a bit of trivia I found interesting

a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Adam Myrow]

I was just looking through files on my computer and stumbled over a README
file from an old shareware DOS screen reader called TinyTalk.  The part
that I found interesting is that it listed several synthesizers that
existed around 1994 and what chipset they used.  It mentioned that the
Braille 'N Speak line as well as the Accent line both use a chip called
the SSI263.  I found this interesting because the Braille 'N Speak sounds
like crap, has terrible pronunciation, and practically no inflection.
The Accent still sounds very mechanical, but has a lot more inflection,
and its pronunciation is 10 times better than the Braille 'N Speak line.
Apparently, this chipset wasn't the only piece required to produce speech.
So, anybody know what makes such a radical difference?  I know this isn't
directly Linux related, but I figured a lot of the list members have been
using computers for a long time and might know what makes the difference
or where I may find such information.

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Gregory Nowak]

Actually, I personally think that the accent sounds like crap, and the bns sounds wonderful. Whenever I listen to the accent, I can't help the notion that it is better suited for speaking French instead of English.

I have known for a while that the bns used the si 263 chip. I had also suspected that the accent used the same speech chip as the bns because of how they both sounded on head phones, but wasn't absolutely sure.

What I think makes the difference is how the chip is controlled by the software.

Greg


On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 07:55:53PM -0600, Adam Myrow wrote:
> I was just looking through files on my computer and stumbled over a README
> file from an old shareware DOS screen reader called TinyTalk.  The part
> that I found interesting is that it listed several synthesizers that
> existed around 1994 and what chipset they used.  It mentioned that the
> Braille 'N Speak line as well as the Accent line both use a chip called
> the SSI263.  I found this interesting because the Braille 'N Speak sounds
> like crap, has terrible pronunciation, and practically no inflection.
> The Accent still sounds very mechanical, but has a lot more inflection,
> and its pronunciation is 10 times better than the Braille 'N Speak line.
> Apparently, this chipset wasn't the only piece required to produce speech.
> So, anybody know what makes such a radical difference?  I know this isn't
> directly Linux related, but I figured a lot of the list members have been
> using computers for a long time and might know what makes the difference
> or where I may find such information.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Adam Myrow]

I think you are the first person I have ever heard who actually likes the
BNS's speech.  I agree that the Accent lives up to its name in that it
actually has an accent.  However, try typing the following words into each
synthesizer and see the difference in how well they are pronounced.
Pirate
Garage
baseball
awhile
Phoenix.

I prefer words to be pronounced correctly without having to create tons of
exceptions in my dictionary.  Speaking of synthesizers with accents, did
you ever hear the original Dectalk?

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Dave Hunt]

I have heard that DEC founder (Ken Olsen) was the model for dectalk.
Truth or yet another urban legend?:)




-Dave

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Gregory Nowak]

I was thinking of the accents on words, and not the pronunciation. I guess what you and I like about speech is opposite.
Improper accents in speech bother me a lot more then incorrect pronunciation of words.

As for hearing the original dectalk, can't say that I've ever heard one.

Greg


On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 09:09:58PM -0600, Adam Myrow wrote:
> I think you are the first person I have ever heard who actually likes the
> BNS's speech.  I agree that the Accent lives up to its name in that it
> actually has an accent.  However, try typing the following words into each
> synthesizer and see the difference in how well they are pronounced.
> Pirate
> Garage
> baseball
> awhile
> Phoenix.
> 
> I prefer words to be pronounced correctly without having to create tons of
> exceptions in my dictionary.  Speaking of synthesizers with accents, did
> you ever hear the original Dectalk?
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Dave Hunt]

I'll try Adam's "magic" words in my BNS and see how they're
pronounced.  I tried them in my Linux software speech engines
(viavoice outloud, and flite), and I'd much rather hear outloud saying
them.  



