Re: seeking advice for speeders

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Terry D. Cudney]

Hi Chuck,

	For what it's worth, my experience with Rogers Cable and now Sympatico DSL:

	I used Rogers Cable (DHCP) for about two years and was quite happy with it until they started to raise their prices and the performance to deteriorate. As more people (locally) started to use the cable service, things really started to slow down, expecially at peak hours. There were times when I'd get equal or better throughput from my old 56k dialup modem. As I understand it, all the users connected on the local leg of the cable system share the available bandwidth. The more people connected (and doing transfers) the slower things get for each individual.

	Now, with Sympatico, (ADSL), there is a direct line from me to the local switching office. There is still slowdown at peak hours (the whole 'net slows down at some hours of the day, usually 4-8 pm), but the slowdown is not as severe as it was with cable. As well for me, DSL has worked out to be cheaper on a monthly rate. ADSL uses PPP over Ethernet protocol.

	DHCP is readily available as part of (I think all) the distributions. PPPoE is alfso readily available from several places, although, to my knowledge it's not part of any distribution. One place to get the  PPPoE package is www.roaringpenguin.com (thanks Kirk!).

	Your mileage will surely vary.

	HTH,

		--terry

Name:	Terry D. Cudney
Phone:	(905)735-6127
E-mail:	terry@wasagacottage.com
Web:	www.wasagacottage.com

seeking advice for speeders

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Hi gang -

I am getting unhappy with my 56k dialup method and want to switch either
to cable or to DSL. I can do both in the area where I live - or rather I
can do _either_ - and I would appreciate it if someone could outline for
me the considerations in choosing between the two. I cannot expect much
support either from my cable company or from my phone company on the Linux
side. My present ISP is affiliated with our cable TV provider and if
possible I want to stay with them. They are parochial but worthy. My sense
is that a reliable local ISP is a better bet than a nationwide access
super provider.

Tha;nks for any advice.

Chuck


Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh  (Yahoo ID: hallenbeck2002)
The Moon is Waning Crescent (48% of Full)

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Richard Villa]

I had a choice and decided to go with DSL.  If you go with cable, your speed
can at times degrade due to the number of users on the line.

The only time that I have seen any reduced speed, is when the net itself is
busy.

Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Hallenbeck" <chuckh@mhonline.net>
To: "Speakup Distribution List" <speakup@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 6:50 PM
Subject: seeking advice for speeders


> Hi gang -
>
> I am getting unhappy with my 56k dialup method and want to switch either
> to cable or to DSL. I can do both in the area where I live - or rather I
> can do _either_ - and I would appreciate it if someone could outline for
> me the considerations in choosing between the two. I cannot expect much
> support either from my cable company or from my phone company on the Linux
> side. My present ISP is affiliated with our cable TV provider and if
> possible I want to stay with them. They are parochial but worthy. My sense
> is that a reliable local ISP is a better bet than a nationwide access
> super provider.
>
> Tha;nks for any advice.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh  (Yahoo ID: hallenbeck2002)
> The Moon is Waning Crescent (48% of Full)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

seeking advice for speeders

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Chuck, I think that your perception that it is the difference in tech
support that matters is a good one.  I can't give you any techie info
on cable e.g. how to connect, how to set up mail and so on.  but I do
know that lots of people have cable.  I'm going DSL because it's my
current ISP, and I understand that their techies are all Linux fans.
There main techie, according to rumor, "will use nothing but
linux...".  So, I think I'm in good case.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Kirk Wood]

I have been on ATT@Home now for over three years. I have to say that
overall I have been quite happy with the service. Another near me has also
had good luck once he got it installed (it was a nightmare to get
installed in his case). But he has had good luck. His area went to truely
dynamic IPs, but gave him a static one when he called.

They won't really support Linux. And you will need a winblows box if you
want to even report service interuption. But other then a period of a few
months I have had little problem. I have my linux box setup with the ip
they gave me. They prefer me to use DHCP, but it isn't required.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
If you're too open minded, your brains will fall out.

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Kirk Wood]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Richard Villa wrote:
> I had a choice and decided to go with DSL.  If you go with cable, your speed
> can at times degrade due to the number of users on the line.

Sorry, but can't let this crap fly. *All* connections can slow due to
number of connections. Further, many people at work share a T1 line and
don't seem to have this problem. For this affect to be noticed, you would
literally need every person on your loop to decide to hit the net
feverishly. I have never had this problem in three years.

Now for the simple facts. The DSL is typically a little slower in the
first place. Often the DSL is artificially held at a lower rate then the
line supports. They meter you to not be able to get more then you pay for.

Finally, the most important thing is to remember that eventually you share
bandwidth. The ISP absolutely has to sell more bandwidth then they
actually pay for to make themselves profitable. Thus if every subscriber
hits the lines at a given time, the ISP will slow to a crawl. Simple
economics will prove this. Consider that a T1 costs close to $1000 a
month. The ISP portion of DSL typically runs $10 to $15 a month for a
384Kbs rate. Thus four subscribers make up the purchase of a single T1
line. Simple math will tell you that for a single T1 line, the ISP must
sell many multiples of their own bandwidth just to pay that portion of
their overhead.

Quite simply, either route you go, you will often notice that one site is
slower then another. You can actually get a feel for how well a given site
is connected versus their data load. In the end, you will share your
bandwidth with your neighbors.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
If you're too open minded, your brains will fall out.

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Terry D. Cudney]

Hi Chuck,

	I'll answer your questions based on my experience:

<---- snipp ---->
-=>  Am I paranoid, or are some of these things suspicious? He
-=> assures me I will not have to change my ISP when I sign up for DSL. He
	What does he mean by ISP? You could keep your ISP and email address that you're using, but unless it's a free one, why would you want ot continue paying for it, when the DSL includes (at least in my case) several email addresses? The advantage would be to retain the same email address that you have. Technically it is do-able, but economically, not practical.


-=> says the modem is free, no installation fee, no hardware needs to be put
-=> inside my machine.
	Many DSL providers have promotions, in which they waive the installation/modem charges. To my knowledge, all DSL modems are connected to your computer via an ethernet cable... thus you need to have an ethernet card put into your computer (unless you already have one in there). Or, maybe someone knows... Is there a DSL modem that connects via USB? Serial/Parallel ports don't have the throughput to work with DSL.


-=> He says the disk that comes with it has software both
-=> for Windows and for Linux systems.
	 Sympatico has a PPPoE package for Linux that I downloaded from their website, but it was not as fast, small, or reliable as the one  I got from roaringpenguin.com. Though they provide a "solution" for Linux, they told me up-front that I was on my own with it, they would provide no support.

-=> He says I can puyt it on my one and
-=> only line (although I presently have two) and use it without affecting
-=> incoming or outgoing voice calls.
	Yes, it all works on one line. You put a filter on every telephone set connected to the line and one on the modem. The filters for the telephones pass the lower frequencies (I think <4kHz), while the one on the modem passes the upper frequencies (>4kHz), thus separating the frequency band for voice/data.

HTH,

		--terry

Name:	Terry D. Cudney
Phone:	(905)735-6127
E-mail:	terry@wasagacottage.com
Web:	www.wasagacottage.com

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Charles Hallenbeck]

I really appreciate all the responses so far -

I had a long talk with a phone company sales rep the other day and he made
the whole thing sound so easy and inexpensive that I now do not believe a
word he told me! Am I paranoid, or are some of these things suspicious? He
assures me I will not have to change my ISP when I sign up for DSL. He
says the modem is free, no installation fee, no hardware needs to be put
inside my machine. He says the disk that comes with it has software both
for Windows and for Linux systems. He says I can puyt it on my one and
only line (although I presently have two) and use it without affecting
incoming or outgoing voice calls.

I understand about bandwidth sharing - the economics and time-of-day
distribution problem, but hell, I have that problem even now occasionally,
although my ISP has greatly improved its throughput in the last year or
so. The system supervisor at my ISP is a Linux freak too
(woops! enthusiast) although the tech support staff is not. He monitors
their email traffic, so when I ask  a question of them he has often
intercepted my queries himself - he says he "looks forward" to my
email. Well hell, I look forward to his too. I have not yet talked to my
ISP about it, because I expect they will badmouth DSL in view of their
promotional stuff right now. The phone company had nothing to say about
cable at all.

The monthly cost for me with DSL would be about twice what I am presently
paying for my second line, which is easily within my budget. I am leaning
toward DSL.

