Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Janina Sajka]

I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities, which will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), this
coming March. You are invited to attend.

	Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup Screen Reader
Presenter name: Janina Sajka
Date: Friday, 21 March 2003
Start Time: 2:00 pm
End Time: 4:40 pm
Room: Chicago/Dallas, at the Marriott Hotel

Please note that we will have Internet access at this presentation, so that our completed installation will be accessible over SSH. I would like to
demonstrate this to those who attend in person. So, I'm open to ideas and suggestions from those on this list who will NOT be attending CSUN this coming
March. What compelling capacity of Linux might be worthy of a brief remote demonstration? Please let me know your thoughts.




-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Alex Snow]

A good thing to demonstrate the remote capibilities of linux would be to
show how you can check a pop3 mailbox from a remote computer without having
to setup that account on the machine.
Explorer has caused a general protection fault in module kernel32.dll. I'm
sick of Winblows!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:12 AM
Subject: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN


> I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a
Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
> upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities, which
will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX),
this
> coming March. You are invited to attend.
>
> Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup Screen
Reader
> Presenter name: Janina Sajka
> Date: Friday, 21 March 2003
> Start Time: 2:00 pm
> End Time: 4:40 pm
> Room: Chicago/Dallas, at the Marriott Hotel
>
> Please note that we will have Internet access at this presentation, so
that our completed installation will be accessible over SSH. I would like to
> demonstrate this to those who attend in person. So, I'm open to ideas and
suggestions from those on this list who will NOT be attending CSUN this
coming
> March. What compelling capacity of Linux might be worthy of a brief remote
demonstration? Please let me know your thoughts.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Will Smith]

Hello,

Thanks for this great news.  I wonder if you will prepare and post  notes
for those of us who are interested but won't be able to get to this great
event?

Will
wilsmith@iglou.com
 On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
> upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities, which will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), this
> coming March. You are invited to attend.
>
> 	Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup Screen Reader
> Presenter name: Janina Sajka
> Date: Friday, 21 March 2003
etc.

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[jwantz]

Hi Janina,
Is your audience going to be experienced linux users?  If not, why not 
demonstrate remotely shutting down a system?  I have always considered 
this very useful when my system was threatened by a thunderstorm.
I'm assuming there will be a majority of people familiar with 
accessibility products but not linux.  Is there any possibility that can 
broadcast the conference via a live stream?

      Jim Wantz WB0TFK
On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Janina 
Sajka wrote:

> I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
> upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities, which will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), this
> coming March. You are invited to attend.
> 
> 	Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup Screen Reader
> Presenter name: Janina Sajka
> Date: Friday, 21 March 2003
> Start Time: 2:00 pm
> End Time: 4:40 pm
> Room: Chicago/Dallas, at the Marriott Hotel
> 
> Please note that we will have Internet access at this presentation, so that our completed installation will be accessible over SSH. I would like to
> demonstrate this to those who attend in person. So, I'm open to ideas and suggestions from those on this list who will NOT be attending CSUN this coming
> March. What compelling capacity of Linux might be worthy of a brief remote demonstration? Please let me know your thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Will:

Yes, the notes, any slides, etc., etc., will definitely be posted and available.  I indend the presentation will be based on the installation HOWTO at:

http://www.linux-speakup.org/ftp/disks/redhat/HOWTO_INSTALL.html

Of course, I'll need to update this document first..

PS: Any slides will, of course, not be in PowerPoint because I intend any slides must be fully accessible. Therefore, I expect to use either GNOME, if
available by then, or HTML using the W3C's slide tool.

Will Smith writes:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Thanks for this great news.  I wonder if you will prepare and post  notes
> for those of us who are interested but won't be able to get to this great
> event?
> 
> Will
> wilsmith@iglou.com
>  On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
> > upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities, which will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), this
> > coming March. You are invited to attend.
> >
> > 	Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup Screen Reader
> > Presenter name: Janina Sajka
> > Date: Friday, 21 March 2003
> etc.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Janina Sajka]

Hey, Jim:

Yes, I think it would be possible to stream. It may be more hocus-pocus then there is time for, but it certainly is worth thinking about. If at all
possible, I would want to do it. The room does have Internet, meaning ethernet, I believe. So, I could stream over my laptop whilst we blow away Windows
and install Linux on the system there, or something like that.

I don't know about what experience leve I will have. I imagine your estimation is correct, mostly AT and Windows familiarity.

jwantz@babel.hpcc.noaa.gov writes:
> From: jwantz@babel.hpcc.noaa.gov
> 
> Hi Janina,
> Is your audience going to be experienced linux users?  If not, why not 
> demonstrate remotely shutting down a system?  I have always considered 
> this very useful when my system was threatened by a thunderstorm.
> I'm assuming there will be a majority of people familiar with 
> accessibility products but not linux.  Is there any possibility that can 
> broadcast the conference via a live stream?
> 
>       Jim Wantz WB0TFK
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Janina 
> Sajka wrote:
> 
> > I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
> > upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities, which will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), this
> > coming March. You are invited to attend.
> > 
> > 	Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup Screen Reader
> > Presenter name: Janina Sajka
> > Date: Friday, 21 March 2003
> > Start Time: 2:00 pm
> > End Time: 4:40 pm
> > Room: Chicago/Dallas, at the Marriott Hotel
> > 
> > Please note that we will have Internet access at this presentation, so that our completed installation will be accessible over SSH. I would like to
> > demonstrate this to those who attend in person. So, I'm open to ideas and suggestions from those on this list who will NOT be attending CSUN this coming
> > March. What compelling capacity of Linux might be worthy of a brief remote demonstration? Please let me know your thoughts.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Toby Fisher]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
> upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities, which will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), this
> coming March. You are invited to attend.
>
> 	Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup Screen Reader
> Presenter name: Janina Sajka
> Date: Friday, 21 March 2003

<snip>

Do!  I don't suppopse you could bring it forward a month? *smile*  I'm
going to be in Vancoover from the 15-22 Feb. and it would be so much
easier to just hop on a plane from there.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@tjfisher.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Toby Fisher]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> A good thing to demonstrate the remote capibilities of linux would be to
> show how you can check a pop3 mailbox from a remote computer without having
> to setup that account on the machine.

Oh what, you mean something like:
telnet some.mail.server 110
user username
pass password
list
top 1 20 (to read the headers)
top 1 40
top 1 60
top 1 80
etc etc etc

Hehehe, I've checked my email like this many a time. *grin*

Only thing to remember, don't leave more than 60 secs between commands or
you get booted.  Oh yes, and it doesn't work if the server wants ssl
authentication, sorry, but I don't talk realtime ssl. *grin*

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@tjfisher.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Thomas Stivers]

On 11/16/02  1:15 AM +0000, Toby Fisher wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
> 
> > A good thing to demonstrate the remote capibilities of linux would be to
> > show how you can check a pop3 mailbox from a remote computer without having
> > to setup that account on the machine.
> 
> Oh what, you mean something like:
> telnet some.mail.server 110
> user username
> pass password
> list
> top 1 20 (to read the headers)
> top 1 40
> top 1 60
> top 1 80
> etc etc etc
> 

You could also use mutt. Run mutt, press c, and then type
pop://<your_pop_username>:<your_pop_password>@<your_pop_server>. At least
that works for me, and it's better than speaking pop3.
> Hehehe, I've checked my email like this many a time. *grin*
> 
> Only thing to remember, don't leave more than 60 secs between commands or
> you get booted.  Oh yes, and it doesn't work if the server wants ssl
> authentication, sorry, but I don't talk realtime ssl. *grin*
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> -- 
> Toby Fisher	Email: toby@tjfisher.co.uk
> Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
> ICQ: #61744808
>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Thomas Stivers
e-mail: stivers_t@ev1.net
PGP Public Key ID: 45CBBABD
http://stivers-home.dyndns.org

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[ccrawford]

	I wonder if ACB Radio could stream it?  Would it be worth it?

-- Charlie.
On 
Fri, 15 Nov 2002 jwantz@babel.hpcc.noaa.gov wrote:

> Hi Janina,
> Is your audience going to be experienced linux users?  If not, why not 
> demonstrate remotely shutting down a system?  I have always considered 
> this very useful when my system was threatened by a thunderstorm.
> I'm assuming there will be a majority of people familiar with 
> accessibility products but not linux.  Is there any possibility that can 
> broadcast the conference via a live stream?
> 
>       Jim Wantz WB0TFK
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Janina 
> Sajka wrote:
> 
> > I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
> > upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities, which will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), this
> > coming March. You are invited to attend.
> > 
> > 	Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup Screen Reader
> > Presenter name: Janina Sajka
> > Date: Friday, 21 March 2003
> > Start Time: 2:00 pm
> > End Time: 4:40 pm
> > Room: Chicago/Dallas, at the Marriott Hotel
> > 
> > Please note that we will have Internet access at this presentation, so that our completed installation will be accessible over SSH. I would like to
> > demonstrate this to those who attend in person. So, I'm open to ideas and suggestions from those on this list who will NOT be attending CSUN this coming
> > March. What compelling capacity of Linux might be worthy of a brief remote demonstration? Please let me know your thoughts.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Yes, Charlie, it would be worth it!  Can you talk to Jonathan about
it?  If Matt Campbell is going to be at CSUN, courtesy of Freedom Box,
maybe he could be snagged as well.  It would be also worth
interviewing the Gnompernicus folks at that time.  Me thinks three
months will make a difference in their progress as well.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

RE: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[michael malver]

What wouod impress me is if someone who knew little about linux and the
screen reader could do the demo.  The reason Im still a windblows user is
because I was only able to instal linux with the patient help of friends. It
took two hours to make it even remotely useable.  That to me is not the sign
of a user-friendly system.
I would be impressed if you could get a computer-savey person who didn't
know much about linux to operate the screen reader, and do the install.


-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:43 PM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN


Hey, Jim:

Yes, I think it would be possible to stream. It may be more hocus-pocus then
there is time for, but it certainly is worth thinking about. If at all
possible, I would want to do it. The room does have Internet, meaning
ethernet, I believe. So, I could stream over my laptop whilst we blow away
Windows
and install Linux on the system there, or something like that.

I don't know about what experience leve I will have. I imagine your
estimation is correct, mostly AT and Windows familiarity.

jwantz@babel.hpcc.noaa.gov writes:
> From: jwantz@babel.hpcc.noaa.gov
>
> Hi Janina,
> Is your audience going to be experienced linux users?  If not, why not
> demonstrate remotely shutting down a system?  I have always considered
> this very useful when my system was threatened by a thunderstorm.
> I'm assuming there will be a majority of people familiar with
> accessibility products but not linux.  Is there any possibility that can
> broadcast the conference via a live stream?
>
>       Jim Wantz WB0TFK
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Janina
> Sajka wrote:
>
> > I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a
Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
> > upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities,
which will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport,
(LAX), this
> > coming March. You are invited to attend.
> >
> > 	Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup
Screen Reader
> > Presenter name: Janina Sajka
> > Date: Friday, 21 March 2003
> > Start Time: 2:00 pm
> > End Time: 4:40 pm
> > Room: Chicago/Dallas, at the Marriott Hotel
> >
> > Please note that we will have Internet access at this presentation, so
that our completed installation will be accessible over SSH. I would like to
> > demonstrate this to those who attend in person. So, I'm open to ideas
and suggestions from those on this list who will NOT be attending CSUN this
coming
> > March. What compelling capacity of Linux might be worthy of a brief
remote demonstration? Please let me know your thoughts.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

--

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Charles Crawford]

hello Ann and interested listers,

	I already have contacted Jonathan with respect to the idea of streaming 
the Linux install.  He has not gotten back to me as yet and there may be 
reasons not to do it, but worth exploring.

-- charlie Crawford.

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Patrick Turnage]

Hi
I have a suggestion if streaming is not an option. 
Maybe someone can get a good tape recorder or a laptop and can encode it in
to ogg or mp3 and then just place it online at a later date. Since the
people listening live to the stream will not be able to pertisipate in the
demonstration anyway who cares if it is real time or not.. Like I said this
is just another option if a stream is not available.


-----
Patrick Turnage
E-mail: pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
AOL Instant Messenger: kg4dqk
Home Page:
http://www.access-connect.com

RE: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Ed Barnes]

Hi Mike, sounds like you are easily impressed and before you get the 
temptation to flame might I tell you that I nailed the install using 
speakup on first try, I have done it a few times since.
My first time installing Linux with speakup was my first time installing 
the OS over all, I had never done it with sighted assistance before that 
particular install.
Mind you the first install wasn't perfect as once you nail the install and 
learn more about Linux you'll find imperfections with the install and the 
choices you made during the install for certain in my humble opinion.
Note too that I didn't know much about the screen reader at the time.
I simply read the well-written docs that can be found on speakup's web 
site, the same ones I'd recommend you read if you've not already done so.
So, in closing I'd say stop making excuses and get out there and give it 
the "old college try", if I was able to do it and countless others were as 
well what's stopping you.
Ed Barnes

At 11:51 AM 11/16/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>What wouod impress me is if someone who knew little about linux and the
>screen reader could do the demo.  The reason Im still a windblows user is
>because I was only able to instal linux with the patient help of friends. It
>took two hours to make it even remotely useable.  That to me is not the sign
>of a user-friendly system.
>I would be impressed if you could get a computer-savey person who didn't
>know much about linux to operate the screen reader, and do the install.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
>[mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
>Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:43 PM
>To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>Subject: Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN
>
>
>Hey, Jim:
>
>Yes, I think it would be possible to stream. It may be more hocus-pocus then
>there is time for, but it certainly is worth thinking about. If at all
>possible, I would want to do it. The room does have Internet, meaning
>ethernet, I believe. So, I could stream over my laptop whilst we blow away
>Windows
>and install Linux on the system there, or something like that.
>
>I don't know about what experience leve I will have. I imagine your
>estimation is correct, mostly AT and Windows familiarity.
>
>jwantz@babel.hpcc.noaa.gov writes:
> > From: jwantz@babel.hpcc.noaa.gov
> >
> > Hi Janina,
> > Is your audience going to be experienced linux users?  If not, why not
> > demonstrate remotely shutting down a system?  I have always considered
> > this very useful when my system was threatened by a thunderstorm.
> > I'm assuming there will be a majority of people familiar with
> > accessibility products but not linux.  Is there any possibility that can
> > broadcast the conference via a live stream?
> >
> >       Jim Wantz WB0TFK
> > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Janina
> > Sajka wrote:
> >
> > > I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a
>Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
> > > upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities,
>which will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport,
>(LAX), this
> > > coming March. You are invited to attend.
> > >
> > >     Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup
>Screen Reader
> > > Presenter name: Janina Sajka
> > > Date: Friday, 21 March 2003
> > > Start Time: 2:00 pm
> > > End Time: 4:40 pm
> > > Room: Chicago/Dallas, at the Marriott Hotel
> > >
> > > Please note that we will have Internet access at this presentation, so
>that our completed installation will be accessible over SSH. I would like to
> > > demonstrate this to those who attend in person. So, I'm open to ideas
>and suggestions from those on this list who will NOT be attending CSUN this
>coming
> > > March. What compelling capacity of Linux might be worthy of a brief
>remote demonstration? Please let me know your thoughts.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>--
>
>                                 Janina Sajka, Director
>                                 Technology Research and Development
>                                 Governmental Relations Group
>                                 American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>Email: janina@afb.net           Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[shaun_oliver]

On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 01:20:26AM -0330, Ed Barnes wrote:
if I was able to do it and countless others were as
well what's stopping you.
>>>>

Well, it appears to me that it's only pure stubbernness that's stopping
our friend here from trying to install linux.
Oh yes, I've seen and heard comments like, "imho linux is nowhere near
being ready for the average user." and "the average user is not gonna
wanna know how they're comuter works they just want to turn it on and
use it."
Well, more fool them I say. if you're not prepared to learn about your
computer and how it works and what it's all about and how to back out of
sticky situations, and believe me, it will happen, then you go right
ahead and be exploited by microsoft and a hand full of techies that want
nothing more than your hard earned dollars. 
To Qualify my statement, the majority of techies out there are
reasonably priced but there's always those select few that will take
your hard earned and do little more than tick this or point and shoot at
that and give you a long list of what was wrong in language you weren't
prepared to learn as a "user".
quit bitching about how hard something is and just bloody well do it. if
it dies in the arse, do it again. if you screw up, it's nobody's fault
but yours, so, do it again. and keep doing it until you get it right or
to a point where you consider it to be right enough for you.
When I installed slackware, my first distro, I knew shit about linux.
surficeth to say, I knew enough about speakup by reading docs and
listening to some tutorials and then going through the motions myself.
guess what, I'm still using linux. only the distro has changed, to
protect the innocent. hahaha.

-- 
Shaun Oliver

 It's multiple choice time...
      What is FORTRAN?
      a: Between thre and fiv tran.
      b: What two computers engage in before they interface.
      c: Ridiculous.

RE: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

Hi Ed and Mike,

Ed, thanks for your thoughtful reply to Mike's complaint. The
argument Mike made is sadly all too familiar to me after a career
teaching students most of whom did not want to learn, but only
wanted to "get their tickets punched" for meeting the minimum
requirements.

I struggled for years with how to respond to that problem.
Sometimes I tried to address the needs of the poorer students on
the theory that better students will get it anyway, no matter
what I do, and it is the poorer ones who need maximum attention.
So I tried to be 'user friendly'. What I found was that better
students were in fact not learning all that well, and everybody
gravitated toward the LCD (least common denominator). And
sometimes I just pushed for excellence which delighted the best
students and offended the followers. I often had folks come to my
office in some distress to ask, "Do we have to know all that
stuff?" That was so sad. One time a student spoke to me just
before class and said he had missed the last class session. He
wanted to know if I had said anything important.

Providing a user friendly OS that can be installed by a
disinterested novice entirely automatically is much like teaching
to the 'C' student. It spreads the word and gets everyone
started, but it also blocks the way forward for those who not
only want to know what is happening, but who will assimilate that
knowledge and build on it.

Mike's argument for a painless install geared to a naive beginner
is actually an elitest argument that deprives the beginner of
immediate and beneficial contact with his system. Not everyone
will go on to become an expert, but everyone will be invited to
do so, and many will accept the invitation.

Before the days of political correctness we never used the term
'user friendly'. I think we meant just about the same thing when
we boasted that something was designed to be 'idiot proof'.

