suggestions for Speakup

suggestions for Speakup

[Adam Myrow]

Here are two things I would like to see some future version of Speakup be
able to do.  First, I'd like to see a way of turning off the keypad.  For
example, when numlock is on, the keypad would act normally and type
numbers.  The second is some sort of frames or windows support.  What I
mean is the feature where you can designate a part of the screen, say,
lines 2 and 3, and instruct the screen reader to ignore these lines, but
let you have them spoken on demand with a hot key.  Both DOS and Windows
screen readers can do this, but I have no idea how it would be done in
Speakup's current state since it can't save settings directly.  What do
you all think of these ideas?  Are they doable?

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

Maybe, if someone is going to sit down and code them.
Greg

On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 06:55:36PM -0600, Adam Myrow wrote:
> Here are two things I would like to see some future version of Speakup be
> able to do.  First, I'd like to see a way of turning off the keypad.  For
> example, when numlock is on, the keypad would act normally and type
> numbers.  The second is some sort of frames or windows support.  What I
> mean is the feature where you can designate a part of the screen, say,
> lines 2 and 3, and instruct the screen reader to ignore these lines, but
> let you have them spoken on demand with a hot key.  Both DOS and Windows
> screen readers can do this, but I have no idea how it would be done in
> Speakup's current state since it can't save settings directly.  What do
> you all think of these ideas?  Are they doable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Saving Settings--Was Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Dave Hunt]

If more items (namely those needed to describe frames) were added to the 
"/proc/speakup" tree, you could define some frames, and save the new 
"/proc/speakup" values somewhere.  Perhaps, there could even be a little 
utility that takes these values and turns them into a file, say 
"/etc/speakup.conf", that yould load during bootup, or in 
"/etc/profile", or whatever.


-Dave


On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> 
> Maybe, if someone is going to sit down and code them.
> Greg
> 
> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 06:55:36PM -0600, Adam Myrow wrote:
> > Here are two things I would like to see some future version of Speakup be
> > able to do.  First, I'd like to see a way of turning off the keypad.  For
> > example, when numlock is on, the keypad would act normally and type
> > numbers.  The second is some sort of frames or windows support.  What I
> > mean is the feature where you can designate a part of the screen, say,
> > lines 2 and 3, and instruct the screen reader to ignore these lines, but
> > let you have them spoken on demand with a hot key.  Both DOS and Windows
> > screen readers can do this, but I have no idea how it would be done in
> > Speakup's current state since it can't save settings directly.  What do
> > you all think of these ideas?  Are they doable?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

More Speakup Suggestions--was Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Dave Hunt]

A "search" feature might be handy.  I notice that the Jupiter speech 
system for Linux has this.  Also, What about making Speakup available as 
a module, in addition to right into the kernel?


-Dave

On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Adam 
Myrow wrote:

> Here are two things I would like to see some future version of Speakup be
> able to do.  First, I'd like to see a way of turning off the keypad.  For
> example, when numlock is on, the keypad would act normally and type
> numbers.  The second is some sort of frames or windows support.  What I
> mean is the feature where you can designate a part of the screen, say,
> lines 2 and 3, and instruct the screen reader to ignore these lines, but
> let you have them spoken on demand with a hot key.  Both DOS and Windows
> screen readers can do this, but I have no idea how it would be done in
> Speakup's current state since it can't save settings directly.  What do
> you all think of these ideas?  Are they doable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: More Speakup Suggestions--was Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Geoff Shang]

On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Dave Hunt wrote:

> A "search" feature might be handy.  I notice that the Jupiter speech
> system for Linux has this.

OK, I'll bight.  What's this?

> Also, What about making Speakup available as
> a module, in addition to right into the kernel?

Well, work will be done to modularise speakup's synth drivers.
Modularising the speakup core itself should be possible, though there may
be technical reasons not to do this.  I can see why this would be a nice
feature though.

Geoff.

What is the search feature???

[Dave Hunt]

Press a hot key, type a sttring, speakup parks the reading cursor on the 
first occurance...

On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Geoff Shang wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Dave Hunt wrote:
> 
> > A "search" feature might be handy.  I notice that the Jupiter speech
> > system for Linux has this.
> 
> OK, I'll bight.  What's this?

Re: What is the search feature???

[Geoff Shang]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Dave Hunt wrote:

> Press a hot key, type a sttring, speakup parks the reading cursor on the
> first occurance...

urrr, ok, that's not what I meant.  I meant, what is the jupiter speech
system for linux?

Geoff.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Thomas Ward]

They are good ideas. Even perhaps even necessary ones.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: Adam Myrow <myrow@eskimo.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 7:55 PM
Subject: suggestions for Speakup


> Here are two things I would like to see some future version of Speakup be
> able to do.  First, I'd like to see a way of turning off the keypad.  For
> example, when numlock is on, the keypad would act normally and type
> numbers.  The second is some sort of frames or windows support.  What I
> mean is the feature where you can designate a part of the screen, say,
> lines 2 and 3, and instruct the screen reader to ignore these lines, but
> let you have them spoken on demand with a hot key.  Both DOS and Windows
> screen readers can do this, but I have no idea how it would be done in
> Speakup's current state since it can't save settings directly.  What do
> you all think of these ideas?  Are they doable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Kirk Reiser]

Adam Myrow <myrow@eskimo.com> writes:

> Here are two things I would like to see some future version of Speakup be
> able to do.  First, I'd like to see a way of turning off the keypad.  For
> example, when numlock is on, the keypad would act normally and type
> numbers.  The second is some sort of frames or windows support.  What I
> mean is the feature where you can designate a part of the screen, say,
> lines 2 and 3, and instruct the screen reader to ignore these lines, but
> let you have them spoken on demand with a hot key.  Both DOS and Windows
> screen readers can do this, but I have no idea how it would be done in
> Speakup's current state since it can't save settings directly.  What do
> you all think of these ideas?  Are they doable?

They are both good ideas and are both already in the todo file in the
speakup distribution.

As of last night, the 2.4.x speakup branch has the numlock on/off
support built-in.  The 2.2.x branch is currently broken and I am
working on fixing that.

The frame/windows suggestion is one which will take a lot of work to
implement and although it is in the todo list it is certainly not high
on my priority list.

Some one else requested a search feature; I also think this is a good
idea and will put it in the todo list.  I don't know when I'll get
around to looking at that one.

On another note, mentioning that something should be there because it
is part of windows/dos screen review packages is a non-starter with
me.  That means we should do something because it is available in that
other o.s.  I base what needs to be done on what features seem
reasonable to provide better access to linux.  I am not at all
interested in keeping up with those other packages.  So if you folks
want to make a comparison based on features, you might as well just
piss off.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Charles Hallenbeck]

On 11 Jan 2002, Kirk Reiser wrote:

> On another note, mentioning that something should be there because it
> is part of windows/dos screen review packages is a non-starter with
> me.  That means we should do something because it is available in that
> other o.s.  I base what needs to be done on what features seem
> reasonable to provide better access to linux.  I am not at all
> interested in keeping up with those other packages.  So if you folks
> want to make a comparison based on features, you might as well just
> piss off.

Kirk,

I support your position completely! Speakup is at the point where
it is vulnerable to the bells and whistles syndrome, where folks
want to throw in the kitchen sink. Stick to the straight and
narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.

Chuck


*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*
Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
The Moon is Waning Crescent (4% of Full)

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Shaun Oliver]

just to ad to this thread,
could some of what's ben suggested not be handled by the user writing a
shell script or as chuck suggested just not worrying about it?
I find speakup works fine as it is.
the numlock feature is certainly a good idea. as for the frames/windows, 
right at the moment I don't know why I'd want some parts of the screen
not spoken.
that's just my thoughts anyhow.
On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck
wrote:

> On 11 Jan 2002, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> 
> > On another note, mentioning that something should be there because it
> > is part of windows/dos screen review packages is a non-starter with
> > me.  That means we should do something because it is available in that
> > other o.s.  I base what needs to be done on what features seem
> > reasonable to provide better access to linux.  I am not at all
> > interested in keeping up with those other packages.  So if you folks
> > want to make a comparison based on features, you might as well just
> > piss off.
> 
> Kirk,
> 
> I support your position completely! Speakup is at the point where
> it is vulnerable to the bells and whistles syndrome, where folks
> want to throw in the kitchen sink. Stick to the straight and
> narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> *<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*
> Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
> The Moon is Waning Crescent (4% of Full)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Shaun Oliver

Marriage is a three ring circus:
engagement ring, wedding ring, and suffering.
                -- Roger Price

Email: shauno@goanna.net.au
Icq: 76958435

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Amanda Lee]

Some status lines are pretty obnoxious with blinking clocks and junk like
that.  Haven't seen much of this in linux/unix but at times you just don't
want to hear everythint that is displayed on the screen each time you get
a screenful.

