* bleeps and does anyone use goto
@ David
` Zachary Kline
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: David @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
feature. two features I would like to add are:
collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto bleeps and does anyone use goto David @ ` Zachary Kline ` Chuck Hallenbeck ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Zachary Kline @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I definitely don't, it's poorly implemented, in my experience. I'd much rather see on screen find. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 11, 2016, at 3:20 PM, David <david.a.borowski@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt. > I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code. > Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good > feature. two features I would like to add are: > collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto. > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto bleeps and does anyone use goto David ` Zachary Kline @ ` Chuck Hallenbeck ` Willem van der Walt ` Shawn Kirkpatrick 3 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Chuck Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8, Size: 732 bytes --] David, Agreed. Drop goto. After 15 years of using speakup, I have not once gone to. Chuck On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 06:20:09PM -0400, David wrote: > Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt. > I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code. > Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good > feature. two features I would like to add are: > collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto. > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Willoughby Ohio Temperature 68°F Conditions Clear The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (74% of Full) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto bleeps and does anyone use goto David ` Zachary Kline ` Chuck Hallenbeck @ ` Willem van der Walt ` Shawn Kirkpatrick 3 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Willem van der Walt @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi, I use goto, but it is to find a spot on the screen, so if there is such a feature, I will not miss goto. HTH, Willem On Sun, 11 Sep 2016, David wrote: > Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt. > I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code. > Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good > feature. two features I would like to add are: > collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto. > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard. The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. Please consider the environment before printing this email. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto bleeps and does anyone use goto David ` (2 preceding siblings ...) ` Willem van der Walt @ ` Shawn Kirkpatrick ` Gregory Nowak 3 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Shawn Kirkpatrick @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I would use goto but in my kernel this doesn't work propperly at all. I'm on a slightly older kernel version so maybe this has been fixed in a later version. What I'd like to have is the ability to map going to a specific line to a key. I'm thinking of imitating the review mode feature in the old artic vision program where pressing a through y takes you to the given line, a for line 1, b for line 2, etc. Not having this feature has kept me from using speakup for any serious work. Having the ability to move quickly to a given point is a must for me. Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long overdue I'd say. On Sun, 11 Sep 2016, David wrote: > Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt. > I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code. > Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good > feature. two features I would like to add are: > collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto. > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto ` Shawn Kirkpatrick @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Shawn Kirkpatrick ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:00:11PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote: > Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long > overdue I'd say. Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx, elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the find feature in those packages will do a find in the current page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to either. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Shawn Kirkpatrick ` Al Sten-Clanton ` Jude DaShiell ` Hart Larry ` Brian Buhrow 2 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Shawn Kirkpatrick @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having the ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search forward or reverse. It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the current document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the wanted section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate something specific in that section without moving around in it. It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get to information you really want. On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote: > On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:00:11PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote: >> Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long >> overdue I'd say. > > Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in > my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx, > elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that > list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a > feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the > find feature in those packages will do a find in the current > page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only > to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to either. > > Greg > > > -- > web site: http://www.gregn.net > gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc > skype: gregn1 > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) > If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. > > -- > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto ` Shawn Kirkpatrick @ ` Al Sten-Clanton ` Tom Fowle ` Jude DaShiell 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Al Sten-Clanton @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: shawn, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I'm inclined to agree, though I don't remember when I last used the feature. Al On 09/12/2016 08:08 PM, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote: > On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having > the ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search > forward or reverse. > It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the > current document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the > wanted section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate > something specific in that section without moving around in it. > It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get > to information you really want. > > On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote: > >> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:00:11PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote: >>> Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long >>> overdue I'd say. >> >> Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in >> my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx, >> elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that >> list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a >> feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the >> find feature in those packages will do a find in the current >> page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only >> to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use >> go-to either. >> >> Greg >> >> >> -- >> web site: http://www.gregn.net >> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc >> skype: gregn1 >> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) >> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your >> contacts. >> >> -- >> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto ` Al Sten-Clanton @ ` Tom Fowle 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Tom Fowle @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I've never found documentation on "goto" See no need for on screen find. However I would like "cursor routing" which wouldmove the system or application cursor to the last character spoken. It's probably harder than it would seem. tom Fowle