Definitely unslung

Definitely unslung

[Georgina Joyce]

Hi

I wondered if anyone else was playing with any of the single board computers?  I'd really like to play with one.  Having obtained a Linksys NSLU2 and installed debian on it, I'm impressed.  The NSLU2, known as the slug is quite small and with a 2 Gb pen drive, I've got a nice little system.  I've observed the kernel config and see that they've enabled sound support. So it would be possible to speak in some way.  As it is, I have several jobs for it on our network, so no more mods on this one.  But I'm still looking for a way of building my own Linux portable PC that I can use as a mp3 player if I choose, a note taker, or diary manager.  While the slug has 2 USB ports and a Ethernet connection I really need to be able to add further boards such as Bluetooth and wireless B/G.  So if anyone else is meddling in such areas please let me know.

Thanks


Gena

Amateur Call: M 0 E B P

VOIP / IM: gena1959uk

Re: Definitely unslung

[C.M. Brannon]

"Georgina Joyce" <gena-j@bulldoghome.com> writes:

> no more mods on this one.  But I'm still looking for a way of
> building my own Linux portable PC that I can use as a mp3 player if
> I choose, a note taker, or diary manager.  While the slug has 2 USB
> ports and a Ethernet connection I really need to be able to add
> further boards such as Bluetooth and wireless B/G.  So if anyone
> else is meddling in such areas please let me know.

Hi,
I've been hoping for an affordable portable Linux system for some
time, especially if it has wireless networking and ethernet.  I hate
lugging a laptop; the dead weight of a screen is especially irksome.
PDAs with speech are overpriced.  Most seem to run Windows, with one
exception (the Pappenmeier device).

There's a group of people who are trying to turn a Linksys router into
a talking portable.  See www.louderlinux.net.  I wish them luck.

Does your "slug" device use an x86 processor?  That would make it
especially attractive.

-- Chris

Re: Definitely unslung

[Kerry Hoath]

Those devices use an ARM core.
ARM little endian if my memory serves.
x86 stuff isn't power efficient even in terms of things such as the centrino 
or pentium m, you end up running a laptop on 80 watts of juce give or take 
some. Now if we could get some of those olpc.org machines and put speakup in 
that kernel that would be nice indeed.

Regards, Kerry.

Re: Definitely unslung

[Doug Sutherland]

I have spent many many hours analyzing the x86 vs ARM alternative
for embedded boards. The tradeoff is quite large in terms of ease of
use and application portability in favor for x86, but yes much higher
power requirements. If you want to run on battery power for long 
extended periods then ARM makes sense, but then you're talking 
about a whole different class of applications. If you want portable 
but mostly plugged in then a 200-300 Mhz PC/104 x86 board is 
very flexible. I've given up on x86 for this kind of thing but then 
I want something that runs all day on batteries. So as with most 
tech decisions, the answer depends on the requirements. 
  -- Doug

Re: Definitely unslung

[Buddy Brannan]

On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:54:40PM -0500, C.M. Brannon wrote:
> PDAs with speech are overpriced.  Most seem to run Windows, with one
> exception (the Pappenmeier device).

Two exceptions. You forgot about Icon:
http://www.levelstar.com

Except there really is only one, as Elba apparently isn't around anymore?


-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
http://www.powermall.us
>From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking 
easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net

Re: Definitely unslung

[Kerry Hoath]

And you can't get an Icon unless you are in the states or Canada nles 
something's changed that I don't know about?
Regards, Kerry.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy@brannan.name>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: Definitely unslung


> On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:54:40PM -0500, C.M. Brannon wrote:
>> PDAs with speech are overpriced.  Most seem to run Windows, with one
>> exception (the Pappenmeier device).
>
> Two exceptions. You forgot about Icon:
> http://www.levelstar.com
>
> Except there really is only one, as Elba apparently isn't around anymore?
>
>
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
> Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
> Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
> http://www.powermall.us
> From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking
> easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Definitely unslung

[Travis Siegel]

Likely, and this is exactly the thing I've been complaining about for  
years.
But, if you *really* want an icon, I'd be happy to assist with the  
purchasing/mailing of the thing.
(though I myself would buy one if I could find out if I can run my  
own apps on it or not)
Can't seem to find out.
Their site isn't compatible with safari (the mac browser)


On Jun 4, 2007, at 9:23 PM, Kerry Hoath wrote:

> And you can't get an Icon unless you are in the states or Canada nles
> something's changed that I don't know about?
> Regards, Kerry.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy@brannan.name>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."  
> <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Definitely unslung
>
>
>> On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:54:40PM -0500, C.M. Brannon wrote:
>>> PDAs with speech are overpriced.  Most seem to run Windows, with one
>>> exception (the Pappenmeier device).
>>
>> Two exceptions. You forgot about Icon:
>> http://www.levelstar.com
>>
>> Except there really is only one, as Elba apparently isn't around  
>> anymore?
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
>> Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
>> Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
>> http://www.powermall.us
>> From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking
>> easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Definitely unslung

