FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Matt Campbell]

I have been watching the thread about FreedomBox's supposed violation of 
the Mozilla Public License, and I wish to publicly set the record straight.

Section 3.2 of the MPL does clearly say that any modifications to 
covered code must be released as source code.  However, we did not need 
to make any modifications to Mozilla to add speech output or voice 
commands.  As Aaron Leventhal said, we were able to do it by writing a 
new component that uses Mozilla's existing application programming 
interfaces (API's).  Therefore, we are not obligated to release the code 
that adds speech output and voice commands.

While I would prefer to release our ocde under an open-source license, I 
understand and respect Serotek's reasons for not doing so.  The company 
needs to protect its intellectual proprety.  I think we've made a good 
compromise by making the software available at no cost to the user.  
Furthermore, uninformed public statements such as those made about the 
alleged license violation only tarnish the reputation of a company 
that's trying to do good for the community while still doing well.

For more information about the Mozilla Public License, read the FAQ, 
which is available at:

http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/FAQ.html

If you have further questions or concerns, please contact me privately; 
I don't believe this discussion is appropriate for the Speakup list.  
Thank you.

-- 
Matt Campbell
Lead Programmer
Serotek Corporation
www.freedombox.info

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Janina Sajka]

Matt Campbell writes:
> If you have further questions or concerns, please contact me privately; 
> I don't believe this discussion is appropriate for the Speakup list.  
> Thank you.

No, Matt, it's perfectly appropriate. Perhaps the people questioning whether the license is violated are wrong, perhaps they're not. But, there's every reason to air it in public.

At least, this is my view. Clearly, you have just stated a different view, but you didn't defend it. If you insist this is inappropriate for the Speakup list, I think you need to explain yourself.

> 
> -- 
> Matt Campbell
> Lead Programmer
> Serotek Corporation
> www.freedombox.info
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Matt Campbell]

Janina Sajka wrote:

>At least, this is my view. Clearly, you have just stated a different view, but you didn't defend it. If you insist this is inappropriate for the Speakup list, I think you need to explain yourself.
>  
>
I said that only because I didn't want yet another off-topic thread to 
drag on for too long on the Speakup list.  Some people, myself included, 
have left the list in the past due to an excess off-topic discussions.  
I was only trying to be considerate.

Matt

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Trevor Astrope]

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, Matt Campbell wrote:
> I said that only because I didn't want yet another off-topic thread to 
> drag on for too long on the Speakup list.  Some people, myself included, 
> have left the list in the past due to an excess off-topic discussions.  
> I was only trying to be considerate.

Thanks. I appreciate it. This is by far the noisiest list I've ever been 
on.

Trevor

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Janina Sajka]

Oh, I can very well understand that desire. Indeed, I've sometimes complained about the discussion of Windows topics on this list. For myself, I've never left the list--but I have certainly ignored it from time to time.

But that's precisely the point. This list has always ranged over many topics. The only real common denominator is accessibility for blind users, defined in the broadest sense so that we can talk about how we do almost anything on computers. It has always been that way here.

This is what leads me to say discussing the Freedom Box software is on topic, as is discussing whether or not it honors the Mozilla license terms. It's always been that way here, and you and I both know it because we've been hear for many years, even if we haven't both been here continuously.

Matt Campbell writes:
> Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> >At least, this is my view. Clearly, you have just stated a different view, 
> >but you didn't defend it. If you insist this is inappropriate for the 
> >Speakup list, I think you need to explain yourself.
> > 
> >
> I said that only because I didn't want yet another off-topic thread to 
> drag on for too long on the Speakup list.  Some people, myself included, 
> have left the list in the past due to an excess off-topic discussions.  
> I was only trying to be considerate.
> 
> Matt
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Ann Parsons]

Hi Matt,

Good response,  thank you.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

topics and list traffic, was: Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Gregory Nowak]

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Hash: SHA1

If you think this is bad, try joining the braillenote list for a day or
2. The so-called off-topic discussions, clutter, and traffic here are
nothing compared to what got posted on the braillenote list when I was
still on it a couple of years ago. I'm told by people I still know to
be on that list that this hasn't changed since I unsubscribed from it.

Oh well, there's another off-topic post for you, lol. Anyway, I just
wanted to point out that this list isn't noisy at all, compared to at
least one other blind list out there, and I wouldn't be surprised to
find out that there are others like it as well.