Amanda Lee


On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Shaun Oliver wrote:

> just to ad to this thread,
> could some of what's ben suggested not be handled by the user writing a
> shell script or as chuck suggested just not worrying about it?
> I find speakup works fine as it is.
> the numlock feature is certainly a good idea. as for the frames/windows,
> right at the moment I don't know why I'd want some parts of the screen
> not spoken.
> that's just my thoughts anyhow.
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck
> wrote:
>
> > On 11 Jan 2002, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> >
> > > On another note, mentioning that something should be there because it
> > > is part of windows/dos screen review packages is a non-starter with
> > > me.  That means we should do something because it is available in that
> > > other o.s.  I base what needs to be done on what features seem
> > > reasonable to provide better access to linux.  I am not at all
> > > interested in keeping up with those other packages.  So if you folks
> > > want to make a comparison based on features, you might as well just
> > > piss off.
> >
> > Kirk,
> >
> > I support your position completely! Speakup is at the point where
> > it is vulnerable to the bells and whistles syndrome, where folks
> > want to throw in the kitchen sink. Stick to the straight and
> > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> > *<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*
> > Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
> > The Moon is Waning Crescent (4% of Full)
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
> Shaun Oliver
>
> Marriage is a three ring circus:
> engagement ring, wedding ring, and suffering.
>                 -- Roger Price
>
> Email: shauno@goanna.net.au
> Icq: 76958435
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Amanda Lee said the following on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 04:24:30PM -0500:
> Some status lines are pretty obnoxious with blinking clocks and junk like
> that.  Haven't seen much of this in linux/unix but at times you just don't
> want to hear everythint that is displayed on the screen each time you get
> a screenful.
> 
> Amanda Lee

I agree here.  Most programs do have a flag or setting to turn off
clocks, etc but some don't and not everyone who uses them will know to
just hack the source code to avoid the clocks, etc.  Having this feature
would make it a little easier for the newbie.  I personally prefer the
hack coding to avoid blinking status bars, etc but that is my personal
approach.

Best regards.
--
We are writing this e-mail to inform you that the mail server is down.
Please do not call the help desk for assistance.  To see the progress of
any outage refer to your e-mail notifications.
Raul A. Gallegos - http://www.asmodean.net

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Kirk Wood]

First, I want to say that I agree with the other Kirk on the need for
features. The truth is that many features added to software are there to
justify an upgrade. That is the only reason many features are there. It
seems fixing your bugs isn't a good enough reason to get people to pay for
upgrades.

As for the blinking clocks or whatever, the best thing is to vote against
the programs by not using them. Having said that, it seems that most of
that crap is in the DOS/winblows world. Perhaps again because such things
are designed to sell ignoramous people on buying another upgrade.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Janina Sajka]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> Stick to the straight and
> narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> 
Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.

The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib and IBM 
are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice users 
can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the process. And, 
they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and that 
they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.

Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??

speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

IBM is authoring a howto about speakup? Where can I find a copy to look at?
And uhhhm, why are they doing it?
Greg


On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:28:21AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> 
> > Stick to the straight and
> > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> > 
> Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> 
> The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib and IBM 
> are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice users 
> can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the process. And, 
> they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and that 
> they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> 
> Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Janina Sajka]

Excellent questions, Gregory. IBM's Accessibility on Linux page, which is 
at:

	
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/projects/access/

says "The IBM Linux Accessibility Team contributes to the open-source 
community's accessibility efforts in order to help
   accelerate Linux."

This is, of course, an incomplete statement which makes no sense on its 
own. What do they mean "accelerate linux?" I suspect they don't mean "make 
it run faster," for example. I'm sure there's a word missing in that 
sentence, but I diagress ...

This page goes on to say:

"November 15, 2001
   Saqib Shaikh, author of several Speakup documents, agreed to coauthor 
new Speakup HOWTO with Jennifer Jobst."

Since I see no link, I assume they're not offering up any drafts just yet,
but I certainly expect they'll do so before finalizing their document. I
know Jennifer posted a draft of her emacspeak documentation on the
emacspeak list, so I suspect she's lurking here, and will do the same for
us. And, of course, Saqib is active on this list, so perhaps he'd like to
share about this? I do recall he offered us his own, quite excellent
speakup HOWTO last spring. Are there other speakup docs you've written,
Saqib? That one is the only one I'm aware of to date.

Now, let me speculate on the real reason IBM is up to all those wonderful 
efforts they proudly list at the url provided above:

I believe IBM wants to make money selling computers to the U.S. 
Government. I believe they want the option to sell systems without 
Microsoft applications, and Microsoft operating systems. Recent news 
stories have explained about contracts from IBM to Redhat for ports of the 
Redhat distribution of open source linux for a range of IBM servers, and 
even IBM's S390 mainframe.

To me, these facts point to the intention to be Sec.508 compliant in 
systems proposals for U.S. Federal procurments. And, I say, "Amen, and 
more power to them."



On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> IBM is authoring a howto about speakup? Where can I find a copy to look at?
> And uhhhm, why are they doing it?
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:28:21AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > 
> > > Stick to the straight and
> > > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> > > 
> > Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> > 
> > The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib and IBM 
> > are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice users 
> > can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the process. And, 
> > they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and that 
> > they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> > 
> > Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

So will this new joint howto be a rewriting and incorperation of Saqib's original howto, or a totally new document?
Greg


On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:36:53PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Excellent questions, Gregory. IBM's Accessibility on Linux page, which is 
> at:
> 
> 	
> http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/projects/access/
> 
> says "The IBM Linux Accessibility Team contributes to the open-source 
> community's accessibility efforts in order to help
>    accelerate Linux."
> 
> This is, of course, an incomplete statement which makes no sense on its 
> own. What do they mean "accelerate linux?" I suspect they don't mean "make 
> it run faster," for example. I'm sure there's a word missing in that 
> sentence, but I diagress ...
> 
> This page goes on to say:
> 
> "November 15, 2001
>    Saqib Shaikh, author of several Speakup documents, agreed to coauthor 
> new Speakup HOWTO with Jennifer Jobst."
> 
> Since I see no link, I assume they're not offering up any drafts just yet,
> but I certainly expect they'll do so before finalizing their document. I
> know Jennifer posted a draft of her emacspeak documentation on the
> emacspeak list, so I suspect she's lurking here, and will do the same for
> us. And, of course, Saqib is active on this list, so perhaps he'd like to
> share about this? I do recall he offered us his own, quite excellent
> speakup HOWTO last spring. Are there other speakup docs you've written,
> Saqib? That one is the only one I'm aware of to date.
> 
> Now, let me speculate on the real reason IBM is up to all those wonderful 
> efforts they proudly list at the url provided above:
> 
> I believe IBM wants to make money selling computers to the U.S. 
> Government. I believe they want the option to sell systems without 
> Microsoft applications, and Microsoft operating systems. Recent news 
> stories have explained about contracts from IBM to Redhat for ports of the 
> Redhat distribution of open source linux for a range of IBM servers, and 
> even IBM's S390 mainframe.
> 
> To me, these facts point to the intention to be Sec.508 compliant in 
> systems proposals for U.S. Federal procurments. And, I say, "Amen, and 
> more power to them."
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > IBM is authoring a howto about speakup? Where can I find a copy to look at?
> > And uhhhm, why are they doing it?
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:28:21AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Stick to the straight and
> > > > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > > > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > > > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> > > > 
> > > Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> > > 
> > > The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib and IBM 
> > > are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice users 
> > > can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the process. And, 
> > > they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and that 
> > > they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> > > 
> > > Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Janina Sajka]

Gregory:

I don't know. Theyh haven't consulted me on their plans. Why don't we just 
ask them to tell us all here on the list?

