Web Browsers with Javascript?

Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Steve Holmes]

This may be old hat by now but I just want to be sure.  Are there any
accessible browsers for Linux that support javascript? I know lynx doesn't
and I doubt w3 for Emacs does either.  I think javascript is here to stay
and I am emensely disappointed that lynx has never gotten javascript going
in their development.

Any ideas?

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Thomas Ward]

None that I am personally aware of. Which really is too bad because colleges
are pushing the java script thing.
I don't know about the colleges in other places but around here they think
Java script is hot stuff.

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Gregory Nowak]

Same here, cs101 is html and java script.
Greg


On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:12:49PM -0500, Thomas Ward wrote:
> None that I am personally aware of. Which really is too bad because colleges
> are pushing the java script thing.
> I don't know about the colleges in other places but around here they think
> Java script is hot stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Dave Hunt]

It's too bad there are no text-mode w3 browsers with some form of 
JScript interpreter.  The script is not just used to animate images.  
I've encountered instances where it's used to pre-process user input on 
forms.  

Not sure what my school is doing.  When I was there, JavaScript 
had 
yet to be invented.  Pascal was the "teaching language".  If a Windows 
user asks "how do I learn to program", I even suggest starting with 
HTML and JavaScript.  With IE or Navigator, you have a ready-made 
programmiong environment.  One can do all the basics in JavaScript:  
pattern matching (yes, it's full 'regular expressions'), loops, if-else, 
switch(), arrays, user-defined functions, etc, with 
c-like syntax, but, without those pesky pointers:).  In my employment 
situation, I use JScript in some of my w3 content.  


-Dave


On Wed, 2 Jan 
2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Same here, cs101 is html and java script.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:12:49PM -0500, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > None that I am personally aware of. Which really is too bad because colleges
> > are pushing the java script thing.
> > I don't know about the colleges in other places but around here they think
> > Java script is hot stuff.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Steve Holmes]

I've seen a lot of java script in forms as well; it is a good means of
validating user input before it is shipped off to the host again.  I don't
think java script is necessarily so bad, I just wish some of the text-only
browsers' developers would consider looking into supporting it. Java is
publically available, isn't it?

On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Dave Hunt wrote:

> It's too bad there are no text-mode w3 browsers with some form of
> JScript interpreter.  The script is not just used to animate images.
> I've encountered instances where it's used to pre-process user input on
> forms.
>
> Not sure what my school is doing.  When I was there, JavaScript
> had
> yet to be invented.  Pascal was the "teaching language".  If a Windows
> user asks "how do I learn to program", I even suggest starting with
> HTML and JavaScript.  With IE or Navigator, you have a ready-made
> programmiong environment.  One can do all the basics in JavaScript:
> pattern matching (yes, it's full 'regular expressions'), loops, if-else,
> switch(), arrays, user-defined functions, etc, with
> c-like syntax, but, without those pesky pointers:).  In my employment
> situation, I use JScript in some of my w3 content.
>
>
> -Dave
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Jan
> 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
> > Same here, cs101 is html and java script.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:12:49PM -0500, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > > None that I am personally aware of. Which really is too bad because colleges
> > > are pushing the java script thing.
> > > I don't know about the colleges in other places but around here they think
> > > Java script is hot stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Kirk Wood]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> ....  I don't
> think java script is necessarily so bad, I just wish some of the text-only
> browsers' developers would consider looking into supporting it. Java is
> publically available, isn't it?

Before the waters get so muddy one can't get out of the mire: java and
javascript share only a name. Well javascript borrows heavily from java in
it syntax, but it is *NOT* java. And jscript is the m$ implimentation of
javascript with their extensions (and resulting security holes).

Javascript was designed by netscape. I don't think it is called javascript
anymore as Sun took legal action to stop it as it confuses people and
impeeds the adoption of java. Everything needed to include support for
javascript is available for implimentation in a web browser without need
of royalty payments though.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
	-- Joe Martin

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Janina Sajka]

But it is not unique in this ability. And, it makes assumptions about 
available resources client side. So, I reject that js is somehow necessary 
for such things as you describe. Yes, I know, I hear this argument all the 
time. It comes down to large sites wanting to offload cycles to the 
client, rather than supporting larger capacity servers and do the work 
server side. But this is not a path to device independence, and is, in my 
view, a false economy.

 On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:

> I've seen a lot of java script in forms as well; it is a good means of
> validating user input before it is shipped off to the host again.  I don't
> think java script is necessarily so bad, I just wish some of the text-only
> browsers' developers would consider looking into supporting it. Java is
> publically available, isn't it?
> 
> On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Dave Hunt wrote:
> 
> > It's too bad there are no text-mode w3 browsers with some form of
> > JScript interpreter.  The script is not just used to animate images.
> > I've encountered instances where it's used to pre-process user input on
> > forms.
> >
> > Not sure what my school is doing.  When I was there, JavaScript
> > had
> > yet to be invented.  Pascal was the "teaching language".  If a Windows
> > user asks "how do I learn to program", I even suggest starting with
> > HTML and JavaScript.  With IE or Navigator, you have a ready-made
> > programmiong environment.  One can do all the basics in JavaScript:
> > pattern matching (yes, it's full 'regular expressions'), loops, if-else,
> > switch(), arrays, user-defined functions, etc, with
> > c-like syntax, but, without those pesky pointers:).  In my employment
> > situation, I use JScript in some of my w3 content.
> >
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2 Jan
> > 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > Same here, cs101 is html and java script.
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:12:49PM -0500, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > > > None that I am personally aware of. Which really is too bad because colleges
> > > > are pushing the java script thing.
> > > > I don't know about the colleges in other places but around here they think
> > > > Java script is hot stuff.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[BTBG]

I'm not fully sure of some of the things you wrote.  I use JavaScripts on my
web space because my ISP no longer supported the use of cgi scripts in the
server. They were afraid of overloading their servers or something.

I have since moved my pages to geocities where I think there are certain cgi
scripts that are available.

Mostly what I use are simple things like a changing Welcome message, a
selection box and a button or two.  If for no other reason, I think it is
cool.

I also have regular hyperlinks for folks who don't have a JS capable
browser.

from
KH





--- You Wrote: ---

But it is not unique in this ability. And, it makes assumptions about
available resources client side. So, I reject that js is somehow necessary
for such things as you describe. Yes, I know, I hear this argument all the
time. It comes down to large sites wanting to offload cycles to the
client, rather than supporting larger capacity servers and do the work
server side. But this is not a path to device independence, and is, in my
view, a false economy.

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Gregory Nowak]

I'm assuming you're totally blind.
If so, then how do you access your sight with a browser, and how much of it speaks?
Have you ever tried accessing it with a text browser like lynx?
Greg


On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 11:19:07AM -0600, BTBG wrote:
> I'm not fully sure of some of the things you wrote.  I use JavaScripts on my
> web space because my ISP no longer supported the use of cgi scripts in the
> server. They were afraid of overloading their servers or something.
> 
> I have since moved my pages to geocities where I think there are certain cgi
> scripts that are available.
> 
> Mostly what I use are simple things like a changing Welcome message, a
> selection box and a button or two.  If for no other reason, I think it is
> cool.
> 
> I also have regular hyperlinks for folks who don't have a JS capable
> browser.
> 
> from
> KH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- You Wrote: ---
> 
> But it is not unique in this ability. And, it makes assumptions about
> available resources client side. So, I reject that js is somehow necessary
> for such things as you describe. Yes, I know, I hear this argument all the
> time. It comes down to large sites wanting to offload cycles to the
> client, rather than supporting larger capacity servers and do the work
> server side. But this is not a path to device independence, and is, in my
> view, a false economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[BTBG]

Yes, I'm totally blind. I usually use IE5.0 to surf the web and my page
reads very well with it.

I occasionaly log onto a shell account and have been on my page. It reads
well, but the part where the JavaScript doesn't display.  For example, it
might say "Welcome, Today's date is: " and the date and time will be gone.

I'm still moving some things around but most of the links should work.
Except the Humor section.  Here's the url if you want to see it.  It's just
a little playground for me to learn HTML and stuff.

http://www.geocities.com/keithh432

from
KH

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Geoff Shang]

On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, BTBG wrote:

> I occasionaly log onto a shell account and have been on my page. It reads
> well, but the part where the JavaScript doesn't display.  For example, it
> might say "Welcome, Today's date is: " and the date and time will be gone.

The obvious way to get around this is to make the "Today's date is " bit be
generated by the javascript as well.  Then it won't look odd under
non-javascript browsers and they'll be blissfully unaware that it's even
there.

Geoff.

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Kirk Wood]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> ... It comes down to large sites wanting to offload cycles to the 
> But it is not unique in this ability. And, it makes assumptions about 
> client, rather than supporting larger capacity servers and do the work 
> server side. But this is not a path to device independence, and is, in my 
> view, a false economy.

This kind of thinking is the sure way to be left alone in the dark
again. Sorry, but the thinking is dangerous in my view. The fact is that
the consumer must at some point pay for the larger capacity servers. And
while it does make some assumptions about devices comming, there are some
assumptions that should be allowed. To expect ever growing servers to
respond to your lack of cooperation is unrealistic.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
	-- Joe Martin

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Gregory Nowak]

Java is publically available, but "java" and "java script" are 2 different things (or so I have been taught).
Greg


On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 05:01:09AM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> I've seen a lot of java script in forms as well; it is a good means of
> validating user input before it is shipped off to the host again.  I don't
> think java script is necessarily so bad, I just wish some of the text-only
> browsers' developers would consider looking into supporting it. Java is
> publically available, isn't it?
> 
> On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Dave Hunt wrote:
> 
> > It's too bad there are no text-mode w3 browsers with some form of
> > JScript interpreter.  The script is not just used to animate images.
> > I've encountered instances where it's used to pre-process user input on
> > forms.
> >
> > Not sure what my school is doing.  When I was there, JavaScript
> > had
> > yet to be invented.  Pascal was the "teaching language".  If a Windows
> > user asks "how do I learn to program", I even suggest starting with
> > HTML and JavaScript.  With IE or Navigator, you have a ready-made
> > programmiong environment.  One can do all the basics in JavaScript:
> > pattern matching (yes, it's full 'regular expressions'), loops, if-else,
> > switch(), arrays, user-defined functions, etc, with
> > c-like syntax, but, without those pesky pointers:).  In my employment
> > situation, I use JScript in some of my w3 content.
> >
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2 Jan
> > 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > Same here, cs101 is html and java script.
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:12:49PM -0500, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > > > None that I am personally aware of. Which really is too bad because colleges
> > > > are pushing the java script thing.
> > > > I don't know about the colleges in other places but around here they think
> > > > Java script is hot stuff.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Dave Hunt]

Gregory,

Yes, Java and JScript are different languages, with a similar look and 
similar names.  I hear tell the 'aplet' language is yet another one with 
the word "java" in its name.

-Dave

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Gregory Nowak]

Yeah, I've run across the term 'java aplet' as well, but I thought it was the same thing as 'java' ... guess not though.
Greg


On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 08:49:05PM -0500, Dave Hunt wrote:
> Gregory,
> 
> Yes, Java and JScript are different languages, with a similar look and 
> similar names.  I hear tell the 'aplet' language is yet another one with 
> the word "java" in its name.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

java applett

[Kirk Wood]

A java applett is a small program. In my work I have seen these in actual
use. The doctor's office points a web browser to a site. It loads several
applets and then appears to be a complete program. They schedule
appointments, and enter charges after you see the doctor.

Java is used to make this actually behave just as a program taht might be
written instead of looking like a bunch of web pages. When a different
screen is needed a new applett loads up.

The nice thing is that when a change or update to teh program is needed I
don't have to go load it on the computers. It happens automatically when
the company that markets the program causes the web page that loaded these
to expire. Then the new version is automatically downloaded and they now
work with an updated program. The effect is to combine the best of a
termainl program running over a telnet session with a "real" program that
actually runs some checks on the data at the client end.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
	-- Joe Martin

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Dave Hunt]

Alegedly, yes.  It's publically available, cross-platform, and all that 
good stuff.  Having said that, I'm aware that both Microsoft and 
Netscape have made mutually-incompatible extensions.

-Dave

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, 
Steve Holmes wrote:

> I've seen a lot of java script in forms as well; it is a good means of
> validating user input before it is shipped off to the host again.  I don't
> think java script is necessarily so bad, I just wish some of the text-only
> browsers' developers would consider looking into supporting it. Java is
> publically available, isn't it?

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Geoff Shang]

On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Dave Hunt wrote:

> I've encountered instances where it's used to pre-process user input on
> forms.

The stupid thing about this is, if it's programmed properly, it needn't
bother a javascript-incapable browser.  Such checking is activated by an
onclick directive.  If you have the submit action defined in the usual way,
the onclick will be called first if javascript is available and, if it
returns false, the submittion will not take place.  Why people deliberately
avoid such compatible code is beyond me.

Geoff <who recently took a crash course in javascript>

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Janina Sajka]

I keep wanting to understand this. Why do they think it's hot? What about 
js is so hot?


On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:

> None that I am personally aware of. Which really is too bad because colleges
> are pushing the java script thing.
> I don't know about the colleges in other places but around here they think
> Java script is hot stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Kirk Wood]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> I keep wanting to understand this. Why do they think it's hot? What about 
> js is so hot?

It significantly extends html on pages. I use it on my father's site for
site wide navigation. Without the use of script there are huge practical
limits that would come into play. Also it can be used to pre-process forms
before submision. This has cut down significantly on data sent accross the
network.

I suppose there is probably little that couldn't be done without it. But
it can add a large amount of effeciency to the effort. Other options are
to create interaction that doesn't require data be sent back for instance
in the form of a quiz.

I suppose one could extend the argument and ask why would anyone want a PC
anyway? Oh damn, that question has already been asked by a former CEO of
IBM.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
	-- Joe Martin

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Geoff Shang]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> I keep wanting to understand this. Why do they think it's hot? What about
> js is so hot?

<shrug> I think it's because web developers feel, quite rightly, that they
have greater control over the web browser that's rendering the page.  Also,
a lot of people quite annoyingly want to open pages in a new browser
window, for some reason which is beyond my understanding.

A big appeal for anyone writing web pages is that you don't need to worry
about the capabilities of the webserver when writing pages with javascript.
I mean, if I have a page up on a site and I want to use CGI or PHP scripts,
I need to find out if these are available.  PHP is less of a headache as
the files can just be put in with the rest of the site, but it still needs
to be available on the server.  javascript has no such requirements of the
server ... it just requires stuff of the client, which we all know about.

Geoff.

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Thomas Ward]

Personally, I do not have a clue why colleges push java script. For I like
perl, cgi, and php better. I suspect it was because Netscape came up with
it, and it has the backing of the Microsoft people.
I've seen many computer science classes migrating to Visual C++, Visual
Basic, html/java script, and they are not teaching just regular c classes in
Unix any more.
The professors at my school said it was because the Microsoft compilers and
MS stuff was easier to teach. That's because programmers in the Windows
world love to draw all the objects, and slap in some code, and they think
they are good to go.



----- Original Message -----
From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?


> I keep wanting to understand this. Why do they think it's hot? What about
> js is so hot?
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
>
> > None that I am personally aware of. Which really is too bad because
colleges
> > are pushing the java script thing.
> > I don't know about the colleges in other places but around here they
think
> > Java script is hot stuff.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Gregory Nowak]

I for one, don't call it programming. I call it pick and choose, and feel like a programmer. I think that is really unfair to the people who actually sit down, right the code, and know what they're doing. Hell, with the visual stuff, it will even highlight bad cyntax for you.
Greg


On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:14:25PM -0500, Thomas Ward wrote:
> Personally, I do not have a clue why colleges push java script. For I like
> perl, cgi, and php better. I suspect it was because Netscape came up with
> it, and it has the backing of the Microsoft people.
> I've seen many computer science classes migrating to Visual C++, Visual
> Basic, html/java script, and they are not teaching just regular c classes in
> Unix any more.
> The professors at my school said it was because the Microsoft compilers and
> MS stuff was easier to teach. That's because programmers in the Windows
> world love to draw all the objects, and slap in some code, and they think
> they are good to go.
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?
> 
> 
> > I keep wanting to understand this. Why do they think it's hot? What about
> > js is so hot?
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> >
> > > None that I am personally aware of. Which really is too bad because
> colleges
> > > are pushing the java script thing.
> > > I don't know about the colleges in other places but around here they
> think
> > > Java script is hot stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Kirk Wood]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> Personally, I do not have a clue why colleges push java script. ...

It might be some evil plot to send students into the workplace with the
skills that are currently needed in the workforce. It could be that they
are thrying to second guess what will be needed.

While there are many jobs that don't involve any programming that will run
on a Winblows machine, there are many more jobs that will have you program
for a winblows machine. Colleges are in the evil numbers game and want
their students to find jobs so that more students will be suckered into
the experiance.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
	-- Joe Martin

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Amanda Lee]

Well I believe this may begin to change as now in the real world of Data
Processing and Information Technology, Linux is beginning to spread and even
to once proprietary IBM mainframes.
C++ is being re-written to plain old C Language as well.

Amanda Lee
Alexandria, VA


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?


> On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > Personally, I do not have a clue why colleges push java script. ...
>
> It might be some evil plot to send students into the workplace with the
> skills that are currently needed in the workforce. It could be that they
> are thrying to second guess what will be needed.
>
> While there are many jobs that don't involve any programming that will run
> on a Winblows machine, there are many more jobs that will have you program
> for a winblows machine. Colleges are in the evil numbers game and want
> their students to find jobs so that more students will be suckered into
> the experiance.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
> foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
> -- Joe Martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Gregory Nowak]

Why is that? I've personally found c++ to be more flexible then c, primarly because of the way i/o streams are handeled.
Greg


On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 01:47:16PM -0500, Amanda Lee wrote:
> Well I believe this may begin to change as now in the real world of Data
> Processing and Information Technology, Linux is beginning to spread and even
> to once proprietary IBM mainframes.
> C++ is being re-written to plain old C Language as well.
> 
> Amanda Lee
> Alexandria, VA
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?
> 
> 
> > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > > Personally, I do not have a clue why colleges push java script. ...
> >
> > It might be some evil plot to send students into the workplace with the
> > skills that are currently needed in the workforce. It could be that they
> > are thrying to second guess what will be needed.
> >
> > While there are many jobs that don't involve any programming that will run
> > on a Winblows machine, there are many more jobs that will have you program
> > for a winblows machine. Colleges are in the evil numbers game and want
> > their students to find jobs so that more students will be suckered into
> > the experiance.
> >
> > =======
> > Kirk Wood
> > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> >
> > One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
> > foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
> > -- Joe Martin
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Amanda Lee]

I can't answer this because I don't know enough about both languages to
adequately explain.  I suppose they found issues in overal performance in
functions and other aspects to justify re-writing code.  The application I'm
involved with is an EDI App which interfaces to Mercator which converts to
EIF.

We're using Solaris boxes so perhaps there were issues in how SUn's C++
compilers function in terms of efficiency of the generated code.  Of course,
I'm still guessing as I wasn't on site when the decision was made to convert
from C++ to C.

Amanda


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1@uic.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?


> Why is that? I've personally found c++ to be more flexible then c,
primarly because of the way i/o streams are handeled.
> Greg
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 01:47:16PM -0500, Amanda Lee wrote:
> > Well I believe this may begin to change as now in the real world of Data
> > Processing and Information Technology, Linux is beginning to spread and
even
> > to once proprietary IBM mainframes.
> > C++ is being re-written to plain old C Language as well.
> >
> > Amanda Lee
> > Alexandria, VA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?
> >
> >
> > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
> > > > Personally, I do not have a clue why colleges push java script. ...
> > >
> > > It might be some evil plot to send students into the workplace with
the
> > > skills that are currently needed in the workforce. It could be that
they
> > > are thrying to second guess what will be needed.
> > >
> > > While there are many jobs that don't involve any programming that will
run
> > > on a Winblows machine, there are many more jobs that will have you
program
> > > for a winblows machine. Colleges are in the evil numbers game and want
> > > their students to find jobs so that more students will be suckered
into
> > > the experiance.
> > >
> > > =======
> > > Kirk Wood
> > > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> > >
> > > One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
> > > foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
> > > -- Joe Martin
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Janina Sajka]

Steve:

I am not aware of any js support available to us. Perhaps Mozilla 6, when 
we finally get access to GNOME. You are correct that it is becoming very 
difficult to use the web without js.

On the other hand, do we really want to allow js into our machines? Are we 
really willing to let any old web site execute code on our machines? Isn't 
js a security vulnerability waiting to happen? I rather think someone will 
devise some kind of virus delivered via js before two many more years go 
by. What then? Will the press run stories like "How come they didn't tell 
us?"




On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:

> This may be old hat by now but I just want to be sure.  Are there any
> accessible browsers for Linux that support javascript? I know lynx doesn't
> and I doubt w3 for Emacs does either.  I think javascript is here to stay
> and I am emensely disappointed that lynx has never gotten javascript going
> in their development.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Old Pacard Bell box

[BTBG]

Hi listers,
I've been on the list before but it's been a couple years probably.

I have an old Packard Bell box. I no longer have the recovery CD and am
having trouble finding a replacement.  It has been a good door stop and dust
collector but now I've been wondering about running linux on it.

Sorry, I don't have the model number handy. It has a AMD K6 with about
366Mhz. 64 MB RAM. 6GB hard drive.  Don't know if the riptide sound
card/modem still work. I have a DoubleTalk I can put into it.

Will it handle linux?  I have a box set of RedHat 6.1 that includes boot
floppy and manuals.  I have moved a couple times since I bought it and will
have to dig through some boxes to see if I can find the RedHat disks and
stuff.  My son is using the computer up in his room at the moment just for
playing a couple old games.

Any better, quicker, or easier ways to get the Packard Bell loaded with
linux?  I need to have it talk to me.

from
Keith H.
 card

Re: Old Pacard Bell box

[Gregory Nowak]

It will difenetly run Linux without a problem.
I currently have Linux on a 100 MHz machine with 16 mb of ram, and a 850 mb hd, and it runs linux just fine.
Greg


On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 10:35:20AM -0600, BTBG wrote:
> Hi listers,
> I've been on the list before but it's been a couple years probably.
> 
> I have an old Packard Bell box. I no longer have the recovery CD and am
> having trouble finding a replacement.  It has been a good door stop and dust
> collector but now I've been wondering about running linux on it.
> 
> Sorry, I don't have the model number handy. It has a AMD K6 with about
> 366Mhz. 64 MB RAM. 6GB hard drive.  Don't know if the riptide sound
> card/modem still work. I have a DoubleTalk I can put into it.
> 
> Will it handle linux?  I have a box set of RedHat 6.1 that includes boot
> floppy and manuals.  I have moved a couple times since I bought it and will
> have to dig through some boxes to see if I can find the RedHat disks and
> stuff.  My son is using the computer up in his room at the moment just for
> playing a couple old games.
> 
> Any better, quicker, or easier ways to get the Packard Bell loaded with
> linux?  I need to have it talk to me.
> 
> from
> Keith H.
>  card
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Old Pacard Bell box

[Janina Sajka]

Sounds to me like your PB will take linux just fine. I would chuck those 
old $H 6.1's, though. 7.2 is the current RH release, and you may as well 
get current.

Besides, there's been a lot of news here about accessible installing. 
Perhaps you haven't heard if you haven't been around? Bill Acker has 
tweaked the stock RH install to make it accessible with speakup. We call 
it the Speakup Modified Redhat distribution, and its online at 
www.linux-speakup.org/ftp/disks/redhat.


 On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, BTBG wrote:

> Hi listers,
> I've been on the list before but it's been a couple years probably.
> 
> I have an old Packard Bell box. I no longer have the recovery CD and am
> having trouble finding a replacement.  It has been a good door stop and dust
> collector but now I've been wondering about running linux on it.
> 
> Sorry, I don't have the model number handy. It has a AMD K6 with about
> 366Mhz. 64 MB RAM. 6GB hard drive.  Don't know if the riptide sound
> card/modem still work. I have a DoubleTalk I can put into it.
> 
> Will it handle linux?  I have a box set of RedHat 6.1 that includes boot
> floppy and manuals.  I have moved a couple times since I bought it and will
> have to dig through some boxes to see if I can find the RedHat disks and
> stuff.  My son is using the computer up in his room at the moment just for
> playing a couple old games.
> 
> Any better, quicker, or easier ways to get the Packard Bell loaded with
> linux?  I need to have it talk to me.
> 
> from
> Keith H.
>  card
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Amanda Lee]

I went to the link and it just shows RH6.0 and 6.1 related.