--Dave


Gregory Nowak writes:
<snip>

 > 
 > On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 09:09:58PM -0600, Adam Myrow wrote:
 > > Pirate
 > > Garage
 > > baseball
 > > awhile
 > > Phoenix.

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Alex Snow]

Ac! I hate the bns's speach.  I don't even use ti anymore now that I have a
blt.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


> Actually, I personally think that the accent sounds like crap, and the bns
sounds wonderful. Whenever I listen to the accent, I can't help the notion
that it is better suited for speaking French instead of English.
>
> I have known for a while that the bns used the si 263 chip. I had also
suspected that the accent used the same speech chip as the bns because of
how they both sounded on head phones, but wasn't absolutely sure.
>
> What I think makes the difference is how the chip is controlled by the
software.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 07:55:53PM -0600, Adam Myrow wrote:
> > I was just looking through files on my computer and stumbled over a
README
> > file from an old shareware DOS screen reader called TinyTalk.  The part
> > that I found interesting is that it listed several synthesizers that
> > existed around 1994 and what chipset they used.  It mentioned that the
> > Braille 'N Speak line as well as the Accent line both use a chip called
> > the SSI263.  I found this interesting because the Braille 'N Speak
sounds
> > like crap, has terrible pronunciation, and practically no inflection.
> > The Accent still sounds very mechanical, but has a lot more inflection,
> > and its pronunciation is 10 times better than the Braille 'N Speak line.
> > Apparently, this chipset wasn't the only piece required to produce
speech.
> > So, anybody know what makes such a radical difference?  I know this
isn't
> > directly Linux related, but I figured a lot of the list members have
been
> > using computers for a long time and might know what makes the difference
> > or where I may find such information.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Glenn Ervin]

I wish  someone would create a Linux kernel for the BNS, as I do not like
its OS too much,     and there are no drivers for external devices other
than what FS sells, like their over priced disk drives.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


Actually, I personally think that the accent sounds like crap, and the bns
sounds wonderful. Whenever I listen to the accent, I can't help the notion
that it is better suited for speaking French instead of English.

I have known for a while that the bns used the si 263 chip. I had also
suspected that the accent used the same speech chip as the bns because of
how they both sounded on head phones, but wasn't absolutely sure.

What I think makes the difference is how the chip is controlled by the
software.

Greg


On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 07:55:53PM -0600, Adam Myrow wrote:
> I was just looking through files on my computer and stumbled over a README
> file from an old shareware DOS screen reader called TinyTalk.  The part
> that I found interesting is that it listed several synthesizers that
> existed around 1994 and what chipset they used.  It mentioned that the
> Braille 'N Speak line as well as the Accent line both use a chip called
> the SSI263.  I found this interesting because the Braille 'N Speak sounds
> like crap, has terrible pronunciation, and practically no inflection.
> The Accent still sounds very mechanical, but has a lot more inflection,
> and its pronunciation is 10 times better than the Braille 'N Speak line.
> Apparently, this chipset wasn't the only piece required to produce speech.
> So, anybody know what makes such a radical difference?  I know this isn't
> directly Linux related, but I figured a lot of the list members have been
> using computers for a long time and might know what makes the difference
> or where I may find such information.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Glenn Ervin]

I have heard that people with hearing loss often like the sound of the BNS,
but personally, I don't like its sound.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Myrow" <amyrow@midsouth.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


I think you are the first person I have ever heard who actually likes the
BNS's speech.  I agree that the Accent lives up to its name in that it
actually has an accent.  However, try typing the following words into each
synthesizer and see the difference in how well they are pronounced.
Pirate
Garage
baseball
awhile
Phoenix.

I prefer words to be pronounced correctly without having to create tons of
exceptions in my dictionary.  Speaking of synthesizers with accents, did
you ever hear the original Dectalk?