On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> So will this new joint howto be a rewriting and incorperation of Saqib's original howto, or a totally new document?
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:36:53PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Excellent questions, Gregory. IBM's Accessibility on Linux page, which is 
> > at:
> > 
> > 	
> > http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/projects/access/
> > 
> > says "The IBM Linux Accessibility Team contributes to the open-source 
> > community's accessibility efforts in order to help
> >    accelerate Linux."
> > 
> > This is, of course, an incomplete statement which makes no sense on its 
> > own. What do they mean "accelerate linux?" I suspect they don't mean "make 
> > it run faster," for example. I'm sure there's a word missing in that 
> > sentence, but I diagress ...
> > 
> > This page goes on to say:
> > 
> > "November 15, 2001
> >    Saqib Shaikh, author of several Speakup documents, agreed to coauthor 
> > new Speakup HOWTO with Jennifer Jobst."
> > 
> > Since I see no link, I assume they're not offering up any drafts just yet,
> > but I certainly expect they'll do so before finalizing their document. I
> > know Jennifer posted a draft of her emacspeak documentation on the
> > emacspeak list, so I suspect she's lurking here, and will do the same for
> > us. And, of course, Saqib is active on this list, so perhaps he'd like to
> > share about this? I do recall he offered us his own, quite excellent
> > speakup HOWTO last spring. Are there other speakup docs you've written,
> > Saqib? That one is the only one I'm aware of to date.
> > 
> > Now, let me speculate on the real reason IBM is up to all those wonderful 
> > efforts they proudly list at the url provided above:
> > 
> > I believe IBM wants to make money selling computers to the U.S. 
> > Government. I believe they want the option to sell systems without 
> > Microsoft applications, and Microsoft operating systems. Recent news 
> > stories have explained about contracts from IBM to Redhat for ports of the 
> > Redhat distribution of open source linux for a range of IBM servers, and 
> > even IBM's S390 mainframe.
> > 
> > To me, these facts point to the intention to be Sec.508 compliant in 
> > systems proposals for U.S. Federal procurments. And, I say, "Amen, and 
> > more power to them."
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > 
> > > IBM is authoring a howto about speakup? Where can I find a copy to look at?
> > > And uhhhm, why are they doing it?
> > > Greg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:28:21AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Stick to the straight and
> > > > > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > > > > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > > > > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> > > > > 
> > > > Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> > > > 
> > > > The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib and IBM 
> > > > are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice users 
> > > > can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the process. And, 
> > > > they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and that 
> > > > they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> > > > 
> > > > Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

That's a good idea. How about it then you two?
Greg


On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 02:47:56PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Gregory:
> 
> I don't know. Theyh haven't consulted me on their plans. Why don't we just 
> ask them to tell us all here on the list?
> 
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > So will this new joint howto be a rewriting and incorperation of Saqib's original howto, or a totally new document?
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:36:53PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > Excellent questions, Gregory. IBM's Accessibility on Linux page, which is 
> > > at:
> > > 
> > > 	
> > > http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/projects/access/
> > > 
> > > says "The IBM Linux Accessibility Team contributes to the open-source 
> > > community's accessibility efforts in order to help
> > >    accelerate Linux."
> > > 
> > > This is, of course, an incomplete statement which makes no sense on its 
> > > own. What do they mean "accelerate linux?" I suspect they don't mean "make 
> > > it run faster," for example. I'm sure there's a word missing in that 
> > > sentence, but I diagress ...
> > > 
> > > This page goes on to say:
> > > 
> > > "November 15, 2001
> > >    Saqib Shaikh, author of several Speakup documents, agreed to coauthor 
> > > new Speakup HOWTO with Jennifer Jobst."
> > > 
> > > Since I see no link, I assume they're not offering up any drafts just yet,
> > > but I certainly expect they'll do so before finalizing their document. I
> > > know Jennifer posted a draft of her emacspeak documentation on the
> > > emacspeak list, so I suspect she's lurking here, and will do the same for
> > > us. And, of course, Saqib is active on this list, so perhaps he'd like to
> > > share about this? I do recall he offered us his own, quite excellent
> > > speakup HOWTO last spring. Are there other speakup docs you've written,
> > > Saqib? That one is the only one I'm aware of to date.
> > > 
> > > Now, let me speculate on the real reason IBM is up to all those wonderful 
> > > efforts they proudly list at the url provided above:
> > > 
> > > I believe IBM wants to make money selling computers to the U.S. 
> > > Government. I believe they want the option to sell systems without 
> > > Microsoft applications, and Microsoft operating systems. Recent news 
> > > stories have explained about contracts from IBM to Redhat for ports of the 
> > > Redhat distribution of open source linux for a range of IBM servers, and 
> > > even IBM's S390 mainframe.
> > > 
> > > To me, these facts point to the intention to be Sec.508 compliant in 
> > > systems proposals for U.S. Federal procurments. And, I say, "Amen, and 
> > > more power to them."
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > 
> > > > IBM is authoring a howto about speakup? Where can I find a copy to look at?
> > > > And uhhhm, why are they doing it?
> > > > Greg
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:28:21AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Stick to the straight and
> > > > > > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > > > > > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > > > > > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib and IBM 
> > > > > are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice users 
> > > > > can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the process. And, 
> > > > > they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and that 
> > > > > they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > 	
> > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > 
> > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > 
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Saqib Shaikh]

I'm not allowed to make everything public but I guess we'll only get a bad
name if we stay quiet.  It is *totally separate* from my previous docs - IBM
were doing it and why reinvent the heel so they just turned the wheel into a
motor-driven wheel with a tyre.

Saqib
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup


> Gregory:
>
> I don't know. Theyh haven't consulted me on their plans. Why don't we just
> ask them to tell us all here on the list?
>
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
> > So will this new joint howto be a rewriting and incorperation of Saqib's
original howto, or a totally new document?
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:36:53PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > Excellent questions, Gregory. IBM's Accessibility on Linux page, which
is
> > > at:
> > >
> > >
> > >
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/projects/access/
> > >
> > > says "The IBM Linux Accessibility Team contributes to the open-source
> > > community's accessibility efforts in order to help
> > >    accelerate Linux."
> > >
> > > This is, of course, an incomplete statement which makes no sense on
its
> > > own. What do they mean "accelerate linux?" I suspect they don't mean
"make
> > > it run faster," for example. I'm sure there's a word missing in that
> > > sentence, but I diagress ...
> > >
> > > This page goes on to say:
> > >
> > > "November 15, 2001
> > >    Saqib Shaikh, author of several Speakup documents, agreed to
coauthor
> > > new Speakup HOWTO with Jennifer Jobst."
> > >
> > > Since I see no link, I assume they're not offering up any drafts just
yet,
> > > but I certainly expect they'll do so before finalizing their document.
I
> > > know Jennifer posted a draft of her emacspeak documentation on the
> > > emacspeak list, so I suspect she's lurking here, and will do the same
for
> > > us. And, of course, Saqib is active on this list, so perhaps he'd like
to
> > > share about this? I do recall he offered us his own, quite excellent
> > > speakup HOWTO last spring. Are there other speakup docs you've
written,
> > > Saqib? That one is the only one I'm aware of to date.
> > >
> > > Now, let me speculate on the real reason IBM is up to all those
wonderful
> > > efforts they proudly list at the url provided above:
> > >
> > > I believe IBM wants to make money selling computers to the U.S.
> > > Government. I believe they want the option to sell systems without
> > > Microsoft applications, and Microsoft operating systems. Recent news
> > > stories have explained about contracts from IBM to Redhat for ports of
the
> > > Redhat distribution of open source linux for a range of IBM servers,
and
> > > even IBM's S390 mainframe.
> > >
> > > To me, these facts point to the intention to be Sec.508 compliant in
> > > systems proposals for U.S. Federal procurments. And, I say, "Amen, and
> > > more power to them."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > >
> > > > IBM is authoring a howto about speakup? Where can I find a copy to
look at?
> > > > And uhhhm, why are they doing it?
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:28:21AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Stick to the straight and
> > > > > > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > > > > > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > > > > > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> > > > >
> > > > > The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib
and IBM
> > > > > are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice
users
> > > > > can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the
process. And,
> > > > > they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and
that
> > > > > they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> > > > >
> > > > > Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Janina Sajka]

Saqib:

I just want to make my position very clear. Nothing I say about this 
topic, today, yesterday, or tomorrow, is in any way about you--unless I 
first tell you otherwise, I suppose! <grin> I am certainly aware who the 
boss is in your relationship with IBM.

I do want to say, also, that I think they've done the right thing
involving you, and I'm also glad to hear you're getting paid.  They've
done a great job, imho, with the emacspeak HOWTO documentation, aand I
expect no less with the speakup documentation you and they will create.
So, don't say anything you're not supposed to. That certainly isn't
necessary here. I expect they'll understand the importance of treating
this list the same way they treated the emacspeak list. That is all of
what I meant about World War III.

As for me, I've initiated another contact channel with IBM. I do think,
though that it would be very appropriate for you to pass along the
expectations of folks on this list to them.



 On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Saqib 
Shaikh wrote:

> I'm not allowed to make everything public but I guess we'll only get a bad
> name if we stay quiet.  It is *totally separate* from my previous docs - IBM
> were doing it and why reinvent the heel so they just turned the wheel into a
> motor-driven wheel with a tyre.
> 
> Saqib
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:47 PM
> Subject: Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup
> 
> 
> > Gregory:
> >
> > I don't know. Theyh haven't consulted me on their plans. Why don't we just
> > ask them to tell us all here on the list?
> >
> > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > So will this new joint howto be a rewriting and incorperation of Saqib's
> original howto, or a totally new document?
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:36:53PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > Excellent questions, Gregory. IBM's Accessibility on Linux page, which
> is
> > > > at:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/projects/access/
> > > >
> > > > says "The IBM Linux Accessibility Team contributes to the open-source
> > > > community's accessibility efforts in order to help
> > > >    accelerate Linux."
> > > >
> > > > This is, of course, an incomplete statement which makes no sense on
> its
> > > > own. What do they mean "accelerate linux?" I suspect they don't mean
> "make
> > > > it run faster," for example. I'm sure there's a word missing in that
> > > > sentence, but I diagress ...
> > > >
> > > > This page goes on to say:
> > > >
> > > > "November 15, 2001
> > > >    Saqib Shaikh, author of several Speakup documents, agreed to
> coauthor
> > > > new Speakup HOWTO with Jennifer Jobst."
> > > >
> > > > Since I see no link, I assume they're not offering up any drafts just
> yet,
> > > > but I certainly expect they'll do so before finalizing their document.
> I
> > > > know Jennifer posted a draft of her emacspeak documentation on the
> > > > emacspeak list, so I suspect she's lurking here, and will do the same
> for
> > > > us. And, of course, Saqib is active on this list, so perhaps he'd like
> to
> > > > share about this? I do recall he offered us his own, quite excellent
> > > > speakup HOWTO last spring. Are there other speakup docs you've
> written,
> > > > Saqib? That one is the only one I'm aware of to date.
> > > >
> > > > Now, let me speculate on the real reason IBM is up to all those
> wonderful
> > > > efforts they proudly list at the url provided above:
> > > >
> > > > I believe IBM wants to make money selling computers to the U.S.
> > > > Government. I believe they want the option to sell systems without
> > > > Microsoft applications, and Microsoft operating systems. Recent news
> > > > stories have explained about contracts from IBM to Redhat for ports of
> the
> > > > Redhat distribution of open source linux for a range of IBM servers,
> and
> > > > even IBM's S390 mainframe.
> > > >
> > > > To me, these facts point to the intention to be Sec.508 compliant in
> > > > systems proposals for U.S. Federal procurments. And, I say, "Amen, and
> > > > more power to them."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > IBM is authoring a howto about speakup? Where can I find a copy to
> look at?
> > > > > And uhhhm, why are they doing it?
> > > > > Greg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:28:21AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Stick to the straight and
> > > > > > > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > > > > > > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > > > > > > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib
> and IBM
> > > > > > are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice
> users
> > > > > > can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the
> process. And,
> > > > > > they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and
> that
> > > > > > they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Saqib Shaikh]

Janina and everyone else

I am *not* getting paid.  I would be interested to know how this little
conclusion was reached, and fear that rumours may be spreading across the
email list so I'd like to make it clear that I was contacted by Jennifer
saying "I'm writing a doc on Speakup, you've done a few docs already, would
you like to coauthor this one?".  I replied yes.  During last term and my
Christmas holidays I helped in my free time, between university assignments.
So it's nothing glamourous.  All the work that I've done be it writing docs
programs or helping others is purely because I wish to help.  In general I
am helping someone with a computer five times a day and installing Linux at
least once a week, even if they live in Australia.

I'm sure that it was a slip of the fingers, but I would like to clear up the
mistake.

Before I go, like everyone money is always in high demand and donations to
the Saqib Shaikh Piggy Bank fund are always thankfully accepted <grin>.

Regards, Saqib


----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup


> Saqib:
>
> I just want to make my position very clear. Nothing I say about this
> topic, today, yesterday, or tomorrow, is in any way about you--unless I
> first tell you otherwise, I suppose! <grin> I am certainly aware who the
> boss is in your relationship with IBM.
>
> I do want to say, also, that I think they've done the right thing
> involving you, and I'm also glad to hear you're getting paid.  They've
> done a great job, imho, with the emacspeak HOWTO documentation, aand I
> expect no less with the speakup documentation you and they will create.
> So, don't say anything you're not supposed to. That certainly isn't
> necessary here. I expect they'll understand the importance of treating
> this list the same way they treated the emacspeak list. That is all of
> what I meant about World War III.
>
> As for me, I've initiated another contact channel with IBM. I do think,
> though that it would be very appropriate for you to pass along the
> expectations of folks on this list to them.
>
>
>
>  On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Saqib
> Shaikh wrote:
>
> > I'm not allowed to make everything public but I guess we'll only get a
bad
> > name if we stay quiet.  It is *totally separate* from my previous docs -
IBM
> > were doing it and why reinvent the heel so they just turned the wheel
into a
> > motor-driven wheel with a tyre.
> >
> > Saqib
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup
> >
> >
> > > Gregory:
> > >
> > > I don't know. Theyh haven't consulted me on their plans. Why don't we
just
> > > ask them to tell us all here on the list?
> > >
> > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > >
> > > > So will this new joint howto be a rewriting and incorperation of
Saqib's
> > original howto, or a totally new document?
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:36:53PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > Excellent questions, Gregory. IBM's Accessibility on Linux page,
which
> > is
> > > > > at:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/projects/access/
> > > > >
> > > > > says "The IBM Linux Accessibility Team contributes to the
open-source
> > > > > community's accessibility efforts in order to help
> > > > >    accelerate Linux."
> > > > >
> > > > > This is, of course, an incomplete statement which makes no sense
on
> > its
> > > > > own. What do they mean "accelerate linux?" I suspect they don't
mean
> > "make
> > > > > it run faster," for example. I'm sure there's a word missing in
that
> > > > > sentence, but I diagress ...
> > > > >
> > > > > This page goes on to say:
> > > > >
> > > > > "November 15, 2001
> > > > >    Saqib Shaikh, author of several Speakup documents, agreed to
> > coauthor
> > > > > new Speakup HOWTO with Jennifer Jobst."
> > > > >
> > > > > Since I see no link, I assume they're not offering up any drafts
just
> > yet,
> > > > > but I certainly expect they'll do so before finalizing their
document.
> > I
> > > > > know Jennifer posted a draft of her emacspeak documentation on the
> > > > > emacspeak list, so I suspect she's lurking here, and will do the
same
> > for
> > > > > us. And, of course, Saqib is active on this list, so perhaps he'd
like
> > to
> > > > > share about this? I do recall he offered us his own, quite
excellent
> > > > > speakup HOWTO last spring. Are there other speakup docs you've
> > written,
> > > > > Saqib? That one is the only one I'm aware of to date.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, let me speculate on the real reason IBM is up to all those
> > wonderful
> > > > > efforts they proudly list at the url provided above:
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe IBM wants to make money selling computers to the U.S.
> > > > > Government. I believe they want the option to sell systems without
> > > > > Microsoft applications, and Microsoft operating systems. Recent
news
> > > > > stories have explained about contracts from IBM to Redhat for
ports of
> > the
> > > > > Redhat distribution of open source linux for a range of IBM
servers,
> > and
> > > > > even IBM's S390 mainframe.
> > > > >
> > > > > To me, these facts point to the intention to be Sec.508 compliant
in
> > > > > systems proposals for U.S. Federal procurments. And, I say, "Amen,
and
> > > > > more power to them."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > IBM is authoring a howto about speakup? Where can I find a copy
to
> > look at?
> > > > > > And uhhhm, why are they doing it?
> > > > > > Greg
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:28:21AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Stick to the straight and
> > > > > > > > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > > > > > > > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste
feature
> > > > > > > > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does
not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that
Saqib
> > and IBM
> > > > > > > are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even
novice
> > users
> > > > > > > can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the
> > process. And,
> > > > > > > they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful,
and
> > that
> > > > > > > they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > >
> > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > >
> > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Janina Sajka]

Sorry, Saqib. It was probably me who spread the rumor. And I certainly had 
no basis for it, inasmuch as the IBM linux accessibility website clearly 
says you "agreed to coauthor." I guess I just assumed you held out for a 
little of that do re mi from one of the planet's richest companies.

You mean you only got the resume builder? Well, that's something. Why not 
have them bring you to the linux accessibility conference at CSUN in 
March? They could afford it. I'd ask, were I you. They really do owe you 
something, after all, since they are going to make that do re mi off your 
labor.



