* BrailleNote @ Christopher Moore ` BrailleNote Buddy Brannan ` BrailleNote Dave Hunt 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Christopher Moore @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup mailing list Hello, This is another Braille notetaker device with speech. I wonder what kind of operating system it has. It would be neat if you could install linux on it. 73, Chris w1gm@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: BrailleNote BrailleNote Christopher Moore @ ` Buddy Brannan ` BrailleNote Dave Hunt 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Buddy Brannan @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup It has WinCE. And braille display as well as speech. (BTW, the speech is Keynote software based speech at that.) -- Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV Email: davros@ycardz.com Voice mail: 877-791-5298 All opinions are all mine! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote BrailleNote Christopher Moore ` BrailleNote Buddy Brannan @ ` Dave Hunt ` BrailleNote Christopher Moore 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Dave Hunt @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Chris, No Linux on that Humanware device. They went with Windows CE. Furthermore, It looks like a very restricted set of application features, analogous to the Keysoft, shipped with the DOS Keynote Companion. IMHO, for the money you'll spend on a device like that, you're better off buying a 'regular' laptop and equipping it as you see fit. -- Dave -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote Dave Hunt @ ` Christopher Moore ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Christopher Moore @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Dave, Thanks for the tip on BrailleNote. Just what we don't need: another half-computer with a proprietary operating system. I haven't even considered the cost, but I'm sure it's in the $5k + range. So, why would someone pay that kind of money for half a computer. Chris 73, Chris w1gm@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote Christopher Moore @ ` cpt.kirk ` BrailleNote Scott Howell ` BrailleNote Buddy Brannan ` BrailleNote Dave Hunt 2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: cpt.kirk @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup > considered the cost, but I'm sure it's in the $5k + range. So, why would > someone pay that kind of money for half a computer. I think the reason people are willing to pay this cost is that there isn't much choice for the functionality. This is the best priced hardware of its type that I have seen. It should be much more functional then anything Blazie has come out with. And it is in the $3k to $5k range depending on how many Braille cells are in the unit. The cost of the computer itself is negligible when compared to the cost of the refreshable disply cells. The real mystery is why people still have to purchase the BNS for its cost. I can't imagine how a 20 year old peice of hardware can be so expensive. Even knowing they have updated it, they charge new product prices. -- Kirk Wood Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net ------------------ Why can't you be a non-conformist, like everybody else? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk @ ` Scott Howell 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Scott Howell @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup aaaah, the power of limited marketing. btw, what has happend with the pda project talked about on here a while back. I've lost track whilst on my mission of getting my box to do what I want. Bad box, sit box, good Linux. ----- Original Message ----- From: <cpt.kirk@1tree.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 6:55 AM Subject: RE: BrailleNote > > considered the cost, but I'm sure it's in the $5k + range. So, why would > > someone pay that kind of money for half a computer. > > I think the reason people are willing to pay this cost is that there isn't > much choice for the functionality. This is the best priced hardware of its > type that I have seen. It should be much more functional then anything > Blazie has come out with. And it is in the $3k to $5k range depending on > how many Braille cells are in the unit. The cost of the computer itself is > negligible when compared to the cost of the refreshable disply cells. > > The real mystery is why people still have to purchase the BNS for its > cost. I can't imagine how a 20 year old peice of hardware can be so > expensive. Even knowing they have updated it, they charge new product > prices. > > -- > Kirk Wood > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net > ------------------ > > Why can't you be a non-conformist, like everybody else? > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote Christopher Moore ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk @ ` Buddy Brannan ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk ` BrailleNote Dave Hunt 2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Buddy Brannan @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Heh. ... You'd guess near correct. As I understand, when it ships, it'll be something like $3,800 for the 18-cell model and $5,000 for the 32-cell one. In answer to your question.....hrmmpf. I dunno. -- Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV Email: davros@ycardz.com Voice mail: 877-791-5298 All opinions are all mine! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote Buddy Brannan @ ` cpt.kirk ` BrailleNote Scott Howell ` BrailleNote Christopher Moore 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: cpt.kirk @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup As for the PDA that was being talked about, I am working on the software to do braille translation on the fly. Such a project will reveal how truely complicated braille is if that hadn't been clear before. Once that is to a point it is workable I will be looking at the hardware for the project again. Right now many new chips are comming out and the landscape in two months will be different then currently. Of course the software landscape is changing as well. Though I don't know if it will work, Minux is now available for use without license problems. That would reduce the minimum hardware, but introduces a need for a screen reader. I have no idea about how portible Speakup would be to that platform. So it is still arround. Do you want to lend some programming help? -- Kirk Wood Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net ------------------ Why can't you be a non-conformist, like everybody else? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk @ ` Scott Howell ` BrailleNote Christopher Moore 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Scott Howell @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup ay Kirk, I'd love to lend all the help I could, but you wouldn't want me doing any programming. I am not a programmer, but intend to learn. I wish I did know some language and so that's one thing I'll be working on. Of course as usual I got more on my plate than I can handle so sure programming will take me some time. If I can be of any other help, please let me know. Goodluck and I'll be happy to see what you come up with. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk ` BrailleNote Scott Howell @ ` Christopher Moore ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Christopher Moore @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I'm on the fence on this idea of developing a specialized PDA. The problem basically comes down to lack of resources. For example, Blazie had a good idea back in the mid 80's. He developed a product but never had the resources to change the architecture to keep pace with advances in technology. We'd be faced with the same problem. Perhaps the best answer is to use the commercially available products. If you need a portable computer: get a laptop and attach an external speech or braille device. If you want to keep track of phone numbers: get a $99 voice diary. 