writing spk howto (?)

writing spk howto (?)

[David Bruzos]

Hello everyone:
This is my first time posting to this mailing list.  I have come here many times before to find info about Linux and 
Speakup. I have a running system largely due to the existence of this list.  So, first, I like to thank the people that 
organize it and everyone involved in Speakup for their work.  Kirk is the man!

Last week I searched through the archives for hours to find out how to configure my software synth.  I saw, among other 
things that there are no howtos for discribing this process and that most of the documentation is somewhat outdated.  
Anyway, it would have been much earier for me to setup software speech if there would have been an organized guide or 
howto, that explains how to do it...  I am sure that this is no news to most people in this list!

So, I figured that now that I know how to do it, I can put together such a document.  In fact, I would like to 
contribute by doing this.  I can not program well enough to improve speakup, but I could help out with the docs.  I 
would like to write a general Linux/Speakup howto, but I can not promise that I can finish something like that any time 
soon.  So, the software synth thing is a better short term goal.  I am a full-time student at the University of North 
Florida and soon to be a Dad, so time might be a problem in the 
comming weeks...

I would like to know what other mailing list members think about this.  Are there some reasons why I should not do this?  
Are there other people working on a similar project?  Anywthing is cool.  Oh, I am also a Linux newbey, so I might ask 
simple questions sometimes...

I am 23 years old and totally blind, so speakup is very important for me.  I have been using Linux for about one year 
and used Windows/jfw before that.  I started with Fedora Core 1 and now use 
Fedora Core 2 and Mandrake 10 as well.  The reason for Mandrake is so that I can help my father when required...

Thanx!

David

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Thomas Stivers]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 04:39:31 PM -0500, David Bruzos wrote:
> 
> So, I figured that now that I know how to do it, I can put together such a document.  In fact, I would like to 
> contribute by doing this.  I can not program well enough to improve speakup, but I could help out with the docs.  I 
> would like to write a general Linux/Speakup howto, but I can not promise that I can finish something like that any time 
> soon.  So, the software synth thing is a better short term goal.  I am a full-time student at the University of North 
> Florida and soon to be a Dad, so time might be a problem in the 
> comming weeks...

First of all congratulations. I have been working on the goal of a
speakup howto for a *long* time and you're right it won't likely be done
soon. If you put together something about getting speakup working with a
software synthesizer I would love to encorporate it. I have only had
marginal success so I don't want to document that. Mostly my problems
are with a rather slow system as far as a software synth is concerned
and that my box isn't stable when I try it.

You can see my work to date at
http://www.tomass.dyndns.org/~stivers_t/Speakup-HOWTO/Speakup-HOWTO.html

Janina Sajka has put together an altogether more useful howto for
speakup and fedora the address for which I can not remember. I am sure
any docs you can write for using a software synth would be appreciated.

> I would like to know what other mailing list members think about this.  Are there some reasons why I should not do this?  
> Are there other people working on a similar project?  Anywthing is cool.  Oh, I am also a Linux newbey, so I might ask 
> simple questions sometimes...

I love simple questions, they're the ones that are easy to answer

- -- 
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan

Thomas Stivers	e-mail: stivers_t@tomass.dyndns.org
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Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Willem van der Walt<willem@top.health.gov.za>]

Hi,
Go ahead with the software synth howto.
As you say the docs is a little outdated.
Do you have speakup running using software speech under fedora c2?
If so, I would like to have the details, howto or no howto.
Regards, Willem


On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, David Bruzos wrote:

>
> Hello everyone:
> This is my first time posting to this mailing list.  I have come here many times before to find info about Linux and
> Speakup. I have a running system largely due to the existence of this list.  So, first, I like to thank the people that
> organize it and everyone involved in Speakup for their work.  Kirk is the man!
>
> Last week I searched through the archives for hours to find out how to configure my software synth.  I saw, among other
> things that there are no howtos for discribing this process and that most of the documentation is somewhat outdated.
> Anyway, it would have been much earier for me to setup software speech if there would have been an organized guide or
> howto, that explains how to do it...  I am sure that this is no news to most people in this list!
>
> So, I figured that now that I know how to do it, I can put together such a document.  In fact, I would like to
> contribute by doing this.  I can not program well enough to improve speakup, but I could help out with the docs.  I
> would like to write a general Linux/Speakup howto, but I can not promise that I can finish something like that any time
> soon.  So, the software synth thing is a better short term goal.  I am a full-time student at the University of North
> Florida and soon to be a Dad, so time might be a problem in the
> comming weeks...
>
> I would like to know what other mailing list members think about this.  Are there some reasons why I should not do this?
> Are there other people working on a similar project?  Anywthing is cool.  Oh, I am also a Linux newbey, so I might ask
> simple questions sometimes...
>
> I am 23 years old and totally blind, so speakup is very important for me.  I have been using Linux for about one year
> and used Windows/jfw before that.  I started with Fedora Core 1 and now use
> Fedora Core 2 and Mandrake 10 as well.  The reason for Mandrake is so that I can help my father when required...
>
> Thanx!
>
> David
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[hank]

yes please please do go ahead with the how to!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <willem@top.health.gov.za>
To: "David Bruzos" <david@bruzos.org>
Cc: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: writing spk howto (?)


> Hi,
> Go ahead with the software synth howto.
> As you say the docs is a little outdated.
> Do you have speakup running using software speech under fedora c2?
> If so, I would like to have the details, howto or no howto.
> Regards, Willem
>
>
> On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, David Bruzos wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello everyone:
>> This is my first time posting to this mailing list.  I have come here 
>> many times before to find info about Linux and
>> Speakup. I have a running system largely due to the existence of this 
>> list.  So, first, I like to thank the people that
>> organize it and everyone involved in Speakup for their work.  Kirk is the 
>> man!
>>
>> Last week I searched through the archives for hours to find out how to 
>> configure my software synth.  I saw, among other
>> things that there are no howtos for discribing this process and that most 
>> of the documentation is somewhat outdated.
>> Anyway, it would have been much earier for me to setup software speech if 
>> there would have been an organized guide or
>> howto, that explains how to do it...  I am sure that this is no news to 
>> most people in this list!
>>
>> So, I figured that now that I know how to do it, I can put together such 
>> a document.  In fact, I would like to
>> contribute by doing this.  I can not program well enough to improve 
>> speakup, but I could help out with the docs.  I
>> would like to write a general Linux/Speakup howto, but I can not promise 
>> that I can finish something like that any time
>> soon.  So, the software synth thing is a better short term goal.  I am a 
>> full-time student at the University of North
>> Florida and soon to be a Dad, so time might be a problem in the
>> comming weeks...
>>
>> I would like to know what other mailing list members think about this. 
>> Are there some reasons why I should not do this?
>> Are there other people working on a similar project?  Anywthing is cool. 
>> Oh, I am also a Linux newbey, so I might ask
>> simple questions sometimes...
>>
>> I am 23 years old and totally blind, so speakup is very important for me. 
>> I have been using Linux for about one year
>> and used Windows/jfw before that.  I started with Fedora Core 1 and now 
>> use
>> Fedora Core 2 and Mandrake 10 as well.  The reason for Mandrake is so 
>> that I can help my father when required...
>>
>> Thanx!
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

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Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

David,

I presently have software speech running on my Slackware 10.0 distro,
using version 0.5rc3 of speech-dispatcher, and would be happy to share
my setup with you or help in any other way with the howto. It would be a
valuable contribution to make such a document available, particularly if
it were not specific to any one distro.

Chuck


-- 
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Janina Sajka]

Absolutely, you should do a Speakup with Software Speech HOWTO. The
community needs one desparately, and there aren't enough of us document
writers to go around.

In all honesty, I must tell you that writing a clear, concise, and
complete HOWTO is hard work. I don't say this to discourage you, but to
point out that there's a reason why more HOWTOs aren't just out there to
be plucked off the net. My advice is to start simple, and Speakup With
Software Speech sounds to me like about the right task.

I will tell you that I attempted to write a HOWTO for Speakup on Linux
together with a professional tech writer from IBM. When the tech writer
left IBM this project stalled--after over 6 months of work between us.
That's when I took the pieces that I actually knew something about and
created the Installation HOWTO for the Speakup Modified Fedora Core.

Which reminds me, writing a HOWTO is only part of the job. The rest of
the job is maintaining the HOWTO which means making new versions when
new facts change the advice people need to have.



