* : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question @ Chuck Hallenbeck ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Chuck Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Willem van der Walt; +Cc: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi all, I prefer to remain witgh the use of enter to make adjustments in controls suchaas Master, for instance, which makes a lot of sense given that upward adjustment and downward adjustment are offered as separate items in the menu for that control. Arrowing to the upward item and pressing enter makes the adjustment and leaves the control selected, so that pressing enter repeatedly makes a series of adjustments in the same direction. It's beautiful to see the percent figure change and hear the perceived loudness change in sync with the numeric value. I'm not sure how one would put the entire job of making adjustment onto the arrow keys. Just my $0.02 worth. Chuck -- Here In Northeast Ohio, The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full) If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. Sent from Lucille's missing iPhone. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question Chuck Hallenbeck @ ` Janina Sajka ` Willem van der Walt 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Chuck Hallenbeck, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hmmm, I hadn't considered that simply repeated presses of enter would continue to adjust levels in realtime. That just might be good enough, imo. RE: How to put such behavior on the up/down keys, alsamixer is likely the source to copy from. Janina Chuck Hallenbeck writes: > > Hi all, > > I prefer to remain witgh the use of enter to make adjustments in > controls suchaas Master, for instance, which makes a lot of sense given > that upward adjustment and downward adjustment are offered as separate > items in the menu for that control. Arrowing to the upward item and > pressing enter makes the adjustment and leaves the control selected, > so that pressing enter repeatedly makes a series of adjustments in > the same direction. It's beautiful to see the percent figure change and > hear the perceived loudness change in sync with the numeric value. I'm > not sure how one would put the entire job of making adjustment onto > the arrow keys. > > Just my $0.02 worth. > > Chuck > > > > > -- > Here In Northeast Ohio, The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full) > If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. > Sent from Lucille's missing iPhone. > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question ` Janina Sajka @ ` Willem van der Walt ` Glenn At Home ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Willem van der Walt @ UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi all, Janina, thanks for the suggestion, but no, I am writing this in python, alsamixer is written in C as far as I know. It is just the way I have written the code which kind of precludes the up/down arrow thing, and that I do not really see what is so wrong with the current way things are done. What I might consider doing, would be to replace the two options, one for up and one for down, with one option, e.g. Playback volume 30 percent I can then make it use two other keys, e.g. pageup and pagedown or f2 and f3 to go softer or louder. I am not that keen on doing it, as it deviates from the way things are selected and used throughout the rest of the program. The up/down arrows are already used to move among the options. Left and right arrows would be the obvious choice, but I am using speakup and it will say space if I use them. One can also make the keys configurable later. One needs the percentages when e.g. trying to get a silent soundcard going, and if I take it out there, how would you know at what levels the controls are? Hope this make sens. Willem On Sat, 13 Apr 2019, Janina Sajka wrote: > Hmmm, I hadn't considered that simply repeated presses of enter would > continue to adjust levels in realtime. That just might be good enough, > imo. > > RE: How to put such behavior on the up/down keys, alsamixer is likely > the source to copy from. > > Janina > > Chuck Hallenbeck writes: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I prefer to remain witgh the use of enter to make adjustments in >> controls suchaas Master, for instance, which makes a lot of sense given >> that upward adjustment and downward adjustment are offered as separate >> items in the menu for that control. Arrowing to the upward item and >> pressing enter makes the adjustment and leaves the control selected, >> so that pressing enter repeatedly makes a series of adjustments in >> the same direction. It's beautiful to see the percent figure change and >> hear the perceived loudness change in sync with the numeric value. I'm >> not sure how one would put the entire job of making adjustment onto >> the arrow keys. >> >> Just my $0.02 worth. >> >> Chuck >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Here In Northeast Ohio, The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full) >> If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. >> Sent from Lucille's missing iPhone. >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > -- > > Janina Sajka > > Linux Foundation Fellow > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question ` Willem van der Walt @ ` Glenn At Home ` Willem van der Walt ` Janina Sajka 1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Glenn At Home @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi Willem, Any chance you can do this for ARM as well? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willem van der Walt" <wvdwalt@csir.co.za> Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@linux-speakup.org> Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 10:35 AM Subject: Re: : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question Hi all, Janina, thanks for the suggestion, but no, I am writing this in python, alsamixer is written in C as far as I know. It is just the way I have written the code which kind of precludes the up/down arrow thing, and that I do not really see what is so wrong with the current way things are done. What I might consider doing, would be to replace the two options, one for up and one for down, with one option, e.g. Playback volume 30 percent I can then make it use two other keys, e.g. pageup and pagedown or f2 and f3 to go softer or louder. I am not that keen on doing it, as it deviates from the way things are selected and used throughout the rest of the program. The up/down arrows are already used to move among the options. Left and right arrows would be the obvious choice, but I am using speakup and it will say space if I use them. One can also make the keys configurable later. One needs the percentages when e.g. trying to get a silent soundcard going, and if I take it out there, how would you know at what levels the controls are? Hope this make sens. Willem On Sat, 13 Apr 2019, Janina Sajka wrote: > Hmmm, I hadn't considered that simply repeated presses of enter would > continue to adjust levels in realtime. That just might be good enough, > imo. > > RE: How to put such behavior on the up/down keys, alsamixer is likely > the source to copy from. > > Janina > > Chuck Hallenbeck writes: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I prefer to remain witgh the use of enter to make adjustments in >> controls suchaas Master, for instance, which makes a lot of sense given >> that upward adjustment and downward adjustment are offered as separate >> items in the menu for that control. Arrowing to the upward item and >> pressing enter makes the adjustment and leaves the control selected, >> so that pressing enter repeatedly makes a series of adjustments in >> the same direction. It's beautiful to see the percent figure change and >> hear the perceived loudness change in sync with the numeric value. I'm >> not sure how one would put the entire job of making adjustment onto >> the arrow keys. >> >> Just my $0.02 worth. >> >> Chuck >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Here In Northeast Ohio, The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full) >> If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. >> Sent from Lucille's missing iPhone. >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > -- > > Janina Sajka > > Linux Foundation Fellow > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@linux-speakup.org http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question ` Glenn At Home @ ` Willem van der Walt 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Willem van der Walt @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn At Home, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi Glen, If you have python going and you can install pyalsaaudio, it should work on ARM as is. Kind regards, Willem On Sat, 13 Apr 2019, Glenn At Home wrote: > [The e-mail server of the sender could not be verified (SPF Record)] > > Hi Willem, > Any chance you can do this for ARM as well? > Thanks. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Willem van der Walt" <wvdwalt@csir.co.za> > Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." > <speakup@linux-speakup.org> > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 10:35 AM > Subject: Re: : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question > > > Hi all, > Janina, thanks for the suggestion, but no, I am writing this in python, > alsamixer is written in C as far as I know. > It is just the way I have written the code which kind of precludes the > up/down arrow thing, and that I do not really see what is so wrong with > the current way things are done. > What I might consider doing, would be to replace the two options, one for > up and one for down, with one option, e.g. > Playback volume 30 percent > I can then make it use two other keys, e.g. pageup and pagedown or f2 and > f3 to go softer or louder. > I am not that keen on doing it, as it deviates from the way things are > selected and used throughout the rest of the program. > The up/down arrows are already used to move among the options. > Left and right arrows would be the obvious choice, but I am using speakup > and it will say space if I use them. > One can also make the keys configurable later. > One needs the percentages when e.g. trying to get a silent soundcard > going, and if I take it out there, how would you know at what levels the > controls are? > > Hope this make sens. > Willem > > On Sat, 13 Apr 2019, Janina Sajka wrote: > >> Hmmm, I hadn't considered that simply repeated presses of enter would >> continue to adjust levels in realtime. That just might be good enough, >> imo. >> >> RE: How to put such behavior on the up/down keys, alsamixer is likely >> the source to copy from. >> >> Janina >> >> Chuck Hallenbeck writes: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I prefer to remain witgh the use of enter to make adjustments in >>> controls suchaas Master, for instance, which makes a lot of sense given >>> that upward adjustment and downward adjustment are offered as separate >>> items in the menu for that control. Arrowing to the upward item and >>> pressing enter makes the adjustment and leaves the control selected, >>> so that pressing enter repeatedly makes a series of adjustments in >>> the same direction. It's beautiful to see the percent figure change and >>> hear the perceived loudness change in sync with the numeric value. I'm >>> not sure how one would put the entire job of making adjustment onto >>> the arrow keys. >>> >>> Just my $0.02 worth. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Here In Northeast Ohio, The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full) >>> If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. >>> Sent from Lucille's missing iPhone. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> >> -- >> >> Janina Sajka >> >> Linux Foundation Fellow >> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >> >> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question ` Willem van der Walt ` Glenn At Home @ ` Janina Sajka ` Didier Spaier ` Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Chuck's observation that one can continually press enter to keep raising, or lowering levels sounds good enough to me. I think that's sufficiently performant, so I am no longer thinking your design is at all cumbersome. Color me convinced! <smile> Janina Willem van der Walt writes: > Hi all, > Janina, thanks for the suggestion, but no, I am writing this in python, > alsamixer is written in C as far as I know. > It is just the way I have written the code which kind of precludes the > up/down arrow thing, and that I do not really see what is so wrong with the > current way things are done. > What I might consider doing, would be to replace the two options, one for up > and one for down, with one option, e.g. > Playback volume 30 percent > I can then make it use two other keys, e.g. pageup and pagedown or f2 and f3 > to go softer or louder. > I am not that keen on doing it, as it deviates from the way things are > selected and used throughout the rest of the program. > The up/down arrows are already used to move among the options. > Left and right arrows would be the obvious choice, but I am using speakup > and it will say space if I use them. > One can also make the keys configurable later. > One needs the percentages when e.g. trying to get a silent soundcard going, > and if I take it out there, how would you know at what levels the controls > are? > > Hope this make sens. > Willem > > On Sat, 13 Apr 2019, Janina Sajka wrote: > > > Hmmm, I hadn't considered that simply repeated presses of enter would > > continue to adjust levels in realtime. That just might be good enough, > > imo. > > > > RE: How to put such behavior on the up/down keys, alsamixer is likely > > the source to copy from. > > > > Janina > > > > Chuck Hallenbeck writes: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I prefer to remain witgh the use of enter to make adjustments in > > > controls suchaas Master, for instance, which makes a lot of sense given > > > that upward adjustment and downward adjustment are offered as separate > > > items in the menu for that control. Arrowing to the upward item and > > > pressing enter makes the adjustment and leaves the control selected, > > > so that pressing enter repeatedly makes a series of adjustments in > > > the same direction. It's beautiful to see the percent figure change and > > > hear the perceived loudness change in sync with the numeric value. I'm > > > not sure how one would put the entire job of making adjustment onto > > > the arrow keys. > > > > > > Just my $0.02 worth. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Here In Northeast Ohio, The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full) > > > If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. > > > Sent from Lucille's missing iPhone. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > > > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > -- > > > > Janina Sajka > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question ` Janina Sajka @ ` Didier Spaier ` Willem van der Walt ` Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Didier Spaier @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hello Well, this discussion just reminds me how old I am as I wrote a system specification for the first time 42 years ago... Then things were going this way: requirements > specification > development Now things are going the other way round in many cases <smile> No pun intended, sorry for the digression. Best, Didier On 13/04/2019 21:44, Janina Sajka wrote: > Chuck's observation that one can continually press enter to keep > raising, or lowering levels sounds good enough to me. I think that's > sufficiently performant, so I am no longer thinking your design is at > all cumbersome. Color me convinced! <smile> > > Janina > > Willem van der Walt writes: >> Hi all, >> Janina, thanks for the suggestion, but no, I am writing this in python, >> alsamixer is written in C as far as I know. >> It is just the way I have written the code which kind of precludes the >> up/down arrow thing, and that I do not really see what is so wrong with the >> current way things are done. >> What I might consider doing, would be to replace the two options, one for up >> and one for down, with one option, e.g. >> Playback volume 30 percent >> I can then make it use two other keys, e.g. pageup and pagedown or f2 and f3 >> to go softer or louder. >> I am not that keen on doing it, as it deviates from the way things are >> selected and used throughout the rest of the program. >> The up/down arrows are already used to move among the options. >> Left and right arrows would be the obvious choice, but I am using speakup >> and it will say space if I use them. >> One can also make the keys configurable later. >> One needs the percentages when e.g. trying to get a silent soundcard going, >> and if I take it out there, how would you know at what levels the controls >> are? >> >> Hope this make sens. >> Willem >> >> On Sat, 13 Apr 2019, Janina Sajka wrote: >> >>> Hmmm, I hadn't considered that simply repeated presses of enter would >>> continue to adjust levels in realtime. That just might be good enough, >>> imo. >>> >>> RE: How to put such behavior on the up/down keys, alsamixer is likely >>> the source to copy from. >>> >>> Janina >>> >>> Chuck Hallenbeck writes: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I prefer to remain witgh the use of enter to make adjustments in >>>> controls suchaas Master, for instance, which makes a lot of sense given >>>> that upward adjustment and downward adjustment are offered as separate >>>> items in the menu for that control. Arrowing to the upward item and >>>> pressing enter makes the adjustment and leaves the control selected, >>>> so that pressing enter repeatedly makes a series of adjustments in >>>> the same direction. It's beautiful to see the percent figure change and >>>> hear the perceived loudness change in sync with the numeric value. I'm >>>> not sure how one would put the entire job of making adjustment onto >>>> the arrow keys. >>>> >>>> Just my $0.02 worth. >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Here In Northeast Ohio, The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full) >>>> If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. >>>> Sent from Lucille's missing iPhone. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Speakup mailing list >>>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >>>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Janina Sajka >>> >>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>> >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question ` Didier Spaier @ ` Willem van der Walt 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Willem van der Walt @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Yes, and we had to do deskchecking because computer time was so expensive. I am about eight years behind you though. Regards, Willem On Sat, 13 Apr 2019, Didier Spaier wrote: > [The e-mail server of the sender could not be verified (SPF Record)] > > Hello > > Well, this discussion just reminds me how old I am as I > wrote a system specification for the first time 42 years ago... > > Then things were going this way: > requirements > specification > development > Now things are going the other way round in many cases <smile> > > No pun intended, sorry for the digression. > > Best, > > Didier > > On 13/04/2019 21:44, Janina Sajka wrote: >> Chuck's observation that one can continually press enter to keep >> raising, or lowering levels sounds good enough to me. I think that's >> sufficiently performant, so I am no longer thinking your design is at >> all cumbersome. Color me convinced! <smile> >> >> Janina >> >> Willem van der Walt writes: >>> Hi all, >>> Janina, thanks for the suggestion, but no, I am writing this in python, >>> alsamixer is written in C as far as I know. >>> It is just the way I have written the code which kind of precludes the >>> up/down arrow thing, and that I do not really see what is so wrong with the >>> current way things are done. >>> What I might consider doing, would be to replace the two options, one for up >>> and one for down, with one option, e.g. >>> Playback volume 30 percent >>> I can then make it use two other keys, e.g. pageup and pagedown or f2 and f3 >>> to go softer or louder. >>> I am not that keen on doing it, as it deviates from the way things are >>> selected and used throughout the rest of the program. >>> The up/down arrows are already used to move among the options. >>> Left and right arrows would be the obvious choice, but I am using speakup >>> and it will say space if I use them. >>> One can also make the keys configurable later. >>> One needs the percentages when e.g. trying to get a silent soundcard going, >>> and if I take it out there, how would you know at what levels the controls >>> are? >>> >>> Hope this make sens. >>> Willem >>> >>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2019, Janina Sajka wrote: >>> >>>> Hmmm, I hadn't considered that simply repeated presses of enter would >>>> continue to adjust levels in realtime. That just might be good enough, >>>> imo. >>>> >>>> RE: How to put such behavior on the up/down keys, alsamixer is likely >>>> the source to copy from. >>>> >>>> Janina >>>> >>>> Chuck Hallenbeck writes: >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I prefer to remain witgh the use of enter to make adjustments in >>>>> controls suchaas Master, for instance, which makes a lot of sense given >>>>> that upward adjustment and downward adjustment are offered as separate >>>>> items in the menu for that control. Arrowing to the upward item and >>>>> pressing enter makes the adjustment and leaves the control selected, >>>>> so that pressing enter repeatedly makes a series of adjustments in >>>>> the same direction. It's beautiful to see the percent figure change and >>>>> hear the perceived loudness change in sync with the numeric value. I'm >>>>> not sure how one would put the entire job of making adjustment onto >>>>> the arrow keys. >>>>> >>>>> Just my $0.02 worth. >>>>> >>>>> Chuck >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Here In Northeast Ohio, The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full) >>>>> If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. >>>>> Sent from Lucille's missing iPhone. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Speakup mailing list >>>>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >>>>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Janina Sajka >>>> >>>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>>> >>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: : Using enter or using arrows, that is the question ` Janina Sajka ` Didier Spaier @ ` Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 03:44:20PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > Chuck's observation that one can continually press enter to keep > raising, or lowering levels sounds good enough to me. I think that's > sufficiently performant, so I am no longer thinking your design is at > all cumbersome. Color me convinced! <smile> Sounds good to me too in that case. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
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