73, Chris w1gm@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote Christopher Moore @ ` cpt.kirk ` BrailleNote RK 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: cpt.kirk @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I will tell you why I am working toward the development of a PDA for blind people. The first reason is that there is not a comparable product on the market. Furhter many sighted people have found that a device that is not as powerful as a laptop and much more powerful then a simple notepad is quite handy. There is no reason to believe that blind people wouldn't find a similar device handy as well. As for the lack of resources, well obvviously if I had more it would be an easier task. But if I wait for resources beforestarting then nothing will ever happen. In fact, it would seem to me that if everyone operated on the premise that since there is a loack of resources we shouldn't try to keep up, eventually there will be no such thing as blind access to computers. I would imagine that Speakup started as a desire of Kirk to get console speech in Linux and he had almost no resources. I know that many Linux programs start that way. I honestly hope that someone comes out with a product that makes my ideas of a product impracticle. If someone does come out with an affordable product then I will truely be happy. Otherwise I will endeavor to make one that people can actually offord. -- Kirk Wood Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net ------------------ I really have little to do with them, for I mingle with my peers or no one, and since I have no peers, I mingle with no one. Ignatius Reilly (Confederacy of Dunces) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk @ ` RK ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: RK @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Kirk, I had never really thought of this before, but it would be nice if there was a device that was as small as the palm, but had a slot where you could plug headphones in for sound. Maybe someone has already thought of this before, but I will still throw it out. The other statement I will make is that the devices that are accessible to the blind are usually larger than normal electronic devices for sighted people. For once, I would like to get hold of a device that is just as functional as a normal pda, but had features that made it easy for me to operate it. For example, maybe making a keyboard on the device that was just 7 small buttons that would allow the blind person to type into the device as if they were typing into the bns machine. Maybe it would be slower, but you can't tell me that writing on the pda is just as fast as typing. Anyway, that is my two cents. Best regards, RK -----Original Message----- From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of cpt.kirk@1tree.net Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 8:13 AM To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca Subject: RE: BrailleNote I will tell you why I am working toward the development of a PDA for blind people. The first reason is that there is not a comparable product on the market. Furhter many sighted people have found that a device that is not as powerful as a laptop and much more powerful then a simple notepad is quite handy. There is no reason to believe that blind people wouldn't find a similar device handy as well. As for the lack of resources, well obvviously if I had more it would be an easier task. But if I wait for resources beforestarting then nothing will ever happen. In fact, it would seem to me that if everyone operated on the premise that since there is a loack of resources we shouldn't try to keep up, eventually there will be no such thing as blind access to computers. I would imagine that Speakup started as a desire of Kirk to get console speech in Linux and he had almost no resources. I know that many Linux programs start that way. I honestly hope that someone comes out with a product that makes my ideas of a product impracticle. If someone does come out with an affordable product then I will truely be happy. Otherwise I will endeavor to make one that people can actually offord. -- Kirk Wood Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net ------------------ I really have little to do with them, for I mingle with my peers or no one, and since I have no peers, I mingle with no one. Ignatius Reilly (Confederacy of Dunces) _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote RK @ ` cpt.kirk ` BrailleNote craig martin ` BrailleNote Christopher Moore 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: cpt.kirk @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Actually, we are thinking that the device will have more then 7 buttons. We are looking at adding two additional buttons to the standard six, allowing one to make a capital letter with a single keystroke, and the other for control purposes. I may also include some arrow keys for added functionality. The device may be thinker then a standard palm. But perhaps a model intended for small size can also be done making it as close as possible to a plam. As for slower input, the top input rate of a palm is considered 15 words per minute. A lot slower then typing. We want low cast, low battery requirement, and the most power we can pack. -- Kirk Wood Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net ------------------ I really have little to do with them, for I mingle with my peers or no one, and since I have no peers, I mingle with no one. Ignatius Reilly (Confederacy of Dunces) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk @ ` craig martin ` BrailleNote Christopher Moore 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: craig martin @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: cpt.kirk; +Cc: speakup You could put some of the keys on the front of the unit, thus allowing the thumbs to do several tasks besides spaces, controls, and alts. This would give you a lot of power in a small box. Many braille displays use this technology so the reader can read while moving from block to block. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk ` BrailleNote craig martin @ ` Christopher Moore 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Christopher Moore @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Kirk, The braille-style keyboard has its advantages but limits the speed with which you can input information. When using a BNS, I need to concentrate on pressing the key combinations accurately or I end up with missing dots. Also, while on the subject of keys, you might want to consider using a menu tree to drive the device. Again, a major drawback of the bns is its reliance on memorizing a gazillion chording commands. Chris 73, Chris w1gm@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* RE: BrailleNote ` BrailleNote Christopher Moore ` BrailleNote cpt.kirk ` BrailleNote Buddy Brannan @ ` Dave Hunt 2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Dave Hunt @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Chris, I'm not sure that Humanware plans to write their own version of Windows CE, just a talking application setup like the Keysoft program. As with any of these devises, my gripe is the price. Who'd pay $3K to $5K for a Palm Pilot? I know folks who've spent more on their BNS (original price + upgrades) than my employer pays for the best of the laptops. -- Dave -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
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