Congratulations to Janina for pursuing the CSUN presentation. I
am not sure that live streaming is critical, but a good tape
recording converted to a digital format would be a wonderful
resource. Oh yes, and I would plug for the ogg/vorbis format too.

Chuck

PS - I am really happy to be retired - it gives me a chance to
finally think about what I have been up to all this while.


On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Ed Barnes wrote:

> Hi Mike, sounds like you are easily impressed and before you get the
> temptation to flame might I tell you that I nailed the install using
> speakup on first try, I have done it a few times since.

-- 
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (94% of Full)
So visit me sometime at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[ccrawford]

Shawn and others,

	I am basically in agreement that learning Linux is something that 
simply has to be done to get the fruits of it.  In short, there is work 
that must be done to get the system so it can be used.

	Having said that, we all must also understand that neither extreme 
really does much good.  In the long run, Linux should evolve to a much 
more user friendly system without sacrificing it's utility and users will 
need to make a real effort to use it's features.

	It's Sunday and lots of work ahead for me on the computer and so 
ta ta.

-- Charlie Crawford.

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Scott Howell]

Ah, We're back to this topic again.

Well folks the truth be told, the adverage person doesn't give a tiny 
tin damn about what os their machine runs, doesn't care to know ram from 
ram, and isn't even interested in fiddling about with the box. THey go 
to the store, purchase what they believe to be the best box for the 
bucks, come home, get out the big poster that tells them where to plug 
the keyboard, mouse, etc. in, and turn it on. What the adverage person 
does care about is how can the accomplish the task and how quickly 
without a great deal of fuss. The same applies to the adverage person 
who owns a car, they just want to drive and get where they are going. 
THey don't care how many cylinders it has, where its got a carb or fuel 
injected etc. I agree if your going to take on the task of learning an 
os, expect to hit bumps along the way and don't bitch, ask questions, 
read, learn, and so forth.
So, now if you wonder why there are technicians in the world, now you 
know. So, lets not go about beatting others on the head because they 
aren't interested in Linux or say that Linux isn't ready for the 
adverage user. In fact Linux can be used by the adverage user once its 
install. They wouldn't have a clue or care if its windows or Linux as 
long as they can accomplish the task at hand. It holds true that the 
same adverage user probably wouldn't want to install windows either. 
Hell you buy a machine and it comes with the os already install and most 
all applications. Now if you handed someone a LInux box with everything 
on it, I'm sure they would be just as happy. I think the only challenge 
is perhaps installing some new application. There is no generic method 
I'm aware of to install some package you bought from the store. 
COnsider if you were to buy some new word processing package, most LInux 
distros have a basic feel, but different installation methods, I can see 
how this would pose a problem for someone who would have to find a 
package for their distro. Because there is only one windows, its easy to 
purchase software. I think you see my point.
Ay, lets face it folks, Linux is not for everyone and neither is 
windows, and neither is the Mac os. YOu pick what works best for you. Of 
course thre are tinkers of cars, computers, and so on and that is what 
most of us are. We are interested in the "under the hood" stuff.

Scott

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[shaun_oliver]

I agree with that whole heartedly.
However, I take my extream view because people out there just want to
bitch and complain and give excuses why they couldn't be bothered,,
that's right, couldn't be bothered learning something just because it's
too hard or not point and shoot.
if you take an interest in linux, be aware that you're not gonna be
clicking next all the time and accepting the defaults. you do actually
have to think about how and where you want things to go.
and one major difference is you don't just have to take one web browser,
you can take the whole lot or the browser of your choosing.
so again, let's not complain and give up just because it looks hard,
believe me it's not, I knew even less about computers than I do now when
I installed linux, but, I haven't looked back.
anyway, I'm not saying anymore on this cause it's getting boring.

-- 
Shaun Oliver

 It's multiple choice time...
      What is FORTRAN?
      a: Between thre and fiv tran.
      b: What two computers engage in before they interface.
      c: Ridiculous.

RE: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Great post, Chuck, great post!  Keep 'em comin'.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

RE: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Chuck. Very good points. You're absolutely right on the expert thing.
Everyone who installs Linux will be invited to become an expert at how
their system works, and many will accept the invitation. However, sadly,
many will keep playing the M$ game, and be masked from the underlying
hardware and software by a silly gui that doesn't promote all the
functionality I would expect from an operating system for example.

May you code in the power of the source,
may the kernel, libraries, and utilities be with you,
throughout all distributions until the end of the epoch.

On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Chuck Hallenbeck wrote:

> Hi Ed and Mike,
>
> Ed, thanks for your thoughtful reply to Mike's complaint. The
> argument Mike made is sadly all too familiar to me after a career
> teaching students most of whom did not want to learn, but only
> wanted to "get their tickets punched" for meeting the minimum
> requirements.
>
> I struggled for years with how to respond to that problem.
> Sometimes I tried to address the needs of the poorer students on
> the theory that better students will get it anyway, no matter
> what I do, and it is the poorer ones who need maximum attention.
> So I tried to be 'user friendly'. What I found was that better
> students were in fact not learning all that well, and everybody
> gravitated toward the LCD (least common denominator). And
> sometimes I just pushed for excellence which delighted the best
> students and offended the followers. I often had folks come to my
> office in some distress to ask, "Do we have to know all that
> stuff?" That was so sad. One time a student spoke to me just
> before class and said he had missed the last class session. He
> wanted to know if I had said anything important.
>
> Providing a user friendly OS that can be installed by a
> disinterested novice entirely automatically is much like teaching
> to the 'C' student. It spreads the word and gets everyone
> started, but it also blocks the way forward for those who not
> only want to know what is happening, but who will assimilate that
> knowledge and build on it.
>
> Mike's argument for a painless install geared to a naive beginner
> is actually an elitest argument that deprives the beginner of
> immediate and beneficial contact with his system. Not everyone
> will go on to become an expert, but everyone will be invited to
> do so, and many will accept the invitation.
>
> Before the days of political correctness we never used the term
> 'user friendly'. I think we meant just about the same thing when
> we boasted that something was designed to be 'idiot proof'.
>
> Congratulations to Janina for pursuing the CSUN presentation. I
> am not sure that live streaming is critical, but a good tape
> recording converted to a digital format would be a wonderful
> resource. Oh yes, and I would plug for the ogg/vorbis format too.
>
> Chuck
>
> PS - I am really happy to be retired - it gives me a chance to
> finally think about what I have been up to all this while.
>
>
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Ed Barnes wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike, sounds like you are easily impressed and before you get the
> > temptation to flame might I tell you that I nailed the install using
> > speakup on first try, I have done it a few times since.
>
> --
> The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (94% of Full)
> So visit me sometime at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Scott. Now that you brought it up, its true that everyone chooses what
works for them. Unfortunately, M$ wants to impose their system on
everyone, which really isn't going to work. Others like me, who like to
see all low-level functionality, and be able to do whatever they want, are
severely impaired by a system like Winblows, which both hides the
underlying workings of the box, and makes someone use their stupid gui no
matter who they are. I'm supposed to interact with a gui when I can do the
same thing much faster and tweek it much more on the command line? I don't
think so!

May you code in the power of the source,
may the kernel, libraries, and utilities be with you,
throughout all distributions until the end of the epoch.

On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Scott Howell wrote:

> Ah, We're back to this topic again.
>
> Well folks the truth be told, the adverage person doesn't give a tiny
> tin damn about what os their machine runs, doesn't care to know ram from
> ram, and isn't even interested in fiddling about with the box. THey go
> to the store, purchase what they believe to be the best box for the
> bucks, come home, get out the big poster that tells them where to plug
> the keyboard, mouse, etc. in, and turn it on. What the adverage person
> does care about is how can the accomplish the task and how quickly
> without a great deal of fuss. The same applies to the adverage person
> who owns a car, they just want to drive and get where they are going.
> THey don't care how many cylinders it has, where its got a carb or fuel
> injected etc. I agree if your going to take on the task of learning an
> os, expect to hit bumps along the way and don't bitch, ask questions,
> read, learn, and so forth.
> So, now if you wonder why there are technicians in the world, now you
> know. So, lets not go about beatting others on the head because they
> aren't interested in Linux or say that Linux isn't ready for the
> adverage user. In fact Linux can be used by the adverage user once its
> install. They wouldn't have a clue or care if its windows or Linux as
> long as they can accomplish the task at hand. It holds true that the
> same adverage user probably wouldn't want to install windows either.
> Hell you buy a machine and it comes with the os already install and most
> all applications. Now if you handed someone a LInux box with everything
> on it, I'm sure they would be just as happy. I think the only challenge
> is perhaps installing some new application. There is no generic method
> I'm aware of to install some package you bought from the store.
> COnsider if you were to buy some new word processing package, most LInux
> distros have a basic feel, but different installation methods, I can see
> how this would pose a problem for someone who would have to find a
> package for their distro. Because there is only one windows, its easy to
> purchase software. I think you see my point.
> Ay, lets face it folks, Linux is not for everyone and neither is
> windows, and neither is the Mac os. YOu pick what works best for you. Of
> course thre are tinkers of cars, computers, and so on and that is what
> most of us are. We are interested in the "under the hood" stuff.
>
> Scott
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Kerry Hoath]

A point on what Scott says;
Sure they want to buy a car and drive where they want to go;
but they need to learn how to drive first.
Many people want to get work done with the minimum amount of effort.
They want to type a document; hit the   print button and look at
a nicely formatted piece of text.
Problem is; it gets work done; just not the best that can be done or the
nicest with the effort pu t in.
The wizards in publisher can crank out piles of shitty cards crappy calendars
and boring clipart.
We had to u se publisher for a desktop publishing course I did at TAFE;
and a friend learnt how to use publisher properly.
The teacher accused him of using Correl draw in stead of publisher
and was amazed to see it was really publisher.
He did not use the lame arsed card wizard; but h it
the "start from scratch" button and designed the wh ole thing from the ground up.
I know exactly why there are technitions; I am one after all.
Problem is; computers aren't for everyone; neither is home improvement.
Many people should never even pick up a hammer; many should also not
touch computers without a little training.
Knowledge is still required.
I can show you plenty of blind people who still can't use jaws properly;
insist on activating a button with enter;
(It is actually yspace bar see below) and never use the jaws cursor.

Take the example of the format disk dialog in win98/me/2k/xp.
You format a disk and see the summary  screen.
You ok the screen and have focus on  the close button.
You hit enter  and it formats the disk again. why? because the
close button has focus but is not selected.
hitting enter on a button will activate the default button; hitting space activates
the button with focus.
This is important in icq because hitting enter can close t he window.
It'll all take time to sort we  just  need t he right training
materials; people hwo  want ot learn and some
damn software speech.
The one thing that  stops  many people from running linux
is lack of software speech.
It's either learn emacs emacspeak and  use     viavoice
or use expensive screen reader eloquence
or other natural sounding evil software speech t hat comes to bits
on you  if the machine is flakey.
Software speech is nice; don't get me wrong;
but got  help you if your soundc ard is in any way marginal.
Anyone remember the stutter  problem with the early liveware?
If we  can get linux talking with alsa drivers; software speech and speakup
or GUI accessability many more people will join the
bandwagon.
Software speech allows  one to use a computer with no more than a soundcard and
headphones or speakers.


-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Erik Heil]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hey Igor,
Well, this is interesting.  .Net Server 2003 has a whole lot of command
utilities.  You can actually perform all administration tasks via the
console and it even has a command shell.  Wonder if they're actually ports
of Unix utilities?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN


> Hi Scott. Now that you brought it up, its true that everyone chooses what
> works for them. Unfortunately, M$ wants to impose their system on
> everyone, which really isn't going to work. Others like me, who like to
> see all low-level functionality, and be able to do whatever they want, are
> severely impaired by a system like Winblows, which both hides the
> underlying workings of the box, and makes someone use their stupid gui no
> matter who they are. I'm supposed to interact with a gui when I can do the
> same thing much faster and tweek it much more on the command line? I don't
> think so!
>
> May you code in the power of the source,
> may the kernel, libraries, and utilities be with you,
> throughout all distributions until the end of the epoch.
>
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Scott Howell wrote:
>
> > Ah, We're back to this topic again.
> >
> > Well folks the truth be told, the adverage person doesn't give a tiny
> > tin damn about what os their machine runs, doesn't care to know ram from
> > ram, and isn't even interested in fiddling about with the box. THey go
> > to the store, purchase what they believe to be the best box for the
> > bucks, come home, get out the big poster that tells them where to plug
> > the keyboard, mouse, etc. in, and turn it on. What the adverage person
> > does care about is how can the accomplish the task and how quickly
> > without a great deal of fuss. The same applies to the adverage person
> > who owns a car, they just want to drive and get where they are going.
> > THey don't care how many cylinders it has, where its got a carb or fuel
> > injected etc. I agree if your going to take on the task of learning an
> > os, expect to hit bumps along the way and don't bitch, ask questions,
> > read, learn, and so forth.
> > So, now if you wonder why there are technicians in the world, now you
> > know. So, lets not go about beatting others on the head because they
> > aren't interested in Linux or say that Linux isn't ready for the
> > adverage user. In fact Linux can be used by the adverage user once its
> > install. They wouldn't have a clue or care if its windows or Linux as
> > long as they can accomplish the task at hand. It holds true that the
> > same adverage user probably wouldn't want to install windows either.
> > Hell you buy a machine and it comes with the os already install and most
> > all applications. Now if you handed someone a LInux box with everything
> > on it, I'm sure they would be just as happy. I think the only challenge
> > is perhaps installing some new application. There is no generic method
> > I'm aware of to install some package you bought from the store.
> > COnsider if you were to buy some new word processing package, most LInux
> > distros have a basic feel, but different installation methods, I can see
> > how this would pose a problem for someone who would have to find a
> > package for their distro. Because there is only one windows, its easy to
> > purchase software. I think you see my point.
> > Ay, lets face it folks, Linux is not for everyone and neither is
> > windows, and neither is the Mac os. YOu pick what works best for you. Of
> > course thre are tinkers of cars, computers, and so on and that is what
> > most of us are. We are interested in the "under the hood" stuff.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
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Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Scott Howell]

Ah, you understand, but still are missing a part of my point. Yes, true 
you want to do all these things, but not everyone does. Those who choose 
Linux are not generally your typical user or are searching for something 
better. As far as whether a gui or commandline offers more control, well 
you could debate that point. I see the gui as making some tasks more 
efficient and the commandline allows probably for more flexibility and 
certainly for tweaking some like the output of a directory listing; well 
without a doubt its faster to type in what you wish to have as a result 
than it is to put check marks in boxes.
Does this make more sense?

Scott

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Scott Howell]

Ah, let me make sure I do state that in my mind, knowledge is power and 
a lack of knowledge is or the amount of knowledge is incumbent upon the 
user. Like the example of driving; you got a car, but its up to you to 
learn how to operate it and care for it. Of course caring for it can be 
either your job or you can pay someone to do it for you, but of course 
you can do it yourself and pay someone to do the things you are not 
equip to do. I think you can apply this to many things in life 
including computers.

Scott

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Janina Sajka]

Well, I think I understand your concern, but I don't understand how having an experienced person doing the install is
going to teach anyone anything. Would you want to learn chemistry from somebody who didn't know anything about
chemistry? I think not. I think you'd want a good teacher.

That's the nub of it, in my view. There are good teachers, and then there are not such good teachers. Of course, the
same can be said for students.

That last statement is a general statement, it's not about you specifically. I don't know anything about what happened
to you.

michael malver writes:
> From: "michael malver" <mmalver@visi.com>
> 
> What wouod impress me is if someone who knew little about linux and the
> screen reader could do the demo.  The reason Im still a windblows user is
> because I was only able to instal linux with the patient help of friends. It
> took two hours to make it even remotely useable.  That to me is not the sign
> of a user-friendly system.
> I would be impressed if you could get a computer-savey person who didn't
> know much about linux to operate the screen reader, and do the install.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:43 PM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN
> 
> 
> Hey, Jim:
> 
> Yes, I think it would be possible to stream. It may be more hocus-pocus then
> there is time for, but it certainly is worth thinking about. If at all
> possible, I would want to do it. The room does have Internet, meaning
> ethernet, I believe. So, I could stream over my laptop whilst we blow away
> Windows
> and install Linux on the system there, or something like that.
> 
> I don't know about what experience leve I will have. I imagine your
> estimation is correct, mostly AT and Windows familiarity.
> 
> jwantz@babel.hpcc.noaa.gov writes:
> > From: jwantz@babel.hpcc.noaa.gov
> >
> > Hi Janina,
> > Is your audience going to be experienced linux users?  If not, why not
> > demonstrate remotely shutting down a system?  I have always considered
> > this very useful when my system was threatened by a thunderstorm.
> > I'm assuming there will be a majority of people familiar with
> > accessibility products but not linux.  Is there any possibility that can
> > broadcast the conference via a live stream?
> >
> >       Jim Wantz WB0TFK
> > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Janina
> > Sajka wrote:
> >
> > > I am pleased to announce that the installation and configuration of a
> Linux computer, using Red Hat 8.0 with Speakup, will be demonstrated at the
> > > upcoming CSUN Conference, Technology and Persons with Disabilities,
> which will be held in hotels near the Los Angeles International Airport,
> (LAX), this
> > > coming March. You are invited to attend.
> > >
> > > 	Session Title: How To Install Red Hat Linux Using Only The Speakup
> Screen Reader
> > > Presenter name: Janina Sajka
> > > Date: Friday, 21 March 2003
> > > Start Time: 2:00 pm
> > > End Time: 4:40 pm
> > > Room: Chicago/Dallas, at the Marriott Hotel
> > >
> > > Please note that we will have Internet access at this presentation, so
> that our completed installation will be accessible over SSH. I would like to
> > > demonstrate this to those who attend in person. So, I'm open to ideas
> and suggestions from those on this list who will NOT be attending CSUN this
> coming
> > > March. What compelling capacity of Linux might be worthy of a brief
> remote demonstration? Please let me know your thoughts.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> --
> 
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[ccrawford]

Erick,

	That was interesting what you said about .net server.  What kind 
of command line utilities and how did you access them with what speech 
prgram?

-- Charlie.

RE: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[John Lee]

Is .net server available yet or is it still the beta?

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of ccrawford@acb.org
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 3:05 PM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN


Erick,

	That was interesting what you said about .net server.  What kind

of command line utilities and how did you access them with what speech 
prgram?

-- Charlie.



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Installing Linux with Speakup Scheduled at CSUN

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

<smile>  One thing you are not, Shaun, is boring!  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT