lynx

lynx

[Daniel Dalton]

Hi,

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~purslow/lhfb.html

Says that you can't move up/down in a document in lynx by one line. So 
how do I use speakup with lynx? Or how do I browse the net on my linux box?
Thanks.

Daniel.

Re: lynx

[Henry Yen]

On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 09:36:54AM +1100, Daniel Dalton wrote:
> 
> http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~purslow/lhfb.html
> 
> Says that you can't move up/down in a document in lynx by one line. So 
> how do I use speakup with lynx? Or how do I browse the net on my linux box?

1. either the insert key or control-P scroll back two lines.
2. either the delete key or control-N scroll forward two lines.

lynx also has a "blynx" guide for blind-lynx users.  see the
lynx help.

Re: lynx

[Jude DaShiell]

That's not necessarily correct.  If emacs keys is set true in lynx options 
then that is correct but only in that case.  If you haven't got emacs keys 
set, try using the up and down arrow keys on the keyboard to move up and 
down by single lines.



On Sun, 18 Nov 2007, Henry Yen wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 09:36:54AM +1100, Daniel Dalton wrote:
>>
>> http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~purslow/lhfb.html
>>
>> Says that you can't move up/down in a document in lynx by one line. So
>> how do I use speakup with lynx? Or how do I browse the net on my linux box?
>
> 1. either the insert key or control-P scroll back two lines.
> 2. either the delete key or control-N scroll forward two lines.
>
> lynx also has a "blynx" guide for blind-lynx users.  see the
> lynx help.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: lynx

[Henry Yen]

That's not my experience.  The uparrow and downarrow keys move to the previous
and next link.  I use insert and delete to scroll up and down.
(My .lynxrc has both vi_keys and emacs_keys turned off.)

On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 21:17:18PM -0600, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> That's not necessarily correct.  If emacs keys is set true in lynx options 
> then that is correct but only in that case.  If you haven't got emacs keys 
> set, try using the up and down arrow keys on the keyboard to move up and 
> down by single lines.
> 
> On Sun, 18 Nov 2007, Henry Yen wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 09:36:54AM +1100, Daniel Dalton wrote:
> >>
> >> http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~purslow/lhfb.html
> >>
> >> Says that you can't move up/down in a document in lynx by one line. So
> >> how do I use speakup with lynx? Or how do I browse the net on my linux box?
> >
> > 1. either the insert key or control-P scroll back two lines.
> > 2. either the delete key or control-N scroll forward two lines.
> >
> > lynx also has a "blynx" guide for blind-lynx users.  see the
> > lynx help.

-- 
Henry Yen                                       Aegis Information Systems, Inc.
Senior Systems Programmer                       Hicksville, New York

Re: lynx

[Daniel Dalton]

On 19/11/2007 10:16 AM, Henry Yen wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 09:36:54AM +1100, Daniel Dalton wrote:
>> http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~purslow/lhfb.html
>>
>> Says that you can't move up/down in a document in lynx by one line. So 
>> how do I use speakup with lynx? Or how do I browse the net on my linux box?
> 
> 1. either the insert key or control-P scroll back two lines.
> 2. either the delete key or control-N scroll forward two lines.

Well I need to read all the lines on the page?
So how do I do that? Otherwise I will miss stuff.

> 
> lynx also has a "blynx" guide for blind-lynx users.  see the
> lynx help.

Got an url? Where is "lynx help"?

Re: lynx

[Henry Yen]

On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 08:36:01AM +1100, Daniel Dalton wrote:
> Well I need to read all the lines on the page?
> So how do I do that? Otherwise I will miss stuff.

I don't know that answer, although I'd very much like to find out.

> > lynx also has a "blynx" guide for blind-lynx users.  see the
> > lynx help.
> 
> Got an url? Where is "lynx help"?

Just invoke lynx without arguments.  Either the help screen comes
right up, or an intro screen comes up that will get to the help
screen when yu type a question mark.  The help screen has a
link (possibly hopelessly outdated?) pointing to "blynx" information.

-- 
Henry Yen                                       Aegis Information Systems, Inc.
Senior Systems Programmer                       Hicksville, New York

Re: lynx

[Geoff Shang]

Hi,

To read the output of Lynx or pretty much any other application in the 
console, you're going to need to use Speakup's screen review keys.

By default, you can use the numpad 7 and 9 keys to read the previous and 
next line respectively, and 8 to read the current line.  The same logic 
applies to 4 5 and 6 (words) and 1 2 and 3 (characters).  You can use 
numpad-insert plus numpad 9 (page up) to go to the top of the screen, and 
numpad-insert plus numpad-2 (down arrow) to read from the current curso 
position to the bottom of the screen.

To check out what all the speakup keys do, press keypad-insert plus F1 when 
in Speakup and either up and down arrow through the list or try pressing 
keys to see what they do.  Press Space to leave keyboard help.

In lynx, you can use page-down or Space to go to the next screen, and 
page-up or b to go back a page.  As posted already, insert and delete move 
the screen display up and down one line (something I previously didn't 
know).  Home and End go to the first and last screen of a document, as do 
control-A and control-E respectively.  Up and Down arrows move you to the 
next and previous page element (or next and previous line in a multi-line 
edit field), and right arrow follows a link and left goes back unless 
you're in any kind of edit field.

To get a full and hopefully up to date list of keystrokes in lynx, press 
"k" when in lynx.

Note that unless you use a blinux lynx config (wich I did see somewhere but 
don't know where), lynx will not automatically make the cursor track where 
you are in a document.  You need to turn on "show cursor" in the options 
screen which is not exactly straight-forward, or by setting

show_cursor=on

in your .lynxrc config file.

Hope this helps you get started.

Geoff.

Re: lynx

[Janina Sajka]

Geoff's advice is absolutely on the mark. Lynx with Speakup continues to
be a powerful, and very accessible browser. However, you do need to
learn Speakup's screen review commands to use lynx effectively, because
it doesn't work the way Windows screen readers made Internet Explorer
work.

My advice is to start lynx with two key command line options--then make
these your defaults in the Options menu (accessed with by o) so you
don't have to issue this long command every time:

lynx -show_cursor -number_fields

This will cause the system cursor to track your focus on hyperlinks,
which is where you go with up and down arrow, or with TAB and Alt+TAB.
Yes, that's correct, Alt+TAB, and not Shift+TAB, which has always been
the Unix default.

The Lynx for users who are blind document for which you were asking a URI is at:

http://leb.net/blinux/blynx/

You can also access it on the help screen of Lynx, accessible by ?, but
this wouldn't help you if you don't yet understand how to read documents
in lynx.

Janina


Geoff Shang writes:
> Hi,
> 
> To read the output of Lynx or pretty much any other application in the 
> console, you're going to need to use Speakup's screen review keys.
> 
> By default, you can use the numpad 7 and 9 keys to read the previous and 
> next line respectively, and 8 to read the current line.  The same logic 
> applies to 4 5 and 6 (words) and 1 2 and 3 (characters).  You can use 
> numpad-insert plus numpad 9 (page up) to go to the top of the screen, and 
> numpad-insert plus numpad-2 (down arrow) to read from the current curso 
> position to the bottom of the screen.
> 
> To check out what all the speakup keys do, press keypad-insert plus F1 when 
> in Speakup and either up and down arrow through the list or try pressing 
> keys to see what they do.  Press Space to leave keyboard help.
> 
> In lynx, you can use page-down or Space to go to the next screen, and 
> page-up or b to go back a page.  As posted already, insert and delete move 
> the screen display up and down one line (something I previously didn't 
> know).  Home and End go to the first and last screen of a document, as do 
> control-A and control-E respectively.  Up and Down arrows move you to the 
> next and previous page element (or next and previous line in a multi-line 
> edit field), and right arrow follows a link and left goes back unless 
> you're in any kind of edit field.
> 
> To get a full and hopefully up to date list of keystrokes in lynx, press 
> "k" when in lynx.
> 
> Note that unless you use a blinux lynx config (wich I did see somewhere but 
> don't know where), lynx will not automatically make the cursor track where 
> you are in a document.  You need to turn on "show cursor" in the options 
> screen which is not exactly straight-forward, or by setting
> 
> show_cursor=on
> 
> in your .lynxrc config file.
> 
> Hope this helps you get started.
> 
> Geoff.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.202.595.7777;	sip:janina@a11y.org
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://CapitalAccessibility.Com

Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and Canada
Learn more at http://ScreenlessPhone.Com

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

Re: lynx

[Tom Masterson]

The only other caveat with lynx is that like most text browsers that I 
am aware of it doen's handle javascript which means some pages will be 
unusable in part or full depending on the amount of javascript used.

I don't find the file numbering option very useful but that is personal 
preference.

Tom

On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 11:52:11AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Geoff's advice is absolutely on the mark. Lynx with Speakup continues to
> be a powerful, and very accessible browser. However, you do need to
> learn Speakup's screen review commands to use lynx effectively, because
> it doesn't work the way Windows screen readers made Internet Explorer
> work.
> 
> My advice is to start lynx with two key command line options--then make
> these your defaults in the Options menu (accessed with by o) so you
> don't have to issue this long command every time:
> 
> lynx -show_cursor -number_fields
> 
> This will cause the system cursor to track your focus on hyperlinks,
> which is where you go with up and down arrow, or with TAB and Alt+TAB.
> Yes, that's correct, Alt+TAB, and not Shift+TAB, which has always been
> the Unix default.
> 
> The Lynx for users who are blind document for which you were asking a URI is at:
> 
> http://leb.net/blinux/blynx/
> 
> You can also access it on the help screen of Lynx, accessible by ?, but
> this wouldn't help you if you don't yet understand how to read documents
> in lynx.
> 
> Janina
> 
> 
> Geoff Shang writes:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > To read the output of Lynx or pretty much any other application in the 
> > console, you're going to need to use Speakup's screen review keys.
> > 
> > By default, you can use the numpad 7 and 9 keys to read the previous and 
> > next line respectively, and 8 to read the current line.  The same logic 
> > applies to 4 5 and 6 (words) and 1 2 and 3 (characters).  You can use 
> > numpad-insert plus numpad 9 (page up) to go to the top of the screen, and 
> > numpad-insert plus numpad-2 (down arrow) to read from the current curso 
> > position to the bottom of the screen.
> > 
> > To check out what all the speakup keys do, press keypad-insert plus F1 when 
> > in Speakup and either up and down arrow through the list or try pressing 
> > keys to see what they do.  Press Space to leave keyboard help.
> > 
> > In lynx, you can use page-down or Space to go to the next screen, and 
> > page-up or b to go back a page.  As posted already, insert and delete move 
> > the screen display up and down one line (something I previously didn't 
> > know).  Home and End go to the first and last screen of a document, as do 
> > control-A and control-E respectively.  Up and Down arrows move you to the 
> > next and previous page element (or next and previous line in a multi-line 
> > edit field), and right arrow follows a link and left goes back unless 
> > you're in any kind of edit field.
> > 
> > To get a full and hopefully up to date list of keystrokes in lynx, press 
> > "k" when in lynx.
> > 
> > Note that unless you use a blinux lynx config (wich I did see somewhere but 
> > don't know where), lynx will not automatically make the cursor track where 
> > you are in a document.  You need to turn on "show cursor" in the options 
> > screen which is not exactly straight-forward, or by setting
> > 
> > show_cursor=on
> > 
> > in your .lynxrc config file.
> > 
> > Hope this helps you get started.
> > 
> > Geoff.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.202.595.7777;	sip:janina@a11y.org
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://CapitalAccessibility.Com
> 
> Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and Canada
> Learn more at http://ScreenlessPhone.Com
> 
> Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
> Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: lynx

[Daniel Dalton]

On 20/11/2007 3:52 AM, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Geoff's advice is absolutely on the mark. Lynx with Speakup continues to
> be a powerful, and very accessible browser. However, you do need to
> learn Speakup's screen review commands to use lynx effectively, because
> it doesn't work the way Windows screen readers made Internet Explorer
> work.

Ok I think I have worked out bits of it.

> 
> My advice is to start lynx with two key command line options--then make
> these your defaults in the Options menu (accessed with by o) so you
> don't have to issue this long command every time:
> 
> lynx -show_cursor -number_fields
> 
> This will cause the system cursor to track your focus on hyperlinks,
> which is where you go with up and down arrow, or with TAB and Alt+TAB.
> Yes, that's correct, Alt+TAB, and not Shift+TAB, which has always been
> the Unix default.

Ok I'll a tempt to do that thanks.

> 
> The Lynx for users who are blind document for which you were asking a URI is at:
> 
> http://leb.net/blinux/blynx/
> 
> You can also access it on the help screen of Lynx, accessible by ?, but
> this wouldn't help you if you don't yet understand how to read documents
> in lynx.

I think I saw it this morning.

Two more questions:
1. How do I locate and enter info in to fields?
2. How do I navigate with brltty? Just with my thumb keys?

Thanks.

Re: lynx

[Janina Sajka]

Daniel Dalton writes:
> Two more questions:
> 1. How do I locate and enter info in to fields?


Well, this need is why I personally choose the "Links and Form Fields
Are Numbered" setting for the numeric keypad in the Lynx Options screen.
And, it's the reason I gave you a lynx command with two arguments. The
second argument turns this feature on from the command line:

lynx -show_cursor -number_fields

As you've heard from others in this thread, not everyone likes this
feature, but many of us consider it absolutely indispensible. 

In essence -number_fields causes every hyperlink and/or form control to
be assigned a number sequentially. So, even before you navigate the
page, as you just listen to Speakup read it out from top to bottom, you
can spot links and form fields--because Lynx will speak a number before
voicing their text, and the numbers you hear will be sequential starting
at 1, then 2, then 3, etc.

Now that you know this, navigating with up/down arrow (or TAB/Alt+TAB)
becomes highly useful because you always and only ever land on either a
hyperlink or a form field.

*	When you land on a hyperlink, pressing Numpad 5 will read the
*	sequential number Lynx assigned to that hyperlink, plus the left
*	and right brackets that surround the number, and the first word
*	of the hyperlink. To hear this in context, press Numpad 8.

*	When you land on a form field, Numpad 5 will read the sequential
*	number and indicate the underscore char, telling you this is a
*	blank line awaiting your input.

*	Drop down boxes are a tad trickier to understand. You'll hear
*	the sequential number, followed by a second number and then some
*	phrase. The number and phrase you hear is usually 1 and some
*	value, but may be something else. It reflects whiach of several
*	choices the page author has provided as default for that drop
*	down.

	A drop down will be a limited list of things for you to choose
among. It might be a list of States of the U.S., for example. To
activate your ability to set your selection, press enter, then arrow
up/down through the list until you find the selection you want, then
press enter to lock it in. Since this literally a popup box in the
middle of other text already displayed from the page, you'll need to
learn to ignore the "background words" that Speakup will read out. These
will surround the selection option, both before and after it. Speakup
isn't given any programmatic basis to ignore background text. This is
one place where graphical browsers have an edge over Speakup and Lynx,
but a little practice will probably suffice for working with drop downs.

> 2. How do I navigate with brltty? Just with my thumb keys?
> 


Can't help you there. Sorry. A brltty person will need to answer this
one.

Janina

Re: lynx

[Tim Chase]

> second argument turns this feature on from the command line:
> 
> lynx -show_cursor -number_fields

I use these features frequently enough that it's helpful to have 
them in Lynx config file:

   SHOW_CURSOR: TRUE
   DEFAULT_KEYPAD_MODE: LINKS_AND_FIELDS_ARE_NUMBERED

(I like to have both numbered, but if you just want one or the 
other, you can select your preferred variant).

I also like to use vi-keys, which can choke on text-entry fields, 
so I have the following two lines:

   VI_KEYS_ALWAYS_ON: TRUE
   TEXTFIELDS_NEED_ACTIVATION: TRUE

That way, I can skim over all fields with my h/j/k/l keys, and 
then when I get to the field I want, I use <enter> to activate 
the field.  Otherwise, I constantly end up with a string of "j" 
or "k" characters in my text-entry fields.

I tend to fly in advanced mode (rather than novice mode) using

  DEFAULT_USER_MODE: ADVANCED

and it's helpful to know that if you're editing a multi-line 
textbox, you can spawn an external editor.  On my Debian 
installation, that's /usr/bin/sensible-editor which happens to be 
pointed at vim, but you can customize that.

The lines from my lynxrc are in this thread where they were 
discussed previously:

http://www.redhat.com/archives/blinux-list/2005-May/msg00046.html

Because the Lynx config-parser is a bit borked, and reads the 
/etc/lynx.cfg differently from the ~/.lynxrc, I tend to create a 
.lynx.cfg file with the settings I want and then alias "lynx" to 
"lynx -cfg=~/.lynx.cfg"  so it pulls in the settings a .lynxrc 
doesn't respect.

Hope this helps,

-tim

Re: lynx

[Daniel Dalton]

On 21/11/2007 2:22 AM, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> Well, this need is why I personally choose the "Links and Form Fields
> Are Numbered" setting for the numeric keypad in the Lynx Options screen.
> And, it's the reason I gave you a lynx command with two arguments. The
> second argument turns this feature on from the command line:
> 
> lynx -show_cursor -number_fields

How do I get it to automatically do that at startup of lynx? (What do I 
add to my .lynxsrc file?)

Thanks for your help.

Re: lynx

[Tim Chase]

>> lynx -show_cursor -number_fields
> 
> How do I get it to automatically do that at startup of lynx?
> (What do I add to my .lynxsrc file?)

 From within Lynx, you can go to the [O]ptions menu and change the
options for both the "Show Cursor" option and the "Keypad Mode".
  Make sure you've checked the box at the top for "Save Options to
Disk", and then use the "Accept Changes" to write the options to
your ~/.lynxrc

Frustrated that not all options in the /etc/lynx.cfg file can be
controlled/overridden via the .lynxrc, I tend to use

   alias lynx='lynx -cfg=~/.lynx.cfg'

in my .bash_aliases file and then save my modified copy of
/etc/lynx.cfg as ~/.lynx.cfg

That way, I can control things like the colors, the message
timeouts, and the TEXTFIELDS_NEED_ACTIVATION setting which the
.lynxrc file doesn't give you access to.

However, if all you need are the above two items, the .lynxrc
file can control them just fine and uses the [O]ptions interface.

-tim

Re: lynx

[Geoff Shang]

Janina Sajka wrote:

> Since this literally a popup box in the
> middle of other text already displayed from the page, you'll need to
> learn to ignore the "background words" that Speakup will read out. These
> will surround the selection option, both before and after it. Speakup
> isn't given any programmatic basis to ignore background text. This is
> one place where graphical browsers have an edge over Speakup and Lynx,
> but a little practice will probably suffice for working with drop downs.

I notice that more recent versions of Speakup have highlight as a cursor 
tracking option.  Does this cope with the option box problem?  I don't have 
a new enough version on my machine so haven't tested it.

Geoff.

Re: Lynx

[BLINUX Documentation Project]

aloha, luke!

to get lynx 2.4.2, 2.5, or 2.6, go to:

	ftp://ftp2.cc.ukans.edu/pub/lynx

however, i agree with joel--you really don't want to use 2.4.2, especially
since it is riddled with bugs that were fixed in 2.5 and 2.4.2

furthermore, if you are going to compile lynx 2.6, you should also grab
the composite patch, which contains bug-fixes and patches for the 2.6
release...  the composite patch can be found at:

	http://www.mtsu.edu/~ripa0003/lynx.html

lynx-dev has recently organized LIBIDO: the Lynx Initiative for Biniary
Distribution and Openess, through which you can download pre-compiled
versions of lynx, but it is still best to compile your own...  LIBIDO's
home page is:

	http://www.crl.com/~subir/lynx/binaries.html

safe surfing--keep a sharp ear cocked for riptides,
gregory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  electronic archivist and webmaster for The BLINUX Documentation Project
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