Thanks again - Chuck


Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh  (Yahoo ID: hallenbeck2002)
The Moon is Waning Crescent (44% of Full)

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Chuck, I am going with DSL too.  Reason, I am doing so through my
current ISP.  Also, their techies will handle any questions, not the
phone company!  Yay!!  Also, I understand that the techie department
at Eznet is chuck full of linuxers.  that makes me really happy.
The cable company sorta went, "huh?", when I mentioned Linux.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Gregory Nowak]

Hi Chuck and all,

Ok, I'm actually preparing to jump on the dsl band wagon as well.
You won't have to put any hardware into your pc if you get an external
dsl router. As for the install being free, I don't think I've ever
heard of that before, unless this is some kind of limited time
promotional deal.
If you end up getting dsl, you can get rid of your
second line, since dsl and phone signals can
both go over the same line
(you just put a filter between your garden variety phone
and wall jack to filter the digital signals) (you can of course use your phone while you're on the net).
As for the install, that of course varies from isp to isp.
My isp says that they will handle Linux installs on a case by case basis.
Well, that's just my penny's worth on the subject.
Greg


On Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 07:10:04AM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> I really appreciate all the responses so far -
> 
> I had a long talk with a phone company sales rep the other day and he made
> the whole thing sound so easy and inexpensive that I now do not believe a
> word he told me! Am I paranoid, or are some of these things suspicious? He
> assures me I will not have to change my ISP when I sign up for DSL. He
> says the modem is free, no installation fee, no hardware needs to be put
> inside my machine. He says the disk that comes with it has software both
> for Windows and for Linux systems. He says I can puyt it on my one and
> only line (although I presently have two) and use it without affecting
> incoming or outgoing voice calls.
> 
> I understand about bandwidth sharing - the economics and time-of-day
> distribution problem, but hell, I have that problem even now occasionally,
> although my ISP has greatly improved its throughput in the last year or
> so. The system supervisor at my ISP is a Linux freak too
> (woops! enthusiast) although the tech support staff is not. He monitors
> their email traffic, so when I ask  a question of them he has often
> intercepted my queries himself - he says he "looks forward" to my
> email. Well hell, I look forward to his too. I have not yet talked to my
> ISP about it, because I expect they will badmouth DSL in view of their
> promotional stuff right now. The phone company had nothing to say about
> cable at all.
> 
> The monthly cost for me with DSL would be about twice what I am presently
> paying for my second line, which is easily within my budget. I am leaning
> toward DSL.
> 
> Thanks again - Chuck
> 
> 
> Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh  (Yahoo ID: hallenbeck2002)
> The Moon is Waning Crescent (44% of Full)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Janina Sajka]

Chuck:

You can be happy either way. Which you should do depends mostly on your needs. In particular I would suggest you decide
whether you want a static ip or not, and whether you want to run a home network off your high-speed connection.

There is a national isp that does explicitly support linux and does not mind if you run a network. I speak of
speakeasy.net. Everyone else I've found frowns on, or wants extra money, for multiple machines--even though you do your
own ip masquerading.

Beyond these two factors, speed would be the next priority item, in my opinion. Both cable and radsl can be fast, or
slow, depending on various factors such as how many other users you're sharing a segment with and how far you are from
the phone company's central office (and the quality of the lines) in the case of radsl. Point to remember is that the
advertised rate is not what you'll get, most likely. In fact, the radsl folks will like consider anything above 128K
successful---no matter what you're paying for.

Installation may be another issue--but that's best taken up when you make a decision, I think.

But, go ahead and choose. Fast and persistent net connections just can't be beat. It's a very different experience
knowing you're just always connected.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> Hi gang -
>
> I am getting unhappy with my 56k dialup method and want to switch either
> to cable or to DSL. I can do both in the area where I live - or rather I
> can do _either_ - and I would appreciate it if someone could outline for
> me the considerations in choosing between the two. I cannot expect much
> support either from my cable company or from my phone company on the Linux
> side. My present ISP is affiliated with our cable TV provider and if
> possible I want to stay with them. They are parochial but worthy. My sense
> is that a reliable local ISP is a better bet than a nationwide access
> super provider.
>
> Tha;nks for any advice.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh  (Yahoo ID: hallenbeck2002)
> The Moon is Waning Crescent (48% of Full)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.html

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at http://www.afb.org/technology/accessapp.html

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Janina Sajka]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Ann Parsons wrote:

> support that matters is a good one.  I can't give you any techie info
> on cable e.g. how to connect, how to set up mail and so on.  but I do

No, no, no ... mail and web and all those services have nothing to do with the type of connection.

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Janina Sajka]

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> I really appreciate all the responses so far -
>
> I had a long talk with a phone company sales rep the other day and he made
> the whole thing sound so easy and inexpensive that I now do not believe a
> word he told me! Am I paranoid, or are some of these things suspicious? He
> assures me I will not have to change my ISP when I sign up for DSL. He
> says the modem is free, no installation fee, no hardware needs to be put
> inside my machine. He says the disk that comes with it has software both
> for Windows and for Linux systems. He says I can puyt it on my one and
> only line (although I presently have two) and use it without affecting
> incoming or outgoing voice calls.
>
> I understand about bandwidth sharing - the economics and time-of-day
> distribution problem, but hell, I have that problem even now occasionally,
> although my ISP has greatly improved its throughput in the last year or
> so. The system supervisor at my ISP is a Linux freak too
> (woops! enthusiast) although the tech support staff is not. He monitors
> their email traffic, so when I ask  a question of them he has often
> intercepted my queries himself - he says he "looks forward" to my
> email. Well hell, I look forward to his too. I have not yet talked to my
> ISP about it, because I expect they will badmouth DSL in view of their
> promotional stuff right now. The phone company had nothing to say about
> cable at all.
>
> The monthly cost for me with DSL would be about twice what I am presently
> paying for my second line, which is easily within my budget. I am leaning
> toward DSL.
>
> Thanks again - Chuck
>
>
> Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh  (Yahoo ID: hallenbeck2002)
> The Moon is Waning Crescent (44% of Full)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.html

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at http://www.afb.org/technology/accessapp.html

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, there are dsl routers that connect to the usb port.
However, I don't know if there is Linux support for them.
Also, from what I've heard, there are
internal dsl routers that are a nic and router in one 
(E.G. they don't connect to a nic or usb port),
you connect the phone line to them as you would to an external or usb router.
Greg


On Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 04:54:18AM -0400, Terry D. Cudney wrote:
> Hi Chuck,
> 
> 	I'll answer your questions based on my experience:
> 
> <---- snipp ---->
> -=>  Am I paranoid, or are some of these things suspicious? He
> -=> assures me I will not have to change my ISP when I sign up for DSL. He
> 	What does he mean by ISP? You could keep your ISP and email address that you're using, but unless it's a free one, why would you want ot continue paying for it, when the DSL includes (at least in my case) several email addresses? The advantage would be to retain the same email address that you have. Technically it is do-able, but economically, not practical.
> 
> 
> -=> says the modem is free, no installation fee, no hardware needs to be put
> -=> inside my machine.
> 	Many DSL providers have promotions, in which they waive the installation/modem charges. To my knowledge, all DSL modems are connected to your computer via an ethernet cable... thus you need to have an ethernet card put into your computer (unless you already have one in there). Or, maybe someone knows... Is there a DSL modem that connects via USB? Serial/Parallel ports don't have the throughput to work with DSL.
> 
> 
> -=> He says the disk that comes with it has software both
> -=> for Windows and for Linux systems.
> 	 Sympatico has a PPPoE package for Linux that I downloaded from their website, but it was not as fast, small, or reliable as the one  I got from roaringpenguin.com. Though they provide a "solution" for Linux, they told me up-front that I was on my own with it, they would provide no support.
> 
> -=> He says I can puyt it on my one and
> -=> only line (although I presently have two) and use it without affecting
> -=> incoming or outgoing voice calls.
> 	Yes, it all works on one line. You put a filter on every telephone set connected to the line and one on the modem. The filters for the telephones pass the lower frequencies (I think <4kHz), while the one on the modem passes the upper frequencies (>4kHz), thus separating the frequency band for voice/data.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> 		--terry
> 
> Name:	Terry D. Cudney
> Phone:	(905)735-6127
> E-mail:	terry@wasagacottage.com
> Web:	www.wasagacottage.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Kirk Wood]

Charles (and others),

Sometimes going to DSL is easy. Sometimes it is a nightmare. But to make
sure, always order your DSL line through the ISP that you intend to
use. I have never heard of a phone company giving you a disk if they were
not the ISP. (Then again, I can't imagine any company giving out software
if they aren't the ISP involved.) I would guess there is at least a good
chance your ISP can work with you on either means of broadband.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
If you're too open minded, your brains will fall out.

DSL modems

[Kirk Wood]

There are three means that I know of to connect your PC to DSL. The first
is that the DSL modem has an ethernet port on it. Actually though most of
these are wired the same as an ethernet hub. (Thus if you then connect it
to a hub it needs to be in either the uplink port, or use a cross over
cable.) The next is a modem that connects via USB port. Then there are
internal varieties.

I would recomend that you ensure you get the ethernet variety. All others
depend on your OS to work properly.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
If you're too open minded, your brains will fall out.

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Once again let me give a blanket thanks instead of replying or commenting
on each separate posting on this subject. I begin to get a feel for the
issues and appreciate all your thoughtful recommendations. No question
about it, I next need to talk to my ISP - I really do want to stay with
them.

Chuck



Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh  (Yahoo ID: hallenbeck2002)
The Moon is Waning Crescent (38% of Full)

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Gregory Nowak]

If you're running ipmasq. can your isp run a tracer on you and
catch you?
Greg


On Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 03:18:23PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Chuck:
> 
> You can be happy either way. Which you should do depends mostly on your needs. In particular I would suggest you decide
> whether you want a static ip or not, and whether you want to run a home network off your high-speed connection.
> 
> There is a national isp that does explicitly support linux and does not mind if you run a network. I speak of
> speakeasy.net. Everyone else I've found frowns on, or wants extra money, for multiple machines--even though you do your
> own ip masquerading.
> 
> Beyond these two factors, speed would be the next priority item, in my opinion. Both cable and radsl can be fast, or
> slow, depending on various factors such as how many other users you're sharing a segment with and how far you are from
> the phone company's central office (and the quality of the lines) in the case of radsl. Point to remember is that the
> advertised rate is not what you'll get, most likely. In fact, the radsl folks will like consider anything above 128K
> successful---no matter what you're paying for.
> 
> Installation may be another issue--but that's best taken up when you make a decision, I think.
> 
> But, go ahead and choose. Fast and persistent net connections just can't be beat. It's a very different experience
> knowing you're just always connected.
> 
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> 
> > Hi gang -
> >
> > I am getting unhappy with my 56k dialup method and want to switch either
> > to cable or to DSL. I can do both in the area where I live - or rather I
> > can do _either_ - and I would appreciate it if someone could outline for
> > me the considerations in choosing between the two. I cannot expect much
> > support either from my cable company or from my phone company on the Linux
> > side. My present ISP is affiliated with our cable TV provider and if
> > possible I want to stay with them. They are parochial but worthy. My sense
> > is that a reliable local ISP is a better bet than a nationwide access
> > super provider.
> >
> > Tha;nks for any advice.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> > Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh  (Yahoo ID: hallenbeck2002)
> > The Moon is Waning Crescent (48% of Full)
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> -- 
> 
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
> Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.html
> 
> Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
> King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
> http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp
> 
> Learn how to make accessible software at http://www.afb.org/technology/accessapp.html
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
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Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Gregory Nowak]

It is the phone company that connects your lines for dsl,
even if you use the isp 
(the isp still relys on the phone company for that).
If in the future there should be a technical problem with
your dsl line,
some isps make you deal with the
phone company directly to get it solved
rather then taking that responsibility upon themselves.
Greg


On Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 05:48:19PM -0500, Kirk Wood wrote:
> Charles (and others),
> 
> Sometimes going to DSL is easy. Sometimes it is a nightmare. But to make
> sure, always order your DSL line through the ISP that you intend to
> use. I have never heard of a phone company giving you a disk if they were
> not the ISP. (Then again, I can't imagine any company giving out software
> if they aren't the ISP involved.) I would guess there is at least a good
> chance your ISP can work with you on either means of broadband.
> 
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> 
> The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
> If you're too open minded, your brains will fall out.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: DSL modems

[Gregory Nowak]

On the internal kind, what's on
the mounting bracket of thoes,
just a hook up for the phone line, right?
Greg


On Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 06:05:26PM -0500, Kirk Wood wrote:
> There are three means that I know of to connect your PC to DSL. The first
> is that the DSL modem has an ethernet port on it. Actually though most of
> these are wired the same as an ethernet hub. (Thus if you then connect it
> to a hub it needs to be in either the uplink port, or use a cross over
> cable.) The next is a modem that connects via USB port. Then there are
> internal varieties.
> 
> I would recomend that you ensure you get the ethernet variety. All others
> depend on your OS to work properly.
> 
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> 
> The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
> If you're too open minded, your brains will fall out.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Kirk Wood]

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> If you're running ipmasq. can your isp run a tracer on you and
> catch you?

It would probably be possible by sniffing out the packets and analizing
the http requests. But I have never heard of such a thing being done. It
would be a lot of work just to find someone who had an extra machine or
two. Not to mention that it wouldn't bode well under scrutiny.

Now if you attempt to set yourself up as some sort of ISP and resell the
bandwidth you are asking for trouble. But if you are looking to connect
the few computers you own so you and yours can all surf I would not
concern myself with such things.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
If you're too open minded, your brains will fall out.

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Richard Villa]

If you are worried about being cought, just stick a router between your
machines and modem and you will be set.

Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <romualt@megsinet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: seeking advice for speeders


> If you're running ipmasq. can your isp run a tracer on you and
> catch you?
> Greg
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 03:18:23PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Chuck:
> >
> > You can be happy either way. Which you should do depends mostly on your
needs. In particular I would suggest you decide
> > whether you want a static ip or not, and whether you want to run a home
network off your high-speed connection.
> >
> > There is a national isp that does explicitly support linux and does not
mind if you run a network. I speak of
> > speakeasy.net. Everyone else I've found frowns on, or wants extra money,
for multiple machines--even though you do your
> > own ip masquerading.
> >
> > Beyond these two factors, speed would be the next priority item, in my
opinion. Both cable and radsl can be fast, or
> > slow, depending on various factors such as how many other users you're
sharing a segment with and how far you are from
> > the phone company's central office (and the quality of the lines) in the
case of radsl. Point to remember is that the
> > advertised rate is not what you'll get, most likely. In fact, the radsl
folks will like consider anything above 128K
> > successful---no matter what you're paying for.
> >
> > Installation may be another issue--but that's best taken up when you
make a decision, I think.
> >
> > But, go ahead and choose. Fast and persistent net connections just can't
be beat. It's a very different experience
> > knowing you're just always connected.
> >
> > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> >
> > > Hi gang -
> > >
> > > I am getting unhappy with my 56k dialup method and want to switch
either
> > > to cable or to DSL. I can do both in the area where I live - or rather
I
> > > can do _either_ - and I would appreciate it if someone could outline
for
> > > me the considerations in choosing between the two. I cannot expect
much
> > > support either from my cable company or from my phone company on the
Linux
> > > side. My present ISP is affiliated with our cable TV provider and if
> > > possible I want to stay with them. They are parochial but worthy. My
sense
> > > is that a reliable local ISP is a better bet than a nationwide access
> > > super provider.
> > >
> > > Tha;nks for any advice.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > > Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh  (Yahoo ID:
hallenbeck2002)
> > > The Moon is Waning Crescent (48% of Full)
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> > Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
> > Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.html
> >
> > Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
> > King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
> > http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp
> >
> > Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/technology/accessapp.html
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Janina Sajka]

I've never heard of anyone being busted for doing this, but I have also
seen isps with explicit policies against it. So, I doubt they'd go after
anyone in particular without some extrinsic reason. But, why challenge the
point? Why not just go with a provider that explicitly supports linux and
home networking?

\ On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Kirk Wood wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > If you're running ipmasq. can your isp run a tracer on you and
> > catch you?
>
> It would probably be possible by sniffing out the packets and analizing
> the http requests. But I have never heard of such a thing being done. It
> would be a lot of work just to find someone who had an extra machine or
> two. Not to mention that it wouldn't bode well under scrutiny.
>
> Now if you attempt to set yourself up as some sort of ISP and resell the
> bandwidth you are asking for trouble. But if you are looking to connect
> the few computers you own so you and yours can all surf I would not
> concern myself with such things.
>
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
> The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
> If you're too open minded, your brains will fall out.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.html

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at http://www.afb.org/technology/accessapp.html

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Hi.  I know I'm late on this subject but as a user of both dsl and cable and as an employee for Sprint Broadband I'll add my 2 cents worth.  From what I've 
noticed with cable users is that the more people using your particular segment of your service the slower it will be but this means everyone will have to be 
using the net pretty hard to notice.  Also if you are a big downloader and so is your neighbor using the same segment your speeds will slow down 
considerablly.  I have not used the home services but I have used and am currently using Road Runner.  If I had to rate them on tech support I would give 
them a 1 because they don't seem to know which way is up.  This is even telling them I have windows.  I don't even want to mention that dreaded word 
Linux to them.  Their performance however is rated at a 9.  I've only had one outage and my through put has been excellent.  The other day I downloaded 3 
iso images at the same time and had blazing speeds at around 2.5 megabits per second on all 3 downloads.  Right now the reason I'm using rr.com is 
because I'm waiting for my Sprint ION service to get installed wich is a static IP address as well as 8.0 megabit bandwidth capability, a phone line and lond 
distance minutes all bundled up in to one.  The isp portion of the dsl is Earthlink.net and before moving to my current location I used Earthlink.net for dsl and 
that was only down once.  The through put was awesome usually rated at around 1.5 megabits per second.  I've seen that over all cable will be faster than 
dsl especially because dsl is controlled at the speeds you are allowed to get and is definitely distant dependent.  However for me dsl has been more stable 
than cable even though cable has been faster.  I would rather go with stability than randomness.  In the end I get a discount on Sprint ION so that also was 
a deciding factor.  When it comes down to it though I've only once had a tech support person even know what Linux is and was able to help and suggest 
on things.  But you can't count on that.  If you choose dsl you will get a promo sometimes of free equipment, installation, etc.  usually that is on the 
requirement that you stick with the service for 12 months or 6 months.  With cable though I've hardly seen any requirements and the installation takes far 
less time to schedule and get done.

Hope all this helps.  Best regards.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:50:40 -0400 (EDT), Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

>Hi gang -
>
>I am getting unhappy with my 56k dialup method and want to switch either
>to cable or to DSL. I can do both in the area where I live - or rather I
>can do _either_ - and I would appreciate it if someone could outline for
>me the considerations in choosing between the two. I cannot expect much
>support either from my cable company or from my phone company on the Linux
>side. My present ISP is affiliated with our cable TV provider and if
>possible I want to stay with them. They are parochial but worthy. My sense
>is that a reliable local ISP is a better bet than a nationwide access
>super provider.
>
>Tha;nks for any advice.
>
>Chuck
>
>
>Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh  (Yahoo ID: hallenbeck2002)
>The Moon is Waning Crescent (48% of Full)
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>



Raul A. Gallegos -- raul@asmodean.net
msn id: ragallegos@hotmail.com -- icq: 5283055
http://www.asmodean.net

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Gregory Nowak]

I'm only looking to use my Linux box
to ipmasq a couple windows machines.
If however, after talking to my isp about their various dsl conditions
I discover that they don't allow connection sharing,
then does your message below still apply?
Greg


On Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 10:57:19PM -0500, Kirk Wood wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > If you're running ipmasq. can your isp run a tracer on you and
> > catch you?
> 
> It would probably be possible by sniffing out the packets and analizing
> the http requests. But I have never heard of such a thing being done. It
> would be a lot of work just to find someone who had an extra machine or
> two. Not to mention that it wouldn't bode well under scrutiny.
> 
> Now if you attempt to set yourself up as some sort of ISP and resell the
> bandwidth you are asking for trouble. But if you are looking to connect
> the few computers you own so you and yours can all surf I would not
> concern myself with such things.
> 
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> 
> The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
> If you're too open minded, your brains will fall out.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: seeking advice for speeders

[Frank Carmickle]

Hello people

Maybe someone can look at your traffic but that doesn't change
anything.  The point of ipmasqing is to make it look as the all packets
are going from and to 1 address.  So I may load 14 pages at
once.  So!  Don't even concern yourself with wondering about it unless you
really want to know how it works.  Then just have a look at the code.


On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> I'm only looking to use my Linux box
> to ipmasq a couple windows machines.

-- 
     Frank Carmickle
phone:     412 761-9568
email:     frankiec@dryrose.com

dsl modems

[philwh]

There is also a dsl modem that uses a
straight through cat 5 cable.
the speedstream seems to use this kind
of cable.

phil