getting agetty to play ctrl+g ... I don't know of a way to
>>> do that. You can however simply edit /etc/issue, and put a ctrl+g into
>>> that. The way I do this in vi is to do vi /etc/issue.
>>> Then I do "i" to insert at the beginning, and then I do ctrl+v ctrl+g
>>> to insert a ctrl+g into the file. Then I just do esc, followed by
>>> ":wq" to save the file.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> thanks you very much for your reply. I am actually trying to find a
>> solution that is somehow configurable, but maybe that just putting a
>> ^G in issue is just fine.
>>
>> I have also scripted a simple daemon that "beeps" every second during
>> the boot, and emits a certain beep sequence when the boot is complete
>> (basically, when getty has been spawned). I will now test it and if
>> everything works fine I will include it in the next release.
>
> Ok, thanks. I have tested so far with the
> Devuan_1.0_Jessie-Beta_minimal-live_amd64-20160523_0028.iso image. At
> the boot prompt, there are what seem to be three beeps one after the
> other. I'm personally think that's probably longer than it needs to
> be. I would say that a single beep is good enough. I'm also not sure
> that progress during boot is necessary. I think that a beep at the
> isolinux boot prompt, and another at the login prompt would be enough,
> but that's just my personal opinion, others might find progress beeps
> useful. I don't think such a a thing has been tried on a livecd before.
>
>>
>> I was also thinking of "marking" the bootloader entries with beeps,
>> but I don'w know what is the best way to do that. Basically, at the
>> moment we have a single beep in each of the "bootable" entries. Maybe
>> it might be useful to have 1 beep for the first entry, 2 for the
>> second one, and so on? I am not sure though, since we also have in the
>> boot menu two or three "special" entries (one is memtest, the other is
>> a call to the chainloader, to boot whatever is found in the first
>> disk), which should be somehow marked differently.
>>
>
> I have always found it sufficient to know what was in
> the boot menu, and to count arrow key presses to get what I wanted to
> get to. Having different beeps for each boot entry is another concept
> which I don't think has been tried before. I'm not sure
> what the majority of blind
> users would prefer. Perhaps you will get some feedback here.
>
>> I would appreciate your take on this aspect. I was thinking to have
>> something like:
>>
>> 1) a single beep for each "normal" boot entry
>>
>> 2) two beeps for the special "memtest" entry
>>
>> 3) three beeps for the chainloader
>>
>> A visually impaired user might just scroll through the first four
>> options (a single beep for each line), then bump into the memtest (two
>> beeps), then find the chainloader options (three beeps), then come
>> back to the first bootable option (one beep)
>
> That sounds reasonable to me.
>
>>
>> Thanks again for your feedback, which is very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks again for your work.
>
> Greg
>
>
>>
>> HND
>>
>> KatolaZ
>>
>> --
>> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
>>
>
> -- 
> web site: http://www.gregn.net
> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your 
> contacts.
>
> --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@linux-speakup.org
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Hart Larry]

Well Shawn-and-All, I seem to remember Jupitor having helpful progress beeps, 
but its been many years since now Jupitor won't work with my DecTalk USB
Hart

Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Gregory Nowak]

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 05:36:09PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote:
> Just a couple of thoughts here.
> If you want to generate beeps once the system is booted then try the
> beep command. This command lets you play beeps at a specified
> frequency and length. I've found it very useful to have different
> tones indicate different things during the boot process.
> As for starting speakup, maybe have a small script to do this?
> Something that would involve typing only one command and would do
> all the steps needed. The less silent typing the better.
> I like the idea of having beeps at the isolinux prompt, I don't
> think I've seen a live cd do that before. I really wish isolinux
> could do different beep tones, then they could be used to indicate
> different items.
> Unfortunately some machines seem to have the beep disabled at boot
> so this may or may not work.

Thanks for that suggestion. Yes, it would be nice if isolinux was more
flexible. I also wasn't aware that some machines had their pc speaker
disabled by default. We can only do so much as far as that goes. As
for starting speakup automatically, I didn't think that was a good
idea. What if the user wants to use a hardware synth (once those work
again), instead of software speech? I personally like the approach
that grml takes these days, let the user start speakup in whatever way
the user wants, software or hardware speech. What if the user doesn't
want speakup, but wants brltty or yasr instead

Also, KatolaZ isn't on this list, so please either cc your thoughts to
KatolaZ, or send them directly.

Greg


-- 
web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.

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Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Zachary Kline]

> On May 26, 2016, at 6:03 PM, Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for that suggestion. Yes, it would be nice if isolinux was more
> flexible. I also wasn't aware that some machines had their pc speaker
> disabled by default. We can only do so much as far as that goes. As
> for starting speakup automatically, I didn't think that was a good
> idea. What if the user wants to use a hardware synth (once those work
> again), instead of software speech? I personally like the approach
> that grml takes these days, let the user start speakup in whatever way
> the user wants, software or hardware speech. What if the user doesn't
> want speakup, but wants brltty or yasr instead

One thing which should be addressed is multiple sound cards. My current HP laptop has (what also thinks of), as two, since there’s a digital HDMI port. Often, I’d boot a bistro only to find no sound because the HDMI grabbed card0.

Talking ArchLinux has a decent solution to this, but I’ve never seen anything like it employed for other distros.

Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Gregory Nowak]

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:07:56PM -0700, Zachary Kline wrote:
> One thing which should be addressed is multiple sound cards. My current HP laptop has (what also thinks of), as two, since there’s a digital HDMI port. Often, I’d boot a bistro only to find no sound because the HDMI grabbed card0.
> 
> Talking ArchLinux has a decent solution to this, but I’ve never seen anything like it employed for other distros.

Good point which I haven't thought of. I haven't used talking
arch. From what I understand though, it plays a file on all detected
sound cards one by one asking the user to press enter to activate that
particular sound card. Is that about right? Such a file could easily
be generated with espeak, or even espeak itself could be used directly
to keep the squashfs size to a minimum.

We also need to keep in mind that these are images meant for everyone,
including sighted users. I imagine they being the majority would find
it annoying every time they were asked to press enter to activate a
sound card, especially if they didn't understand the point. It would
probably be much like the boot process stopping every time asking
sighted users to select which video output they wanted to use. They
would probably appreciate it, but the majority of us would probably
find that annoying. KatolaZ has already made the first boot option
with no framebuffer as the "accessible" option. Perhaps this sound
card detection could run only if the system is booted using that
particular choice, but not on any of the other choices? Maybe someone
has an even better idea?

Greg


> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.

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Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Chris Brannon]

Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net> writes:

> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:07:56PM -0700, Zachary Kline wrote:
>> Talking ArchLinux has a decent solution to this, but I’ve never seen anything like it employed for other distros.
>
> Good point which I haven't thought of. I haven't used talking
> arch. From what I understand though, it plays a file on all detected
> sound cards one by one asking the user to press enter to activate that
> particular sound card.

That's the quick and dirty solution I came up with about three years
ago.  I don't know if they've optimized it any further.

Getting this to work on an image that is meant for everybody seems like
a more difficult problem.  The best bet is to have a "speech"
option in the boot menu, rather than trying to overload the no
framebuffer option.
Or alternatively, does this image automatically log you into root on
tty1?  If so, just play a beep sound on all of the cards once the image
is booted, and let the user be responsible for starting Speakup
manually, perhaps by running a script named startspeakup.

When I did the first Talking Arch, my basic philosophy was that the user
should be able to boot with as little "blind typing" as possible,
preferably none at all.  At the time, I had a computer without a console
speaker, so I didn't have any way to know when I was at the boot prompt,
aside from trying to guess using the mechanical sound from my CD-ROM
drive.  When booting from USB, you don't even get the mechanical
feedback.  These days, I only use USB, and I carry a TalkingArch flash
drive in my wallet.

If you end up at a root shell as soon as a live image has been
booted, then it isn't too onerous to have to type something like
startspeakup, especially if you know you're sitting at a shell prompt.

Having to select your audio output every time is definitely a bit of a
chore.  I don't know of a good way around it.
Perhaps an option could be made available to only select among certain
classes of audio devices, like PCI, USB, or HDMI?
E.G., startspeakup --sound=pci only tries your PCI audio
devices, while ignoring all the rest?
Anyway, alsa selecting the wrong default audio device is a real problem
in the wild, and I don't know a better way to handle it than manual
selection.

-- Chris

Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[tim]

I remember opensuse 11.0 had a speaking boot menu, there isn't much 
docks on it or even how to get it set up, but apparently they use either 
grub or G something the name escapes me at the moment, but if you hit 
f11 after the POST, and I believe a beep, it would speak and also speak 
as you arrowed threw what device/etc you wished to boot from.