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Glenn Ervin]

Given the small percentage of Blind folks to the number of sighted, I'd call
this a rural legend, rather than an urban legend.  Haw!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Hunt" <dave.hunt2@verizon.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


I have heard that DEC founder (Ken Olsen) was the model for dectalk.
Truth or yet another urban legend?:)




-Dave


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Gregory Nowak]

If you have ideas on how to port linux to an 8-bit z80 processor and make it so that it would declare everything statically inside of itself (since the bns programs have no access to external memory), I'd be interested to hear about it.

Greg


On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 07:15:44PM -0600, Glenn Ervin wrote:
> I wish  someone would create a Linux kernel for the BNS, as I do not like
> its OS too much,     and there are no drivers for external devices other
> than what FS sells, like their over priced disk drives.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 8:49 PM
> Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting
> 
> 
> Actually, I personally think that the accent sounds like crap, and the bns
> sounds wonderful. Whenever I listen to the accent, I can't help the notion
> that it is better suited for speaking French instead of English.
> 
> I have known for a while that the bns used the si 263 chip. I had also
> suspected that the accent used the same speech chip as the bns because of
> how they both sounded on head phones, but wasn't absolutely sure.
> 
> What I think makes the difference is how the chip is controlled by the
> software.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 07:55:53PM -0600, Adam Myrow wrote:
> > I was just looking through files on my computer and stumbled over a README
> > file from an old shareware DOS screen reader called TinyTalk.  The part
> > that I found interesting is that it listed several synthesizers that
> > existed around 1994 and what chipset they used.  It mentioned that the
> > Braille 'N Speak line as well as the Accent line both use a chip called
> > the SSI263.  I found this interesting because the Braille 'N Speak sounds
> > like crap, has terrible pronunciation, and practically no inflection.
> > The Accent still sounds very mechanical, but has a lot more inflection,
> > and its pronunciation is 10 times better than the Braille 'N Speak line.
> > Apparently, this chipset wasn't the only piece required to produce speech.
> > So, anybody know what makes such a radical difference?  I know this isn't
> > directly Linux related, but I figured a lot of the list members have been
> > using computers for a long time and might know what makes the difference
> > or where I may find such information.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Dave Hunt]

Ok, so, it's rural:).

Hee Haw,

-Dave

Glenn Ervin writes:
 > Given the small percentage of Blind folks to the number of sighted, I'd call
 > this a rural legend, rather than an urban legend.  Haw!

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Glenn Ervin]

I think someone with a room chip burner might have to re-program the chip.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


If you have ideas on how to port linux to an 8-bit z80 processor and make it
so that it would declare everything statically inside of itself (since the
bns programs have no access to external memory), I'd be interested to hear
about it.

Greg


On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 07:15:44PM -0600, Glenn Ervin wrote:
> I wish  someone would create a Linux kernel for the BNS, as I do not like
> its OS too much,     and there are no drivers for external devices other
> than what FS sells, like their over priced disk drives.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 8:49 PM
> Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting
>
>
> Actually, I personally think that the accent sounds like crap, and the bns
> sounds wonderful. Whenever I listen to the accent, I can't help the notion
> that it is better suited for speaking French instead of English.
>
> I have known for a while that the bns used the si 263 chip. I had also
> suspected that the accent used the same speech chip as the bns because of
> how they both sounded on head phones, but wasn't absolutely sure.
>
> What I think makes the difference is how the chip is controlled by the
> software.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 07:55:53PM -0600, Adam Myrow wrote:
> > I was just looking through files on my computer and stumbled over a
README
> > file from an old shareware DOS screen reader called TinyTalk.  The part
> > that I found interesting is that it listed several synthesizers that
> > existed around 1994 and what chipset they used.  It mentioned that the
> > Braille 'N Speak line as well as the Accent line both use a chip called
> > the SSI263.  I found this interesting because the Braille 'N Speak
sounds
> > like crap, has terrible pronunciation, and practically no inflection.
> > The Accent still sounds very mechanical, but has a lot more inflection,
> > and its pronunciation is 10 times better than the Braille 'N Speak line.
> > Apparently, this chipset wasn't the only piece required to produce
speech.
> > So, anybody know what makes such a radical difference?  I know this
isn't
> > directly Linux related, but I figured a lot of the list members have
been
> > using computers for a long time and might know what makes the difference
> > or where I may find such information.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Gregory Nowak]

Once you've got the kernel ported, reprogramming that chip is going to be the easy part compared to everything else.

