Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Debee Norling]

Interesting that even you experienced users have editing troubles.

I think the next edit to lilo.conf then will be a way to let me log in with
a terminal. My trusty old Toshiba T1200 laptop with sounding board still
works fine with como and a variety of screen readers, and I never had
trouble using Vi or pico that way.

I'm really hoping to be able to program using Speakup but I need an editor
that I don't have to think about.


       --   Debee

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ah well, I get around that by writing code on my trusty Braille 'n
Speak, and then transfer it for compiling once I've written it. I then
use the editor to fix any errors I get. May not work for everyone, but
it's worked for me for a number of years now (smile).

Greg


On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 10:12:40AM -0700, Debee Norling wrote:
> Interesting that even you experienced users have editing troubles.
> 
> I think the next edit to lilo.conf then will be a way to let me log in with
> a terminal. My trusty old Toshiba T1200 laptop with sounding board still
> works fine with como and a variety of screen readers, and I never had
> trouble using Vi or pico that way.
> 
> I'm really hoping to be able to program using Speakup but I need an editor
> that I don't have to think about.
> 
> 
>        --   Debee
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> !DSPAM:40a25cba280921798322069!
> 
> 

- -- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

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Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Roy Nickelson]

Hi Greg,
How do you transfer the files between the bns and linux?  The other 
question would be how would I kill brltty so the bns could use the port 
the braille display is conected too?
Roy
 On Wed, 12 May 2004, Gregory Nowak 
wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Ah well, I get around that by writing code on my trusty Braille 'n
> Speak, and then transfer it for compiling once I've written it. I then
> use the editor to fix any errors I get. May not work for everyone, but
> it's worked for me for a number of years now (smile).
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 10:12:40AM -0700, Debee Norling wrote:
> > Interesting that even you experienced users have editing troubles.
> > 
> > I think the next edit to lilo.conf then will be a way to let me log in with
> > a terminal. My trusty old Toshiba T1200 laptop with sounding board still
> > works fine with como and a variety of screen readers, and I never had
> > trouble using Vi or pico that way.
> > 
> > I'm really hoping to be able to program using Speakup but I need an editor
> > that I don't have to think about.
> > 
> > 
> >        --   Debee
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> > !DSPAM:40a25cba280921798322069!
> > 
> > 
> 
> - -- 
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFAomGH7s9z/XlyUyARApAjAKCiOn15BoIN3UCfJvnOi37+O8kb1ACgmxDd
> NHamj6ZIkbfWZMQ3IbfMEX4=
> =d0iq
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

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Hash: SHA1

I transfer files between the bns and linux in 2 ways. The first way is
to use minicom, which works nicely. The second way is when I've used
the bns as a terminal at times, I used rb and sb to do the file
transfers, which had problems when transferring multiple files.
I've also used my copy of pcdisk under dosemu, which worked nicely
too.


Greg


On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 02:18:20PM -0400, Roy Nickelson wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> How do you transfer the files between the bns and linux?  The other 
> question would be how would I kill brltty so the bns could use the port 
> the braille display is conected too?
> Roy
>  On Wed, 12 May 2004, Gregory Nowak 
> wrote:
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > Ah well, I get around that by writing code on my trusty Braille 'n
> > Speak, and then transfer it for compiling once I've written it. I then
> > use the editor to fix any errors I get. May not work for everyone, but
> > it's worked for me for a number of years now (smile).
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 10:12:40AM -0700, Debee Norling wrote:
> > > Interesting that even you experienced users have editing troubles.
> > > 
> > > I think the next edit to lilo.conf then will be a way to let me log in with
> > > a terminal. My trusty old Toshiba T1200 laptop with sounding board still
> > > works fine with como and a variety of screen readers, and I never had
> > > trouble using Vi or pico that way.
> > > 
> > > I'm really hoping to be able to program using Speakup but I need an editor
> > > that I don't have to think about.
> > > 
> > > 
> > >        --   Debee
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > - -- 
> > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> > 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
> > 
> > iD8DBQFAomGH7s9z/XlyUyARApAjAKCiOn15BoIN3UCfJvnOi37+O8kb1ACgmxDd
> > NHamj6ZIkbfWZMQ3IbfMEX4=
> > =d0iq
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> !DSPAM:40a26ae6286131727368746!
> 
> 

- -- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

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RE: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Debee Norling]

There's a great rant at linuxmafia.com about Windows users who still edit on
their Windows box instead of learning Linux. I am determined not to do that,
though I had a fleeting desire this morning to telnet in to the box at home
using my JAWS and Braille display at work to get these edits out of the way.

--Debee

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Buddy Brannan]

How 'bout nano? It's just almost exactly like pico except more gooder
more betererererer, and the backspace key reads properly :) 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
------------------------------------------------------------
Help us bring our child home! Visit http://ouradoption.brannan.name to 
find out how.

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Kirk Reiser]

This is bullshit!  There are extremely powerful editors you can use and
they work just fine.  Either vim or emacs can do just about anything
you want and they work fine with the cvs cursor tracking code.  Cursor
tracking works fine under speakup 1.5 except it doesn't automatically
speak but the cursor should track no problems.  On the other hand
nobody should be using speakup 1.5 anymore.

    Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[nick G]

Actually, VI has a little proble.  Everytime I type something it says
something to the effect of,
t 1
h2
i3
s4
space 5
i6
s7

YOu get the idea.
Thanks,
Nick
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca>
To: <norlingdeborah@fhda.edu>
Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Effortless editing with Speakup


> This is bullshit!  There are extremely powerful editors you can use and
> they work just fine.  Either vim or emacs can do just about anything
> you want and they work fine with the cvs cursor tracking code.  Cursor
> tracking works fine under speakup 1.5 except it doesn't automatically
> speak but the cursor should track no problems.  On the other hand
> nobody should be using speakup 1.5 anymore.
>
>     Kirk
>
> -- 
>
> Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Janina Sajka]

Not at all. You need to turn off the constant updating of cursor location--so, it's not a vim problem, but a configuration for the user issue.

One way to do this reliably is to start ex and then go into :vi mode.

nick G writes:
> Actually, VI has a little proble.  Everytime I type something it says
> something to the effect of,
> t 1
> h2
> i3
> s4
> space 5
> i6
> s7
> 
> YOu get the idea.
> Thanks,
> Nick
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca>
> To: <norlingdeborah@fhda.edu>
> Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Effortless editing with Speakup
> 
> 
> > This is bullshit!  There are extremely powerful editors you can use and
> > they work just fine.  Either vim or emacs can do just about anything
> > you want and they work fine with the cvs cursor tracking code.  Cursor
> > tracking works fine under speakup 1.5 except it doesn't automatically
> > speak but the cursor should track no problems.  On the other hand
> > nobody should be using speakup 1.5 anymore.
> >
> >     Kirk
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility
> > e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario
> > phone: (519) 661-3061
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Terry Klarich]

Hello all:

I suspect you have an alias for vi pointing to vim.  At the shell prompt, do an "unalias vi".  This should take care of the
problem.  Vim will then be called in vi mode.

Terry
>nick G writes:
>> Actually, VI has a little proble.  Everytime I type something it says
>> something to the effect of,
>> t 1
>> h2
>> i3
>> s4
>> space 5
>> i6
>> s7
>> 
>> YOu get the idea.
>> Thanks,
>> Nick
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca>
>> To: <norlingdeborah@fhda.edu>
>> Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: Effortless editing with Speakup
>> 
>> 
>> > This is bullshit!  There are extremely powerful editors you can use and
>> > they work just fine.  Either vim or emacs can do just about anything
>> > you want and they work fine with the cvs cursor tracking code.  Cursor
>> > tracking works fine under speakup 1.5 except it doesn't automatically
>> > speak but the cursor should track no problems.  On the other hand
>> > nobody should be using speakup 1.5 anymore.
>> >
>> >     Kirk
>> >
>> > -- 
>> >
>> > Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility
>> > e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario
>> > phone: (519) 661-3061
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Speakup mailing list
>> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>-- 
>	
>				Janina Sajka, Director
>				Technology Research and Development
>				Governmental Relations Group
>				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Thomas Stivers]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 12 2004  4:47 PM, nick G wrote:
> Actually, VI has a little proble.  Everytime I type something it says
> something to the effect of,
> t 1
> h2
> i3
> s4
> space 5
> i6
> s7
> 
> YOu get the idea.

In vim you can fix this with ":set noruler" or put "set noruler" in your
.vimrc file. There are untold hordes of such options which you can learn
about with ":help options.txt". This all assumes you're using vim and
not elvis. I neither like, nor know about, nor use elvis.

- -- 
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan

Thomas Stivers	e-mail: stivers_t@tomass.dyndns.org
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Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Roy Nickelson]

Hi,
I have the same problem in vi.  pico isn't much better when ou are 
inserting text sometimes after you type a letter speakup reads the next 
word.  And the worst example is in naim speakup says "space" before 
every character that is typed.  
Roy
On Wed, 12 May 2004, nick G wrote:

> Actually, VI has a little proble.  Everytime I type something it says
> something to the effect of,
> t 1
> h2
> i3
> s4
> space 5
> i6
> s7
> 
> YOu get the idea.
> Thanks,
> Nick
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca>
> To: <norlingdeborah@fhda.edu>
> Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Effortless editing with Speakup
> 
> 
> > This is bullshit!  There are extremely powerful editors you can use and
> > they work just fine.  Either vim or emacs can do just about anything
> > you want and they work fine with the cvs cursor tracking code.  Cursor
> > tracking works fine under speakup 1.5 except it doesn't automatically
> > speak but the cursor should track no problems.  On the other hand
> > nobody should be using speakup 1.5 anymore.
> >
> >     Kirk
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility
> > e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario
> > phone: (519) 661-3061
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Where, and what is the latest version of speakup?!

[cris]

Hi Folks,
I went to the speakup website and could not locate the latest version of
speakup.  Where can I find it?  The version I found is 1.5.  Kurk says that
no one should be using 1.5 anymore.  I prefer to get an rpm version of the
latest speakup if it is possible.
Cheers,
Cris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca>
To: <norlingdeborah@fhda.edu>
Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Effortless editing with Speakup


> This is bullshit!  There are extremely powerful editors you can use and
> they work just fine.  Either vim or emacs can do just about anything
> you want and they work fine with the cvs cursor tracking code.  Cursor
> tracking works fine under speakup 1.5 except it doesn't automatically
> speak but the cursor should track no problems.  On the other hand
> nobody should be using speakup 1.5 anymore.
>
>     Kirk
>
> -- 
>
> Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Where, and what is the latest version of speakup?!

[Kirk Reiser]

The latest version of speakup is cvs which can be had by going to the
speakup site and getting readme.checkout and checkout which is a
script to get speakup from cvs and patch your kernel with it.

Come to think of it Bill Acker may have fairly recent rpms available
as well.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: Where, and what is the latest version of speakup?!

[Roy Nickelson]

hi,
I should probably look more before asking but how do you determine what
version of speakup you are using?  does speakup --version work?
Roy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca>
To: "cris" <filastin48@hotmail.com>
Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Where, and what is the latest version of speakup?!


The latest version of speakup is cvs which can be had by going to the
speakup site and getting readme.checkout and checkout which is a
script to get speakup from cvs and patch your kernel with it.

Come to think of it Bill Acker may have fairly recent rpms available
as well.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Where, and what is the latest version of speakup?!

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

No, "speakup --version" doesn't work, since speakup isn't a program,
at least not in the way that bash for example is a program. If you
want to find out what version of speakup you have, do:

cat /proc/speakup/version

Greg


On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 02:55:10PM -0400, Roy Nickelson wrote:
> hi,
> I should probably look more before asking but how do you determine what
> version of speakup you are using?  does speakup --version work?
> Roy
> 

- -- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

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Re: Where, and what is the latest version of speakup?!

[Roy Nickelson]

hi,
it says Speakup v-2.00 CVS: Thu Nov 27 08:37:36 EST 2003

So now the only question is this the latest version?  I hope so because 
the files aren't in the corect place for me to run the checkout script.
Roy
On 
Thu, 13 May 2004, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> No, "speakup --version" doesn't work, since speakup isn't a program,
> at least not in the way that bash for example is a program. If you
> want to find out what version of speakup you have, do:
> 
> cat /proc/speakup/version
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 02:55:10PM -0400, Roy Nickelson wrote:
> > hi,
> > I should probably look more before asking but how do you determine what
> > version of speakup you are using?  does speakup --version work?
> > Roy
> > 
> 
> - -- 
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
> 
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> lKwu2Gudr1+bNb8QnP4y3iA=
> =Ew3F
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Where, and what is the latest version of speakup?!