On 05/26/2016 07:49 PM, Glenn wrote:
> I wish GRUB would do this by default, and perhaps do an increasing tone beep
> as one arrowed down the screen.
> Glenn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shawn Kirkpatrick" <shawn@shawnk.ca>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
> <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 7:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version
>
>
> Just a couple of thoughts here.
> If you want to generate beeps once the system is booted then try the beep
> command. This command lets you play beeps at a specified frequency and
> length. I've found it very useful to have different tones indicate different
> things during the boot process.
> As for starting speakup, maybe have a small script to do this? Something
> that would involve typing only one command and would do all the steps
> needed. The less silent typing the better.
> I like the idea of having beeps at the isolinux prompt, I don't think I've
> seen a live cd do that before. I really wish isolinux could do different
> beep tones, then they could be used to indicate different items.
> Unfortunately some machines seem to have the beep disabled at boot so this
> may or may not work.
>
> On Thu, 26 May 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
>> Hi KatolaZ and the speakup list,
>> KatolaZ, I'm sending a cc to the speakup list, which is full of blind
>> GNU/Linux speakup user's. I have my own thoughts on your comments
>> below, but my preferences aren't everyone else's. So, I think it's a
>> really good idea to give you more feedback at this point in our
>> discussion. Fellow speakup listers, the images that KatolaZ is
>> working on can be found at:
>>
>> <http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu>
>>
>> As I type this, we have a beep at the isolinux boot prompt, which
>> sounds to me like three beeps. You can either press enter here, or
>> wait a few seconds more. If you are booting from a burned cd, it will
>> spin for a bit. If you are booting some other way, wait maybe three
>> minutes at most, probably less. Either way, then type "root", and
>> "toor" as the password to login. Then to start speakup, type:
>>
>> modprobe speakup_soft
>>
>> followed by
>>
>> service espeakup start
>>
>> You should then hopefully get software speech. The images also include
>> brltty, which is started by default, and configured for a usb
>> display. Since brltty and speakup both want to use the numpad, you
>> will have to do service brltty stop to stop brltty, so speakup can
>> control the numpad. The alternative is to use speakup's laptop layout,
>> which does work just fine. The images include yasr as well, which I
>> haven't tested yet.
>>
>> Comments are inline.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:54:09AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 03:33:05PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>>>> Hi again,
>>>> as far as getting agetty to play ctrl+g ... I don't know of a way to
>>>> do that. You can however simply edit /etc/issue, and put a ctrl+g into
>>>> that. The way I do this in vi is to do vi /etc/issue.
>>>> Then I do "i" to insert at the beginning, and then I do ctrl+v ctrl+g
>>>> to insert a ctrl+g into the file. Then I just do esc, followed by
>>>> ":wq" to save the file.
>>>>
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>> thanks you very much for your reply. I am actually trying to find a
>>> solution that is somehow configurable, but maybe that just putting a
>>> ^G in issue is just fine.
>>>
>>> I have also scripted a simple daemon that "beeps" every second during
>>> the boot, and emits a certain beep sequence when the boot is complete
>>> (basically, when getty has been spawned). I will now test it and if
>>> everything works fine I will include it in the next release.
>> Ok, thanks. I have tested so far with the
>> Devuan_1.0_Jessie-Beta_minimal-live_amd64-20160523_0028.iso image. At
>> the boot prompt, there are what seem to be three beeps one after the
>> other. I'm personally think that's probably longer than it needs to
>> be. I would say that a single beep is good enough. I'm also not sure
>> that progress during boot is necessary. I think that a beep at the
>> isolinux boot prompt, and another at the login prompt would be enough,
>> but that's just my personal opinion, others might find progress beeps
>> useful. I don't think such a a thing has been tried on a livecd before.
>>
>>> I was also thinking of "marking" the bootloader entries with beeps,
>>> but I don'w know what is the best way to do that. Basically, at the
>>> moment we have a single beep in each of the "bootable" entries. Maybe
>>> it might be useful to have 1 beep for the first entry, 2 for the
>>> second one, and so on? I am not sure though, since we also have in the
>>> boot menu two or three "special" entries (one is memtest, the other is
>>> a call to the chainloader, to boot whatever is found in the first
>>> disk), which should be somehow marked differently.
>>>
>> I have always found it sufficient to know what was in
>> the boot menu, and to count arrow key presses to get what I wanted to
>> get to. Having different beeps for each boot entry is another concept
>> which I don't think has been tried before. I'm not sure
>> what the majority of blind
>> users would prefer. Perhaps you will get some feedback here.
>>
>>> I would appreciate your take on this aspect. I was thinking to have
>>> something like:
>>>
>>> 1) a single beep for each "normal" boot entry
>>>
>>> 2) two beeps for the special "memtest" entry
>>>
>>> 3) three beeps for the chainloader
>>>
>>> A visually impaired user might just scroll through the first four
>>> options (a single beep for each line), then bump into the memtest (two
>>> beeps), then find the chainloader options (three beeps), then come
>>> back to the first bootable option (one beep)
>> That sounds reasonable to me.
>>
>>> Thanks again for your feedback, which is very much appreciated.
>> Thanks again for your work.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>> HND
>>>
>>> KatolaZ
>>>
>>> --
>>> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>>> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>>> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>>> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
>>>
>> -- 
>> web site: http://www.gregn.net
>> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
>> skype: gregn1
>> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your
>> contacts.
>>
>> --
>> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Shawn Kirkpatrick]

Grub does have a play command that can be used to play different tones. I 
use it to let me know when the grub screen is up and when an entry has been 
selected. I don't think there's any way to have it beep as you arrow around 
thoe but maybe the developers would be willing to put in this feature since 
all the needed parts are already there.