Greg


On Fri, Apr 09, 2004 at 08:21:13PM -0400, Trevor Astrope wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, Matt Campbell wrote:
> > I said that only because I didn't want yet another off-topic thread to 
> > drag on for too long on the Speakup list.  Some people, myself included, 
> > have left the list in the past due to an excess off-topic discussions.  
> > I was only trying to be considerate.
> 
> Thanks. I appreciate it. This is by far the noisiest list I've ever been 
> on.
> 
> Trevor
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

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Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Cheryl Homiak]

You all were discussing Mozilla/serotech/MPL possibly being offtopic for
the list. I have questions about freedombox itself; since it's new to me,
I don't know whether what I'm getting is normal for the present or I need
to look at my own system for the source of some things I don't think are
right. Is there at this point a specific list for these issues, especially
in conjunction with running on linux? If not, should I be asking my
questions here or writing directly to Matt and/or Serotech? I don't want
to be guilty of cluttering the list but in the several years I've been on
here it seems like not a whole lot is considered offtopic.
Thanks.

-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Tom and Esther Ward]

On 04/09/2004 02:11:37 PM, Matt Campbell wrote:
> I have been watching the thread about FreedomBox's supposed violation  
> of the Mozilla Public License, and I wish to publicly set the record  
> straight.
> 
> Section 3.2 of the MPL does clearly say that any modifications to  
> covered code must be released as source code.  However, we did not  
> need to make any modifications to Mozilla to add speech output or  
> voice commands.  As Aaron Leventhal said, we were able to do it by  
> writing a new component that uses Mozilla's existing application  
> programming interfaces (API's).  Therefore, we are not obligated to  
> release the code that adds speech output and voice commands.
> 
> While I would prefer to release our ocde under an open-source  
> license, I understand and respect Serotek's reasons for not doing so.   
> The company needs to protect its intellectual proprety.  I think  
> we've made a good compromise by making the software available at no  
> cost to the user.  Furthermore, uninformed public statements such as  
> those made about the alleged license violation only tarnish the  
> reputation of a company that's trying to do good for the community  
> while still doing well.
> 
> For more information about the Mozilla Public License, read the FAQ,  
> which is available at:
> 
> http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/FAQ.html
> 
> If you have further questions or concerns, please contact me  
> privately; I don't believe this discussion is appropriate for the  
> Speakup list.  Thank you.
> 
>--
> Matt Campbell
> Lead Programmer
> Serotek Corporation
> www.freedombox.info
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Doug Sutherland]

 > noisiest list

It seems to be a "ask anything computer related list" with some focus
on speech tech, and the occasional speakup related post. The thing
that bugs me is when people don't even bother using a search engine
before asking a question.

   -- Doug

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Can anybody tell me how fast the Linux computer needs to be in order
to use the Freedom Box thingy?  I'd like to try it, but I don't know
if a Pentium 266 is fast enough.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi, Ann.  I haven't tried the Freedom Box yet.  A Pentium 233 can run X,
but it will be slow.  After my desktop crashed, Mary Ann and I have
been sharing a P 233 laptop with 60 meg of ram.  As you know, she does
everything in the GUI.  Browzing with Mozilla works for her, but it is
real slow.  I wouldn't want to try running the Freedom Box on such a
slow system.  This box is still using Gnome 1.4 and I can't easily
upgrade it any way.

If you have more than 64 meg of ram try it, but be prepared to wait.  
Hope this helps.
          Kenny

On Sat, Apr 10, 2004 at 07:35:27AM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Can anybody tell me how fast the Linux computer needs to be in order
> to use the Freedom Box thingy?  I'd like to try it, but I don't know
> if a Pentium 266 is fast enough.  
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> -- 
> 			Ann K. Parsons  
> email:  akp@eznet.net 			
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  
> Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[David Poehlman]

I'd like to see your questions here.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cheryl Homiak" <chomiak@charter.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: FreedomBox ot?


You all were discussing Mozilla/serotech/MPL possibly being offtopic for
the list. I have questions about freedombox itself; since it's new to me,
I don't know whether what I'm getting is normal for the present or I need
to look at my own system for the source of some things I don't think are
right. Is there at this point a specific list for these issues, especially
in conjunction with running on linux? If not, should I be asking my
questions here or writing directly to Matt and/or Serotech? I don't want
to be guilty of cluttering the list but in the several years I've been on
here it seems like not a whole lot is considered offtopic.
Thanks.

