Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Adam Myrow]

I got RC3 of Alsa to build by specifying that it only build support for my
sound card.  I did a "./configure --with-sequencer=yes --with-cards=sbawe"
and that left out the offending code.  However, it acts exactly like Beta
12 did.  It still slows the sound down to a crawl randomly, and now I've
figured out that it also randomly makes recordings into noise.  I am
absolutely disgusted with Alsa.  I don't think it's ready for production
and including it in the kernel is a very bad idea IMHO if this is its
current state.  Given that it has had several years to develop, I would
expect something usable by now, but as far as I'm concerned, it is
completely useless.  I don't know how you guys have ever gotten any good
out of the thing.  Maybe it's just broken with the AWE64.

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[jwantz]

Hi Adam,
Actually, I found that 0.5.12 worked better with the AWE64 than any of 
the later releases.  However, I now have 3 machines 2 linux and 1 
Windblows that all use SBLIVE!  Since the SBLIVE! has multi channel 
capability and only sells for about $28.00, I'd recommend replacing your 
AWE64.  I'm running alsa 0.9.0rc3 on my linux machines with the SBLIVE! 
with absolutely no problem.


    Jim Wantz WB0TFK
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Adam Myrow wrote:

> I got RC3 of Alsa to build by specifying that it only build support for my
> sound card.  I did a "./configure --with-sequencer=yes --with-cards=sbawe"
> and that left out the offending code.  However, it acts exactly like Beta
> 12 did.  It still slows the sound down to a crawl randomly, and now I've
> figured out that it also randomly makes recordings into noise.  I am
> absolutely disgusted with Alsa.  I don't think it's ready for production
> and including it in the kernel is a very bad idea IMHO if this is its
> current state.  Given that it has had several years to develop, I would
> expect something usable by now, but as far as I'm concerned, it is
> completely useless.  I don't know how you guys have ever gotten any good
> out of the thing.  Maybe it's just broken with the AWE64.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[shaun_oliver]

Hi,
I've noticed with the awe64 sound card that that can happen.
I've never had any probs when I've used the sb live card.
but, having said that, I'm using an awe64 value at the moment and
haven't found any problems with it.

-- 
Shaun Oliver

 It's multiple choice time...
      What is FORTRAN?
      a: Between thre and fiv tran.
      b: What two computers engage in before they interface.
      c: Ridiculous.

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Kerry Hoath]

The last version of alsa I have messed with is 0.5.12
under the 2.2.x kernel.
I have had thousands of hours of flawless operation from it;
and yes that includes ISA cards.
Have you considered actually emailing the alsa development list or filing a bug report?
Surely bugs do exist in t  he drivers; but if nobody reports them they can
not be fixed.
I do not use ISA cards for sound anymore;
due to the need to allocate isa bounce buffers for dma which can fail if ram
is fragmented.
You can only do dma to t he first 16 megs of memory on the ISA bus.
I have also found creative cards of the AWE32/64 vintage
tend to cut off everything over 18khz or so wh en sampling at 44100.
Sure I have about 5 here; but they all gather dust since new pci cards
can play multiple streams and are ar more cpu efficient than their
ISA cousins.
PCI can also dma to anywhere in the address space so no bounce buffers
in low memory.
I hope your alsa setup works for  you; if not; feel free to buy
the comercial sound drivers t hat work well for many people;
or use the drivers in the kernel.
If you are accidently using 2 8-bit dma channels i.e. dma<4
then you will experience strife.
The AWE 64 needs an 8 and 16-bit channel usually
1 and 5 respectively.
Alsa does work for a lot of people including Alan cox and other
speakup users; so i'd say something is amiss with your
setup hardware or configuration.
Do you have any other busmastering ISA cards in t he system?

Regards, Kerry.
On Fri, Oct 18, 2002 at 07:46:20PM -0500, Adam Myrow wrote:
> I got RC3 of Alsa to build by specifying that it only build support for my
> sound card.  I did a "./configure --with-sequencer=yes --with-cards=sbawe"
> and that left out the offending code.  However, it acts exactly like Beta
> 12 did.  It still slows the sound down to a crawl randomly, and now I've
> figured out that it also randomly makes recordings into noise.  I am
> absolutely disgusted with Alsa.  I don't think it's ready for production
> and including it in the kernel is a very bad idea IMHO if this is its
> current state.  Given that it has had several years to develop, I would
> expect something usable by now, but as far as I'm concerned, it is
> completely useless.  I don't know how you guys have ever gotten any good
> out of the thing.  Maybe it's just broken with the AWE64.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Adam Myrow]

On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Kerry Hoath wrote:

> The last version of alsa I have messed with is 0.5.12
> under the 2.2.x kernel.
> I have had thousands of hours of flawless operation from it;
> and yes that includes ISA cards.

Hmm, do you use Alsa now?  Anyway, I think I will send some questions to
the support team and ask what sorts of things could cause the behavior I'm
experiencing.  For now, I've switched back to the stock drivers, which
work, but have their limits.  Besides not having good full duplex support,
I've found no mixer that lets me unmute and mute the mike so that I can
choose whether I want to monitor what is being received by the mike on the
speakers.  I can tell that Alsa has a lot of potential, but when I posted
that message last night, I was a bit frustrated at my problems.  Sure,
switching to a SB live would probably help out, but this is an old
computer, and all 4 of its PCI slots are currently in use.  I suppose I
could remove the modem since I have cable Internet now, and I've actually
considered doing just that.  However, that is skirting the issue.  Perhaps
the reason that newer versions of Alsa have issues with the AWE64 is
because everybody has stopped using that card.  We'll just see what
the developers say.

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Kerry Hoath]

I use Alsa on all my boxes; 0.5.12
with ES1370 ES1371 ES1373 (ensoniq) cards.
All the ISA stuff has been jammed in boxes since most new pcs I have either have
ISA slots but require bios fiddles to get the interrupts to show
up on the bus or have no ISA at all.

Regards, Kerry.
On Sat, Oct 19, 2002 at 06:15:24AM -0500, Adam Myrow wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Kerry Hoath wrote:
> 
> > The last version of alsa I have messed with is 0.5.12
> > under the 2.2.x kernel.
> > I have had thousands of hours of flawless operation from it;
> > and yes that includes ISA cards.
> 
> Hmm, do you use Alsa now?  Anyway, I think I will send some questions to
> the support team and ask what sorts of things could cause the behavior I'm
> experiencing.  For now, I've switched back to the stock drivers, which
> work, but have their limits.  Besides not having good full duplex support,
> I've found no mixer that lets me unmute and mute the mike so that I can
> choose whether I want to monitor what is being received by the mike on the
> speakers.  I can tell that Alsa has a lot of potential, but when I posted
> that message last night, I was a bit frustrated at my problems.  Sure,
> switching to a SB live would probably help out, but this is an old
> computer, and all 4 of its PCI slots are currently in use.  I suppose I
> could remove the modem since I have cable Internet now, and I've actually
> considered doing just that.  However, that is skirting the issue.  Perhaps
> the reason that newer versions of Alsa have issues with the AWE64 is
> because everybody has stopped using that card.  We'll just see what
> the developers say.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Kerry,

How do you get alsa to support the Ensoniq ES1373? I find no
mention of it in the INSTALL document. Only the ES1370 and
ES1371. Have I overlooked it or is there some trickery at work
here?

Chuck

> I use Alsa on all my boxes; 0.5.12
> with ES1370 ES1371 ES1373 (ensoniq) cards.
> All the ISA stuff has been jammed in boxes since most new pcs I have either have
> ISA slots but require bios fiddles to get the interrupts to show
> up on the bus or have no ISA at all.




-- 
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (99% of Full)
So visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Kerry Hoath]

The es1373 is just a 1371 with extentions.
It is ac97 like the 1371 but has a  higher revision number.
The kernel and t he alsa 1371 driver should support the 1373 as well.
It can't mix sounds like the sb live and only has 2 dac channels
but works well enough. When I power up
the box with the es1373 I can grab the pci data if you need i t.
ES1373 also support digital output if you have the necessary wi ring on
the board; most don't so it is either solder or get a  more capable card.
On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 07:05:20AM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> Kerry,
> 
> How do you get alsa to support the Ensoniq ES1373? I find no
> mention of it in the INSTALL document. Only the ES1370 and
> ES1371. Have I overlooked it or is there some trickery at work
> here?
> 
> Chuck
> 
> > I use Alsa on all my boxes; 0.5.12
> > with ES1370 ES1371 ES1373 (ensoniq) cards.
> > All the ISA stuff has been jammed in boxes since most new pcs I have either have
> > ISA slots but require bios fiddles to get the interrupts to show
> > up on the bus or have no ISA at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (99% of Full)
> So visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Charles Hallenbeck]

I wish I knew what to suggest. I too was just able to compile and
install RC3 and it replaced my Beta11 without a hitch. All my old
scripts for recording and switching sources still work without
modification. My card is an sblive.

Chuck
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Adam Myrow wrote:

> I got RC3 of Alsa to build by specifying that it only build support for my
> sound card.  I did a "./configure --with-sequencer=yes --with-cards=sbawe"
> and that left out the offending code.  However, it acts exactly like Beta
> 12 did.  It still slows the sound down to a crawl randomly, and now I've
> figured out that it also randomly makes recordings into noise.  I am
> absolutely disgusted with Alsa.  I don't think it's ready for production
> and including it in the kernel is a very bad idea IMHO if this is its
> current state.  Given that it has had several years to develop, I would
> expect something usable by now, but as far as I'm concerned, it is
> completely useless.  I don't know how you guys have ever gotten any good
> out of the thing.  Maybe it's just broken with the AWE64.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (97% of Full)
So visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Igor Gueths]

What do you use to play the offending files? Also what cmdline do you use
for arecord when recording files? Do you get xruns during recording? If so
most if not all your recorded data is being lost.

Microsoft dialogue
This company has performed an illegal operation and will be shutdown. If this problem persists, delete Winblows and install Linux. Close button

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Adam Myrow wrote:

> I got RC3 of Alsa to build by specifying that it only build support for my
> sound card.  I did a "./configure --with-sequencer=yes --with-cards=sbawe"
> and that left out the offending code.  However, it acts exactly like Beta
> 12 did.  It still slows the sound down to a crawl randomly, and now I've
> figured out that it also randomly makes recordings into noise.  I am
> absolutely disgusted with Alsa.  I don't think it's ready for production
> and including it in the kernel is a very bad idea IMHO if this is its
> current state.  Given that it has had several years to develop, I would
> expect something usable by now, but as far as I'm concerned, it is
> completely useless.  I don't know how you guys have ever gotten any good
> out of the thing.  Maybe it's just broken with the AWE64.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Adam Myrow]

Most of the odd behavior from Alsa comes when using the OSS emulation.
For example, Speak Freely uses the OSS emulation, and so do most programs
I have.  My suspicion is that if it is indeed a bug in Alsa, it is in that
particular area.

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Hi Adam,

When I recently installed RC3 I also included an install of
alsa-oss-RC1, which was the latest oss simulator available. It is
working fine here with my sblive card.

I had to use three modprobe commands in my modules.conf file: one
for snd-emu10k1 (required by the sblive), a second for
snd-mixer-oss, and a third for snd-pcm-oss. Do you have all three
of those (using the right choice for your awe64)?

Chuck

> Most of the odd behavior from Alsa comes when using the OSS emulation.
> For example, Speak Freely uses the OSS emulation, and so do most programs
> I have.  My suspicion is that if it is indeed a bug in Alsa, it is in that
> particular area.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (98% of Full)
So visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Woops! I meant to say in my /etc/rc.d/rc.modules file, not
modules.conf.


-- 
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (98% of Full)
So visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Adam Myrow]

Wait a second.  Are you saying you had RC3 and RC1 running concurrently?
Yes, I had the right modules loading.  That wasn't the problem.  Again and
again, I hear glowing reports using an SB Live.  It sounds as if the Live
is a very popular card, and thus the driver is well tested.  I had Alsa
set up both in rc.modules and modules.conf.  Both ways produce similar
results.  Here is what my rc.modules for Alsa contained.

#Load Alsa drivers.
/sbin/modprobe snd-sbawe
/sbin/modprobe snd-seq-midi
/sbin/modprobe snd-pcm-oss
/sbin/modprobe snd-seq-oss

Here is my /etc/modules.conf I used which let Alsa load and unload on the
fly.  It differs a bit from the example in that I used a feature called
post-install to run commands after loading the modules since the settings
always go back to muted when the modules unload and reload.  The sfxload
command is a utility to enable Midi support with the AWE cards, although I
seldom need it, it is good to have around.

 alias char-major-116 snd
alias snd-card-0 snd-sbawe
post-install snd-card-0 /usr/sbin/alsactl restore
alias char-major-14 soundcore
alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0
alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss
alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss
post-install sound-service-0-1 /usr/local/bin/sfxload synthgs
alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm-oss
alias sound-service-0-8 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm-oss

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Yes that's right, RC3 drivers, libraries, and utilities, but RC1
oss package.

Here is the piece from my modules.conf:

# now for some of my own modules
/sbin/modprobe snd-emu10k1
/sbin/modprobe snd-mixer-oss
/sbin/modprobe snd-pcm-oss
But I am not using the sequencer or the midid option.

Are you certain you do not need the snd-mixer-oss to be loaded
there?



On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Adam Myrow wrote:

> Wait a second.  Are you saying you had RC3 and RC1 running concurrently?
> Yes, I had the right modules loading.  That wasn't the problem.  Again and
> again, I hear glowing reports using an SB Live.  It sounds as if the Live
> is a very popular card, and thus the driver is well tested.  I had Alsa
> set up both in rc.modules and modules.conf.  Both ways produce similar
> results.  Here is what my rc.modules for Alsa contained.
>
> #Load Alsa drivers.
> /sbin/modprobe snd-sbawe
> /sbin/modprobe snd-seq-midi
> /sbin/modprobe snd-pcm-oss
> /sbin/modprobe snd-seq-oss
>
> Here is my /etc/modules.conf I used which let Alsa load and unload on the
> fly.  It differs a bit from the example in that I used a feature called
> post-install to run commands after loading the modules since the settings
> always go back to muted when the modules unload and reload.  The sfxload
> command is a utility to enable Midi support with the AWE cards, although I
> seldom need it, it is good to have around.
>
>  alias char-major-116 snd
> alias snd-card-0 snd-sbawe
> post-install snd-card-0 /usr/sbin/alsactl restore
> alias char-major-14 soundcore
> alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0
> alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss
> alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss
> post-install sound-service-0-1 /usr/local/bin/sfxload synthgs
> alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm-oss
> alias sound-service-0-8 snd-seq-oss
> alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm-oss
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (98% of Full)
So visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Igor Gueths]

Well I bleieve the latest version of the oss compat lib is rc1.

Microsoft dialogue
This company has performed an illegal operation and will be shutdown. If this problem persists, delete Winblows and install Linux. Close button

On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Adam Myrow wrote:

> Wait a second.  Are you saying you had RC3 and RC1 running concurrently?
> Yes, I had the right modules loading.  That wasn't the problem.  Again and
> again, I hear glowing reports using an SB Live.  It sounds as if the Live
> is a very popular card, and thus the driver is well tested.  I had Alsa
> set up both in rc.modules and modules.conf.  Both ways produce similar
> results.  Here is what my rc.modules for Alsa contained.
>
> #Load Alsa drivers.
> /sbin/modprobe snd-sbawe
> /sbin/modprobe snd-seq-midi
> /sbin/modprobe snd-pcm-oss
> /sbin/modprobe snd-seq-oss
>
> Here is my /etc/modules.conf I used which let Alsa load and unload on the
> fly.  It differs a bit from the example in that I used a feature called
> post-install to run commands after loading the modules since the settings
> always go back to muted when the modules unload and reload.  The sfxload
> command is a utility to enable Midi support with the AWE cards, although I
> seldom need it, it is good to have around.
>
>  alias char-major-116 snd
> alias snd-card-0 snd-sbawe
> post-install snd-card-0 /usr/sbin/alsactl restore
> alias char-major-14 soundcore
> alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0
> alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss
> alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss
> post-install sound-service-0-1 /usr/local/bin/sfxload synthgs
> alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm-oss
> alias sound-service-0-8 snd-seq-oss
> alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm-oss
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Finally got RC3 of Alsa to build and still the same

[Igor Gueths]

Oss emulation never worked for me in rc3 with my driver, so I fell back to
0.5.12a.

Microsoft dialogue
This company has performed an illegal operation and will be shutdown. If this problem persists, delete Winblows and install Linux. Close button

On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Adam Myrow wrote:

> Most of the odd behavior from Alsa comes when using the OSS emulation.
> For example, Speak Freely uses the OSS emulation, and so do most programs
> I have.  My suspicion is that if it is indeed a bug in Alsa, it is in that
> particular area.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>