On Thu, 26 May 2016, Glenn wrote:

> I wish GRUB would do this by default, and perhaps do an increasing tone beep
> as one arrowed down the screen.
> Glenn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shawn Kirkpatrick" <shawn@shawnk.ca>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
> <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 7:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version
>
>
> Just a couple of thoughts here.
> If you want to generate beeps once the system is booted then try the beep
> command. This command lets you play beeps at a specified frequency and
> length. I've found it very useful to have different tones indicate different
> things during the boot process.
> As for starting speakup, maybe have a small script to do this? Something
> that would involve typing only one command and would do all the steps
> needed. The less silent typing the better.
> I like the idea of having beeps at the isolinux prompt, I don't think I've
> seen a live cd do that before. I really wish isolinux could do different
> beep tones, then they could be used to indicate different items.
> Unfortunately some machines seem to have the beep disabled at boot so this
> may or may not work.
>
> On Thu, 26 May 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
>> Hi KatolaZ and the speakup list,
>> KatolaZ, I'm sending a cc to the speakup list, which is full of blind
>> GNU/Linux speakup user's. I have my own thoughts on your comments
>> below, but my preferences aren't everyone else's. So, I think it's a
>> really good idea to give you more feedback at this point in our
>> discussion. Fellow speakup listers, the images that KatolaZ is
>> working on can be found at:
>>
>> <http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu>
>>
>> As I type this, we have a beep at the isolinux boot prompt, which
>> sounds to me like three beeps. You can either press enter here, or
>> wait a few seconds more. If you are booting from a burned cd, it will
>> spin for a bit. If you are booting some other way, wait maybe three
>> minutes at most, probably less. Either way, then type "root", and
>> "toor" as the password to login. Then to start speakup, type:
>>
>> modprobe speakup_soft
>>
>> followed by
>>
>> service espeakup start
>>
>> You should then hopefully get software speech. The images also include
>> brltty, which is started by default, and configured for a usb
>> display. Since brltty and speakup both want to use the numpad, you
>> will have to do service brltty stop to stop brltty, so speakup can
>> control the numpad. The alternative is to use speakup's laptop layout,
>> which does work just fine. The images include yasr as well, which I
>> haven't tested yet.
>>
>> Comments are inline.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:54:09AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 03:33:05PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>>>> Hi again,
>>>> as far as getting agetty to play ctrl+g ... I don't know of a way to
>>>> do that. You can however simply edit /etc/issue, and put a ctrl+g into
>>>> that. The way I do this in vi is to do vi /etc/issue.
>>>> Then I do "i" to insert at the beginning, and then I do ctrl+v ctrl+g
>>>> to insert a ctrl+g into the file. Then I just do esc, followed by
>>>> ":wq" to save the file.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>> thanks you very much for your reply. I am actually trying to find a
>>> solution that is somehow configurable, but maybe that just putting a
>>> ^G in issue is just fine.
>>>
>>> I have also scripted a simple daemon that "beeps" every second during
>>> the boot, and emits a certain beep sequence when the boot is complete
>>> (basically, when getty has been spawned). I will now test it and if
>>> everything works fine I will include it in the next release.
>>
>> Ok, thanks. I have tested so far with the
>> Devuan_1.0_Jessie-Beta_minimal-live_amd64-20160523_0028.iso image. At
>> the boot prompt, there are what seem to be three beeps one after the
>> other. I'm personally think that's probably longer than it needs to
>> be. I would say that a single beep is good enough. I'm also not sure
>> that progress during boot is necessary. I think that a beep at the
>> isolinux boot prompt, and another at the login prompt would be enough,
>> but that's just my personal opinion, others might find progress beeps
>> useful. I don't think such a a thing has been tried on a livecd before.
>>
>>>
>>> I was also thinking of "marking" the bootloader entries with beeps,
>>> but I don'w know what is the best way to do that. Basically, at the
>>> moment we have a single beep in each of the "bootable" entries. Maybe
>>> it might be useful to have 1 beep for the first entry, 2 for the
>>> second one, and so on? I am not sure though, since we also have in the
>>> boot menu two or three "special" entries (one is memtest, the other is
>>> a call to the chainloader, to boot whatever is found in the first
>>> disk), which should be somehow marked differently.
>>>
>>
>> I have always found it sufficient to know what was in
>> the boot menu, and to count arrow key presses to get what I wanted to
>> get to. Having different beeps for each boot entry is another concept
>> which I don't think has been tried before. I'm not sure
>> what the majority of blind
>> users would prefer. Perhaps you will get some feedback here.
>>
>>> I would appreciate your take on this aspect. I was thinking to have
>>> something like:
>>>
>>> 1) a single beep for each "normal" boot entry
>>>
>>> 2) two beeps for the special "memtest" entry
>>>
>>> 3) three beeps for the chainloader
>>>
>>> A visually impaired user might just scroll through the first four
>>> options (a single beep for each line), then bump into the memtest (two
>>> beeps), then find the chainloader options (three beeps), then come
>>> back to the first bootable option (one beep)
>>
>> That sounds reasonable to me.
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your feedback, which is very much appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks again for your work.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>>
>>> HND
>>>
>>> KatolaZ
>>>
>>> --
>>> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>>> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>>> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>>> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
>>>
>>
>> --
>> web site: http://www.gregn.net
>> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
>> skype: gregn1
>> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your
>> contacts.
>>
>> --
>> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