On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:50:44PM -0400, Al Sten-Clanton wrote: > I'm inclined to agree, though I don't remember when I last used the > feature. > > Al > > On 09/12/2016 08:08 PM, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote: > >On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having > >the ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search > >forward or reverse. > >It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the > >current document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the > >wanted section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate > >something specific in that section without moving around in it. > >It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get > >to information you really want. > > > >On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote: > > > >>On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:00:11PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote: > >>>Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long > >>>overdue I'd say. > >> > >>Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in > >>my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx, > >>elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that > >>list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a > >>feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the > >>find feature in those packages will do a find in the current > >>page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only > >>to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use > >>go-to either. > >> > >>Greg > >> > >> > >>-- > >>web site: http://www.gregn.net > >>gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc > >>skype: gregn1 > >>(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) > >>If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your > >>contacts. > >> > >>-- > >>Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Speakup mailing list > >>Speakup@linux-speakup.org > >>http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >Speakup mailing list > >Speakup@linux-speakup.org > >http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto ` Shawn Kirkpatrick ` Al Sten-Clanton @ ` Jude DaShiell 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Jude DaShiell @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: shawn, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Does goto work in archlinux? If so, what is entered to position the cursor? On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote: > Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 20:08:11 > From: Shawn Kirkpatrick <shawn@shawnk.ca> > To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@linux-speakup.org> > Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto > > On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having the > ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search forward or > reverse. > It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the current > document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the wanted > section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate something > specific in that section without moving around in it. > It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get to > information you really want. > > On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote: > >> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:00:11PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote: >>> Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long >>> overdue I'd say. >> >> Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in >> my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx, >> elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that >> list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a >> feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the >> find feature in those packages will do a find in the current >> page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only >> to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to > either. >> >> Greg >> >> >> -- >> web site: http://www.gregn.net >> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc >> skype: gregn1 >> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) >> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your > contacts. >> >> -- >> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto ` Gregory Nowak ` Shawn Kirkpatrick @ ` Hart Larry ` Brian Buhrow 2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Hart Larry @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Actually Greg, certainly I agree L Y N X for one will find a place on a site if there is a link, but if its just text, whether its L Y N X or less an exact place is not highlighting. In a case of "less" the chosen work is on line2, so I must hit and hold down numpad7 until the top. In an editor such as NANO it highlights exactly what I want. Take care Hart ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto ` Gregory Nowak ` Shawn Kirkpatrick ` Hart Larry @ ` Brian Buhrow ` Kirk Reiser 2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Brian Buhrow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.; +Cc: buhrow hello. I'm not so much of a speakup user, but every text based screen reader I've used, I'm currently writing on this with a machine running Yasr, has a review mode. In review mode, the find function is invaluable in finding a specific area of the screen. If you have a screen full of text, and you want to know on which line a specific string of text appears, the find function can save you a lot of time in that it saves you from having to read each line of the screen to find the thing you're looking for. Similarly, the go to function is very helpful if you know how an application formats a screen layout. Then, if you want to read a specific line of text, you can jump directly to that line without having to arrow around from line to line. My mail program, for example, begins the display of a message on the third line of my screen. So, when I want to jump to the start of a message screen, I jump directly to the 3rd line of the screen, and skip having to read the status line and any other data above the specific lines I want. Honestly, I'm shocked that so many on this list think these functions are vestigial. Perhaps I'm missing something that's special about Speakup and the need to use these functions, but I can't think of any configuration of a screen reader that would obviate the need for these two functions. Yes, lynx, vi, more, etc. have find functions, but they don't necessarily let you locate the specific region of the screen where the text you're looking for is located. And how you can function efficiently without that knowledge, or the ability to get it after a couple of keystrokes, is, quite frankly, baffling to me. -Brian On Sep 12, 4:23pm, Gregory Nowak wrote: } Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto } T24gU3VuLCBTZXAgMTEsIDIwMTYgYXQgMTE6MDA6MTFQTSAtMDcwMCwgU2hhd24gS2lya3BhdHJp } Y2sgd3JvdGU6Cj4gRG9lcyBzcGVha3VwIHJlYWxseSBub3QgaGF2ZSBhbiBvbi1zY3JlZW4gZmlu } ZD8gVGhhdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBsb25nCj4gb3ZlcmR1ZSBJJ2Qgc2F5LgoKU3BlYWt1cCBkb2Vzbid0 } IGhhdmUgYW4gb24tc2NyZWVuIGZpbmQgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBpc24ndCBuZWNlc3NhcnkgaW4KbXkg } bm90IHNvIGh1bWJsZSBvcGluaW9uLiBTdWNoIGEgZmVhdHVyZSBhbHJlYWR5IGV4aXN0cyBpbiBs } eW54LAplbGlua3MsIHZpLCBlbWFjcywgbGVzcywgYW5kIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBhbG1vc3QgY2VydGFp } bmx5IG1vcmUgZnJvbSB0aGF0Cmxpc3QgdGhhdCBJIGNhbid0IHRoaW5rIG9mIG9mZiB0aGUgdG9w } IG9mIG15IGhlYWQuIFdoeSBkdXBsaWNhdGUgYQpmZWF0dXJlIGluIHNwZWFrdXAgd2hpY2ggYWxy } ZWFkeSBleGlzdHMgaW4gdmFyaW91cyBwYWNrYWdlcz8gQWxzbywgdGhlCmZpbmQgZmVhdHVyZSBp } biB0aG9zZSBwYWNrYWdlcyB3aWxsIGRvIGEgZmluZCBpbiB0aGUgY3VycmVudApwYWdlL2RvY3Vt } ZW50LCB3aGVyZWFzIGEgc3BlYWt1cCBmaW5kIGZlYXR1cmUgd291bGQgYmUgbGltaXRlZCBvbmx5 } CnRvIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHNjcmVlbiBjb250ZW50cy4gSnVzdCBteSAkMC4wMS4gT2ggeWVzLCBJ } IGRvbid0IHVzZSBnby10byBlaXRoZXIuCgpHcmVnCgoKLS0gCndlYiBzaXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3 } LmdyZWduLm5ldApncGcgcHVibGljIGtleTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ncmVnbi5uZXQvcHVia2V5LmFz } Ywpza3lwZTogZ3JlZ24xCihhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHJlcXVpcmVkLCBhZGQgbWUgdG8geW91ciBj } b250YWN0cyBsaXN0IGZpcnN0KQpJZiB3ZSBoYXZlbid0IGJlZW4gaW4gdG91Y2ggYmVmb3JlLCBl } LW1haWwgbWUgYmVmb3JlIGFkZGluZyBtZSB0byB5b3VyIGNvbnRhY3RzLgoKLS0KRnJlZSBkb21h } aW5zOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV1Lm9yZy8gb3IgbWFpbCBkbnMtbWFuYWdlckBFVS5vcmcKX19fX19f } X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KU3BlYWt1cCBtYWlsaW5n } IGxpc3QKU3BlYWt1cEBsaW51eC1zcGVha3VwLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vbGludXgtc3BlYWt1cC5vcmcv } Y2dpLWJpbi9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3NwZWFrdXAK >-- End of excerpt from Gregory Nowak ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto ` Brian Buhrow @ ` Kirk Reiser ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Kirk Reiser @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.; +Cc: buhrow It has amazed me over the years how many different ways users find to use speakup or any screen reader. Certainly many of the functions I originally wrote are used differently than I intended when I first wrote them. Many of the features other folks have included in speakup over the years I have come to depend on as well such as the keyboard active volume, pitch, and speed and windowing that Dave added. My intension was never to mimic what other screen readers did other than the keyboard review keys based on ASAP which I used at the time I wrote speakup and therefore was comfortable with. Over the years there have been features I thought would be useful to have for convenience like on screen find and reading cursor routing to the end of the current word which I've been tempted to add for years but never seem to get around to. I do use the goto function quite a bit and so would probably be sad to see it go away but like I said everybody uses speakup differently. I don't see the justification for removing it because placing the review cursor at a specific point on the screen will be needed for on screen find or active cursor routing so something else will need to be added to replace goto's basic functioning. I wouldn't argue it may need to be rewritten to make it more efficient but removing it doesn't make any sense to me. I mean if one was to point out features that never get used how many people even know the xnum facility exist or know how to use it? You can place a reading cursor at any point on the screen and 'park' it there if you need quick access to any one spot. You can set up a window to silence a portion of the screen which is to verbose that you'd like to not hear constantly updating. Most of these features are documented in the speakup users manual so regular users of speakup should be aware of them. Certainly the are useful additions that can be made but as with anything people that modify and enhance a program typically make changes that meet their personal needs rather than the general community. There's my nickle-98's worth of opinion. Kirk On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Brian Buhrow wrote: > hello. I'm not so much of a speakup user, but every text based screen > reader I've used, I'm currently writing on this with a machine running > Yasr, has a review mode. In review mode, the find function is invaluable > in finding a specific area of the screen. If you have a screen full of > text, and you want to know on which line a specific string of text appears, > the find function can save you a lot of time in that it saves you from > having to read each line of the screen to find the thing you're looking > for. > Similarly, the go to function is very helpful if you know how an > application formats a screen layout. Then, if you want to read a specific > line of text, you can jump directly to that line without having to arrow > around from line to line. My mail program, for example, begins the display > of a message on the third line of my screen. So, when I want to jump to > the start of a message screen, I jump directly to the 3rd line of the > screen, and skip having to read the status line and any other data above > the specific lines I want. > Honestly, I'm shocked that so many on this list think these functions > are vestigial. Perhaps I'm missing something that's special about Speakup > and the need to use these functions, but I can't think of any configuration > of a screen reader that would obviate the need for these two functions. > Yes, lynx, vi, more, etc. have find functions, but they don't necessarily > let you locate the specific region of the screen where the text you're > looking for is located. And how you can function efficiently without that > knowledge, or the ability to get it after a couple of keystrokes, is, quite > frankly, baffling to me. > > -Brian > > On Sep 12, 4:23pm, Gregory Nowak wrote: > } Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto > } T24gU3VuLCBTZXAgMTEsIDIwMTYgYXQgMTE6MDA6MTFQTSAtMDcwMCwgU2hhd24gS2lya3BhdHJp > } Y2sgd3JvdGU6Cj4gRG9lcyBzcGVha3VwIHJlYWxseSBub3QgaGF2ZSBhbiBvbi1zY3JlZW4gZmlu > } ZD8gVGhhdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBsb25nCj4gb3ZlcmR1ZSBJJ2Qgc2F5LgoKU3BlYWt1cCBkb2Vzbid0 > } IGhhdmUgYW4gb24tc2NyZWVuIGZpbmQgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBpc24ndCBuZWNlc3NhcnkgaW4KbXkg > } bm90IHNvIGh1bWJsZSBvcGluaW9uLiBTdWNoIGEgZmVhdHVyZSBhbHJlYWR5IGV4aXN0cyBpbiBs > } eW54LAplbGlua3MsIHZpLCBlbWFjcywgbGVzcywgYW5kIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBhbG1vc3QgY2VydGFp > } bmx5IG1vcmUgZnJvbSB0aGF0Cmxpc3QgdGhhdCBJIGNhbid0IHRoaW5rIG9mIG9mZiB0aGUgdG9w > } IG9mIG15IGhlYWQuIFdoeSBkdXBsaWNhdGUgYQpmZWF0dXJlIGluIHNwZWFrdXAgd2hpY2ggYWxy > } ZWFkeSBleGlzdHMgaW4gdmFyaW91cyBwYWNrYWdlcz8gQWxzbywgdGhlCmZpbmQgZmVhdHVyZSBp > } biB0aG9zZSBwYWNrYWdlcyB3aWxsIGRvIGEgZmluZCBpbiB0aGUgY3VycmVudApwYWdlL2RvY3Vt > } ZW50LCB3aGVyZWFzIGEgc3BlYWt1cCBmaW5kIGZlYXR1cmUgd291bGQgYmUgbGltaXRlZCBvbmx5 > } CnRvIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHNjcmVlbiBjb250ZW50cy4gSnVzdCBteSAkMC4wMS4gT2ggeWVzLCBJ > } IGRvbid0IHVzZSBnby10byBlaXRoZXIuCgpHcmVnCgoKLS0gCndlYiBzaXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3 > } LmdyZWduLm5ldApncGcgcHVibGljIGtleTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ncmVnbi5uZXQvcHVia2V5LmFz > } Ywpza3lwZTogZ3JlZ24xCihhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHJlcXVpcmVkLCBhZGQgbWUgdG8geW91ciBj > } b250YWN0cyBsaXN0IGZpcnN0KQpJZiB3ZSBoYXZlbid0IGJlZW4gaW4gdG91Y2ggYmVmb3JlLCBl > } LW1haWwgbWUgYmVmb3JlIGFkZGluZyBtZSB0byB5b3VyIGNvbnRhY3RzLgoKLS0KRnJlZSBkb21h > } aW5zOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV1Lm9yZy8gb3IgbWFpbCBkbnMtbWFuYWdlckBFVS5vcmcKX19fX19f > } X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KU3BlYWt1cCBtYWlsaW5n > } IGxpc3QKU3BlYWt1cEBsaW51eC1zcGVha3VwLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vbGludXgtc3BlYWt1cC5vcmcv > } Y2dpLWJpbi9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3NwZWFrdXAK >> -- End of excerpt from Gregory Nowak > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Well that's it then, colour me secure! -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v1 mQENBFYV5DMBCAC060mbsnLhGPjnFkf0R0p+7MxcfxlOuy5wc8y59y9ZNF0RZD1s OTEsDih4vD9YJ3zA78VsBUDK47aiDWduh3nHzYN2ZSuxAQ9u7qPqphCG0jPagTU8 p7+Ceeya4I5odWtq+Nkf1UrHB7KKEtexphStSwUG5Bhi4bb84YinmX/a3I+OGV1D by4QBSdPvSuDw0qFkt/ucLyEwv4L6lDjoH2GF+tnCew4SJtliJFvA1k7NpWO6HW9 aWtBxfYU85ccZKBSE25y+9KprUCncVTpaVs3FztCWG0dQRXHvEbV+Damp/IBd9Jv HZX7azqbERUa/FjPTIlZhhI9VtaZaFfJSH+5ABEBAAG0HUtpcmsgUmVpc2VyIDxr aXJrQHJlaXNlcnMuY2E+iQE+BBMBAgAoBQJWFeQzAhsDBQkADS8ABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRAHTEsk7UQUUoeuB/wIqsdLCfDrSvr3qg7rKBDg ru44OMuRit6hbdWFZjmxccCdjeNhBJRVd5wrEqjj5YoqQAhmacXaEB0DO/TZlDgo kUfJM7lrtQD4mYU9GVtrzJxCJoBUyeMVnMJt39F91tBu0mYM6oI/dv81dwxIv++4 hj55TZ4GG7DGYAy4LwNb+noNbivgOFHlnfNq8nxhZkHbJdYKP+sptZOL5sagmBQZ iS9STB54g/U7Jtt1Fe+JwDmbxQhbSHa9JuWn0xZ8CtYhrz06xSqZl5vpMlak3eW2 x6m6IcqZfyuI2K7W/9BCgcsQyYzufO4Gk9KyPNISskX6pFBLuNxIH6hdfxSYYm9y uQENBFYV5DMBCACtMyhHog5MR6eQUPTx7fWH5ntkgCtmWvQp4lcKj0HHbteDWglS NVbWKWEk9PAKA4UeQVUH4vOhTRhAPpuDUavLdp2tDtT7ZBVh91B3AWIM6+7fIvyU 2uYt1q/CNjga8RllXBT7mW2zHGEYQFIkBJvqlU0PN1HlxRZIbSSEb+zQuVAd+ph3 kt/oZon3ZbNmKg+arsYMmKkYJ0REwKQib7h5Xl31aK74XmWBp2Ky+lopsJSP8wpH AfC71h4s3LDm8ADHF1Ns4KuGZdLTugr8uiPm5kEJFGes1uYKy8R7OTFko0NEuJkv STfpPYnTU2qDCJBH08zZErI/6YBIlSsCSde3ABEBAAGJASUEGAECAA8FAlYV5DMC GwwFCQANLwAACgkQB0xLJO1EFFKAmgf/d3dk1/HgmF8rmvYVru/hJvmIpmiLqPl5 bYSwdZeU+k82qp3xACM2yMJhOh89SgHsaaqQAE1qo5rAJcSG7/+7M/kzf4u/WM/E unXDtLkbzi5Zl+gjoikrfOhgF0NmuGdlrOme8a6ue7+iE4XLAo0/jhVlh45O6Iq0 0DGyeFr22cR3jZj4wRmPw5zj4r/sWc06UfquVAEMmfIvJMaGYvwBI+TU6gI8MjLe VDY0vay/nQ79fXSLQmYEvjwKXIavQu9c8TFt0z9EDdoIMx69ZunqZuYQInxaT+cL i9zhihMGz4XA1q3blLNX3I0jWzAa23ZchI7htc3kfxp1jWqrGyGEIg== =nrPH -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto ` Kirk Reiser @ ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.; +Cc: buhrow Hi, I want to chime in here in response to Kirk to simply say that I'm of the opinion Speakup is just about the best thing since sliced bread. That used to include the goto function for me. I used to use it alot. There were particular applications or web sites that I ran all the time. I came to know that the particular bit of data I was after would be found on line X at column Y. A perfect setup for goto. I stopped using goto some time ago when the feature started crashing Fedora. I believe I reported that, but not much happened, so I simply forgot about goto. So, if it's a viable option again, count me in. I suppose, now that I'm sitting on an Arch machine, not a Fedora kernel build, I should try goto again? When I'm able to sustain a hit? Or anytime because the water is warm and inviting? Janina Kirk Reiser writes: > It has amazed me over the years how many different ways users find to > use speakup or any screen reader. Certainly many of the functions I > originally wrote are used differently than I intended when I first > wrote them. Many of the features other folks have included in speakup > over the years I have come to depend on as well such as the keyboard > active volume, pitch, and speed and windowing that Dave added. My > intension was never to mimic what other screen readers did other than > the keyboard review keys based on ASAP which I used at the time I > wrote speakup and therefore was comfortable with. Over the years there > have been features I thought would be useful to have for convenience > like on screen find and reading cursor routing to the end of the > current word which I've been tempted to add for years but never seem > to get around to. > > I do use the goto function quite a bit and so would probably be sad to > see it go away but like I said everybody uses speakup differently. I > don't see the justification for removing it because placing the review > cursor at a specific point on the screen will be needed for on screen > find or active cursor routing so something else will need to be added > to replace goto's basic functioning. I wouldn't argue it may need to > be rewritten to make it more efficient but removing it doesn't make > any sense to me. I mean if one was to point out features that never > get used how many people even know the xnum facility exist or know how > to use it? > > You can place a reading cursor at any point on the screen and 'park' > it there if you need quick access to any one spot. You can set up a > window to silence a portion of the screen which is to verbose that > you'd like to not hear constantly updating. Most of these features are > documented in the speakup users manual so regular users of speakup > should be aware of them. Certainly the are useful additions that can > be made but as with anything people that modify and enhance a program > typically make changes that meet their personal needs rather than the > general community. > > There's my nickle-98's worth of opinion. > > Kirk > > On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Brian Buhrow wrote: > > > hello. I'm not so much of a speakup user, but every text based screen > > reader I've used, I'm currently writing on this with a machine running > > Yasr, has a review mode. In review mode, the find function is invaluable > > in finding a specific area of the screen. If you have a screen full of > > text, and you want to know on which line a specific string of text appears, > > the find function can save you a lot of time in that it saves you from > > having to read each line of the screen to find the thing you're looking > > for. > > Similarly, the go to function is very helpful if you know how an > > application formats a screen layout. Then, if you want to read a specific > > line of text, you can jump directly to that line without having to arrow > > around from line to line. My mail program, for example, begins the display > > of a message on the third line of my screen. So, when I want to jump to > > the start of a message screen, I jump directly to the 3rd line of the > > screen, and skip having to read the status line and any other data above > > the specific lines I want. > > Honestly, I'm shocked that so many on this list think these functions > > are vestigial. Perhaps I'm missing something that's special about Speakup > > and the need to use these functions, but I can't think of any configuration > > of a screen reader that would obviate the need for these two functions. > > Yes, lynx, vi, more, etc. have find functions, but they don't necessarily > > let you locate the specific region of the screen where the text you're > > looking for is located. And how you can function efficiently without that > > knowledge, or the ability to get it after a couple of keystrokes, is, quite > > frankly, baffling to me. > > > > -Brian > > > > On Sep 12, 4:23pm, Gregory Nowak wrote: > > } Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto > > } T24gU3VuLCBTZXAgMTEsIDIwMTYgYXQgMTE6MDA6MTFQTSAtMDcwMCwgU2hhd24gS2lya3BhdHJp > > } Y2sgd3JvdGU6Cj4gRG9lcyBzcGVha3VwIHJlYWxseSBub3QgaGF2ZSBhbiBvbi1zY3JlZW4gZmlu > > } ZD8gVGhhdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBsb25nCj4gb3ZlcmR1ZSBJJ2Qgc2F5LgoKU3BlYWt1cCBkb2Vzbid0 > > } IGhhdmUgYW4gb24tc2NyZWVuIGZpbmQgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBpc24ndCBuZWNlc3NhcnkgaW4KbXkg > > } bm90IHNvIGh1bWJsZSBvcGluaW9uLiBTdWNoIGEgZmVhdHVyZSBhbHJlYWR5IGV4aXN0cyBpbiBs > > } eW54LAplbGlua3MsIHZpLCBlbWFjcywgbGVzcywgYW5kIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBhbG1vc3QgY2VydGFp > > } bmx5IG1vcmUgZnJvbSB0aGF0Cmxpc3QgdGhhdCBJIGNhbid0IHRoaW5rIG9mIG9mZiB0aGUgdG9w > > } IG9mIG15IGhlYWQuIFdoeSBkdXBsaWNhdGUgYQpmZWF0dXJlIGluIHNwZWFrdXAgd2hpY2ggYWxy > > } ZWFkeSBleGlzdHMgaW4gdmFyaW91cyBwYWNrYWdlcz8gQWxzbywgdGhlCmZpbmQgZmVhdHVyZSBp > > } biB0aG9zZSBwYWNrYWdlcyB3aWxsIGRvIGEgZmluZCBpbiB0aGUgY3VycmVudApwYWdlL2RvY3Vt > > } ZW50LCB3aGVyZWFzIGEgc3BlYWt1cCBmaW5kIGZlYXR1cmUgd291bGQgYmUgbGltaXRlZCBvbmx5 > > } CnRvIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHNjcmVlbiBjb250ZW50cy4gSnVzdCBteSAkMC4wMS4gT2ggeWVzLCBJ > > } IGRvbid0IHVzZSBnby10byBlaXRoZXIuCgpHcmVnCgoKLS0gCndlYiBzaXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3 > > } LmdyZWduLm5ldApncGcgcHVibGljIGtleTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ncmVnbi5uZXQvcHVia2V5LmFz > > } Ywpza3lwZTogZ3JlZ24xCihhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHJlcXVpcmVkLCBhZGQgbWUgdG8geW91ciBj > > } b250YWN0cyBsaXN0IGZpcnN0KQpJZiB3ZSBoYXZlbid0IGJlZW4gaW4gdG91Y2ggYmVmb3JlLCBl > > } LW1haWwgbWUgYmVmb3JlIGFkZGluZyBtZSB0byB5b3VyIGNvbnRhY3RzLgoKLS0KRnJlZSBkb21h > > } aW5zOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV1Lm9yZy8gb3IgbWFpbCBkbnMtbWFuYWdlckBFVS5vcmcKX19fX19f > > } X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KU3BlYWt1cCBtYWlsaW5n > > } IGxpc3QKU3BlYWt1cEBsaW51eC1zcGVha3VwLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vbGludXgtc3BlYWt1cC5vcmcv > > } Y2dpLWJpbi9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3NwZWFrdXAK > > > -- End of excerpt from Gregory Nowak > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > -- > Well that's it then, colour me secure! > > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > Version: GnuPG v1 > > mQENBFYV5DMBCAC060mbsnLhGPjnFkf0R0p+7MxcfxlOuy5wc8y59y9ZNF0RZD1s > OTEsDih4vD9YJ3zA78VsBUDK47aiDWduh3nHzYN2ZSuxAQ9u7qPqphCG0jPagTU8 > p7+Ceeya4I5odWtq+Nkf1UrHB7KKEtexphStSwUG5Bhi4bb84YinmX/a3I+OGV1D > by4QBSdPvSuDw0qFkt/ucLyEwv4L6lDjoH2GF+tnCew4SJtliJFvA1k7NpWO6HW9 > aWtBxfYU85ccZKBSE25y+9KprUCncVTpaVs3FztCWG0dQRXHvEbV+Damp/IBd9Jv > HZX7azqbERUa/FjPTIlZhhI9VtaZaFfJSH+5ABEBAAG0HUtpcmsgUmVpc2VyIDxr > aXJrQHJlaXNlcnMuY2E+iQE+BBMBAgAoBQJWFeQzAhsDBQkADS8ABgsJCAcDAgYV > CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRAHTEsk7UQUUoeuB/wIqsdLCfDrSvr3qg7rKBDg > ru44OMuRit6hbdWFZjmxccCdjeNhBJRVd5wrEqjj5YoqQAhmacXaEB0DO/TZlDgo > kUfJM7lrtQD4mYU9GVtrzJxCJoBUyeMVnMJt39F91tBu0mYM6oI/dv81dwxIv++4 > hj55TZ4GG7DGYAy4LwNb+noNbivgOFHlnfNq8nxhZkHbJdYKP+sptZOL5sagmBQZ > iS9STB54g/U7Jtt1Fe+JwDmbxQhbSHa9JuWn0xZ8CtYhrz06xSqZl5vpMlak3eW2 > x6m6IcqZfyuI2K7W/9BCgcsQyYzufO4Gk9KyPNISskX6pFBLuNxIH6hdfxSYYm9y > uQENBFYV5DMBCACtMyhHog5MR6eQUPTx7fWH5ntkgCtmWvQp4lcKj0HHbteDWglS > NVbWKWEk9PAKA4UeQVUH4vOhTRhAPpuDUavLdp2tDtT7ZBVh91B3AWIM6+7fIvyU > 2uYt1q/CNjga8RllXBT7mW2zHGEYQFIkBJvqlU0PN1HlxRZIbSSEb+zQuVAd+ph3 > kt/oZon3ZbNmKg+arsYMmKkYJ0REwKQib7h5Xl31aK74XmWBp2Ky+lopsJSP8wpH > AfC71h4s3LDm8ADHF1Ns4KuGZdLTugr8uiPm5kEJFGes1uYKy8R7OTFko0NEuJkv > STfpPYnTU2qDCJBH08zZErI/6YBIlSsCSde3ABEBAAGJASUEGAECAA8FAlYV5DMC > GwwFCQANLwAACgkQB0xLJO1EFFKAmgf/d3dk1/HgmF8rmvYVru/hJvmIpmiLqPl5 > bYSwdZeU+k82qp3xACM2yMJhOh89SgHsaaqQAE1qo5rAJcSG7/+7M/kzf4u/WM/E > unXDtLkbzi5Zl+gjoikrfOhgF0NmuGdlrOme8a6ue7+iE4XLAo0/jhVlh45O6Iq0 > 0DGyeFr22cR3jZj4wRmPw5zj4r/sWc06UfquVAEMmfIvJMaGYvwBI+TU6gI8MjLe > VDY0vay/nQ79fXSLQmYEvjwKXIavQu9c8TFt0z9EDdoIMx69ZunqZuYQInxaT+cL > i9zhihMGz4XA1q3blLNX3I0jWzAa23ZchI7htc3kfxp1jWqrGyGEIg== > =nrPH > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net Email: janina@rednote.net Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
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bleeps and does anyone use goto David
` Zachary Kline
` Chuck Hallenbeck
` Willem van der Walt
` Shawn Kirkpatrick
` Gregory Nowak
` Shawn Kirkpatrick
` Al Sten-Clanton
` Tom Fowle
` Jude DaShiell
` Hart Larry
` Brian Buhrow
` Kirk Reiser
` Janina Sajka
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