BrailleNote

BrailleNote

[Christopher Moore]

Hello,
This is another Braille notetaker device with speech.  I wonder what kind
of operating system it has.  It would be neat if you could install linux
on it.


73, Chris w1gm@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: BrailleNote

[Buddy Brannan]

It has WinCE. And braille display as well as speech. (BTW, the speech is
Keynote software based speech at that.)

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: davros@ycardz.com
Voice mail: 877-791-5298
All opinions are all mine!

RE: BrailleNote

[Dave Hunt]

Chris,

No Linux on that Humanware device.  They went with Windows CE.  Furthermore,
It looks like a very restricted set of application features, analogous to
the Keysoft, shipped with the DOS Keynote Companion.  IMHO, for the money
you'll spend on a device like that, you're better off buying a 'regular'
laptop and equipping it as you see fit.


--  Dave  --

RE: BrailleNote

[cpt.kirk]

> considered the cost, but I'm sure it's in the $5k + range.  So, why would
> someone pay that kind of money for half a computer.  

I think the reason people are willing to pay this cost is that there isn't
much choice for the functionality. This is the best priced hardware of its
type that I have seen. It should be much more functional then anything
Blazie has come out with. And it is in the $3k to $5k range depending on
how many Braille cells are in the unit. The cost of the computer itself is
negligible when compared to the cost of the refreshable disply cells.

The real mystery is why people still have to purchase the BNS for its
cost. I can't imagine how a 20 year old peice of hardware can be so
expensive. Even knowing they have updated it, they charge new product
prices.

-- 
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
------------------

Why can't you be a non-conformist, like everybody else?

RE: BrailleNote

[Christopher Moore]

Dave,
Thanks for the tip on BrailleNote.  Just what we don't need: another
half-computer with a proprietary operating system.  I haven't even
considered the cost, but I'm sure it's in the $5k + range.  So, why would
someone pay that kind of money for half a computer.  
Chris

73, Chris w1gm@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

RE: BrailleNote

[cpt.kirk]

As for the PDA that was being talked about, I am working on the software
to do braille translation on the fly. Such a project will reveal how
truely complicated braille is if that hadn't been clear before. Once that
is to a point it is workable I will be looking at the hardware for the
project again. Right now many new chips are comming out and the landscape
in two months will be different then currently.

Of course the software landscape is changing as well. Though I don't know
if it will work, Minux is now available for use without license
problems. That would reduce the minimum hardware, but introduces a need
for a screen reader. I have no idea about how portible Speakup would be to
that platform. So it is still arround. Do you want to lend some
programming help?

-- 
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
------------------

Why can't you be a non-conformist, like everybody else?

Re: BrailleNote

[Scott Howell]

aaaah, the power of limited marketing.
btw, what has happend with the pda project talked about on here a while
back.
I've lost track whilst on my mission of getting my box to do what I want.
Bad box, sit box, good Linux.

----- Original Message -----
From: <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 6:55 AM
Subject: RE: BrailleNote


> > considered the cost, but I'm sure it's in the $5k + range.  So, why
would
> > someone pay that kind of money for half a computer.
>
> I think the reason people are willing to pay this cost is that there isn't
> much choice for the functionality. This is the best priced hardware of its
> type that I have seen. It should be much more functional then anything
> Blazie has come out with. And it is in the $3k to $5k range depending on
> how many Braille cells are in the unit. The cost of the computer itself is
> negligible when compared to the cost of the refreshable disply cells.
>
> The real mystery is why people still have to purchase the BNS for its
> cost. I can't imagine how a 20 year old peice of hardware can be so
> expensive. Even knowing they have updated it, they charge new product
> prices.
>
> --
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> ------------------
>
> Why can't you be a non-conformist, like everybody else?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

RE: BrailleNote

[Buddy Brannan]

Heh. ... You'd guess near correct. As I understand, when it ships, it'll be
something like $3,800 for the 18-cell model and $5,000 for the 32-cell one.
In answer to your question.....hrmmpf. I dunno.

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: davros@ycardz.com
Voice mail: 877-791-5298
All opinions are all mine!

Re: BrailleNote

[Scott Howell]

ay Kirk, I'd love to lend all the help I could, but you wouldn't want me
doing any programming.
I am not a programmer, but intend to learn. I wish I did know some language
and so that's one thing I'll be working on.
Of course as usual I got more on my plate than I can handle so sure
programming will take me some time.

If I can be of any other help, please let me know.

Goodluck and I'll be happy to see what you come up with.

RE: BrailleNote

[Dave Hunt]

Chris,

I'm not sure that Humanware plans to write their own version of Windows
CE, just a talking application setup like the Keysoft program.  As  with
any of these devises, my gripe is the price.  Who'd pay $3K to $5K for a
Palm Pilot?  I know folks who've spent more on their BNS (original price +
upgrades) than my employer pays for the best of the laptops.

--  Dave  --

RE: BrailleNote

[Christopher Moore]

I'm on the fence on this idea of developing a specialized PDA.  The
problem basically comes down to lack of resources.  For example, Blazie
had a good  idea back in the mid 80's.  He developed a product but never
had the resources to change the architecture to keep pace with advances in
technology.  We'd be faced with the same problem.  
Perhaps the best answer is to use the commercially available products.  If
you need a portable computer: get a laptop and attach an external speech
or braille device.  If you want to keep track of phone numbers: get a $99
voice diary.  

73, Chris w1gm@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

RE: BrailleNote

[cpt.kirk]

I will tell you why I am working toward the development of a PDA for blind
people. The first reason is that there is not a comparable product on the
market. Furhter many sighted people have found that a device that is not
as powerful as a laptop and much more powerful then a simple notepad is
quite handy. There is no reason to believe that blind people wouldn't find
a similar device handy as well.

As for the lack of resources, well obvviously if I had more it would be an
easier task. But if I wait for resources beforestarting then nothing will
ever happen. In fact, it would seem to me that if everyone operated on the
premise that since there is a loack of resources we shouldn't try to keep
up, eventually there will be no such thing as blind access to computers. I
would imagine that Speakup started as a desire of Kirk to get console
speech in Linux and he had almost no resources. I know that many Linux
programs start that way.

I honestly hope that someone comes out with a product that makes my ideas
of a product impracticle. If someone does come out with an affordable
product then I will truely be happy. Otherwise I will endeavor to make one
that people can actually offord.

-- 
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
------------------

I really have little to do with them, for I mingle with my peers or no
one, and since I have no peers, I mingle with no one.
   Ignatius Reilly (Confederacy of Dunces)

RE: BrailleNote

[cpt.kirk]

Actually, we are thinking that the device will have more then 7
buttons. We are looking at adding two additional buttons to the standard
six, allowing one to make a capital letter with a single keystroke, and
the other for control purposes. I may also include some arrow keys for
added functionality. The device may be thinker then a standard palm. But
perhaps a model intended for small size can also be done making it as
close as possible to a plam. As for slower input, the top input rate of a
palm is considered 15 words per minute. A lot slower then typing.

We want low cast, low battery requirement, and the most power we can pack.

-- 
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
------------------

I really have little to do with them, for I mingle with my peers or no
one, and since I have no peers, I mingle with no one.
   Ignatius Reilly (Confederacy of Dunces)

RE: BrailleNote

[RK]

Kirk,
I had never really thought of this before, but it would be nice if there was
a device that was as small as the palm, but had a slot where you could plug
headphones in for sound.  Maybe someone has already thought of this before,
but I will still throw it out.  The other statement I will make is that the
devices that are accessible to the blind are usually larger than normal
electronic devices for sighted people.  For once, I would like to get hold
of a device that is just as functional as a normal pda, but had features
that made it easy for me to operate it.  For example, maybe making a
keyboard on the device that was just 7 small buttons that would allow the
blind person to type into the device as if they were typing into the bns
machine.  Maybe it would be slower, but you can't tell me that writing on
the pda is just as fast as typing.  Anyway, that is my two cents.

Best regards,
RK

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of cpt.kirk@1tree.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 8:13 AM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: RE: BrailleNote


I will tell you why I am working toward the development of a PDA for blind
people. The first reason is that there is not a comparable product on the
market. Furhter many sighted people have found that a device that is not
as powerful as a laptop and much more powerful then a simple notepad is
quite handy. There is no reason to believe that blind people wouldn't find
a similar device handy as well.

As for the lack of resources, well obvviously if I had more it would be an
easier task. But if I wait for resources beforestarting then nothing will
ever happen. In fact, it would seem to me that if everyone operated on the
premise that since there is a loack of resources we shouldn't try to keep
up, eventually there will be no such thing as blind access to computers. I
would imagine that Speakup started as a desire of Kirk to get console
speech in Linux and he had almost no resources. I know that many Linux
programs start that way.

I honestly hope that someone comes out with a product that makes my ideas
of a product impracticle. If someone does come out with an affordable
product then I will truely be happy. Otherwise I will endeavor to make one
that people can actually offord.

--
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
------------------

I really have little to do with them, for I mingle with my peers or no
one, and since I have no peers, I mingle with no one.
   Ignatius Reilly (Confederacy of Dunces)


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: BrailleNote

[craig martin]

You could put some of the keys on the front of the unit, thus allowing the
thumbs to do several tasks besides spaces, controls, and alts.  This would
give you a lot of power in a small box.  Many braille displays use this
technology so the reader can read while moving from block to block.

RE: BrailleNote

[Christopher Moore]

Kirk,
The braille-style keyboard has its advantages but limits the speed with
which you can input information.  When using a BNS, I need to concentrate
on pressing the key combinations accurately or I end up with missing dots.
Also, while on the subject of keys, you might want to consider using a
menu tree to drive the device.  Again, a major drawback of the bns is its
reliance on memorizing a gazillion chording commands.  
Chris

73, Chris w1gm@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org