RE: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Kelly Prescott]

I would be interested in seeing better feedback at the initial boot prompt.
If that comes from multiple beeps, different tones, or some combination, I would like to see that.
If That happens, I suspect we would incorporate it into the TalkingArch distribution.
I also have TalkingArch every where I go.  I am also probably a little biased about TalkingArch as I am one of the maintainers, but I have found it has saved my bacon so many times.
It is my primary distro on both my laptops and I have a custom backup solution I use for customers which is based on the TalkingArch distro.
All of the scripts etc for the sound card stuff is open source so you could certainly integrate it with another distribution.

Kp

Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Jude DaShiell]

aplay is probably available and creation of a login.wav file could be 
done with a command left in rc.local too.  I did get espeak talking and 
have a doubletalk so can probably test yasr with that.  Unfortunately 
since I have only a wifi connection in computer's location now, I 
couldn't get the wifi adapter up yet.  If this computer could boot from 
a usb port I could put the image on a flash drive then do configuration 
on that flash drive and boot the computer from that flash drive. 
Unfortunately it's an old amd k8 athelon machine that won't boot from 
usb.  If I get to an ethernet connection though this ought to work fine 
as a live disk.

On Thu, 26 May 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 19:23:51
> From: Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net>
> Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>     <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> To: KatolaZ <katolaz@freaknet.org>
> Cc: speakup@linux-speakup.org
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version
> 
> Hi KatolaZ and the speakup list,
> KatolaZ, I'm sending a cc to the speakup list, which is full of blind
> GNU/Linux speakup user's. I have my own thoughts on your comments
> below, but my preferences aren't everyone else's. So, I think it's a
> really good idea to give you more feedback at this point in our
> discussion. Fellow speakup listers, the images that KatolaZ is
> working on can be found at:
>
> <http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu>
>
> As I type this, we have a beep at the isolinux boot prompt, which
> sounds to me like three beeps. You can either press enter here, or
> wait a few seconds more. If you are booting from a burned cd, it will
> spin for a bit. If you are booting some other way, wait maybe three
> minutes at most, probably less. Either way, then type "root", and
> "toor" as the password to login. Then to start speakup, type:
>
> modprobe speakup_soft
>
> followed by
>
> service espeakup start
>
> You should then hopefully get software speech. The images also include
> brltty, which is started by default, and configured for a usb
> display. Since brltty and speakup both want to use the numpad, you
> will have to do service brltty stop to stop brltty, so speakup can
> control the numpad. The alternative is to use speakup's laptop layout,
> which does work just fine. The images include yasr as well, which I
> haven't tested yet.
>
> Comments are inline.
>
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:54:09AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 03:33:05PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>> > Hi again,
>> > as far as getting agetty to play ctrl+g ... I don't know of a way to
>> > do that. You can however simply edit /etc/issue, and put a ctrl+g into
>> > that. The way I do this in vi is to do vi /etc/issue.
>> > Then I do "i" to insert at the beginning, and then I do ctrl+v ctrl+g
>> > to insert a ctrl+g into the file. Then I just do esc, followed by
>> > ":wq" to save the file.
>> > 
>> 
>> Hi Greg,
>> 
>> thanks you very much for your reply. I am actually trying to find a
>> solution that is somehow configurable, but maybe that just putting a
>> ^G in issue is just fine.
>> 
>> I have also scripted a simple daemon that "beeps" every second during
>> the boot, and emits a certain beep sequence when the boot is complete
>> (basically, when getty has been spawned). I will now test it and if
>> everything works fine I will include it in the next release.
>
> Ok, thanks. I have tested so far with the
> Devuan_1.0_Jessie-Beta_minimal-live_amd64-20160523_0028.iso image. At
> the boot prompt, there are what seem to be three beeps one after the
> other. I'm personally think that's probably longer than it needs to
> be. I would say that a single beep is good enough. I'm also not sure
> that progress during boot is necessary. I think that a beep at the
> isolinux boot prompt, and another at the login prompt would be enough,
> but that's just my personal opinion, others might find progress beeps
> useful. I don't think such a a thing has been tried on a livecd before.
>
>> 
>> I was also thinking of "marking" the bootloader entries with beeps,
>> but I don'w know what is the best way to do that. Basically, at the
>> moment we have a single beep in each of the "bootable" entries. Maybe
>> it might be useful to have 1 beep for the first entry, 2 for the
>> second one, and so on? I am not sure though, since we also have in the
>> boot menu two or three "special" entries (one is memtest, the other is
>> a call to the chainloader, to boot whatever is found in the first
>> disk), which should be somehow marked differently.
>> 
>
> I have always found it sufficient to know what was in
> the boot menu, and to count arrow key presses to get what I wanted to
> get to. Having different beeps for each boot entry is another concept
> which I don't think has been tried before. I'm not sure
> what the majority of blind
> users would prefer. Perhaps you will get some feedback here.
>
>> I would appreciate your take on this aspect. I was thinking to have
>> something like:
>> 
>> 1) a single beep for each "normal" boot entry
>> 
>> 2) two beeps for the special "memtest" entry
>> 
>> 3) three beeps for the chainloader
>> 
>> A visually impaired user might just scroll through the first four
>> options (a single beep for each line), then bump into the memtest (two
>> beeps), then find the chainloader options (three beeps), then come
>> back to the first bootable option (one beep)
>
> That sounds reasonable to me.
>
>> 
>> Thanks again for your feedback, which is very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks again for your work.
>
> Greg
>
>
>> 
>> HND
>> 
>> KatolaZ
>> 
>> -- 
>> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
>> 
>
> -- 
> web site: http://www.gregn.net
> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
>
> --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Jude DaShiell]