Greg


On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 08:27:44PM -0600, Glenn Ervin wrote:
> I think someone with a room chip burner might have to re-program the chip.
> 

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Patrick Turnage]

Hi
If we are talkingabout the BNS we could talk about the BrailleNote which
has a better chance of being ported to a Linux OS than the BNS since the
processor and modem and things like thatare supported by the kernel. 


-----
Patrick Turnage
E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
Home Page:
http://www.access-connect.com

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[shaun_oliver]

On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 09:10:24PM -0500, Dave Hunt wrote:
> Ok, so, it's rural:).
> 
> Hee Haw,
> 
> -Dave
> 
> Glenn Ervin writes:
>  > Given the small percentage of Blind folks to the number of sighted, I'd call
>  > this a rural legend, rather than an urban legend.  Haw!
> 
ok then, rather than going off and srpouting legeond, let's have some
facts to mull over.
http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/~slemmett/dippa/chap2.html
this site should give you a farely comprehensive overview of the history
and developement of speech synthesis with some sound grabs to boot.
I used it not long ago for an assignment task.
hth


> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Shaun Oliver

A plethora of individuals with expertise in
culinary
techniques
           contaminate
the potable concoction produced by steeping certain edible
           nutriments.

email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435
yahoo: blindman01_2000
MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
IRC: irc.angeleyez.net
IRC NICK: blindman

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, that's true. In fact, I think I remember there was a brief discussion about that here a while ago.

Greg


On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 10:39:14PM -0500, Patrick Turnage wrote:
> Hi
> If we are talkingabout the BNS we could talk about the BrailleNote which
> has a better chance of being ported to a Linux OS than the BNS since the
> processor and modem and things like thatare supported by the kernel. 
> 
> 
> -----
> Patrick Turnage
> E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
> AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
> Home Page:
> http://www.access-connect.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Alex Snow]

What processor does the braillenote use anyways?
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Turnage" <patrickt@tampabay.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


> Hi
> If we are talkingabout the BNS we could talk about the BrailleNote which
> has a better chance of being ported to a Linux OS than the BNS since the
> processor and modem and things like thatare supported by the kernel.
>
>
> -----
> Patrick Turnage
> E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
> AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
> Home Page:
> http://www.access-connect.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Erik Heil]

Hey Alex.  I'm not sure, but I believe it may run some flavor of an Intel
processor.  Then again it may be MIPS-based.  i.e. CruSO, etc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow@gmx.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


> What processor does the braillenote use anyways?
> Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
> sick of Winblows!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Turnage" <patrickt@tampabay.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 10:39 PM
> Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting
>
>
> > Hi
> > If we are talkingabout the BNS we could talk about the BrailleNote which
> > has a better chance of being ported to a Linux OS than the BNS since the
> > processor and modem and things like thatare supported by the kernel.
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Patrick Turnage
> > E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
> > AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
> > Home Page:
> > http://www.access-connect.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Patrick Turnage]

Hi
I think it is the strongarm processor. I had some technical specifications
somewhere but now I can't find them. The LDP has a whole howto for getting
the modem to work with Linux. In the new motherboards they moved to a
hardware modem too instead of the software modem they used in the previous
version. I don'tk now what more they have, what kind of flahs memory they
use, what type of sound chip, etc.. 
I do kknow that some people from this list wwere going to play with it but
Pulsedata never sent the test machines to whoever it was.. 
If they were going to use speakup they would have to use a different
synthesizer since the keynote in the BrailleNote is the windows CE
equivlent of keynote multimedia.
I was thinking something along the lines of emacspeak with viavoice or flite.