[Steve Holmes]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

If the files are messed or located in the wrong place, I would
recommend that you save off the checkout script to your root user
directory or wherever, blow away /usr/src/linux completely, dump in a
brand new linux-2.4.26 tarball and then run checkout.  In fact, if you
type checkout while your current dirrectory is /usr/src/linux-2.4.26,
checkout will insert the speakup patches in the correct places under
this tree.  The speakup files themselves should end up in
/usr/src/linux-2.4.26/drivers/char/speakup.  Other patches apply where
they do and you should not get any patch errors with this
combination.  Besure you have a symbolic link linking
/usr/src/linux-2.4.26 to /usr/src/linux and you should be good to go.
Start with the usual config steps.  If you have a previous
configuration from prior kernel compiles then save that file to the
side before this directory reconstruction.

Hope this helps.

On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 05:27:35PM -0400, Roy Nickelson wrote:
> hi,
> it says Speakup v-2.00 CVS: Thu Nov 27 08:37:36 EST 2003
> 
> So now the only question is this the latest version?  I hope so because 
> the files aren't in the corect place for me to run the checkout script.
> Roy

- -- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
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Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Alex Snow]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

then give emacs and nano a try. emacs is way more advanced then nano 
but nano is much easier to learn.
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 10:12:40AM 
- -0700, Debee Norling wrote:
> Interesting that even you experienced users have editing troubles.
> 
> I think the next edit to lilo.conf then will be a way to let me log in with
> a terminal. My trusty old Toshiba T1200 laptop with sounding board still
> works fine with como and a variety of screen readers, and I never had
> trouble using Vi or pico that way.
> 
> I'm really hoping to be able to program using Speakup but I need an editor
> that I don't have to think about.
> 
> 
>        --   Debee
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
...you might as well skip the Xmas celebration completely, and instead
sit in front of your linux computer playing with the all-new-and-improved 
linux kernel version.
	-- Linus Torvalds
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Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Stephen Clower]

Also note that Nano is a clone of Pico. If you've got Pico, the commands will be the same for either editor.


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/12/2004 at 5:45 PM Alex Snow wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>then give emacs and nano a try. emacs is way more advanced then nano
>but nano is much easier to learn.
>On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 10:12:40AM
>- -0700, Debee Norling wrote:
>> Interesting that even you experienced users have editing troubles.
>>
>> I think the next edit to lilo.conf then will be a way to let me log in
>with
>> a terminal. My trusty old Toshiba T1200 laptop with sounding board still
>> works fine with como and a variety of screen readers, and I never had
>> trouble using Vi or pico that way.
>>
>> I'm really hoping to be able to program using Speakup but I need an
>editor
>> that I don't have to think about.
>>
>>
>>        --   Debee
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>- --
>...you might as well skip the Xmas celebration completely, and instead
>sit in front of your linux computer playing with the all-new-and-improved
>linux kernel version.
>	-- Linus Torvalds
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>yy2LIvzSYcsXtn5pQmCbKp8=
>=q+Pd
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


Stephen Clower, that guy from the south.
You can reach me by any of the following:
E-Mail: steve@steve-audio.net
MSN: steve@steve-audio.net
AIM: AudioRabbit03

You can also check out my little home on the web by visiting http://www.steve-audio.net

RE: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Debee Norling]

Stephen Clower writes:
>Also note that Nano is a clone of Pico. If you've got Pico, the commands
will be the same for either editor.

Nano is on the systemrescuecd so it is easy to play with using speakup
before making any commitments.

--Debee

RE: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Well, not exactly. Nano has a pico emulation mode, but pico
commands are a subset of nano commands. Even the pico lookalike
stuff work better in nano than they do in pico Clone is the wrong
word.

Chuck

On Wed, 12 May 2004, Debee Norling wrote:

> Stephen Clower writes:
> >Also note that Nano is a clone of Pico. If you've got Pico, the commands
> will be the same for either editor.
>
> Nano is on the systemrescuecd so it is easy to play with using speakup
> before making any commitments.
>
> --Debee
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

- -- 
The Moon is Waning Crescent (34% of Full)
My home page is now at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
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RE: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Hart Larry]

Ok, following up on my comments of Wednesday, editing with pico or nano on the
hard-drive works well.  However, while useing ssh to arrow aroundeither of my
shell accounts, the cursorig is problematic.  Please any ideas on how to fix
the interface?
In Jaws useing tteraterm it works fine
Hart

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Janina Sajka]

I use ssh all the time. I only have difficulty over ssh if there are significant lag times between the two systems involved--as when I'm using ssh into my home server while somewhere across the pond on a dialup connection.

Sorry--this is probably not helpful.

Hart Larry writes:
> Ok, following up on my comments of Wednesday, editing with pico or nano on the
> hard-drive works well.  However, while useing ssh to arrow aroundeither of my
> shell accounts, the cursorig is problematic.  Please any ideas on how to fix
> the interface?
> In Jaws useing tteraterm it works fine
> Hart
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Luke Davis]

A cloan in that it looks the same.  Far more flexable, including regular
expression searching, the abilitity to control whether lines wrap, on an
interactive basis, and more.

 On Wed, 12 May 2004, Stephen Clower wrote:

> Also note that Nano is a clone of Pico. If you've got Pico, the commands will be the same for either editor.
>
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 5/12/2004 at 5:45 PM Alex Snow wrote:
>
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >Hash: SHA1
> >
> >then give emacs and nano a try. emacs is way more advanced then nano
> >but nano is much easier to learn.
> >On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 10:12:40AM
> >- -0700, Debee Norling wrote:
> >> Interesting that even you experienced users have editing troubles.
> >>
> >> I think the next edit to lilo.conf then will be a way to let me log in
> >with
> >> a terminal. My trusty old Toshiba T1200 laptop with sounding board still
> >> works fine with como and a variety of screen readers, and I never had
> >> trouble using Vi or pico that way.
> >>
> >> I'm really hoping to be able to program using Speakup but I need an
> >editor
> >> that I don't have to think about.
> >>
> >>
> >>        --   Debee
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >- --
> >...you might as well skip the Xmas celebration completely, and instead
> >sit in front of your linux computer playing with the all-new-and-improved
> >linux kernel version.
> >	-- Linus Torvalds
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
> >
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> >yy2LIvzSYcsXtn5pQmCbKp8=
> >=q+Pd
> >-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> Stephen Clower, that guy from the south.
> You can reach me by any of the following:
> E-Mail: steve@steve-audio.net
> MSN: steve@steve-audio.net
> AIM: AudioRabbit03
>
> You can also check out my little home on the web by visiting http://www.steve-audio.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
Foreign Aid: Taxing poor people in rich countries for the benefit of
rich people in poor countries. - Bernard Rosenberg

RE: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Jared Stofflett]

Try emacspeak instead of speakup for programming like c++ I've only played
around a little but it's incredible, tells you what braces and stuff match,
and automatically anounces indentation. 

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Alex Snow
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:46 PM
To: norlingdeborah@fhda.edu; Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

then give emacs and nano a try. emacs is way more advanced then nano but
nano is much easier to learn.
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 10:12:40AM
- -0700, Debee Norling wrote:
> Interesting that even you experienced users have editing troubles.
> 
> I think the next edit to lilo.conf then will be a way to let me log in 
> with a terminal. My trusty old Toshiba T1200 laptop with sounding 
> board still works fine with como and a variety of screen readers, and 
> I never had trouble using Vi or pico that way.
> 
> I'm really hoping to be able to program using Speakup but I need an 
> editor that I don't have to think about.
> 
> 
>        --   Debee
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- --
...you might as well skip the Xmas celebration completely, and instead sit
in front of your linux computer playing with the all-new-and-improved linux
kernel version.
	-- Linus Torvalds
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_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Debee Norling]

I'm not concerned if the editor is easy to learn. I just don't want to learn
three hard to learn editors! I've been using computers even before Wordstar,
and learning new editors stopped being fun about ten years ago.


Most of my friends use emacs and there is always emacspeak to play with too,
then. So guess I'll learn that.

I telnetted in to my box and did use several editors fine with JAWS and my
braille display under windows. So I guess that means I better upgrade my
speakup. I wonder if I could just replace the slackware 9.1's speakup.i
kernel with mine and if that would work. It took all night, but I
successfully downloaded the first slackware 9.1 iso image and it boots fine
and tells me that the speakup in that kernel is 1.5.

       --   Debee
(Deborah Norling)
Alternate Media Specialist
DeAnza College
Phone: 408-864-5815
       <MailTo: norlingdeborah@fhda.edu>

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Alex Snow]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

then nano is probably a good basic editor. It looks just like pico but 
it's cursor tracking with speakup works better. if you're going to do 
some programmin ghthen emacs may be a better solution...from what I've 
seen it's almost as easy to use with speakup as nano and it's got a 
lot more features.
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 03:28:09PM -0700, Debee 
Norling wrote:
> I'm not concerned if the editor is easy to learn. I just don't want to learn
> three hard to learn editors! I've been using computers even before Wordstar,
> and learning new editors stopped being fun about ten years ago.
> 
> 
> Most of my friends use emacs and there is always emacspeak to play with too,
> then. So guess I'll learn that.
> 
> I telnetted in to my box and did use several editors fine with JAWS and my
> braille display under windows. So I guess that means I better upgrade my
> speakup. I wonder if I could just replace the slackware 9.1's speakup.i
> kernel with mine and if that would work. It took all night, but I
> successfully downloaded the first slackware 9.1 iso image and it boots fine
> and tells me that the speakup in that kernel is 1.5.
> 
>        --   Debee
> (Deborah Norling)
> Alternate Media Specialist
> DeAnza College
> Phone: 408-864-5815
>        <MailTo: norlingdeborah@fhda.edu>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
> I've hacked the Xaw3d library to give you a Win95 like interface and it
> is named Xaw95. You can replace your Xaw3d library.
Oh God, this is so disgusting!
	-- seen on c.o.l.development.apps, about the "Win95 look-alike"
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Effortless editing with Speakup

[Debee Norling]

Well I got my slackware booting on the hard drive, but I now have a new
problem. I'm having a terrible time editing files. Cursor tracking in 1.10
seems to be really flaky.

I've had a shell account on many different machines, so I know several UNIX
editors a little bit, but I know none of them well. I need to master one so
I can use it automatically, and I want to know which ones work well with
speakup.

I tried pico, emacs, Joe and Vi (Vi seems to have morphed into something
called Elvis) and with all of them I had trouble using even basic commands,
because Speakup would sometimes know where the cursor was, and sometimes
not. This is of course using numpad star to toggle cursor tracking on.

So maybe the problem is that I have to adjust a console property or
something. If that's the case, we could start a different thread. Or maybe I
just need to master the right editor.

--Debee

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Well, the fact is that editing isn't so smooth. What I do is to just
turn off the cursor tracking, since in my opinion, it does more harm
then good at times, and just hit numpad-2 for say character every time
I move. For example, right-arrow, numpad-2, right-arrow, numpad-2, and
so on. I know it may sound combersum, but I got used to it after a
while. I hear tell that cursor tracking has been improved in cvs
speakup, but I'm still using 1.5 here, so someone else will have to
comment on that.

Greg


On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 09:39:57AM -0700, Debee Norling wrote:
> Well I got my slackware booting on the hard drive, but I now have a new
> problem. I'm having a terrible time editing files. Cursor tracking in 1.10
> seems to be really flaky.
> 
> I've had a shell account on many different machines, so I know several UNIX
> editors a little bit, but I know none of them well. I need to master one so
> I can use it automatically, and I want to know which ones work well with
> speakup.
> 
> I tried pico, emacs, Joe and Vi (Vi seems to have morphed into something
> called Elvis) and with all of them I had trouble using even basic commands,
> because Speakup would sometimes know where the cursor was, and sometimes
> not. This is of course using numpad star to toggle cursor tracking on.
> 
> So maybe the problem is that I have to adjust a console property or
> something. If that's the case, we could start a different thread. Or maybe I
> just need to master the right editor.
> 
> --Debee
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> !DSPAM:40a2556e278121577894274!
> 
> 

- -- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

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Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Thomas Stivers]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 12 2004  9:39 AM, Debee Norling wrote:
> Well I got my slackware booting on the hard drive, but I now have a new
> problem. I'm having a terrible time editing files. Cursor tracking in 1.10
> seems to be really flaky.

I don't think there was ever a speakup 1.10. I know that 1.5 had some
cursor tracking issues though. You may want to upgrade to the cvs
version, but I don't know if there is a kernel with it for slackware, so
you may have to built your own.

> I've had a shell account on many different machines, so I know several UNIX
> editors a little bit, but I know none of them well. I need to master one so
> I can use it automatically, and I want to know which ones work well with
> speakup.

I like vim, which is vi improved. I wouldn't say though that it is easy
to use, at least not at first. It is certainly powerful though.

> I tried pico, emacs, Joe and Vi (Vi seems to have morphed into something
> called Elvis) and with all of them I had trouble using even basic commands,
> because Speakup would sometimes know where the cursor was, and sometimes
> not. This is of course using numpad star to toggle cursor tracking on.
> 
> So maybe the problem is that I have to adjust a console property or
> something. If that's the case, we could start a different thread. Or maybe I
> just need to master the right editor.

As just another suggestion you might try nano. It is basically pico with
more features and released under the GPL. You can find it at
www.nano-editor.org if I remember corectly.

- -- 
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan

Thomas Stivers	e-mail: stivers_t@tomass.dyndns.org
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Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Hart Larry]

Well, Debora, last evening at home running speakup with a Dectalk Pc, I went in
pico in my shell account.  I had alot of trouble as I tried arrowing
left-and-right through the text.  Some times it would read a blank space where
there was text, some times it would read the same charictor again.  I should
try pico on the hard-drive to see if its different?
Hart

Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Debee,

You have two problems: one is to find the right editor, the other
is your speakup version. I have found that an editor called
"nano" works best for me. Nano is an improved pico with regular
expression support and a number of other nice stuff. By
definition, "nano" is like "pico" only more so. That's a pun.

Nano does not come with Slackware, but ought to. It is a snap to
install it. I could send you a copy if that would save you a
hunt. I have made nano my "alternate editor" in Pine. I am not
certain when the cursor tracking breakthrough came with speakup
versions, certainly not before 1.5. You may want to upgrade your
speakup version and/or kernel, which is REALLY getting your feet
wet! <smile>

Chuck



- -- 
The Moon is Waning Crescent (37% of Full)
My home page is now at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
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Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Steve Holmes]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Like what has been echoed already on this thread and what I've said in
my private note to you, this old version of speakup is really going to
hender you!  The latest (CVS) versions of speakup solve the cursor
tracking delema once and for - at least with most editors.  Then it
just gets down to the structure of editor you like.  You mentioned
previoud unix shell experience so then you can give Emacs, Vi,
Pico/Nano, etc. a try and compare for your own comfort level.  I
personally use emacs for most all my editing needs but have come back
to vim (VI improved) for another go around.  it is quite powerful.  I
like vi 'cause it starts up much more quickly than emacs but does have
a more complex mode environment as you might recall.

Oh, you mentioned Elvis; Yeah, I believe it is the defacto standard vi
editor for Slackware at least.  Vi is symbolically linked to elvis by
slackware basic defaults.  if you go to install vim, you then can
symlink that to vi instead.  For basic use, elvis and vim are similar
but I understand vim has much more power and more features.

- -- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
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Re: Effortless editing with Speakup

[Gene Collins]

Hi Debee.  Well, as Kirk has said in earlier posts, you should upgrade
to a new kernel and the cvs version of Speakup, which is about ready to
become Speakup 2.0, the production version.  The cursor tracking does
indeed work well for editing under the cvs version of Speakup, and it
doesn't really matter which editor you use.

I use one called MicroEmacs, which is a public domain editor.  If you
really want the source, you can google for it, but I've put a tar ball
up on bumpy in the goodies directory, which contains a pre-compiled
binary.  It gives you most of the editing features of gnu/emacs, but
doesn't include the kitchen sink.  This means you don't get html mode,
no mail reader, no news reader, no calendar, etc.  Just a plain vanilla
editor that only uses 2 meg of disk space, instead of the 27 plus meg
that gnu/emacs uses.

If you decide to try it, the tar ball is called uemacs.tar.gz.  download
it, become root, and change to the slash (/) directory.  Untar
uemacs.tar.gz like so:

tar xzf /home/mydir/uemacs.tar.gz

The files will be put in /usr/local/bin/uemacs.  Make sure it is in your
path.  Then type memacs file-name to run the editor.  There is a
.emacsrc file in the /usr/local/bin/uemacs directory that you can
customize.

The menu window with the function key descriptions can be toggled on and
off with the f5 function key, and you enter the help system with f6 and
exit with f10.

I should really put the source up there as well, since it is in the
public domain.  The beauty of this editor is that I've had it on just
about every computer system I've ever worked on.  DOS, a Vax running
vms, an at&t 7300 running system v., a Macintosh, Windows 9.x, dec ultrix
systems, and now linux.  Suffice it to say, that MicroEmacs is a very
small and portable editor.

Gene