some semi technical questions

some semi technical questions

[Rob Hudson]

I am going to be writing a speech interface for irssi, similar to that which is already present in mirc. That was one of the things I immediately missed upon my switch to linux.
Would it be better to have the scripts send messages to something like speech-dispatcher, or can messages be queued and sent directly to speakup itself? This project is only in the idea phase now, so i'm drawing a blueprint of how I want it to go.

Re: some semi technical questions

[Samuel Thibault]

Rob Hudson, le Thu 26 Dec 2013 11:19:26 -0600, a écrit :
> Would it be better to have the scripts send messages to something like speech-dispatcher,

Definitely.

Samuel

Re: some semi technical questions

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013, Rob Hudson wrote:

> Would it be better to have the scripts send messages to something like speech-dispatcher, or can messages be queued and sent directly to speakup itself?

Why not just have your script send messages to the screen and let the
screen reader handle them?




-- 

 Chuck, now in Ghent: (northeast of Hudson on the Hudson)

Re: some semi technical questions

[Rob Hudson]

Irssi already does that. What I am working on is better channel and message 
level control for what you hear, not what is displayed.
For instance, with this script, you will be able to monitor more than one 
channel at once, without having to pin windows to each other, eg.
/join -window #channel
You will also have the ability to turn off windows, disable speech entirely 
without turning off speakup, have long url's shortened *ever seen an ebay 
link?) and a few other nifty things. You
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chuck Hallenbeck" <chuckh@ftml.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." 
<speakup@linux-speakup.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: some semi technical questions


> On Thu, 26 Dec 2013, Rob Hudson wrote:
>
>> Would it be better to have the scripts send messages to something like 
>> speech-dispatcher, or can messages be queued and sent directly to speakup 
>> itself?
>
> Why not just have your script send messages to the screen and let the
> screen reader handle them?
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Chuck, now in Ghent: (northeast of Hudson on the Hudson)
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re: some semi technical questions

[Janina Sajka]

If I understand you, you want to turn irssi into a self-voicing app. If
so, you're best off using the GTK version, imo, so that you can pass
text strings directly to AT-SPI. I don't see how you would achieve this
kind of object oriented approach with Speakup.

But, perhaps I misunderstand?

Janina

Rob Hudson writes:
> I am going to be writing a speech interface for irssi, similar to that which is already present in mirc. That was one of the things I immediately missed upon my switch to linux.
> Would it be better to have the scripts send messages to something like speech-dispatcher, or can messages be queued and sent directly to speakup itself? This project is only in the idea phase now, so i'm drawing a blueprint of how I want it to go.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/

Re: some semi technical questions

[Rob Hudson]

Why couldn't  irssi interface directly with speech-dispatcher?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." 
<speakup@linux-speakup.org>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: some semi technical questions


> If I understand you, you want to turn irssi into a self-voicing app. If
> so, you're best off using the GTK version, imo, so that you can pass
> text strings directly to AT-SPI. I don't see how you would achieve this
> kind of object oriented approach with Speakup.
>
> But, perhaps I misunderstand?
>
> Janina
>
> Rob Hudson writes:
>> I am going to be writing a speech interface for irssi, similar to that 
>> which is already present in mirc. That was one of the things I 
>> immediately missed upon my switch to linux.
>> Would it be better to have the scripts send messages to something like 
>> speech-dispatcher, or can messages be queued and sent directly to speakup 
>> itself? This project is only in the idea phase now, so i'm drawing a 
>> blueprint of how I want it to go.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
> sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
> Email: janina@rednote.net
>
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
>
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re: some semi technical questions

[Janina Sajka]

Rob Hudson writes:
> Why couldn't  irssi interface directly with speech-dispatcher?


I suppose it could. But aren't you then taking on supporting more of the
spoken interface than you otherwise would? For instance, with the API
approach you can take advantage of builtin support for live regions.
Going the sd route, you'd have to replicate that in code, imo. Seems to
me tracking smart regions might be a useful way to manage multiple
windows and irc channels.

Janina

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka"
> <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
> <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 1:02 AM
> Subject: Re: some semi technical questions
> 
> 
> >If I understand you, you want to turn irssi into a self-voicing app. If
> >so, you're best off using the GTK version, imo, so that you can pass
> >text strings directly to AT-SPI. I don't see how you would achieve this
> >kind of object oriented approach with Speakup.
> >
> >But, perhaps I misunderstand?
> >
> >Janina
> >
> >Rob Hudson writes:
> >>I am going to be writing a speech interface for irssi, similar
> >>to that which is already present in mirc. That was one of the
> >>things I immediately missed upon my switch to linux.
> >>Would it be better to have the scripts send messages to
> >>something like speech-dispatcher, or can messages be queued and
> >>sent directly to speakup itself? This project is only in the
> >>idea phase now, so i'm drawing a blueprint of how I want it to
> >>go.
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Speakup mailing list
> >>Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> >>http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >-- 
> >
> >Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
> >sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
> >Email: janina@rednote.net
> >
> >Linux Foundation Fellow
> >Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> >
> >The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> >Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> >http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/

Re: some semi technical questions

[Rob Hudson]

Irssi already has the framework for dealing with windows. In effect all this 
script is doing is putting in some additional functions. I'll need to learn 
a bit more about perl and irssi's approach to it in particular, but I think 
you are trying to make things a bit more difficult than it needs to be. Once 
I do get something working, I will report back to the list. But I'm a slow 
learner, grin.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." 
<speakup@linux-speakup.org>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: some semi technical questions


> Rob Hudson writes:
>> Why couldn't  irssi interface directly with speech-dispatcher?
>
>
> I suppose it could. But aren't you then taking on supporting more of the
> spoken interface than you otherwise would? For instance, with the API
> approach you can take advantage of builtin support for live regions.
> Going the sd route, you'd have to replicate that in code, imo. Seems to
> me tracking smart regions might be a useful way to manage multiple
> windows and irc channels.
>
> Janina
>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka"
>> <janina@rednote.net>
>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
>> <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 1:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: some semi technical questions
>>
>>
>> >If I understand you, you want to turn irssi into a self-voicing app. If
>> >so, you're best off using the GTK version, imo, so that you can pass
>> >text strings directly to AT-SPI. I don't see how you would achieve this
>> >kind of object oriented approach with Speakup.
>> >
>> >But, perhaps I misunderstand?
>> >
>> >Janina
>> >
>> >Rob Hudson writes:
>> >>I am going to be writing a speech interface for irssi, similar
>> >>to that which is already present in mirc. That was one of the
>> >>things I immediately missed upon my switch to linux.
>> >>Would it be better to have the scripts send messages to
>> >>something like speech-dispatcher, or can messages be queued and
>> >>sent directly to speakup itself? This project is only in the
>> >>idea phase now, so i'm drawing a blueprint of how I want it to
>> >>go.
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>Speakup mailing list
>> >>Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> >>http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >
>> >-- 
>> >
>> >Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
>> >sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
>> >Email: janina@rednote.net
>> >
>> >Linux Foundation Fellow
>> >Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
>> >
>> >The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>> >Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
>> >Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Speakup mailing list
>> >Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> >http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
> sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
> Email: janina@rednote.net
>
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
>
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re: some semi technical questions

[Chris Brannon]

"Rob Hudson" <captinlogic@gmail.com> writes:

> Why couldn't  irssi interface directly with speech-dispatcher?

You have a couple of options here.
Some googling finds a Perl module for interfacing with Speech
Dispatcher.  I can't vouch for its quality or usefulness.
If it doesn't suit you, perhaps you can improve it.
The other option is to call out to the spd-say binary.
Be careful here, because this is the sort of thing that can lead to
nasty remote code execution bugs.

-- Chris

Re: some semi technical questions

[Janina Sajka]

OK. I'm not trying to stop anything you have in mind. I'm simply trying
to suggest you consider the full panoply of available tools before
jumping in.


I understand Irssi already has sophisticated Windows support. But Live
Regions support in the accessibility APIs wasn't invented to provide
windows support where none existed. It was created to make those regions
more manageable for people using assistive technology, speech, braille,
magnification, alternative input, etc.

So, I don't understand why you're telling me Irssi already has Windows
support. Clearly, you're thinking that isn't enough, or you wouldn't be
brain storming adding some kind of functionality to make Irssi more
useful to screen reader users. Clearly, you don't think Irssi is enough
on its own.

Janina



Rob Hudson writes:
> Irssi already has the framework for dealing with windows. In effect
> all this script is doing is putting in some additional functions.
> I'll need to learn a bit more about perl and irssi's approach to it
> in particular, but I think you are trying to make things a bit more
> difficult than it needs to be. Once I do get something working, I
> will report back to the list. But I'm a slow learner, grin.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka"
> <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
> <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:18 PM
> Subject: Re: some semi technical questions
> 
> 
> >Rob Hudson writes:
> >>Why couldn't  irssi interface directly with speech-dispatcher?
> >
> >
> >I suppose it could. But aren't you then taking on supporting more of the
> >spoken interface than you otherwise would? For instance, with the API
> >approach you can take advantage of builtin support for live regions.
> >Going the sd route, you'd have to replicate that in code, imo. Seems to
> >me tracking smart regions might be a useful way to manage multiple
> >windows and irc channels.
> >
> >Janina
> >
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Janina Sajka"
> >><janina@rednote.net>
> >>To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
> >><speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> >>Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 1:02 AM
> >>Subject: Re: some semi technical questions
> >>
> >>
> >>>If I understand you, you want to turn irssi into a self-voicing app. If
> >>>so, you're best off using the GTK version, imo, so that you can pass
> >>>text strings directly to AT-SPI. I don't see how you would achieve this
> >>>kind of object oriented approach with Speakup.
> >>>
> >>>But, perhaps I misunderstand?
> >>>
> >>>Janina
> >>>
> >>>Rob Hudson writes:
> >>>>I am going to be writing a speech interface for irssi, similar
> >>>>to that which is already present in mirc. That was one of the
> >>>>things I immediately missed upon my switch to linux.
> >>>>Would it be better to have the scripts send messages to
> >>>>something like speech-dispatcher, or can messages be queued and
> >>>>sent directly to speakup itself? This project is only in the
> >>>>idea phase now, so i'm drawing a blueprint of how I want it to
> >>>>go.
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>Speakup mailing list
> >>>>Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> >>>>http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>>
> >>>-- >
> >>>Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
> >>>sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
> >>>Email: janina@rednote.net
> >>>
> >>>Linux Foundation Fellow
> >>>Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> >>>
> >>>The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >>>Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> >>>Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Speakup mailing list
> >>>Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> >>>http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Speakup mailing list
> >>Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> >>http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >-- 
> >
> >Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
> >sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
> >Email: janina@rednote.net
> >
> >Linux Foundation Fellow
> >Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> >
> >The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> >Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> >http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/