-----
Patrick Turnage
E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
Home Page:
http://www.access-connect.com

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Gregory Nowak]

Al from Humanware had told me during one of their hosted chat sessions that it's a nec 133 Mhz.

Greg


On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 06:30:00AM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> What processor does the braillenote use anyways?
> Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
> sick of Winblows!

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Alex Snow]

I guess taht's better than the bns which uses the cp/m processor I've herd.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


> Al from Humanware had told me during one of their hosted chat sessions
that it's a nec 133 Mhz.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 06:30:00AM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > What processor does the braillenote use anyways?
> > Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll.
I'm
> > sick of Winblows!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Gregory Nowak]

The bns uses the z80 processor. I don't know if that's a cp/m processor as you put it or not.

Greg


On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 02:26:57PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> I guess taht's better than the bns which uses the cp/m processor I've herd.
> Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
> sick of Winblows!

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[kaare]

that was the original cp/m processor. accept for bns hasn't been used
extensively since the early 80s.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


> The bns uses the z80 processor. I don't know if that's a cp/m processor as
you put it or not.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 02:26:57PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > I guess taht's better than the bns which uses the cp/m processor I've
herd.
> > Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll.
I'm
> > sick of Winblows!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Buddy Brannan]

On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 02:26:57PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> I guess taht's better than the bns which uses the cp/m processor I've herd.

The things people hear (and worse) say, astounds me. 

There is no such thing as a CP/M processor.

CP/M was an operating system, something like (though not the same as)
DOS. It ran quite a lot of Z80-based machines and was also available
for 8088/8086 processors as well, and gods know what else. It did
quite a lot with 64K. I have a friend who still owns several machines
that run CP/M (including, I believe, at least one with eight-inch
floppy drives). Whether or not the BNS runs CP/M is sort-of irrelevant
though. No reason it isn't, like DOS, a useful tool for certain tasks,
even in our modern massive computing environments. But of course, if
you need more, you'll likely also need more processor. (I don't recall
what Kirk told me the BNS runs on though.) 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3   | And if the ground yawned,
Phone: (814) 455-7333     | I'd step to the side and say,
Email: davros@ycardz.com  | "Hey ground! I'm nobody's lunch!"
                          | --Eddie From Ohio

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[dashielljt]

The z80 was the second CP/M processor; the 8080 was the first.

Jude <dashielljt(at)gmpexpress-dot-net>

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Alex Snow]

That's what I was told a while ago, taht it used the cp/m processor.  I
think the person ment the z80.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


> The bns uses the z80 processor. I don't know if that's a cp/m processor as
you put it or not.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 02:26:57PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > I guess taht's better than the bns which uses the cp/m processor I've
herd.
> > Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll.
I'm
> > sick of Winblows!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Richard Villa]

The Z80 is a CPM processor.  That was the processor in the TRS80.

Richard

If you are going to burn all of your bridges, you better be able to walk on
water.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


> The bns uses the z80 processor. I don't know if that's a cp/m processor as
you put it or not.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 02:26:57PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > I guess taht's better than the bns which uses the cp/m processor I've
herd.
> > Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll.
I'm
> > sick of Winblows!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[dashielljt]

If a Z80 processor is a CP/M processor, will someone please explain why
whenever anyone uses a CP/M operating system the operating system has to
be loaded from a floppy or hard drive?

Jude <dashielljt(at)gmpexpress-dot-net>

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

There were versions of CP/M for a number of early processors,
including the Intel 8080, the Zilog Z80, and the Motorola 68000,
plus probably some others. Each of those processors also
supported other operating systems as well, though none of them
was a popular as CP/M, which stood for "Control Program for
Microprocessors."

On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, dashielljt wrote:

> If a Z80 processor is a CP/M processor, will someone please explain why
> whenever anyone uses a CP/M operating system the operating system has to
> be loaded from a floppy or hard drive?
>
> Jude <dashielljt(at)gmpexpress-dot-net>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (99% of Full)
So visit me sometime at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Alex Snow]

And if you got the z80 card for an apple II you could run cp/m on the apple.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hallenbeck" <chuckh@mhonline.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


> There were versions of CP/M for a number of early processors,
> including the Intel 8080, the Zilog Z80, and the Motorola 68000,
> plus probably some others. Each of those processors also
> supported other operating systems as well, though none of them
> was a popular as CP/M, which stood for "Control Program for
> Microprocessors."
>
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, dashielljt wrote:
>
> > If a Z80 processor is a CP/M processor, will someone please explain why
> > whenever anyone uses a CP/M operating system the operating system has to
> > be loaded from a floppy or hard drive?
> >
> > Jude <dashielljt(at)gmpexpress-dot-net>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (99% of Full)
> So visit me sometime at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Gregory Nowak]

Hmmm, interesting.

Does anyone know for a fact if the bns os is in fact cp/m, or is it Blazie's proprietary os?

Greg


On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 02:59:20PM -0500, kaare wrote:
> that was the original cp/m processor. accept for bns hasn't been used
> extensively since the early 80s.

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Richard Villa]

I guess that you would have to ask Wayne Thomson who developed the software
for the pocket Braille, on which the BNS is based.

Richard

If you are going to burn all of your bridges, you better be able to walk on
water.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


> Hmmm, interesting.
>
> Does anyone know for a fact if the bns os is in fact cp/m, or is it
Blazie's proprietary os?
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 02:59:20PM -0500, kaare wrote:
> > that was the original cp/m processor. accept for bns hasn't been used
> > extensively since the early 80s.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Janina Sajka]

Dave Hunt writes:
> 
> I have heard that DEC founder (Ken Olsen) was the model for dectalk.
> Truth or yet another urban legend?:)
> 
The DEC Talk's inventor was Dr. Dennis Klatt. He would place radioactive
pellets in the back of his moth and X-|ray himself speaking in order to
better understand the formation of speech. From this he was able to
model a synthesizer.


Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, it cost him his life from throat
cancer.

	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[shaun_oliver]

hi janina,
that url I provided yesterday didn't go into that mucy detail but it did
state that he was the father if you will of dec-talk.

-- 
Shaun Oliver

A plethora of individuals with expertise in
culinary
techniques
           contaminate
the potable concoction produced by steeping certain edible
           nutriments.

email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435
yahoo: blindman01_2000
MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
IRC: irc.angeleyez.net
IRC NICK: blindman

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Janina Sajka]

We believe the chip in the Braille Note is the NEC VR41xx.

Several of us joined in a project to port Linux to the Braille Note this
time last year. We were unsuccessful when Pulse-Data would not supply
units for us to work with.

That's the real issue--one would need to be able to take the risk on
blowing away a few Braille Note boards, and especially the flash roms,
before one got it right. That would be costly to most of us, myself
included.

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, and the interesting part is that a few of us on the braillenote list have been asking for a port of linux with no response from pdi.

I had also asked during Humanware's chat sessions what was the reasoning for going with windows ce, and the response was because it's a "mainstream operating system".

Greg


On Sat, Dec 21, 2002 at 11:24:16AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> We believe the chip in the Braille Note is the NEC VR41xx.
> 
> Several of us joined in a project to port Linux to the Braille Note this
> time last year. We were unsuccessful when Pulse-Data would not supply
> units for us to work with.
> 
> That's the real issue--one would need to be able to take the risk on
> blowing away a few Braille Note boards, and especially the flash roms,
> before one got it right. That would be costly to most of us, myself
> included.
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Alex Snow]

Yeah I don't see why they think that's a good excuse.  It can't run regular
windows ce software anyways from what I've heard.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting


> Yes, and the interesting part is that a few of us on the braillenote list
have been asking for a port of linux with no response from pdi.
>
> I had also asked during Humanware's chat sessions what was the reasoning
for going with windows ce, and the response was because it's a "mainstream
operating system".
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 21, 2002 at 11:24:16AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > We believe the chip in the Braille Note is the NEC VR41xx.
> >
> > Several of us joined in a project to port Linux to the Braille Note this
> > time last year. We were unsuccessful when Pulse-Data would not supply
> > units for us to work with.
> >
> > That's the real issue--one would need to be able to take the risk on
> > blowing away a few Braille Note boards, and especially the flash roms,
> > before one got it right. That would be costly to most of us, myself
> > included.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, that's correct. The only windows ce applications it can run would be those which don't directly ask the user for input, or display output (I.E. command-line only driven programs). This is because the braille display and speech aren't registered as output devices directly in win ce.

Also, since they ported keysoft from DOS to win ce, they could probably just as easily have ported it to the linux kernel.

Greg


On Sat, Dec 21, 2002 at 12:53:54PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> Yeah I don't see why they think that's a good excuse.  It can't run regular
> windows ce software anyways from what I've heard.
> Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
> sick of Winblows!

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting and now Alex's situation

[Frank Carmickle]

On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
> sick of Winblows!

So what's holding you back from leaving the dark side?

--FC

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Janina Sajka]

The moral of the story, imho, don't buy their products and tell everyone
else not to.


Gregory Nowak writes:
> From: Gregory Nowak <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
> 
> Yes, that's correct. The only windows ce applications it can run would be those which don't directly ask the user for input, or display output (I.E. command-line only driven programs). This is because the braille display and speech aren't registered as output devices directly in win ce.
> 
> Also, since they ported keysoft from DOS to win ce, they could probably just as easily have ported it to the linux kernel.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 21, 2002 at 12:53:54PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > Yeah I don't see why they think that's a good excuse.  It can't run regular
> > windows ce software anyways from what I've heard.
> > Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
> > sick of Winblows!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting and now Alex's situation

[Alex Snow]

Awaiting some parts for my linux machine.  I had it running for a little
while then some of the ram went.  It uses 72 pin simms which I don't have
any over 4 mb here.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Carmickle" <frankiec@braille.uwo.ca>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting and now Alex's situation


> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
>
> > Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll.
I'm
> > sick of Winblows!
>
> So what's holding you back from leaving the dark side?
>
> --FC
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[ccrawford]

I did not know that.  How wierd.  

- charlie Crawford.


On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Dave Hunt writes:
> > 
> > I have heard that DEC founder (Ken Olsen) was the model for dectalk.
> > Truth or yet another urban legend?:)
> > 
> The DEC Talk's inventor was Dr. Dennis Klatt. He would place radioactive
> pellets in the back of his moth and X-|ray himself speaking in order to
> better understand the formation of speech. From this he was able to
> model a synthesizer.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, it cost him his life from throat
> cancer.
> 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: a bit of trivia I found interesting

[Janina Sajka]

Well, and I think he was fully aware of the price he was paying. I would
be surprised if he wasn't.

Very strange, but not unprecedented. Some people have such profound
dedication to the cause they hold dear that they really will put their
lives on the line. Of course, soldiers do that, as do police and fire
fighters. Here we have it in science.

I believe Madam Currie is another example. I'm not sure that it was a
consequence she was aware of, however, as radium was the thing she
discovered.


Charles Crawford writes:
> From: ccrawford@acb.org
> 
> I did not know that.  How wierd.  
> 
> - charlie Crawford.
> 
> 
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > Dave Hunt writes:
> > > 
> > > I have heard that DEC founder (Ken Olsen) was the model for dectalk.
> > > Truth or yet another urban legend?:)
> > > 
> > The DEC Talk's inventor was Dr. Dennis Klatt. He would place radioactive
> > pellets in the back of his moth and X-|ray himself speaking in order to
> > better understand the formation of speech. From this he was able to
> > model a synthesizer.
> > 
> > 
> > Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, it cost him his life from throat
> > cancer.
> > 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175