FreedomBox

FreedomBox

[Lorenzo Taylor]

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Hmm.  The page says I need a trial account before I can use the software I just
downloaded.  However, I can't get a trial account because my OS (Linux) isn't
listed and it won't let me leave it unselected.  What to do?  I refuse to tell
them I am running WinBlows!!!!!!
- -- 
"We decided that we should evaluate the Microsoft offerings first. Once we
realised what a powerful set of tools they were, it became self-evident this was
the right way to go down."

Microsoft: the right way to go down
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Re: FreedomBox

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.

You're running into the reason I decided Freedombox just wasn't worth
it.
The way I understand it, they will sell your personal info to help with
the cost of the company.  The browser is set up to track your activities
on the web which is also sold.

I should tell you I was one of the people who helped them test the Linux
version with the understanding I could use the browser after it was
finally released only to have them change policys. 

          Kenny
	  

On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 10:40:23PM -0400, Lorenzo Taylor wrote:
> Hmm.  The page says I need a trial account before I can use the software I just
> downloaded.  However, I can't get a trial account because my OS (Linux) isn't
> listed and it won't let me leave it unselected.  What to do?  I refuse to tell
> them I am running WinBlows!!!!!!
> -- 
> "We decided that we should evaluate the Microsoft offerings first. Once we
> realised what a powerful set of tools they were, it became self-evident this was
> the right way to go down."
> 
> Microsoft: the right way to go down
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[Steve Holmes]

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Hash: RIPEMD160

- From what you say below, that sounds blatenly like spy ware to me!  I
ain't going there.

On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 09:37:10AM -0500, Kenny Hitt wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> You're running into the reason I decided Freedombox just wasn't worth
> it.
> The way I understand it, they will sell your personal info to help with
> the cost of the company.  The browser is set up to track your activities
> on the web which is also sold.
> 
> I should tell you I was one of the people who helped them test the Linux
> version with the understanding I could use the browser after it was
> finally released only to have them change policys. 
> 
>           Kenny
> 	  
> 
> On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 10:40:23PM -0400, Lorenzo Taylor wrote:
> > Hmm.  The page says I need a trial account before I can use the software I just
> > downloaded.  However, I can't get a trial account because my OS (Linux) isn't
> > listed and it won't let me leave it unselected.  What to do?  I refuse to tell
> > them I am running WinBlows!!!!!!
> > -- 
> > "We decided that we should evaluate the Microsoft offerings first. Once we
> > realised what a powerful set of tools they were, it became self-evident this was
> > the right way to go down."
> > 
> > Microsoft: the right way to go down
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

- -- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
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Re: FreedomBox

[Lorenzo Taylor]

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Hmm.  It sure does sound like Freedom Box is no better than Freedom Scientific
doesn't it?  Oh well.  I really thought it could be a viable solution until the
graphical browsers were more accessible to speech and/or braille applications or
until the text-based browsers worked better with technologies like javascript,
which I strongly dislike, but everyone is using it, so I need to be able to
execute it.

Well, maybe if I give it personal info that isn't really mine, huh?  Shhhhh!
Don't tell znyone!  Think it might work?  <smile>

Try to sell that FreedomBox!!!! <devilish grin>

Lorenzo
- -- 
"We decided that we should evaluate the Microsoft offerings first. Once we
realised what a powerful set of tools they were, it became self-evident this was
the right way to go down."

Microsoft: the right way to go down
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Re: FreedomBox

[W. Nick Dotson]

I remember when Mike Calvo was selling computers to FLDivision of Blind Services, he password protected lots of stuff so that the computer couldn't be 
maintained unless he did it...  (grin)  Tell you anything?

Nick

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:18:25 -0400, Lorenzo Taylor wrote:

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Hash: SHA1

Hmm.  It sure does sound like Freedom Box is no better than Freedom Scientific
doesn't it?  Oh well.  I really thought it could be a viable solution until the
graphical browsers were more accessible to speech and/or braille applications or
until the text-based browsers worked better with technologies like javascript,
which I strongly dislike, but everyone is using it, so I need to be able to
execute it.

Well, maybe if I give it personal info that isn't really mine, huh?  Shhhhh!
Don't tell znyone!  Think it might work?  <smile>

Try to sell that FreedomBox!!!! <devilish grin>

Lorenzo
- -- 
"We decided that we should evaluate the Microsoft offerings first. Once we
realised what a powerful set of tools they were, it became self-evident this was
the right way to go down."

Microsoft: the right way to go down
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_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[Cheryl Homiak]

I'm jumping in on this thread so I'm not sure what ocasioned the statement 
that "freedombox is no better than freedom scientific". If you are doing 
a comparison of freedombox vs. jaws, in my opinion, you are comparing 
oranges to apples in the first place; since I haven't used JAWS, I can't 
comment any further in this area. However, I will say that there are 
numerrous websites that I can't access or can't fully use with any tool I 
have in linux that work quite well for me using freedombox. So--better 
than freedom scientific? That's not a comparison I am able to talk about. 
But a useful tool: yes indeed, at least for my purposes. If you are 
looking for one tool to do everything you want done, that replaces 
everything else and removes all obstacles, I don't think it exists at this 
point. Part of the skill of being a linux user--and maybe even a 
linux/Windows user--is knowing what tool to employ under what 
circumstances. I do know that if i suddenly couldn't use freedombox any 
more as of tomorrow there would be several sites that would be completely 
unmanageable for me and several others that could be managed by other 
methods but which much greater difficulty. I guess what I'm trying to say 
is that, depending on your needs, a choice of tools that work for you may 
be more "which one when" rather than "either/or" or "better/worse".




-- 
Cheryl

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox

[W. Nick Dotson]

I think "corporate citizenship", or put more crudely, "business ethics" (or the lack thereof) were at issue.

Nick

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:47:43 -0500 (CDT), Cheryl Homiak wrote:

I'm jumping in on this thread so I'm not sure what ocasioned the statement 
that "freedombox is no better than freedom scientific". If you are doing 
a comparison of freedombox vs. jaws, in my opinion, you are comparing 
oranges to apples in the first place; since I haven't used JAWS, I can't 
comment any further in this area. However, I will say that there are 
numerrous websites that I can't access or can't fully use with any tool I 
have in linux that work quite well for me using freedombox. So--better 
than freedom scientific? That's not a comparison I am able to talk about. 
But a useful tool: yes indeed, at least for my purposes. If you are 
looking for one tool to do everything you want done, that replaces 
everything else and removes all obstacles, I don't think it exists at this 
point. Part of the skill of being a linux user--and maybe even a 
linux/Windows user--is knowing what tool to employ under what 
circumstances. I do know that if i suddenly couldn't use freedombox any 
more as of tomorrow there would be several sites that would be completely 
unmanageable for me and several others that could be managed by other 
methods but which much greater difficulty. I guess what I'm trying to say 
is that, depending on your needs, a choice of tools that work for you may 
be more "which one when" rather than "either/or" or "better/worse".




-- 
Cheryl

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[Sean McMahon]

Part of the problem is they aren't marketing this to the linux user in terms
that a linux user understands.  They aren't respecting or understanding our
culture.  When I first heard of freedombox, it was touted as like aol for blind
users.  So if they want to grab us, they'll have to be more like or at le3ast
have the option to be more like, linux.We like flexability and our privacy, that
was the concern from the user who wouldn't pay for freedombox.  It has nothing
to do with inferior product,  it's the personality of the product.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cheryl Homiak" <chomiak@charter.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: FreedomBox


> I'm jumping in on this thread so I'm not sure what ocasioned the statement
> that "freedombox is no better than freedom scientific". If you are doing
> a comparison of freedombox vs. jaws, in my opinion, you are comparing
> oranges to apples in the first place; since I haven't used JAWS, I can't
> comment any further in this area. However, I will say that there are
> numerrous websites that I can't access or can't fully use with any tool I
> have in linux that work quite well for me using freedombox. So--better
> than freedom scientific? That's not a comparison I am able to talk about.
> But a useful tool: yes indeed, at least for my purposes. If you are
> looking for one tool to do everything you want done, that replaces
> everything else and removes all obstacles, I don't think it exists at this
> point. Part of the skill of being a linux user--and maybe even a
> linux/Windows user--is knowing what tool to employ under what
> circumstances. I do know that if i suddenly couldn't use freedombox any
> more as of tomorrow there would be several sites that would be completely
> unmanageable for me and several others that could be managed by other
> methods but which much greater difficulty. I guess what I'm trying to say
> is that, depending on your needs, a choice of tools that work for you may
> be more "which one when" rather than "either/or" or "better/worse".
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheryl
>
> "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[Cheryl Homiak]

Oh for crying out loud!!! I just read your first post, Lorenzo!!!
Now I see that you're griping because you can't select linux as your Os!!! Ok,
   it should be there, I agree. but why don't you get creative and put it 
in with one of the other pieces of information where you are given a text 
entry field. that's what I did; think I may have put it with comments 
about my technology or something.