That's right, and you can even have talkingarch play over usb speakers.

On Thu, 26 May 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 22:00:27
> From: Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net>
> Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>     <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> To: speakup@linux-speakup.org
> Cc: katolaz@freaknet.org
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version
> 
> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:07:56PM -0700, Zachary Kline wrote:
>> One thing which should be addressed is multiple sound cards. My current HP laptop has (what also thinks of), as two, since there?s a digital HDMI port. Often, I?d boot a bistro only to find no sound because the HDMI grabbed card0.
>> 
>> Talking ArchLinux has a decent solution to this, but I?ve never seen anything like it employed for other distros.
>
> Good point which I haven't thought of. I haven't used talking
> arch. From what I understand though, it plays a file on all detected
> sound cards one by one asking the user to press enter to activate that
> particular sound card. Is that about right? Such a file could easily
> be generated with espeak, or even espeak itself could be used directly
> to keep the squashfs size to a minimum.
>
> We also need to keep in mind that these are images meant for everyone,
> including sighted users. I imagine they being the majority would find
> it annoying every time they were asked to press enter to activate a
> sound card, especially if they didn't understand the point. It would
> probably be much like the boot process stopping every time asking
> sighted users to select which video output they wanted to use. They
> would probably appreciate it, but the majority of us would probably
> find that annoying. KatolaZ has already made the first boot option
> with no framebuffer as the "accessible" option. Perhaps this sound
> card detection could run only if the system is booted using that
> particular choice, but not on any of the other choices? Maybe someone
> has an even better idea?
>
> Greg
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
> web site: http://www.gregn.net
> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
>
> --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Glenn]

Jude,
Can you install GRUB on that older computer and update it with the thumb 
drive in, and thus have included in the GRUB menu?
Otherwise, there are GRUB ISO's for CD's too, for finding thumb drives.
Glenn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@panix.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." 
<speakup@linux-speakup.org>; "KatolaZ" <katolaz@freaknet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version


aplay is probably available and creation of a login.wav file could be
done with a command left in rc.local too.  I did get espeak talking and
have a doubletalk so can probably test yasr with that.  Unfortunately
since I have only a wifi connection in computer's location now, I
couldn't get the wifi adapter up yet.  If this computer could boot from
a usb port I could put the image on a flash drive then do configuration
on that flash drive and boot the computer from that flash drive.
Unfortunately it's an old amd k8 athelon machine that won't boot from
usb.  If I get to an ethernet connection though this ought to work fine
as a live disk.