[Buddy Brannan]

Levelstar's site isn't Safari-compatible? I find this difficult to
fathom. It works in lynx, and by gosh...if lynx will render it, I
can't see why anything else wouldn't. 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
http://www.powermall.us
>From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking 
easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net

Re: Definitely unslung

[David Poehlman]

it works in safari, it just takes a lot of jiggling.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy@brannan.name>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Definitely unslung


Levelstar's site isn't Safari-compatible? I find this difficult to
fathom. It works in lynx, and by gosh...if lynx will render it, I
can't see why anything else wouldn't. 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
http://www.powermall.us
>From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking 
easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Definitely unslung

[Buddy Brannan]

I'd know if I had a more better Mac. My poor ol' 500 MHz G3 just
wasn't doing the job so well anymore...so now I have to get me a new
Mac. (I want a Macbook!) 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
http://www.powermall.us
>From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking 
easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net

Re: Definitely unslung

[David Poehlman]

My g4 had the same problem so I am now running core2 duo 2.16ghz

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy@brannan.name>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Definitely unslung


I'd know if I had a more better Mac. My poor ol' 500 MHz G3 just
wasn't doing the job so well anymore...so now I have to get me a new
Mac. (I want a Macbook!) 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
http://www.powermall.us
>From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking 
easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Definitely unslung

[Travis Siegel]

Yay macbook.
I have one of those.  Great piece of equipment that.
And having an external firewire drive allows me to have plenty of  
storage, so that when I boot to xp, it can't hog all my main hd space.
*grin*



On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:10 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> I'd know if I had a more better Mac. My poor ol' 500 MHz G3 just
> wasn't doing the job so well anymore...so now I have to get me a new
> Mac. (I want a Macbook!)
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
> Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
> Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
> http://www.powermall.us
>> From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking
> easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Definitely unslung

[Alex Snow]

Kind of lost interest when they went intel
On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 
10:28:24PM -0500, Travis Siegel wrote:
> Yay macbook.
> I have one of those.  Great piece of equipment that.
> And having an external firewire drive allows me to have plenty of  
> storage, so that when I boot to xp, it can't hog all my main hd space.
> *grin*
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:10 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> 
> > I'd know if I had a more better Mac. My poor ol' 500 MHz G3 just
> > wasn't doing the job so well anymore...so now I have to get me a new
> > Mac. (I want a Macbook!)
> > -- 
> > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
> > Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
> > Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
> > http://www.powermall.us
> >> From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking
> > easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Linux: the operating system with a CLUE... Command Line User Environment.
	-- seen in a posting in comp.software.testing

Re: Definitely unslung

[Doug Smith]

I might be a little off for inserting myself into your conversation,
but I just have a hardware question.  My understanding of the
computer, ㄞn any of its forms ends with the software, so I just
thought I would learn.  

I just bought this intel, pentium 4 a few weeks ago, and I have not
had a lick of trouble out of it.  What is the problem with intel, so
that I might watch it and be careful to try to avoid it on this one.  

I have never worked with one of those sub-laptop machines?  What are
they like?  How much memory do they have? How hard are they to port
Linux to?  Do they really work well? 

This laptop is really good for me .  It has all the hardware I need.
It seems to run Linux with ㄢ\no problem at all.  

I just want to make one recommendation to anyone interested in
purchasing a new machine, just be sure yyou test it really well with
the distribution you want to use.  

This is one other reason to use grml or any of the live cd distros.
You can just get hold of the machine, either on the shelf at the
store, or wherever you go to pick it up, put in the diѕk, hit the
starter and see if it is going to come up talking.  

This was part of my decision to get this one, not to mention that it
is a laptop, and I have developed a real interest in them since they
have started making them better.  

Now, I wonder about this situation.  Whoever it was on here who has a
mac book, what are you using for speech?  Do you use Linux, since the
machine has an intel chip, or do you use something on the mac-osx
system?  

well, I'll get out of here, and let you experts discuss more relevant
matters.  Thanks for the information.  



Sincerely:




-- 
Doug Smith: C.S.F.C.
Computer Scientist For CHRIST

Re: Definitely unslung

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

- From what I remember in this thread, the only problem with x86 is that
it's power-hungry, and isn't as suitable for small battery-powered
systems as something from another architecture. You don't need to
worry about anything cpu-specific with your laptop.

Greg



On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 03:54:06PM -0400, Doug Smith wrote:
> I might be a little off for inserting myself into your conversation,
> but I just have a hardware question.  My understanding of the
> computer, ???n any of its forms ends with the software, so I just
> thought I would learn.  
> 
> I just bought this intel, pentium 4 a few weeks ago, and I have not
> had a lick of trouble out of it.  What is the problem with intel, so
> that I might watch it and be careful to try to avoid it on this one.  
> 
> I have never worked with one of those sub-laptop machines?  What are
> they like?  How much memory do they have? How hard are they to port
> Linux to?  Do they really work well? 
> 
> This laptop is really good for me .  It has all the hardware I need.
> It seems to run Linux with ???\no problem at all.  
> 
> I just want to make one recommendation to anyone interested in
> purchasing a new machine, just be sure yyou test it really well with
> the distribution you want to use.  
> 
> This is one other reason to use grml or any of the live cd distros.
> You can just get hold of the machine, either on the shelf at the
> store, or wherever you go to pick it up, put in the di??k, hit the
> starter and see if it is going to come up talking.  
> 
> This was part of my decision to get this one, not to mention that it
> is a laptop, and I have developed a real interest in them since they
> have started making them better.  
> 
> Now, I wonder about this situation.  Whoever it was on here who has a
> mac book, what are you using for speech?  Do you use Linux, since the
> machine has an intel chip, or do you use something on the mac-osx
> system?  
> 
> well, I'll get out of here, and let you experts discuss more relevant
> matters.  Thanks for the information.  
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Doug Smith: C.S.F.C.
> Computer Scientist For CHRIST
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
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Re: Definitely unslung

[Travis Siegel]

Doug.
The osx operating system has a screen reader built-in.  It's called  
voice over, and for the most part, it works fairly well.
It has it's quirks, but what doesn't.
Any OSX version 10.4 (that's tiger) or later will work with voice  
over, so you're able to basically sit down and use *any* mac that is  
running tiger.
And, that's the main benefit here.
You buy the computer, the os comes with it, and you need spend  
nothing extra to make it accessible to a blind user.
That more than anything else is why I'm so drawn to the macs, though  
the longer I use them, the  more I find to recomend them.
I've had my current machine only about 6 months, but before that I  
had one since only a few months after osx tiger came out.  It came  
out in April (end of april) and I bought my minimac in August.  That  
was nearly two years ago.
That mini went to my son, and I got another mini, and a macbook (the  
mac laptop)
They're both nice machines.

Re: Definitely unslung

[Doug Smith]

That's a great idea.  I have a friend who has a mac, and I might just
have to try this if she ever comes back out here and brings her mac
laptop.  Does the synthesizer sound pretty good?  I use espeak, so
that's what I am comparing it to.



Thanks for the info.  




-- 
Doug Smith: C.S.F.C.
Computer Scientist For CHRIST

Re: Definitely unslung

[Travis Siegel]

There's all kinds of voices.
I use fred, because it's the closest to what I'm used to.
However, bruce isn't bad, and if you're up for female voices, vicky  
isn't bad, though victoria bothers me.  She always sounds like she's  
trying to seduce you with the way she talks.
Drives me nuts.
There's some rather unique voices too. (ones I'd use for games, but  
not for normal usage) like bad news, bubles and the one that sounds  
deranged.


On Jun 6, 2007, at 7:51 PM, Doug Smith wrote:

> That's a great idea.  I have a friend who has a mac, and I might just
> have to try this if she ever comes back out here and brings her mac
> laptop.  Does the synthesizer sound pretty good?  I use espeak, so
> that's what I am comparing it to.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Doug Smith: C.S.F.C.
> Computer Scientist For CHRIST
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Definitely unslung

[David Poehlman]

I personally prefer akapella voices for the Mac.  they are superior even to 
the ones available for windblows.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Travis Siegel" <tsiegel@softcon.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: Definitely unslung


There's all kinds of voices.
I use fred, because it's the closest to what I'm used to.
However, bruce isn't bad, and if you're up for female voices, vicky
isn't bad, though victoria bothers me.  She always sounds like she's
trying to seduce you with the way she talks.
Drives me nuts.
There's some rather unique voices too. (ones I'd use for games, but
not for normal usage) like bad news, bubles and the one that sounds
deranged.


On Jun 6, 2007, at 7:51 PM, Doug Smith wrote:

> That's a great idea.  I have a friend who has a mac, and I might just
> have to try this if she ever comes back out here and brings her mac
> laptop.  Does the synthesizer sound pretty good?  I use espeak, so
> that's what I am comparing it to.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Doug Smith: C.S.F.C.
> Computer Scientist For CHRIST
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Definitely unslung

[Doug Sutherland]

There is nothing wrong with Intel. The discussion was comparing
x86 compatible with ARM, two different animals that serve two
different purposes. The x86 architecture is CISC and has more 
instructions and generally many more transistors and higher clock
speed, more RAM, more peripherals, and requires a lot of power
relative to ARM which uses RISC, less instructions, simpler bus
architectures, lower clock speed, usually much less transitors
and therefor much lower power and less heat generated.

The x86 architecture is actually preferrable if you can deal with
the power and heat requirements, especially for the application
compatibility reasons. Linux on ARM works great but you can't
expect drivers, and therefore many applications to just work.
At minimal they need to be compiled, and in many cases they 
will not work without re-writing drivers. There is no ISA or PCI
bus on ARM, you have ABI or EABI or some proprietary bus
depending on manufacturer. Most phones use ARM processor
in fact ARM owns that whole space. ARM is desireable for 
small portable devices, but in the sub-notebook category it 
still makes sense to use x86.

I am working with ARM specifically for the low power and 
low heat benefits, but as I said it's a completely different class
of applications. Even if you're not dealing with graphics like
x-windows, there is little source compatibility, except where
no hardware specific drivers are involved. There is no such
thing as BIOS on ARM, most systems boot from a kernel
loaded onto flash with embedded file system and scaled 
down versions of standard tools for example busybox. 
There is lots to learn and more work to do when developing
software, setting up a cross platform development toolchain,
often JTAG is required to flash the kernel, you're generally 
much more concerned about memory limitations and other
implications of using a smaller scale architecture.      

Also, Intel is a brand name, they made StrongARM which
evolved to X-Scale, also RISC and uses the original ARM 
as core with Intel specific extensions. So using the name 
Intel is only a brand, the discussion was x86 versus ARM,
in general x86 is preferrable for anything larger than PDA,
ARM for PDA and smaller. 

  -- Doug

Re: Definitely unslung

[Doug Smith]

Thanks.  I was just wondering.  It is really interesting, but, as I
said earlier, I do not understand anything about hardware.  I know
what power is, I know what heat is, and now, I understand why the
battery on here will not last much longer than a couple of hours, even
if it is a lithium/ion battery.  I don'ث really know what kind it is,
but you answered my question.  



Thank you. 




-- 
Doug Smith: C.S.F.C.
Computer Scientist For CHRIST

Re: Definitely unslung

[Doug Sutherland]

The sad truth is that the best technology doesn't win, this has 
been proven over and over. Truth is the x86 architecture is 
an ugly beast and getting uglier, but the economies of scale
are huge and prior investment in development is what keeps 
it alive. Surely that is precisely why Apple switched to Intel,
the PowerPC is actually superior, so is SPARC and ARM.
Beta was better than VHS video. What isn't better than 
Windoze? Why am I running it right now? Only because 
there are still some things I can't do on linux yet. OS/2 was 
light years ahead of Windows and even RAN windows apps. 
OSX has better prospects (it's based on BSD unix!), and I 
actually think Steve Jobs made the right decision ditching 
PowerPC because Intel compatible is a dime a dozen.  

The iPhone will use ARM ... like almosy anyPhone in the
forseeable future. Perhaps this an example where better 
tech does win. There are more ARM processors running 
than Pentiums right now, just on smaller devices. The wild
thing is that ARM the company does NOT make silicon.
They sell IP ... intellectual property. They have hundreds 
of licensees of ARM IP. You can choose from well over 
a hundred different ARM processors just from Digikey 
alone. This is one reason to be interested in ARM and do
some work with it, there may come a day when ARM 
will actually bring the death of the ugly x86. Intel will have
to design something new or jump on that same bandwagon.
So will AMD. What IBM will do is anybody's guess, same
with Sun, executives at all three are surely squirming right
now.
  
  -- Doug

PS. Then there's the iRack LOL
http://www.glumbert.com/media/irack
  

Re: Definitely unslung

[Doug Sutherland]

I forgot to mention PowerPC. Although well known for Apple
it's almost dead in the water in that space, however it will still
hold part of the embedded space, smaller PPC processors 
are also RISC and similar to ARM although ARM is taking 
over that space rapidly and I wouldn't be surprised if PPC 
became a thing of the past. On smaller PPC system you have
all the same problems like in development on ARM if not 
more challenging. On larger systems, who will use them if 
Apple doesn't? Not many. IBM may try to push PPC into
new spaces but I don't think they will get very far.

  -- Doug

Re: Definitely unslung

[Travis Siegel]

Actually, the switch to intel wasn't all that bad of a plan.
The ppc line of processors was running out of upgradability, and the  
intel still has a lot of life in them.  Thus, the switch was an  
attempt to remain  competative in the general market.
With the added bonus that you can now run windows on your mac (if you  
so choose to ruin such a good machine)
That's the draw for most, a stable os that still allows execution of  
all your legacy software just in case you absolutely can't do without  
it.
Personally, I have booted into xp roughly 3 times in the last year,  
so for me, the xp thing was only a nice to have, but definitely not a  
necessity.

However, the conversion from ppc to intel went rather smoothly  
considering it was an entire os that got ported over (I know, linux  
is on several platforms and it works just fine) Well, now apple has  
proved it can be done with a commercial os as well.




On Jun 5, 2007, at 6:49 PM, Alex Snow wrote:

> Kind of lost interest when they went intel

Re: Definitely unslung

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I seem to recall reading or hearing somewhere that Apple is in the
process of porting macos to the pc, and that should supposedly be
available in 2 years.

Greg


On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 06:33:40PM -0500, Travis Siegel wrote:
> Actually, the switch to intel wasn't all that bad of a plan.
> The ppc line of processors was running out of upgradability, and the  
> intel still has a lot of life in them.  Thus, the switch was an  
> attempt to remain  competative in the general market.
> With the added bonus that you can now run windows on your mac (if you  
> so choose to ruin such a good machine)
> That's the draw for most, a stable os that still allows execution of  
> all your legacy software just in case you absolutely can't do without  
> it.
> Personally, I have booted into xp roughly 3 times in the last year,  
> so for me, the xp thing was only a nice to have, but definitely not a  
> necessity.
> 
> However, the conversion from ppc to intel went rather smoothly  
> considering it was an entire os that got ported over (I know, linux  
> is on several platforms and it works just fine) Well, now apple has  
> proved it can be done with a commercial os as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 5, 2007, at 6:49 PM, Alex Snow wrote:
> 
> > Kind of lost interest when they went intel
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)

- --
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFGZ0Wm7s9z/XlyUyARArWxAJ47XTulKuWVw84ZChQYgYmD39cOsACeNAzb
tsM4LLjnzhY1jjT9+Ekr5FY=
=xxJR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: Definitely unslung

[Travis Siegel]

Actually, with a hack or two and some (rather specific) hardware, you  
can already run mac osx on a pc.
The reason it takes particular hardware is because of the drivers  
included with the os.
No need to make drivers for other hardware when you generally roll  
your own.
However, folks are already running osx on pc machines.
It can be done.
The hacks are mostly for  removing the checks performed to ensure  
apple software, and the reliance on apple particular firmware.


On Jun 6, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I seem to recall reading or hearing somewhere that Apple is in the
> process of porting macos to the pc, and that should supposedly be
> available in 2 years.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 06:33:40PM -0500, Travis Siegel wrote:
>> Actually, the switch to intel wasn't all that bad of a plan.
>> The ppc line of processors was running out of upgradability, and the
>> intel still has a lot of life in them.  Thus, the switch was an
>> attempt to remain  competative in the general market.
>> With the added bonus that you can now run windows on your mac (if you
>> so choose to ruin such a good machine)
>> That's the draw for most, a stable os that still allows execution of
>> all your legacy software just in case you absolutely can't do without
>> it.
>> Personally, I have booted into xp roughly 3 times in the last year,
>> so for me, the xp thing was only a nice to have, but definitely not a
>> necessity.
>>
>> However, the conversion from ppc to intel went rather smoothly
>> considering it was an entire os that got ported over (I know, linux
>> is on several platforms and it works just fine) Well, now apple has
>> proved it can be done with a commercial os as well.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2007, at 6:49 PM, Alex Snow wrote:
>>
>>> Kind of lost interest when they went intel
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> - --
> web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
> gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>
> - --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFGZ0Wm7s9z/XlyUyARArWxAJ47XTulKuWVw84ZChQYgYmD39cOsACeNAzb
> tsM4LLjnzhY1jjT9+Ekr5FY=
> =xxJR
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Definitely unslung

[Luke Yelavich]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 09:33:40AM EST, Travis Siegel wrote:
> Actually, the switch to intel wasn't all that bad of a plan.

No it wasn't, but I am no longer as interested in macs as I was when 
they were PowerPC. I really only like OS X for the unix side of things, 
and the relative ease in porting to it. If I wasn't planning on working 
on future projects that had OS X ports, I would even be considering 
getting an Intel mac in the future.
- -- 
Luke Yelavich
GPG key: 0xD06320CE 
	 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt)
Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com
Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au
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Tye51438HrUDhgsspcaQlvA=
=+aDG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: Definitely unslung

[Alex Snow]

Well Darwin was running on intel well before the switch happened, so I 
guess that helped them a bit.
On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 06:33:40PM -0500, 
Travis Siegel wrote:
> Actually, the switch to intel wasn't all that bad of a plan.
> The ppc line of processors was running out of upgradability, and the  
> intel still has a lot of life in them.  Thus, the switch was an  
> attempt to remain  competative in the general market.
> With the added bonus that you can now run windows on your mac (if you  
> so choose to ruin such a good machine)
> That's the draw for most, a stable os that still allows execution of  
> all your legacy software just in case you absolutely can't do without  
> it.
> Personally, I have booted into xp roughly 3 times in the last year,  
> so for me, the xp thing was only a nice to have, but definitely not a  
> necessity.
> 
> However, the conversion from ppc to intel went rather smoothly  
> considering it was an entire os that got ported over (I know, linux  
> is on several platforms and it works just fine) Well, now apple has  
> proved it can be done with a commercial os as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 5, 2007, at 6:49 PM, Alex Snow wrote:
> 
> > Kind of lost interest when they went intel
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Linux: the operating system with a CLUE... Command Line User Environment.
	-- seen in a posting in comp.software.testing

Re: Definitely unslung

[Travis Siegel]

I don't remember the problem, I'll have to go look again to refresh  
my memory.  I think the base site worked, but things that were  
supposedly features didn't.
I'll go look again and report back.


On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:02 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> Levelstar's site isn't Safari-compatible? I find this difficult to
> fathom. It works in lynx, and by gosh...if lynx will render it, I
> can't see why anything else wouldn't.
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
> Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
> Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
> http://www.powermall.us
>> From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking
> easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Definitely unslung

[David Poehlman]

Hi Travis,

have you looked at:
http://www.tech.aph.org
to see if you can find the answers you need there?  I don't remember what 
flavor they are using, but know it's been mentioned on the list.  Try:
support@levelstar.com
for questions.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Travis Siegel" <tsiegel@softcon.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: Definitely unslung


Likely, and this is exactly the thing I've been complaining about for
years.
But, if you *really* want an icon, I'd be happy to assist with the
purchasing/mailing of the thing.
(though I myself would buy one if I could find out if I can run my
own apps on it or not)
Can't seem to find out.
Their site isn't compatible with safari (the mac browser)


On Jun 4, 2007, at 9:23 PM, Kerry Hoath wrote:

> And you can't get an Icon unless you are in the states or Canada nles
> something's changed that I don't know about?
> Regards, Kerry.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy@brannan.name>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
> <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Definitely unslung
>
>
>> On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:54:40PM -0500, C.M. Brannon wrote:
>>> PDAs with speech are overpriced.  Most seem to run Windows, with one
>>> exception (the Pappenmeier device).
>>
>> Two exceptions. You forgot about Icon:
>> http://www.levelstar.com
>>
>> Except there really is only one, as Elba apparently isn't around
>> anymore?
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
>> Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
>> Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
>> http://www.powermall.us
>> From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking
>> easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Definitely unslung

[David Poehlman]

what's the papenmeir device?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy@brannan.name>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: Definitely unslung


On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:54:40PM -0500, C.M. Brannon wrote:
> PDAs with speech are overpriced.  Most seem to run Windows, with one
> exception (the Pappenmeier device).

Two exceptions. You forgot about Icon:
http://www.levelstar.com

Except there really is only one, as Elba apparently isn't around anymore?


-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
http://www.powermall.us
>From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking 
easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Definitely unslung

[Alex Snow]

The Elba.  Definitely not worth getting imho (if you even can still 
get them).  It was a good idea, but the device/its software just 
weren't designed all that well, and support, at least here in the 
states, is almost nonexistant.
On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 11:01:51PM -0400, 
David Poehlman wrote:
> what's the papenmeir device?
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy@brannan.name>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 9:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Definitely unslung
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:54:40PM -0500, C.M. Brannon wrote:
> > PDAs with speech are overpriced.  Most seem to run Windows, with one
> > exception (the Pappenmeier device).
> 
> Two exceptions. You forgot about Icon:
> http://www.levelstar.com
> 
> Except there really is only one, as Elba apparently isn't around anymore?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
> Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
> Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
> http://www.powermall.us
> >From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking 
> easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is a
fundamental error.  Be thankful you are not my student.  You would not get a
high grade for such a design :-)
	-- Andrew Tanenbaum to Linus Torvalds

RE: Definitely unslung

[Georgina Joyce]

Hi

We in the UK, don't have that privilege.  It is also a little more expensive than I'd expected.  A laptop is considerably cheaper.

Regards

Gena

Amateur Call: M 0 E B P

VOIP / IM: gena1959uk



-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:39 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Definitely unslung


On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:54:40PM -0500, C.M. Brannon wrote:
> PDAs with speech are overpriced.  Most seem to run Windows, with one
> exception (the Pappenmeier device).

Two exceptions. You forgot about Icon:
http://www.levelstar.com

Except there really is only one, as Elba apparently isn't around anymore?


-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
http://www.powermall.us
>From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking 
easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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Re: Definitely unslung

[Travis Siegel]

Hey.
There's an ebook reader that we're working on getting produced.  It  
originated at baens bar (http://www.baen.com)

with folks complaining they couldn't find one that they liked.
Well, they've found one, and it'll be running linux.  I've inserted  
into the discussions that speakup on an ebook reader would be an  
excellent thing.
They agree.
Test units aren't out yet, but once they arrive, we're going to work  
to try to get speakup working on them.
Final selling price is supposed to be around $350.
They'll  read ebooks, play mp3 files, and run basic linux software,  
which means you can install pretty much anything you like on them.
There's already talk about turning them into pda-type devices in  
addition to an ebook reader.
Perhaps that'll meet your needs.
Once it's out, 350 bucks will get *anyone* a pda that *can* talk if  
so desired.
Can't beat that.

Re: Definitely unslung

[Buddy Brannan]

On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 09:49:54PM -0500, Travis Siegel wrote:
> Hey.
> There's an ebook reader that we're working on getting produced.

Kick ass! Think I'll hold off and wait and not get a Bookport II :) 

So, what, will it have Espeak in, or some other speech engine? 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
http://www.powermall.us
>From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking 
easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net

Re: Definitely unslung

[Travis Siegel]

Well, the plan is to port speakup to this evice.
Demo units keep getting delayed from the manufacturer though, so  
there's been no work done yet to test to see if speakup can be put on  
the units or not.
I don't know if I'll manage the funds to purchase a demo unit  
(they're $350) but I'm hoping to sell my house in Delaware in the  
next couple months, and I was planning to purchase a couple units  
from those  funds.
That way, I can keep one, and if necessary send one to Mr. Kirk for  
assistance in the porting process.
Now, whether that'll happen or not I don't know, but Derrek (the guy  
running the current show) is willing and even eager to see speakup  
working on the devices, so it's possible he'll help out if possible.
I of course don't know that for sure, mere speculation on my part,  
but I get the impression he wants this to work for as many as possible.
Plus, how many mainstream devices can claim accessibility for the  
blind out of the box?
Especially a device of this nature.
I told him that if the $350 price tag sticks, he can expect to sell  
quite a few units if speakup works on them out of the box.
I just *know* the blind community would love to have a pda that costs  
the same for us as it does for everyone else.


On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:01 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 09:49:54PM -0500, Travis Siegel wrote:
>> Hey.
>> There's an ebook reader that we're working on getting produced.
>
> Kick ass! Think I'll hold off and wait and not get a Bookport II :)
>
> So, what, will it have Espeak in, or some other speech engine?
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
> Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
> Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
> http://www.powermall.us
>> From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking
> easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Definitely unslung

[Buddy Brannan]

Well--it'd have to be Speakup+speech dispatcher+speech engine (flite
or espeak are small and free, DECTalk is small and not free).  Well,
I'll sure be interested to watch this! 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: buddy@brannan.name or phone 888-75-BUDDY
Get a free online mall and earn on 1000 stores:
http://www.powermall.us
>From Kitchen Disaster to Culinary Master, make meals and baking 
easier and faster: http://www.tastyshop.net

Re: Definitely unslung

[Kirk Reiser]

I'll just answer a couple questions about the Levelstar Icon that I
know the answers to.  Larry may jump in and answer others. 

Yes you can run other applications on the Icon.  Most all of it's
current facilities are written in python but it comes with speakup and
you can drop into a console and run whatever you like.  It is using a
common embedded packaging system called open embedded.  The synth it
uses is via voice or FlexTalk so it is proprietary but somebody could
port espeak or something else to it if they liked.

The python code is compiled so it is also proprietary but there are
python decompilers available if somebody with the experience wanted to
take it apart to get the source.  I haven't had the time to devote to
it as much as I'd like to.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

RE: Definitely unslung

[Georgina Joyce]

Hi

I can't get on the site to read about them.  

Gena

Amateur Call: M 0 E B P

VOIP / IM: gena1959uk



-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 3:50 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Definitely unslung


Hey.
There's an ebook reader that we're working on getting produced.  It  
originated at baens bar (http://www.baen.com)

with folks complaining they couldn't find one that they liked.
Well, they've found one, and it'll be running linux.  I've inserted  
into the discussions that speakup on an ebook reader would be an  
excellent thing.
They agree.
Test units aren't out yet, but once they arrive, we're going to work  
to try to get speakup working on them.
Final selling price is supposed to be around $350.
They'll  read ebooks, play mp3 files, and run basic linux software,  
which means you can install pretty much anything you like on them.
There's already talk about turning them into pda-type devices in  
addition to an ebook reader.
Perhaps that'll meet your needs.
Once it's out, 350 bucks will get *anyone* a pda that *can* talk if  
so desired.
Can't beat that.


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

RE: Definitely unslung

[Georgina Joyce]

Hi

No, why, isn't an ARM processor good enough?  As I said with a 2 Gb stick in one of the two USB ports, it's quite responsive in loading apps but I haven't installed any speech on it.  I should that but as I said it's been found permanent tasks, so won't be messed about with.

Thanks, for the louder Linux info.  I didn't know about that one.

Regards

Gena

Amateur Call: M 0 E B P

VOIP / IM: gena1959uk



-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of C.M. Brannon
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 1:55 AM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: Definitely unslung


"Georgina Joyce" <gena-j@bulldoghome.com> writes:

> no more mods on this one.  But I'm still looking for a way of
> building my own Linux portable PC that I can use as a mp3 player if
> I choose, a note taker, or diary manager.  While the slug has 2 USB
> ports and a Ethernet connection I really need to be able to add
> further boards such as Bluetooth and wireless B/G.  So if anyone
> else is meddling in such areas please let me know.

Hi,
I've been hoping for an affordable portable Linux system for some
time, especially if it has wireless networking and ethernet.  I hate
lugging a laptop; the dead weight of a screen is especially irksome.
PDAs with speech are overpriced.  Most seem to run Windows, with one
exception (the Pappenmeier device).

There's a group of people who are trying to turn a Linksys router into
a talking portable.  See www.louderlinux.net.  I wish them luck.

Does your "slug" device use an x86 processor?  That would make it
especially attractive.

-- Chris



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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Re: Definitely unslung

[Alex Snow]

Would personally rather something that's not x86 if I was going to put 
together a sub-laptop linux machine.  Seems the smaller/slower 
imbedded processors like strongarm are far better on heat and power 
consumption.  Especially since it would most likely just run a simple 
console maybe with a menu system thrown on top the slower processor 
wouldn't matter so much.
On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:54:40PM -0500, C.M. 
Brannon wrote:
> "Georgina Joyce" <gena-j@bulldoghome.com> writes:
> 
> > no more mods on this one.  But I'm still looking for a way of
> > building my own Linux portable PC that I can use as a mp3 player if
> > I choose, a note taker, or diary manager.  While the slug has 2 USB
> > ports and a Ethernet connection I really need to be able to add
> > further boards such as Bluetooth and wireless B/G.  So if anyone
> > else is meddling in such areas please let me know.
> 
> Hi,
> I've been hoping for an affordable portable Linux system for some
> time, especially if it has wireless networking and ethernet.  I hate
> lugging a laptop; the dead weight of a screen is especially irksome.
> PDAs with speech are overpriced.  Most seem to run Windows, with one
> exception (the Pappenmeier device).
> 
> There's a group of people who are trying to turn a Linksys router into
> a talking portable.  See www.louderlinux.net.  I wish them luck.
> 
> Does your "slug" device use an x86 processor?  That would make it
> especially attractive.
> 
> -- Chris
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Definitely unslung

[C.M. Brannon]

Alex Snow <alex_snow@gmx.net> writes:

> Would personally rather something that's not x86 if I was going to put 
> together a sub-laptop linux machine.  Seems the smaller/slower 
> imbedded processors like strongarm are far better on heat and power 
> consumption.  Especially since it would most likely just run a simple 
> console maybe with a menu system thrown on top the slower processor 
> wouldn't matter so much.

Yes, that's true.  Personally, I like RISC machines.  The main
advantage of x86 IMHO is the availability of precompiled binaries.
Plus, I can compile something on my home  system, and use the binary
on my laptop, without resorting to a crosscompiling toolchain.

-- Chris

Re: Definitely unslung

[Doug Sutherland]

I have played around with many single board computers. I sold several 
on ebay last year. I would recommend looking into one of the industrial 
boards like PC104, one manufacturer that has very good prices is 
Advantech 

http://www.advantech.com/

There are also very good deals on similar boards selling on ebay quite
regularly, for example I've seen some sell as low as $30, and I sold 
one that was a 1Ghz PC104 with 512MB ram, a dual PCMCIA add
on card, a PCMCIA wireless card, all cables and accessories, and I
sold it for $199, it was worth much more new but I needed to get 
rid of stuff that wasn't being used. It was a nice setup but too power
hungry for my projects.

I used to do a lot of work on PC compatible small boards usually in 
the 6x4 inch format, but now I'm working on ARM based boards,
with more specialized purposed, mainly due to their much lower power
consumption for battery operation.

Set up automated searches on ebay for keywords PC104, PC/104
and Single Board Computer and watch for a while, you'll see some 
really good deals.

  -- Doug