w3 not working

w3 not working

[Gregory Nowak]

Hi all,

I've just installed emacs/w3 with no errors.
According to the w3 info page, typing the meta key x to get the command prompt, and then typing w3 and hitting enter should bring up the brouser.
However, this doesn't happen. Any ideas why? Thanks.
Greg

Re: w3 not working

[Victor Tsaran]

Greg,
what happens then?
One thing you might want to do is to insert a command into your .emacs file
which has to do with the browse-url function. Please send me private e-mail
so that I can look the command up for you.
Best,
Vic

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <romualt@megsinet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 5:41 PM
Subject: w3 not working


> Hi all,
>
> I've just installed emacs/w3 with no errors.
> According to the w3 info page, typing the meta key x to get the command
prompt, and then typing w3 and hitting enter should bring up the brouser.
> However, this doesn't happen. Any ideas why? Thanks.
> Greg
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: w3 not working

[Janina Sajka]

On a related note, where does one get the W3 browser? Thanks.

Re: w3 not working

[Victor Tsaran]

Janina Sajka writes:
 > On a related note, where does one get the W3 browser? Thanks.
You can either get it from www.rpmfind.net or from www.xemacs.org
Best,
Victor

 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Speakup mailing list
 > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
 > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Help the Floundering Newbie!

[rjc]

OK, I'm still very confused about all of this. Perhaps if I describe my
ultimate goals and what I see as my choices for accessing the linux
environment, all you smart folks out there might have a better shot at
helping me out -- so here goes!

I want to be able to configure and administer a typical database
driven website. Most likely, we'll use Apache, MySQL, and some combination
of Perl and PHP. I've done my share of static html coding and have some
knowledge of Perl and PHP.
I have a background in unix, having done some systems admin and basic
system's level C programming in the 80s on BSD. However, at that time I had
access to a refreshable braille display and had a direct serial connection
to the unix box. The display was a big win, since I could easily deal with
unix speak. Try reading a bash script with synthetic speech, however, and
you'll quickly see one of the reasons I'm so frustrated today... How do you
guys program with speech? Well, ok, writing code is one thing, but reading
other people's code is hard even if your sighted and have been doing it all
your life. How does a blind guy do it effectively with speech?

To accomplish my goal, I need to find a comfortable way of working in linux.
The choices that I have are: remote login from PC with Jaws, local login and
run emacspeak with dectalk on the serial port, local login to a kernel with
SpeakUp compiled into it and dectalk on the serial port.
Remote login might be the only way to go in general, since if I'm going to
be charged with administering this server , the only connection I'll have is
via the network, since the server will not
be in the same building as our office. However, sighted people would use
Exceed or something to run an X server on windows or mac and ssh to linux.
However, all I've got access to is a vt100 emulator and the shell. Working
this way is cumbersome. I don't even have a file browser. Hmm, but how about
Samba (I think that's what its called) which allows mounting of file systems
between windows and linux? This may be my only realistic approach.
Emacspeak and SpeakUp won't help me if I don't have access to the physical
hardware. Any other suggestions? What is emacs server?

Thanx in advance for any words of wisdom!

                    Rich

Re: w3 not working

[Gregory Nowak]

I just went to freshmeat.net, typed in w3, and it was one of the projects that came up.
Greg


On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 07:13:24PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> On a related note, where does one get the W3 browser? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: w3 not working

[Victor Tsaran]

Hi, Greg!
I am sorry for not responding to you earlier about the W3 command.
Here it is:

Put in your .emacs file the following line:
 (browse-url-browser-function (quote browse-url-w3))

Best,
Victor

Gregory Nowak writes:
 > I just went to freshmeat.net, typed in w3, and it was one of the projects that came up.
 > Greg
 > 
 > 
 > On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 07:13:24PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
 > > On a related note, where does one get the W3 browser? Thanks.
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > _______________________________________________
 > > Speakup mailing list
 > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
 > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Speakup mailing list
 > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
 > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Help the Floundering Newbie!

[Kirk Wood]

My question is why can some run X over the network yet you are limited to
one terminal program? If they can run ssh, you should be able to as well.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nothing is hard if you know the answer or are used to doing it.

Re: Help the Floundering Newbie!

[Victor Tsaran]

Hi, Rich!
I think you are right about difficulties of writing the code with speech,
but reading is even more difficult, agree.
I think your best choice would be Emacs with Emacspeak, but as you say, you
will not have access to the physical hardware. In this case, it will
probably be very hard. Unless you can somehow use Windows to access the
shell, I don't see any other alternative to using refreshable Braille
display. I myself would be very happy to get one, but here money is the
biggest issue for me coming from Eastern Europe. The good thing about
Emacs/Emacspeak combination is the availability of speech-enabled modes for
various programming languages such as PERL, C/C++, HTML, Java. There is even
an sql-mysql mode which is very convenient. Can't you somehow get a machine
running Linux with which you could access your organization's network?
Best,
Victor

Re: Help the Floundering Newbie!

[Kirk Reiser]

I have to insert here that I don't understand what the trouble is with
using speech.  I have been developing and modifying code for many many
years and have no problem using synthetic speech.  I don't even tend
to use all punctuation when looking through code.  Code is code and
the structure and rules of each language dictate what one should
expect while looking through the program.  I have had the pleasure of
using braille displays and braille printers and I only use speech
these days.  I believe those who think it will be difficult either
make it difficult by their own concepts or have never done much
coding.  I and many other coders use speech totally for our coding and
have no difficulties what-so-ever.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: Help the Floundering Newbie!

[Charles Hallenbeck]

I agree completely. I have been using speech access since 1978 in one form
or another and find it a very comfortable and convenient medium. I have a
hard time grasping what the problem might be. My only concession to speech
as a medium is that I tend to choose symbolic names in such a way that
they can be pronounced!!!
Chuck




 On 23 May 2001,
Kirk Reiser wrote:

> I have to insert here that I don't understand what the trouble is with
> using speech.  I have been developing and modifying code for many many
> years and have no problem using synthetic speech.  I don't even tend
> to use all punctuation when looking through code.  Code is code and
> the structure and rules of each language dictate what one should
> expect while looking through the program.  I have had the pleasure of
> using braille displays and braille printers and I only use speech
> these days.  I believe those who think it will be difficult either
> make it difficult by their own concepts or have never done much
> coding.  I and many other coders use speech totally for our coding and
> have no difficulties what-so-ever.
> 
>   Kirk
> 
> 

Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh 
The Moon is New

speech for coding

[Raul A. Gallegos]

I had to change the subject to better fit the topic at hand.  Anyway, I
agree with everyone in that coding with speech is easy and for the most
part you don't need to turn on all punctuation.  This is especially true
if you are comfortable in your coding and know what punction to use for
the different programs.

Where I do find punction spoken very helpful is in the cases where I might
have to modify someone else's existing code.  Because we all think
differently we might put semi-colons or commas a little differently in
programs.  Also there are times where I have to do dns work and this
requires named.conf modifications.  Sometimes I don't know what the skills
of the person who started the particular named.conf file are and so
different sections of the file might be placd differently so having that
punction spoken helps.

Once I've changed the file to my personal preference and style and I'm not
debugging it for typo errors I turn off the extra punction speaking.

Just my 2 pannies worth.

Raul A. Gallegos
Email: raul@asmodean.net	icq#: 5283055
msn: ragallegos@hotmail.com	aim: raulagallegos

Re: Help the Floundering Newbie!

[Kirk Wood]

I think the first order of business is to put things back into
perspective.

If you want to work with the console for the development, then procure one
machine for your development activities. This is a good idea anyway. All
of the software mentioned can be installed on your development machine
with no monetary investment beyond the hardware it is running on. Then you
can code with emacspeak. You can code in pico with speakup. Or you can ask
Kirk and some others what they use for development.

The thing is that developing code for a Linux box can easily be done with
whatever you prefer to use. You could write code for your linux machine in
notepad on a windows machine.

If a person comes with a strong unix background then moving to development
on a linux machine should be an easy enough thing to do. Most of those
same tools used before can be used here. 

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nothing is hard if you know the answer or are used to doing it.

Re: speech for coding

[Rich Caloggero]

Hi. I want to first thank everyone who has commented on this. I think much
comes down to personal preference and opinion. However, I think that reading
other people's code is difficult with speech. There coding style may be very
different; the code may be full of unpronouncable names; the personal may
have a totally different way of conceiving the problem and the resulting
code will of course reflect this. Of course, all people reading other
people's code, blind or not, must face similar issues, however I still think
that reading code with cryptic variable names and lots of crazy syntax (perl
anyone) is very hard with speech. If I write my own code, I can choose names
that are pronouncible, and format the code so it matches what I expect, etc.

Again, thanx for all the commentary.

                    Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul@asmodean.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:39 AM
Subject: speech for coding


> I had to change the subject to better fit the topic at hand.  Anyway, I
> agree with everyone in that coding with speech is easy and for the most
> part you don't need to turn on all punctuation.  This is especially true
> if you are comfortable in your coding and know what punction to use for
> the different programs.
>
> Where I do find punction spoken very helpful is in the cases where I might
> have to modify someone else's existing code.  Because we all think
> differently we might put semi-colons or commas a little differently in
> programs.  Also there are times where I have to do dns work and this
> requires named.conf modifications.  Sometimes I don't know what the skills
> of the person who started the particular named.conf file are and so
> different sections of the file might be placd differently so having that
> punction spoken helps.
>
> Once I've changed the file to my personal preference and style and I'm not
> debugging it for typo errors I turn off the extra punction speaking.
>
> Just my 2 pannies worth.
>
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Email: raul@asmodean.net icq#: 5283055
> msn: ragallegos@hotmail.com aim: raulagallegos
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Help the Floundering Newbie!

[Geoff Shang]

On Tue, 22 May 2001, rjc wrote:

> To accomplish my goal, I need to find a comfortable way of working in linux.
> The choices that I have are: remote login from PC with Jaws, local login and
> run emacspeak with dectalk on the serial port, local login to a kernel with
> SpeakUp compiled into it and dectalk on the serial port.

Why not remote login from a PC running speakup?  I must say that this would
be my approach.  But then again, I'm used to using speech and the shell.
If you have a braille display, you might want to check out brltty and see
if your display is supported.  I don't personally see much need for such
things as file browsers and the like, since I find "ls" tells me more than
I want to know already.  But I guess you could always fire up midnight
commander or something like that if you really want to.

Geoff.

Re: speech for coding

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

Of course, the neat thing about speakup is being able to selectively enable
whichever punctuation marks you want to hear.

Geoff.

Re: Help the Floundering Newbie!

[Victor Tsaran]

I think the biggest problem is not with the speech itself but with the
burden on one's ears that it brings. When you write an e-mail, you don't
need to concentrate very much. It is totally opposite when writing a code. A
concentration for more than 4 hours kills me because I have to pay attention
to all kinds of parenthesis,brackets, quotes, semicolons etc. This is why
voice indication, like that with Emacspeak, is very convenient.
Best,
Victor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Help the Floundering Newbie!


> I have to insert here that I don't understand what the trouble is with
> using speech.  I have been developing and modifying code for many many
> years and have no problem using synthetic speech.  I don't even tend
> to use all punctuation when looking through code.  Code is code and
> the structure and rules of each language dictate what one should
> expect while looking through the program.  I have had the pleasure of
> using braille displays and braille printers and I only use speech
> these days.  I believe those who think it will be difficult either
> make it difficult by their own concepts or have never done much
> coding.  I and many other coders use speech totally for our coding and
> have no difficulties what-so-ever.
>
>   Kirk
>
> --
>
> Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Help the Floundering Newbie!

[Victor Tsaran]

Well, MySQL also has WIndows-based administration toolkit and an
command-line client.
Best,
Victor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Holmes, Steve" <SAHolmes@ahcccs.state.az.us>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:02 PM
Subject: RE: Help the Floundering Newbie!


> I think you may have answered some of your own questions already.  For
> remote access, I use Telnet over a network.  I've done this from other
linux
> machines running speakup and from windows telnet clients.  Both methods
> worked well for me.
>
> My total programming experienced involved using an optacon and later
moving
> to speech when it became available.  Speech wins out over the optacon
hands
> down.  Optacon was nice for looking at layout and format.  I could never
> afford braille devices so can't comment on their effectiveness.  I have
all
> punctions turned on in my speech environment so I don't miss the commas
and
> semicolons and stuff.  When I use Window-Eyes in environments like Visual
> Basic, I can use a "mixed case" mode which will properly pronounce complex
> variable names such as SingleMouseClick as "single mouse click" - separate
> words.  Little enhancements like this make programming in a speech
> environment pretty tolerable (to me at least).
>
> One linux compatible database server (postgresql from www.postgres.org)
can
> be coupled into perl scripts and web based applications.  In fact, this
> server can be remote accessed via TCP/IP also.  The default client that
> comes with it is a commandline based thing that works well in a text based
> environment.  In fact, they have a windows client that can be used to
> administer it as well.  I haven't had a chance to check this client out to
> see how accessible it is though.
>
> These ideas don't have much to do with speakup specifically but I hope
they
> are of some help.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rjc [mailto:rjc@MIT.EDU]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:00 AM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Help the Floundering Newbie!
>
>
> OK, I'm still very confused about all of this. Perhaps if I describe my
> ultimate goals and what I see as my choices for accessing the linux
> environment, all you smart folks out there might have a better shot at
> helping me out -- so here goes!
>
> I want to be able to configure and administer a typical database
> driven website. Most likely, we'll use Apache, MySQL, and some combination
> of Perl and PHP. I've done my share of static html coding and have some
> knowledge of Perl and PHP.
> I have a background in unix, having done some systems admin and basic
> system's level C programming in the 80s on BSD. However, at that time I
had
> access to a refreshable braille display and had a direct serial connection
> to the unix box. The display was a big win, since I could easily deal with
> unix speak. Try reading a bash script with synthetic speech, however, and
> you'll quickly see one of the reasons I'm so frustrated today... How do
you
> guys program with speech? Well, ok, writing code is one thing, but reading
> other people's code is hard even if your sighted and have been doing it
all
> your life. How does a blind guy do it effectively with speech?
>
> To accomplish my goal, I need to find a comfortable way of working in
linux.
> The choices that I have are: remote login from PC with Jaws, local login
and
> run emacspeak with dectalk on the serial port, local login to a kernel
with
> SpeakUp compiled into it and dectalk on the serial port.
> Remote login might be the only way to go in general, since if I'm going to
> be charged with administering this server , the only connection I'll have
is
> via the network, since the server will not
> be in the same building as our office. However, sighted people would use
> Exceed or something to run an X server on windows or mac and ssh to linux.
> However, all I've got access to is a vt100 emulator and the shell. Working
> this way is cumbersome. I don't even have a file browser. Hmm, but how
about
> Samba (I think that's what its called) which allows mounting of file
systems
> between windows and linux? This may be my only realistic approach.
> Emacspeak and SpeakUp won't help me if I don't have access to the physical
> hardware. Any other suggestions? What is emacs server?
>
> Thanx in advance for any words of wisdom!
>
>                     Rich
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

RE: Help the Floundering Newbie!

[Holmes, Steve]

I think you may have answered some of your own questions already.  For
remote access, I use Telnet over a network.  I've done this from other linux
machines running speakup and from windows telnet clients.  Both methods
worked well for me.  

My total programming experienced involved using an optacon and later moving
to speech when it became available.  Speech wins out over the optacon hands
down.  Optacon was nice for looking at layout and format.  I could never
afford braille devices so can't comment on their effectiveness.  I have all
punctions turned on in my speech environment so I don't miss the commas and
semicolons and stuff.  When I use Window-Eyes in environments like Visual
Basic, I can use a "mixed case" mode which will properly pronounce complex
variable names such as SingleMouseClick as "single mouse click" - separate
words.  Little enhancements like this make programming in a speech
environment pretty tolerable (to me at least).

One linux compatible database server (postgresql from www.postgres.org) can
be coupled into perl scripts and web based applications.  In fact, this
server can be remote accessed via TCP/IP also.  The default client that
comes with it is a commandline based thing that works well in a text based
environment.  In fact, they have a windows client that can be used to
administer it as well.  I haven't had a chance to check this client out to
see how accessible it is though.

These ideas don't have much to do with speakup specifically but I hope they
are of some help.

-----Original Message-----
From: rjc [mailto:rjc@MIT.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:00 AM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Help the Floundering Newbie!


OK, I'm still very confused about all of this. Perhaps if I describe my
ultimate goals and what I see as my choices for accessing the linux
environment, all you smart folks out there might have a better shot at
helping me out -- so here goes!

I want to be able to configure and administer a typical database
driven website. Most likely, we'll use Apache, MySQL, and some combination
of Perl and PHP. I've done my share of static html coding and have some
knowledge of Perl and PHP.
I have a background in unix, having done some systems admin and basic
system's level C programming in the 80s on BSD. However, at that time I had
access to a refreshable braille display and had a direct serial connection
to the unix box. The display was a big win, since I could easily deal with
unix speak. Try reading a bash script with synthetic speech, however, and
you'll quickly see one of the reasons I'm so frustrated today... How do you
guys program with speech? Well, ok, writing code is one thing, but reading
other people's code is hard even if your sighted and have been doing it all
your life. How does a blind guy do it effectively with speech?

To accomplish my goal, I need to find a comfortable way of working in linux.
The choices that I have are: remote login from PC with Jaws, local login and
run emacspeak with dectalk on the serial port, local login to a kernel with
SpeakUp compiled into it and dectalk on the serial port.
Remote login might be the only way to go in general, since if I'm going to
be charged with administering this server , the only connection I'll have is
via the network, since the server will not
be in the same building as our office. However, sighted people would use
Exceed or something to run an X server on windows or mac and ssh to linux.
However, all I've got access to is a vt100 emulator and the shell. Working
this way is cumbersome. I don't even have a file browser. Hmm, but how about
Samba (I think that's what its called) which allows mounting of file systems
between windows and linux? This may be my only realistic approach.
Emacspeak and SpeakUp won't help me if I don't have access to the physical
hardware. Any other suggestions? What is emacs server?

Thanx in advance for any words of wisdom!

                    Rich



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup