DSL Providors

DSL Providors

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Hi.  Well I just got the sad news that all Sprint ION customers are
getting the axe.  It was not enough for Sprint to let 6000 employees go
yesterday of which thankfully I was not one of.  Now however they are
turning off the ION service of which I am a customer of.  Is this
personal?  In any case I'll be on the search for a DSL providor in my
area.  On the DSL-HOWTO I saw speakeasy.net and noticed that some
Speakup users are speakeasy.net customers.  So my question is if anyone
knows of any Linux friendly or good dsl providors for that matter that
might provide service in the KC area?  I've already looked at the
providors given on the Howto but so far speakeasy seems to be the only
one.  If at all possible I would like bridging setup instead of the
dreaded pppoe.  Static Ip address would be nice and a bonus but not
absolutely required.

Any ideas folks?

--- Raul A. Gallegos mailto:raul@asmodean.net http://www.asmodean.net
For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell

Re: DSL Providors

[Tommy Moore]

Hi Raul. I don't know if Telocity is in your area but if they are they use 
to be like $40 / month and they give you a static with no pppoe.
The one place I've used them it was rock solid.

Tommy


On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:

> Hi.  Well I just got the sad news that all Sprint ION customers are
> getting the axe.  It was not enough for Sprint to let 6000 employees go
> yesterday of which thankfully I was not one of.  Now however they are
> turning off the ION service of which I am a customer of.  Is this
> personal?  In any case I'll be on the search for a DSL providor in my
> area.  On the DSL-HOWTO I saw speakeasy.net and noticed that some
> Speakup users are speakeasy.net customers.  So my question is if anyone
> knows of any Linux friendly or good dsl providors for that matter that
> might provide service in the KC area?  I've already looked at the
> providors given on the Howto but so far speakeasy seems to be the only
> one.  If at all possible I would like bridging setup instead of the
> dreaded pppoe.  Static Ip address would be nice and a bonus but not
> absolutely required.
> 
> Any ideas folks?
> 
> --- Raul A. Gallegos mailto:raul@asmodean.net http://www.asmodean.net
> For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
> something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
> We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: DSL Providors

[Frank Carmickle]

Hey Raul!

Yep!  Speakeasy is great.  I don't have it personally.  If you look around
there site you'll see why you'll want to go with them.  I know a few folks
who have there service.  They really like it as far as I can tell.  If I
could get there service here I would probably go with them.  I don't think
they offer adsl here currently.

-- 
     Frank Carmickle
phone:     412 761-9568
email:     frankiec@dryrose.com

DSL Providors

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Forget DSL!!! Forget it!!  If you want DSL you better be prepared to
get the business kind because if you get ADSL they will force you into
getting that damned SSG Dashboard crap that can not be accessed in
Lynx w3 or anything but MSIE.  This is their web interface to their
routers.  When you *can* access it with Gates' garbage, they have
decided to write the whole damned thing in Java script.  It takes me
twenty to thirty minutes to reset my DSL when they time it out, which
they do every week or so.  Why does it take that long?  I have to
reboot into Windows.  Then, I have to access the Dashboard.  Then, I
have to find the stupid links to the edit boxes which are not labeled
correctly so that the MSAA works properly.  Then, I have to keep
turning MSAA mode on and off and going through all kinds of
machanations to get the damned thing reset.  Plus, that's not counting
the eleven outages I've had since July 18th!

Not only that, Frontier treats me like a child.  They call their
routers modems, like I'm a five year old kid that can't call going to
the bathroom anything but going weewee.  They think it is always *my*
fault when something goes wrong, it *must* be my fault, I'm the
customer, and the customer is always wrong, doncha know!!  

Those telephone companies, at least Frontier Communications doesn't
know its ass from a hole in the ground.  They can't run their service
correctly, they don't know what's wrong with their equipment when
something breaks, and the whole thing is a SNAFU (situation Normal All
Fucked Up).  Excuse me, I'm sorry folks, I do not usually become so
vulgar, but I am disgusted with DSL, Frontier and the whole
technology.  I'm going to cable on Thursday, and I'm very, very glad
of it.  If you think that DSL can work in Linux, you need to pay for
the expensive kind, cuz the residential ADSL is for the birds!!!

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: DSL Providors

[Shaun Oliver]

don't worry about being volgar ann.
there's many a time when I've wanted to tell my isp admin to go get fucked
and I know him personally and he still thinks I know jack shit.
you've just got to stand up and say hold on a bloody minute! I know just
as much about these things as u do if mot more. says he at his tech
support rep. lol.
just do what I do and do a whois on the domain and ask to speak to the
admin xxxxx and watch their jaw drop.


-- 


Shaun

I never made a mistake in my life.
I thought I did once, but I was wrong.
                -- Lucy Van Pelt

email: shauno@goanna.net.au
icq: 76958435

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Forget DSL!!! Forget it!!  If you want DSL you better be prepared to
> get the business kind because if you get ADSL they will force you into
> getting that damned SSG Dashboard crap that can not be accessed in
> Lynx w3 or anything but MSIE.  This is their web interface to their
> routers.  When you *can* access it with Gates' garbage, they have
> decided to write the whole damned thing in Java script.  It takes me
> twenty to thirty minutes to reset my DSL when they time it out, which
> they do every week or so.  Why does it take that long?  I have to
> reboot into Windows.  Then, I have to access the Dashboard.  Then, I
> have to find the stupid links to the edit boxes which are not labeled
> correctly so that the MSAA works properly.  Then, I have to keep
> turning MSAA mode on and off and going through all kinds of
> machanations to get the damned thing reset.  Plus, that's not counting
> the eleven outages I've had since July 18th!
> 
> Not only that, Frontier treats me like a child.  They call their
> routers modems, like I'm a five year old kid that can't call going to
> the bathroom anything but going weewee.  They think it is always *my*
> fault when something goes wrong, it *must* be my fault, I'm the
> customer, and the customer is always wrong, doncha know!!  
> 
> Those telephone companies, at least Frontier Communications doesn't
> know its ass from a hole in the ground.  They can't run their service
> correctly, they don't know what's wrong with their equipment when
> something breaks, and the whole thing is a SNAFU (situation Normal All
> Fucked Up).  Excuse me, I'm sorry folks, I do not usually become so
> vulgar, but I am disgusted with DSL, Frontier and the whole
> technology.  I'm going to cable on Thursday, and I'm very, very glad
> of it.  If you think that DSL can work in Linux, you need to pay for
> the expensive kind, cuz the residential ADSL is for the birds!!!
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> 

Re: DSL Providors

[Rodney Clowdus]

Thanks for describing to us the shit that it truly is.  We are thinking
about moving to a small town and I just learned that the telephone
company provides DSL service but I was wondering if I would have trouble
as you so wonderfully described Ann.  But it seems there has got to be
someway that all this shit can be bypassed so we can get to the milk.  Any
ideas out there folks?
Rodney

The Weaving Beaver
rclowdus@kcnet.com
"Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
"Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Forget DSL!!! Forget it!!  If you want DSL you better be prepared to
> get the business kind because if you get ADSL they will force you into
> getting that damned SSG Dashboard crap that can not be accessed in
> Lynx w3 or anything but MSIE.  This is their web interface to their
> routers.  When you *can* access it with Gates' garbage, they have
> decided to write the whole damned thing in Java script.  It takes me
> twenty to thirty minutes to reset my DSL when they time it out, which
> they do every week or so.  Why does it take that long?  I have to
> reboot into Windows.  Then, I have to access the Dashboard.  Then, I
> have to find the stupid links to the edit boxes which are not labeled
> correctly so that the MSAA works properly.  Then, I have to keep
> turning MSAA mode on and off and going through all kinds of
> machanations to get the damned thing reset.  Plus, that's not counting
> the eleven outages I've had since July 18th!
>
> Not only that, Frontier treats me like a child.  They call their
> routers modems, like I'm a five year old kid that can't call going to
> the bathroom anything but going weewee.  They think it is always *my*
> fault when something goes wrong, it *must* be my fault, I'm the
> customer, and the customer is always wrong, doncha know!!
>
> Those telephone companies, at least Frontier Communications doesn't
> know its ass from a hole in the ground.  They can't run their service
> correctly, they don't know what's wrong with their equipment when
> something breaks, and the whole thing is a SNAFU (situation Normal All
> Fucked Up).  Excuse me, I'm sorry folks, I do not usually become so
> vulgar, but I am disgusted with DSL, Frontier and the whole
> technology.  I'm going to cable on Thursday, and I'm very, very glad
> of it.  If you think that DSL can work in Linux, you need to pay for
> the expensive kind, cuz the residential ADSL is for the birds!!!
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> 			Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: DSL Providors

[djc]

I'm sure sorry that your so upset Anne. I run dsl successfully off my linux
under RedHat. It runs great out here as far as linux goes. Different
companies use different types of software. You mentioned Dashboard whatever
that is. Never heard of it. Pacific Bell and Sbc are using the pppoe with
enternet300 software. All these companies seem to have outages of one kind
or another. Anyway good luck and I hope the cable will work much better for
you. The shame of all these companies and their outages go is the bill just
keeps on comin'. They don't give us credit. I've had to ring sbc on a few
occassions and while they were slow to check in to the problem they are at
least nice folks for the most part.

		     Msn or mailto:djc2@pacbell.net

     I C Q Number is: 4781694

     Join Me On Testpattern Radio on Saturday Evenings.

     http://www.thetestpattern.com for the Schedule and Information.

Re: DSL Providors

[Lawrence Baggett]

Rodney,
We have been using DSL service from QWEST for a year and a half
now.  I won't say we haven't had some occasional problems, but nothing
like what poor Ann describes.
They don't time us out ever; they don't seem to force us to
deal with java or anything like that; my lynx seems to work fine.
Don't take this as any guarantee, but maybe your experience
won't be like hers.
Good luck!

Larry

Re: DSL Providors

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Ann, those are definitely good points to consider.  It really is too bad
you have had such an aweful experience.  From my perspective though I've
had better luck with dsl since I first used it in late 1997.  Without
getting into a drawn out debate as to which is better between cable or
dsl I will say this.  The two biggest deciding factors from my
experience in the isp world on whether people like dsl or cable is the
first time installation.  If you've had nothing but problems getting dsl
from the get go you won't want it.  If you've had problems with the
cable providers or have to subscribe to higher tv plans you won't want
it either.  Then there are the technicalities of cable vs dsl which I
don't want to get into either.  Basically what it comes down to is that
one will use what ever is best for them and least hastle to get support
on.  The dsl services I"ve had since 1997 never required me to configure
any routers for it to work except once and that was a Cisco 675 adsl
bridge router which had a serial command line interface.  I've had very
good experiences with both dsl and cable so don't have anything against
either.

My situation however is this.  I wish to go with dsl because for me it's
been the least problematic and also because in the room where my
computer equipment is located cannot have a cable jack installed.  So
even if I didn't like dsl I would have to get it or run a cable from
another room into this one and I'm not prepaired to do that.

Any providor should not act this way as you describe but it's a sad
truth that it happens.  People here in KC use southwestern bell a lot
for dsl and they are so big as part of the sbc group that it takes for
ever to get tech support and they always start by assuming it is your
fault.  What you have to remember is most of the time you are talking to
a novice person working to pay for school or because there is nothing
better.  What makes it worse is most of them have never heard of any OS
except Windows.  I'm not trying to offend anyone if there are list
members who are tech support persons for isp's.  But this is my
experiences I'm sharing.

In short Ann, if you have better luck with cable, then go for it.  I
would do the same if I was in your shoes from what you describe.  Both
dsl and cable are good means of access when it comes down to it.  One
thing I'll give cable though is it's easier to troubleshoot than dsl.
This isn't so much of an opinion rather the truth as I see it from
having worked in both fields.  Currently I am a sysadmin for Sprint's
Broadband Wireless service and the troubleshooting that system is very
similar to cable.

Best regards.

PS.  Road Runner is the cable isp in my area through Time Warner.  And
if it was not for my particular setup I would just go and get it
installed in half an hour because it takes around that much to install.
And this half hour is including the travel time going to the office and
picking up a cable modem from them. *smile*.

Ann Parsons said the following on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 06:46:20AM -0400:
> Hi all,
> 
> Forget DSL!!! Forget it!!  If you want DSL you better be prepared to
> get the business kind because if you get ADSL they will force you into
> getting that damned SSG Dashboard crap that can not be accessed in
> Lynx w3 or anything but MSIE.  This is their web interface to their
> routers.  When you *can* access it with Gates' garbage, they have
> decided to write the whole damned thing in Java script.  It takes me
> twenty to thirty minutes to reset my DSL when they time it out, which
> they do every week or so.  Why does it take that long?  I have to
> reboot into Windows.  Then, I have to access the Dashboard.  Then, I
> have to find the stupid links to the edit boxes which are not labeled
> correctly so that the MSAA works properly.  Then, I have to keep
> turning MSAA mode on and off and going through all kinds of
> machanations to get the damned thing reset.  Plus, that's not counting
> the eleven outages I've had since July 18th!
> 
> Not only that, Frontier treats me like a child.  They call their
> routers modems, like I'm a five year old kid that can't call going to
> the bathroom anything but going weewee.  They think it is always *my*
> fault when something goes wrong, it *must* be my fault, I'm the
> customer, and the customer is always wrong, doncha know!!  
> 
> Those telephone companies, at least Frontier Communications doesn't
> know its ass from a hole in the ground.  They can't run their service
> correctly, they don't know what's wrong with their equipment when
> something breaks, and the whole thing is a SNAFU (situation Normal All
> Fucked Up).  Excuse me, I'm sorry folks, I do not usually become so
> vulgar, but I am disgusted with DSL, Frontier and the whole
> technology.  I'm going to cable on Thursday, and I'm very, very glad
> of it.  If you think that DSL can work in Linux, you need to pay for
> the expensive kind, cuz the residential ADSL is for the birds!!!
> 
> Ann P.
> 

Re: DSL Providors

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Rodney.  I would suggest you looking into whether both dsl and cable are
an option.  This way you can at least have a choice.  If dsl is the only
one in town it will take longer than setting up cable but as I stated in
my previous post both are good.  What you can expect from both types
though is poor tech support.  If you get good tech support and a dsl
line installed in 2 weeks then you are flying and will probably have no
problems.

Rodney Clowdus said the following on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 09:26:43AM
-0500: > Thanks for describing to us the shit that it truly is.  We are
thinking > about moving to a small town and I just learned that the
telephone > company provides DSL service but I was wondering if I would
have trouble > as you so wonderfully described Ann.  But it seems there
has got to be > someway that all this shit can be bypassed so we can get
to the milk.  Any > ideas out there folks? > Rodney > > > Hi all, > > >


For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell

Re: DSL Providors

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Raul:

While my email address doesn't reflect it, I am a satisfied speakeasy 
customer. My advice is to look no further.

First of all, speakeasy explicitly supports linux clients. They even have 
linux specific HOWTO files on their help pages.

You can certainly get static IP from speakeasy. I have several, actually.

The provisioning process was fully accessible. I was able to fill out the 
order form online, and I was able to set up daily notifications of 
progress on my order via email.

Best of all, I can tell you, after two months only of actual use, that 
I've been getting pretty much the bandwidth I'm paying for. I could not 
have said that about my former provider.

The only bad news, imho, is that speakeasy has recently rebuilt their 
customer support web pages with javascript. Not very lynx friendly, I'm 
afraid.

 On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Raul A. 
Gallegos wrote:

> Hi.  Well I just got the sad news that all Sprint ION customers are
> getting the axe.  It was not enough for Sprint to let 6000 employees go
> yesterday of which thankfully I was not one of.  Now however they are
> turning off the ION service of which I am a customer of.  Is this
> personal?  In any case I'll be on the search for a DSL providor in my
> area.  On the DSL-HOWTO I saw speakeasy.net and noticed that some
> Speakup users are speakeasy.net customers.  So my question is if anyone
> knows of any Linux friendly or good dsl providors for that matter that
> might provide service in the KC area?  I've already looked at the
> providors given on the Howto but so far speakeasy seems to be the only
> one.  If at all possible I would like bridging setup instead of the
> dreaded pppoe.  Static Ip address would be nice and a bonus but not
> absolutely required.
> 
> Any ideas folks?
> 
> --- Raul A. Gallegos mailto:raul@asmodean.net http://www.asmodean.net
> For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
> something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
> We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp

Re: DSL Providors

[Janina Sajka]

Not true, Ann. Just not true.

At least, it's not true of my provider, speakeasy.net, and I happen to 
know other providers local to the Washington DC area where what you say is 
also not true.