 On 
Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Saqib Shaikh wrote:

> Janina and everyone else
> 
> I am *not* getting paid.  I would be interested to know how this little
> conclusion was reached, and fear that rumours may be spreading across the
> email list so I'd like to make it clear that I was contacted by Jennifer
> saying "I'm writing a doc on Speakup, you've done a few docs already, would
> you like to coauthor this one?".  I replied yes.  During last term and my
> Christmas holidays I helped in my free time, between university assignments.
> So it's nothing glamourous.  All the work that I've done be it writing docs
> programs or helping others is purely because I wish to help.  In general I
> am helping someone with a computer five times a day and installing Linux at
> least once a week, even if they live in Australia.
> 
> I'm sure that it was a slip of the fingers, but I would like to clear up the
> mistake.
> 
> Before I go, like everyone money is always in high demand and donations to
> the Saqib Shaikh Piggy Bank fund are always thankfully accepted <grin>.
> 
> Regards, Saqib
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 3:55 PM
> Subject: Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup
> 
> 
> > Saqib:
> >
> > I just want to make my position very clear. Nothing I say about this
> > topic, today, yesterday, or tomorrow, is in any way about you--unless I
> > first tell you otherwise, I suppose! <grin> I am certainly aware who the
> > boss is in your relationship with IBM.
> >
> > I do want to say, also, that I think they've done the right thing
> > involving you, and I'm also glad to hear you're getting paid.  They've
> > done a great job, imho, with the emacspeak HOWTO documentation, aand I
> > expect no less with the speakup documentation you and they will create.
> > So, don't say anything you're not supposed to. That certainly isn't
> > necessary here. I expect they'll understand the importance of treating
> > this list the same way they treated the emacspeak list. That is all of
> > what I meant about World War III.
> >
> > As for me, I've initiated another contact channel with IBM. I do think,
> > though that it would be very appropriate for you to pass along the
> > expectations of folks on this list to them.
> >
> >
> >
> >  On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Saqib
> > Shaikh wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not allowed to make everything public but I guess we'll only get a
> bad
> > > name if we stay quiet.  It is *totally separate* from my previous docs -
> IBM
> > > were doing it and why reinvent the heel so they just turned the wheel
> into a
> > > motor-driven wheel with a tyre.
> > >
> > > Saqib
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup
> > >
> > >
> > > > Gregory:
> > > >
> > > > I don't know. Theyh haven't consulted me on their plans. Why don't we
> just
> > > > ask them to tell us all here on the list?
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > So will this new joint howto be a rewriting and incorperation of
> Saqib's
> > > original howto, or a totally new document?
> > > > > Greg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:36:53PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > Excellent questions, Gregory. IBM's Accessibility on Linux page,
> which
> > > is
> > > > > > at:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/projects/access/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > says "The IBM Linux Accessibility Team contributes to the
> open-source
> > > > > > community's accessibility efforts in order to help
> > > > > >    accelerate Linux."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is, of course, an incomplete statement which makes no sense
> on
> > > its
> > > > > > own. What do they mean "accelerate linux?" I suspect they don't
> mean
> > > "make
> > > > > > it run faster," for example. I'm sure there's a word missing in
> that
> > > > > > sentence, but I diagress ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This page goes on to say:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "November 15, 2001
> > > > > >    Saqib Shaikh, author of several Speakup documents, agreed to
> > > coauthor
> > > > > > new Speakup HOWTO with Jennifer Jobst."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since I see no link, I assume they're not offering up any drafts
> just
> > > yet,
> > > > > > but I certainly expect they'll do so before finalizing their
> document.
> > > I
> > > > > > know Jennifer posted a draft of her emacspeak documentation on the
> > > > > > emacspeak list, so I suspect she's lurking here, and will do the
> same
> > > for
> > > > > > us. And, of course, Saqib is active on this list, so perhaps he'd
> like
> > > to
> > > > > > share about this? I do recall he offered us his own, quite
> excellent
> > > > > > speakup HOWTO last spring. Are there other speakup docs you've
> > > written,
> > > > > > Saqib? That one is the only one I'm aware of to date.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now, let me speculate on the real reason IBM is up to all those
> > > wonderful
> > > > > > efforts they proudly list at the url provided above:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe IBM wants to make money selling computers to the U.S.
> > > > > > Government. I believe they want the option to sell systems without
> > > > > > Microsoft applications, and Microsoft operating systems. Recent
> news
> > > > > > stories have explained about contracts from IBM to Redhat for
> ports of
> > > the
> > > > > > Redhat distribution of open source linux for a range of IBM
> servers,
> > > and
> > > > > > even IBM's S390 mainframe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To me, these facts point to the intention to be Sec.508 compliant
> in
> > > > > > systems proposals for U.S. Federal procurments. And, I say, "Amen,
> and
> > > > > > more power to them."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > IBM is authoring a howto about speakup? Where can I find a copy
> to
> > > look at?
> > > > > > > And uhhhm, why are they doing it?
> > > > > > > Greg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:28:21AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Stick to the straight and
> > > > > > > > > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > > > > > > > > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste
> feature
> > > > > > > > > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does
> not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that
> Saqib
> > > and IBM
> > > > > > > > are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even
> novice
> > > users
> > > > > > > > can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the
> > > process. And,
> > > > > > > > they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful,
> and
> > > that
> > > > > > > > they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Geoff Shang]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> You mean you only got the resume builder? Well, that's something. Why not
> have them bring you to the linux accessibility conference at CSUN in
> March? They could afford it.

There's going to be a Linux accessibility conference at CSUN?  Sure wish
*I* could afford it.  Would love to be there.  Any papers need writing?
<grin> He says not so half-heartedly, having never delivered a paper before
...

Geoff.

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Thomas Ward]

Good idea. After all we are all Speakup users, and could all give good input
into IBM.

----- Original Message -----
From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup


> Gregory:
>
> I don't know. Theyh haven't consulted me on their plans. Why don't we just
> ask them to tell us all here on the list?
>
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
> > So will this new joint howto be a rewriting and incorperation of Saqib's
original howto, or a totally new document?
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:36:53PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > Excellent questions, Gregory. IBM's Accessibility on Linux page, which
is
> > > at:
> > >
> > >
> > >
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/projects/access/
> > >
> > > says "The IBM Linux Accessibility Team contributes to the open-source
> > > community's accessibility efforts in order to help
> > >    accelerate Linux."
> > >
> > > This is, of course, an incomplete statement which makes no sense on
its
> > > own. What do they mean "accelerate linux?" I suspect they don't mean
"make
> > > it run faster," for example. I'm sure there's a word missing in that
> > > sentence, but I diagress ...
> > >
> > > This page goes on to say:
> > >
> > > "November 15, 2001
> > >    Saqib Shaikh, author of several Speakup documents, agreed to
coauthor
> > > new Speakup HOWTO with Jennifer Jobst."
> > >
> > > Since I see no link, I assume they're not offering up any drafts just
yet,
> > > but I certainly expect they'll do so before finalizing their document.
I
> > > know Jennifer posted a draft of her emacspeak documentation on the
> > > emacspeak list, so I suspect she's lurking here, and will do the same
for
> > > us. And, of course, Saqib is active on this list, so perhaps he'd like
to
> > > share about this? I do recall he offered us his own, quite excellent
> > > speakup HOWTO last spring. Are there other speakup docs you've
written,
> > > Saqib? That one is the only one I'm aware of to date.
> > >
> > > Now, let me speculate on the real reason IBM is up to all those
wonderful
> > > efforts they proudly list at the url provided above:
> > >
> > > I believe IBM wants to make money selling computers to the U.S.
> > > Government. I believe they want the option to sell systems without
> > > Microsoft applications, and Microsoft operating systems. Recent news
> > > stories have explained about contracts from IBM to Redhat for ports of
the
> > > Redhat distribution of open source linux for a range of IBM servers,
and
> > > even IBM's S390 mainframe.
> > >
> > > To me, these facts point to the intention to be Sec.508 compliant in
> > > systems proposals for U.S. Federal procurments. And, I say, "Amen, and
> > > more power to them."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > >
> > > > IBM is authoring a howto about speakup? Where can I find a copy to
look at?
> > > > And uhhhm, why are they doing it?
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:28:21AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Stick to the straight and
> > > > > > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > > > > > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > > > > > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> > > > >
> > > > > The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib
and IBM
> > > > > are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice
users
> > > > > can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the
process. And,
> > > > > they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and
that
> > > > > they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> > > > >
> > > > > Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: speakup howto, was: Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Saqib Shaikh]

Ok, I can't speak for IBM since I'm just a 20 year old sitting in my halls
awaiting first day of term on Monday but I know that IBM is not only doing
stuff for accessibility but generally.

I'm speculating and *not* speaking for Jenifer or IBM.  But I'd guess that
Linux saves IBM money, is more reliable and most importantly is the biggest
chance they've got of once again becoming the biggest computer company in
the world - not likely but Linux makes it more likely.  In short Linux is
good business sense.

So it's also in IBM's business interest to make sure that Linux is widely
used so they're working on "Linux useability".  As an aside this means that
it must also be useable by the disabled.  Sure this has implications for sec
501 but it generally means that *more people use Linux*.

So if Linux benefits IBM and more people use Linux its a big big thumbs up.

This is just me talking off the top of my head and nothing official.

The howto is being proof-read at IBM and we'll let you know when more
happens.

Regards, Saqib

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Saqib Shaikh]

At least 0.5 of us are listening, and I'll make sure the rest of us does!

It's a bit too late for speakup-howto 1.0 but we'll consider for 2.0.  Maybe
a "neat little tricks" section?

Saqib
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup


> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
>
> > Stick to the straight and
> > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> >
> Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
>
> The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib and IBM
> are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice users
> can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the process. And,
> they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and that
> they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
>
> Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Janina Sajka]

Saqib:

Please convey to the other 0.5 the importance of running the draft by this 
group. Until thenIBM does not have a 1.0.

Please reassure me this will happen. It's World War III if it doesn't.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Saqib Shaikh wrote:

> At least 0.5 of us are listening, and I'll make sure the rest of us does!
> 
> It's a bit too late for speakup-howto 1.0 but we'll consider for 2.0.  Maybe
> a "neat little tricks" section?
> 
> Saqib
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup
> 
> 
> > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> >
> > > Stick to the straight and
> > > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> > >
> > Strongly agree, but with a suggested twist.
> >
> > The reinitialization feature should go into the HOWTO that Saqib and IBM
> > are authoring about speakup. It's a valuable tip that even novice users
> > can set up for themselves, and learn a little linux in the process. And,
> > they'll end up with a feature they are likely to find useful, and that
> > they wouldn't come upon very quickly on their own.
> >
> > Saqib, Jennifer, are you listening??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Steve Holmes]

Only reason I could see some people doing this is that would be their
reference, especially if they are new to linux and speakup.  They look at
the current list of features with their "current" environment which may
well be winblowsand perhaps DOS.  One sightable example might be
windows/frames to speak selected parts of the screen.  Somebody might
compare this with a similar feature available in their favorite winblows
screen reader.

BTW, I see that as a valueable feature to read such things as status
lines, top lines, etc.  What I do for an interim solution, I can
continually respeak the same part of the screen over and over if I want by
parking the cursor with the keypad-Dash key so the cursor won't move and
then reading the current line.  Obviously nothing as powerful as user
defined windows.

I wish I had more background knowledge on this so I could help towards
bringing this feature to pass.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> On 11 Jan 2002, Kirk Reiser wrote:
>
> > On another note, mentioning that something should be there because it
> > is part of windows/dos screen review packages is a non-starter with
> > me.  That means we should do something because it is available in that
> > other o.s.  I base what needs to be done on what features seem
> > reasonable to provide better access to linux.  I am not at all
> > interested in keeping up with those other packages.  So if you folks
> > want to make a comparison based on features, you might as well just
> > piss off.
>
> Kirk,
>
> I support your position completely! Speakup is at the point where
> it is vulnerable to the bells and whistles syndrome, where folks
> want to throw in the kitchen sink. Stick to the straight and
> narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> *<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*
> Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
> The Moon is Waning Crescent (4% of Full)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, and if you're eating a bannana, you can compare the taste of it to an orange too.
Greg


On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:07:49PM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> Only reason I could see some people doing this is that would be their
> reference, especially if they are new to linux and speakup.  They look at
> the current list of features with their "current" environment which may
> well be winblowsand perhaps DOS.  One sightable example might be
> windows/frames to speak selected parts of the screen.  Somebody might
> compare this with a similar feature available in their favorite winblows
> screen reader.
> 
> BTW, I see that as a valueable feature to read such things as status
> lines, top lines, etc.  What I do for an interim solution, I can
> continually respeak the same part of the screen over and over if I want by
> parking the cursor with the keypad-Dash key so the cursor won't move and
> then reading the current line.  Obviously nothing as powerful as user
> defined windows.
> 
> I wish I had more background knowledge on this so I could help towards
> bringing this feature to pass.
> 
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> 
> > On 11 Jan 2002, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> >
> > > On another note, mentioning that something should be there because it
> > > is part of windows/dos screen review packages is a non-starter with
> > > me.  That means we should do something because it is available in that
> > > other o.s.  I base what needs to be done on what features seem
> > > reasonable to provide better access to linux.  I am not at all
> > > interested in keeping up with those other packages.  So if you folks
> > > want to make a comparison based on features, you might as well just
> > > piss off.
> >
> > Kirk,
> >
> > I support your position completely! Speakup is at the point where
> > it is vulnerable to the bells and whistles syndrome, where folks
> > want to throw in the kitchen sink. Stick to the straight and
> > narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> > *<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*
> > Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
> > The Moon is Waning Crescent (4% of Full)
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Jason Symes]

Wrong. If a synth goes whacky, it must be reinitialized to get it to work
right, and not all synths have an on/off switch.
At 10:06 AM 1/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>On 11 Jan 2002, Kirk Reiser wrote:
>
>> On another note, mentioning that something should be there because it
>> is part of windows/dos screen review packages is a non-starter with
>> me.  That means we should do something because it is available in that
>> other o.s.  I base what needs to be done on what features seem
>> reasonable to provide better access to linux.  I am not at all
>> interested in keeping up with those other packages.  So if you folks
>> want to make a comparison based on features, you might as well just
>> piss off.
>
>Kirk,
>
>I support your position completely! Speakup is at the point where
>it is vulnerable to the bells and whistles syndrome, where folks
>want to throw in the kitchen sink. Stick to the straight and
>narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
>belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
>really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
>
>Chuck
>
>
>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*
>Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
>The Moon is Waning Crescent (4% of Full)
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
Jason Symes

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Kirk Reiser]

Jason Symes <jsymes@netins.net> writes:

> Wrong. If a synth goes whacky, it must be reinitialized to get it to work
> right, and not all synths have an on/off switch.

Wrong!  If a synth is running under linux it can be re-initialized.
If a synth is running under dos/dos-emu and you want it re-initialized
then write the code.  If a synth doesn't have an on/off switch then
unplug it.  If it only runs with batteries I'd like to know how they
did it.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

Right, because Chuck outlined a good way of doing that with an internal as well as external synth. It certainly was a procedure I would not have thought of.
Greg


On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 09:29:17AM -0600, Jason Symes wrote:
> Wrong. If a synth goes whacky, it must be reinitialized to get it to work
> right, and not all synths have an on/off switch.
> At 10:06 AM 1/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >On 11 Jan 2002, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> >
> >> On another note, mentioning that something should be there because it
> >> is part of windows/dos screen review packages is a non-starter with
> >> me.  That means we should do something because it is available in that
> >> other o.s.  I base what needs to be done on what features seem
> >> reasonable to provide better access to linux.  I am not at all
> >> interested in keeping up with those other packages.  So if you folks
> >> want to make a comparison based on features, you might as well just
> >> piss off.
> >
> >Kirk,
> >
> >I support your position completely! Speakup is at the point where
> >it is vulnerable to the bells and whistles syndrome, where folks
> >want to throw in the kitchen sink. Stick to the straight and
> >narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> >belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> >really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> >
> >Chuck
> >
> >
> >*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*
> >Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
> >The Moon is Waning Crescent (4% of Full)
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> Jason Symes
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Steve Holmes]

Internal devices such as modems and synthesisers don't have on/off
switches.  At least I've never seen one.  As for resetting the device, yes
you can reload the proc files for controling synth parms, but most synths
have a "setup string" You could echo that to the synth to reset the synth
also.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Right, because Chuck outlined a good way of doing that with an internal as well as external synth. It certainly was a procedure I would not have thought of.
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 09:29:17AM -0600, Jason Symes wrote:
> > Wrong. If a synth goes whacky, it must be reinitialized to get it to work
> > right, and not all synths have an on/off switch.
> > At 10:06 AM 1/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > >On 11 Jan 2002, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> > >
> > >> On another note, mentioning that something should be there because it
> > >> is part of windows/dos screen review packages is a non-starter with
> > >> me.  That means we should do something because it is available in that
> > >> other o.s.  I base what needs to be done on what features seem
> > >> reasonable to provide better access to linux.  I am not at all
> > >> interested in keeping up with those other packages.  So if you folks
> > >> want to make a comparison based on features, you might as well just
> > >> piss off.
> > >
> > >Kirk,
> > >
> > >I support your position completely! Speakup is at the point where
> > >it is vulnerable to the bells and whistles syndrome, where folks
> > >want to throw in the kitchen sink. Stick to the straight and
> > >narrow and make sure each feature under consideration really
> > >belongs in a screen reader. Examples: the cut and paste feature
> > >really did belong; the reinitialization feature really does not.
> > >
> > >Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*
> > >Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
> > >The Moon is Waning Crescent (4% of Full)
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Speakup mailing list
> > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > Jason Symes
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Raul A. Gallegos]

This is dos thinking.  You do not need to initialize a synth in Linux.
As Kirk stated unplug it or recycle it and all will be well with it.

Jason Symes said the following on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 09:29:17AM -0600:
> Wrong. If a synth goes whacky, it must be reinitialized to get it to work
> right, and not all synths have an on/off switch.

--
We are writing this e-mail to inform you that the mail server is down.
Please do not call the help desk for assistance.  To see the progress of
any outage refer to your e-mail notifications.
Raul A. Gallegos - http://www.asmodean.net

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

I've never come across a situation where insert-enter hasn't been
sufficient to restore the synth.  Keypad-enter will reset some settings on
its own, like pitch.

Geoff.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Kirk Reiser said the following on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 09:48:17AM -0500:
> On another note, mentioning that something should be there because it
> is part of windows/dos screen review packages is a non-starter with
> me.  That means we should do something because it is available in that
> other o.s.  I base what needs to be done on what features seem
> reasonable to provide better access to linux.  I am not at all
> interested in keeping up with those other packages.  So if you folks
> want to make a comparison based on features, you might as well just
> piss off.


In that case Kirk.  How about scripting support for speakup.  *big
grin*  Oh, and don't forget about adding msaa support as well for using 
lynx.  lol.

Sorry, I could not pass that one up.  I'll go back to my hole now.

-- 
We are writing this e-mail to inform you that the mail server is down.
Please do not call the help desk for assistance.  To see the progress of
any outage refer to your e-mail notifications.
Raul A. Gallegos - http://www.asmodean.net

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Thomas Ward]

Hi, while I agree that not all the features in other screen readers are just
needed, but some are vary useful and helpful. One I'd rreally liked to see
added to the todo list is an exception dictionary. For example when writing
a program my synth might say printf when it is easier to read C code when it
says print f.
However, I much rather see stability and known bugs to be fixed before new
fangled features were put in.
For example while in pine it reads the prier email subject and then the
current one. I'd much rather see that quark be fixed rather than search
features, exception dictionaries, etc.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Geoff Shang]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:

> For example while in pine it reads the prier email subject and then the
> current one. I'd much rather see that quark be fixed rather than search
> features, exception dictionaries, etc.

I assume this is when you arrow or use n and p to move through the index,
but you didn't say so I'm having to guess here.  This is because pine is
defaulted to show the selected message in a different type to all the
others, and thus it has to rewrite the prior entry before highlighting the
new one.  This is a common problem in many applications.

As an aside, I have "assume slow link" on which doesn't use such
highlighting, it just uses a greaterthan symbol to point out the current
message.  Although, if you're relying on prev and next to give you the
subject, this won't help you as it doesn't have to reprint the subject
anymore.  This doesn't personally bother me as I use speakup's reviewkeys
to read the index and just enter the message number of the message I want
(made easier with enable jump shortcut).

Geoff.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Thomas Ward]

Hi, I never heard about that method before. I'll have to try it.

----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Shang <gshang@uq.net.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup


> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
>
> > For example while in pine it reads the prier email subject and then the
> > current one. I'd much rather see that quark be fixed rather than search
> > features, exception dictionaries, etc.
>
> I assume this is when you arrow or use n and p to move through the index,
> but you didn't say so I'm having to guess here.  This is because pine is
> defaulted to show the selected message in a different type to all the
> others, and thus it has to rewrite the prior entry before highlighting the
> new one.  This is a common problem in many applications.
>
> As an aside, I have "assume slow link" on which doesn't use such
> highlighting, it just uses a greaterthan symbol to point out the current
> message.  Although, if you're relying on prev and next to give you the
> subject, this won't help you as it doesn't have to reprint the subject
> anymore.  This doesn't personally bother me as I use speakup's reviewkeys
> to read the index and just enter the message number of the message I want
> (made easier with enable jump shortcut).
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Kirk Wood]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> Hi, while I agree that not all the features in other screen readers are just
> needed, but some are vary useful and helpful. One I'd rreally liked to see
> added to the todo list is an exception dictionary. For example when writing
> a program my synth might say printf when it is easier to read C code when it
> says print f.

Don't most synths have an exception dictionary? The few that I have looked
at specs for so. But nobody seems to use them. I would think that this
would be a much better place to do that kind of work. I know it can't be
as thorough as what you can do at the computer.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Thomas Ward]

Well, any ideas how to go about this?
However, it is still simplar if the screen reader itself supports the
dictionary.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kirk Wood <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup


> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > Hi, while I agree that not all the features in other screen readers are
just
> > needed, but some are vary useful and helpful. One I'd rreally liked to
see
> > added to the todo list is an exception dictionary. For example when
writing
> > a program my synth might say printf when it is easier to read C code
when it
> > says print f.
>
> Don't most synths have an exception dictionary? The few that I have looked
> at specs for so. But nobody seems to use them. I would think that this
> would be a much better place to do that kind of work. I know it can't be
> as thorough as what you can do at the computer.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Janina Sajka]

No, unfortunately there are synths that do not support exceptions 
dictionaries. I'd wager that's most synths that except this feature on the 
software, not the hardware side.

				Janina

Who's patiently waiting to hear her name correctly pronounced by her 
computer, but won't go back to Windows just for that simple pleasure ...

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Kirk Wood]

On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> Well, any ideas how to go about this?
> However, it is still simplar if the screen reader itself supports the
> dictionary.

The documentation for your synth should tell you how to impliment
this. And it is only simpler for you to do this in the speech program. And
that is only because you don't have to look up how to do it. The reality
is that most should be done in the synth. Then it only beed be done
once. Take the synth to a new computer, and your exception dictionary is
still there. Use a new speech program and it is still there.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Steve Holmes]

If one owns a speakout, look at the appendix files at the end.  Sorry,
can't remember which one off my head but there is one that explains all
the possible command line parameters for the DOS driver and possible
control-E prefixed commands that can be sent to the synth via
/proc/speakup/speakout/direct.  In fact, I have a shell script that I can
set the internal clock from the computer's clock

On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:

> Well, any ideas how to go about this?
> However, it is still simplar if the screen reader itself supports the
> dictionary.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kirk Wood <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:45 AM
> Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup
>
>
> > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > > Hi, while I agree that not all the features in other screen readers are
> just
> > > needed, but some are vary useful and helpful. One I'd rreally liked to
> see
> > > added to the todo list is an exception dictionary. For example when
> writing
> > > a program my synth might say printf when it is easier to read C code
> when it
> > > says print f.
> >
> > Don't most synths have an exception dictionary? The few that I have looked
> > at specs for so. But nobody seems to use them. I would think that this
> > would be a much better place to do that kind of work. I know it can't be
> > as thorough as what you can do at the computer.
> >
> > =======
> > Kirk Wood
> > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> >
> > Nowlan's Theory:
> >         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
> >         the next freeway exit.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Thomas Ward]

In my case I have a Dectalk Express. I can't find any documentation yet on
how to put exceptions into the synth itself.
Probably because I have never needed it until now.

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Holmes <steve@holmesgrown.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup


> If one owns a speakout, look at the appendix files at the end.  Sorry,
> can't remember which one off my head but there is one that explains all
> the possible command line parameters for the DOS driver and possible
> control-E prefixed commands that can be sent to the synth via
> /proc/speakup/speakout/direct.  In fact, I have a shell script that I can
> set the internal clock from the computer's clock
>
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
>
> > Well, any ideas how to go about this?
> > However, it is still simplar if the screen reader itself supports the
> > dictionary.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kirk Wood <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:45 AM
> > Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup
> >
> >
> > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > > > Hi, while I agree that not all the features in other screen readers
are
> > just
> > > > needed, but some are vary useful and helpful. One I'd rreally liked
to
> > see
> > > > added to the todo list is an exception dictionary. For example when
> > writing
> > > > a program my synth might say printf when it is easier to read C code
> > when it
> > > > says print f.
> > >
> > > Don't most synths have an exception dictionary? The few that I have
looked
> > > at specs for so. But nobody seems to use them. I would think that this
> > > would be a much better place to do that kind of work. I know it can't
be
> > > as thorough as what you can do at the computer.
> > >
> > > =======
> > > Kirk Wood
> > > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> > >
> > > Nowlan's Theory:
> > >         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
> > >         the next freeway exit.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

The doubletalks can store dictionaries internally as well, though I think you need to be in plain DOS for this.
Greg


On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:35:03PM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> If one owns a speakout, look at the appendix files at the end.  Sorry,
> can't remember which one off my head but there is one that explains all
> the possible command line parameters for the DOS driver and possible
> control-E prefixed commands that can be sent to the synth via
> /proc/speakup/speakout/direct.  In fact, I have a shell script that I can
> set the internal clock from the computer's clock
> 
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> 
> > Well, any ideas how to go about this?
> > However, it is still simplar if the screen reader itself supports the
> > dictionary.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kirk Wood <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:45 AM
> > Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup
> >
> >
> > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > > > Hi, while I agree that not all the features in other screen readers are
> > just
> > > > needed, but some are vary useful and helpful. One I'd rreally liked to
> > see
> > > > added to the todo list is an exception dictionary. For example when
> > writing
> > > > a program my synth might say printf when it is easier to read C code
> > when it
> > > > says print f.
> > >
> > > Don't most synths have an exception dictionary? The few that I have looked
> > > at specs for so. But nobody seems to use them. I would think that this
> > > would be a much better place to do that kind of work. I know it can't be
> > > as thorough as what you can do at the computer.
> > >
> > > =======
> > > Kirk Wood
> > > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> > >
> > > Nowlan's Theory:
> > >         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
> > >         the next freeway exit.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Kirk Wood]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> The doubletalks can store dictionaries internally as well, though I
> think you need to be in plain DOS for this.

There is a ready made utility to do this in DOS. But if you download the
chipset documentation it spells out how you can manually create the
exception dictionary.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

Hmmmm, what if I don't want to waid through chip set documentation?
Greg


On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 06:41:37PM -0600, Kirk Wood wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > The doubletalks can store dictionaries internally as well, though I
> > think you need to be in plain DOS for this.
> 
> There is a ready made utility to do this in DOS. But if you download the
> chipset documentation it spells out how you can manually create the
> exception dictionary.
> 
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> 
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Kirk Wood]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Hmmmm, what if I don't want to waid through chip set documentation?

Guess as normal you have choices. You could use DOS. You could try the
utility under DOSemu. You could wait for someone to provide you with an
alternate means. 

And answering the questions I can is why I am here.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Thomas Stivers]

Your best bet is the dosemu idea, I looked at the chip set docs for the
doubletalk and you have to get some windows program to compile the exception
dictionary for the doubletalk which kind of defeats the purpose.

Thomas Stivers
stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup


> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > Hmmmm, what if I don't want to waid through chip set documentation?
>
> Guess as normal you have choices. You could use DOS. You could try the
> utility under DOSemu. You could wait for someone to provide you with an
> alternate means.
>
> And answering the questions I can is why I am here.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

Ok, but won't things get screwed up with the synth if you run it in dosemu as opposed to native DOS?
Greg


On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 10:12:30AM -0600, Thomas Stivers wrote:
> Your best bet is the dosemu idea, I looked at the chip set docs for the
> doubletalk and you have to get some windows program to compile the exception
> dictionary for the doubletalk which kind of defeats the purpose.
> 
> Thomas Stivers
> stivers_t@mail.utexas.edu
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:54 AM
> Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup
> 
> 
> > On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > Hmmmm, what if I don't want to waid through chip set documentation?
> >
> > Guess as normal you have choices. You could use DOS. You could try the
> > utility under DOSemu. You could wait for someone to provide you with an
> > alternate means.
> >
> > And answering the questions I can is why I am here.
> >
> > =======
> > Kirk Wood
> > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> >
> > Nowlan's Theory:
> >         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
> >         the next freeway exit.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Thomas Ward]

Yeah, but I am using a Dectalk Express. I need documentation for my synth.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kirk Wood <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup


> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > The doubletalks can store dictionaries internally as well, though I
> > think you need to be in plain DOS for this.
> 
> There is a ready made utility to do this in DOS. But if you download the
> chipset documentation it spells out how you can manually create the
> exception dictionary.
> 
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> 
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Kirk Wood]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> Yeah, but I am using a Dectalk Express. I need documentation for my synth.

Have you gone to your manufacturer's web site and looked for
documentation? Or are you waiting for someone to do it for you?

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Thomas Ward]

Yeah, and I can't find anything on Force Computers web site.Ever since Force
took over the Dectalk line I can't even find the latest firmware for it.
So I am going to have to email them, and find out were all the goodies are.


----- Original Message -----
From: Kirk Wood <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: suggestions for Speakup


> On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > Yeah, but I am using a Dectalk Express. I need documentation for my
synth.
>
> Have you gone to your manufacturer's web site and looked for
> documentation? Or are you waiting for someone to do it for you?
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Geoff Shang]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:

> Yeah, and I can't find anything on Force Computers web site.

I have the dec express manual, and so do a number of others.  If you want
something, just speak up and ask for it.

Geoff.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Janina Sajka]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:

> For example while in pine it reads the prier email subject and then the
> current one. I'd much rather see that quark be fixed rather than search

There's an easy way around this for most folks.

When in the Pine index of messages screen, use your thumb on the down 
arrow key. Use your middle finger on the 8 key on the numeric keypad. 

Now, press down arrow with your thumb to move to the next message, but 
don't wait for speakup to talk. Instead, just press 8 on the numeric to 
cause it to read the current line.

If I couldn't do this I'd go crazy with the hundreds of messages I plow 
through weekly.

Of course, there are folks with disabilities (in addition to blindness) 
who can't do this.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Gregory Nowak]

Even though I don't use pine, this way of reading messages in it suggests the usefullness of a macro system in speakup.
Greg


On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:29:37PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> 
> > For example while in pine it reads the prier email subject and then the
> > current one. I'd much rather see that quark be fixed rather than search
> 
> There's an easy way around this for most folks.
> 
> When in the Pine index of messages screen, use your thumb on the down 
> arrow key. Use your middle finger on the 8 key on the numeric keypad. 
> 
> Now, press down arrow with your thumb to move to the next message, but 
> don't wait for speakup to talk. Instead, just press 8 on the numeric to 
> cause it to read the current line.
> 
> If I couldn't do this I'd go crazy with the hundreds of messages I plow 
> through weekly.
> 
> Of course, there are folks with disabilities (in addition to blindness) 
> who can't do this.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Amanda Lee]

Please don't call it a "macro" that sounds too much like a virus and and too
much like Just for Whims talk!  I really don't care what it is called  but
yes there does need to be, as time permits it, a more flexible means to
configure across different applications and individual needs.  If Speakup
wants to compete on this platform and to hold it's ground, then it will be
necessary to  offer more of those "bells and whistles" which one may or not
consider personally important.

First off, it's important that Speakup is stable, supports a variety of
speech synthesizers and can at least support the typical functionality of a
dos or text-oriented screen reader.  If the author(s) aren't vested in this,
then since it's based upon their unpaid input, then this is obviously their
hchoice.

It wouldn't surprise me though, that once Linux emerges as a more commonly
utilized platform in Government and in the work and educational place, then
there's nothing to prevent another vendor from developing a Linux Screen
Reader to market for Accessibility.
So wether or not Speakup wants a competative edge, is obviously not my
decision to make.  But I'd certainly prefer seeing Speakup emerge as the
preferred Screen Reader for Linux.

Amanda Lee
Alexandria, VA

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Kirk Wood]

A macro should be called a macro and not something else. Piss on those who
are too stupid to know that not all macros are virus laden. And I think
(the other) Kirk has made it clear that his priorities are based on his
use. There is no reason outside getting a big head to be "competitive" 
with other speech packages. And I am glad that Kirk doesn't have a big
head.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: suggestions for Speakup

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

A couple of comments.

A number of these issues, like the pine indexing, should be dealt with once
the cursoring is figured out properly.  This is not trivial - it's been
worked on for the past 2 years.

I like the capitalisation idea.  However, things like printf are, IMHO, a
personal choice and should be left for a dictionary.  Personally, I want
speakup to say "printf", so I know I've actually written "printf" and not
"print f".  My accent PC says "write line" for "writeln" (a pascal and
javascript print command), which I find annoying enough.

Geoff.