As for giving false information, you  may be sorry if you want to convert 
to a paying account 
when your trial period is up.


-- 
Cheryl

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

RE: FreedomBox

[jim grimsby]

when your trial period is up.
Can you  still use it if you pay the 25 bucks for it.
Or do you have to be on there network just to use the software.  
-- 
Cheryl

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[hank smith]

its 25 dollars plus 9.95 a month
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jim grimsby" <jimgrims@pacbell.net>
To: "'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'" 
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:48 PM
Subject: RE: FreedomBox


>
> when your trial period is up.
> Can you  still use it if you pay the 25 bucks for it.
> Or do you have to be on there network just to use the software.
> -- 
> Cheryl
>
> "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re: FreedomBox

[Ryan Mann]

You only have to pay the $9.95 per month if you want  full 
access to the Freedom Box network.  Otherwise, you can just 
pay the $25 for the software.


On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, hank smith wrote:

> its 25 dollars plus 9.95 a month
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim grimsby" <jimgrims@pacbell.net>
> To: "'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:48 PM
> Subject: RE: FreedomBox
>
>
>> 
>> when your trial period is up.
>> Can you  still use it if you pay the 25 bucks for it.
>> Or do you have to be on there network just to use the software.
>> -- 
>> Cheryl
>> 
>> "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

RE: FreedomBox

[jim grimsby]

So after the trial you have to pay the 9.95 just to use it as a web
browser?  If that is the case no way!

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of hank smith
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:22 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: FreedomBox


its 25 dollars plus 9.95 a month
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jim grimsby" <jimgrims@pacbell.net>
To: "'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'" 
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:48 PM
Subject: RE: FreedomBox


>
> when your trial period is up.
> Can you  still use it if you pay the 25 bucks for it.
> Or do you have to be on there network just to use the software.
> --
> Cheryl
>
> "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[Buddy Brannan]

On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 01:01:00PM -0700, jim grimsby wrote:
> So after the trial you have to pay the 9.95 just to use it as a web
> browser?  If that is the case no way!

In a word--no.

All you really need to pay is the $25 to register the DECTalk and the
voice recognition software (which isn't really very good--the voice
recognition, I mean). For that, it's a pretty decent Web browser. 
-- 
Protect Your Family From Disease
Learn about Glyconutrients, a discovery that helps your body  protect,
defend, and restore itself by enhancing cell communication. It's not  
disease orsymptom specific.

MIT says," This is 1 of 10 discoveries that  will change the world."
http://www.theoptimalhealthsolution.com

Re: FreedomBox

[Cheryl Homiak]

Buddy:
I'm not sure how you are using the web browser independently of being 
enrolled in freedombox. Frankly there are other things i like about 
fb besides the browser so i don't intend to do this, but please explain.
Thanks.




-- 
Cheryl

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox

[Buddy Brannan]

You do have to sign up for the demo, but once the demo expires, the
browser still works. At least, mine does after the beta period ended. 
-- 
Protect Your Family From Disease
Learn about Glyconutrients, a discovery that helps your body  protect,
defend, and restore itself by enhancing cell communication. It's not  
disease orsymptom specific.

MIT says," This is 1 of 10 discoveries that  will change the world."
http://www.theoptimalhealthsolution.com

Re: FreedomBox

[Cheryl Homiak]

Ok, but you aren't explaining how you do that without going into 
freedombox. Are you somehow calling up the browser by itself?


-- 
Cheryl

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox

[Matt Campbell]

Hello all,

I'd like to respond to some of the recent comments about FreedomBox and 
the company behind it.

First, Linux is now one of the available operating systems on the trial 
registration form.  We apologize for the inconvenience.

In response to Kenny:  Where on Earth did you get the idea that we sell 
personal information or track web browsing activity?  We have never done 
anything of that sort, and I find it insulting to suggest that we would. 
  As consumers, I and the other people at Serotek hate spyware, just 
like everyone else, so why would we spend time developign something that 
we knew our users would hate?  We prefer to use our limited resources to 
develop innovative products and services that users will enjoy. (Hint: 
I'm currently Serotek's only programmer.) So I'd seriously like to know 
what made you think that we sell personal information or track your 
online activities, because there isn't an ounce of truth there.

We did change our minds about making the browser available free of 
charge, but for good reason.  Would you actually use the FreedomBox 
browser at no charge, with Festival or Flite, if it was available?  As a 
consumer, I wouldn't consider it worthwhile to save a mere twenty-five 
dollars to put up with one of those awful text-to-speech engines, for 
all or even some of my web browsing.  Considering, as Cheryl pointed 
out, that FreedomBox gives you access to sites that aren't otherwise 
accessible under Linux, I'd say it's worth the twenty-five bucks.  It's 
certainly the most inexpensive adaptive technology product of its kind 
that I would consider usable by the average user.  If you want to 
continue using Lynx with Speakup, that's fine.  Don't get me wrong; 
Speakup is a good product, but we're in the twenty-first century now, 
and Lynx is way behind the times by any measure.  Anyway, as a business, 
we just didn't think it made sense to spend thousands of dollars worth 
of programming time to support one of these undebatably inferior 
text-to-speech engines.

As for Lorenzo's suggestion that we're no better than Freedom 
Scientific, I find the comparison ludicrous.  As I said before, for 
twenty-five dollars, our software is extremely affordable.  For only 
$9.95 a month, you get access to a wealth of content and other services, 
as well as painless software updates.  And we offer all of this under an 
operating system for which Freedom Scientific has done nothing.

In response to Sean, we do understand and respect the culture of the 
Linux community.  Yes, FreedomBox is like an AOL for the blind; and just 
as AOL has been paying more attention to intermediate and advanced users 
in recent years, so are we.  FreedomBox 2.0 may not yet have the 
flexibility of some applications that you're used to, but we're working 
on it; and as I stated earlier, we do respect your privacy.  Also, as I 
hinted earlier, we have taken Linux seriously when other adaptive 
technology companies have not.  In the face of opposition from others in 
the company, Mike Calvo has personally fought for the development of the 
Linux port of FreedomBox.  He has also permitted and even encouraged me 
to contribute back to open-source software.  Have we done some things 
that free-software purists don't like?  Sure, but we can't please 
everyone; and I think we've done more good for the blind Linux community 
than most open-source efforts directed at this community in recent 
years, including my own.  Is paying a fair price in return for a good 
product and service too much to ask?  Even Linus Torvalds uses 
proprietary software when he believes it's the best tool for the job, so 
I don't think usage and development of proprietary software is contrary 
to Linux culture.

If you have any questions, comments, or concerns about the points I've 
made here, please feel free to share them on this list.  I want to set 
the record straight and clear up any confusion that remains about 
FreedomBox and Serotek.  I hope this message has helped to accomplish that.
-- 
Sincerely,
Matt Campbell
Lead Programmer
Serotek Corporation
www.freedombox.info

RE: FreedomBox

[jim grimsby]

Hi, 
Ok now for my questions.
1.  can I use the freedom box as a web browser if I pay the 25 bucks and
do not sign up with the network. My trial has been up a long time ago
and I have no idea what my pass word was or anything like that.  
2.  does the linux version support msn messenger and aol like the
windows version does.
3.  what version of dectalk is shipped with it and will it overwrite the
dectalk 5.0 software I already have. 
4. if it does can I use your version of dectalk with speech-dispatcher
gnopernicus and emacspeak.  
5.  are there any plans to sell the payed version of via voice out loud
I have been hearing about, on other lists.  If so will I be able to use
it with the above programs?  
6.  is Braille support one of the things you will be doing in the near
future for us def blind users? 
Thanks in advance.  

