* w3 not working @ Gregory Nowak ` Victor Tsaran 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi all, I've just installed emacs/w3 with no errors. According to the w3 info page, typing the meta key x to get the command prompt, and then typing w3 and hitting enter should bring up the brouser. However, this doesn't happen. Any ideas why? Thanks. Greg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: w3 not working w3 not working Gregory Nowak @ ` Victor Tsaran ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Victor Tsaran @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Greg, what happens then? One thing you might want to do is to insert a command into your .emacs file which has to do with the browse-url function. Please send me private e-mail so that I can look the command up for you. Best, Vic ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Nowak" <romualt@megsinet.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 5:41 PM Subject: w3 not working > Hi all, > > I've just installed emacs/w3 with no errors. > According to the w3 info page, typing the meta key x to get the command prompt, and then typing w3 and hitting enter should bring up the brouser. > However, this doesn't happen. Any ideas why? Thanks. > Greg > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: w3 not working ` Victor Tsaran @ ` Janina Sajka ` Victor Tsaran ` Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On a related note, where does one get the W3 browser? Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: w3 not working ` Janina Sajka @ ` Victor Tsaran ` Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Victor Tsaran @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Janina Sajka writes: > On a related note, where does one get the W3 browser? Thanks. You can either get it from www.rpmfind.net or from www.xemacs.org Best, Victor > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: w3 not working ` Janina Sajka ` Victor Tsaran @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Help the Floundering Newbie! rjc ` w3 not working Victor Tsaran 1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I just went to freshmeat.net, typed in w3, and it was one of the projects that came up. Greg On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 07:13:24PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > On a related note, where does one get the W3 browser? Thanks. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Help the Floundering Newbie! ` Gregory Nowak @ ` rjc ` Kirk Wood ` (2 more replies) ` w3 not working Victor Tsaran 1 sibling, 3 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: rjc @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup OK, I'm still very confused about all of this. Perhaps if I describe my ultimate goals and what I see as my choices for accessing the linux environment, all you smart folks out there might have a better shot at helping me out -- so here goes! I want to be able to configure and administer a typical database driven website. Most likely, we'll use Apache, MySQL, and some combination of Perl and PHP. I've done my share of static html coding and have some knowledge of Perl and PHP. I have a background in unix, having done some systems admin and basic system's level C programming in the 80s on BSD. However, at that time I had access to a refreshable braille display and had a direct serial connection to the unix box. The display was a big win, since I could easily deal with unix speak. Try reading a bash script with synthetic speech, however, and you'll quickly see one of the reasons I'm so frustrated today... How do you guys program with speech? Well, ok, writing code is one thing, but reading other people's code is hard even if your sighted and have been doing it all your life. How does a blind guy do it effectively with speech? To accomplish my goal, I need to find a comfortable way of working in linux. The choices that I have are: remote login from PC with Jaws, local login and run emacspeak with dectalk on the serial port, local login to a kernel with SpeakUp compiled into it and dectalk on the serial port. Remote login might be the only way to go in general, since if I'm going to be charged with administering this server , the only connection I'll have is via the network, since the server will not be in the same building as our office. However, sighted people would use Exceed or something to run an X server on windows or mac and ssh to linux. However, all I've got access to is a vt100 emulator and the shell. Working this way is cumbersome. I don't even have a file browser. Hmm, but how about Samba (I think that's what its called) which allows mounting of file systems between windows and linux? This may be my only realistic approach. Emacspeak and SpeakUp won't help me if I don't have access to the physical hardware. Any other suggestions? What is emacs server? Thanx in advance for any words of wisdom! Rich ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Help the Floundering Newbie! ` Help the Floundering Newbie! rjc @ ` Kirk Wood ` Victor Tsaran ` Geoff Shang 2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Kirk Wood @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup My question is why can some run X over the network yet you are limited to one terminal program? If they can run ssh, you should be able to as well. ======= Kirk Wood Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net Nothing is hard if you know the answer or are used to doing it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Help the Floundering Newbie! ` Help the Floundering Newbie! rjc ` Kirk Wood @ ` Victor Tsaran ` Kirk Reiser ` Geoff Shang 2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Victor Tsaran @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi, Rich! I think you are right about difficulties of writing the code with speech, but reading is even more difficult, agree. I think your best choice would be Emacs with Emacspeak, but as you say, you will not have access to the physical hardware. In this case, it will probably be very hard. Unless you can somehow use Windows to access the shell, I don't see any other alternative to using refreshable Braille display. I myself would be very happy to get one, but here money is the biggest issue for me coming from Eastern Europe. The good thing about Emacs/Emacspeak combination is the availability of speech-enabled modes for various programming languages such as PERL, C/C++, HTML, Java. There is even an sql-mysql mode which is very convenient. Can't you somehow get a machine running Linux with which you could access your organization's network? Best, Victor ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Help the Floundering Newbie! ` Victor Tsaran @ ` Kirk Reiser ` Charles Hallenbeck ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Kirk Reiser @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I have to insert here that I don't understand what the trouble is with using speech. I have been developing and modifying code for many many years and have no problem using synthetic speech. I don't even tend to use all punctuation when looking through code. Code is code and the structure and rules of each language dictate what one should expect while looking through the program. I have had the pleasure of using braille displays and braille printers and I only use speech these days. I believe those who think it will be difficult either make it difficult by their own concepts or have never done much coding. I and many other coders use speech totally for our coding and have no difficulties what-so-ever. Kirk -- Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario phone: (519) 661-3061 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Help the Floundering Newbie! ` Kirk Reiser @ ` Charles Hallenbeck ` speech for coding Raul A. Gallegos ` Help the Floundering Newbie! Kirk Wood ` Victor Tsaran 2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I agree completely. I have been using speech access since 1978 in one form or another and find it a very comfortable and convenient medium. I have a hard time grasping what the problem might be. My only concession to speech as a medium is that I tend to choose symbolic names in such a way that they can be pronounced!!! Chuck On 23 May 2001, Kirk Reiser wrote: > I have to insert here that I don't understand what the trouble is with > using speech. I have been developing and modifying code for many many > years and have no problem using synthetic speech. I don't even tend > to use all punctuation when looking through code. Code is code and > the structure and rules of each language dictate what one should > expect while looking through the program. I have had the pleasure of > using braille displays and braille printers and I only use speech > these days. I believe those who think it will be difficult either > make it difficult by their own concepts or have never done much > coding. I and many other coders use speech totally for our coding and > have no difficulties what-so-ever. > > Kirk > > Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh The Moon is New ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* speech for coding ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` Raul A. Gallegos ` Rich Caloggero ` Geoff Shang 0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Raul A. Gallegos @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I had to change the subject to better fit the topic at hand. Anyway, I agree with everyone in that coding with speech is easy and for the most part you don't need to turn on all punctuation. This is especially true if you are comfortable in your coding and know what punction to use for the different programs. Where I do find punction spoken very helpful is in the cases where I might have to modify someone else's existing code. Because we all think differently we might put semi-colons or commas a little differently in programs. Also there are times where I have to do dns work and this requires named.conf modifications. Sometimes I don't know what the skills of the person who started the particular named.conf file are and so different sections of the file might be placd differently so having that punction spoken helps. Once I've changed the file to my personal preference and style and I'm not debugging it for typo errors I turn off the extra punction speaking. Just my 2 pannies worth. Raul A. Gallegos Email: raul@asmodean.net icq#: 5283055 msn: ragallegos@hotmail.com aim: raulagallegos ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: speech for coding ` speech for coding Raul A. Gallegos @ ` Rich Caloggero ` Geoff Shang 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Rich Caloggero @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi. I want to first thank everyone who has commented on this. I think much comes down to personal preference and opinion. However, I think that reading other people's code is difficult with speech. There coding style may be very different; the code may be full of unpronouncable names; the personal may have a totally different way of conceiving the problem and the resulting code will of course reflect this. Of course, all people reading other people's code, blind or not, must face similar issues, however I still think that reading code with cryptic variable names and lots of crazy syntax (perl anyone) is very hard with speech. If I write my own code, I can choose names that are pronouncible, and format the code so it matches what I expect, etc. Again, thanx for all the commentary. Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul@asmodean.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: speech for coding > I had to change the subject to better fit the topic at hand. Anyway, I > agree with everyone in that coding with speech is easy and for the most > part you don't need to turn on all punctuation. This is especially true > if you are comfortable in your coding and know what punction to use for > the different programs. > > Where I do find punction spoken very helpful is in the cases where I might > have to modify someone else's existing code. Because we all think > differently we might put semi-colons or commas a little differently in > programs. Also there are times where I have to do dns work and this > requires named.conf modifications. Sometimes I don't know what the skills > of the person who started the particular named.conf file are and so > different sections of the file might be placd differently so having that > punction spoken helps. > > Once I've changed the file to my personal preference and style and I'm not > debugging it for typo errors I turn off the extra punction speaking. > > Just my 2 pannies worth. > > Raul A. Gallegos > Email: raul@asmodean.net icq#: 5283055 > msn: ragallegos@hotmail.com aim: raulagallegos > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: speech for coding ` speech for coding Raul A. Gallegos ` Rich Caloggero @ ` Geoff Shang 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Geoff Shang @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi: Of course, the neat thing about speakup is being able to selectively enable whichever punctuation marks you want to hear. Geoff. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Help the Floundering Newbie! ` Kirk Reiser ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` Kirk Wood ` Victor Tsaran 2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Kirk Wood @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I think the first order of business is to put things back into perspective. If you want to work with the console for the development, then procure one machine for your development activities. This is a good idea anyway. All of the software mentioned can be installed on your development machine with no monetary investment beyond the hardware it is running on. Then you can code with emacspeak. You can code in pico with speakup. Or you can ask Kirk and some others what they use for development. The thing is that developing code for a Linux box can easily be done with whatever you prefer to use. You could write code for your linux machine in notepad on a windows machine. If a person comes with a strong unix background then moving to development on a linux machine should be an easy enough thing to do. Most of those same tools used before can be used here. ======= Kirk Wood Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net Nothing is hard if you know the answer or are used to doing it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Help the Floundering Newbie! ` Kirk Reiser ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Help the Floundering Newbie! Kirk Wood @ ` Victor Tsaran 2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Victor Tsaran @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I think the biggest problem is not with the speech itself but with the burden on one's ears that it brings. When you write an e-mail, you don't need to concentrate very much. It is totally opposite when writing a code. A concentration for more than 4 hours kills me because I have to pay attention to all kinds of parenthesis,brackets, quotes, semicolons etc. This is why voice indication, like that with Emacspeak, is very convenient. Best, Victor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:11 PM Subject: Re: Help the Floundering Newbie! > I have to insert here that I don't understand what the trouble is with > using speech. I have been developing and modifying code for many many > years and have no problem using synthetic speech. I don't even tend > to use all punctuation when looking through code. Code is code and > the structure and rules of each language dictate what one should > expect while looking through the program. I have had the pleasure of > using braille displays and braille printers and I only use speech > these days. I believe those who think it will be difficult either > make it difficult by their own concepts or have never done much > coding. I and many other coders use speech totally for our coding and > have no difficulties what-so-ever. > > Kirk > > -- > > Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility > e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario > phone: (519) 661-3061 > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Help the Floundering Newbie! ` Help the Floundering Newbie! rjc ` Kirk Wood ` Victor Tsaran @ ` Geoff Shang 2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Geoff Shang @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Tue, 22 May 2001, rjc wrote: > To accomplish my goal, I need to find a comfortable way of working in linux. > The choices that I have are: remote login from PC with Jaws, local login and > run emacspeak with dectalk on the serial port, local login to a kernel with > SpeakUp compiled into it and dectalk on the serial port. Why not remote login from a PC running speakup? I must say that this would be my approach. But then again, I'm used to using speech and the shell. If you have a braille display, you might want to check out brltty and see if your display is supported. I don't personally see much need for such things as file browsers and the like, since I find "ls" tells me more than I want to know already. But I guess you could always fire up midnight commander or something like that if you really want to. Geoff. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: w3 not working ` Gregory Nowak ` Help the Floundering Newbie! rjc @ ` Victor Tsaran 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Victor Tsaran @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi, Greg! I am sorry for not responding to you earlier about the W3 command. Here it is: Put in your .emacs file the following line: (browse-url-browser-function (quote browse-url-w3)) Best, Victor Gregory Nowak writes: > I just went to freshmeat.net, typed in w3, and it was one of the projects that came up. > Greg > > > On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 07:13:24PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > > On a related note, where does one get the W3 browser? Thanks. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
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