-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Alex Snow]

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on the subject of companies and intilectual property, I believe the 
following article puts it in prospective quite nicely:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/03/09/bofh_protecting_bodily_waste/
- -- 
Not me, guy.  I read the Bash man page each day like a Jehovah's Witness reads
the Bible.  No wait, the Bash man page IS the bible.  Excuse me...
	-- More on confusing aliases, taken from comp.os.linux.misc
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=fkMn
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Re: topics and list traffic, was: Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Alex Snow]

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another noisy list is the blindy list. if you wanna see real noise 
join that during one of it's religion debates. they have been known to 
produce 1 to 2 hundred messages an hour.
On Fri, Apr 09, 2004 at 
08:48:05PM -0500, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> If you think this is bad, try joining the braillenote list for a day or
> 2. The so-called off-topic discussions, clutter, and traffic here are
> nothing compared to what got posted on the braillenote list when I was
> still on it a couple of years ago. I'm told by people I still know to
> be on that list that this hasn't changed since I unsubscribed from it.
> 
> Oh well, there's another off-topic post for you, lol. Anyway, I just
> wanted to point out that this list isn't noisy at all, compared to at
> least one other blind list out there, and I wouldn't be surprised to
> find out that there are others like it as well.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 09, 2004 at 08:21:13PM -0400, Trevor Astrope wrote:
> > On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, Matt Campbell wrote:
> > > I said that only because I didn't want yet another off-topic thread to 
> > > drag on for too long on the Speakup list.  Some people, myself included, 
> > > have left the list in the past due to an excess off-topic discussions.  
> > > I was only trying to be considerate.
> > 
> > Thanks. I appreciate it. This is by far the noisiest list I've ever been 
> > on.
> > 
> > Trevor
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> - -- 
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFAd1JV7s9z/XlyUyARAoREAJ90Brl9AiJIIDTkrH8eCR3v2kKHywCfanWJ
> KWwLnNUP4ynfnbxX4H7dXFM=
> =+BLB
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
Linux: Where Don't We Want To Go Today?
	-- Submitted by Pancrazio De Mauro, paraphrasing some well-known sales talk
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=hR5l
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Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Ann Parsons]

Hi Ken,

Oh, phew!  We were worried about you, old Ken.  You didn't show up on
the reflector for ages and ages, and I think Gene wrote you a note,
asking if you were OK.  He sent it snailmail.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Buddy Brannan]

On Fri, Apr 09, 2004 at 11:10:09PM -0400, Tom and Esther Ward wrote:
[Nothing, actually]

So this is the second time that Matt's post was quoted in its entirety
with absolutely no commentary whatsoever. What's going on there, Tom? 

FWIW, it appears--though only appears, so far--that I can only use
Freedombox on one computer. I got it to log in on Melanie's computer
with Linux. I can't get it to log in on my notebook, either Windows or
Linux, but at last my X seems to work on the laptop...still no clue
what's going on with this machine...still no X! Curiouser and
curiouser, but X or no X, Freedombox only allows me to log in on
Melanie's machine, which I can't stand and only tried to see if it'd
work, and now it will only log in on that machine...every other
machine just throws me back to the login screen! What a pain in the
ass! 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
------------------------------------------------------------
Help us bring our child home! Visit http://ouradoption.brannan.name to 
find out how.

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Cheryl Homiak]

My main problem is that freedombox is as slow as molasses for me; I mean
several minutes between speech outputs; really, I could take a nap!!!
Which leaves me not knowing what is happening; am I going to hear
something eventually or have I goofed up or been disconnected. Plus the
speech for me is painfully slow word by word, not very intelligible, and
has some kind of distortion; can't explain it; maybe like some of those
old movie soundtracks or something. My machine is 500 megahertz amdK6
processor; I've run gnopernicus and gnome on it some. I don't know if the
beta is just like this or if something on my system is really slowing it
down. My audio on computer and via internet is fine so it shouldn't be an
audio/soundcard issue.
Also, I'm wondering if there is someplace to look for info on working
choices, commands, what the choices in the preferences menu do, etc.
finally, I don't think I've been able to talk to freedombox yet, though
text entry does work, albeit very slowly. I may not have my sblive mike
settings right for that or something.
Any input on these issues would be appreciated.
Thanks.



-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Tom and Esther Ward]

Hi, Cheryl.
I think your problem is do to not having enough processor power and ram. For
example My new Linux box is a 2 GHZ Pentium with 512 of ram and Freedombox
is working fantastic on it. I also noticed a dramatic difference with other
Gnome applications. So processor speed and ram really count with x based
stuff.
I believe I saw somewhere on the site you needed at least  400 MHZ to run
it, but that might be for the Windows version and not the Linux version.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Cheryl Homiak" <chomiak@charter.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: FreedomBox ot?