David Bruzos writes:
> 
> Hello everyone:
> This is my first time posting to this mailing list.  I have come here many times before to find info about Linux and 
> Speakup. I have a running system largely due to the existence of this list.  So, first, I like to thank the people that 
> organize it and everyone involved in Speakup for their work.  Kirk is the man!
> 
> Last week I searched through the archives for hours to find out how to configure my software synth.  I saw, among other 
> things that there are no howtos for discribing this process and that most of the documentation is somewhat outdated.  
> Anyway, it would have been much earier for me to setup software speech if there would have been an organized guide or 
> howto, that explains how to do it...  I am sure that this is no news to most people in this list!
> 
> So, I figured that now that I know how to do it, I can put together such a document.  In fact, I would like to 
> contribute by doing this.  I can not program well enough to improve speakup, but I could help out with the docs.  I 
> would like to write a general Linux/Speakup howto, but I can not promise that I can finish something like that any time 
> soon.  So, the software synth thing is a better short term goal.  I am a full-time student at the University of North 
> Florida and soon to be a Dad, so time might be a problem in the 
> comming weeks...
> 
> I would like to know what other mailing list members think about this.  Are there some reasons why I should not do this?  
> Are there other people working on a similar project?  Anywthing is cool.  Oh, I am also a Linux newbey, so I might ask 
> simple questions sometimes...
> 
> I am 23 years old and totally blind, so speakup is very important for me.  I have been using Linux for about one year 
> and used Windows/jfw before that.  I started with Fedora Core 1 and now use 
> Fedora Core 2 and Mandrake 10 as well.  The reason for Mandrake is so that I can help my father when required...
> 
> Thanx!
> 
> David
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Chair
				Accessibility Workgroup
				Free Standards Group (FSG)

janina@freestandards.org	Phone: +1 202.494.7040

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Janina Sajka]

Thomas Stivers writes:
> On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 04:39:31 PM -0500, David Bruzos wrote:
> Janina Sajka has put together an altogether more useful howto for
> speakup and fedora the address for which I can not remember.

Thanks, Thomas, for this commendation. The HOWTO is at:

http://www.linux-speakup.org/ftp/disks/fedora/HOWTO_INSTALL.html

Hmmm, maybe I should talk to kirk about registering a simpler address.

> 
> > Oh, I am also a Linux newbey, so I might ask 
> > simple questions sometimes...
> 
> I love simple questions, they're the ones that are easy to answer
> 
One problem with HOWTO documents is that experience is not always a good
thing. Of course, you have to get the facts right, and you can't fudge
(too much) on that. But, experienced users often forget the most basic
things, and these are absolutely essential if a HOWTO is to be useful,
especially to other newbies.

Of course, I hope you will leave the common things, such as how to
uncompress a .tar.gz file, to the countless other docs that have
explained this a thousand times!


> - -- 
> "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
> Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
> by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan
> 
> Thomas Stivers	e-mail: stivers_t@tomass.dyndns.org
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFBhtqz5JK61UXLur0RAtDRAJ9kItBJ1dolZFfBsc97uyVQ8eiDOgCfQWES
> ts31Al3+dsWEgi6q6zKLtso=
> =yHQe
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Chair
				Accessibility Workgroup
				Free Standards Group (FSG)

janina@freestandards.org	Phone: +1 202.494.7040

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Janina Sajka]

I aggree with you in a general way, but wonder whether you'd also agree
that one should, when possible, stick to standard procedures on one's
distro. In other words, when on Debian, install a .deb if you can, and
when on Fedora, use an rpm if you can, etc., etc.

Chuck Hallenbeck writes:
> David,
> 
> I presently have software speech running on my Slackware 10.0 distro,
> using version 0.5rc3 of speech-dispatcher, and would be happy to share
> my setup with you or help in any other way with the howto. It would be a
> valuable contribution to make such a document available, particularly if
> it were not specific to any one distro.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> -- 
> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
> Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
> Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Chair
				Accessibility Workgroup
				Free Standards Group (FSG)

janina@freestandards.org	Phone: +1 202.494.7040

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

Sure. That would be great. But I have often read a howto that addresses
only a single distro, relying on distro specific stuff, with no notion
that people using other distros might be out there as well. We get
enough of that from Redmond.


On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Janina Sajka wrote:

> I aggree with you in a general way, but wonder whether you'd also agree
> that one should, when possible, stick to standard procedures on one's
> distro. In other words, when on Debian, install a .deb if you can, and
> when on Fedora, use an rpm if you can, etc., etc.
>
> Chuck Hallenbeck writes:
>> David,
>>
>> I presently have software speech running on my Slackware 10.0 distro,
>> using version 0.5rc3 of speech-dispatcher, and would be happy to share
>> my setup with you or help in any other way with the howto. It would be a
>> valuable contribution to make such a document available, particularly if
>> it were not specific to any one distro.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
>> Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
>> Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Chair
> 				Accessibility Workgroup
> 				Free Standards Group (FSG)
>
> janina@freestandards.org	Phone: +1 202.494.7040
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (74% of Full)
Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Willem van der Walt<willem@top.health.gov.za>]

Hello,
I think the software speech howto is a good idea.
The problem is that we have new linux/unix users trying to do an install.
Even with sighted assistence, one should try to keep things as easy as 
posible.  General instructions tend to pre-suppose unix knowledge where 
distribution specific instructions might not.
I think one should as far as posible, do a combination of general and 
distribution specific instructions.
With the latter, one can give a complex command without explaining it all, 
but knowing the platform, be reasionable sure things will work.


On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Chuck Hallenbeck wrote:

> Sure. That would be great. But I have often read a howto that addresses
> only a single distro, relying on distro specific stuff, with no notion
> that people using other distros might be out there as well. We get
> enough of that from Redmond.
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Janina Sajka wrote:
>
>> I aggree with you in a general way, but wonder whether you'd also agree
>> that one should, when possible, stick to standard procedures on one's
>> distro. In other words, when on Debian, install a .deb if you can, and
>> when on Fedora, use an rpm if you can, etc., etc.
>> 
>> Chuck Hallenbeck writes:
>>> David,
>>> 
>>> I presently have software speech running on my Slackware 10.0 distro,
>>> using version 0.5rc3 of speech-dispatcher, and would be happy to share
>>> my setup with you or help in any other way with the howto. It would be a
>>> valuable contribution to make such a document available, particularly if
>>> it were not specific to any one distro.
>>> 
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
>>> Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
>>> Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 				Janina Sajka, Chair
>> 				Accessibility Workgroup
>> 				Free Standards Group (FSG)
>> 
>> janina@freestandards.org	Phone: +1 202.494.7040
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>
> -- 
> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (74% of Full)
> Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
> Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Sean McMahon]

While we're on the subject of writing howtos, is there some process for getting
these things on the speakup site?  Is there a general cvs project or aria for
documentation     of speakup?
Sean
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: <david@bruzos.org>; "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 6:18 AM
Subject: Re: writing spk howto (?)


> Absolutely, you should do a Speakup with Software Speech HOWTO. The
> community needs one desparately, and there aren't enough of us document
> writers to go around.
>
> In all honesty, I must tell you that writing a clear, concise, and
> complete HOWTO is hard work. I don't say this to discourage you, but to
> point out that there's a reason why more HOWTOs aren't just out there to
> be plucked off the net. My advice is to start simple, and Speakup With
> Software Speech sounds to me like about the right task.
>
> I will tell you that I attempted to write a HOWTO for Speakup on Linux
> together with a professional tech writer from IBM. When the tech writer
> left IBM this project stalled--after over 6 months of work between us.
> That's when I took the pieces that I actually knew something about and
> created the Installation HOWTO for the Speakup Modified Fedora Core.
>
> Which reminds me, writing a HOWTO is only part of the job. The rest of
> the job is maintaining the HOWTO which means making new versions when
> new facts change the advice people need to have.
>
>
>
> David Bruzos writes:
> >
> > Hello everyone:
> > This is my first time posting to this mailing list.  I have come here many
times before to find info about Linux and
> > Speakup. I have a running system largely due to the existence of this list.
So, first, I like to thank the people that
> > organize it and everyone involved in Speakup for their work.  Kirk is the
man!
> >
> > Last week I searched through the archives for hours to find out how to
configure my software synth.  I saw, among other
> > things that there are no howtos for discribing this process and that most of
the documentation is somewhat outdated.
> > Anyway, it would have been much earier for me to setup software speech if
there would have been an organized guide or
> > howto, that explains how to do it...  I am sure that this is no news to most
people in this list!
> >
> > So, I figured that now that I know how to do it, I can put together such a
document.  In fact, I would like to
> > contribute by doing this.  I can not program well enough to improve speakup,
but I could help out with the docs.  I
> > would like to write a general Linux/Speakup howto, but I can not promise
that I can finish something like that any time
> > soon.  So, the software synth thing is a better short term goal.  I am a
full-time student at the University of North
> > Florida and soon to be a Dad, so time might be a problem in the
> > comming weeks...
> >
> > I would like to know what other mailing list members think about this.  Are
there some reasons why I should not do this?
> > Are there other people working on a similar project?  Anywthing is cool.
Oh, I am also a Linux newbey, so I might ask
> > simple questions sometimes...
> >
> > I am 23 years old and totally blind, so speakup is very important for me.  I
have been using Linux for about one year
> > and used Windows/jfw before that.  I started with Fedora Core 1 and now use
> > Fedora Core 2 and Mandrake 10 as well.  The reason for Mandrake is so that I
can help my father when required...
> >
> > Thanx!
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka, Chair
> Accessibility Workgroup
> Free Standards Group (FSG)
>
> janina@freestandards.org Phone: +1 202.494.7040
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Sean McMahon]