On Thu, 26 May 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 19:23:51
> From: Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net>
> Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>     <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> To: KatolaZ <katolaz@freaknet.org>
> Cc: speakup@linux-speakup.org
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version
>
> Hi KatolaZ and the speakup list,
> KatolaZ, I'm sending a cc to the speakup list, which is full of blind
> GNU/Linux speakup user's. I have my own thoughts on your comments
> below, but my preferences aren't everyone else's. So, I think it's a
> really good idea to give you more feedback at this point in our
> discussion. Fellow speakup listers, the images that KatolaZ is
> working on can be found at:
>
> <http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu>
>
> As I type this, we have a beep at the isolinux boot prompt, which
> sounds to me like three beeps. You can either press enter here, or
> wait a few seconds more. If you are booting from a burned cd, it will
> spin for a bit. If you are booting some other way, wait maybe three
> minutes at most, probably less. Either way, then type "root", and
> "toor" as the password to login. Then to start speakup, type:
>
> modprobe speakup_soft
>
> followed by
>
> service espeakup start
>
> You should then hopefully get software speech. The images also include
> brltty, which is started by default, and configured for a usb
> display. Since brltty and speakup both want to use the numpad, you
> will have to do service brltty stop to stop brltty, so speakup can
> control the numpad. The alternative is to use speakup's laptop layout,
> which does work just fine. The images include yasr as well, which I
> haven't tested yet.
>
> Comments are inline.
>
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:54:09AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 03:33:05PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>> > Hi again,
>> > as far as getting agetty to play ctrl+g ... I don't know of a way to
>> > do that. You can however simply edit /etc/issue, and put a ctrl+g into
>> > that. The way I do this in vi is to do vi /etc/issue.
>> > Then I do "i" to insert at the beginning, and then I do ctrl+v ctrl+g
>> > to insert a ctrl+g into the file. Then I just do esc, followed by
>> > ":wq" to save the file.
>> >
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> thanks you very much for your reply. I am actually trying to find a
>> solution that is somehow configurable, but maybe that just putting a
>> ^G in issue is just fine.
>>
>> I have also scripted a simple daemon that "beeps" every second during
>> the boot, and emits a certain beep sequence when the boot is complete
>> (basically, when getty has been spawned). I will now test it and if
>> everything works fine I will include it in the next release.
>
> Ok, thanks. I have tested so far with the
> Devuan_1.0_Jessie-Beta_minimal-live_amd64-20160523_0028.iso image. At
> the boot prompt, there are what seem to be three beeps one after the
> other. I'm personally think that's probably longer than it needs to
> be. I would say that a single beep is good enough. I'm also not sure
> that progress during boot is necessary. I think that a beep at the
> isolinux boot prompt, and another at the login prompt would be enough,
> but that's just my personal opinion, others might find progress beeps
> useful. I don't think such a a thing has been tried on a livecd before.
>
>>
>> I was also thinking of "marking" the bootloader entries with beeps,
>> but I don'w know what is the best way to do that. Basically, at the
>> moment we have a single beep in each of the "bootable" entries. Maybe
>> it might be useful to have 1 beep for the first entry, 2 for the
>> second one, and so on? I am not sure though, since we also have in the
>> boot menu two or three "special" entries (one is memtest, the other is
>> a call to the chainloader, to boot whatever is found in the first
>> disk), which should be somehow marked differently.
>>
>
> I have always found it sufficient to know what was in
> the boot menu, and to count arrow key presses to get what I wanted to
> get to. Having different beeps for each boot entry is another concept
> which I don't think has been tried before. I'm not sure
> what the majority of blind
> users would prefer. Perhaps you will get some feedback here.
>
>> I would appreciate your take on this aspect. I was thinking to have
>> something like:
>>
>> 1) a single beep for each "normal" boot entry
>>
>> 2) two beeps for the special "memtest" entry
>>
>> 3) three beeps for the chainloader
>>
>> A visually impaired user might just scroll through the first four
>> options (a single beep for each line), then bump into the memtest (two
>> beeps), then find the chainloader options (three beeps), then come
>> back to the first bootable option (one beep)
>
> That sounds reasonable to me.
>
>>
>> Thanks again for your feedback, which is very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks again for your work.
>
> Greg
>
>
>>
>> HND
>>
>> KatolaZ
>>
>> -- 
>> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
>>
>
> -- 
> web site: http://www.gregn.net
> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your 
> contacts.
>
> --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version

[Jude DaShiell]

I can put the thumbdrive in and run update-grub, thanks for the 
suggestion. On Thu, 2 Jun 2016, Glenn wrote:

> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:37:02
> From: Glenn <glennervin@cableone.net>
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version
> 
> Jude,
> Can you install GRUB on that older computer and update it with the thumb 
> drive in, and thus have included in the GRUB menu?
> Otherwise, there are GRUB ISO's for CD's too, for finding thumb drives.
> Glenn
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@panix.com>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." 
> <speakup@linux-speakup.org>; "KatolaZ" <katolaz@freaknet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version
>
>
> aplay is probably available and creation of a login.wav file could be
> done with a command left in rc.local too.  I did get espeak talking and
> have a doubletalk so can probably test yasr with that.  Unfortunately
> since I have only a wifi connection in computer's location now, I
> couldn't get the wifi adapter up yet.  If this computer could boot from
> a usb port I could put the image on a flash drive then do configuration
> on that flash drive and boot the computer from that flash drive.
> Unfortunately it's an old amd k8 athelon machine that won't boot from
> usb.  If I get to an ethernet connection though this ought to work fine
> as a live disk.
>
> On Thu, 26 May 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
>> Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 19:23:51
>> From: Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net>
>> Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>>     <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
>> To: KatolaZ <katolaz@freaknet.org>
>> Cc: speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version
>>
>> Hi KatolaZ and the speakup list,
>> KatolaZ, I'm sending a cc to the speakup list, which is full of blind
>> GNU/Linux speakup user's. I have my own thoughts on your comments
>> below, but my preferences aren't everyone else's. So, I think it's a
>> really good idea to give you more feedback at this point in our
>> discussion. Fellow speakup listers, the images that KatolaZ is
>> working on can be found at:
>>
>> <http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu>
>>
>> As I type this, we have a beep at the isolinux boot prompt, which
>> sounds to me like three beeps. You can either press enter here, or
>> wait a few seconds more. If you are booting from a burned cd, it will
>> spin for a bit. If you are booting some other way, wait maybe three
>> minutes at most, probably less. Either way, then type "root", and
>> "toor" as the password to login. Then to start speakup, type:
>>
>> modprobe speakup_soft
>>
>> followed by
>>
>> service espeakup start
>>
>> You should then hopefully get software speech. The images also include
>> brltty, which is started by default, and configured for a usb
>> display. Since brltty and speakup both want to use the numpad, you
>> will have to do service brltty stop to stop brltty, so speakup can
>> control the numpad. The alternative is to use speakup's laptop layout,
>> which does work just fine. The images include yasr as well, which I
>> haven't tested yet.
>>
>> Comments are inline.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 06:54:09AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 03:33:05PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>>> > Hi again,
>>> > as far as getting agetty to play ctrl+g ... I don't know of a way to
>>> > do that. You can however simply edit /etc/issue, and put a ctrl+g into
>>> > that. The way I do this in vi is to do vi /etc/issue.
>>> > Then I do "i" to insert at the beginning, and then I do ctrl+v ctrl+g
>>> > to insert a ctrl+g into the file. Then I just do esc, followed by
>>> > ":wq" to save the file.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>> thanks you very much for your reply. I am actually trying to find a
>>> solution that is somehow configurable, but maybe that just putting a
>>> ^G in issue is just fine.
>>>
>>> I have also scripted a simple daemon that "beeps" every second during
>>> the boot, and emits a certain beep sequence when the boot is complete
>>> (basically, when getty has been spawned). I will now test it and if
>>> everything works fine I will include it in the next release.
>>
>> Ok, thanks. I have tested so far with the
>> Devuan_1.0_Jessie-Beta_minimal-live_amd64-20160523_0028.iso image. At
>> the boot prompt, there are what seem to be three beeps one after the
>> other. I'm personally think that's probably longer than it needs to
>> be. I would say that a single beep is good enough. I'm also not sure
>> that progress during boot is necessary. I think that a beep at the
>> isolinux boot prompt, and another at the login prompt would be enough,
>> but that's just my personal opinion, others might find progress beeps
>> useful. I don't think such a a thing has been tried on a livecd before.
>>
>>>
>>> I was also thinking of "marking" the bootloader entries with beeps,
>>> but I don'w know what is the best way to do that. Basically, at the
>>> moment we have a single beep in each of the "bootable" entries. Maybe
>>> it might be useful to have 1 beep for the first entry, 2 for the
>>> second one, and so on? I am not sure though, since we also have in the
>>> boot menu two or three "special" entries (one is memtest, the other is
>>> a call to the chainloader, to boot whatever is found in the first
>>> disk), which should be somehow marked differently.
>>>
>>
>> I have always found it sufficient to know what was in
>> the boot menu, and to count arrow key presses to get what I wanted to
>> get to. Having different beeps for each boot entry is another concept
>> which I don't think has been tried before. I'm not sure
>> what the majority of blind
>> users would prefer. Perhaps you will get some feedback here.
>>
>>> I would appreciate your take on this aspect. I was thinking to have
>>> something like:
>>>
>>> 1) a single beep for each "normal" boot entry
>>>
>>> 2) two beeps for the special "memtest" entry
>>>
>>> 3) three beeps for the chainloader
>>>
>>> A visually impaired user might just scroll through the first four
>>> options (a single beep for each line), then bump into the memtest (two
>>> beeps), then find the chainloader options (three beeps), then come
>>> back to the first bootable option (one beep)
>>
>> That sounds reasonable to me.
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your feedback, which is very much appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks again for your work.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>>
>>> HND
>>>
>>> KatolaZ
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>>> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>>> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>>> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> web site: http://www.gregn.net
>> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
>> skype: gregn1
>> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your 
>> contacts.
>>
>> --
>> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
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