So, I guess we're finding out that one should not generalize from limited 
experience.
 On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Forget DSL!!! Forget it!!  If you want DSL you better be prepared to
> get the business kind because if you get ADSL they will force you into
> getting that damned SSG Dashboard crap that can not be accessed in
> Lynx w3 or anything but MSIE.  This is their web interface to their
> routers.  When you *can* access it with Gates' garbage, they have
> decided to write the whole damned thing in Java script.  It takes me
> twenty to thirty minutes to reset my DSL when they time it out, which
> they do every week or so.  Why does it take that long?  I have to
> reboot into Windows.  Then, I have to access the Dashboard.  Then, I
> have to find the stupid links to the edit boxes which are not labeled
> correctly so that the MSAA works properly.  Then, I have to keep
> turning MSAA mode on and off and going through all kinds of
> machanations to get the damned thing reset.  Plus, that's not counting
> the eleven outages I've had since July 18th!
> 
> Not only that, Frontier treats me like a child.  They call their
> routers modems, like I'm a five year old kid that can't call going to
> the bathroom anything but going weewee.  They think it is always *my*
> fault when something goes wrong, it *must* be my fault, I'm the
> customer, and the customer is always wrong, doncha know!!  
> 
> Those telephone companies, at least Frontier Communications doesn't
> know its ass from a hole in the ground.  They can't run their service
> correctly, they don't know what's wrong with their equipment when
> something breaks, and the whole thing is a SNAFU (situation Normal All
> Fucked Up).  Excuse me, I'm sorry folks, I do not usually become so
> vulgar, but I am disgusted with DSL, Frontier and the whole
> technology.  I'm going to cable on Thursday, and I'm very, very glad
> of it.  If you think that DSL can work in Linux, you need to pay for
> the expensive kind, cuz the residential ADSL is for the birds!!!
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp

Re: DSL Providors

[Janina Sajka]

Rodney:

If you live in an area where your only broadband connectivity options 
force you into a service which will only work with Microslop, you might 
have a most interesting and useful Sec. 255 complaint with the FCC.

If anyone wants to pursue such a thing, contact me off list.

 On 
Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Rodney Clowdus wrote:

> Thanks for describing to us the shit that it truly is.  We are thinking
> about moving to a small town and I just learned that the telephone
> company provides DSL service but I was wondering if I would have trouble
> as you so wonderfully described Ann.  But it seems there has got to be
> someway that all this shit can be bypassed so we can get to the milk.  Any
> ideas out there folks?
> Rodney
> 
> The Weaving Beaver
> rclowdus@kcnet.com
> "Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
> "Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."
> 
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Ann Parsons wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Forget DSL!!! Forget it!!  If you want DSL you better be prepared to
> > get the business kind because if you get ADSL they will force you into
> > getting that damned SSG Dashboard crap that can not be accessed in
> > Lynx w3 or anything but MSIE.  This is their web interface to their
> > routers.  When you *can* access it with Gates' garbage, they have
> > decided to write the whole damned thing in Java script.  It takes me
> > twenty to thirty minutes to reset my DSL when they time it out, which
> > they do every week or so.  Why does it take that long?  I have to
> > reboot into Windows.  Then, I have to access the Dashboard.  Then, I
> > have to find the stupid links to the edit boxes which are not labeled
> > correctly so that the MSAA works properly.  Then, I have to keep
> > turning MSAA mode on and off and going through all kinds of
> > machanations to get the damned thing reset.  Plus, that's not counting
> > the eleven outages I've had since July 18th!
> >
> > Not only that, Frontier treats me like a child.  They call their
> > routers modems, like I'm a five year old kid that can't call going to
> > the bathroom anything but going weewee.  They think it is always *my*
> > fault when something goes wrong, it *must* be my fault, I'm the
> > customer, and the customer is always wrong, doncha know!!
> >
> > Those telephone companies, at least Frontier Communications doesn't
> > know its ass from a hole in the ground.  They can't run their service
> > correctly, they don't know what's wrong with their equipment when
> > something breaks, and the whole thing is a SNAFU (situation Normal All
> > Fucked Up).  Excuse me, I'm sorry folks, I do not usually become so
> > vulgar, but I am disgusted with DSL, Frontier and the whole
> > technology.  I'm going to cable on Thursday, and I'm very, very glad
> > of it.  If you think that DSL can work in Linux, you need to pay for
> > the expensive kind, cuz the residential ADSL is for the birds!!!
> >
> > Ann P.
> >
> > --
> > 			Ann K. Parsons
> > email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
> > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp

Re: DSL Providors

[Buddy Brannan]

*LOL* Formerly working in tech support, I wasn't offended by your
comments, Raul...Right on, right on, right on. There's some good tech
support people, and then there are others that are a complete waste of
a chair, but they fill the chair, so. ...
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV    | From the pines down to the projects,
Email: davros@ycardz.com | Life pushes up through the cracks.
Phone: (972) 276-6360    | And it's only going forward,
ICQ: 36621210            | And it's never going back.--Small Potatoes

Re: DSL Providors

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Rodney, what I'd do if I were you is find out if you have to go
through the dashboard.  If you do not, it may be an option for you.
All I can tell you, is caveat emptor! 

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: DSL Providors

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Glad it works for you.  You mean you do not have to reset your DSL?
That's super.  This crap I have is for the birds.  

Yes, eleven outages since July 18th.  that means that there has been
an outage most every week.  I'm so disgusted I could spit nails!

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: DSL Providors

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Excellent post this.  I dunnow what Frontier is doing with their
equipment but they do not know how to operate it.  Frontier is
notorious for having unreliable service when it comes to computer
communications.  I was with their dialup some time back, and they
didn't even know how to operate *it* properly.  I should have known
not to get myself stuck with this garbage.  

I researched the sisco 677, which is what I have.  The company has
chosen to use the web interface rather than the serial one.  when I
had the timerity to ask them about this, they said no, it was
impossible to do this for me.  I had to use the web interface.

If it had only been the access issue, I might have let it go, grumbled
and complained about resetting the DSL and all, but having eleven
outages in three months is unacceptable.  

thing is, it wasn't my ISP's fault, it was Frontier's fault.  My ISP,
Eznet, bought into Frontier DSL and they are selling it.  I didn't
want to change my email address, so I went with DSL, thinking that it
was the best thing to do.  Well, you know what happened.  I'm always
on the net.  I download large files.  I need to get my email.  I will
be teaching online.  I can not have a service which is unreliable.  

So, I am switching to cable.  I trust that it will be OK.  I am paying
the extra money in order to keep my ISP.  I decided that my peace of
mind and lack of frustration are worth the money it is going to take
to keep both things.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: DSL Providors

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Janina, glad it's working for you!  I wish mine were, but it isn't.
So, my advice is caveat emptor.  Find out as much as you can.

Boy, they know about Linux?  Wow!  

that's super news to hear.  Glad that all the DSL technology is not
the same!

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: DSL Providors

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

As I say, Janina, if it works for you, and if it is different, great!
Caveat emptor!  Find out more before you get into this.  If you can
get what Janina has, go for it.  If you only get the garbage I have,
then go cable!

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: DSL Providors

[Janina Sajka]

Cavet emptor indeed.

I think it's good to remember that these are the same folks that like to 
call around the dinner hour selling long distance. It's actually a fairly 
sleezy business, very often.
 On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Janina, glad it's working for you!  I wish mine were, but it isn't.
> So, my advice is caveat emptor.  Find out as much as you can.
> 
> Boy, they know about Linux?  Wow!  
> 
> that's super news to hear.  Glad that all the DSL technology is not
> the same!
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp

Re: DSL Providors

[Rodney Clowdus]

Ann I really like the "caveat emptor" expression.  I had to use my dict
linux dictionary to find the meaning and just goes to show that a lot can
be said in two words.  Thanks for the advice.  Hopefully they do not force
me to use the dashboard with all those glittering idiot lights.  I have
yet to try DSL but I have been holding off till all the pros and cons have
been sorted through.  I'm wondering if the telephone  company will know
that I'm talking about when I ask them about this  dashboard crap.  They
might go benarkey if I mention Linux.  It's caveat emptor time!
Rodney

The Weaving Beaver
rclowdus@kcnet.com
"Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
"Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Rodney, what I'd do if I were you is find out if you have to go
> through the dashboard.  If you do not, it may be an option for you.
> All I can tell you, is caveat emptor!
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> 			Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: DSL Providors

[Rodney Clowdus]

Thanks Larry for the advice.  If I move to this small town USA I would be
only about two block from the local telephone company which operates the
DSL service as well as a super fast telephone line connection that the
realtor told me about.  Here in Raytown I can only get about 28k on my
dial up connection.  When I used to live in a small town USA near the
telephone company I got 56k speed.  I'm wondering if dial up connection
speeds have gone up over the last year or so.  When the realtor mentioned
super fast telephone service I was wondering how fast can dial up
connections go up to these days.
Rodney

The Weaving Beaver
rclowdus@kcnet.com
"Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
"Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Lawrence Baggett wrote:

> Rodney,
> We have been using DSL service from QWEST for a year and a half
> now.  I won't say we haven't had some occasional problems, but nothing
> like what poor Ann describes.
> They don't time us out ever; they don't seem to force us to
> deal with java or anything like that; my lynx seems to work fine.
> Don't take this as any guarantee, but maybe your experience
> won't be like hers.
> Good luck!
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: DSL Providors

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Janina, Thanks for the tips.  So far speakeasy.net looks like the
leading isp I'll end up going with.  I spoke to a rep and he didn't
frown upon me mentioning Linux.  Only thing I was not too pleased with
is the prices.  $49.95/mo for dynamic IP plus $10.00/mo more for a
static bridged ip.  Also, the installation if done via the self-install
kit is $99.00 after rebate which means I must pay $249.99 at front.  The
downloads speads I'm elligable for are 608 kbps down and 128 kbps up.
Again, not what I'm hoping ofor at that price...  If nothing else
presents itself I'll go with them if not for the pirce at least for
their rep.

Janina Sajka said the following on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 11:27:25AM -0400:
> Hi, Raul:
> 
> While my email address doesn't reflect it, I am a satisfied speakeasy 
> customer. My advice is to look no further.
> 
> First of all, speakeasy explicitly supports linux clients. They even have 
> linux specific HOWTO files on their help pages.
> 
> You can certainly get static IP from speakeasy. I have several, actually.
> 
> The provisioning process was fully accessible. I was able to fill out the 
> order form online, and I was able to set up daily notifications of 
> progress on my order via email.

--- Raul A. Gallegos mailto:raul@asmodean.net http://www.asmodean.net
For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell

Re: DSL Providors

[Gregory Nowak]

Dial-up speed will probably not go up in the near future
because the fcc limits 56k speeds to 53k max,
and because 56k technology is at its peak.
Greg


On Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 02:54:32PM -0500, Rodney Clowdus wrote:
> Thanks Larry for the advice.  If I move to this small town USA I would be
> only about two block from the local telephone company which operates the
> DSL service as well as a super fast telephone line connection that the
> realtor told me about.  Here in Raytown I can only get about 28k on my
> dial up connection.  When I used to live in a small town USA near the
> telephone company I got 56k speed.  I'm wondering if dial up connection
> speeds have gone up over the last year or so.  When the realtor mentioned
> super fast telephone service I was wondering how fast can dial up
> connections go up to these days.
> Rodney
> 
> The Weaving Beaver
> rclowdus@kcnet.com
> "Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
> "Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."
> 
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Lawrence Baggett wrote:
> 
> > Rodney,
> > We have been using DSL service from QWEST for a year and a half
> > now.  I won't say we haven't had some occasional problems, but nothing
> > like what poor Ann describes.
> > They don't time us out ever; they don't seem to force us to
> > deal with java or anything like that; my lynx seems to work fine.
> > Don't take this as any guarantee, but maybe your experience
> > won't be like hers.
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: DSL Providors

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Rodney Clowdus said the following on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 02:54:32PM -0500:
> dial up connection.  When I used to live in a small town USA near the
> telephone company I got 56k speed.  I'm wondering if dial up connection
> speeds have gone up over the last year or so.  When the realtor mentioned

Actually what you probably got was 53.3 kbps speed.  There is an FCC
regulation although I can't remember which that only allows modem speeds
on dialup analog lines to be as fast as 53.3 kbps.

--- Raul A. Gallegos mailto:raul@asmodean.net http://www.asmodean.net
For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell

Re: DSL Providors

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

>>>>> "Rodney" == Rodney Clowdus <rclowdus@kcnet.com> writes:

    Rodney> Ann I really like the "caveat emptor" expression.  I had
    Rodney> to use my dict linux dictionary to find the meaning and
    Rodney> just goes to show that a lot can be said in two words.


Glad you could find it.  It's actually not English.  It's Latin, and
roughly translated is:  buyer beware, or be warned.  a caveat is a
warning or caution.  Sometimes you'll see it in a sentence as the
first word followed by a comma, which is sort of like.  Warning,
danger ahead. 

    Rodney> Thanks for the advice.  Hopefully they do not force me to
    Rodney> use the dashboard with all those glittering idiot lights.
    Rodney> I have yet to try DSL but I have been holding off till all
    Rodney> the pros and cons have been sorted through.  I'm wondering
    Rodney> if the telephone company will know that I'm talking about
    Rodney> when I ask them about this dashboard crap.  

Well, ask them if the interface to the "modem" is by the web.  Or, "Is
the way I connect to the "modem", is that through the web?"  Or, "Do I
have to adjust or reset my DSL, and if I do, do I have to use the web
to do it?"  Use words of one syllable or less.  They might get it
then.

    Rodney> They might go
    Rodney> benarkey if I mention Linux.  It's caveat emptor time!


Yes, they may very well indeed go binarky if you mention Linux.  Best
not to confuse the poor little darlings.  

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: DSL Providors

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Raul:

Yes, I went round and round on similar issues. I think it comes down to 
you pay for quality. Speakeasy seems to be quality.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:

> Janina, Thanks for the tips.  So far speakeasy.net looks like the
> leading isp I'll end up going with.  I spoke to a rep and he didn't
> frown upon me mentioning Linux.  Only thing I was not too pleased with
> is the prices.  $49.95/mo for dynamic IP plus $10.00/mo more for a
> static bridged ip.  Also, the installation if done via the self-install
> kit is $99.00 after rebate which means I must pay $249.99 at front.  The
> downloads speads I'm elligable for are 608 kbps down and 128 kbps up.
> Again, not what I'm hoping ofor at that price...  If nothing else
> presents itself I'll go with them if not for the pirce at least for
> their rep.
> 
> Janina Sajka said the following on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 11:27:25AM -0400:
> > Hi, Raul:
> > 
> > While my email address doesn't reflect it, I am a satisfied speakeasy 
> > customer. My advice is to look no further.
> > 
> > First of all, speakeasy explicitly supports linux clients. They even have 
> > linux specific HOWTO files on their help pages.
> > 
> > You can certainly get static IP from speakeasy. I have several, actually.
> > 
> > The provisioning process was fully accessible. I was able to fill out the 
> > order form online, and I was able to set up daily notifications of 
> > progress on my order via email.
> 
> --- Raul A. Gallegos mailto:raul@asmodean.net http://www.asmodean.net
> For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
> something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
> We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp

Re: DSL Providors

[Janina Sajka]

PS: The self-install was a breeze. I unpacked the box and never worried
about reading any slip of paper. I already knew my ip, dns, and gateway
because I got them in email. So, I just hooked up the cables and restarted
networking. What plug was what was very self-evident. Bingo, I had a
connection. Piece of cake..


-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp

Re: DSL Providors

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Are they ardball about having an existing working phone line?  Reason I
ask is because if I don't find a local phone company other than
southwestern bell I may just live off my cell phone?  When I had
Earthlink/Mindspring.com dsl service late last year it was on a data
line that Covad installed completely seperate from my swbell line.
People who don't understand dsl will say that you have to have a working
dialtone in order to get dsl but it's not true.  So wonder if
speakeasy.net is that way.  I can alsways call and ask but wondered if
anyone knew.

Janina Sajka said the following on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 05:13:40PM -0400:
> PS: The self-install was a breeze. I unpacked the box and never worried
> about reading any slip of paper. I already knew my ip, dns, and gateway
> because I got them in email. So, I just hooked up the cables and restarted
> networking. What plug was what was very self-evident. Bingo, I had a
> connection. Piece of cake..
> 
> 
> -- 

--- Raul A. Gallegos mailto:raul@asmodean.net http://www.asmodean.net
For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell

Re: DSL Providors

[Janina Sajka]

Well, speakeasy is a covad reseller, so maybe they'll do that for you. I 
 don't recall that I pressed the point, though I may still want to do that 
myself.
 On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:

> Are they ardball about having an existing working phone line?  Reason I
> ask is because if I don't find a local phone company other than
> southwestern bell I may just live off my cell phone?  When I had
> Earthlink/Mindspring.com dsl service late last year it was on a data
> line that Covad installed completely seperate from my swbell line.
> People who don't understand dsl will say that you have to have a working
> dialtone in order to get dsl but it's not true.  So wonder if
> speakeasy.net is that way.  I can alsways call and ask but wondered if
> anyone knew.
> 
> Janina Sajka said the following on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 05:13:40PM -0400:
> > PS: The self-install was a breeze. I unpacked the box and never worried
> > about reading any slip of paper. I already knew my ip, dns, and gateway
> > because I got them in email. So, I just hooked up the cables and restarted
> > networking. What plug was what was very self-evident. Bingo, I had a
> > connection. Piece of cake..
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> 
> --- Raul A. Gallegos mailto:raul@asmodean.net http://www.asmodean.net
> For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
> something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
> We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp

Re: DSL Providors

[Shaun Oliver]

Hi rodney,
with dialup, or at least in my experience,
the fastest upload you can get is 33.6 and if you're really lucky, you'll
manage to get the 50.6 K download.
however, practically this is not the case. I think it would be much better
to have good throughput rather than fast linespeed. connecting at
40,000Bps doesn't always mean you get excellent download rates.
As long as you remember 2 things here, 1. the internet is only as fast as
your weakest link, and 2. good throughput rather than fast linespeed, 
rememver these and you won't have too much to complain about. providing of
course your isp know what they are doing.


-- 


Shaun

I never made a mistake in my life.
I thought I did once, but I was wrong.
                -- Lucy Van Pelt

email: shauno@goanna.net.au
icq: 76958435

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Rodney Clowdus wrote:

> Thanks Larry for the advice.  If I move to this small town USA I would be
> only about two block from the local telephone company which operates the
> DSL service as well as a super fast telephone line connection that the
> realtor told me about.  Here in Raytown I can only get about 28k on my
> dial up connection.  When I used to live in a small town USA near the
> telephone company I got 56k speed.  I'm wondering if dial up connection
> speeds have gone up over the last year or so.  When the realtor mentioned
> super fast telephone service I was wondering how fast can dial up
> connections go up to these days.
> Rodney
> 
> The Weaving Beaver
> rclowdus@kcnet.com
> "Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
> "Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."
> 
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Lawrence Baggett wrote:
> 
> > Rodney,
> > We have been using DSL service from QWEST for a year and a half
> > now.  I won't say we haven't had some occasional problems, but nothing
> > like what poor Ann describes.
> > They don't time us out ever; they don't seem to force us to
> > deal with java or anything like that; my lynx seems to work fine.
> > Don't take this as any guarantee, but maybe your experience
> > won't be like hers.
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: DSL Providors

[Kirk Wood]

Umm, sounds like you need a new provider Ann. To state that all providers
are alike would be akin to my making assumptions that you are just like my
roommate just because your blind.

I have helped a couple people setup and use Southwest Bell dsl. It uses
ppoe and works fine with non m$ stuff. You can also get a business account
using adsl that doesn't make use of the ppoe. You can get static or
dynamic ip addresses if you choose ppoe.

Considering that there are three other brands that are all the same
company I would recomend you look into them. They also give you a dialup
to use when you are away from your dsl or it isn't working. Their web site
is www.swbell.com. 

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
	- President George Bush

Re: DSL Providors

[Janina Sajka]

This is very good advice. Another, very simple, way to understand this 
is that whatever connection speed you get is only your maximum speed. 
The rest of what happens will most surely fall below that maximum 
sometimes at best.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Shaun Oliver wrote:

> Hi rodney,
> with dialup, or at least in my experience,
> the fastest upload you can get is 33.6 and if you're really lucky, you'll
> manage to get the 50.6 K download.
> however, practically this is not the case. I think it would be much better
> to have good throughput rather than fast linespeed. connecting at
> 40,000Bps doesn't always mean you get excellent download rates.
> As long as you remember 2 things here, 1. the internet is only as fast as
> your weakest link, and 2. good throughput rather than fast linespeed, 
> rememver these and you won't have too much to complain about. providing of
> course your isp know what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp

Re: DSL Providors

[Ann Parsons]

Hi Kirk,

I've already signed up for cable.  Thanks.

This way I will not have to change my email address.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: DSL Providors

[Richard Villa]

I've been using DSL for the past 6 months and except for a couple of outages
due to work being done on the phone lines, have had great results.

The issue that I have with cable is that if you have a lot of users on the
same line, your speed is reduced by quite a lot.

Richard

Re: DSL Providors

[Amanda Lee]

But what about the security issues of Cable vs. DSL???  I don't understand
why you all who have far more knowledge of networks, etc., than I do,
would ever recommend Cable???

Amanda



On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:

> Ann, those are definitely good points to consider.  It really is too bad
> you have had such an aweful experience.  From my perspective though I've
> had better luck with dsl since I first used it in late 1997.  Without
> getting into a drawn out debate as to which is better between cable or
> dsl I will say this.  The two biggest deciding factors from my
> experience in the isp world on whether people like dsl or cable is the
> first time installation.  If you've had nothing but problems getting dsl
> from the get go you won't want it.  If you've had problems with the
> cable providers or have to subscribe to higher tv plans you won't want
> it either.  Then there are the technicalities of cable vs dsl which I
> don't want to get into either.  Basically what it comes down to is that
> one will use what ever is best for them and least hastle to get support
> on.  The dsl services I"ve had since 1997 never required me to configure
> any routers for it to work except once and that was a Cisco 675 adsl
> bridge router which had a serial command line interface.  I've had very
> good experiences with both dsl and cable so don't have anything against
> either.
>
> My situation however is this.  I wish to go with dsl because for me it's
> been the least problematic and also because in the room where my
> computer equipment is located cannot have a cable jack installed.  So
> even if I didn't like dsl I would have to get it or run a cable from
> another room into this one and I'm not prepaired to do that.
>
> Any providor should not act this way as you describe but it's a sad
> truth that it happens.  People here in KC use southwestern bell a lot
> for dsl and they are so big as part of the sbc group that it takes for
> ever to get tech support and they always start by assuming it is your
> fault.  What you have to remember is most of the time you are talking to
> a novice person working to pay for school or because there is nothing
> better.  What makes it worse is most of them have never heard of any OS
> except Windows.  I'm not trying to offend anyone if there are list
> members who are tech support persons for isp's.  But this is my
> experiences I'm sharing.
>
> In short Ann, if you have better luck with cable, then go for it.  I
> would do the same if I was in your shoes from what you describe.  Both
> dsl and cable are good means of access when it comes down to it.  One
> thing I'll give cable though is it's easier to troubleshoot than dsl.
> This isn't so much of an opinion rather the truth as I see it from
> having worked in both fields.  Currently I am a sysadmin for Sprint's
> Broadband Wireless service and the troubleshooting that system is very
> similar to cable.
>
> Best regards.
>
> PS.  Road Runner is the cable isp in my area through Time Warner.  And
> if it was not for my particular setup I would just go and get it
> installed in half an hour because it takes around that much to install.
> And this half hour is including the travel time going to the office and
> picking up a cable modem from them. *smile*.
>
> Ann Parsons said the following on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 06:46:20AM -0400:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Forget DSL!!! Forget it!!  If you want DSL you better be prepared to
> > get the business kind because if you get ADSL they will force you into
> > getting that damned SSG Dashboard crap that can not be accessed in
> > Lynx w3 or anything but MSIE.  This is their web interface to their
> > routers.  When you *can* access it with Gates' garbage, they have
> > decided to write the whole damned thing in Java script.  It takes me
> > twenty to thirty minutes to reset my DSL when they time it out, which
> > they do every week or so.  Why does it take that long?  I have to
> > reboot into Windows.  Then, I have to access the Dashboard.  Then, I
> > have to find the stupid links to the edit boxes which are not labeled
> > correctly so that the MSAA works properly.  Then, I have to keep
> > turning MSAA mode on and off and going through all kinds of
> > machanations to get the damned thing reset.  Plus, that's not counting
> > the eleven outages I've had since July 18th!
> >
> > Not only that, Frontier treats me like a child.  They call their
> > routers modems, like I'm a five year old kid that can't call going to
> > the bathroom anything but going weewee.  They think it is always *my*
> > fault when something goes wrong, it *must* be my fault, I'm the
> > customer, and the customer is always wrong, doncha know!!
> >
> > Those telephone companies, at least Frontier Communications doesn't
> > know its ass from a hole in the ground.  They can't run their service
> > correctly, they don't know what's wrong with their equipment when
> > something breaks, and the whole thing is a SNAFU (situation Normal All
> > Fucked Up).  Excuse me, I'm sorry folks, I do not usually become so
> > vulgar, but I am disgusted with DSL, Frontier and the whole
> > technology.  I'm going to cable on Thursday, and I'm very, very glad
> > of it.  If you think that DSL can work in Linux, you need to pay for
> > the expensive kind, cuz the residential ADSL is for the birds!!!
> >
> > Ann P.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: DSL Providors

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Amanda.  Having cable, dsl, dialup, t1, isdn, etc is really about the
same really as far as security.  It's like a front door.  If you leave
the front door open you can expect anyone to walk in.  With internet
access regardless of type as long as you take steps to insure your
security you will be fine.  Windows users use zonealarm for 1 pc and
advanced firewall routers for other types of setups.  Linux users can
use ipchains along with utilities such as portsentry to monitor their
computers.  Cable or dsl isn't any more or less secure than anything
else really.  Some may argue this point but I've used both enough to
have been able to make this opinion.

Good luck.

Amanda Lee said the following on Sun, Oct 21, 2001 at 10:47:29PM -0400:
> But what about the security issues of Cable vs. DSL???  I don't understand
> why you all who have far more knowledge of networks, etc., than I do,
> would ever recommend Cable???
> 
> Amanda
> 
> 
> 
For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell

Re: DSL Providors

[Frank Carmickle]

Good points here Raul

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:

> Amanda.  Having cable, dsl, dialup, t1, isdn, etc is really about the
> same really as far as security.  It's like a front door.  If you leave
> the front door open you can expect anyone to walk in.  With internet

Well cable used to be a real bitch because your interface saw all the
traffic to and from the gateway for many class C subnets in some
cases.  Mostly now the cable modems that are used have some basic routing
in them so that when you tcpdump from that interface you don't see
everyones traffic for 18 miles.

> access regardless of type as long as you take steps to insure your
> security you will be fine.  Windows users use zonealarm for 1 pc and
> advanced firewall routers for other types of setups.  Linux users can
> use ipchains along with utilities such as portsentry to monitor their

Iptables is much cooler.  

-- 
     Frank Carmickle
phone:     412 761-9568
email:     frankiec@dryrose.com

Re: DSL Providors

[Amanda Lee]

Okay I know but it requires more work on the part of the user who
generally isn't even sophisticated enough to install a an anti-virus
program.  I have heard of Cable users really getting the ole hack job! and
not as often with DSL.  The other issue I have is that the load on the
network really doesn't provide the user with the speed that Cable
providers make claims of.

Also beware of providers who claim that a  telephone line is qualified
for DSL.  I've been going round and round with Verizon DSL and the Central
Office which serves the lines to my home.
I've been trying for over a year to get DSL and I live in a highly
populated area.  Although all indications are that I should be able to
obtain DSL on my telephone line, the communications between certain
organizations for Verizon, who is also my employer haha! are basically out
to lunch!  I can get a small discount but I'm more than fed-up!  If I find
that another provider can bring DSL to the twisted pair here, I'll be
shocked.  But you may, through no fault of your own, be told your
elligible when indeed your line is:

too far from the C.O.;
the line has load coils or other components or equipment which prevents
Broadband signals;
and anything else! imaginable to human kind.

Amanda

Re: DSL Providors

[Tommy Moore]

Actually Raul cable isn't less secure because its a fast open medium or 
anything, its less secure because for the most part its not switched and 
it operates like standard ethernet.
This means that someone on the segment can turn on an ethernet sniffer 
such as dsniff and grab url's mail messages and all kinds of stuff just by 
putting their network card in to promiscuous mode.

Tommy


On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:

> Amanda.  Having cable, dsl, dialup, t1, isdn, etc is really about the
> same really as far as security.  It's like a front door.  If you leave
> the front door open you can expect anyone to walk in.  With internet
> access regardless of type as long as you take steps to insure your
> security you will be fine.  Windows users use zonealarm for 1 pc and
> advanced firewall routers for other types of setups.  Linux users can
> use ipchains along with utilities such as portsentry to monitor their
> computers.  Cable or dsl isn't any more or less secure than anything
> else really.  Some may argue this point but I've used both enough to
> have been able to make this opinion.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Amanda Lee said the following on Sun, Oct 21, 2001 at 10:47:29PM -0400:
> > But what about the security issues of Cable vs. DSL???  I don't understand
> > why you all who have far more knowledge of networks, etc., than I do,
> > would ever recommend Cable???
> > 
> > Amanda
> > 
> > 
> > 
> For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
> something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
> We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: DSL Providors

[Frank Carmickle]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Tommy Moore wrote:

> Actually Raul cable isn't less secure because its a fast open medium or 
> anything, its less secure because for the most part its not switched and 
> it operates like standard ethernet.
> This means that someone on the segment can turn on an ethernet sniffer 
> such as dsniff and grab url's mail messages and all kinds of stuff just by 
> putting their network card in to promiscuous mode.

See my previous message.  This isn't the case in new subscriptions.

-- 
     Frank Carmickle
phone:     412 761-9568
email:     frankiec@dryrose.com

Re: DSL Providors

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Your point is well taken, Amanda.  However I think I have solved the
security problems pretty well.  First, I have my Linux set so that
nobody can log in as root unless they have an account on my system and
they know the PW.  Second, I have Black Ice on the Windows side.  It
seems to be doing its thing.  Actually, if you run your DSL all the
time like I do, the same security problems present themselves.  third,
when I get a little money, I'm going to buy a router/hub that is going
to act as the link between my computers and the outside world.  You
must give any people you want on your system a login and PW on this
router,/hub, and nobody can get in otherwise.  

Most of the problems come via Gates' Garbage folks who want to log
into your system.  Since Gates' garbage can't even *see* linux, most
of the intermediate threats to security are solved right then and
there.  Don' worry, we've got it all worked out.    I appreciate your
warnings, though.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: DSL Providors

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Well, maybe the cable companies ought to recommend stuff, but they're
just as uninformed as are their users.  I think, Amanda, that it is
the user's responsibility to learn something about the technology
he/she is using.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: DSL Providors

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Amanda.

Amanda Lee said the following on Sun, Oct 21, 2001 at 11:32:27PM -0400:
> Okay I know but it requires more work on the part of the user who
> generally isn't even sophisticated enough to install a an anti-virus
> program.  I have heard of Cable users really getting the ole hack job! and
> not as often with DSL.  The other issue I have is that the load on the
> network really doesn't provide the user with the speed that Cable
> providers make claims of.
> 
These are good points.  Part of this is because of what Frank states in
an earlier message that cable modems used to allow you to see everyone
on your segment.  This added to the poor security.  I remember a friend
of mine telling me he saw a neighbor of his had a 20 gig hard drive and
so when my friend would download mp3's he would store them on that
unknowing neighbor's hard drive until he burned them to a cd. *lol* talk
about free on line storage.  If my friend would have been malicious he
could have fdisk on that person's hard drive.  So yes I agree that it's
less secure like that but I think now a-days things are much better.  As
far as not being very technical that is why you can ask us geaks
especially if you have Linux, we can just remotely go in and setup
ipchains or iptables and get you all setup.

> Also beware of providers who claim that a  telephone line is qualified
> for DSL.  I've been going round and round with Verizon DSL and the Central
> Office which serves the lines to my home.

This is one of my biggest problems with southwestern bell.  I live 8000
feet from the c/o and last year they first told me I qualified, then
they sent me the speedstream box, then they said I didn't qualify due to
distance and poor lines.  Then they said I did, then I didn't.  So I
gave up and got Earthlink dsl.  They installed my service within 15 days
and it worked perfectly.  Only beef I have with dynamic ip addressing is
ppp oe, I feel it's crap.  So after Earthlink DSL I got Sprint ION which
still uses Earthlink for it's internet portion but it's static IP and
it's bridged instead of pppoe.  But the whole reason why this thread
started was because Sprint ION is no more. sniff sniff.

--- Raul A. Gallegos mailto:raul@asmodean.net http://www.asmodean.net
For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals..  Then
something happened, which unleashed the power of our imagination...
We learned to talk...  Pink Floyd - The Division Bell

Re: DSL Providors

[Kirk Wood]

The security issues are really quite simple. The internet is insecure. As
soon as people start realizing this we can move on.

There is a great deal made about people being able to easily snoop the
packets on cable. While this might be theory, it isn't practice. I have
hooked up a sniffer. I see everyone's arp packets and those packets
destined to one of the two ip addresses that are hooked to the
"modem". The reason is that the cable "modem" only forwards traffic bound
for mac addresses that it has communicated with on the ethernet side.

Now the further truth is that ethernet is the most common form of
networking arround. Yes, all packets are observable if someone wants to
take the effort to do so. Then again, it is much easier to intercept your
cordless telephone. It is almost as easy to intercept your celular
phone. And yet people gab here without concern for security. If you are
really concerned, then just don't get on the net.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
	- President George Bush

Re: DSL Providors

[Amanda Lee]

Thank you for your points because if I can't get onto DSL here, will just
contact ComKrap I'mean Comcast and go for Cable Modem until DSL is a
happnin' thing at my house.  We have Winblows boxes in the house but if I
put the linux box on first and use it as my primary server, then seems
I've got most of it covered unless I can't get ComKrap to see my linux
box.  I'm  probably saying a lot in error here because I am rery
uninformed about most of this.  So appreciate your input as well and it's
great that we have such a helpful way to network.

Amanda Lee



On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Your point is well taken, Amanda.  However I think I have solved the
> security problems pretty well.  First, I have my Linux set so that
> nobody can log in as root unless they have an account on my system and
> they know the PW.  Second, I have Black Ice on the Windows side.  It
> seems to be doing its thing.  Actually, if you run your DSL all the
> time like I do, the same security problems present themselves.  third,
> when I get a little money, I'm going to buy a router/hub that is going
> to act as the link between my computers and the outside world.  You
> must give any people you want on your system a login and PW on this
> router,/hub, and nobody can get in otherwise.
>
> Most of the problems come via Gates' Garbage folks who want to log
> into your system.  Since Gates' garbage can't even *see* linux, most
> of the intermediate threats to security are solved right then and
> there.  Don' worry, we've got it all worked out.    I appreciate your
> warnings, though.
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> 			Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: DSL Providors

[Amanda Lee]

This is why I use Digital Service for wireless phones and will rarely use
analog cellular unless it's an emergency.

Other point is not to use cordless phones that are not Digital Spread
Spectrum (DSS).

Of course it is possible to hack into anything but making the technology
more complex in it's protocol decreases the likelihood.

Amanda Lee



On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Kirk Wood wrote:

> The security issues are really quite simple. The internet is insecure. As
> soon as people start realizing this we can move on.
>
> There is a great deal made about people being able to easily snoop the
> packets on cable. While this might be theory, it isn't practice. I have
> hooked up a sniffer. I see everyone's arp packets and those packets
> destined to one of the two ip addresses that are hooked to the
> "modem". The reason is that the cable "modem" only forwards traffic bound
> for mac addresses that it has communicated with on the ethernet side.
>
> Now the further truth is that ethernet is the most common form of
> networking arround. Yes, all packets are observable if someone wants to
> take the effort to do so. Then again, it is much easier to intercept your
> cordless telephone. It is almost as easy to intercept your celular
> phone. And yet people gab here without concern for security. If you are
> really concerned, then just don't get on the net.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> "When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
> a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
> 	- President George Bush
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: DSL Providors

[Kirk Wood]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
> These are good points.  Part of this is because of what Frank states in
> an earlier message that cable modems used to allow you to see everyone
> on your segment.  This added to the poor security.  I remember a friend
> of mine telling me he saw a neighbor of his had a 20 gig hard drive and
> so when my friend would download mp3's he would store them on that
> unknowing neighbor's hard drive until he burned them to a cd. *lol* talk
> about free on line storage.  If my friend would have been malicious he
> could have fdisk on that person's hard drive.  So yes I agree that it's
> less secure like that but I think now a-days things are much better.  As
> far as not being very technical that is why you can ask us geaks
> especially if you have Linux, we can just remotely go in and setup
> ipchains or iptables and get you all setup.

First, it is untrue that he could have used fdisk. He could have erased
files, but not used fdsik. On annother note, this neighbor's drive was
available to **Everyone** on the internet. And guess what? If you enable
file sharing on a DSL connection you have the same thing. This has nothing
to do with the connection. Again, all internet connections are insecure
unless your behind a firewall.

Now here is something to think about. I know four people with long term
broadband connections. Three of us have cable and one has DSL. And the one
with DSL is the only one to be hacked. So does this prove DSL is more
insecure? If not, then all the personal stories (aside from being mostly
bullshit) don't prove anything one way or another.

If you are moronic and have a connection long enough you will get
burned. Just as if you open every damn email attachment that comes along
and have the most common software you will get virus infected and send off
the virus to all the poor saps in your address book. Oh my god, this can
happen faster with broadband. Congress should do something.

Since most on this list are looking to put a server on the net, I wonder
why this interest in a supposed sense of security.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
	- President George Bush

Re: DSL Providors

[Kirk Wood]

If you don't know what you are doing, it would be best to invest $100 in a
broadband firewall. Linksys and some others make them. You can get them
either with or without a built in hub.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
	- President George Bush

Re: DSL Providors

[Raul A . Gallegos]

cpt.kirk@1tree.net said the following on Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 11:06:08AM -0500:
> I would recomend you read up on security. This is one of the leading
> reasons why there are so many security holes and breaches. The reverse is
> true. Make it simpler and the security is easier. Use a corded phone and
> they have to tap the wires. Disconnect your computer from the internet and
> it is much more secure without any additional steps. Technology gives a
> false sense of security.

This reminds me of a technical support call I once dealt with when I
used to do tech support for the broadband wireless service in Denver at
the time called wantweb.net.  The guy asked me what I recommended as the
best form of security for his internet connection.  I told him that if
he removed the physical layer then he would have a 100% guarantee no one
would ever get in.  This was after he had told me he was very
knowledgible in networking yet he didn't get my joke of the physical
layer.  He actually asked me what was that?  I said your ethernet cable.
Remove that and you have 100% guarantee.

Raul A. Gallegos -- Sprint BWG Systems Administration
Network Operations Center 9300 Metcalf Ave. Overland Park, KS 66212
Office:913/534.5603	PCS:913/488.3011
mailto:raul.a.gallegos@mail.sprint.com

Re: DSL Providors

[Amanda Lee]

Yes but ...

A corded phone isn't very secure either because if you have a connection
point outside of your home, guess what!???

If somebody wants to tap your pair(s) anywhere outside guess what???
I have a scanner which will receive analog cellular which was
manufactured before  law was passed prohibiting scanners to be sold which
don't trap out that
particular segment.  However, we all know that in most cases, a scanner
can be modified to re-instate the cellular phone frequencies!
However, it is harder to decode a digital signal and most persons who are
scan buffs wouldn't invest nor take the time to bother.  Have you ever
listened to a digital CDMA or similar signal?  Ha!
Yes a typical 900MHZ cordless or other device can be monitored on any
scanner which will receive that frequency range.  But if it is a device
which uses DSS, that protocol although yes, as I said, could be decoded.
However, as I also said, would require much more sophistication on the
part of the hacker.  They obviously have more time and money and
definitely not much of a life!

Amanda Lee

Re: DSL Providors

[Kirk Wood]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Amanda Lee wrote:
> This is why I use Digital Service for wireless phones and will rarely use
> analog cellular unless it's an emergency.

Yet another falsehood. These are only more secure in that there are not
ready made scanners to listen in. But guess what? There are tools to
listen in and if you have a scanner nerd in your area they are listening.
 
> Other point is not to use cordless phones that are not Digital Spread
> Spectrum (DSS).

This offers a little protection. But only a little. Again, the phones use
a very easy to crack spreading scheme. The point of the scheme most phones
use is interferance resistance and the making it harder to listen is a
side benefit. Most are easily tracked if they catch the begining of the
call.

> Of course it is possible to hack into anything but making the technology
> more complex in it's protocol decreases the likelihood.

I would recomend you read up on security. This is one of the leading
reasons why there are so many security holes and breaches. The reverse is
true. Make it simpler and the security is easier. Use a corded phone and
they have to tap the wires. Disconnect your computer from the internet and
it is much more secure without any additional steps. Technology gives a
false sense of security.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
	- President George Bush

Re: DSL Providors

[Amanda Lee]

Yeah buddy!

Take away that physical layer and you have your bomb shelter ...  Well
almost!  That's provided absolutely nothing can penetrate that thick
outter shell.  Who said "nerer"???  Not me!  But I think we're getting way
off course here because I was talking in more general terms and not about
the minute details of utilizing some technologies which do offer more
security over having absolutely none at all which you definitely do not
when you utilize analog cellular phones and analog cordless phones and
nope! I don't trust a corded phone anymore than I trust n analog device.
But put a good lock on the door and it will keep most thieves out!

Amanda Lee



On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Raul A . Gallegos wrote:

> cpt.kirk@1tree.net said the following on Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 11:06:08AM -0500:
> > I would recomend you read up on security. This is one of the leading
> > reasons why there are so many security holes and breaches. The reverse is
> > true. Make it simpler and the security is easier. Use a corded phone and
> > they have to tap the wires. Disconnect your computer from the internet and
> > it is much more secure without any additional steps. Technology gives a
> > false sense of security.
>
> This reminds me of a technical support call I once dealt with when I
> used to do tech support for the broadband wireless service in Denver at
> the time called wantweb.net.  The guy asked me what I recommended as the
> best form of security for his internet connection.  I told him that if
> he removed the physical layer then he would have a 100% guarantee no one
> would ever get in.  This was after he had told me he was very
> knowledgible in networking yet he didn't get my joke of the physical
> layer.  He actually asked me what was that?  I said your ethernet cable.
> Remove that and you have 100% guarantee.
>
> Raul A. Gallegos -- Sprint BWG Systems Administration
> Network Operations Center 9300 Metcalf Ave. Overland Park, KS 66212
> Office:913/534.5603	PCS:913/488.3011
> mailto:raul.a.gallegos@mail.sprint.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
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> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: DSL Providors

[Rodney Clowdus]

Just wondering Kirk if the broadband firewall is better than the software
firewall that I activated when I installed Suse linux.  I did not know
what a firewall was until I found linux and til you mentioned the
broadband firewall I was under the assumption that a firewall was basicly
a software.  At the local linux meetings I attend I hear the folks talk
about firewall with a passion.  Next time I'll ask them if they are
talking about software firewall or hardware firewall.  I guess it's about
time I learn about this firewall thing.  I was wondering also how can I
test to see if my software firewall is working or not.  Do I give
permission for another hacker to try and break into my computer?  This
string sure has been educational thus far.
Rodney

The Weaving Beaver
rclowdus@kcnet.com
"Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
"Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Kirk Wood wrote:

> If you don't know what you are doing, it would be best to invest $100 in a
> broadband firewall. Linksys and some others make them. You can get them
> either with or without a built in hub.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> "When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
> a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
> 	- President George Bush
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: DSL Providors

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.  I just started using Comcast in early August.  I had to learn about
DHCP and I can't use there web sight in Linux, but I like the service.
I've been having problems with the Cable modem but they're working on it.
I had DSL with bellsouth 2 years ago.  I can't really compare them 
because I was using Windows 95 back then.  Bellsouth changed my IP every
3 days.

          Kenny

On Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 10:59:43AM -0400, Amanda Lee wrote:
> Thank you for your points because if I can't get onto DSL here, will just
> contact ComKrap I'mean Comcast and go for Cable Modem until DSL is a
> happnin' thing at my house.  We have Winblows boxes in the house but if I
> put the linux box on first and use it as my primary server, then seems
> I've got most of it covered unless I can't get ComKrap to see my linux
> box.  I'm  probably saying a lot in error here because I am rery
> uninformed about most of this.  So appreciate your input as well and it's
> great that we have such a helpful way to network.
> 
> Amanda Lee
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Ann Parsons wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Your point is well taken, Amanda.  However I think I have solved the
> > security problems pretty well.  First, I have my Linux set so that
> > nobody can log in as root unless they have an account on my system and
> > they know the PW.  Second, I have Black Ice on the Windows side.  It
> > seems to be doing its thing.  Actually, if you run your DSL all the
> > time like I do, the same security problems present themselves.  third,
> > when I get a little money, I'm going to buy a router/hub that is going
> > to act as the link between my computers and the outside world.  You
> > must give any people you want on your system a login and PW on this
> > router,/hub, and nobody can get in otherwise.
> >
> > Most of the problems come via Gates' Garbage folks who want to log
> > into your system.  Since Gates' garbage can't even *see* linux, most
> > of the intermediate threats to security are solved right then and
> > there.  Don' worry, we've got it all worked out.    I appreciate your
> > warnings, though.
> >
> > Ann P.
> >
> > --
> > 			Ann K. Parsons
> > email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
> > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

firewalls

[Kirk Wood]

I don't really know if a hardware solution is better then the firewall you
activated. Certainly at some point all firewalls have software.

It is quite possible to have a robust firwall with just linux. In fact,
you can create one with ipchains. Just the same, you can create an
insecure firewall with software. You can go to the shields up web site and
they will give you a basic idea of what you have available to scipt
kiddies.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
	- President George Bush

Re: firewalls

[Rodney Clowdus]

I went to the shields up web site and it's very educational.  Thanks for
the info.  It seems from what I'm learning that it's easier to secure a
linux box than a windows box.  Well, it looks like I have another subject
to learn about... ipchains.

The Weaving Beaver
rclowdus@kcnet.com
"Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
"Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Kirk Wood wrote:

> I don't really know if a hardware solution is better then the firewall you
> activated. Certainly at some point all firewalls have software.
>
> It is quite possible to have a robust firwall with just linux. In fact,
> you can create one with ipchains. Just the same, you can create an
> insecure firewall with software. You can go to the shields up web site and
> they will give you a basic idea of what you have available to scipt
> kiddies.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> "When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
> a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
> 	- President George Bush
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: firewalls

[William Hubbs]

Hi all,

What is the URL for this web site?

Thanks,

William

On Tue, Oct 23, 2001 at 12:24:30AM -0500, Rodney Clowdus wrote:
> I went to the shields up web site and it's very educational.  Thanks for
> the info.  It seems from what I'm learning that it's easier to secure a
> linux box than a windows box.  Well, it looks like I have another subject
> to learn about... ipchains.
> 
> The Weaving Beaver
> rclowdus@kcnet.com
> "Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
> "Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."
> 
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Kirk Wood wrote:
> 
> > I don't really know if a hardware solution is better then the firewall you
> > activated. Certainly at some point all firewalls have software.
> >
> > It is quite possible to have a robust firwall with just linux. In fact,
> > you can create one with ipchains. Just the same, you can create an
> > insecure firewall with software. You can go to the shields up web site and
> > they will give you a basic idea of what you have available to scipt
> > kiddies.
> >
> > =======
> > Kirk Wood
> > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> >
> > "When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
> > a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
> > 	- President George Bush
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: firewalls

[Rodney Clowdus]

I went to www.google.com and look up "shields up"  I found many sites that
deal with shields up and firewall info in general.

The Weaving Beaver
rclowdus@kcnet.com
"Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
"Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."

On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, William Hubbs wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> What is the URL for this web site?
>
> Thanks,
>
> William
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2001 at 12:24:30AM -0500, Rodney Clowdus wrote:
> > I went to the shields up web site and it's very educational.  Thanks for
> > the info.  It seems from what I'm learning that it's easier to secure a
> > linux box than a windows box.  Well, it looks like I have another subject
> > to learn about... ipchains.
> >
> > The Weaving Beaver
> > rclowdus@kcnet.com
> > "Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
> > "Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."
> >
> > On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Kirk Wood wrote:
> >
> > > I don't really know if a hardware solution is better then the firewall you
> > > activated. Certainly at some point all firewalls have software.
> > >
> > > It is quite possible to have a robust firwall with just linux. In fact,
> > > you can create one with ipchains. Just the same, you can create an
> > > insecure firewall with software. You can go to the shields up web site and
> > > they will give you a basic idea of what you have available to scipt
> > > kiddies.
> > >
> > > =======
> > > Kirk Wood
> > > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> > >
> > > "When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
> > > a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."
> > > 	- President George Bush
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: firewalls

[djc]

The main site is:

www.grc.com


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 10/23/01 at 11:46 AM Rodney Clowdus wrote:

>I went to www.google.com and look up "shields up"  I found many sites that
>deal with shields up and firewall info in general.
>
>The Weaving Beaver
>rclowdus@kcnet.com
>"Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
>"Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."
>
>On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, William Hubbs wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> What is the URL for this web site?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> William
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2001 at 12:24:30AM -0500, Rodney Clowdus wrote:
>> > I went to the shields up web site and it's very educational.  Thanks
>for
>> > the info.  It seems from what I'm learning that it's easier to secure
a
>> > linux box than a windows box.  Well, it looks like I have another
>subject
>> > to learn about... ipchains.
>> >
>> > The Weaving Beaver
>> > rclowdus@kcnet.com
>> > "Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice."
>> > "Weave your own cloth and it will reward you twice."
>> >
>> > On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Kirk Wood wrote:
>> >
>> > > I don't really know if a hardware solution is better then the
>firewall you
>> > > activated. Certainly at some point all firewalls have software.
>> > >
>> > > It is quite possible to have a robust firwall with just linux. In
>fact,
>> > > you can create one with ipchains. Just the same, you can create an
>> > > insecure firewall with software. You can go to the shields up web
>site and
>> > > they will give you a basic idea of what you have available to scipt
>> > > kiddies.
>> > >
>> > > =======
>> > > Kirk Wood
>> > > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>> > >
>> > > "When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missle at
>> > > a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be
>decisive."
>> > > 	- President George Bush
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Speakup mailing list
>> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Speakup mailing list
>> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


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firewalls

[Frank Carmickle]

If anyone is interested in a $16 486 box, that is a little larger then a
laptop, with a 340 mb hd, onboard ne2000, and one isa slot, please write
me off the
list.  The western pa linux users group is going to order a bunch of
them.  There about 200 avaiable.  I will ship it anywhere in the
US and posibly canada.  Obviously shipping will be extra.  I may also be
able to get you a second nic for the machine at another $10 or so.  Not a
bad price for a router that's sort of small.  Hey it's better then a
lynxsis or netgear router that would cost you $100 and up!  

Please write me off list if you are interested.

Frank