The hardest thing for me when following howtos, is there are things which are
distro specific and things which don't behave the same way on each distro.  The
mkinitrd command on Debian V. Fedora is a good example.  If you are going to
write a non-distro specific howto, it has to either be entirely non-distro
specific or must explain some of the things you tried as specific to your
distro.  I don't want to sound to "idiot proof", but these things are being read
by people like myself who come from a computer world where things either work or
don't and little tweeking.
</rant>
Sean
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: writing spk howto (?)


> I aggree with you in a general way, but wonder whether you'd also agree
> that one should, when possible, stick to standard procedures on one's
> distro. In other words, when on Debian, install a .deb if you can, and
> when on Fedora, use an rpm if you can, etc., etc.
>
> Chuck Hallenbeck writes:
> > David,
> >
> > I presently have software speech running on my Slackware 10.0 distro,
> > using version 0.5rc3 of speech-dispatcher, and would be happy to share
> > my setup with you or help in any other way with the howto. It would be a
> > valuable contribution to make such a document available, particularly if
> > it were not specific to any one distro.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
> > Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
> > Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka, Chair
> Accessibility Workgroup
> Free Standards Group (FSG)
>
> janina@freestandards.org Phone: +1 202.494.7040
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Janina Sajka]

Well, I think it would not be hard to point at all kinds of
documentation that misses one major point or another.

Fact is, dependencies are important and a system's functionality can
easily become impaired by failing to manage dependencies appropriately.
It seems to me the fact that so few of us build our Linux installations
from scratch is ample testimony to this fact.

As far as I now, there are not any package files for speechd-up as of
yet. If memroy serves, there is a .deb for speech-dispatcher. Do you
really think it doesn't matter whether a someone uses the package or
attempts to build from scratch? Isn't it even more important for a
newbie to understand this?

Chuck Hallenbeck writes:
> Sure. That would be great. But I have often read a howto that addresses
> only a single distro, relying on distro specific stuff, with no notion
> that people using other distros might be out there as well. We get
> enough of that from Redmond.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> >I aggree with you in a general way, but wonder whether you'd also agree
> >that one should, when possible, stick to standard procedures on one's
> >distro. In other words, when on Debian, install a .deb if you can, and
> >when on Fedora, use an rpm if you can, etc., etc.
> >
> >Chuck Hallenbeck writes:
> >>David,
> >>
> >>I presently have software speech running on my Slackware 10.0 distro,
> >>using version 0.5rc3 of speech-dispatcher, and would be happy to share
> >>my setup with you or help in any other way with the howto. It would be a
> >>valuable contribution to make such a document available, particularly if
> >>it were not specific to any one distro.
> >>
> >>Chuck
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
> >>Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
> >>Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Speakup mailing list
> >>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >--
> >
> >				Janina Sajka, Chair
> >				Accessibility Workgroup
> >				Free Standards Group (FSG)
> >
> >janina@freestandards.org	Phone: +1 202.494.7040
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> -- 
> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (74% of Full)
> Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
> Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Chair
				Accessibility Workgroup
				Free Standards Group (FSG)

janina@freestandards.org	Phone: +1 202.494.7040

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Janina Sajka]

Precisely. And Kirk is the boss.

Sean McMahon writes:
> While we're on the subject of writing howtos, is there some process for getting
> these things on the speakup site?  Is there a general cvs project or aria for
> documentation     of speakup?
> Sean
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: <david@bruzos.org>; "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
> <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 6:18 AM
> Subject: Re: writing spk howto (?)
> 
> 
> > Absolutely, you should do a Speakup with Software Speech HOWTO. The
> > community needs one desparately, and there aren't enough of us document
> > writers to go around.
> >
> > In all honesty, I must tell you that writing a clear, concise, and
> > complete HOWTO is hard work. I don't say this to discourage you, but to
> > point out that there's a reason why more HOWTOs aren't just out there to
> > be plucked off the net. My advice is to start simple, and Speakup With
> > Software Speech sounds to me like about the right task.
> >
> > I will tell you that I attempted to write a HOWTO for Speakup on Linux
> > together with a professional tech writer from IBM. When the tech writer
> > left IBM this project stalled--after over 6 months of work between us.
> > That's when I took the pieces that I actually knew something about and
> > created the Installation HOWTO for the Speakup Modified Fedora Core.
> >
> > Which reminds me, writing a HOWTO is only part of the job. The rest of
> > the job is maintaining the HOWTO which means making new versions when
> > new facts change the advice people need to have.
> >
> >
> >
> > David Bruzos writes:
> > >
> > > Hello everyone:
> > > This is my first time posting to this mailing list.  I have come here many
> times before to find info about Linux and
> > > Speakup. I have a running system largely due to the existence of this list.
> So, first, I like to thank the people that
> > > organize it and everyone involved in Speakup for their work.  Kirk is the
> man!
> > >
> > > Last week I searched through the archives for hours to find out how to
> configure my software synth.  I saw, among other
> > > things that there are no howtos for discribing this process and that most of
> the documentation is somewhat outdated.
> > > Anyway, it would have been much earier for me to setup software speech if
> there would have been an organized guide or
> > > howto, that explains how to do it...  I am sure that this is no news to most
> people in this list!
> > >
> > > So, I figured that now that I know how to do it, I can put together such a
> document.  In fact, I would like to
> > > contribute by doing this.  I can not program well enough to improve speakup,
> but I could help out with the docs.  I
> > > would like to write a general Linux/Speakup howto, but I can not promise
> that I can finish something like that any time
> > > soon.  So, the software synth thing is a better short term goal.  I am a
> full-time student at the University of North
> > > Florida and soon to be a Dad, so time might be a problem in the
> > > comming weeks...
> > >
> > > I would like to know what other mailing list members think about this.  Are
> there some reasons why I should not do this?
> > > Are there other people working on a similar project?  Anywthing is cool.
> Oh, I am also a Linux newbey, so I might ask
> > > simple questions sometimes...
> > >
> > > I am 23 years old and totally blind, so speakup is very important for me.  I
> have been using Linux for about one year
> > > and used Windows/jfw before that.  I started with Fedora Core 1 and now use
> > > Fedora Core 2 and Mandrake 10 as well.  The reason for Mandrake is so that I
> can help my father when required...
> > >
> > > Thanx!
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Chair
> > Accessibility Workgroup
> > Free Standards Group (FSG)
> >
> > janina@freestandards.org Phone: +1 202.494.7040
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Chair
				Accessibility Workgroup
				Free Standards Group (FSG)

janina@freestandards.org	Phone: +1 202.494.7040

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.  The ideal HOWTO in this case would hava a section for each distro.
I don't believe there is any easy way to just write instructions that
are independent of a specific distro.
For example, I only have to build speechd-up from CVS on my Debian box.
Unstable has a Debian package for speech-dispatcher 0.5. I believe the
version in testing is still at 0.4, but haven't checked.
I have to disagree with Chuck on this one.  When I look for a HOWTO, I
try to find a Debian specific one first and only use a "general" HOWTO
as a last resort.  I've found doing things my distro's way just makes my
life easier.

          Kenny
	  

On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 06:40:36AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Well, I think it would not be hard to point at all kinds of
> documentation that misses one major point or another.
> 
> Fact is, dependencies are important and a system's functionality can
> easily become impaired by failing to manage dependencies appropriately.
> It seems to me the fact that so few of us build our Linux installations
> from scratch is ample testimony to this fact.
> 
> As far as I now, there are not any package files for speechd-up as of
> yet. If memroy serves, there is a .deb for speech-dispatcher. Do you
> really think it doesn't matter whether a someone uses the package or
> attempts to build from scratch? Isn't it even more important for a
> newbie to understand this?
> 
> Chuck Hallenbeck writes:
> > Sure. That would be great. But I have often read a howto that addresses
> > only a single distro, relying on distro specific stuff, with no notion
> > that people using other distros might be out there as well. We get
> > enough of that from Redmond.
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > 
> > >I aggree with you in a general way, but wonder whether you'd also agree
> > >that one should, when possible, stick to standard procedures on one's
> > >distro. In other words, when on Debian, install a .deb if you can, and
> > >when on Fedora, use an rpm if you can, etc., etc.
> > >
> > >Chuck Hallenbeck writes:
> > >>David,
> > >>
> > >>I presently have software speech running on my Slackware 10.0 distro,
> > >>using version 0.5rc3 of speech-dispatcher, and would be happy to share
> > >>my setup with you or help in any other way with the howto. It would be a
> > >>valuable contribution to make such a document available, particularly if
> > >>it were not specific to any one distro.
> > >>

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

I guess I need to clarify myself on this. Kenny's ideas seem exactly
right to me. What I intended to suggest was the need to avoid a howto
which was based exclusively on one distro without recognizing that
others exist. Something that has sections such as:

For Debian users, do this:

For Redhat/Fedora users, do this:

For Slackware users, do this:

My own experience reading howto's has been disappointing when, for
example, a discussion of installing a name server describes the steps
for Redhat users, with no alternative steps given for persons who do not
have the distro specific configuration tools to run.

Let me also say that if it were necessary to start with a good howto for
just Degbian, say, or just Fedora, that would still be better than not
having a howto at all.

Without checking back on my original post, I don't think I am really in
disagreement with Janina or Kenny here.

Chuck


On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Kenny Hitt wrote:

> Hi.  The ideal HOWTO in this case would hava a section for each distro.
> I don't believe there is any easy way to just write instructions that
> are independent of a specific distro.
> For example, I only have to build speechd-up from CVS on my Debian box.
> Unstable has a Debian package for speech-dispatcher 0.5. I believe the
> version in testing is still at 0.4, but haven't checked.
> I have to disagree with Chuck on this one.  When I look for a HOWTO, I
> try to find a Debian specific one first and only use a "general" HOWTO
> as a last resort.  I've found doing things my distro's way just makes my
> life easier.
>
>          Kenny

-- 
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (66% of Full)
Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074

Re: writing spk howto (?)

[Janina Sajka]

With this clarification, Chuck, I think we're all sync sync.


Chuck Hallenbeck writes:
> I guess I need to clarify myself on this. Kenny's ideas seem exactly
> right to me. What I intended to suggest was the need to avoid a howto
> which was based exclusively on one distro without recognizing that
> others exist. Something that has sections such as:
> 
> For Debian users, do this:
> 
> For Redhat/Fedora users, do this:
> 
> For Slackware users, do this:
> 
> My own experience reading howto's has been disappointing when, for
> example, a discussion of installing a name server describes the steps
> for Redhat users, with no alternative steps given for persons who do not
> have the distro specific configuration tools to run.
> 
> Let me also say that if it were necessary to start with a good howto for
> just Degbian, say, or just Fedora, that would still be better than not
> having a howto at all.
> 
> Without checking back on my original post, I don't think I am really in
> disagreement with Janina or Kenny here.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Kenny Hitt wrote:
> 
> >Hi.  The ideal HOWTO in this case would hava a section for each distro.
> >I don't believe there is any easy way to just write instructions that
> >are independent of a specific distro.
> >For example, I only have to build speechd-up from CVS on my Debian box.
> >Unstable has a Debian package for speech-dispatcher 0.5. I believe the
> >version in testing is still at 0.4, but haven't checked.
> >I have to disagree with Chuck on this one.  When I look for a HOWTO, I
> >try to find a Debian specific one first and only use a "general" HOWTO
> >as a last resort.  I've found doing things my distro's way just makes my
> >life easier.
> >
> >         Kenny
> 
> -- 
> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (66% of Full)
> Home page at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
> Speakfreely address 24.105.197.112:2074
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Chair
				Accessibility Workgroup
				Free Standards Group (FSG)

janina@freestandards.org	Phone: +1 202.494.7040