> My main problem is that freedombox is as slow as molasses for me; I mean
> several minutes between speech outputs; really, I could take a nap!!!
> Which leaves me not knowing what is happening; am I going to hear
> something eventually or have I goofed up or been disconnected. Plus the
> speech for me is painfully slow word by word, not very intelligible, and
> has some kind of distortion; can't explain it; maybe like some of those
> old movie soundtracks or something. My machine is 500 megahertz amdK6
> processor; I've run gnopernicus and gnome on it some. I don't know if the
> beta is just like this or if something on my system is really slowing it
> down. My audio on computer and via internet is fine so it shouldn't be an
> audio/soundcard issue.
> Also, I'm wondering if there is someplace to look for info on working
> choices, commands, what the choices in the preferences menu do, etc.
> finally, I don't think I've been able to talk to freedombox yet, though
> text entry does work, albeit very slowly. I may not have my sblive mike
> settings right for that or something.
> Any input on these issues would be appreciated.
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> --
> Cheryl
> "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Matt Campbell]

Processor speed does matter, but I'd expect FreedomBox for Linux to work 
much better than this on a 500 MHz processor.  A few weeks ago I ran it 
on an old IBM Aptiva with a 266 MHz K6 processor and 64 MB of RAM, and 
it ran much better than what you describe.

Are any other sounds distorted, or is it just DECtalk?  For example, is 
the "welcome to the FreedomBox Network" sound distorted?

Also, it appears from a message you posted later that you're running a 
2.6 kernel.  I assume then that you're usind the snd-emu10k1 ALSA 
driver; is this correct?  Has anyone run FreedomBox under a 2.6 kernel 
with better results?  Finally, this shouldn't matter much, but what 
distribution are you running?

Matt

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Buddy Brannan]

Ugh. OK...I've got my X problem solved (it was a hardware problem--my
ol' Matrox card died, so now I have a shiny new NVidia card with
crappy proprietary drivers--but it works!) But now I'm up against a
different problem; namely, that I can't log into the Freedombox
Network with my ID number and PIN on any computer but Melanie's, and I
only used that computer to see if the thing worked and don't intend to
use her computer regularly because (frankly) I don't like her
computer. She does, though, so that's all that matters, but:

No Freedombox login on my Linux desktop;
No Freedombox login on my laptop in Linux;
No Freedombox login on the same laptop in Windows.

I just get thrown back to the login screen, even though the login and
password are typed correctly. So what gives here?! 

I can't very well beta-test this thing if'n I can't use it, can I?! 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
------------------------------------------------------------
Help us bring our child home! Visit http://ouradoption.brannan.name to 
find out how.

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Cheryl Homiak]

Hi Matt.
EVERYTHING is slow and distorted.
and never assume anything; I've tried it with commerical oss from opensound
and the kernel's oss. Alsa gives me fits every time i try to set it up,
though I did have it up with my sblive once. May try it again someday.



-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Cheryl Homiak]

Well, I have 256 mb of ram.


-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Doug Sutherland]

Well I have run x-windows and speech apps on 233Mhz machines with 128MB RAM,
so I don't think its unreasonable that x + moz + dectalk should work on a
500Mhz machine with 256MB RAM. Also, a friend of mine has run dectalk on a
166Mhz machine with no problems.

   -- Doug

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Matt Campbell]

Well, FreedomBox doesn't require ALSA.  I've tested it with the emu10k1 
OSS driver that comes with kernel version 2.4.22; I haven't tried a 2.6 
kernel yet.  And on my 266 MHz machine I used the cs4231 OSS driver that 
comes with the kernel.

To narrow down the problem, try the following.  First, start usound 
manually as explained in the README file.  Then, from the freedombox 
directory, type the following:

helpers/mplayer -ao usound http://www.freedombox.info/mp3/fb_talk.mp3

This will use the patched version of MPlayer that comes with FreedomBox 
to play an MP3 stream from the FreedomBox web site.  Let me know if that 
audio is distorted.

Matt

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Cheryl Homiak]

Mplayer crashed. Here is the text of the disaster. by the way, I then
tried running that same url, except for the helpers part of course,
through the mplayer i have installed on my own computer separate from
freedombox, and it came through normal speed and tone and volume, loud and
clear, no distortion.

Text when crashing:
MPlayer 0.92-3.2.3  (C) 2000-2003 MPlayer Team
CPU: Advanced Micro Devices K6-2 (Family: 5, Stepping: 12)
Detected cache-line size is 32 bytes
3DNow supported but disabled
CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 0 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 0 SSE2: 0
Compiled for x86 CPU with extensions: MMX MMX2 SSE SSE2

Reading config file /usr/local/etc/mplayer/mplayer.conf: No existe el fichero o el directorio
Reading config file /home/chomiak/.mplayer/config
Reading /home/chomiak/.mplayer/codecs.conf: can't open '/home/chomiak/.mplayer/codecs.conf': No existe el fichero o el directorio
Reading /usr/local/etc/mplayer/codecs.conf: can't open '/usr/local/etc/mplayer/codecs.conf': No existe el fichero o el directorio
Using built-in default codecs.conf
font: can't open file: /home/chomiak/.mplayer/font/font.desc
font: can't open file: /usr/local/share/mplayer/font/font.desc
Using usleep() timing
Can't open input config file /home/chomiak/.mplayer/input.conf: No existe el fichero o el directorio
Can't open input config file /usr/local/etc/mplayer/input.conf: No existe el fichero o el directorio
Falling back on default (hardcoded) input config

Playing http://www.freedombox.info/mp3/fb_talk.mp3
Resolving www.freedombox.info ...
Connecting to server www.freedombox.info[69.44.59.14]:80 ...
Cache size set to 320 KBytes
Connected to server: www.freedombox.info

Cache fill:  0,00% (0 bytes)    
Cache fill:  7,50% (24576 bytes)    Audio file detected.
==========================================================================
Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3
MP3lib: init layer2&3 finished, tables done


MPlayer interrupted by signal 4 in module: init_audio_codec
- MPlayer crashed by an 'Illegal Instruction'.
  It usually happens when you run it on a CPU different than the one it was
  compiled/optimized for.
  Verify this!
- MPlayer crashed by bad usage of CPU/FPU/RAM.
  Recompile MPlayer with --enable-debug and make a 'gdb' backtrace and
  disassembly. For details, see DOCS/bugreports.html#crash.b.
- MPlayer crashed. This shouldn't happen.
  It can be a bug in the MPlayer code _or_ in your drivers _or_ in your gcc
  version. If you think it's MPlayer's fault, please read DOCS/bugreports.html
  and follow the instructions there. We can't and won't help unless you provide
  this information when reporting a possible bug.

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

I think that message was first and moremost unintelligible, and what I
could read of it didn't make sense at all.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[nick G]

Hey Matt speaking of Kernels, what's the difference between kernel 2.4 and
2.6?
Thanks,
Nick
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Campbell" <mattc@freedombox.cc>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: FreedomBox ot?


> Well, FreedomBox doesn't require ALSA.  I've tested it with the emu10k1
> OSS driver that comes with kernel version 2.4.22; I haven't tried a 2.6
> kernel yet.  And on my 266 MHz machine I used the cs4231 OSS driver that
> comes with the kernel.
>
> To narrow down the problem, try the following.  First, start usound
> manually as explained in the README file.  Then, from the freedombox
> directory, type the following:
>
> helpers/mplayer -ao usound http://www.freedombox.info/mp3/fb_talk.mp3
>
> This will use the patched version of MPlayer that comes with FreedomBox
> to play an MP3 stream from the FreedomBox web site.  Let me know if that
> audio is distorted.
>
> Matt
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Cheryl's error message is familiar to me. I have had it pop up on
my system a couple of times but have not pursued or solved it.
Evidently mplayer crashed after an essentially normal startup. I
would be interested to know what happens in this situation since
it might help my case too.

Chuck


- -- 
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (57% of Full)
My home page is now at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
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Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Buddy Brannan]

Hey Cheryl,

Same problem with distorted audio here (distorted audio that I can't
understand, so I turned off the prerecorded prompts), and, trying
Matt's troubleshooting suggestion, I got the same thing you did. 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
------------------------------------------------------------
Help us bring our child home! Visit http://ouradoption.brannan.name to 
find out how.

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Alex Snow]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've ran x and speach apps on a pentium 133 with 160mb of extremely slow 
ram and it worked. it was a little bit laggy but it worked.

- -- 
On the Internet, no one knows you're using Windows NT
	-- Submitted by Ramiro Estrugo, restrugo@fateware.com
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Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Janina Sajka]

Not so fast, Matt.

What are you doing? What's this about you posting helpful advice about a non Speakup related application on the Speakup list. I'm sorry, but I must call you to task. Have you changed your mind about your post the other day calling discussions of the Mozilla license and Freedom Box' obligations off topic? Are you now considering Freedom Box on topic for the Speakup list? Or do you just think the license discussion is off topic but technical, user support type discussion on topic.

Which is it?

I think we deserve to know since you're the one who raised the issue most recently. So, let's finish that conversation. Which is it, Matt?

Matt Campbell writes:
> Well, FreedomBox doesn't require ALSA.  I've tested it with the emu10k1 
> OSS driver that comes with kernel version 2.4.22; I haven't tried a 2.6 
> kernel yet.  And on my 266 MHz machine I used the cs4231 OSS driver that 
> comes with the kernel.

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Doug Sutherland]

 > Not so fast, Matt.

Matt posted his reply re licensing issues.
It was very clear. Did you not catch that?
They did not make changes to mozilla.
They used the mozilla API.

   -- Doug

Re: FreedomBox ot? sound problem

[Cheryl Homiak]

Don't know if this is related to freedombox/usound or not, but it appears
to have happened after I installed freedombox and ran usound. I have
kernels with commerical oss and I have kernels with the sblive support
(just under general sound in 2.4 kernels; under oss (deprecated) in 2.6
kernels). the reason I had kernels with both is that sometimes when I
upgrade commercial oss there are temporary glitches (mainly because of
differences of debian from other distros) and I want a backup. well, this
has been working fine; both sound systems have been working fine. Now,
although my commercial oss is still fine, when I switch to a kernel with
built-in sblive and try to run most applications, i get errors about
"/dev/dsp: no such device" and oss not opening. /dev/dsp is indeed there,
along with al the other /dev/dsp devices. I'm in the process now of
modularizing it to see if that will give me any further error messages,
but this is really weird. Could usound and/or freedombox have changed
something or is this totally out-of-the-blue unrelated?
Thanks.



-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Cheryl Homiak]

The interesting thing also is that while freedombox's mplayer crashed, the
mplayer I have installed handled the url just fine.



-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Cheryl Homiak]

I hate to say that misery loves company, but there must be some truth in
the adage, considering the sigh of relief i just emitted. Not that I want
to wish problems on others, but being the ONLY one isn't fun.

Thanks.



-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Doug Sutherland]

The error messages you posted about mplayer said they couldn't find your
mpplayer config files. The two mplayers must be set up differently. It
seems to be looking for files that don't exist in that location.

   -- Doug

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Ron Marriage]

I think his comment wasn't that the Freedom Box was off topic, but that the discussion about the license was incorrect.
Had anyone read the press release from Freedom Box, or read the license info off the Mozilla site they wouldn't have made the mistakes that were being made.
Incorrect information shouldn't be allowed to spread, and that was what was happening.

Ron

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: FreedomBox ot?


> Not so fast, Matt.
> 
> What are you doing? What's this about you posting helpful advice about a non Speakup related application on the Speakup list. I'm sorry, but I must call you to task. Have you changed your mind about your post the other day calling discussions of the Mozilla license and Freedom Box' obligations off topic? Are you now considering Freedom Box on topic for the Speakup list? Or do you just think the license discussion is off topic but technical, user support type discussion on topic.
> 
> Which is it?
> 
> I think we deserve to know since you're the one who raised the issue most recently. So, let's finish that conversation. Which is it, Matt?
> 
> Matt Campbell writes:
> > Well, FreedomBox doesn't require ALSA.  I've tested it with the emu10k1 
> > OSS driver that comes with kernel version 2.4.22; I haven't tried a 2.6 
> > kernel yet.  And on my 266 MHz machine I used the cs4231 OSS driver that 
> > comes with the kernel.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: FreedomBox ot? sound problem

[Cheryl Homiak]

Well, got the same results. when i built sound support into the kernel and
modularized emu10k1, it didn't load itself; I had to load the emu10k1 and
ac97_codec modules. then, as with unmodularized, saytime worked, but most
applications which would be using /dev/dsp as output file, did not work.
I've searched google and haven't found an answer that helps my case. But
at least the commercial oss, which is what I was primarily using anyway,
works fine. I only wanted to doublecheck with the kernel sound support and
a 2.4 kernel 92.4.25) to make sure the problem with freedombox wasn't
related to conflicts with commercial oss. And I also don't like unsolved
mysteries.





-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Janina Sajka]

The discussion I remember had to do with how busy this list is and how far ranging the topics disucssed here. So, I'm just asking Matt whether he's decided to go along with the general list ethos and discuss both the technology and the license of Freedom Box, or whether he's being inconsistent with the views he prevously expressed when he said our discussions of the FB license where "inappropriate" and we should take up any further questions with him personally.

I think this is a resonable question since he brought up the issue. I have no problem with Matt offering help on this list to people trying out Freedom Box, in fact I welcome it. But I do think it reasonable to ask people to be consistent in what they say and do.

I'm also not trying to start a flame. I just want to understand what the conclusion is to the issue of what topics are appropriate for the Speakup list as Matt understands that. That's what I'm asking. Is this so unreasonable?

Ron Marriage writes:
> I think his comment wasn't that the Freedom Box was off topic, but that the discussion about the license was incorrect.
> Had anyone read the press release from Freedom Box, or read the license info off the Mozilla site they wouldn't have made the mistakes that were being made.
> Incorrect information shouldn't be allowed to spread, and that was what was happening.
> 
> Ron
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:01 AM
> Subject: Re: FreedomBox ot?
> 
> 
> > Not so fast, Matt.
> > 
> > What are you doing? What's this about you posting helpful advice about a non Speakup related application on the Speakup list. I'm sorry, but I must call you to task. Have you changed your mind about your post the other day calling discussions of the Mozilla license and Freedom Box' obligations off topic? Are you now considering Freedom Box on topic for the Speakup list? Or do you just think the license discussion is off topic but technical, user support type discussion on topic.
> > 
> > Which is it?
> > 
> > I think we deserve to know since you're the one who raised the issue most recently. So, let's finish that conversation. Which is it, Matt?
> > 
> > Matt Campbell writes:
> > > Well, FreedomBox doesn't require ALSA.  I've tested it with the emu10k1 
> > > OSS driver that comes with kernel version 2.4.22; I haven't tried a 2.6 
> > > kernel yet.  And on my 266 MHz machine I used the cs4231 OSS driver that 
> > > comes with the kernel.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Doug,
It seems like mplayer checks for numerous configuration files in
many places, and as long as it finds one of them somewhere along
the way, the others that are NOT found are not a problem. They
apparently allow prioritizing and overriding of configurations
that way. I am not sure those messages about configurations not
found are all that important.

Chuck

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, Doug Sutherland wrote:

> The error messages you posted about mplayer said they couldn't find your
> mpplayer config files. The two mplayers must be set up differently. It
> seems to be looking for files that don't exist in that location.
>
>    -- Doug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

- -- 
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (55% of Full)
My home page is now at http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
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Re: FreedomBox and the Mozilla Public License

[Cheryl Homiak]

Well yeah, but since freedombox set up this other mplayer I would have
thought it had installed the necessary files. Now had I just typed
'mplayer" instead of "helpers/mplayer" from the freedombox directory, I
suppose it would have accessed my own mplayer; in fact, I just tried it
and that's correct.
One thing I don't really like about freedombox on my machine, which
wouldn't be such a big issue as a stand-alone, is that unless i'm missing
the location, the only explanations I find are in the little readme file.
I don't see either documentation or instructions in a file; I would
imagine the "help" function is supposed to handle the instructions. And
even though I looked at the website for usound, I didn't see much
documentation, unless again I missed it.


-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Cheryl Homiak]

It kind of surprises me that the license isn't included in the install
process anywhere; from listening to the main menu demo, you normally have
to read the license before you are installed. as much as I don't always
like wading through such things, i would think the company would insist we
be confronted with it before installing. Not that we shouldn't be
responsible enough to read it anyway.


-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

<smile> Janina, I wrote you a blistering reply to your earlier post,
and now I am glad that I didn't send it.  You are missing a part of
the puzzle seemingly.  Yesterday afn, Matt came onto the reflector and
spoke with us there.  He apologized to Kirk because he thought that
perhaps the Freedom Box was OT for this list.  Kirk replied in his
usual layed-back way that he didn't care, that it was OK with him.  He
chuckled and said something about Matt's having generated quite a bit
of traffic recently.

I chimed in and said that perhaps it was my fault for posting the
announcement on Speakup in the first place, but I got razzed so badly,
(everyone assuring me that *everything* was my fault), that I
retreated back into my corner smiling and chuckling to myself.  

I am happy to report to you and to fill in the missing piece of your
puzzle.  Art thou content, my friend?  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hmmm, I haven't been on the reflector for almost 2 years now. Maybe I
should get back on assuming I'm still welcome there (smile), and see
what's what, since it seems just being on this list is
not enough to stay current with the goings on.

Greg


On Sun, Apr 11, 2004 at 03:16:39PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> <smile> Janina, I wrote you a blistering reply to your earlier post,
> and now I am glad that I didn't send it.  You are missing a part of
> the puzzle seemingly.  Yesterday afn, Matt came onto the reflector and
> spoke with us there.  He apologized to Kirk because he thought that
> perhaps the Freedom Box was OT for this list.  Kirk replied in his
> usual layed-back way that he didn't care, that it was OK with him.  He
> chuckled and said something about Matt's having generated quite a bit
> of traffic recently.
> 
> I chimed in and said that perhaps it was my fault for posting the
> announcement on Speakup in the first place, but I got razzed so badly,
> (everyone assuring me that *everything* was my fault), that I
> retreated back into my corner smiling and chuckling to myself.  
> 
> I am happy to report to you and to fill in the missing piece of your
> puzzle.  Art thou content, my friend?  
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> -- 
> 			Ann K. Parsons  
> email:  akp@eznet.net 			
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  
> Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> !DSPAM:407999a9232021309535594!
> 
> 

- -- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

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Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Mike Keithley]

My machine is an 800 Meg Pentium with 512 MB of Ram and an 8 GB SCSI disk.
I'm using a cable connection and this might be why it's working so "well".

It works snappily enough without distortion from Dectalk and some of the
audio streams work great.  I think there is a problem with the distributed
mplayer binary in that it won't decode some audio streams.  Also, the
Freedombox Media Player doesn't close when streams of voice messages are
finished.  Text messages go through snappy and fine though there is
occasionally instability that causes Freedom box to crash--sometimes
leaving X running and sometimes shutting it down.  Haven't played with
chat.  A stream that works fine is the BBC world headlines section of
the news and talk radio section.

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Mike Keithley]

I think Linux users are a very small group compared to Window users of
Freedombox.  If we can't talk about it here, where else can we?  I don't
think it will be discussed in Freedombox's public beta forum--most
everyone there is using Windows.

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Cheryl Homiak]

My machine is 500Mhz but within the recommendations on the website. I also
have a cable connection. I did read the readme and followed the
instructions therein. I do have gnome2 on my machine and have run
gopernicus.


-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Not everyone there is using Windows.  You read the forum?  If not you
should.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Luke Davis]

blinux-list, would seem a good place for this particular discussion.
(Not that I particularly care, but it's a good option, to answer your
question as to what would be better)


On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Mike Keithley wrote:

> I think Linux users are a very small group compared to Window users of
> Freedombox.  If we can't talk about it here, where else can we?  I don't
> think it will be discussed in Freedombox's public beta forum--most
> everyone there is using Windows.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

FreedomBox Linux port mailing list

[Matt Campbell]

I've decided to set up a mailing list for the Linux port of FreedomBox.  
I recognize that a wide range of topics are permitted on the Speakup 
list, and that's why I decided to post a few FreedomBox related messages 
last Saturday.  However, I still think that some people would rather not 
have the discussion of FreedomBox cluttering their mailboxes.  So I've 
set up the linux-port@freedombox.info mailing list.  To subscribe to 
this list, send a blank message to linux-port-subscribe@freedombox.info.

Matt

Getting Speech Started With X and Gnopernicus

[Richard Wells]

I am sure that this has been covered but I can't for the life of me find 
right now. Once Gnopernicus is installed which it is, how to I get Gnome 
to use it? Once I start X, what do I do to start Gnopernicus? It seems as 
though it has something to do with going to some accessibility menu, but 
even my wife couldn't find it even clicking around.

Thanks

Re: Getting Speech Started With X and Gnopernicus

[Tom and Esther Ward]

Hi, you can start gnopernicus in two ways.

>From the run dialog.
1. alt+f2 to open the run dialog.
2. Type gnopernicus.
3. Press enter or click on run.

Automatic startup.

The following instructions is how to start gnopernicus automatically on
startup on Mandrake 9.2 or later.

1. alt+f1 to get the Gnome panel menu.
2. Arrow to configuration and press enter.
3. Arrow to Gnome and press enter.
4. Arrow to accessibility and press enter.
5. arrow to assistive technology support, and press enter.
6. Enable assistive technology support, and screen reader, and press
spacebar on close.
7. Log out, and then log back in.
8. You would be setup.

(Note, some distributions place the assistive stuff in gnome panel
menu\settings\accessibility.)

Re: FreedomBox ot?

[Cheryl Homiak]

Actually, blinux gets a lot more upset about what's ontopic and what's not
than Speakup does, imho. I actually got a "don't post offtopic" letter
from Hans once even though what I was posting really was about access in
linux, but I think he misunderstood what my question was. I'm very jumpy
about what I post on blinux--no offense to people on both lists as I am
myself.



-- 
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: Getting Speech Started With X and Gnopernicus

[Alex Snow]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

if you have your speach synth installed (festival, viavoice, etc) and 
run test-speech from the console and it works after you get x started 
hit alt-f2 to open the run dialogue. then type gnopernicus. 
gnopernicus should come up talking and you will get a dialogue box 
asking if you want to turn on accessibility. say yes and you should be 
set.
On 
Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 09:43:46AM -0400, Richard Wells wrote:
> I am sure that this has been covered but I can't for the life of me find 
> right now. Once Gnopernicus is installed which it is, how to I get Gnome 
> to use it? Once I start X, what do I do to start Gnopernicus? It seems as 
> though it has something to do with going to some accessibility menu, but 
> even my wife couldn't find it even clicking around.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple.  After that, it's all learned.
	-- Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, on X interfaces
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