Re: FreedomBox

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.

On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 07:42:11PM -0500, Matt Campbell wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I'd like to respond to some of the recent comments about FreedomBox and 
> the company behind it.
> 
> In response to Kenny:  Where on Earth did you get the idea that we sell 
> personal information or track web browsing activity?  We have never done 
> anything of that sort, and I find it insulting to suggest that we would. 
>  As consumers, I and the other people at Serotek hate spyware, just 
> like everyone else, so why would we spend time developign something that 
> we knew our users would hate?  We prefer to use our limited resources to 
> develop innovative products and services that users will enjoy. (Hint: 
> I'm currently Serotek's only programmer.) So I'd seriously like to know 
> what made you think that we sell personal information or track your 
> online activities, because there isn't an ounce of truth there.
> 

I got that idea from mail sent to me by your boss, Mike Calvo.  Hope I
got his last name spelled right.  He regularly posts messages telling
Freedombox members that he needs more customers to sign up for his service
so he can get better deals with businesses.  Even though I haven't had
anything to do with Freedombox since my browser stopped working, I
still get mail.

> We did change our minds about making the browser available free of 
> charge, but for good reason.  Would you actually use the FreedomBox 
> browser at no charge, with Festival or Flite, if it was available?  As a 
> consumer, I wouldn't consider it worthwhile to save a mere twenty-five 
> dollars to put up with one of those awful text-to-speech engines, for 
> all or even some of my web browsing.  Considering, as Cheryl pointed 
> out, that FreedomBox gives you access to sites that aren't otherwise 
> accessible under Linux, I'd say it's worth the twenty-five bucks.  It's 
> certainly the most inexpensive adaptive technology product of its kind 
> that I would consider usable by the average user.  If you want to 
> continue using Lynx with Speakup, that's fine.  Don't get me wrong; 
> Speakup is a good product, but we're in the twenty-first century now, 
> and Lynx is way behind the times by any measure.  Anyway, as a business, 
> we just didn't think it made sense to spend thousands of dollars worth 
> of programming time to support one of these undebatably inferior 
> text-to-speech engines.
> 
Yes.  I understood that that was exactly the plan.  Freedombox was going
to use Festival as a replacement for DECtalk in the free Linux version.
Just because you don't like Festival or Flite is no excuse to go back on
your promise.
Freedombox could talk to speech-dispatcher.  It has a simple interface
and will give access to more than one TTS engine.

I agree about Lynx.  I personally no longer use it for any browsing.

> As for Lorenzo's suggestion that we're no better than Freedom 
> Scientific, I find the comparison ludicrous.  As I said before, for 
> 

I agree with lorenzo.  It isn't the price, it is the lack of keeping
your promises that makes you no different from Freedom Scientific.
True, thay make a good screen reader, but (in my experience) they have a
bad attitude toward their customers and fail to keep their promises.

> the company, Mike Calvo has personally fought for the development of the 
> Linux port of FreedomBox.  He has also permitted and even encouraged me 
> to contribute back to open-source software.  Have we done some things 

What open source software have you contributed to?
I know Freedombox isn't open source and I'm not suggesting that 
should change.  I'm also not suggesting you aren't a good 
programmer, or that you haven't written very useful Linux programs in the past.

          Kenny

Re: FreedomBox

[Cheryl Homiak]

Kenny:
How would emails received be some kind of evidence that you are being 
tracked? Obviously, freedombox has no way of knowing that you are not 
still using this product, so of course you are still going to get emails. 
to me this is evidence to the contrary: you are not being tracked and 
nobody at freedombox has the slightest idea whether you are using their 
browser or not. And of course the problem with just buying the software is 
that you aren't going to get updates--I don't know whether that's why your 
browser stopped working or not but it's a possibility.

As for emails, I see no shame in mike Calvo informing customers of the 
need to expand and offering some incintives for people who bring in more 
customers. He's emailing people who, at least as far as he knows, use 
freedombox and, with the small customer base fb has, I can hardly imagine 
that anybody is raking in money hand over fist. My only regret is that I 
have no customers to refer. Have you written to freedombox and asked them 
to remove you from their email list?


-- 
Cheryl

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.

It isn't the fact I still receive emails, it's the content of the mail.
My browser stopped working the day the test period ended.
At that time, I did try to sign up for service only to find out they
wanted 200 dollars from me because they seemed to require I pay for dial
up access.
Yes, I reported this to them, and yes I did ask to be removed from all
Freedombox mailing lists.

           Kenny

Re: FreedomBox

[Keith Watson]

Cheryl,

OK, so I have never had and never will have a use for anything 
that company has to offer. The biggest and most compelling reason 
is because of their marketing tactics. The only way that they 
could have possibly sent email to a particular email address that 
I have is that they got it from a PRIVATE, note the caps, beta 
list that I am on. PRIVATE means private and for them to have 
gotten my email address they had to be on this list as well. This 
goes against the rules of the list and is quite rude. I would not 
expect spam from a PRIVATE beta list and I should never have 
received any, yet I did. This is only one of the reasons that I 
will never use them.

Oh, and if you don't think that they are tracking your surfing 
habits, look up the definition of a proxy. As soon as you log 
onto their service you are logging onto a proxy. This means that 
they can dictate where you go and also track your movements. Matt 
may claim that they are not doing any tracking, but from past 
experience with others in the company I have no doubt that it is 
being done, whether he knows about it or not.

Just my two cents.

Re: FreedomBox

[Joseph C. Lininger]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello,
I had planned to keep quiet on this issue seeing in how I have never 
used Freedom Box. However, I feel compelled to speak as to their 
marketing stratigy. I too ended up on their sales list without ever 
making so much as an enquirey about their product. I have several blind 
friends who had the same thing happen to them. It would appear that FB 
took the addresses of people from other mailing lists and added these 
addresses to their own marketing list. This is not ok, and in fact, I 
refer to such mailings as spam. It is true that they removed me from 
their list when I asked them to, but they never should have added me in 
the first place.

Equal causes can produce very unequal effects.
Joseph C. Lininger
jbahm@pcdesk.net
Verification: 5eab38a77ac40416e075be8f50607ff7

And so it came to pass that on Sun, 10 Apr 2005, Keith Watson said

> Cheryl,
>
> OK, so I have never had and never will have a use for anything
> that company has to offer. The biggest and most compelling reason
> is because of their marketing tactics. The only way that they
> could have possibly sent email to a particular email address that
> I have is that they got it from a PRIVATE, note the caps, beta
> list that I am on. PRIVATE means private and for them to have
> gotten my email address they had to be on this list as well. This
> goes against the rules of the list and is quite rude. I would not
> expect spam from a PRIVATE beta list and I should never have
> received any, yet I did. This is only one of the reasons that I
> will never use them.
>
> Oh, and if you don't think that they are tracking your surfing
> habits, look up the definition of a proxy. As soon as you log
> onto their service you are logging onto a proxy. This means that
> they can dictate where you go and also track your movements. Matt
> may claim that they are not doing any tracking, but from past
> experience with others in the company I have no doubt that it is
> being done, whether he knows about it or not.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCWcANJ6dqn0mqPbARAmqOAJ4wUu16ZFHZoouRh4wUn0eJ/VWddQCeL8iC
8XiM71kEFhzR1IMC6vN+u3o=
=NWSa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

RE: FreedomBox

[Steve Dawes]

That is vary simple, the present of FreedomBox, Mike Calvo, was, and I think
still a member of a vary famous Screen Reader product. So, Keith's theory is
not far fetched. I to have be inundated with their spam, and have even
called the company to ask them to stop sending me any of their
announcements. They don't listen. I guess the next step to stopping them
from sending me anymore spam is to report their spam to the black listers.
After all, if they aren't willing to listen to a polite request for having a
name removed from their distribution lists, then one has to take the next,
step in preventing unwanted email from coming to them.

So, needless to say, the next time I get any unsolicited email from this
company, I am going to closely consider my options.

Re: FreedomBox

[Matt Campbell]

Hello all,

Kenny, I know which email from Mike Calvo you're referring to.  He did 
talk about being able to get better deals from other businesses, but it 
was clearly in the context of software licensing and providing 
additional services to customers.  There was not a hint that we would 
sell personal information or users' web browsing activities.  And in 
response to Keith, what makes you so sure that a proxy is involved with 
our service?  If we were tracking your web browsing activity, I would be 
the first to know about it.  Remember, I'm currently Serotek's only 
programmer, and their system administrator.

As for speech-dispatcher, the interface seems to be *too* simplistic. 
As far as I know, speech-dispatcher can't send any notifications back to 
the application, which would enable the app to move the cursor during a 
continuous read or play an audio file when the current utterance is 
done.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, we have never required that you buy dial-up access from us.  If 
you already have an Internet service provider, be it dial-up or 
high-speed, you can simply pay $9.95 per month or $99 per year, plus a 
one-time $25 activation fee.  This has been true for years.

Again, please let me know if you have any other questions, comments, or 
concerns.  Also, Mike Calvo would be happy to answer any questions or 
address any concerns in a public, recorded voice chat session, e.g. on a 
Speak Freely reflector, if that would help.
-- 
Matt Campbell
Lead Programmer
Serotek Corporation
www.freedombox.info

Re: FreedomBox

[Keith Watson]

Matt,

First, the fact that a person has to log onto your system in 
order to utilize it clearly tells me that you have the *ability* 
to track your clients movements. That by default gives Kalvo the 
means to practice his past known activities.

Second, twice now you have said that you are the only programmer 
and systems admin for him. But what you have not said is that you 
are the only one who has access to the systems and the 
information on those systems. It would be my guess that he does 
indeed have the access to those systems and thus can do what he 
damn well pleases with or without your knowing it. So unless you 
are the only person that accesses those boxes I doubt that you 
are fully aware of all the activities that go on half a continent 
away from you.

Third, I have never claimed that any of these activities are 
taking place. Just that the ability for them to take place is 
there and from the history of the person I would be as fearful of 
that as I would be in handing a junkie a vial of crack and 
telling him not to use it. How long do you think that it would 
take for the urge to overcome him? Not long I would suppose.

Nuff said.

Re: FreedomBox

[Matt Campbell]

Keith Watson wrote:
> First, the fact that a person has to log onto your system in 
> order to utilize it clearly tells me that you have the *ability* 
> to track your clients movements. That by default gives Kalvo the 
> means to practice his past known activities.
[End of quote.]

What past known activites?  There is no evidence that he has ever 
tracked the activites of others without their permission or knowledge.

Keith continued:
> Second, twice now you have said that you are the only programmer 
> and systems admin for him. But what you have not said is that you 
> are the only one who has access to the systems and the 
> information on those systems. It would be my guess that he does 
> indeed have the access to those systems and thus can do what he 
> damn well pleases with or without your knowing it. So unless you 
> are the only person that accesses those boxes I doubt that you 
> are fully aware of all the activities that go on half a continent 
> away from you.
[End of quote.]

All right, I'll be more specific.  He does have access to our systems' 
root passwords.  However, he doesn't know the first thing about how to 
use Linux, which is what we run on our servers.  Thus, all he can really 
use is the web-based software that I've written for him and other 
Serotek employees.  While users' recently visited sites, bookmarks, and 
cookies are stored on one of our servers so that users have access to 
their information from anywhere, I am the only person who has 
unrestricted access to that information.  Mike Calvo has no more access 
to that information than anyone else.  He also does not have access to 
any logs or reports regarding users' activities on the Web.

Keith continued:
> Third, I have never claimed that any of these activities are 
> taking place.
[End of quote.]

Really?  I quote from your previous message:

 > Matt
 > may claim that they are not doing any tracking, but from past
 > experience with others in the company I have no doubt that it is
 > being done, whether he knows about it or not.
[End of quote.]

Keith concluded:
> from the history of the person I would be as fearful of 
> that as I would be in handing a junkie a vial of crack and 
> telling him not to use it. How long do you think that it would 
> take for the urge to overcome him? Not long I would suppose.
[End of quote.]

Do you realize how offensive that statement is?  You're comparing a 
person who you don't even know, and who has done this community much 
more good than harm (if any harm at all), to a crack head.  Mike Calvo 
is a member of the blind community who, with the help of myself and 
others, has made a positive difference in hundreds of lives through 
FreedomBox.  People who never touched a computer before are enjoying the 
benefits of the Internet thanks to Mike's work.  With FreedomBox 2.0, 
seasoned computer users are enjoying and benefitting from the Internet 
even more.  And FreedomBox has the potential to do good for thousands or 
millions of people.  Over the past four and a half years, Mike has 
devoted his life to FreedomBox, with negligible monetary compensation in 
return so far.  And before that, he put over 400 blind people to work, 
many of which still have those jobs or have progressed in their career; 
this is documented.  The last thing he deserves is such an insult.  As 
one of his best friends and closest colleagues, I am offended too.  If 
you disagree with some of our business practices and can back up yoru 
statements wiht facts, fine.  But don't throw the baby out with the bath 
water, and please don't stoop to personal attacks!
-- 
Matt Campbell
Lead Programmer
Serotek Corporation
www.freedombox.info

Re: FreedomBox

[david poehlman]

This is so far off topic that I hesitate to jump in here,  But I feel 
compelled to make an observation.  I feel from what I have seen on this list 
alone that freedom box is actually getting in the way of people really using 
computers.  It strikes me also that lots of people who are already using 
computers are not rushing to use freedom box.  Even though at the moment, 
the proxie may be doing good work, it has the potential to become big 
brother for whatever reason, and I would not knowingly develop that kind of 
relationship.  It's bad enough that comcast has blockages for certain types 
of activities, but they havve not the capacity to block my web travel at 
least not yet.

-- 
Johnnie Apple Seed
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Campbell" <mattc@freedombox.cc>
To: <Kwatson@smed.yi.org>; "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." 
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: FreedomBox


Keith Watson wrote:
> First, the fact that a person has to log onto your system in
> order to utilize it clearly tells me that you have the *ability*
> to track your clients movements. That by default gives Kalvo the
> means to practice his past known activities.
[End of quote.]

What past known activites?  There is no evidence that he has ever
tracked the activites of others without their permission or knowledge.

Keith continued:
> Second, twice now you have said that you are the only programmer
> and systems admin for him. But what you have not said is that you
> are the only one who has access to the systems and the
> information on those systems. It would be my guess that he does
> indeed have the access to those systems and thus can do what he
> damn well pleases with or without your knowing it. So unless you
> are the only person that accesses those boxes I doubt that you
> are fully aware of all the activities that go on half a continent
> away from you.
[End of quote.]

All right, I'll be more specific.  He does have access to our systems'
root passwords.  However, he doesn't know the first thing about how to
use Linux, which is what we run on our servers.  Thus, all he can really
use is the web-based software that I've written for him and other
Serotek employees.  While users' recently visited sites, bookmarks, and
cookies are stored on one of our servers so that users have access to
their information from anywhere, I am the only person who has
unrestricted access to that information.  Mike Calvo has no more access
to that information than anyone else.  He also does not have access to
any logs or reports regarding users' activities on the Web.

Keith continued:
> Third, I have never claimed that any of these activities are
> taking place.
[End of quote.]

Really?  I quote from your previous message:

 > Matt
 > may claim that they are not doing any tracking, but from past
 > experience with others in the company I have no doubt that it is
 > being done, whether he knows about it or not.
[End of quote.]

Keith concluded:
> from the history of the person I would be as fearful of
> that as I would be in handing a junkie a vial of crack and
> telling him not to use it. How long do you think that it would
> take for the urge to overcome him? Not long I would suppose.
[End of quote.]

Do you realize how offensive that statement is?  You're comparing a
person who you don't even know, and who has done this community much
more good than harm (if any harm at all), to a crack head.  Mike Calvo
is a member of the blind community who, with the help of myself and
others, has made a positive difference in hundreds of lives through
FreedomBox.  People who never touched a computer before are enjoying the
benefits of the Internet thanks to Mike's work.  With FreedomBox 2.0,
seasoned computer users are enjoying and benefitting from the Internet
even more.  And FreedomBox has the potential to do good for thousands or
millions of people.  Over the past four and a half years, Mike has
devoted his life to FreedomBox, with negligible monetary compensation in
return so far.  And before that, he put over 400 blind people to work,
many of which still have those jobs or have progressed in their career;
this is documented.  The last thing he deserves is such an insult.  As
one of his best friends and closest colleagues, I am offended too.  If
you disagree with some of our business practices and can back up yoru
statements wiht facts, fine.  But don't throw the baby out with the bath
water, and please don't stoop to personal attacks!
-- 
Matt Campbell
Lead Programmer
Serotek Corporation
www.freedombox.info

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[Sean McMahon]

I'd also like to point out that as any good business does I'm sure your
statements reguarding the use and collection/distribution of any identifiable or
personal information is clearly updated in a privacy policy which you update?  I
assume you probably send any updates to this policy to your users right?  If it
isn't available in such a policy, then shame on your company for enspiring such
confusion.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Campbell" <mattc@freedombox.cc>
To: <Kwatson@smed.yi.org>; "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: FreedomBox


> Keith Watson wrote:
> > First, the fact that a person has to log onto your system in
> > order to utilize it clearly tells me that you have the *ability*
> > to track your clients movements. That by default gives Kalvo the
> > means to practice his past known activities.
> [End of quote.]
>
> What past known activites?  There is no evidence that he has ever
> tracked the activites of others without their permission or knowledge.
>
> Keith continued:
> > Second, twice now you have said that you are the only programmer
> > and systems admin for him. But what you have not said is that you
> > are the only one who has access to the systems and the
> > information on those systems. It would be my guess that he does
> > indeed have the access to those systems and thus can do what he
> > damn well pleases with or without your knowing it. So unless you
> > are the only person that accesses those boxes I doubt that you
> > are fully aware of all the activities that go on half a continent
> > away from you.
> [End of quote.]
>
> All right, I'll be more specific.  He does have access to our systems'
> root passwords.  However, he doesn't know the first thing about how to
> use Linux, which is what we run on our servers.  Thus, all he can really
> use is the web-based software that I've written for him and other
> Serotek employees.  While users' recently visited sites, bookmarks, and
> cookies are stored on one of our servers so that users have access to
> their information from anywhere, I am the only person who has
> unrestricted access to that information.  Mike Calvo has no more access
> to that information than anyone else.  He also does not have access to
> any logs or reports regarding users' activities on the Web.
>
> Keith continued:
> > Third, I have never claimed that any of these activities are
> > taking place.
> [End of quote.]
>
> Really?  I quote from your previous message:
>
>  > Matt
>  > may claim that they are not doing any tracking, but from past
>  > experience with others in the company I have no doubt that it is
>  > being done, whether he knows about it or not.
> [End of quote.]
>
> Keith concluded:
> > from the history of the person I would be as fearful of
> > that as I would be in handing a junkie a vial of crack and
> > telling him not to use it. How long do you think that it would
> > take for the urge to overcome him? Not long I would suppose.
> [End of quote.]
>
> Do you realize how offensive that statement is?  You're comparing a
> person who you don't even know, and who has done this community much
> more good than harm (if any harm at all), to a crack head.  Mike Calvo
> is a member of the blind community who, with the help of myself and
> others, has made a positive difference in hundreds of lives through
> FreedomBox.  People who never touched a computer before are enjoying the
> benefits of the Internet thanks to Mike's work.  With FreedomBox 2.0,
> seasoned computer users are enjoying and benefitting from the Internet
> even more.  And FreedomBox has the potential to do good for thousands or
> millions of people.  Over the past four and a half years, Mike has
> devoted his life to FreedomBox, with negligible monetary compensation in
> return so far.  And before that, he put over 400 blind people to work,
> many of which still have those jobs or have progressed in their career;
> this is documented.  The last thing he deserves is such an insult.  As
> one of his best friends and closest colleagues, I am offended too.  If
> you disagree with some of our business practices and can back up yoru
> statements wiht facts, fine.  But don't throw the baby out with the bath
> water, and please don't stoop to personal attacks!
> -- 
> Matt Campbell
> Lead Programmer
> Serotek Corporation
> www.freedombox.info
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[Ann K. Parsons]

Hi all,

I suggest, respectfully, that unless you have documented evidence of
wrong doing, you cease and desist from libeling a product or its
creators/maintainers.  It is not a wise thing to speculate like this.
Moreover, it damages people's reputation. 

I don't have any evidence for or against all this hoopla except that I
haven't gotten any more spam than normal since I joined Freedom Box.
I'm not a techie, and I can't make judgments about this kind of
thing.  

However, I would venture to say that since any web site you go to for
shopping, for pleasure and so on does track your activity, what's the
beef here? 

Though I am not a techie, I can speak to the talents of Freedom Box's
head programmer who, when forced to do so, was instrumental in
protecting the security of GrassRoots MOO, and that was even before he
went to college.  If he says there isn't any activity that he knows
about that is tracking you, then I'll believe him.  

C'mon guys, the problem with all this speculation is that it's
probably not true, and if it is, is probably much less harmful than
you think.  What is harmful is spreading unsubstantiated rumors.
Rumors are just that, rumors.  Heck, guys, google tracks you when you
go there, probably.  So do the other search engines.  What you gonna
do, stop searching the net? 

You can get all revved up about this if you want to, but I'd rather
see Freedom Box help those for whom it was designed.  It's a good
product.  It works well.  It shouldn't be plagued by rumors.  If you
don't like it, then don't buy it.  I don't buy grape juice cuz I don't
like it.  I buy orange juice and v8.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: FreedomBox

[Michael Whapples]

As Kenny pointed out most places have a privacy policy, I can't find one on 
the freedombox website. Using your example of google, if you look for it you 
will find a privacy policy for that. The amount of information required to 
sign up for a trial account with freedombox is quite alot, and is personal, 
why should I want to give it out with out knowing how it will be used. With 
out seeing a privacy policy, I may be agreeing that the information 
submitted can be handed on to other companies for advertising purposes. I 
am not saying this how the information is used, but there is nothing that 
tells me how it will be.
Mike
Ann K. Parsons writes:

> Hi all,
> 
> I suggest, respectfully, that unless you have documented evidence of
> wrong doing, you cease and desist from libeling a product or its
> creators/maintainers.  It is not a wise thing to speculate like this.
> Moreover, it damages people's reputation. 
> 
> I don't have any evidence for or against all this hoopla except that I
> haven't gotten any more spam than normal since I joined Freedom Box.
> I'm not a techie, and I can't make judgments about this kind of
> thing.  
> 
> However, I would venture to say that since any web site you go to for
> shopping, for pleasure and so on does track your activity, what's the
> beef here? 
> 
> Though I am not a techie, I can speak to the talents of Freedom Box's
> head programmer who, when forced to do so, was instrumental in
> protecting the security of GrassRoots MOO, and that was even before he
> went to college.  If he says there isn't any activity that he knows
> about that is tracking you, then I'll believe him.  
> 
> C'mon guys, the problem with all this speculation is that it's
> probably not true, and if it is, is probably much less harmful than
> you think.  What is harmful is spreading unsubstantiated rumors.
> Rumors are just that, rumors.  Heck, guys, google tracks you when you
> go there, probably.  So do the other search engines.  What you gonna
> do, stop searching the net? 
> 
> You can get all revved up about this if you want to, but I'd rather
> see Freedom Box help those for whom it was designed.  It's a good
> product.  It works well.  It shouldn't be plagued by rumors.  If you
> don't like it, then don't buy it.  I don't buy grape juice cuz I don't
> like it.  I buy orange juice and v8.  
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> -- 
> 			Ann K. Parsons  

Re: FreedomBox

[Chris Gray]

It's a huge leap from missing a privacy policy on a website to 
gathering or misusing 
information.  To imply that one suggests the other is, at best, a cheap 
shot.

The fact of the matter is that some of the things the Freedombox web 
browser does are very useful, innovative and unique.  The Freedombox 
approach addresses a market segment extremely well.  The access to 
Windows introduced by Freedombox is another significant contribution to 
the technological landscape for blind and visually impaired people 
today.  I'm glad some people are out there making such contributions 
and trying to make a real difference in technology.

Chris

On Mon, 18 Apr 
2005, Michael Whapples wrote:

> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:14:23 +0000
> From: Michael Whapples <mikster4@msn.com>
> Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>     <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: FreedomBox
> 
> As Kenny pointed out most places have a privacy policy, I can't find one on 
> the freedombox website. Using your example of google, if you look for it you 
> will find a privacy policy for that. The amount of information required to 
> sign up for a trial account with freedombox is quite alot, and is personal, 
> why should I want to give it out with out knowing how it will be used. With 
> out seeing a privacy policy, I may be agreeing that the information submitted 
> can be handed on to other companies for advertising purposes. I am not saying 
> this how the information is used, but there is nothing that tells me how it 
> will be.
> Mike
> Ann K. Parsons writes:
>
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I suggest, respectfully, that unless you have documented evidence of
>> wrong doing, you cease and desist from libeling a product or its
>> creators/maintainers.  It is not a wise thing to speculate like this.
>> Moreover, it damages people's reputation. 
>> I don't have any evidence for or against all this hoopla except that I
>> haven't gotten any more spam than normal since I joined Freedom Box.
>> I'm not a techie, and I can't make judgments about this kind of
>> thing. 
>> However, I would venture to say that since any web site you go to for
>> shopping, for pleasure and so on does track your activity, what's the
>> beef here? 
>> Though I am not a techie, I can speak to the talents of Freedom Box's
>> head programmer who, when forced to do so, was instrumental in
>> protecting the security of GrassRoots MOO, and that was even before he
>> went to college.  If he says there isn't any activity that he knows
>> about that is tracking you, then I'll believe him. 
>> C'mon guys, the problem with all this speculation is that it's
>> probably not true, and if it is, is probably much less harmful than
>> you think.  What is harmful is spreading unsubstantiated rumors.
>> Rumors are just that, rumors.  Heck, guys, google tracks you when you
>> go there, probably.  So do the other search engines.  What you gonna
>> do, stop searching the net? 
>> You can get all revved up about this if you want to, but I'd rather
>> see Freedom Box help those for whom it was designed.  It's a good
>> product.  It works well.  It shouldn't be plagued by rumors.  If you
>> don't like it, then don't buy it.  I don't buy grape juice cuz I don't
>> like it.  I buy orange juice and v8. 
>> Ann P.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 			Ann K. Parsons 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 

Chris Gray, Sr. Technical Writer        Symantec Corporation
415-738-2649 voice 
415-348-9636 fax             		San Francisco, CA 94107

Re: FreedomBox

[Michael Whapples]

In no way was I trying to say that mis-use of information actually goes on. 
By saying that there is no privacy policy, I don't know how that information 
will be used. They may have a peice of paper somewhere says that they can 
use submitted information for sending adverts to you, sell activity 
patterns for marketing, etc, and it would not be mis-use because they 
have a policy that says that, but I have not seen it. If that is not 
their policy then why can't I see it before I give my information, then 
I know my information is private, and should anything bad happen I have 
something that gives me rights. Would you give your name, address, 
phone number, e-mail, etc to the next stranger you meet? If you answer 
no, then you should understand my reason to not want to give 
information to a company that does not have a privacy policy that I can 
view.
Mike
Chris Gray writes:

> It's a huge leap from missing a privacy policy on a website to 
> gathering or misusing 
> information.  To imply that one suggests the other is, at best, a cheap 
> shot.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that some of the things the Freedombox web 
> browser does are very useful, innovative and unique.  The Freedombox 
> approach addresses a market segment extremely well.  The access to 
> Windows introduced by Freedombox is another significant contribution to 
> the technological landscape for blind and visually impaired people 
> today.  I'm glad some people are out there making such contributions 
> and trying to make a real difference in technology.
> 
> Chris

Re: FreedomBox

[Ann K. Parsons]

Hi all,

Hmmmmm, good point, Michael.  Haven't visited the main page in a bit.
It might be worth their while to put a policy up.  It may be there,
and you're just not seeing it.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

RE: FreedomBox

[Richard Wells]

Hello list,

Privacy policy statement notwithstanding, I have never received any unwanted
correspondence from Freedom Box in over 13 months of use. The service allows
me to do so many things that I cannot do in Linux otherwise. 

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Ann K. Parsons
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:36 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: FreedomBox

Hi all,

Hmmmmm, good point, Michael.  Haven't visited the main page in a bit.
It might be worth their while to put a policy up.  It may be there, and
you're just not seeing it.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[hank smith]

how is browsing the net with it? do you have any problems with banking 
sites, or anything like that?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Wells" <richwels@bupster.cjb.net>
To: <akp@eznet.net>; "'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'" 
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: FreedomBox


> Hello list,
>
> Privacy policy statement notwithstanding, I have never received any 
> unwanted
> correspondence from Freedom Box in over 13 months of use. The service 
> allows
> me to do so many things that I cannot do in Linux otherwise.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca 
> [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
> On Behalf Of Ann K. Parsons
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:36 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: FreedomBox
>
> Hi all,
>
> Hmmmmm, good point, Michael.  Haven't visited the main page in a bit.
> It might be worth their while to put a policy up.  It may be there, and
> you're just not seeing it.
>
> Ann P.
>
> -- 
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.
> Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: FreedomBox

[Richard Wells]

I have not tried that because we usually go to the Credit Union in person
here. Web browsing is much more pleasant using Freedom Box than with lynx or
links. 

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of hank smith
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 8:16 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: FreedomBox

how is browsing the net with it? do you have any problems with banking
sites, or anything like that?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Wells" <richwels@bupster.cjb.net>
To: <akp@eznet.net>; "'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'" 
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: FreedomBox


> Hello list,
>
> Privacy policy statement notwithstanding, I have never received any 
> unwanted correspondence from Freedom Box in over 13 months of use. The 
> service allows me to do so many things that I cannot do in Linux 
> otherwise.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
> On Behalf Of Ann K. Parsons
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:36 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: FreedomBox
>
> Hi all,
>
> Hmmmmm, good point, Michael.  Haven't visited the main page in a bit.
> It might be worth their while to put a policy up.  It may be there, 
> and you're just not seeing it.
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.
> Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[Lorenzo Taylor]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am currently using a trial version and haven't had any problem with my banking
site.  Two things did come up, however:

I can't use gmail, although I can't even use that properly in Windows.
And I have some problems on my power company's web site with missing continue
and confirm links and such.  And the power company is very unhelpful in the
matter, saying they only support IE and Netscape, even though Mozilla, which
is the browser used by Freedombox, at least according	to my logs when I visit
my own web site, is a Netscape compatible browser IIRC.

Everything else in the world seems to work with no trouble at all.  The 4 or 5
sites I used to need Windows to access have thus far been reduced to 1. 0?  0?
Do I hear 0?  1 going once, ... 1 going twice ...

HTH,
Lorenzo
- -- 
"We decided that we should evaluate the Microsoft offerings first. Once we
realised what a powerful set of tools they were, it became self-evident this was
the right way to go down."

Microsoft: the right way to go down
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCavfXG9IpekrhBfIRAtHqAJ9jrMPt0Ulj6hldX9T+vag0PCotawCgu/x7
IggxmCWhXCJAGKbCpQ67NUo=
=RfU4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

RE: FreedomBox

[jim grimsby]

Hi, just thought I would point out there is a privacy policy on the
site.  I checked it while at my dads using w3 under emacs and it is
there.  
Hth 

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Richard Wells
Sent: 2005-04-23 4:35MD
To: akp@eznet.net; 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'
Subject: RE: FreedomBox


Hello list,

Privacy policy statement notwithstanding, I have never received any
unwanted correspondence from Freedom Box in over 13 months of use. The
service allows me to do so many things that I cannot do in Linux
otherwise. 

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Ann K. Parsons
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:36 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: FreedomBox

Hi all,

Hmmmmm, good point, Michael.  Haven't visited the main page in a bit. It
might be worth their while to put a policy up.  It may be there, and
you're just not seeing it.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 03:28:23PM -0400, Ann K. Parsons wrote:
Heck, guys, google tracks you when you
> go there, probably.  So do the other search engines. 

Actually, they do. I don't remember where I saw this, but google does
supposedly log every search, along with the IP address.

Greg


- -- 
web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)

- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCZCcK7s9z/XlyUyARAga/AKDGfaa0GeRVWW2forUMUPkzBh8p2wCg3cDr
qXKuxwZqtV0pzbQ76v2ImTA=
=dM+h
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

RE: FreedomBox

[Steve Dawes]

Ah, but the difference is that you are not required to provide any personal
information to google before you use their search engine or any of the other
tools that they provide. Tracking an IP address along with every search is
not an invation of privacy when you consider how many ip addresses are
dynamically distributed. An email address often only traces back to the isp
now a days.


Steve

Steve Dawes
Calgary Canada.


-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Gregory Nowak
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:31 PM
To: akp@eznet.net; Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: FreedomBox


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 03:28:23PM -0400, Ann K. Parsons wrote:
Heck, guys, google tracks you when you
> go there, probably.  So do the other search engines.

Actually, they do. I don't remember where I saw this, but google does
supposedly log every search, along with the IP address.

Greg


- --
web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)

- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCZCcK7s9z/XlyUyARAga/AKDGfaa0GeRVWW2forUMUPkzBh8p2wCg3cDr
qXKuxwZqtV0pzbQ76v2ImTA=
=dM+h
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[seth creature]

in regards to a privacy policy, freedombox does have one, I read it.  It's 
at the end of their main page and it's the last link.

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 03:28:23PM -0400, Ann K. Parsons wrote:
> Heck, guys, google tracks you when you
>> go there, probably.  So do the other search engines.
>
> Actually, they do. I don't remember where I saw this, but google does
> supposedly log every search, along with the IP address.
>
> Greg
>
>
> - --
> web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
> gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>
> - --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFCZCcK7s9z/XlyUyARAga/AKDGfaa0GeRVWW2forUMUPkzBh8p2wCg3cDr
> qXKuxwZqtV0pzbQ76v2ImTA=
> =dM+h
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

RE: FreedomBox

[Steve Dawes]

Why isn't the privacy policy available to read before you subscribe to the
service. When filling out the form, a indicator for having read the privacy
policy can be added to the registration form, and then a lot of the
confusion that has been bantered about would be resolved.
I myself will not fill out a registration that is requesting personal
information unless I can see and clearly understand the companies privacy
policy, regardless of who the company is.

This is one of the reasons that I have not even looked at freedombox. Until
the company's privacy policy is available for reading prior to registering,
I refuse to look at the services that they provide. I further more will not
recommend the company to anyone because of the same reasons.

Steve

Steve Dawes
Calgary Canada.


-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Sean McMahon
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:46 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: FreedomBox


I'd also like to point out that as any good business does I'm sure your
statements reguarding the use and collection/distribution of any
identifiable or
personal information is clearly updated in a privacy policy which you
update?  I
assume you probably send any updates to this policy to your users right?  If
it
isn't available in such a policy, then shame on your company for enspiring
such
confusion.

RE: FreedomBox

[Ann K. Parsons]

Hi all,

It is now.  Go to the main page and have a look.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: FreedomBox

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.

On Sun, Apr 10, 2005 at 09:21:14PM -0500, Matt Campbell wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> the first to know about it.  Remember, I'm currently Serotek's only 
> programmer, and their system administrator.
> 

Good.  Then you should be able to finally take me off your list for
good.  Right?  The mail address you're spamming is:

kennyhitt@knology.net


> As for speech-dispatcher, the interface seems to be *too* simplistic. 
> As far as I know, speech-dispatcher can't send any notifications back to 
> the application, which would enable the app to move the cursor during a 
> continuous read or play an audio file when the current utterance is 
> done.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> 

I haven't used those features, but the docs seem to say they are
possible.

> Also, we have never required that you buy dial-up access from us.  If 
> you already have an Internet service provider, be it dial-up or 
> high-speed, you can simply pay $9.95 per month or $99 per year, plus a 
> one-time $25 activation fee.  This has been true for years.
> 

I talked to you on the reflector when I couldn't just sign up for yearly
service, and you told me something like "you are the programmer and that
was a web site problem.  In case you don't remember, the sign up form
would only let me have basic service along with dialup for $200.  I was
using Freedombox to try to sign up at the time.
The form would allow me to pay for more expensive products, but not for
just yearly service.

I think this thread is going no where, so I'll stop responding.  If your
customers are happy, fine.  I'll stick with my current system.

          Kenny

Re: FreedomBox

[Cheryl Homiak]

Just for anybody who wants to sign up and is concerned:
I had no problem signing up for services without dialup. I'm not at all 
questioning that Kenny had a problem, and I don't know whether he signed 
up before or after I did; just stating this to dispel any notion that 
nobody has been able to sign up for anything but more expensive services. 
And it seems to me also that one used to be able to use lynx the cat or 
links the chain (one or both) to sign up as well, but it's been a while so 
I could be mistaken about that.



-- 
Cheryl

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Re: FreedomBox

[Keith Watson]

Matt,

Ah the great pissing contest begins...and ends because this is 
the last I will say on this matter.

You contradict yourself my friend. First you say he has root 
access to the systems and then you say that he has no access to 
them. Which is it? Can't have the cake and not eat it.

As for the junkie analogy, it was only that, an analogy. I could 
have said that it would be like putting someone with a gambling 
addiction in the middle of Vegas with a bank roll and telling 
them not to gamble. I could have said that it was like giving 
candy to a baby and expecting the child not to partake. The 
point is that past experience from his actions, supported by 
others on the list and not just myself, point to the fact that it 
will in all likely hood happen again.

He pays your bills, and you feel the need to defend his actions, 
actions that regardless of how much of a philanthropist you 
claim that he is, have been shown to be otherwise.

Let's just agree to disagree and call it a day.

Keith

Re: FreedomBox

[Michael Whapples]

Hello,
I can't make any comments on whether freedombox does track activities and 
add to the spam problems.
I think it is a great shame that there is no plan to build support for 
festival or flite into the linux version of freedom box. I really dislike 
the dectalk voices and find those harder to understand than festival. Trying 
to include support for speech-dispatcher if possible might be a good 
solution (I don't know whether it would meet the technical requirements or 
not). The comment about using freedombox if it was free with festival as a 
synth, well I wouldn't use dectalk even if it was free, so the price wasn't 
coming into it there.
You can see where the emphasis is in the company, there is not even a 
comment about linux in the information about freedombox on their website 
(not even a mention in listing operating systems, would it be too much to 
just have it say "works with windows 98 or later, or linux"). Due to that, 
if I had found it by searching the internet, I would not even have bothered 
looking further.
From
Michael Whapples
"An optimist is someone who has never had much experience" 

RE: FreedomBox

[jim grimsby]

Hi, 
Well even if speech-dispatcher is not a option eflite standing for emacs
flite should be a option.  It is a emacspeak server quite easy to
install under debien work with emacspeak and yasr.  Considering the fact
that freedom box runs under gnome it should also be able to use
gnome-speech so one of thoughs options should be possible.  This would
also give it access to the cepstral voices.  They sound very nice by the
way.  
Conversation about the ceo of the company are sort of beside the point
here.  I also must note that mat did not respond to any of my original
questions when I posted them to the list a few days ago.  
Hth 

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Michael Whapples
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 4:54 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: FreedomBox


Hello,
I can't make any comments on whether freedombox does track activities
and 
add to the spam problems.
I think it is a great shame that there is no plan to build support for 
festival or flite into the linux version of freedom box. I really
dislike 
the dectalk voices and find those harder to understand than festival.
Trying 
to include support for speech-dispatcher if possible might be a good 
solution (I don't know whether it would meet the technical requirements
or 
not). The comment about using freedombox if it was free with festival as
a 
synth, well I wouldn't use dectalk even if it was free, so the price
wasn't 
coming into it there.
You can see where the emphasis is in the company, there is not even a 
comment about linux in the information about freedombox on their website

(not even a mention in listing operating systems, would it be too much
to 
just have it say "works with windows 98 or later, or linux"). Due to
that, 
if I had found it by searching the internet, I would not even have
bothered 
looking further.
From
Michael Whapples
"An optimist is someone who has never had much experience" 

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Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Cheryl is correct.  I got some mesages which I did not want to receive 
at one point and once I asked one time to be removed from future 
mailings I was removed with no problems.  I have not used Freedombox but 
have not seen any evidence they track your usage, spy on you or sell 
your information.

-- 
-- Raul A. Gallegos - http://www.asmodean.net
-- Public GPG Key - http://asmodean.net/raul-pgp.asc

Re: FreedomBox

[Sean McMahon]

It seems that freedombox should not force the bundling of updates with being
logged on to the network.  You may have users who cannot be logged on to the
freedombox network but wish to receive updates to the product.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul@asmodean.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: FreedomBox


> Cheryl is correct.  I got some mesages which I did not want to receive
> at one point and once I asked one time to be removed from future
> mailings I was removed with no problems.  I have not used Freedombox but
> have not seen any evidence they track your usage, spy on you or sell
> your information.
>
> -- 
> -- Raul A. Gallegos - http://www.asmodean.net
> -- Public GPG Key - http://asmodean.net/raul-pgp.asc
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: FreedomBox

[seth creature]

Hi there:
Just a quick question, I feel that I should know this but do not.  I 
played with freedom box when it was a baby so to speak, and now I have a 
trial period going on, and running the 2.0 with system access.  Does the 
linux binary come with the dectalk software, or do I have to get that 
separately... forgive my ignorance, but you know what they say about the 
question not asked...
Thanks muches...
Cheereo!

Re: FreedomBox

[Matt Campbell]

Hi Seth,

The Linux version of FreedomBox does come with DECtalk Software.  Once 
your trial period is up, you can buy the software, including DECtalk, 
for twenty-five dollars.  If you have any other questions about the 
Linux version of FreedomBox, please subscribe to our linux-port list by 
sending a blank message to "linux-port-subscribe@freedombox.info".  If 
you have other questions about FreedomBox in general, please contact 
FreedomBox support or ask on the FreedomBox Users Forum.  Thanks for 
your interest.
-- 
Matt Campbell
Lead Programmer
Serotek Corporation
www.freedombox.info

Re: FreedomBox

[seth creature]

Thank yee, I'll do that, and on a sort of related note, thanks to your 
looks at linux I learned linux a lot faster then I I thought I would 
have...
Cheereo!

Re: FreedomBox

[nick G]

Oy there Matt.
As someone wo has bought programs in the passed, I understand what you are 
getting at.  I do think, and this is a suggestion mind you, that yyou should 
release the messenger program, free of charge, to both the windows and linux 
comunity.  Doing that may very well be one of the best things your company 
would ever do.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Campbell" <mattc@freedombox.cc>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: FreedomBox


Hello all,

I'd like to respond to some of the recent comments about FreedomBox and
the company behind it.

First, Linux is now one of the available operating systems on the trial
registration form.  We apologize for the inconvenience.

In response to Kenny:  Where on Earth did you get the idea that we sell
personal information or track web browsing activity?  We have never done
anything of that sort, and I find it insulting to suggest that we would.
  As consumers, I and the other people at Serotek hate spyware, just
like everyone else, so why would we spend time developign something that
we knew our users would hate?  We prefer to use our limited resources to
develop innovative products and services that users will enjoy. (Hint:
I'm currently Serotek's only programmer.) So I'd seriously like to know
what made you think that we sell personal information or track your
online activities, because there isn't an ounce of truth there.

We did change our minds about making the browser available free of
charge, but for good reason.  Would you actually use the FreedomBox
browser at no charge, with Festival or Flite, if it was available?  As a
consumer, I wouldn't consider it worthwhile to save a mere twenty-five
dollars to put up with one of those awful text-to-speech engines, for
all or even some of my web browsing.  Considering, as Cheryl pointed
out, that FreedomBox gives you access to sites that aren't otherwise
accessible under Linux, I'd say it's worth the twenty-five bucks.  It's
certainly the most inexpensive adaptive technology product of its kind
that I would consider usable by the average user.  If you want to
continue using Lynx with Speakup, that's fine.  Don't get me wrong;
Speakup is a good product, but we're in the twenty-first century now,
and Lynx is way behind the times by any measure.  Anyway, as a business,
we just didn't think it made sense to spend thousands of dollars worth
of programming time to support one of these undebatably inferior
text-to-speech engines.

As for Lorenzo's suggestion that we're no better than Freedom
Scientific, I find the comparison ludicrous.  As I said before, for
twenty-five dollars, our software is extremely affordable.  For only
$9.95 a month, you get access to a wealth of content and other services,
as well as painless software updates.  And we offer all of this under an
operating system for which Freedom Scientific has done nothing.

In response to Sean, we do understand and respect the culture of the
Linux community.  Yes, FreedomBox is like an AOL for the blind; and just
as AOL has been paying more attention to intermediate and advanced users
in recent years, so are we.  FreedomBox 2.0 may not yet have the
flexibility of some applications that you're used to, but we're working
on it; and as I stated earlier, we do respect your privacy.  Also, as I
hinted earlier, we have taken Linux seriously when other adaptive
technology companies have not.  In the face of opposition from others in
the company, Mike Calvo has personally fought for the development of the
Linux port of FreedomBox.  He has also permitted and even encouraged me
to contribute back to open-source software.  Have we done some things
that free-software purists don't like?  Sure, but we can't please
everyone; and I think we've done more good for the blind Linux community
than most open-source efforts directed at this community in recent
years, including my own.  Is paying a fair price in return for a good
product and service too much to ask?  Even Linus Torvalds uses
proprietary software when he believes it's the best tool for the job, so
I don't think usage and development of proprietary software is contrary
to Linux culture.

If you have any questions, comments, or concerns about the points I've
made here, please feel free to share them on this list.  I want to set
the record straight and clear up any confusion that remains about
FreedomBox and Serotek.  I hope this message has helped to accomplish that.
-- 
Sincerely,
Matt Campbell
Lead Programmer
Serotek Corporation
www.freedombox.info

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RE: FreedomBox

[Dawes, Stephen]

Actually it is not. There has been instances where companies have been
challenged because of their privacy policy, and the company has been
found to be in the wrong. So, it follows, that by not publicly
displaying your privacy policy, that the company is retaining the right
to do what they wish with the collected information. I have also been
told in the past that there are also some legal issues around privacy
policies and how they are to be displayed, in places with privacy
legislation. So, how is this any leap at all? Chris Gray wrote, "To
imply that one 
suggests the other is, at best, a cheap shot." No Chris, This is simply
exposing how the lack of a publicly accessible policy can be, and often
is, exploited for business gains. By not publishing a privacy policy, it
is perceived that the company is hiding something, or is going to use
the personal information they have collected for their own gains. In
addition, by hiding the privacy policy, the company is not being
up-front with their existing and potential cliental. 

Steve Dawes
Phone: (403) 268-5527
Email: SDawes@calgary.ca
 
 

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca 
> [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Chris Gray
> Sent: 2005 April 18 3:22 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: FreedomBox
> 
> It's a huge leap from missing a privacy policy on a website 
> to gathering or misusing information.  To imply that one 
> suggests the other is, at best, a cheap shot.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that some of the things the 
> Freedombox web browser does are very useful, innovative and 
> unique.  The Freedombox approach addresses a market segment 
> extremely well.  The access to Windows introduced by 
> Freedombox is another significant contribution to the 
> technological landscape for blind and visually impaired 
> people today.  I'm glad some people are out there making such 
> contributions and trying to make a real difference in technology.
> 
> Chris
>