* gentoo dropping speakup support @ Keith Hinton ` James Homuth ` Gaijin 0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Keith Hinton @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi, Forgive me for the subject that I decided to post your message with, but I wanted to see: Ever sinse posting that subject back in 2007, how do you feel about where Speakup is now? Also, has Gentoo released a iso with Speakup in it? If so, where do I obtain the new Iso? I am not sure where Gentoo's autobuilds are located anymore directory structure wise. Also, Gentoo Linux 2008.0 is old, way old. I had to upgrade my servers portage to testing and a lot of other things were necessary to be on bleading edge. Gentoo 2008.0 is fine, but it becomes much harder to update if you install from a 2008.0 CD. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* RE: gentoo dropping speakup support gentoo dropping speakup support Keith Hinton @ ` James Homuth ` Gaijin 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: James Homuth @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.' Right now, there is to my knowledge no ISO containing speakup. But it's something they're apparently working on for the new profiles coming out. At least, that's the rumor anyway. Someone more in the know will probably chime in later on. -----Original Message----- From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Keith Hinton Sent: August 31, 2009 4:12 AM To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca Subject: gentoo dropping speakup support Hi, Forgive me for the subject that I decided to post your message with, but I wanted to see: Ever sinse posting that subject back in 2007, how do you feel about where Speakup is now? Also, has Gentoo released a iso with Speakup in it? If so, where do I obtain the new Iso? I am not sure where Gentoo's autobuilds are located anymore directory structure wise. Also, Gentoo Linux 2008.0 is old, way old. I had to upgrade my servers portage to testing and a lot of other things were necessary to be on bleading edge. Gentoo 2008.0 is fine, but it becomes much harder to update if you install from a 2008.0 CD. _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support gentoo dropping speakup support Keith Hinton ` James Homuth @ ` Gaijin 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Gaijin @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 02:12:15AM -0600, Keith Hinton wrote: > I had to upgrade my servers portage to testing and a lot of other things > were necessary to be on bleading edge. Gentoo 2008.0 is fine, but it becomes > much harder to update if you install from a 2008.0 CD. Yeah, that's the problem with riding the bleeding edge. The ride never stops. Makes me wish sometimes that the improvement phase would stop so the bugs could be wiped, and SpeakUP could be released in at least one completed form or version. At least then the distros would then have something to latch onto for their releases. Michael -- Linux User: 177869 Powered by Intel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* gentoo dropping speakup support
@ William Hubbs
` Zachary Kline
` (4 more replies)
0 siblings, 5 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: William Hubbs @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
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All,
because of this bug [1], gentoo linux will be dropping support for speakup in its official kernels starting at 2.6.22.
[1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177794
Is there any possibility at all that speakup could be moved into user space as the bug suggests? I feel that if we can go into user space this will b a better approach.
Thanks,
- --
William Hubbs
gentoo accessibility team lead
williamh@gentoo.org
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support William Hubbs @ ` Zachary Kline ` Sina Bahram ` Gaijin ` Tom Moore ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Zachary Kline @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hello, I would like to formally state that I disapprove of this removal. It is only thanks to Speakup being included in the default kernel that we are able to perform unassisted installations of Gentoo at all. This seems as if it would be a great step backwards. Might I suggest that we attempt to contact the Speakup mailing list and developers for information on this issue? Thank you, Zachary Kline. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hubbs" <williamh@gentoo.org> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: gentoo dropping speakup support > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > All, > > because of this bug [1], gentoo linux will be dropping support for speakup > in its official kernels starting at 2.6.22. > > [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177794 > > Is there any possibility at all that speakup could be moved into user > space as the bug suggests? I feel that if we can go into user space this > will b a better approach. > > Thanks, > > - -- > William Hubbs > gentoo accessibility team lead > williamh@gentoo.org > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFGdZLWblQW9DDEZTgRAsCOAJoD/roDmHTKu7ji8qTXZ2eoX47T1ACeIivJ > j/qhb9Z6KNpfitEvr7Onrug= > =mpb2 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* RE: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Zachary Kline @ ` Sina Bahram ` Gaijin 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Sina Bahram @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.' In the spirit of open discovery, I will point out that I've never had any problems with the accessibility of the ssh installation of gentoo. I have sighted colleagues who never once have to use a monitor hooked up to the target machine during a gentoo install, and only use ssh to accomplish this, and I've done the same. Take care, Sina -----Original Message----- From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Zachary Kline Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:37 PM To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Subject: Re: gentoo dropping speakup support Hello, I would like to formally state that I disapprove of this removal. It is only thanks to Speakup being included in the default kernel that we are able to perform unassisted installations of Gentoo at all. This seems as if it would be a great step backwards. Might I suggest that we attempt to contact the Speakup mailing list and developers for information on this issue? Thank you, Zachary Kline. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hubbs" <williamh@gentoo.org> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: gentoo dropping speakup support > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > All, > > because of this bug [1], gentoo linux will be dropping support for speakup > in its official kernels starting at 2.6.22. > > [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177794 > > Is there any possibility at all that speakup could be moved into user > space as the bug suggests? I feel that if we can go into user space this > will b a better approach. > > Thanks, > > - -- > William Hubbs > gentoo accessibility team lead > williamh@gentoo.org > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFGdZLWblQW9DDEZTgRAsCOAJoD/roDmHTKu7ji8qTXZ2eoX47T1ACeIivJ > j/qhb9Z6KNpfitEvr7Onrug= > =mpb2 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Zachary Kline ` Sina Bahram @ ` Gaijin 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Gaijin @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Zachary Kline wrote: > I would like to formally state that I disapprove of this removal. Are they leaving even one SpeakUp kernel in the distro...so people can at least get *something* working? Bugrit. Michael ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* RE: gentoo dropping speakup support William Hubbs ` Zachary Kline @ ` Tom Moore ` Michael Whapples ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Tom Moore @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.' Could the Speakup patch be left out for the kernel types it does not build on? As far as I know we really don't have any way of testing on systems that aren't i386 or amd64. So there's not any real way of knowing if Speakup works on other architectures. Tom -----Original Message----- From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of William Hubbs Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:00 PM To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca Subject: gentoo dropping speakup support -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 All, because of this bug [1], gentoo linux will be dropping support for speakup in its official kernels starting at 2.6.22. [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177794 Is there any possibility at all that speakup could be moved into user space as the bug suggests? I feel that if we can go into user space this will b a better approach. Thanks, - -- William Hubbs gentoo accessibility team lead williamh@gentoo.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGdZLWblQW9DDEZTgRAsCOAJoD/roDmHTKu7ji8qTXZ2eoX47T1ACeIivJ j/qhb9Z6KNpfitEvr7Onrug= =mpb2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support William Hubbs ` Zachary Kline ` Tom Moore @ ` Michael Whapples ` Deedra Waters ` John covici ` Luke Yelavich 4 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Michael Whapples @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. While it is a shame that you find this, thank you for saying what the exact problem is. If speakup won't compile on x86-64 either now, I am sure that soon someone will fix that as it probably affects quite a number of users. Other than the install of gentoo, I don't think the impact is as bad as it is for other distros as gentoo users may tend to want to compile a custom kernel anyway. The install probably isn't such a problem as I think if you are doing an install from the internet then it doesn't matter what version of gentoo the CD is as the installed system will be the latest, so a user could use the last release with speakup to install with speakup (unless they are doing an install without internet access, for which there may not be a solution). On a different note, while I don't know enough about the kernel to be certain, but is this problem to do with speakup and the way it accesses the serial ports? As I remember from some previous discussions about speakup and serial port access, I think it was said that if speakup used the standard serial port driver then it should be possible to use serial ports not built on the motherboard. So would this also help in solving such a problem as found in gentoo? If so might it be time to say it must be done? Unfortunately I currently cannot help with this as I am a python programmer so would need to learn C before I could do anything, probably something I should do as so much opensource software is written in C. From Michael Whapples On Sun, 2007-06-17 at 15:00 -0500, William Hubbs wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > All, > > because of this bug [1], gentoo linux will be dropping support for speakup in its official kernels starting at 2.6.22. > > [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177794 > > Is there any possibility at all that speakup could be moved into user space as the bug suggests? I feel that if we can go into user space this will b a better approach. > > Thanks, > > - -- > William Hubbs > gentoo accessibility team lead > williamh@gentoo.org > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFGdZLWblQW9DDEZTgRAsCOAJoD/roDmHTKu7ji8qTXZ2eoX47T1ACeIivJ > j/qhb9Z6KNpfitEvr7Onrug= > =mpb2 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Michael Whapples @ ` Deedra Waters ` Travis Siegel 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Deedra Waters @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Michael Whapples wrote: > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:22:19 +0100 > From: Michael Whapples <mwhapples@aim.com> > Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. > <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Subject: Re: gentoo dropping speakup support > > While it is a shame that you find this, thank you for saying what the > exact problem is. If speakup won't compile on x86-64 either now, I am > sure that soon someone will fix that as it probably affects quite a > number of users. - From what i gather it's not building with .22 in general though i could be wrong. However, not building on x86-64 does effect a lot of users, because a lot of the blind folks i've talked to lately are using amd64 and other similar systems. > > Other than the install of gentoo, I don't think the impact is as bad as > it is for other distros as gentoo users may tend to want to compile a > custom kernel anyway. The install probably isn't such a problem as I > think if you are doing an install from the internet then it doesn't > matter what version of gentoo the CD is as the installed system will be > the latest, so a user could use the last release with speakup to install > with speakup (unless they are doing an install without internet access, > for which there may not be a solution). actually, most gentoo users use the gentoo-sources kernels because they have several aditional patches. You are right in that gentoo users can use an older livecd to install the system, which is what i suggest people do since any newer releases won't be able to talk because of the speakup support being removed. > > On a different note, while I don't know enough about the kernel to be > certain, but is this problem to do with speakup and the way it accesses > the serial ports? As I remember from some previous discussions about > speakup and serial port access, I think it was said that if speakup used > the standard serial port driver then it should be possible to use serial > ports not built on the motherboard. So would this also help in solving > such a problem as found in gentoo? If so might it be time to say it must > be done? You are right, that is the problem here. Williamh and i talked a great deal before he wrote that email. While i don't like this idea, i think it's time that speakup be put into user space as daniel has said in the bug. If you really must have the boot omessages you can get them from dmesg, or at worst, use the kernel config option to get your kernel to dump panics in swap space, stick the machine on a livecd and get the panics that way. Unfortunately, i'm with daniel on this one i really think it's time to put speakup into user space. > > Unfortunately I currently cannot help with this as I am a python > programmer so would need to learn C before I could do anything, probably > something I should do as so much opensource software is written in C. > > From > Michael Whapples > On Sun, 2007-06-17 at 15:00 -0500, William Hubbs wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > All, > > > > because of this bug [1], gentoo linux will be dropping support for speakup in its official kernels starting at 2.6.22. > > > > [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177794 > > > > Is there any possibility at all that speakup could be moved into user space as the bug suggests? I feel that if we can go into user space this will b a better approach. > > > > Thanks, > > > > - -- > > William Hubbs > > gentoo accessibility team lead > > williamh@gentoo.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iD8DBQFGdZLWblQW9DDEZTgRAsCOAJoD/roDmHTKu7ji8qTXZ2eoX47T1ACeIivJ > > j/qhb9Z6KNpfitEvr7Onrug= > > =mpb2 > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > - -- Deedra Waters - Gentoo accessibility and amd64 - dmwaters@gentoo.org Gentoo linux: http://www.gentoo.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGddVyU5AGPOTGNc8RAviEAJ9iETquiB3Si3ZqpOYheC4bO+xDcwCgrp7l ZTDkY7qgDJ79AJcw1y9qiq0= =yvTG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Deedra Waters @ ` Travis Siegel ` Zachary Kline ` Doug Sutherland 0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Travis Siegel @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I have to strongly disagree here as relates to bootable messages. Speakup makes linux the *only* os where blind users can see the boot up as it happens. Even dos can't do that, and I have more than once managed to fix a machine with linux because of the speakup capability to speak *all* bootup messages. Dumping them to a logfile, booting with a live cd, then reading the log may work for users who are advanced enough to figure it out, (or are lucky enough to have simple enough configurations this can be done) but by doing so, you're basically saying that those who want to troubleshoot their own boxes w/o sighted assistance are sol. And, if the hd is bad, then your logging isn't going to work anyhow. Not to mention, this isn't a process that can be done w/o sighted assistance. While I'm more of a slackware user than anything else, having speakup work out of the box is something I've enjoyed almost since speakup was released, and I for one would be extremely sorry (not to mention irritated at the lack of access it would mean) to have it removed into user space. There's already programs for user space access (yasr anyone) and while those work for normal usage, they aren't usable for troubleshooting and/or fixing a broken machine. I've been doing my own technical support since 1990 (or thereabouts) and having this capability now removed would be the equivalent of moving to vista before any screen readers were specifically targeted to it. Sure, you could use the system, but you're not going to get anywhere near the full use out of your system you'd otherwise get. I don't have a 64-bit machine, so can't help fix this problem, nor are my C skills up to the task (likely) but I'd strongly urge those with the capability, to *not* abandon speakup working as it does now. I will of course help where I can, but yanking it entirely out of the boot sequence is just asking for additional problems. Don't do it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Travis Siegel @ ` Zachary Kline ` C.M. Brannon ` Doug Sutherland 1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Zachary Kline @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hello, I agree. It is simply not going to work if it is forced into user space. The fact I have a supported hardware synthesizer means that I'm able to read everything as it comes up, debug things that don't, etc. I couldn't go back to even software speech, because with software speech you don't get that, and the reason is user space. Speech-dispatcher and speechd-up and such are userspace programs, and so if the machine doesn't get to a point where they can launch we're dead in the water. I for one am going to be attending a university in the fall, and don't look forward to having to ask a sighted person to tell me what the kernel panic says or how the FSCK is coming. Please, if possible reconsider this decision. It is extremely unproductive in the longterm. Any problems Speakup may have building with 2.6.22 will be fixed in due course. Thank you, Zachary Kline. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Siegel" <tsiegel@softcon.com> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:20 PM Subject: Re: gentoo dropping speakup support >I have to strongly disagree here as relates to bootable messages. > Speakup makes linux the *only* os where blind users can see the boot > up as it happens. Even dos can't do that, and I have more than once > managed to fix a machine with linux because of the speakup capability > to speak *all* bootup messages. Dumping them to a logfile, booting > with a live cd, then reading the log may work for users who are > advanced enough to figure it out, (or are lucky enough to have simple > enough configurations this can be done) but by doing so, you're > basically saying that those who want to troubleshoot their own boxes > w/o sighted assistance are sol. > And, if the hd is bad, then your logging isn't going to work anyhow. > Not to mention, this isn't a process that can be done w/o sighted > assistance. > While I'm more of a slackware user than anything else, having speakup > work out of the box is something I've enjoyed almost since speakup > was released, and I for one would be extremely sorry (not to mention > irritated at the lack of access it would mean) to have it removed > into user space. There's already programs for user space access > (yasr anyone) and while those work for normal usage, they aren't > usable for troubleshooting and/or fixing a broken machine. I've been > doing my own technical support since 1990 (or thereabouts) and having > this capability now removed would be the equivalent of moving to > vista before any screen readers were specifically targeted to it. > Sure, you could use the system, but you're not going to get anywhere > near the full use out of your system you'd otherwise get. > > I don't have a 64-bit machine, so can't help fix this problem, nor > are my C skills up to the task (likely) but I'd strongly urge those > with the capability, to *not* abandon speakup working as it does now. > I will of course help where I can, but yanking it entirely out of the > boot sequence is just asking for additional problems. > Don't do it. > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Zachary Kline @ ` C.M. Brannon 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: C.M. Brannon @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. "Zachary Kline" <Z_kline@hotmail.com> writes: > I agree. It is simply not going to work if it is forced into user > space. The fact I have a supported hardware synthesizer means that I'm able *snip* > I for one am going to be attending a university in the fall, and > don't look forward to having to ask a sighted person to tell me what Hi Zach, I am pursuing an M.S. degree in comp sci, and I've used software speech on the laptop for nearly a year now. I refuse to carry a hardware synth. I already carry an external keyboard, because I dislike laptop keyboards. Plugging in one or two peripherals is a pain, if you ask me. Plus, if you are anything like I am, then there won't be any room in your laptop bag to carry a hardware synth. I have never had to ask a sighted person to read Linux boot messages for me, ever. The only time I ask people to read screens for me is when I need to use the university's Windows systems (a rarity). I usually find a sighted female to help me with this; it gives me a good excuse to listen to a pleasant non-robotic voice. In any case, most of the people at university will not mind helping you with such a small thing. 999 times out of 1000, you'll boot your laptop, speech-dispatcher and friends will start, and all will be well. Just my two cents, -- Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Travis Siegel ` Zachary Kline @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Deedra Waters ` Travis Siegel 1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I still wonder about the usb console in relation to speakup. The kernel already has support to direct console to usb rather than serial port, and has had this capability for a long time, yet we still can't use usb serial adapters with speakup because the code assumes hardware serial port. My understanding is that with usb serial console you may miss a bit of the initial boot messages, but I wonder how it might work if speakup was in user space and we could use usb serial adapters. We'd miss a few of the initial boot messages but enable more widespread use of speakup. One way or another this usb problem needs to be sorted out. I have heard it mentioned by someone, I forget who, that a hybrid solution might be the answer, some kernel space and some user. It could be argued that a lot of what happens with speakup is application code, and if the line was drawn between actual hardware drivers and application code then there would be better chance of getting speakup into the official kernel. And this, of course, would be the best thing to happen. If it was all in the kernel with no patches required then there would be none of this discussion about gentoo or ubuntu not supporting it. But presumably the whole thing would have to be re-written. I can think of another reason to do this hybrid idea, to enable getting speakup beyond x86 and into ARM for example. There is no ISA bus there and interrupts are completely different. If it was well engineered as hybrid, with a "port" being generically abstracted in the application code, then it would not matter if the actual port was ISA or PCI card or USB or firewire, or some other thing that hasn't been invented yet. I have an interim suggestion though. Couldn't one make a small root filesystem that loads speakup like as a rescue CD, but not a CD, on the hard drive, for those situations where the regular distro isn't speaking for whatever reason? If you always had a small partition like this bootable with speech then you could at least boot that and then fix your full fledged distro if need be. Also wondering if anyone has tried using chroot in this sort of way, booting minimal system with speech and then chrooting into the full system. -- Doug ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Deedra Waters ` Travis Siegel 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Deedra Waters @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've not used something like what you're suggesting to fix my system but i've used a livecd god knows how many times to fix my system, boot, chroot, and fix, has worked well enough for me in the past and i've seen other gentoo users use the same to fix their machines. On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Doug Sutherland wrote: > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 22:48:52 -0500 > From: Doug Sutherland <doug@proficio.ca> > Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. > <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Subject: Re: gentoo dropping speakup support > > I still wonder about the usb console in relation to speakup. > The kernel already has support to direct console to usb > rather than serial port, and has had this capability for a > long time, yet we still can't use usb serial adapters with > speakup because the code assumes hardware serial > port. My understanding is that with usb serial console > you may miss a bit of the initial boot messages, but I > wonder how it might work if speakup was in user space > and we could use usb serial adapters. We'd miss a few > of the initial boot messages but enable more widespread > use of speakup. One way or another this usb problem > needs to be sorted out. I have heard it mentioned by > someone, I forget who, that a hybrid solution might > be the answer, some kernel space and some user. > It could be argued that a lot of what happens with > speakup is application code, and if the line was drawn > between actual hardware drivers and application code > then there would be better chance of getting speakup > into the official kernel. And this, of course, would be > the best thing to happen. If it was all in the kernel with > no patches required then there would be none of this > discussion about gentoo or ubuntu not supporting it. > But presumably the whole thing would have to be > re-written. I can think of another reason to do this > hybrid idea, to enable getting speakup beyond x86 > and into ARM for example. There is no ISA bus > there and interrupts are completely different. If it > was well engineered as hybrid, with a "port" being > generically abstracted in the application code, then > it would not matter if the actual port was ISA or > PCI card or USB or firewire, or some other thing > that hasn't been invented yet. > > I have an interim suggestion though. Couldn't one > make a small root filesystem that loads speakup > like as a rescue CD, but not a CD, on the hard > drive, for those situations where the regular distro > isn't speaking for whatever reason? If you always > had a small partition like this bootable with speech > then you could at least boot that and then fix your > full fledged distro if need be. Also wondering if > anyone has tried using chroot in this sort of way, > booting minimal system with speech and then > chrooting into the full system. > > -- Doug > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > - -- Deedra Waters - Gentoo accessibility and amd64 - dmwaters@gentoo.org Gentoo linux: http://www.gentoo.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGdfXhU5AGPOTGNc8RAsPSAJ4+pVbprVRiu/Ytr7LUnMOYWAfT0gCdGrKA 6x0rR4zDIxa15G1beVGQaoQ= =tFf6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Doug Sutherland ` Deedra Waters @ ` Travis Siegel ` Gaijin ` Doug Sutherland 1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Travis Siegel @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Doug. Your suggestion of having a small installation on the machine is a good one, and it probably would work. However, this assumes you already know what the problem is that needs fixed. Without having access to the actual boot messages (not just the ones you see while booting into your sandbox as it were) you'll never be able to solve any major problems that crop up in regards to the main system. it is however, not a bad idea, since it would allow some degree of free usage w/o sighted assistance on simple fixes. it wouldn't address the main issue though. And, in any case, it's functionally equivalent to the original suggestion of using a live cd to boot and work on fixing the issues from there. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Travis Siegel @ ` Gaijin ` Doug Sutherland ` Doug Sutherland 1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Gaijin @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Travis Siegel wrote: > Doug. > Your suggestion of having a small installation on the machine is a > good one, and it probably would work. I second the motion. I'm about to get a LiteTalk here this week and and install Slackware. An extra 7 to 10 Gig dual-boot partition is a darned good one. I was planning on running a dual-boot setup to the same kernal, hopefully using the append command in lilo to boot different runlevels. Have a coupleset aside for emergency boots to software synth emulation in one runlevel, etc...if lilo supports it. Having an emergency diagnostic partition is even better. Thanks Doug. Michael ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Gaijin @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Luke Yelavich 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. One more suggestion. If gentoo or ubuntoo or any distro doesn't include speakup, how about a script that grabs a kernel from kernel.org, extracts, patches, compiles, and installs it? I once made a script that built an entire linux system from scratch, I mean building the toolchain and all, if that's possible surely this is too. I suppose the tricky part is kernel config, but even then it should be possible to make a generic kernel that would boot with speech on just about anything, with some work. Or, you could use slackware, hehe. Screw gentoo. Just kidding. -- Doug ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Luke Yelavich ` Jim Grimsby Jr. 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Luke Yelavich @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 03:06:35PM EST, Doug Sutherland wrote: > One more suggestion. If gentoo or ubuntoo or any distro > doesn't include speakup, how about a script that grabs > a kernel from kernel.org, extracts, patches, compiles, > and installs it? That would be useful, however speakup as it currently stands, will not work with 2.6.22, period, no matter what distro does or does not ship it, or no matter what script is set up to grab it all and glue it together. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* RE: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Luke Yelavich @ ` Jim Grimsby Jr. 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Jim Grimsby Jr. @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.' Hi what I want to know is how come speakup is not part of the base line kernel? It seems to be a problem every time a new kernel comes out. If speakup was infact included in the base line kernel it seems to me every distro would pick it up. -----Original Message----- From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Luke Yelavich Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:28 PM To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca Subject: Re: gentoo dropping speakup support On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 03:06:35PM EST, Doug Sutherland wrote: > One more suggestion. If gentoo or ubuntoo or any distro > doesn't include speakup, how about a script that grabs > a kernel from kernel.org, extracts, patches, compiles, > and installs it? That would be useful, however speakup as it currently stands, will not work with 2.6.22, period, no matter what distro does or does not ship it, or no matter what script is set up to grab it all and glue it together. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 6/17/2007 8:23 AM ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Travis Siegel ` Gaijin @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Gaijin 1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Travis, I wasn't suggesting that this was addressing the real problem, as I said, it was a suggestion as interim way to at least have speech if the regular boot doesn't talk. The problem is bigger than user space or not. Right now you cannot grab a doubletalk LT and plug it into a USB serial adapter and use speakup, or any RS232 synth. Interestingly though, you can plug a doubletalk LT into USB serial adapter and configure the kernel for usb serial console and get ALMOST all of the boot messages, but speakup will not work. The days of having RS232 ports on PCs might be limited, and there's lots of RS232 synths around, so this is an example where the real answer lies in at mininal some re-architecture of the speakup driver. I'm perhaps a bit over the edge here, but I like to think a lot in the multimodal sense that its always a bad idea to assume specific modality, like a PC keyboard for example. What I would like to see happening in speech and accessibility in general is generic interfaces that do not assume specific device. The synth has functions that you invoke with keyboard, now let's say it was on a phone with 4x4 keypad, or on a remote control, it would be nice if it could still be doable. So basically rather than assuming 104 key keyboard that would be one mapping of function to controller. There seems to be several good arguments for re-architecting the drivers in this way, on both the synth and user ends of the whole. The kernel versus user space argument is interesting. Consider ALSA, you have kernel drivers, but you also have apps that use those drivers like the config apps and the mixers and players. I tend to think that strategically speakup needs to move in that direction. Tactically my suggestion was coming up with some small easily installable root file system and kernel that would enable speech for those who don't have it working, which from watching this list for several years, seems to be many people. What would be really cool is a USB dongle that is not only a speech system but an entire linux system on flash too. You could boot it on a windows machine and not use windows at all. And ideally it would also work with windows. Okay, now back to reality, I'd be happy just to figure out how to solve the usb serial problem in the near term. -- Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Siegel" <tsiegel@softcon.com> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:16 PM Subject: Re: gentoo dropping speakup support > Doug. > Your suggestion of having a small installation on the machine is a > good one, and it probably would work. However, this assumes you > already know what the problem is that needs fixed. Without having > access to the actual boot messages (not just the ones you see while > booting into your sandbox as it were) you'll never be able to solve > any major problems that crop up in regards to the main system. > it is however, not a bad idea, since it would allow some degree of > free usage w/o sighted assistance on simple fixes. it wouldn't > address the main issue though. > And, in any case, it's functionally equivalent to the original > suggestion of using a live cd to boot and work on fixing the issues > from there. > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Gaijin ` Doug Sutherland 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Gaijin @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Doug Sutherland wrote: > There seems to be several good arguments for > re-architecting the drivers in this way, on both the > synth and user ends of the whole. Sounds like SpeakUp is not really a module, but a reworking of the kernel. If SpeakUp were implemented more as a module...can't modules be loaded from the lilo/grub boot prompt? If so, then it could be included as a kernel module, loaded at startup by those who need it...I really need to see the code. <sighs> I'm thinking if it were a module that simply works with the kernal, there'd be less resistance to adding it to the source. Does the kernal support dual monitors? It could possibly be implemented in a similar manner...if Linus already has implemented something similar. Just follow his example...use his own code against him, in a manner of speaking. <grins> We could also get him really, really drunk and tell him that he was the one who wrote it. I could also threaten to marry his sister? It would be worth it. Michael ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Gaijin @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Michael Whapples 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Speakup does use modules, and it can be statically compiled into kernel instead. That's not a problem. The serial ports, however only support real serial ports, not usb-serial, which is becoming a problem. As I said a few months ago, the whole usb mess can be statically compiled, including the usb core, the host controller, and even usb-serial devices audio devices, and synth drivers, like the dtlk for example, so in theory it should be possible to boot and get speech output, with changes to speakup. As it is now, the code refers to the standard serial port addresses and irqs, and the communication code is RS232 specific. So this what I mean about abstraction. An abstract interface does not implement anything, it only defines. The implementation can be anything as long as it follows the interface. So basically there needs to be a layer of code in between the serial port code and the code that writes to it, one interface with several implementations, RS232 serial, USB serial, and potential for any other kind of implementation. And my argument was that the same could be done on the user side, pressing a certain key does some thing, currently assumed to be standard keyboard, but would be nice if abstract interface where the keyboard is one type of controller, other devices could trigger same. I'm mostly thinking about mobile pervasive systems, where you might want to read a message or email, not type, and your device is in your pocket. So you have a little controller sort of like a game pad where you can move between messages and read them etc, or get phone numbers from a list. If the interface to the synth is generic then there are all kinds of possibilities. I will be working on this kind of thing with speech, and I am still contemplating whether or not it needs to be kernel space. On an embedded device you really don't need to see all the boot messages, because it will load kernel from flash and will always work. If I find a way to adapt this code to work on arm then I might use it, but I actually think I could do the same thing entirely in user space. Boot is much simpler than PC and very fixed in nature, ie once done it shouldn't change, no need to support gazillions of types of hardware etc. I like the idea of being able to hear the console output, but then I might end up just using usb-serial console and having a microcontroller providing a terminal function, in other words both the speech and keyboard functions. If done that way it would possibly miss a very small amount of boot messages, but not many. It would be the same as using a terminal program with your PC connected to another PC with usb serial dongle and watching the other machine boot. -- Doug ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Michael Whapples ` Lorenzo Taylor 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Michael Whapples @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Doug your talking a lot of sense, and when I mentioned about speakup and how it accesses serial ports I think I was thinking back to some of your comments. You have within this thread mentioned should be speakup be a combination of kernel code and user space code, I think I may have mentioned this before and would also support this type of idea. As an example, I think the jupiter speech system is this combination approach, how does it compare to speakup for ease of being maintained to work with newer kernels, I know that there has been some times in the past when speakup has had to be altered specifically for newer kernels (sometimes breaking it for the older kernels). Another thought about this idea of making the core of speakup not be interface specific (which I think would be a good idea), is that I think on the list someone asked about a headless install, and there was a reply that if by headless this would also mean no video card, then speakup wouldn't work, I don't know if it could be done another way, but this seems a bit specific (thinking, may be speakup would have a driver to access video memory, but also could have another dummy graphics driver should the machine not have a video card). Having all the boot messages, while it is useful, and speakup is about the only way I know how to get the messages at the time (all, from the earliest possible moment), the question should be asked, on a properly configured system, how many problems might realistically occur before such a stage as USB console can work, and eventually the serial ports that speakup can currently use will soon be gone if the trend of hardware manufacturers is anything to go by. I don't know how many are actually working on speakup, but I think it is only a few and speakup is probably not the only thing for them. I have to admit as I understand things we are going to have to make hard decissions and put what effort in the best direction, may it need to be a complete rewrite, etc. From Michael Whapples On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 01:18 -0500, Doug Sutherland wrote: > Speakup does use modules, and it can be statically compiled > into kernel instead. That's not a problem. The serial ports, > however only support real serial ports, not usb-serial, which > is becoming a problem. > > As I said a few months ago, the whole usb mess can be > statically compiled, including the usb core, the host controller, > and even usb-serial devices audio devices, and synth drivers, > like the dtlk for example, so in theory it should be possible to > boot and get speech output, with changes to speakup. > > As it is now, the code refers to the standard serial port > addresses and irqs, and the communication code is RS232 > specific. > > So this what I mean about abstraction. An abstract interface > does not implement anything, it only defines. The implementation > can be anything as long as it follows the interface. So basically > there needs to be a layer of code in between the serial port code > and the code that writes to it, one interface with several > implementations, RS232 serial, USB serial, and potential for any > other kind of implementation. And my argument was that the > same could be done on the user side, pressing a certain key does > some thing, currently assumed to be standard keyboard, but > would be nice if abstract interface where the keyboard is one type > of controller, other devices could trigger same. I'm mostly thinking > about mobile pervasive systems, where you might want to read a > message or email, not type, and your device is in your pocket. So > you have a little controller sort of like a game pad where you can > move between messages and read them etc, or get phone numbers > from a list. If the interface to the synth is generic then there are all > kinds of possibilities. > > I will be working on this kind of thing with speech, and I am > still contemplating whether or not it needs to be kernel space. > On an embedded device you really don't need to see all the > boot messages, because it will load kernel from flash and will > always work. If I find a way to adapt this code to work on > arm then I might use it, but I actually think I could do the same > thing entirely in user space. Boot is much simpler than PC and > very fixed in nature, ie once done it shouldn't change, no need > to support gazillions of types of hardware etc. I like the idea > of being able to hear the console output, but then I might end > up just using usb-serial console and having a microcontroller > providing a terminal function, in other words both the speech > and keyboard functions. If done that way it would possibly > miss a very small amount of boot messages, but not many. > It would be the same as using a terminal program with your > PC connected to another PC with usb serial dongle and > watching the other machine boot. > > -- Doug ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Michael Whapples @ ` Lorenzo Taylor ` Samuel Thibault ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Lorenzo Taylor @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. For a couple of years now I have felt that Speakup should move into userspace, and from time to time I have posted messages to this effect on this list. However I have thought it over and have come to the conclusion that Speakup as it is should remain in the kernel for the sake of those of us who have hardware synthesizers and who can receive the boot messages from start to finish for troubleshooting purposes. On the other hand, speakup in its present form will never gain wide use in major distributions unless it makes it into the mainline kernel tree. My present position is that an alternative userspace only application with the functionality of Speakup should be developed. Unfortunately, the text console userspace only screen reading applications are limited to YASR and Emacspeak. Despite being portable, these applications are quite limiting, since YASR runs a subshell under a running shell in one console only and Emacspeak requires that Emacs be running. A screen reading application based on Brltty's direct access to the console is the best approach to take, since it provides direct access to the currently visible console even if switched, including messages printed to the console by the kernel, and is quite portable, being able to run on any Unix-like OS and even DOS. The configuration is also much easier since it has a configuration menu and a persistent configuration file that it reads automatically at startup so that the persistent files don't have to be copied into /proc to change configuration options. I found also that Brltty can actually start very early on in the boot process, and can even get access to boot messages earlier than Speakup as modules using software speech. I have for some time wanted to play around with PC/Free/Open/NetBSD, but it's nearly impossible, since Speakup depends on the Linux kernel and only YASR and Emacspeak will run on such systems, and I don't want to have access only via SSH or telnet. Some sort of Brltty derived or other userspace only app that will provide the same type of access would help me and others to be able to use and possibly help develope these other OS's. I guess this message has possibly become a call for developers/others who can help me in developing a portable userspace only screen reading application, based on Brltty or not, with as much of the functionality of Speakup as possible as an alternative to a kernel based screen reader. Speakup is good for what it does and should stay in the kernel. It just needs a little work to become mainline kernel ready, and kernel code tends to scare off some developers (like me). <smile> I have played with coding some userspace applications, and have contributed some code to others, but the kernel still scares me. I also like the userspace approach for portability. If anyone who knows anything about programming or can help me in any way and is interested in helping to develope such a portable userspace only screen reader, feel free to contact me off list for discussion of concepts and how to procede. I will be posting messages to other blind Linux user lists as well, unless someone wishes to forward this message on to such lists. I look forward to getting this project off the ground, not as an insult to the Speakup developers who have put so much time and effort into a good application, but as an alternative when Speakup just won't do the job because of its dependence on the Linux kernel and the extensive patching needed to make it work with an upstream kernel. Live long and prosper, Lorenzo -- I've always found anomalies to be very relaxing. It's a curse. --Jadzia Dax: Star Trek Deep Space Nine (The Assignment) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Lorenzo Taylor @ ` Samuel Thibault ` Travis Siegel ` Gaijin 2 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Samuel Thibault @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi, Lorenzo Taylor, le Mon 18 Jun 2007 10:40:26 -0400, a écrit : > My present position is that an alternative userspace only application > with the functionality of Speakup should be developed. Just to put my 2 technological cents: in userspace, speakup should probably be split into speech-dispatcher back-ends that drive speech synthesizers, and a speech-dispatcher front-end that reads the screen. Samuel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Lorenzo Taylor ` Samuel Thibault @ ` Travis Siegel ` Gaijin 2 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Travis Siegel @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. As a starting point, I know brltty has already been ported to OSX. Perhaps that could be used as a base to expand it's usefulness further to other bsd like operations. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support ` Lorenzo Taylor ` Samuel Thibault ` Travis Siegel @ ` Gaijin 2 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Gaijin @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Lorenzo Taylor wrote: > It just needs a little work to become mainline kernel ready, and kernel > code tends to scare off some developers (like me). <smile> Can SpeakUp be re-written as a loadable module? I'm thinking of loading the user interface as a module at the boot prompt. Various parameters could then call additional modules which support specific hardware and port assignments. That way, SpeakUp would, and would not be part of the kernel. Being modular in design, both users and kernal programmers could take it or leave it. In a previous post, someone said Linus didn't care for the way it was implemented...no offense to Kirk and Andy. Then kernal programmers wouldn't have to write code around SpeakUp. There would be far less resistance to including it in the mainline kernal. Perhaps if SpeakUp accessed screen output the same way video modules do? I'm sure the answers are already present in the kernal for how to implement SpeakUp, at least for those of us who already can support it. I figure if primative BIOS can access and use a USB keyboard, then a kernal module can recognise and use a USB synth in a similar fashion. The answer is already in the kernal. It just needs to be cut and pasted into the SpeakUp interface and connected. SpeakUp could then call whatever hardware support module is required or needed, irregardless of the platform. If SpeakUp can call on whatever hardware service is supported by Platform-X, then it would just be a matter of telling SpeakUp what to use and how to communicate with the synth. (Jeez, I need to see the code.) I'll get this effer cross-platform supported if it's the LAST thing I do. <growls> Michael ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* gentoo dropping speakup support William Hubbs ` (2 preceding siblings ...) ` Michael Whapples @ ` John covici ` Luke Yelavich 4 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: John covici @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. As you said in your comment this will be a great step backwards -- I was able to install gentoo on a laptop without assistance because of speakup being built in and now that ubuntu has dropped it, this would be no good. How about just saying its not selectable for spark and seeing if we can get it to work for 2.6.22 elsewhere which I am sure Kirk is working on? The user space idea may be something worth considering as we no longer get the boot messages we used to get, however this would be a much bigger change. Kirk is working on a git patch set which may help, but its broke right now. on Sunday 06/17/2007 William Hubbs(williamh@gentoo.org) wrote > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > All, > > because of this bug [1], gentoo linux will be dropping support for speakup in its official kernels starting at 2.6.22. > > [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177794 > > Is there any possibility at all that speakup could be moved into user space as the bug suggests? I feel that if we can go into user space this will b a better approach. > > Thanks, > > - -- > William Hubbs > gentoo accessibility team lead > williamh@gentoo.org > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFGdZLWblQW9DDEZTgRAsCOAJoD/roDmHTKu7ji8qTXZ2eoX47T1ACeIivJ > j/qhb9Z6KNpfitEvr7Onrug= > =mpb2 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici covici@ccs.covici.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo dropping speakup support William Hubbs ` (3 preceding siblings ...) ` John covici @ ` Luke Yelavich 4 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Luke Yelavich @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 06:00:22AM EST, William Hubbs wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > All, > > because of this bug [1], gentoo linux will be dropping support for speakup in its official kernels starting at 2.6.22. > > [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177794 I'd also like to point out that Ubuntu will be offering 2.6.22, and even though speakup has been dropped, unless a solution for 2.6.22 is worked out, speakup will also not work with the Next Ubuntu release. - -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGdbUgjVefwtBjIM4RAmZlAKCdelQRK9rD52iwmSrUmZT4qpRPJwCeMuar GwJbGptIWhj6q4sbfghlXFw= =f44H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
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