Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Martin McCormick]

	This discussion brings up a question. There is a most
annoying problem in Dell and possibly other BIOS' in which the
boot sequence reverts to one that puts the hard drive before
the CDROM. If the hard drive appears bootable but isn't or you
don't like what it does, you are out of luck

	All the systems in question have usb ports but they are
not part of the boot selection. One of them has no floppy drive
although the BIOS still lists drive A indicating you could
probably add it temporarily. 

	Has anybody else had this happen and did you find a way
short of asking somebody to help you re-order the boot sequence,
to fix this problem?

	I think the low-level code in the BIOS detects a problem
in the boot sequence at some time and resets itself but I am not
sure what triggers it. It has happened often enough on enough
different systems that I am pretty sure they were set properly
at first and then mysteriously re-order themselves some time
later.

	One doesn't notice anything until it is time to try out
a live CD or use a CDROM in rescue mode at which time you
realize that it isn't going to happen just yet.

Gregory Nowak writes:
> Yes, this should still work, since the installer searches for media
> before actually starting to do the install. So, you should in fact be
> able to boot from an internal cd drive, and do the install from dvd in
> an external drive, provided debian recognizes the external drive,
> which it should. HTH.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
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Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Kitty Litter]

On many machines you can press f11 or f12 repeatedly and then you choose 
your boot device with up and down arrow and then press enter. If you know 
the bios you have you might be able to look it up. It's been a long time 
since I've booted from USB on my linux machine that whenever I have to do it 
again, it will be a big trama! 

Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Kerry Hoath]

On most dell boxes tapping f11 or f12 I can't remember which during 
bootup pulls up the BIOS boot menu.
Then it's usually down arrow once and you get the cd, although you can 
do it with trial and error and multiple presses of down arrow with a 
reboot in the middle. Once you know how many down the cdrom is this 
rarely if ever changes on a particular box.


Regards, Kerry.

On 9/04/2012 9:39 PM, Martin McCormick wrote:
> 	This discussion brings up a question. There is a most
> annoying problem in Dell and possibly other BIOS' in which the
> boot sequence reverts to one that puts the hard drive before
> the CDROM. If the hard drive appears bootable but isn't or you
> don't like what it does, you are out of luck
>
> 	All the systems in question have usb ports but they are
> not part of the boot selection. One of them has no floppy drive
> although the BIOS still lists drive A indicating you could
> probably add it temporarily.
>
> 	Has anybody else had this happen and did you find a way
> short of asking somebody to help you re-order the boot sequence,
> to fix this problem?
>
> 	I think the low-level code in the BIOS detects a problem
> in the boot sequence at some time and resets itself but I am not
> sure what triggers it. It has happened often enough on enough
> different systems that I am pretty sure they were set properly
> at first and then mysteriously re-order themselves some time
> later.
>
> 	One doesn't notice anything until it is time to try out
> a live CD or use a CDROM in rescue mode at which time you
> realize that it isn't going to happen just yet.
>
> Gregory Nowak writes:
>> Yes, this should still work, since the installer searches for media
>> before actually starting to do the install. So, you should in fact be
>> able to boot from an internal cd drive, and do the install from dvd in
>> an external drive, provided debian recognizes the external drive,
>> which it should. HTH.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> - --
>> web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
>> gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
>> skype: gregn1
>> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>>
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>> n50AmgJ6jNKbKBN0SvaMKlN1wB8YDz4S
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Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Glenn]

Well, I think the floppy is always there in front of the HD, so a bootloader 
on a floppy should fix that problem.
Glenn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin McCormick" <martin@dc.cis.okstate.edu>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.


This discussion brings up a question. There is a most
annoying problem in Dell and possibly other BIOS' in which the
boot sequence reverts to one that puts the hard drive before
the CDROM. If the hard drive appears bootable but isn't or you
don't like what it does, you are out of luck

All the systems in question have usb ports but they are
not part of the boot selection. One of them has no floppy drive
although the BIOS still lists drive A indicating you could
probably add it temporarily.

Has anybody else had this happen and did you find a way
short of asking somebody to help you re-order the boot sequence,
to fix this problem?

I think the low-level code in the BIOS detects a problem
in the boot sequence at some time and resets itself but I am not
sure what triggers it. It has happened often enough on enough
different systems that I am pretty sure they were set properly
at first and then mysteriously re-order themselves some time
later.

One doesn't notice anything until it is time to try out
a live CD or use a CDROM in rescue mode at which time you
realize that it isn't going to happen just yet.

Gregory Nowak writes:
> Yes, this should still work, since the installer searches for media
> before actually starting to do the install. So, you should in fact be
> able to boot from an internal cd drive, and do the install from dvd in
> an external drive, provided debian recognizes the external drive,
> which it should. HTH.
>
> Greg
>
>
> - --
> web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
> gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>
> - --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAk+Cg+wACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyBb6wCgh7OeYCmBA+fx1MJiQkkqAKLF
> n50AmgJ6jNKbKBN0SvaMKlN1wB8YDz4S
> =dw1v
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Apr 09, 2012 at 10:30:30AM -0500, Glenn wrote:
> Well, I think the floppy is always there in front of the HD, so a bootloader 
> on a floppy should fix that problem.

Assuming the system in question has a floppy drive installed.

Greg


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SR4AoKdRTuVwNyoEPqIekFM0VkuQMLqG
=TOhq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Kerry Hoath]

And no garantee floppy always trumps hard drive, some bioses do hard 
drive first.

On 10/04/2012 3:58 AM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Mon, Apr 09, 2012 at 10:30:30AM -0500, Glenn wrote:
>> Well, I think the floppy is always there in front of the HD, so a bootloader
>> on a floppy should fix that problem.
>
> Assuming the system in question has a floppy drive installed.
>
> Greg
>
>
> - --
> web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
> gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>
> - --
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> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAk+DP2gACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyDM7wCgpx9iC0lFtH0S3S5LdULFaJnP
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Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Karen Lewellen]

Well I am selective about these things.
My main  computer, the one I am using at this moment has..
1, 3.5 drive
1, 5.25 drive
an internal cd burner, and two internal hard drives.
the laptop on which I was thinking of installing until I learned it only 
has one hard drive bay
has a floppy, 3.5 a cd  burner,  and a hard drive.
The last machine that will likely hold the install now has a 3.5 drive and 
did have two internal hard drives until recently.
all of my machines have usb ports,  and all of the machines with operating 
systems run dos.
I have a 160 gb external hard drive as well for backup purposes.


I hav
e an older mac too for running production software, but that is 
beyond the scope of this discussion.
When my friend was here on Sunday, he checked both bios to see if 
eitehrhad the option in them to boot from usb, neither the IBM thinkpad 
600 series, or the second custom built  desktop has this option.
Karen

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012, Kerry Hoath wrote:

>
> And no garantee floppy always trumps hard drive, some bioses do hard drive 
> first.
>
> On 10/04/2012 3:58 AM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>  Hash: SHA1
>>
>>  On Mon, Apr 09, 2012 at 10:30:30AM -0500, Glenn wrote:
>> >  Well, I think the floppy is always there in front of the HD, so a 
>> >  bootloader
>> >  on a floppy should fix that problem.
>>
>>  Assuming the system in question has a floppy drive installed.
>>
>>  Greg
>> 
>>
>>  - --
>>  web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
>>  gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
>>  skype: gregn1
>>  (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>>
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>>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>  Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>>  iEYEARECAAYFAk+DP2gACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyDM7wCgpx9iC0lFtH0S3S5LdULFaJnP
>>  SR4AoKdRTuVwNyoEPqIekFM0VkuQMLqG
>>  =TOhq
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Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Glenn]

I have never run into this as the boot setup by default.
Often the CD drive is third, and I change that to second, but I don't know 
why a manufacturer would ship a computer with the floppy drive not the first 
boot device, unless a customer asks for that configuration.
Glenn

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012, Kerry Hoath wrote:

>
> And no garantee floppy always trumps hard drive, some bioses do hard drive
> first.
>
> On 10/04/2012 3:58 AM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>  Hash: SHA1
>>
>>  On Mon, Apr 09, 2012 at 10:30:30AM -0500, Glenn wrote:
>> >  Well, I think the floppy is always there in front of the HD, so a
>> >  bootloader
>> >  on a floppy should fix that problem.
>>
>>  Assuming the system in question has a floppy drive installed.
>>
>>  Greg
>>
>>
>>  - --
>>  web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
>>  gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
>>  skype: gregn1
>>  (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>>
>>  - --
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>>
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>>  SR4AoKdRTuVwNyoEPqIekFM0VkuQMLqG
>>  =TOhq
>>  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Kerry Hoath]

Actually floppy controllers are still part of the super i/o chipset in 
modern systems, my quad-core AMD has a floppy controller on the board 
and it was built last year.
I haven't been motivated to put the floppy drive in here though, I have 
7 of the USB variety.

Regards, Kerry.

On 11/04/2012 9:33 PM, Martin McCormick wrote:
> 	The system I have that started the discussion of the
> boot sequence has no floppy drive at all. It's possible there is
> a traditional floppy controller and connector hidden somewhere
> on the board, but it was manufactured around 2004 or so and
> floppies were starting to fall out of favor by then. I can't
> imagine why they left out such a vital resource as one could
> have used it and around seventy-thousand floppy disks to back up
> the 70-gig hard drive in, let's see, about 48 days.
>
> 	The BIOS setup screen actually lists a Drive A but you'd
> have to probably find an IDE floppy drive to make it work.
>
> 	Fortunately, the boot sequence did not change on this
> system. I was just confused by the way the power-off sleep
> feature worked.
>
> 	As of last night, I was able to use the wheezy rescue
> disk to mount the hard drive so I could go in and edit the file
> names in /etc/rc2.d. Those are all the scripts that start
> important unix services such as cron and many others.
> There is a README file that tells you how to prevent a service
> from starting so I turned off bluetooth as there is no bluetooth
> controller, gdm3 as there is not a mouse present and I think
> maybe one more service.
>
> 	The system rebooted and speakup came right up each time.
> I now have a good command-line system with an accessible login
> prompt.
>
> 	It seems like I read that somebody got gnome to run with
> speakup, though. The goal is to be able to use it all. I would
> really like to get firefox working in gnome. Lots of other
> things are less hassle under the command line.
>
> Glenn writes:
>> I have never run into this as the boot setup by default.
>> Often the CD drive is third, and I change that to second, but I don't know
>> why a manufacturer would ship a computer with the floppy drive not the
>> first
>> boot device, unless a customer asks for that configuration.
>> Glenn
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Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Martin McCormick]

	The system I have that started the discussion of the
boot sequence has no floppy drive at all. It's possible there is
a traditional floppy controller and connector hidden somewhere
on the board, but it was manufactured around 2004 or so and
floppies were starting to fall out of favor by then. I can't
imagine why they left out such a vital resource as one could
have used it and around seventy-thousand floppy disks to back up
the 70-gig hard drive in, let's see, about 48 days. 

	The BIOS setup screen actually lists a Drive A but you'd
have to probably find an IDE floppy drive to make it work.

	Fortunately, the boot sequence did not change on this
system. I was just confused by the way the power-off sleep
feature worked.

	As of last night, I was able to use the wheezy rescue
disk to mount the hard drive so I could go in and edit the file
names in /etc/rc2.d. Those are all the scripts that start
important unix services such as cron and many others. 
There is a README file that tells you how to prevent a service
from starting so I turned off bluetooth as there is no bluetooth
controller, gdm3 as there is not a mouse present and I think
maybe one more service.

	The system rebooted and speakup came right up each time.
I now have a good command-line system with an accessible login
prompt. 

	It seems like I read that somebody got gnome to run with
speakup, though. The goal is to be able to use it all. I would
really like to get firefox working in gnome. Lots of other
things are less hassle under the command line.

Glenn writes:
> I have never run into this as the boot setup by default.
> Often the CD drive is third, and I change that to second, but I don't know
> why a manufacturer would ship a computer with the floppy drive not the 
> first
> boot device, unless a customer asks for that configuration.
> Glenn

Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Karen Lewellen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 779 bytes --]

My thanks Samuel, others, Glenn I believe?
I now have two solutions, try it without super grub, or do it for sure with 
it.
Karen

On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> Karen Lewellen, le Mon 09 Apr 2012 00:32:04 -0400, a écrit :
>> is it possible to  mix media if that media is in different drives?
>> In this case, I would boot and start the installation from the cd drive in
>> my computer.  However I would be finishing installations an external DVD
>> drive attached to a USB port.
>> Still possible?
>
> Yes. The debian installer does not even know where it was booted from.
>
> Samuel
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Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Samuel Thibault]

Karen Lewellen, le Mon 09 Apr 2012 00:32:04 -0400, a écrit :
> is it possible to  mix media if that media is in different drives?
> In this case, I would boot and start the installation from the cd drive in
> my computer.  However I would be finishing installations an external DVD
> drive attached to a USB port.
> Still possible?

Yes. The debian installer does not even know where it was booted from.

Samuel

Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Apr 09, 2012 at 12:32:04AM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> is it possible to  mix media if that media is in different drives?
> In this case, I would boot and start the installation from the cd
> drive in my computer.  However I would be finishing installations an
> external DVD drive attached to a USB port.
> Still possible?

Yes, this should still work, since the installer searches for media
before actually starting to do the install. So, you should in fact be
able to boot from an internal cd drive, and do the install from dvd in
an external drive, provided debian recognizes the external drive,
which it should. HTH.

Greg


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=dw1v
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Karen Lewellen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 892 bytes --]

Samuel,
One of your great gifts is your answering things exactly as written.
so, let me ask this again.
is it possible to  mix media if that media is in different drives?
In this case, I would boot and start the installation from the cd drive in 
my computer.  However I would be finishing installations an external 
DVD drive attached to a USB port.
Still possible?
Karen

On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> Karen Lewellen, le Sun 08 Apr 2012 19:29:27 -0400, a écrit :
>> Is it possible to boot an install in one media, cd, then finish installation
>> using another, say DVD?
>
> Yes. Simply eject the CD once you are in the installer. When the
> installer prompts for CDs, insert DVDs.
>
> Samuel
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Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Glenn]

One idea I have, is to download supergrub, which is a bootloader, and it 
will see the installation media on the USB drive, and allow you to boot over 
to that.
SuperGrub can be installed both on a floppy disk or a CD-ROM.
GRUB stands for grand unified bootloader.  Debian and Ubuntu Debian use it 
by default when you install a dual-boot system.
It always boots first and allows you to pick operating systems, in which it 
will see the install CD as a system to boot to.
If you search for supergrub, you will find it.
I don't have a link right now.
HTH.
Glenn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@shellworld.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 6:29 PM
Subject: mixing media, was talking debian install.


greetings all,
An unusual question indeed.
My friend gave me the bet of DVD images of Debian, but I did not realize
I might have a different issue.
While both of the possible computers I might use for this have usb ports,
and I have an external usb DVD drive, I cannot actually boot from usb at
all.
I can boot from the cd drive certainly which is motivating my question.
Is it possible to boot an install in one media, cd, then finish
installation using another, say DVD?
There is no issue with the machines seeing the drive, or I feel there will
be none.
But I must boot from something else if this is going to work.
Thoughts?
Karen
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Re: mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Samuel Thibault]

Karen Lewellen, le Sun 08 Apr 2012 19:29:27 -0400, a écrit :
> Is it possible to boot an install in one media, cd, then finish installation
> using another, say DVD?

Yes. Simply eject the CD once you are in the installer. When the
installer prompts for CDs, insert DVDs.

Samuel

mixing media, was talking debian install.

[Karen Lewellen]

greetings all,
An unusual question indeed.
My friend gave me the bet of DVD images of Debian, but I did not realize 
I might have a different issue.
While both of the possible computers I might use for this have usb ports, 
and I have an external usb DVD drive, I cannot actually boot from usb at 
all.
I can boot from the cd drive certainly which is motivating my question.
Is it possible to boot an install in one media, cd, then finish 
installation using another, say DVD?
There is no issue with the machines seeing the drive, or I feel there will 
be none.
But I must boot from something else if this is going to work.
Thoughts?
Karen