Did someone make images of rh 7.2???  I'd like to obtain those and burn the
CDs now that I have a Broadband connection ha!

Thanks!

Amanda Lee
Alexandria, VA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Old Pacard Bell box


> Sounds to me like your PB will take linux just fine. I would chuck those
> old $H 6.1's, though. 7.2 is the current RH release, and you may as well
> get current.
>
> Besides, there's been a lot of news here about accessible installing.
> Perhaps you haven't heard if you haven't been around? Bill Acker has
> tweaked the stock RH install to make it accessible with speakup. We call
> it the Speakup Modified Redhat distribution, and its online at
> www.linux-speakup.org/ftp/disks/redhat.
>
>
>  On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, BTBG wrote:
>
> > Hi listers,
> > I've been on the list before but it's been a couple years probably.
> >
> > I have an old Packard Bell box. I no longer have the recovery CD and am
> > having trouble finding a replacement.  It has been a good door stop and
dust
> > collector but now I've been wondering about running linux on it.
> >
> > Sorry, I don't have the model number handy. It has a AMD K6 with about
> > 366Mhz. 64 MB RAM. 6GB hard drive.  Don't know if the riptide sound
> > card/modem still work. I have a DoubleTalk I can put into it.
> >
> > Will it handle linux?  I have a box set of RedHat 6.1 that includes boot
> > floppy and manuals.  I have moved a couple times since I bought it and
will
> > have to dig through some boxes to see if I can find the RedHat disks and
> > stuff.  My son is using the computer up in his room at the moment just
for
> > playing a couple old games.
> >
> > Any better, quicker, or easier ways to get the Packard Bell loaded with
> > linux?  I need to have it talk to me.
> >
> > from
> > Keith H.
> >  card
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

Go via anonymous ftp. The web page is not properly written, and I haven't
yet had time to fix it.

If you have it, use ncftp. Very cool program. Address is 
ftp.linux-speakup.org. Once there, cd pub/speakup/disks/redhat/7.2


On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:

> I went to the link and it just shows RH6.0 and 6.1 related.
> 
> Did someone make images of rh 7.2???  I'd like to obtain those and burn the
> CDs now that I have a Broadband connection ha!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Amanda Lee
> Alexandria, VA
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 1:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Old Pacard Bell box
> 
> 
> > Sounds to me like your PB will take linux just fine. I would chuck those
> > old $H 6.1's, though. 7.2 is the current RH release, and you may as well
> > get current.
> >
> > Besides, there's been a lot of news here about accessible installing.
> > Perhaps you haven't heard if you haven't been around? Bill Acker has
> > tweaked the stock RH install to make it accessible with speakup. We call
> > it the Speakup Modified Redhat distribution, and its online at
> > www.linux-speakup.org/ftp/disks/redhat.
> >
> >
> >  On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, BTBG wrote:
> >
> > > Hi listers,
> > > I've been on the list before but it's been a couple years probably.
> > >
> > > I have an old Packard Bell box. I no longer have the recovery CD and am
> > > having trouble finding a replacement.  It has been a good door stop and
> dust
> > > collector but now I've been wondering about running linux on it.
> > >
> > > Sorry, I don't have the model number handy. It has a AMD K6 with about
> > > 366Mhz. 64 MB RAM. 6GB hard drive.  Don't know if the riptide sound
> > > card/modem still work. I have a DoubleTalk I can put into it.
> > >
> > > Will it handle linux?  I have a box set of RedHat 6.1 that includes boot
> > > floppy and manuals.  I have moved a couple times since I bought it and
> will
> > > have to dig through some boxes to see if I can find the RedHat disks and
> > > stuff.  My son is using the computer up in his room at the moment just
> for
> > > playing a couple old games.
> > >
> > > Any better, quicker, or easier ways to get the Packard Bell loaded with
> > > linux?  I need to have it talk to me.
> > >
> > > from
> > > Keith H.
> > >  card
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Amanda Lee]

Okay, I'm in there and just using plain old DOS to ftp as I do other stuff
here.  Would appreciate in future if a filelist could be posted so we can
get to the names of the items we need much faster.  I gave-up trying to find
the image names and just gave it the ole wildcard grab! so guess I'll be
downloading until next year ha!

Amanda Lee
Alexandria, VA



----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled


> Go via anonymous ftp. The web page is not properly written, and I haven't
> yet had time to fix it.
>
> If you have it, use ncftp. Very cool program. Address is
> ftp.linux-speakup.org. Once there, cd pub/speakup/disks/redhat/7.2
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:
>
> > I went to the link and it just shows RH6.0 and 6.1 related.
> >
> > Did someone make images of rh 7.2???  I'd like to obtain those and burn
the
> > CDs now that I have a Broadband connection ha!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Amanda Lee
> > Alexandria, VA
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 1:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: Old Pacard Bell box
> >
> >
> > > Sounds to me like your PB will take linux just fine. I would chuck
those
> > > old $H 6.1's, though. 7.2 is the current RH release, and you may as
well
> > > get current.
> > >
> > > Besides, there's been a lot of news here about accessible installing.
> > > Perhaps you haven't heard if you haven't been around? Bill Acker has
> > > tweaked the stock RH install to make it accessible with speakup. We
call
> > > it the Speakup Modified Redhat distribution, and its online at
> > > www.linux-speakup.org/ftp/disks/redhat.
> > >
> > >
> > >  On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, BTBG wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi listers,
> > > > I've been on the list before but it's been a couple years probably.
> > > >
> > > > I have an old Packard Bell box. I no longer have the recovery CD and
am
> > > > having trouble finding a replacement.  It has been a good door stop
and
> > dust
> > > > collector but now I've been wondering about running linux on it.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I don't have the model number handy. It has a AMD K6 with
about
> > > > 366Mhz. 64 MB RAM. 6GB hard drive.  Don't know if the riptide sound
> > > > card/modem still work. I have a DoubleTalk I can put into it.
> > > >
> > > > Will it handle linux?  I have a box set of RedHat 6.1 that includes
boot
> > > > floppy and manuals.  I have moved a couple times since I bought it
and
> > will
> > > > have to dig through some boxes to see if I can find the RedHat disks
and
> > > > stuff.  My son is using the computer up in his room at the moment
just
> > for
> > > > playing a couple old games.
> > > >
> > > > Any better, quicker, or easier ways to get the Packard Bell loaded
with
> > > > linux?  I need to have it talk to me.
> > > >
> > > > from
> > > > Keith H.
> > > >  card
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

Amanda:

A file list, or more probably a proper web page frontend to the files on 
the directory tree is definitely in the works.

I'[m sorry you're having problems recognizing the iso images. But, I also 
don't understand, exactly, because the images are files which end with 
.iso. The two you need for an installation are enigma-i386-disc?.iso where 
? equals 1 and 2 respectively.

Also, there is a draft HOWTO in the directory abov, namely in 
pub/speakup/disks/redhat about installing called HOWTO-INSTALL.html. As I 
said, it's a draft and comments would be appreciated. As a draft, some of 
the linkx in this html are not yet working properly.
 On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, 
Amanda Lee wrote:

> Okay, I'm in there and just using plain old DOS to ftp as I do other stuff
> here.  Would appreciate in future if a filelist could be posted so we can
> get to the names of the items we need much faster.  I gave-up trying to find
> the image names and just gave it the ole wildcard grab! so guess I'll be
> downloading until next year ha!
> 
> Amanda Lee
> Alexandria, VA
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled
> 
> 
> > Go via anonymous ftp. The web page is not properly written, and I haven't
> > yet had time to fix it.
> >
> > If you have it, use ncftp. Very cool program. Address is
> > ftp.linux-speakup.org. Once there, cd pub/speakup/disks/redhat/7.2
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:
> >
> > > I went to the link and it just shows RH6.0 and 6.1 related.
> > >
> > > Did someone make images of rh 7.2???  I'd like to obtain those and burn
> the
> > > CDs now that I have a Broadband connection ha!
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Amanda Lee
> > > Alexandria, VA
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 1:16 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Old Pacard Bell box
> > >
> > >
> > > > Sounds to me like your PB will take linux just fine. I would chuck
> those
> > > > old $H 6.1's, though. 7.2 is the current RH release, and you may as
> well
> > > > get current.
> > > >
> > > > Besides, there's been a lot of news here about accessible installing.
> > > > Perhaps you haven't heard if you haven't been around? Bill Acker has
> > > > tweaked the stock RH install to make it accessible with speakup. We
> call
> > > > it the Speakup Modified Redhat distribution, and its online at
> > > > www.linux-speakup.org/ftp/disks/redhat.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, BTBG wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi listers,
> > > > > I've been on the list before but it's been a couple years probably.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have an old Packard Bell box. I no longer have the recovery CD and
> am
> > > > > having trouble finding a replacement.  It has been a good door stop
> and
> > > dust
> > > > > collector but now I've been wondering about running linux on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, I don't have the model number handy. It has a AMD K6 with
> about
> > > > > 366Mhz. 64 MB RAM. 6GB hard drive.  Don't know if the riptide sound
> > > > > card/modem still work. I have a DoubleTalk I can put into it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Will it handle linux?  I have a box set of RedHat 6.1 that includes
> boot
> > > > > floppy and manuals.  I have moved a couple times since I bought it
> and
> > > will
> > > > > have to dig through some boxes to see if I can find the RedHat disks
> and
> > > > > stuff.  My son is using the computer up in his room at the moment
> just
> > > for
> > > > > playing a couple old games.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any better, quicker, or easier ways to get the Packard Bell loaded
> with
> > > > > linux?  I need to have it talk to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > from
> > > > > Keith H.
> > > > >  card
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Amanda Lee]

Well is moreso to do with my lack of experience with naming conventions for
files like this so I didn't know exactly what to look for.  At any rate,
looks like disk1 is downloading now.

If it seems to be taking too long to get to the other disk, I'll abort and
try to capture a list of file names some how.  Do you know approximately how
many mb/gigs! ha are in this directory?  Ah'well needed something to fill-up
this 40GB drive but may have to go get another one when this is done.
I've seen 60GB drives which are 7200 rpm going for about $110 out there.
Incredible! ! !

Amanda

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled


> Amanda:
>
> A file list, or more probably a proper web page frontend to the files on
> the directory tree is definitely in the works.
>
> I'[m sorry you're having problems recognizing the iso images. But, I also
> don't understand, exactly, because the images are files which end with
> .iso. The two you need for an installation are enigma-i386-disc?.iso where
> ? equals 1 and 2 respectively.
>
> Also, there is a draft HOWTO in the directory abov, namely in
> pub/speakup/disks/redhat about installing called HOWTO-INSTALL.html. As I
> said, it's a draft and comments would be appreciated. As a draft, some of
> the linkx in this html are not yet working properly.
>  On Sun, 6 Jan 2002,
> Amanda Lee wrote:
>
> > Okay, I'm in there and just using plain old DOS to ftp as I do other
stuff
> > here.  Would appreciate in future if a filelist could be posted so we
can
> > get to the names of the items we need much faster.  I gave-up trying to
find
> > the image names and just gave it the ole wildcard grab! so guess I'll be
> > downloading until next year ha!
> >
> > Amanda Lee
> > Alexandria, VA
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 1:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled
> >
> >
> > > Go via anonymous ftp. The web page is not properly written, and I
haven't
> > > yet had time to fix it.
> > >
> > > If you have it, use ncftp. Very cool program. Address is
> > > ftp.linux-speakup.org. Once there, cd pub/speakup/disks/redhat/7.2
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:
> > >
> > > > I went to the link and it just shows RH6.0 and 6.1 related.
> > > >
> > > > Did someone make images of rh 7.2???  I'd like to obtain those and
burn
> > the
> > > > CDs now that I have a Broadband connection ha!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > Amanda Lee
> > > > Alexandria, VA
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 1:16 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Old Pacard Bell box
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Sounds to me like your PB will take linux just fine. I would chuck
> > those
> > > > > old $H 6.1's, though. 7.2 is the current RH release, and you may
as
> > well
> > > > > get current.
> > > > >
> > > > > Besides, there's been a lot of news here about accessible
installing.
> > > > > Perhaps you haven't heard if you haven't been around? Bill Acker
has
> > > > > tweaked the stock RH install to make it accessible with speakup.
We
> > call
> > > > > it the Speakup Modified Redhat distribution, and its online at
> > > > > www.linux-speakup.org/ftp/disks/redhat.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, BTBG wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi listers,
> > > > > > I've been on the list before but it's been a couple years
probably.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have an old Packard Bell box. I no longer have the recovery CD
and
> > am
> > > > > > having trouble finding a replacement.  It has been a good door
stop
> > and
> > > > dust
> > > > > > collector but now I've been wondering about running linux on it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry, I don't have the model number handy. It has a AMD K6 with
> > about
> > > > > > 366Mhz. 64 MB RAM. 6GB hard drive.  Don't know if the riptide
sound
> > > > > > card/modem still work. I have a DoubleTalk I can put into it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will it handle linux?  I have a box set of RedHat 6.1 that
includes
> > boot
> > > > > > floppy and manuals.  I have moved a couple times since I bought
it
> > and
> > > > will
> > > > > > have to dig through some boxes to see if I can find the RedHat
disks
> > and
> > > > > > stuff.  My son is using the computer up in his room at the
moment
> > just
> > > > for
> > > > > > playing a couple old games.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any better, quicker, or easier ways to get the Packard Bell
loaded
> > with
> > > > > > linux?  I need to have it talk to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > Keith H.
> > > > > >  card
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > >
> > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > >
> > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Amanda:

Yeh, I know what you mean about knowing the lingo. Sorry. Didn't mean to 
assume in my earlier mail.

The .iso image files are huge. About 680 mB each, approximately. They're 
fully loaded CD ROM images, in other words.

Yes, you can always (almost) get a listing of files with ftp. Just use ls 
or dir. Both work.

PS: Yes, the disk treadmill moves on as does the cpu speed treadmill. Are 
you ready for 300 gB disks in another year or so?


-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Amanda Lee]

Ha! ha! yah may need those bigger horses! if I stick with windblows but not
with Linux of course.

I doubt this is any record but via my Comcast Cable Modem connection, it
took:

3610.59 seconds at 189.17KB
to download 683015842 Bytes

Amanda



----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled


> Hi, Amanda:
>
> Yeh, I know what you mean about knowing the lingo. Sorry. Didn't mean to
> assume in my earlier mail.
>
> The .iso image files are huge. About 680 mB each, approximately. They're
> fully loaded CD ROM images, in other words.
>
> Yes, you can always (almost) get a listing of files with ftp. Just use ls
> or dir. Both work.
>
> PS: Yes, the disk treadmill moves on as does the cpu speed treadmill. Are
> you ready for 300 gB disks in another year or so?
>
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Kirk Wood]

On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:
> Ha! ha! yah may need those bigger horses! if I stick with windblows but not
> with Linux of course.
> 
> I doubt this is any record but via my Comcast Cable Modem connection, it
> took:
> 
> 3610.59 seconds at 189.17KB
> to download 683015842 Bytes

Don't know what Linux has to do with this. I have both winblows and
linux. Guess what? They both download at the same speed for a given
connection.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
	-- Joe Martin

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Gregory Nowak]

Well, isn't linux supposed to have a better tcp stack then windows?
Greg


On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:25:31PM -0600, Kirk Wood wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:
> > Ha! ha! yah may need those bigger horses! if I stick with windblows but not
> > with Linux of course.
> > 
> > I doubt this is any record but via my Comcast Cable Modem connection, it
> > took:
> > 
> > 3610.59 seconds at 189.17KB
> > to download 683015842 Bytes
> 
> Don't know what Linux has to do with this. I have both winblows and
> linux. Guess what? They both download at the same speed for a given
> connection.
> 
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> 
> One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
> foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
> 	-- Joe Martin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

If I'm not mistaken, they both use BSD for this.

On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Well, isn't linux supposed to have a better tcp stack then windows?
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:25:31PM -0600, Kirk Wood wrote:
> > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:
> > > Ha! ha! yah may need those bigger horses! if I stick with windblows but not
> > > with Linux of course.
> > > 
> > > I doubt this is any record but via my Comcast Cable Modem connection, it
> > > took:
> > > 
> > > 3610.59 seconds at 189.17KB
> > > to download 683015842 Bytes
> > 
> > Don't know what Linux has to do with this. I have both winblows and
> > linux. Guess what? They both download at the same speed for a given
> > connection.
> > 
> > =======
> > Kirk Wood
> > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> > 
> > One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
> > foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
> > 	-- Joe Martin
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Kirk Wood]

On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Well, isn't linux supposed to have a better tcp stack then windows?

It doesn't take much of a TCP/IP stack to have a download speed. One
advantage of linux over win9.x series (including me) is that it adapts
parameters to maximize throughput. But that being said, the cable ISPs
have already made modifications so that much of that advantage is
minimized anyway.

The TCP/IP stack in linux is a more robust and more complete stack then
win9.x. It is probably superior to NT4.0 The jury is out in regards to
win2k. Then again, win2k uses a modified form of the freebsd stack.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
	-- Joe Martin

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Jason Symes]

>From my networking experience, I'd say a better tcp/ip stack wouldn't speed
the connection and download speeds, but it would improve a pc's performance
times a bit.
At 04:40 PM 1/6/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Well, isn't linux supposed to have a better tcp stack then windows?
>Greg
>
>
>On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:25:31PM -0600, Kirk Wood wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:
>> > Ha! ha! yah may need those bigger horses! if I stick with windblows
but not
>> > with Linux of course.
>> > 
>> > I doubt this is any record but via my Comcast Cable Modem connection, it
>> > took:
>> > 
>> > 3610.59 seconds at 189.17KB
>> > to download 683015842 Bytes
>> 
>> Don't know what Linux has to do with this. I have both winblows and
>> linux. Guess what? They both download at the same speed for a given
>> connection.
>> 
>> =======
>> Kirk Wood
>> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>> 
>> One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
>> foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
>> 	-- Joe Martin
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
Jason Symes

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

189.17 kB beats my DSL which seems to top out around 167.

On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:

> Ha! ha! yah may need those bigger horses! if I stick with windblows but not
> with Linux of course.
> 
> I doubt this is any record but via my Comcast Cable Modem connection, it
> took:
> 
> 3610.59 seconds at 189.17KB
> to download 683015842 Bytes
> 
> Amanda
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 3:53 PM
> Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled
> 
> 
> > Hi, Amanda:
> >
> > Yeh, I know what you mean about knowing the lingo. Sorry. Didn't mean to
> > assume in my earlier mail.
> >
> > The .iso image files are huge. About 680 mB each, approximately. They're
> > fully loaded CD ROM images, in other words.
> >
> > Yes, you can always (almost) get a listing of files with ftp. Just use ls
> > or dir. Both work.
> >
> > PS: Yes, the disk treadmill moves on as does the cpu speed treadmill. Are
> > you ready for 300 gB disks in another year or so?
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Amanda Lee]

okay this is why I posted this as I was merely currious to see what others
were receiving in terms of download speeds.  Yeah, not related to Linux to
those purists amongst us but is related to know what to expect if you go
for those large image files on the speakup ftp site.

Some folks just aren't any fun! at all! ah'well!

Just hope that when Comcast does switch over to their own
self-proclaimed high-speed network/I'm hoping they already have,
that everything doesn't go completely to hell.  I've heard this will
happen on January 10th.

Amanda

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Richard Wells]

I am gonna show my ignorance here. What do you do with a .ISO file once you
download it assuming you want to make an image from a Winblows machine? I
have Slackware 8.0 running but I am thinking about taking a look at RedHat
but my CD burner is still hooked to the Winblows machine.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled


Hi, Amanda:

Yeh, I know what you mean about knowing the lingo. Sorry. Didn't mean to
assume in my earlier mail.

The .iso image files are huge. About 680 mB each, approximately. They're
fully loaded CD ROM images, in other words.

Yes, you can always (almost) get a listing of files with ftp. Just use ls
or dir. Both work.

PS: Yes, the disk treadmill moves on as does the cpu speed treadmill. Are
you ready for 300 gB disks in another year or so?


--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

You use it to create a CDR. This is supported on Windows including by Easy 
CD Creator. But, I think it's a lot easier to use on linux with cdrecord. 
Here's how the command to burn the first Redhat installation CDR from its 
iso image might look in linux:

cdrecord -v -speed=12 dev=0,0,0 enigma-i386-disc1.iso

Now, isn't that simpler than Easy CD Creator?
 On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, 
Richard Wells wrote:

> I am gonna show my ignorance here. What do you do with a .ISO file once you
> download it assuming you want to make an image from a Winblows machine? I
> have Slackware 8.0 running but I am thinking about taking a look at RedHat
> but my CD burner is still hooked to the Winblows machine.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 3:53 PM
> Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled
> 
> 
> Hi, Amanda:
> 
> Yeh, I know what you mean about knowing the lingo. Sorry. Didn't mean to
> assume in my earlier mail.
> 
> The .iso image files are huge. About 680 mB each, approximately. They're
> fully loaded CD ROM images, in other words.
> 
> Yes, you can always (almost) get a listing of files with ftp. Just use ls
> or dir. Both work.
> 
> PS: Yes, the disk treadmill moves on as does the cpu speed treadmill. Are
> you ready for 300 gB disks in another year or so?
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
Greg


On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:31:43PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> You use it to create a CDR. This is supported on Windows including by Easy 
> CD Creator. But, I think it's a lot easier to use on linux with cdrecord. 
> Here's how the command to burn the first Redhat installation CDR from its 
> iso image might look in linux:
> 
> cdrecord -v -speed=12 dev=0,0,0 enigma-i386-disc1.iso
> 
> Now, isn't that simpler than Easy CD Creator?
>  On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, 
> Richard Wells wrote:
> 
> > I am gonna show my ignorance here. What do you do with a .ISO file once you
> > download it assuming you want to make an image from a Winblows machine? I
> > have Slackware 8.0 running but I am thinking about taking a look at RedHat
> > but my CD burner is still hooked to the Winblows machine.
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 3:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled
> > 
> > 
> > Hi, Amanda:
> > 
> > Yeh, I know what you mean about knowing the lingo. Sorry. Didn't mean to
> > assume in my earlier mail.
> > 
> > The .iso image files are huge. About 680 mB each, approximately. They're
> > fully loaded CD ROM images, in other words.
> > 
> > Yes, you can always (almost) get a listing of files with ftp. Just use ls
> > or dir. Both work.
> > 
> > PS: Yes, the disk treadmill moves on as does the cpu speed treadmill. Are
> > you ready for 300 gB disks in another year or so?
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

Perhaps, perhaps not. But, that wasn't the subject. Burning from an iso 
image was the subject.

On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:31:43PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > You use it to create a CDR. This is supported on Windows including by Easy 
> > CD Creator. But, I think it's a lot easier to use on linux with cdrecord. 
> > Here's how the command to burn the first Redhat installation CDR from its 
> > iso image might look in linux:
> > 
> > cdrecord -v -speed=12 dev=0,0,0 enigma-i386-disc1.iso
> > 
> > Now, isn't that simpler than Easy CD Creator?
> >  On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, 
> > Richard Wells wrote:
> > 
> > > I am gonna show my ignorance here. What do you do with a .ISO file once you
> > > download it assuming you want to make an image from a Winblows machine? I
> > > have Slackware 8.0 running but I am thinking about taking a look at RedHat
> > > but my CD burner is still hooked to the Winblows machine.
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 3:53 PM
> > > Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi, Amanda:
> > > 
> > > Yeh, I know what you mean about knowing the lingo. Sorry. Didn't mean to
> > > assume in my earlier mail.
> > > 
> > > The .iso image files are huge. About 680 mB each, approximately. They're
> > > fully loaded CD ROM images, in other words.
> > > 
> > > Yes, you can always (almost) get a listing of files with ftp. Just use ls
> > > or dir. Both work.
> > > 
> > > PS: Yes, the disk treadmill moves on as does the cpu speed treadmill. Are
> > > you ready for 300 gB disks in another year or so?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > 
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > 
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _________________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Heck, I never even read the CD-writing HOWTO.  I used a command-line 
similar 
to the one mentioned by Janina, and it just worked.



          Bill



On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Perhaps, perhaps not. But, that wasn't the subject. Burning from an iso 
> image was the subject.
> 
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
> > Greg

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Gregory Nowak]

Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
Greg


On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:48:56AM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> Heck, I never even read the CD-writing HOWTO.  I used a command-line 
> similar 
> to the one mentioned by Janina, and it just worked.
> 
> 
> 
>           Bill
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > Perhaps, perhaps not. But, that wasn't the subject. Burning from an iso 
> > image was the subject.
> > 
> > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > 
> > > Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
> > > Greg
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

What does having a scsi drive have to do with it? When I got my IBM 
Thinkpad with an IDE burner I simply made sure my kernel had scsi 
emmulation, and then added the switch to lilo.conf. It's worked like a 
charm always. So, I really don't understand your assumption at all. This 
is not rocket science.

 On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:48:56AM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> > Heck, I never even read the CD-writing HOWTO.  I used a command-line 
> > similar 
> > to the one mentioned by Janina, and it just worked.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >           Bill
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > 
> > > Perhaps, perhaps not. But, that wasn't the subject. Burning from an iso 
> > > image was the subject.
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
> > > > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Gregory Nowak]

Having an ide burner means that you need to know that you need to have kernel support for ide-scsi, and that you need to pass paremeters to the kernel in lilo.conf.
How are you going to know all of this? By reading the cd-writing howto. If this isn't rocket science, then please someone tell me what the howtos are there for, and why others besides myself on this list respond with "goo look at the cd-writing howto" whenever an innocent soul with an ide burner asks about writing cds in Linux?
Afterall, something that's not rocket science should be fully explanable via e-mail, especially on a listserv like this.
Greg


On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 08:44:17PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> What does having a scsi drive have to do with it? When I got my IBM 
> Thinkpad with an IDE burner I simply made sure my kernel had scsi 
> emmulation, and then added the switch to lilo.conf. It's worked like a 
> charm always. So, I really don't understand your assumption at all. This 
> is not rocket science.
> 
>  On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:48:56AM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> > > Heck, I never even read the CD-writing HOWTO.  I used a command-line 
> > > similar 
> > > to the one mentioned by Janina, and it just worked.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >           Bill
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Perhaps, perhaps not. But, that wasn't the subject. Burning from an iso 
> > > > image was the subject.
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
> > > > > Greg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

Well, I have /usr/doc/cdrecord/README.ATAPI. Guess you'd have to know what 
atapi is. Or what cdrecord is. Or what doc is. Or what usr is. Or ...


On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Having an ide burner means that you need to know that you need to have kernel support for ide-scsi, and that you need to pass paremeters to the kernel in lilo.conf.
> How are you going to know all of this? By reading the cd-writing howto. If this isn't rocket science, then please someone tell me what the howtos are there for, and why others besides myself on this list respond with "goo look at the cd-writing howto" whenever an innocent soul with an ide burner asks about writing cds in Linux?
> Afterall, something that's not rocket science should be fully explanable via e-mail, especially on a listserv like this.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 08:44:17PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > What does having a scsi drive have to do with it? When I got my IBM 
> > Thinkpad with an IDE burner I simply made sure my kernel had scsi 
> > emmulation, and then added the switch to lilo.conf. It's worked like a 
> > charm always. So, I really don't understand your assumption at all. This 
> > is not rocket science.
> > 
> >  On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > 
> > > Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> > > Greg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:48:56AM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> > > > Heck, I never even read the CD-writing HOWTO.  I used a command-line 
> > > > similar 
> > > > to the one mentioned by Janina, and it just worked.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >           Bill
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Perhaps, perhaps not. But, that wasn't the subject. Burning from an iso 
> > > > > image was the subject.
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
> > > > > > Greg
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Gregory Nowak]

Before I started with Linux, I was faithfull to M$ like everyone else. This meant that I used my burner with easy cd creator which was a nice and clean job (just install it, and bingo). However, out of all the terms you gave below, the only thing I knew about when I first used loadlin to boot zipspeak was ATAPI. If you would've mentioned to me cdrecord, /usr, /doc, ETC. back in thoes days, my answer to you would have been confusion and "ha, what are theese words"?
Greg


On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 10:06:35PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Well, I have /usr/doc/cdrecord/README.ATAPI. Guess you'd have to know what 
> atapi is. Or what cdrecord is. Or what doc is. Or what usr is. Or ...
> 
> 
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > Having an ide burner means that you need to know that you need to have kernel support for ide-scsi, and that you need to pass paremeters to the kernel in lilo.conf.
> > How are you going to know all of this? By reading the cd-writing howto. If this isn't rocket science, then please someone tell me what the howtos are there for, and why others besides myself on this list respond with "goo look at the cd-writing howto" whenever an innocent soul with an ide burner asks about writing cds in Linux?
> > Afterall, something that's not rocket science should be fully explanable via e-mail, especially on a listserv like this.
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 08:44:17PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > What does having a scsi drive have to do with it? When I got my IBM 
> > > Thinkpad with an IDE burner I simply made sure my kernel had scsi 
> > > emmulation, and then added the switch to lilo.conf. It's worked like a 
> > > charm always. So, I really don't understand your assumption at all. This 
> > > is not rocket science.
> > > 
> > >  On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> > > > Greg
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:48:56AM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> > > > > Heck, I never even read the CD-writing HOWTO.  I used a command-line 
> > > > > similar 
> > > > > to the one mentioned by Janina, and it just worked.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >           Bill
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Perhaps, perhaps not. But, that wasn't the subject. Burning from an iso 
> > > > > > image was the subject.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
> > > > > > > Greg
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > 	
> > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > 
> > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > 
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Steve Holmes]

Thank God for those HOWTO's!!! If it weren't for the various HOWTO files,
I would have had a much more dificult time learning and getting started
with Linux.  First, it was the serial howto to get a second talking DOS
machine connected to a linux box as a terminal, the eathernet and net3
HOWTO's to get my networking going, and lately, I've referred to the CD
writing HOWTO several times for reference.  I've learned a lot by reading
these HOWTO's.  The only bad one I've seen so far was a mail thing that
did not tell me much at all.

I think it may often be much easier to refer someone to a HOWTO rather
than try and get into a long drawn out explanation via an e-mail list.
For example, I don't use the ide-scsi parm to my kernel because I use
modules so had to do things a bit differently when loading my modules.
Frankly, I forget exactly what I did now but I can go back for reference
to the HOWTO and my config files.

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Before I started with Linux, I was faithfull to M$ like everyone else. This meant that I used my burner with easy cd creator which was a nice and clean job (just install it, and bingo). However, out of all the terms you gave below, the only thing I knew about when I first used loadlin to boot zipspeak was ATAPI. If you would've mentioned to me cdrecord, /usr, /doc, ETC. back in thoes days, my answer to you would have been confusion and "ha, what are theese words"?
> Greg
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 10:06:35PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Well, I have /usr/doc/cdrecord/README.ATAPI. Guess you'd have to know what
> > atapi is. Or what cdrecord is. Or what doc is. Or what usr is. Or ...
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > Having an ide burner means that you need to know that you need to have kernel support for ide-scsi, and that you need to pass paremeters to the kernel in lilo.conf.
> > > How are you going to know all of this? By reading the cd-writing howto. If this isn't rocket science, then please someone tell me what the howtos are there for, and why others besides myself on this list respond with "goo look at the cd-writing howto" whenever an innocent soul with an ide burner asks about writing cds in Linux?
> > > Afterall, something that's not rocket science should be fully explanable via e-mail, especially on a listserv like this.
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 08:44:17PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > What does having a scsi drive have to do with it? When I got my IBM
> > > > Thinkpad with an IDE burner I simply made sure my kernel had scsi
> > > > emmulation, and then added the switch to lilo.conf. It's worked like a
> > > > charm always. So, I really don't understand your assumption at all. This
> > > > is not rocket science.
> > > >
> > > >  On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> > > > > Greg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:48:56AM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> > > > > > Heck, I never even read the CD-writing HOWTO.  I used a command-line
> > > > > > similar
> > > > > > to the one mentioned by Janina, and it just worked.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >           Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps, perhaps not. But, that wasn't the subject. Burning from an iso
> > > > > > > image was the subject.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
> > > > > > > > Greg
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:

> For example, I don't use the ide-scsi parm to my kernel because I use
> modules so had to do things a bit differently when loading my modules.

My scsi emmulation is compiled as a module. I don't understand this 
statement.

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Steve Holmes]

I thought that parm was only required if the scsi stuff was statically
compiled into the kernel.  Since I used modules for this, as you are
apparently doing, and I didn't specify that parm, I didn't think it was
really necessary for dynamic kernels.  Don't know much about the internals
of this stuff.  This SCSI emmulation for IDE drives all sounds a bit
foreign to me.  As long as I can get it working...

On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
>
> > For example, I don't use the ide-scsi parm to my kernel because I use
> > modules so had to do things a bit differently when loading my modules.
>
> My scsi emmulation is compiled as a module. I don't understand this
> statement.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

howtos, was: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Gregory Nowak]

Exactly, and that brings me back to my point, that not everything under linux is rocket science as Janina stated.
Greg


On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 07:00:57AM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> Thank God for those HOWTO's!!! If it weren't for the various HOWTO files,
> I would have had a much more dificult time learning and getting started
> with Linux.  First, it was the serial howto to get a second talking DOS
> machine connected to a linux box as a terminal, the eathernet and net3
> HOWTO's to get my networking going, and lately, I've referred to the CD
> writing HOWTO several times for reference.  I've learned a lot by reading
> these HOWTO's.  The only bad one I've seen so far was a mail thing that
> did not tell me much at all.
> 
> I think it may often be much easier to refer someone to a HOWTO rather
> than try and get into a long drawn out explanation via an e-mail list.
> For example, I don't use the ide-scsi parm to my kernel because I use
> modules so had to do things a bit differently when loading my modules.
> Frankly, I forget exactly what I did now but I can go back for reference
> to the HOWTO and my config files.
> 
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > Before I started with Linux, I was faithfull to M$ like everyone else. This meant that I used my burner with easy cd creator which was a nice and clean job (just install it, and bingo). However, out of all the terms you gave below, the only thing I knew about when I first used loadlin to boot zipspeak was ATAPI. If you would've mentioned to me cdrecord, /usr, /doc, ETC. back in thoes days, my answer to you would have been confusion and "ha, what are theese words"?
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 10:06:35PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > Well, I have /usr/doc/cdrecord/README.ATAPI. Guess you'd have to know what
> > > atapi is. Or what cdrecord is. Or what doc is. Or what usr is. Or ...
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > >
> > > > Having an ide burner means that you need to know that you need to have kernel support for ide-scsi, and that you need to pass paremeters to the kernel in lilo.conf.
> > > > How are you going to know all of this? By reading the cd-writing howto. If this isn't rocket science, then please someone tell me what the howtos are there for, and why others besides myself on this list respond with "goo look at the cd-writing howto" whenever an innocent soul with an ide burner asks about writing cds in Linux?
> > > > Afterall, something that's not rocket science should be fully explanable via e-mail, especially on a listserv like this.
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 08:44:17PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > What does having a scsi drive have to do with it? When I got my IBM
> > > > > Thinkpad with an IDE burner I simply made sure my kernel had scsi
> > > > > emmulation, and then added the switch to lilo.conf. It's worked like a
> > > > > charm always. So, I really don't understand your assumption at all. This
> > > > > is not rocket science.
> > > > >
> > > > >  On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> > > > > > Greg
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:48:56AM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> > > > > > > Heck, I never even read the CD-writing HOWTO.  I used a command-line
> > > > > > > similar
> > > > > > > to the one mentioned by Janina, and it just worked.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >           Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Perhaps, perhaps not. But, that wasn't the subject. Burning from an iso
> > > > > > > > image was the subject.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
> > > > > > > > > Greg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > >
> > > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > >
> > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Not everyone is/was faithful to M$.  I have never used Windows, and don't 
intend to in the future.



         Bill


On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Before I started with Linux, I was faithfull to M$ like everyone else. This meant that I used my burner with easy cd creator which was a nice and clean job (just install it, and bingo). However, out of all the terms you gave below, the only thing I knew about when I first used loadlin to boot zipspeak was ATAPI. If you would've mentioned to me cdrecord, /usr, /doc, ETC. back in thoes days, my answer to you would have been confusion and "ha, what are theese words"?
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 10:06:35PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Well, I have /usr/doc/cdrecord/README.ATAPI. Guess you'd have to know what 
> > atapi is. Or what cdrecord is. Or what doc is. Or what usr is. Or ...
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > 
> > > Having an ide burner means that you need to know that you need to have kernel support for ide-scsi, and that you need to pass paremeters to the kernel in lilo.conf.
> > > How are you going to know all of this? By reading the cd-writing howto. If this isn't rocket science, then please someone tell me what the howtos are there for, and why others besides myself on this list respond with "goo look at the cd-writing howto" whenever an innocent soul with an ide burner asks about writing cds in Linux?
> > > Afterall, something that's not rocket science should be fully explanable via e-mail, especially on a listserv like this.
> > > Greg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 08:44:17PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > What does having a scsi drive have to do with it? When I got my IBM 
> > > > Thinkpad with an IDE burner I simply made sure my kernel had scsi 
> > > > emmulation, and then added the switch to lilo.conf. It's worked like a 
> > > > charm always. So, I really don't understand your assumption at all. This 
> > > > is not rocket science.
> > > > 
> > > >  On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> > > > > Greg
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:48:56AM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> > > > > > Heck, I never even read the CD-writing HOWTO.  I used a command-line 
> > > > > > similar 
> > > > > > to the one mentioned by Janina, and it just worked.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >           Bill
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Perhaps, perhaps not. But, that wasn't the subject. Burning from an iso 
> > > > > > > image was the subject.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Yes, but getting it all set up to work properly in the first place is a big pain, even if you follow along with the cd writing howto.
> > > > > > > > Greg
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > 	
> > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > 
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > 
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

subject lines

[Kirk Wood]

I would just like to throw out a suggestion: you may find help sooner if
you change the subject line to reflect the subject of your question. For
instance right now we have:
Sound problem under a lilo.conf subject.
CD burning discussion under a parted subject.

I am not a police and not trying to be one. But I don't read
everything. When a subject is well underway, I often skip out the
rest. When a new question is posed, I may be able to help. The whole thing
is the subject line helps track what is being discussed and *should* be a
menas to help one sort through their mail.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
	-- Joe Martin

Re: subject lines

[Charles Crawford]

Yeah, and I just confused things by posting about bulletin boards under a 
completely different subject.  Just after I hit the send button, I realized 
it.  Oops, sorry for sure.

-- charlie Crawford.
At 07:18 AM 1/8/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I would just like to throw out a suggestion: you may find help sooner if
>you change the subject line to reflect the subject of your question. For
>instance right now we have:
>Sound problem under a lilo.conf subject.
>CD burning discussion under a parted subject.
>
>I am not a police and not trying to be one. But I don't read
>everything. When a subject is well underway, I often skip out the
>rest. When a new question is posed, I may be able to help. The whole thing
>is the subject line helps track what is being discussed and *should* be a
>menas to help one sort through their mail.
>
>=======
>Kirk Wood
>Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
>One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
>foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
>         -- Joe Martin
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: subject lines

[Gregory Nowak]

Some of us try to change the subject by saying new subject was: old subject, but it seems that the changes just don't lach on with some people, so we're stuck again with the original subject lines, and after a while you just give up changing it, because what will be the point if you're the only one doing so?
Greg


On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 10:39:59AM -0500, Charles Crawford wrote:
> Yeah, and I just confused things by posting about bulletin boards under a 
> completely different subject.  Just after I hit the send button, I realized 
> it.  Oops, sorry for sure.
> 
> -- charlie Crawford.
> At 07:18 AM 1/8/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >I would just like to throw out a suggestion: you may find help sooner if
> >you change the subject line to reflect the subject of your question. For
> >instance right now we have:
> >Sound problem under a lilo.conf subject.
> >CD burning discussion under a parted subject.
> >
> >I am not a police and not trying to be one. But I don't read
> >everything. When a subject is well underway, I often skip out the
> >rest. When a new question is posed, I may be able to help. The whole thing
> >is the subject line helps track what is being discussed and *should* be a
> >menas to help one sort through their mail.
> >
> >=======
> >Kirk Wood
> >Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> >
> >One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
> >foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
> >         -- Joe Martin
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: subject lines

[BTBG]

The point is that at least somebody is being responsible for their actions.
Who knows, you just may be the trend setter.

No body is perfect. It is easy to be in a hurry and forget to adjust the
subject line. More often than not, it is a good idea to change the subject
any time the thread degrades or a new question arrises.

from
Keith H.


--- You Wrote: ---

Some of us try to change the subject by saying new subject was: old subject,
but it seems that the changes just don't lach
on with some people, so we're stuck again with the original subject lines,
and after a while you just give up changing it,
because what will be the point if you're the only one doing so?

<snip>

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Actually, one of each.  The first system has SCSI, so, as you say, it was 
a piece of cake.  The laptop has an ATAPI CD burner.  When i got to the 
kernel parameters screen in the installation, I found that RH7.1 had 
detected the burner and placed "hdc=ide-scsi" on the line that would be 
fed to lilo.  I just moved the cursor to the right of the statement and 
added the all important "speakup_synth=audptr".




          Bill


On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> Greg

cd burners, was: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Gregory Nowak]

Ok, but again, not everyone runs redhat.
I for example run slackware, which doesn't do such hardware detection leaving me to read the cd writing howto.
Yes, I know I could've picked redhat, but there was slackware's zipslack modified into zipspeak, and there was my drive entirely taken up by a fat32 partition, and there was me wanting to have a easy shot at linux (grin). So, that's how that story goes.
Greg


On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 11:38:11PM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> Actually, one of each.  The first system has SCSI, so, as you say, it was 
> a piece of cake.  The laptop has an ATAPI CD burner.  When i got to the 
> kernel parameters screen in the installation, I found that RH7.1 had 
> detected the burner and placed "hdc=ide-scsi" on the line that would be 
> fed to lilo.  I just moved the cursor to the right of the statement and 
> added the all important "speakup_synth=audptr".
> 
> 
> 
> 
>           Bill
> 
> 
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> > Greg
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: cd burners, was: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Just to clarify.  I wasn't saying that people shouldn't use howtos, what 
bugged me was that you said that it was a pain to set up, possibly 
discouraging others from attempting to try something that is pretty 
painless for a lot of us.




          Bill


On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Ok, but again, not everyone runs redhat.
> I for example run slackware, which doesn't do such hardware detection leaving me to read the cd writing howto.
> Yes, I know I could've picked redhat, but there was slackware's zipslack modified into zipspeak, and there was my drive entirely taken up by a fat32 partition, and there was me wanting to have a easy shot at linux (grin). So, that's how that story goes.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 11:38:11PM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> > Actually, one of each.  The first system has SCSI, so, as you say, it was 
> > a piece of cake.  The laptop has an ATAPI CD burner.  When i got to the 
> > kernel parameters screen in the installation, I found that RH7.1 had 
> > detected the burner and placed "hdc=ide-scsi" on the line that would be 
> > fed to lilo.  I just moved the cursor to the right of the statement and 
> > added the all important "speakup_synth=audptr".
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >           Bill
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > 
> > > Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> > > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: cd burners, was: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Gregory Nowak]

I wasn't trying to discourage anyone, I was just stating something that I've found was true for me, and it may or may not be true for others as well.
Greg


On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 09:33:18PM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> Just to clarify.  I wasn't saying that people shouldn't use howtos, what 
> bugged me was that you said that it was a pain to set up, possibly 
> discouraging others from attempting to try something that is pretty 
> painless for a lot of us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>           Bill
> 
> 
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > Ok, but again, not everyone runs redhat.
> > I for example run slackware, which doesn't do such hardware detection leaving me to read the cd writing howto.
> > Yes, I know I could've picked redhat, but there was slackware's zipslack modified into zipspeak, and there was my drive entirely taken up by a fat32 partition, and there was me wanting to have a easy shot at linux (grin). So, that's how that story goes.
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 11:38:11PM -0700, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> > > Actually, one of each.  The first system has SCSI, so, as you say, it was 
> > > a piece of cake.  The laptop has an ATAPI CD burner.  When i got to the 
> > > kernel parameters screen in the installation, I found that RH7.1 had 
> > > detected the burner and placed "hdc=ide-scsi" on the line that would be 
> > > fed to lilo.  I just moved the cursor to the right of the statement and 
> > > added the all important "speakup_synth=audptr".
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >           Bill
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Then you must have a SCSI drive, but not everyone does. You were lucky there.
> > > > Greg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Pine and reply to field?

[Charles Crawford]

	I sent my first pine message in years over the internet today from the 
Linux box.  While I got the domain right, I noticed when reading the 
message that the reply to field had my user name on the Linux machine 
rather than my actual login name on the mail server.  If therefore my user 
name on the Linux machine were Jack and my email address were Tony@ACB.org, 
then the reply field would show reply to: Charles Crawford <Jack@ACB.org> 
When it should be Tony@ACB.org.

	Any ideas on how to fix this?

-- Charlie Crawford.

Re: Pine and reply to field?

[Amanda Lee]

I thought you could setup a filter for this Charlie.

Go to Main Menu, then to Setup, then to Rules and then to fileers and add
a filter which says that when you reply to t xyz address, your name is
abc.

Amanda


On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:

> 	I sent my first pine message in years over the internet today from the
> Linux box.  While I got the domain right, I noticed when reading the
> message that the reply to field had my user name on the Linux machine
> rather than my actual login name on the mail server.  If therefore my user
> name on the Linux machine were Jack and my email address were Tony@ACB.org,
> then the reply field would show reply to: Charles Crawford <Jack@ACB.org>
> When it should be Tony@ACB.org.
>
> 	Any ideas on how to fix this?
>
> -- Charlie Crawford.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Pine and reply to field?

[Amanda Lee]

Hmmm this actually may be a Role not a Filter.

Amanda



On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:

> I thought you could setup a filter for this Charlie.
>
> Go to Main Menu, then to Setup, then to Rules and then to fileers and add
> a filter which says that when you reply to t xyz address, your name is
> abc.
>
> Amanda
>
>
> On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:
>
> > 	I sent my first pine message in years over the internet today from the
> > Linux box.  While I got the domain right, I noticed when reading the
> > message that the reply to field had my user name on the Linux machine
> > rather than my actual login name on the mail server.  If therefore my user
> > name on the Linux machine were Jack and my email address were Tony@ACB.org,
> > then the reply field would show reply to: Charles Crawford <Jack@ACB.org>
> > When it should be Tony@ACB.org.
> >
> > 	Any ideas on how to fix this?
> >
> > -- Charlie Crawford.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Pine and reply to field?

[Charles Crawford]

Thanks Amanda,

         Will have to look.  So the reply field would then be apropriate 
for folks to reply to me.  Of course that still leaves the problem of 
attachments I get with my mail.  If for example, I get a ms-word document 
as an attachment, then what?  Pine only supports mime -- right?

-- Charlie.
At 04:03 PM 1/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I thought you could setup a filter for this Charlie.
>
>Go to Main Menu, then to Setup, then to Rules and then to fileers and add
>a filter which says that when you reply to t xyz address, your name is
>abc.
>
>Amanda
>
>
>On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:
>
> >       I sent my first pine message in years over the internet today 
> from the
> > Linux box.  While I got the domain right, I noticed when reading the
> > message that the reply to field had my user name on the Linux machine
> > rather than my actual login name on the mail server.  If therefore my user
> > name on the Linux machine were Jack and my email address were Tony@ACB.org,
> > then the reply field would show reply to: Charles Crawford <Jack@ACB.org>
> > When it should be Tony@ACB.org.
> >
> >       Any ideas on how to fix this?
> >
> > -- Charlie Crawford.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Pine and reply to field?

[Charles Crawford]

Janina,

	That was information about converting Word and Excel docs when they are 
sent as attachments.  One thing; are they converted to text files?

-- charlie.

Re: Pine and reply to field?

[Janina Sajka]

Like so much in free software, Charley, it's the user's choice.

You want text? Use wvText, and you get text. You want html? Use wvHtml, 
and you get html. You want PDF? Use wvPdf and you get PDF. Or, maybe you 
want postscript? Use wvPs and you get postscript--not that I can imagine 
why any of us would want pdf or postscript, but maybe we do when we're 
working with our blindness impaired colleagues! <grin>

All of these are port of wv, formerly known as word view (until M$ 
complained about the name), and available at http://wvware.org.

Ditto for xl at http://www.xlhtml.org

I don't use ante-word, or catdoc, so don't know the latest status there or 
the current urls.

 On Thu, 3 
Jan 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:

> Janina,
> 
> 	That was information about converting Word and Excel docs when they are 
> sent as attachments.  One thing; are they converted to text files?
> 
> -- charlie.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Pine and reply to field?

[Kirk Wood]

On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:
>          Will have to look.  So the reply field would then be apropriate 
> for folks to reply to me.  Of course that still leaves the problem of 
> attachments I get with my mail.  If for example, I get a ms-word document 
> as an attachment, then what?  Pine only supports mime -- right?

When you get a word doc attached, the thing to do is thank goodness you
can't be infected by the virus. But if you for some reason do care to look
at it, save the file. Then you can either retrieve it to a winblows
machine to look at or use anti-word.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: Pine and reply to field?

[Charles Crawford]

Anit-word?  What is that?

-- charlie crawford.
At 04:34 PM 1/9/02 -0600, you wrote:
>On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:
> >          Will have to look.  So the reply field would then be apropriate
> > for folks to reply to me.  Of course that still leaves the problem of
> > attachments I get with my mail.  If for example, I get a ms-word document
> > as an attachment, then what?  Pine only supports mime -- right?
>
>When you get a word doc attached, the thing to do is thank goodness you
>can't be infected by the virus. But if you for some reason do care to look
>at it, save the file. Then you can either retrieve it to a winblows
>machine to look at or use anti-word.
>
>=======
>Kirk Wood
>Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
>Nowlan's Theory:
>         He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
>         the next freeway exit.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Pine and reply to field?

[Janina Sajka]

On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:

> If for example, I get a ms-word document 
> as an attachment, then what?  Pine only supports mime -- right?


You pipe the file through wv via the .mailcap in your home directory.

Step 1: Get the .mailcap in the goodies directory on the speakup web 
page. Go to :

	ftp://linux-speakup.org/pub/linux/goodies/mailcapstuff.tar.gz

2.)	Retrive the files in this archive into your home directory. This 
will immediately give you the ability to play sound files, for example, 
from the "v" (view) menu whilst reading a mail message within Pine;

3.)	Get and install files from http://www.wvware.com. Note, you may 
also want to get the Excell conversion utilities, while you're at it, from 
http://www.xlhtml.org;

3.)	Install the packages and add to your .mailcap;


 > 
> -- Charlie.
> At 04:03 PM 1/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >I thought you could setup a filter for this Charlie.
> >
> >Go to Main Menu, then to Setup, then to Rules and then to fileers and add
> >a filter which says that when you reply to t xyz address, your name is
> >abc.
> >
> >Amanda
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Charles Crawford wrote:
> >
> > >       I sent my first pine message in years over the internet today 
> > from the
> > > Linux box.  While I got the domain right, I noticed when reading the
> > > message that the reply to field had my user name on the Linux machine
> > > rather than my actual login name on the mail server.  If therefore my user
> > > name on the Linux machine were Jack and my email address were Tony@ACB.org,
> > > then the reply field would show reply to: Charles Crawford <Jack@ACB.org>
> > > When it should be Tony@ACB.org.
> > >
> > >       Any ideas on how to fix this?
> > >
> > > -- Charlie Crawford.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Gregory Nowak]

You use something like easy-cd creator to burn it to a cd. 
Greg


On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:18:08PM -0500, Richard Wells wrote:
> I am gonna show my ignorance here. What do you do with a .ISO file once you
> download it assuming you want to make an image from a Winblows machine? I
> have Slackware 8.0 running but I am thinking about taking a look at RedHat
> but my CD burner is still hooked to the Winblows machine.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 3:53 PM
> Subject: Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled
> 
> 
> Hi, Amanda:
> 
> Yeh, I know what you mean about knowing the lingo. Sorry. Didn't mean to
> assume in my earlier mail.
> 
> The .iso image files are huge. About 680 mB each, approximately. They're
> fully loaded CD ROM images, in other words.
> 
> Yes, you can always (almost) get a listing of files with ftp. Just use ls
> or dir. Both work.
> 
> PS: Yes, the disk treadmill moves on as does the cpu speed treadmill. Are
> you ready for 300 gB disks in another year or so?
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Tony Baechler]

At 02:32 PM 1/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Okay, I'm in there and just using plain old DOS to ftp as I do other stuff

There is a version of ncftp for Win32, for those who are stuck with 
Windows.  It is at ncftp.com or ncftpd.com.  It is in the /ncftp/binaries 
subdirectory I think.  It talks very well with Vocal-Eyes.  I know this is 
a Linux list, but for those who are still migrating it is nice to have a 
decent ftp program at hand.

Sorry about my previous post, apparently the RH images were 
restored.  However, I will be happy to send the first CD to anyone who 
wants it.  I only have one copy of the first RH 7.2 CD image which I made 
for myself but it appears to work.  I will send free matter so you must be 
in a location where it will not cost me anything.  Contact me off list if 
interested.

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Tony Baechler wrote:

> However, I will be happy to send the first CD to anyone who 
> wants it.  I only have one copy of the first RH 7.2 CD image which I made 
> for myself but it appears to work.
That will only work if the person doing the installation is absolutely 
sure that the second disk won't be needed.  The problem is that there are 
two files on the first CD describing all the packages on both disks.  The 
Speakup enabled CD's are constantly being updated, therefore, both CD's 
have to match.




          HTH.
          Bill in Denver

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Tony Baechler]

Hello.  I am sure you already got a reply, but I have the first CD image I 
burned awhile ago.  I will be happy to just send the CD to you.  I think 
that is all you need to install.  I think the images were lost in the 
server crash.

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Janina Sajka]

You shouldn't assume this. And, you molst certainly don't want to mix 
versions--i.e. one disk from one version and the other from a different 
version. That's a recipie for trouble.

 On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Tony Baechler 
wrote:

> Hello.  I am sure you already got a reply, but I have the first CD image I 
> burned awhile ago.  I will be happy to just send the CD to you.  I think 
> that is all you need to install.  I think the images were lost in the 
> server crash.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Tommy Moore]

HI guys.
Asked this question about a week ago but didn't see any messages back on 
it.
I have a copy of the two iso images.
What is the rsync command to keep the two images I have current? I don't 
want to do the entire directory, just the two binary iso files.

Tommy


-- 
Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important
stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)
        -- Linus Torvalds, about his failing hard drive on
linux.cs.helsinki.fi

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

rsync -cvt speakup.octothorp.org::ftp/redhat-7.2/enigma-i386-disc?.iso .
This assumes that you're sitting in the directory containing the ISOs.





          73.
          Bill


On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Tommy Moore wrote:

> HI guys.
> Asked this question about a week ago but didn't see any messages back on 
> it.
> I have a copy of the two iso images.
> What is the rsync command to keep the two images I have current? I don't 
> want to do the entire directory, just the two binary iso files.
> 
> Tommy
> 
> 
> 

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Charles Crawford]

	Can anyone advse me on the relative improvements in RH7.2 over 7.1?  Is it 
worth the upgrade?

-- charlie Crawford.

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Tommy Moore]

Hi there Bill. Tried this command on my system and I don't get any status 
messages or data transfer over the ppp link.

Tommy


-- 
Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important
stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)
        -- Linus Torvalds, about his failing hard drive on
linux.cs.helsinki.fi

Freeamp for Linux?

[Charles Crawford]

	What can folks tell me about freeamp?  I went to their web site and tried 
to locate the file for download, but only got indexes through Lynx.  I then 
tried to ftp there and could not login.  Any advice about Freeamp forLinux 
and how to get it?

-- Charlie Crawford.

Re: Freeamp for Linux?

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

Here's how to work the freeamp site.  Go to http://www.freeamp.org and
select the first frame.  click on download.  Then select the second frame
(the body frame) and you'll get all the details there.

Geoff.

Re: Freeamp for Linux?

[Charles Crawford]

Thanks and will try it.

  -- Charlie Crawford.
At 11:50 AM 1/9/02 +1000, you wrote:
>Hi:
>
>Here's how to work the freeamp site.  Go to http://www.freeamp.org and
>select the first frame.  click on download.  Then select the second frame
>(the body frame) and you'll get all the details there.
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Most of what's going on at first is all the calculation of the differences 
in the local and remote files.  Once it gets going, you'll see the name of 
the first CD, a long pause, the name of the second CD, and a summary of 
the transfer at the end.  I don't know how old your local CD's are, but 
one hell of a lot has changed since the initial release.  It might take 
hours over a PPP link.




          HTH.
         Bill


On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Tommy Moore wrote:

> Hi there Bill. Tried this command on my system and I don't get any status 
> messages or data transfer over the ppp link.

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Tommy Moore]

HI Bill.
I tried it a few times and got it to work I believe.
The date stamp didn't change and the dates on your images are newer than 
mine.

Tommy


-- 
Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important
stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)
        -- Linus Torvalds, about his failing hard drive on
linux.cs.helsinki.fi

Re: RH7.2 w/Speakup enabled

[Gregory Nowak]

Tommy, wheredid you get that quote by Linus from that's in your signature? I've got a fancy for it, it makes me smile.
Greg


On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 07:50:06AM -0500, Tommy Moore wrote:
> HI guys.
> Asked this question about a week ago but didn't see any messages back on 
> it.
> I have a copy of the two iso images.
> What is the rsync command to keep the two images I have current? I don't 
> want to do the entire directory, just the two binary iso files.
> 
> Tommy
> 
> 
> -- 
> Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important
> stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)
>         -- Linus Torvalds, about his failing hard drive on
> linux.cs.helsinki.fi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Kirk Wood]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> On the other hand, do we really want to allow js into our machines? Are we 
> really willing to let any old web site execute code on our machines? Isn't 
> js a security vulnerability waiting to happen? I rather think someone will 
> devise some kind of virus delivered via js before two many more years go 
> by. What then? Will the press run stories like "How come they didn't tell 
> us?"

If implimented the way it was intended it is safe. It is a scripting
language intended to be limited to working with the current document and
data associated therein. There has been a "virus" using javascript. It
used the evil "Windows Scripting Host" that macroslop so ingeniously
introduced quietly so nobody would realize.

Code is already run when you view a web page. The reality is that the html
tags are in effect scripting for the page.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

One of the most overlooked advantages to computers is...  If they do
foul up, there's no law against whacking them around a little.
	-- Joe Martin

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Geoff Shang]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> On the other hand, do we really want to allow js into our machines? Are we
> really willing to let any old web site execute code on our machines?

Well, javascript itself is a fairly harmless language.  You can't really
get access to much of the PC outside the browser in vanilla javascript.  I
couldn't comment on microsoft's extentions however.  Of course, you'd want
javascript support to be added in such a way that you could turn it on and
off at will.

Geoff.

Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?

[Thomas Ward]

Fortunately, if there are virus's ever designed in js 99% of them will
effect MS Windows machines. Which is another reason I have put alot of time
and energy into Linux.
There are of course a couple of worms that can take down a Linux system, but
that number is a microscopic example of the 50,000 Windows worms, virus's,
and other system destroyers out there.
Unfortunately, js is here to stay as far as the academic world of CS is
concerned, and we have to be willing to use it or simply not use that site.

----- Original Message -----
From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Web Browsers with Javascript?


> Steve:
>
> I am not aware of any js support available to us. Perhaps Mozilla 6, when
> we finally get access to GNOME. You are correct that it is becoming very
> difficult to use the web without js.
>
> On the other hand, do we really want to allow js into our machines? Are we
> really willing to let any old web site execute code on our machines? Isn't
> js a security vulnerability waiting to happen? I rather think someone will
> devise some kind of virus delivered via js before two many more years go
> by. What then? Will the press run stories like "How come they didn't tell
> us?"
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
>
> > This may be old hat by now but I just want to be sure.  Are there any
> > accessible browsers for Linux that support javascript? I know lynx
doesn't
> > and I doubt w3 for Emacs does either.  I think javascript is here to
stay
> > and I am emensely disappointed that lynx has never gotten javascript
going
> > in their development.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: interesting experiment.

[Janina Sajka]

OK, let's take this one question at a time ...

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Are there any games accessible for the blind under Linux, like under
> Windows?
> Please tell me some web addresses.

I was with you until you said "like Windows." I have no idea
about Windows. I know nothing about it.

But, if you want games, you can find them. Maybe they're better,
maybe not. But they're out there. Emacs comes with games, and
some are speech enabled by emacspeak. The only game I really know
much about is gnu chess which can be obtained from
http://www.gnu.org.

I'm generally too interested in things to play games on my
computer. Last thing I'm likely to do, so I'm out of knowledge
here.

> Are there any good sound editing programs for Linux, like Sound Forge, Cool
> Edit, Gold Wave, etc, and programs for creating MIDI music, like Cake Walk?


There's ecasound and sox. Very accessible. And there's
gramophone. I recently came across a java midi patch editor, but
I haven't had the time to get it working yet to find out about
its accessibility. Admitedly, these are less functional than the
Windows apps you mention for many tasks. Is this what you do? Or
are these academic questions?

> Is there a text editor, that has macro features, Regular expressions, the
> ability to save in Windows/Mac/Unix format, etc?

What is Mac format? I've never heard of that. And what is Windows
format?
And, why would you care?

Is there powerful text editing, formatting, scripting? Of course
there is. Far more powerful than in Windows or Mac. There are
probably too many to mention, actually. Linux/Unix has the
proprietary world beat hands down on this one.

Those format questions are themselves silly. You don't need them.
You certainly don't need them to communicate with anyone, or to
print out lovely reports, or design lovely e-content for on line
publishing, etc.

In fact, you do better to forget them and use the superior tools
available on Linux.

> 
> ... Just a few things that camed to mind.
> 
> A lot of things are accessible, but ... harder to learn, harder to configure
> and harder to use, if I am not so bright to remember 1000 command line
> parameters.

Give me a break. Grow up. How do you remember 1,000 dialog boxes.
How do you remember where to tell windows to show extensions to
files, for example. Or how about finding your ethernet card's mac
address. Do you remember that? I could go on. This is another
bogus argument.

But, if you think the gui is actually superior, you're going to
lose this excuse soon enough. GNOME is coming. What sad song are
you going to sing then?

> 
> Thank you for the links.
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: interesting experiment.
> 
> 
> On Sat, 18 May 2002, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
> > I just wish Linux were
> > a more viable general purpose workstation; I use Windows for that purpose.
> >
> Hi, Darrell:
> 
> Just wondering what you think is missing from Linux' desktop
> applications.
> 
> In case this sounds loaded, it might be. The underlying question
> might be: Is it your knowledge deficit, or is it Linux itself?
> For my own experience in this matter, I've found it's my
> knowledge deficit almost without exception.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: interesting experiment.

[Octavian Rasnita]

Hi, thanks.

If you know a good text editor under Linux please tell me.
I really need one, but I couldn't find one better than pico.
I need it for editing Perl programs, not a word processor.

Well, under Windows, you don't need to remember anything at all.
You open a window, and it explains you what you should do there.
You have to press the space bar to check some checkboxes, to press some
buttons, etc, and if you don't know something, press shift+f10 (or the right
mouse button and choose "what's this?" or press F1 to view the help file
wich is much much more easier to navigate than the man pages under Linux.

Thanks.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: interesting experiment.


OK, let's take this one question at a time ...

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Are there any games accessible for the blind under Linux, like under
> Windows?
> Please tell me some web addresses.

I was with you until you said "like Windows." I have no idea
about Windows. I know nothing about it.

But, if you want games, you can find them. Maybe they're better,
maybe not. But they're out there. Emacs comes with games, and
some are speech enabled by emacspeak. The only game I really know
much about is gnu chess which can be obtained from
http://www.gnu.org.

I'm generally too interested in things to play games on my
computer. Last thing I'm likely to do, so I'm out of knowledge
here.

> Are there any good sound editing programs for Linux, like Sound Forge,
Cool
> Edit, Gold Wave, etc, and programs for creating MIDI music, like Cake
Walk?


There's ecasound and sox. Very accessible. And there's
gramophone. I recently came across a java midi patch editor, but
I haven't had the time to get it working yet to find out about
its accessibility. Admitedly, these are less functional than the
Windows apps you mention for many tasks. Is this what you do? Or
are these academic questions?

> Is there a text editor, that has macro features, Regular expressions, the
> ability to save in Windows/Mac/Unix format, etc?

What is Mac format? I've never heard of that. And what is Windows
format?
And, why would you care?

Is there powerful text editing, formatting, scripting? Of course
there is. Far more powerful than in Windows or Mac. There are
probably too many to mention, actually. Linux/Unix has the
proprietary world beat hands down on this one.

Those format questions are themselves silly. You don't need them.
You certainly don't need them to communicate with anyone, or to
print out lovely reports, or design lovely e-content for on line
publishing, etc.

In fact, you do better to forget them and use the superior tools
available on Linux.

>
> ... Just a few things that camed to mind.
>
> A lot of things are accessible, but ... harder to learn, harder to
configure
> and harder to use, if I am not so bright to remember 1000 command line
> parameters.

Give me a break. Grow up. How do you remember 1,000 dialog boxes.
How do you remember where to tell windows to show extensions to
files, for example. Or how about finding your ethernet card's mac
address. Do you remember that? I could go on. This is another
bogus argument.

But, if you think the gui is actually superior, you're going to
lose this excuse soon enough. GNOME is coming. What sad song are
you going to sing then?

>
> Thank you for the links.
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: interesting experiment.
>
>
> On Sat, 18 May 2002, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
> > I just wish Linux were
> > a more viable general purpose workstation; I use Windows for that
purpose.
> >
> Hi, Darrell:
>
> Just wondering what you think is missing from Linux' desktop
> applications.
>
> In case this sounds loaded, it might be. The underlying question
> might be: Is it your knowledge deficit, or is it Linux itself?
> For my own experience in this matter, I've found it's my
> knowledge deficit almost without exception.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Subject Lines

[Rich Caloggero]

I don't usually gripe about this, but try and keep subject lines pertinent.

Thanx.

                    Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: 18 May, 2002 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: interesting experiment.


Hi, thanks.

If you know a good text editor under Linux please tell me.
I really need one, but I couldn't find one better than pico.
I need it for editing Perl programs, not a word processor.

Well, under Windows, you don't need to remember anything at all.
You open a window, and it explains you what you should do there.
You have to press the space bar to check some checkboxes, to press some
buttons, etc, and if you don't know something, press shift+f10 (or the right
mouse button and choose "what's this?" or press F1 to view the help file
wich is much much more easier to navigate than the man pages under Linux.

Thanks.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: interesting experiment.


OK, let's take this one question at a time ...

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Are there any games accessible for the blind under Linux, like under
> Windows?
> Please tell me some web addresses.

I was with you until you said "like Windows." I have no idea
about Windows. I know nothing about it.

But, if you want games, you can find them. Maybe they're better,
maybe not. But they're out there. Emacs comes with games, and
some are speech enabled by emacspeak. The only game I really know
much about is gnu chess which can be obtained from
http://www.gnu.org.

I'm generally too interested in things to play games on my
computer. Last thing I'm likely to do, so I'm out of knowledge
here.

> Are there any good sound editing programs for Linux, like Sound Forge,
Cool
> Edit, Gold Wave, etc, and programs for creating MIDI music, like Cake
Walk?


There's ecasound and sox. Very accessible. And there's
gramophone. I recently came across a java midi patch editor, but
I haven't had the time to get it working yet to find out about
its accessibility. Admitedly, these are less functional than the
Windows apps you mention for many tasks. Is this what you do? Or
are these academic questions?

> Is there a text editor, that has macro features, Regular expressions, the
> ability to save in Windows/Mac/Unix format, etc?

What is Mac format? I've never heard of that. And what is Windows
format?
And, why would you care?

Is there powerful text editing, formatting, scripting? Of course
there is. Far more powerful than in Windows or Mac. There are
probably too many to mention, actually. Linux/Unix has the
proprietary world beat hands down on this one.

Those format questions are themselves silly. You don't need them.
You certainly don't need them to communicate with anyone, or to
print out lovely reports, or design lovely e-content for on line
publishing, etc.

In fact, you do better to forget them and use the superior tools
available on Linux.

>
> ... Just a few things that camed to mind.
>
> A lot of things are accessible, but ... harder to learn, harder to
configure
> and harder to use, if I am not so bright to remember 1000 command line
> parameters.

Give me a break. Grow up. How do you remember 1,000 dialog boxes.
How do you remember where to tell windows to show extensions to
files, for example. Or how about finding your ethernet card's mac
address. Do you remember that? I could go on. This is another
bogus argument.

But, if you think the gui is actually superior, you're going to
lose this excuse soon enough. GNOME is coming. What sad song are
you going to sing then?

>
> Thank you for the links.
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: interesting experiment.
>
>
> On Sat, 18 May 2002, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
> > I just wish Linux were
> > a more viable general purpose workstation; I use Windows for that
purpose.
> >
> Hi, Darrell:
>
> Just wondering what you think is missing from Linux' desktop
> applications.
>
> In case this sounds loaded, it might be. The underlying question
> might be: Is it your knowledge deficit, or is it Linux itself?
> For my own experience in this matter, I've found it's my
> knowledge deficit almost without exception.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Subject Lines

[David Poehlman]

if the show fits.  your subject of why windows should have been a bit
clearer.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Caloggero" <rjc@MIT.EDU>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 3:26 AM
Subject: Subject Lines


I don't usually gripe about this, but try and keep subject lines
pertinent.

Thanx.

                    Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: 18 May, 2002 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: interesting experiment.


Hi, thanks.

If you know a good text editor under Linux please tell me.
I really need one, but I couldn't find one better than pico.
I need it for editing Perl programs, not a word processor.

Well, under Windows, you don't need to remember anything at all.
You open a window, and it explains you what you should do there.
You have to press the space bar to check some checkboxes, to press some
buttons, etc, and if you don't know something, press shift+f10 (or the
right
mouse button and choose "what's this?" or press F1 to view the help file
wich is much much more easier to navigate than the man pages under
Linux.

Thanks.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: interesting experiment.


OK, let's take this one question at a time ...

On Sun, 19 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Are there any games accessible for the blind under Linux, like under
> Windows?
> Please tell me some web addresses.

I was with you until you said "like Windows." I have no idea
about Windows. I know nothing about it.

But, if you want games, you can find them. Maybe they're better,
maybe not. But they're out there. Emacs comes with games, and
some are speech enabled by emacspeak. The only game I really know
much about is gnu chess which can be obtained from
http://www.gnu.org.

I'm generally too interested in things to play games on my
computer. Last thing I'm likely to do, so I'm out of knowledge
here.

> Are there any good sound editing programs for Linux, like Sound Forge,
Cool
> Edit, Gold Wave, etc, and programs for creating MIDI music, like Cake
Walk?


There's ecasound and sox. Very accessible. And there's
gramophone. I recently came across a java midi patch editor, but
I haven't had the time to get it working yet to find out about
its accessibility. Admitedly, these are less functional than the
Windows apps you mention for many tasks. Is this what you do? Or
are these academic questions?

> Is there a text editor, that has macro features, Regular expressions,
the
> ability to save in Windows/Mac/Unix format, etc?

What is Mac format? I've never heard of that. And what is Windows
format?
And, why would you care?

Is there powerful text editing, formatting, scripting? Of course
there is. Far more powerful than in Windows or Mac. There are
probably too many to mention, actually. Linux/Unix has the
proprietary world beat hands down on this one.

Those format questions are themselves silly. You don't need them.
You certainly don't need them to communicate with anyone, or to
print out lovely reports, or design lovely e-content for on line
publishing, etc.

In fact, you do better to forget them and use the superior tools
available on Linux.

>
> ... Just a few things that camed to mind.
>
> A lot of things are accessible, but ... harder to learn, harder to
configure
> and harder to use, if I am not so bright to remember 1000 command line
> parameters.

Give me a break. Grow up. How do you remember 1,000 dialog boxes.
How do you remember where to tell windows to show extensions to
files, for example. Or how about finding your ethernet card's mac
address. Do you remember that? I could go on. This is another
bogus argument.

But, if you think the gui is actually superior, you're going to
lose this excuse soon enough. GNOME is coming. What sad song are
you going to sing then?

>
> Thank you for the links.
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: interesting experiment.
>
>
> On Sat, 18 May 2002, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
> > I just wish Linux were
> > a more viable general purpose workstation; I use Windows for that
purpose.
> >
> Hi, Darrell:
>
> Just wondering what you think is missing from Linux' desktop
> applications.
>
> In case this sounds loaded, it might be. The underlying question
> might be: Is it your knowledge deficit, or is it Linux itself?
> For my own experience in this matter, I've found it's my
> knowledge deficit almost without exception.
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
--
> ----
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup






_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup