My perspective on the console

My perspective on the console

[Zachary Kline]

Hiya,
    The recent discussions on Javascript, Flash, etc. have prompted me to share a personal perspective on the Linux console.  
    I realize GUIs have long supplanted text interfaces for the sighted user, and perhaps to a lesser extent for the blind user as well.  I note, for instance, the popularity of Jaws and similar on Windows.
    However, as someone who switched to Linux primarily because it was text-based and different from what I was used to, I very much appreciate the power of the console.      Unix commands are cryptic, difficult to comprehend sometimes without manpages or the like to deconstruct them.  Furthermore, unlike a Windows system, the graphical interface of Linux is not an essential component of the system--it's just an added bit of software on top of textual tools.  I love the fact that with Speakup, I'm able to read kernel messages, and even debug problems, before anything more graphical than a colored 80X25 screen comes up.
    That all being said, some applications on the console are lacking.  Word processing, web browsing--yes, even with all the security implications of Javascript which I don't know about, it does get used a lot--and things like PDF viewers and such.  There are textual tools to accomplish some of that stuff, convert PDF, write formatted documents (ala TeX), etc.  I love all that power.
    Personally, I realize the future may lie in infinitely smaller devices than a PC.  But I love the Bash prompt, and hope it never goes away.
Sorry for the rambling nature of this email, folks.
Yours,
Zack.

Re: My perspective on the console

[Doug Sutherland]

Zach,

What I have been thinking for some years now is that what is 
needed is better command line based shells with less cryptic 
commands built out the more cryptic, with some emphasis on
speech modality, like ability to have the whole interaction in 
a buffer that can be navigated forwards and backwards, by 
screens or pages at a time, or by many other configurable 
means. So yes, I agree, the current command line tools are
super powerful but not easy to use, and much work needs to
be done there. Basically we need something other than bash
as the shell, with different ideas as to how command line 
should be interpreted, managed, and configured, and then
better applications to run in such an environment.

I hope to work towards this some day, but I am starting
on a lower level trying to tackle how to get linux into the 
pocket so its not chained to your desk. 

  -- Doug

Re: My perspective on the console

[Zachary Kline]

Hello,
    Well, I personally like the Bash cryptic commands to some extent, and 
traditional Unix commands have been around for years.  But I can see your 
point.  As for a shell buffer, I find Emacspeak to be very useful in that 
regard--as well as being a very nice bit of software in general.  It's 
definitely not for everybody, though.
    I also love the console for the opertunities it provides for gaming 
under Linux--yes, I admit it, I do that sometimes.  Nethack, Adom, and the 
other Roguelike games work horribly under Windows, but with Speakup's 
ability to track the cursor and do so character by character and vertically 
as well as horizontally, they work quite well.  I have yet to see a 
graphical (or audio, for that matter) game for Linux which will work as 
well.
Yours,
Zack.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Sutherland" <doug@proficio.ca>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: My perspective on the console


> Zach,
>
> What I have been thinking for some years now is that what is
> needed is better command line based shells with less cryptic
> commands built out the more cryptic, with some emphasis on
> speech modality, like ability to have the whole interaction in
> a buffer that can be navigated forwards and backwards, by
> screens or pages at a time, or by many other configurable
> means. So yes, I agree, the current command line tools are
> super powerful but not easy to use, and much work needs to
> be done there. Basically we need something other than bash
> as the shell, with different ideas as to how command line
> should be interpreted, managed, and configured, and then
> better applications to run in such an environment.
>
> I hope to work towards this some day, but I am starting
> on a lower level trying to tackle how to get linux into the
> pocket so its not chained to your desk.
>
>  -- Doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

RE: My perspective on the console

[Deborah Norling]

> What I have been thinking for some years now is that what is
> needed is better command line based shells with less cryptic
> commands built out the more cryptic, with some emphasis on
> speech modality, like ability to have the whole interaction in
> a buffer that can be navigated forwards and backwards, by
> screens or pages at a time, or by many other configurable
> means. So yes, I agree, the current command line tools are
> super powerful but not easy to use, and much work needs to
> be done there. Basically we need something other than bash
> as the shell, with different ideas as to how command line
> should be interpreted, managed, and configured, and then
> better applications to run in such an environment.

A lot of the good ideas on designing user-friendly console interfaces are
getting lost because today's programmers either work with a gui or they are
nerdy enough to cope with the cryptic unix command-line.

My husband restores old hardware, the way some people restore ancient cars.
I've gotten to play with lots of old operating systems, and many, like
Tops20, are a lot less cryptic than unix.

To get ideas about how to implement console interfaces in old-fashioned
operating systems, you might want to play with the fully accessible simh
	http://simh.trailing-edge.com

Which is a simulator for old hardware. I've run simh on both linux and
windows. 

Using simh I recently installed and played with RSTS/E on a simulated
PDP-1170. Very fun and gives you a broader perspective.

--Debee