bleeps and does anyone use goto

bleeps and does anyone use goto

[David]

Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
feature. two features I would like to add are:
collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.

Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Zachary Kline]

I definitely don't, it's poorly implemented, in my experience. I'd much rather see on screen find.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2016, at 3:20 PM, David <david.a.borowski@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
> I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
> Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
> feature. two features I would like to add are:
> collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8, Size: 732 bytes --]

David,

Agreed. Drop goto. After 15 years of using speakup, I have not once gone to.

Chuck

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 06:20:09PM -0400, David wrote:
> Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
> I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
> Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
> feature. two features I would like to add are:
> collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
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   Temperature 68°F
   Conditions Clear
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (74% of Full)

Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Willem van der Walt]

Hi,
I use goto, but it is to find a spot on the screen, so if there is such a 
feature, I will not  miss goto.
HTH, Willem


On Sun, 11 Sep 2016, David wrote:

> Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
> I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
> Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
> feature. two features I would like to add are:
> collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Shawn Kirkpatrick]

I would use goto but in my kernel this doesn't work propperly at all. I'm on 
a slightly older kernel version so maybe this has been fixed in a later 
version.
What I'd like to have is the ability to map going to a specific line to a 
key. I'm thinking of imitating the review mode feature in the old artic 
vision program where pressing a through y takes you to the given line, a for 
line 1, b for line 2, etc. Not having this feature has kept me from using 
speakup for any serious work. Having the ability to move quickly to a given 
point is a must for me.
Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long overdue 
I'd say.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016, David wrote:

> Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
> I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
> Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
> feature. two features I would like to add are:
> collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:00:11PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote:
> Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long
> overdue I'd say.

Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in
my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx,
elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that
list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a
feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the
find feature in those packages will do a find in the current
page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only
to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to either.

Greg


-- 
web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.

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Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Shawn Kirkpatrick]

On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having the 
ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search forward or 
reverse.
It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the current 
document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the wanted 
section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate something 
specific in that section without moving around in it.
It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get to 
information you really want.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:00:11PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote:
>> Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long
>> overdue I'd say.
>
> Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in
> my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx,
> elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that
> list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a
> feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the
> find feature in those packages will do a find in the current
> page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only
> to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to either.
>
> Greg
>
>
> -- 
> web site: http://www.gregn.net
> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
>
> --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Hart Larry]

Actually Greg, certainly I agree L Y N X for one will find a place on a site if 
there is a link, but if its just text, whether its L Y N X or less an exact 
place is not highlighting. In  a case of "less" the chosen work is on line2, so 
I must hit and hold down numpad7 until the top. In an editor such as NANO it 
highlights exactly what I want. Take care
Hart

Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Al Sten-Clanton]

I'm inclined to agree, though I don't remember when I last used the 
feature.

Al

On 09/12/2016 08:08 PM, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote:
> On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having
> the ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search
> forward or reverse.
> It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the
> current document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the
> wanted section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate
> something specific in that section without moving around in it.
> It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get
> to information you really want.
>
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:00:11PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote:
>>> Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long
>>> overdue I'd say.
>>
>> Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in
>> my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx,
>> elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that
>> list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a
>> feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the
>> find feature in those packages will do a find in the current
>> page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only
>> to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use
>> go-to either.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> --
>> web site: http://www.gregn.net
>> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
>> skype: gregn1
>> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your
>> contacts.
>>
>> --
>> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Tom Fowle]

I've never found documentation on "goto"
See no need for on screen find.

However I would like "cursor routing" which wouldmove the system or
application cursor to the last character spoken.
It's probably harder than it would seem.
tom Fowle

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:50:44PM -0400, Al Sten-Clanton wrote:
> I'm inclined to agree, though I don't remember when I last used the
> feature.
> 
> Al
> 
> On 09/12/2016 08:08 PM, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote:
> >On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having
> >the ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search
> >forward or reverse.
> >It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the
> >current document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the
> >wanted section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate
> >something specific in that section without moving around in it.
> >It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get
> >to information you really want.
> >
> >On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> >>On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:00:11PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote:
> >>>Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long
> >>>overdue I'd say.
> >>
> >>Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in
> >>my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx,
> >>elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that
> >>list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a
> >>feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the
> >>find feature in those packages will do a find in the current
> >>page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only
> >>to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use
> >>go-to either.
> >>
> >>Greg
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>web site: http://www.gregn.net
> >>gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> >>skype: gregn1
> >>(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> >>If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your
> >>contacts.
> >>
> >>--
> >>Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Speakup mailing list
> >>Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> >>http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> >http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Brian Buhrow]

	hello.  I'm not so much of a speakup user, but every text based screen
reader I've used, I'm currently writing on this with a machine running
Yasr, has a review mode.  In review mode, the find function is invaluable
in finding a specific area of the screen.  If you have a screen full of
text, and you want to know on which line a specific string of text appears,
the find function can save you a lot of time in that it saves you from
having to read each line of the screen to find the thing you're looking
for.
	Similarly, the go to function is very helpful if you know how an
application formats a screen layout.  Then, if you want to read a specific
line of text, you can jump directly to that line without having to arrow
around from line to line.  My mail program, for example, begins the display
of a message on the third line of my screen.  So, when I want to jump to
the start of a message screen, I jump directly to the 3rd line of the
screen, and skip having to read the status line and any other data above
the specific lines I want.  
	Honestly, I'm shocked that so many on this list think these functions
are vestigial.  Perhaps I'm missing something that's special about Speakup
and the need to use these functions, but I can't think of any configuration
of a screen reader that would obviate the need for these two functions.
Yes, lynx, vi, more, etc. have find functions, but they don't necessarily
let you locate the specific region of the screen where the text you're
looking for is located.  And how you can function efficiently without that
knowledge, or the ability to get it after a couple of keystrokes, is, quite
frankly, baffling to me.

-Brian

On Sep 12,  4:23pm, Gregory Nowak wrote:
} Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto
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>-- End of excerpt from Gregory Nowak

Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Kirk Reiser]

It has amazed me over the years how many different ways users find to
use speakup or any screen reader. Certainly many of the functions I
originally wrote are used differently than I intended when I first
wrote them. Many of the features other folks have included in speakup
over the years I have come to depend on as well such as the keyboard
active volume, pitch, and speed and windowing that Dave added. My
intension was never to mimic what other screen readers did other than
the keyboard review keys based on ASAP which I used at the time I
wrote speakup and therefore was comfortable with. Over the years there
have been features I thought would be useful to have for convenience
like on screen find and reading cursor routing to the end of the
current word which I've been tempted to add for years but never seem
to get around to.

I do use the goto function quite a bit and so would probably be sad to
see it go away but like I said everybody uses speakup differently. I
don't see the justification for removing it because placing the review
cursor at a specific point on the screen will be needed for on screen
find or active cursor routing so something else will need to be added
to replace goto's basic functioning. I wouldn't argue it may need to
be rewritten to make it more efficient but removing it doesn't make
any sense to me. I mean if one was to point out features that never
get used how many people even know the xnum facility exist or know how
to use it?

You can place a reading cursor at any point on the screen and 'park'
it there if you need quick access to any one spot. You can set up a
window to silence a portion of the screen which is to verbose that
you'd like to not hear constantly updating. Most of these features are
documented in the speakup users manual so regular users of speakup
should be aware of them. Certainly the are useful additions that can
be made but as with anything people that modify and enhance a program
typically make changes that meet their personal needs rather than the
general community.

There's my nickle-98's worth of opinion.

   Kirk

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Brian Buhrow wrote:

> 	hello.  I'm not so much of a speakup user, but every text based screen
> reader I've used, I'm currently writing on this with a machine running
> Yasr, has a review mode.  In review mode, the find function is invaluable
> in finding a specific area of the screen.  If you have a screen full of
> text, and you want to know on which line a specific string of text appears,
> the find function can save you a lot of time in that it saves you from
> having to read each line of the screen to find the thing you're looking
> for.
> 	Similarly, the go to function is very helpful if you know how an
> application formats a screen layout.  Then, if you want to read a specific
> line of text, you can jump directly to that line without having to arrow
> around from line to line.  My mail program, for example, begins the display
> of a message on the third line of my screen.  So, when I want to jump to
> the start of a message screen, I jump directly to the 3rd line of the
> screen, and skip having to read the status line and any other data above
> the specific lines I want.
> 	Honestly, I'm shocked that so many on this list think these functions
> are vestigial.  Perhaps I'm missing something that's special about Speakup
> and the need to use these functions, but I can't think of any configuration
> of a screen reader that would obviate the need for these two functions.
> Yes, lynx, vi, more, etc. have find functions, but they don't necessarily
> let you locate the specific region of the screen where the text you're
> looking for is located.  And how you can function efficiently without that
> knowledge, or the ability to get it after a couple of keystrokes, is, quite
> frankly, baffling to me.
>
> -Brian
>
> On Sep 12,  4:23pm, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> } Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto
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>> -- End of excerpt from Gregory Nowak
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Well that's it then, colour me secure!

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Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Janina Sajka]

Hi,

I want to chime in here in response to Kirk to simply say that I'm of
the opinion Speakup is just about the best thing since sliced bread.

That used to include the goto function for me. I used to use it alot.
There were particular applications or web sites that I ran all the time.
I came to know that the particular bit of data I was after would be
found on line X at column Y. A perfect setup for goto.

I stopped using goto some time ago when the feature started crashing
Fedora. I believe I reported that, but not much happened, so I simply
forgot about goto.

So, if it's a viable option again, count me in. I suppose, now that I'm
sitting on an Arch machine, not a Fedora kernel build, I should try goto
again? When I'm able to sustain a hit? Or anytime because the water is
warm and inviting?

Janina

Kirk Reiser writes:
> It has amazed me over the years how many different ways users find to
> use speakup or any screen reader. Certainly many of the functions I
> originally wrote are used differently than I intended when I first
> wrote them. Many of the features other folks have included in speakup
> over the years I have come to depend on as well such as the keyboard
> active volume, pitch, and speed and windowing that Dave added. My
> intension was never to mimic what other screen readers did other than
> the keyboard review keys based on ASAP which I used at the time I
> wrote speakup and therefore was comfortable with. Over the years there
> have been features I thought would be useful to have for convenience
> like on screen find and reading cursor routing to the end of the
> current word which I've been tempted to add for years but never seem
> to get around to.
> 
> I do use the goto function quite a bit and so would probably be sad to
> see it go away but like I said everybody uses speakup differently. I
> don't see the justification for removing it because placing the review
> cursor at a specific point on the screen will be needed for on screen
> find or active cursor routing so something else will need to be added
> to replace goto's basic functioning. I wouldn't argue it may need to
> be rewritten to make it more efficient but removing it doesn't make
> any sense to me. I mean if one was to point out features that never
> get used how many people even know the xnum facility exist or know how
> to use it?
> 
> You can place a reading cursor at any point on the screen and 'park'
> it there if you need quick access to any one spot. You can set up a
> window to silence a portion of the screen which is to verbose that
> you'd like to not hear constantly updating. Most of these features are
> documented in the speakup users manual so regular users of speakup
> should be aware of them. Certainly the are useful additions that can
> be made but as with anything people that modify and enhance a program
> typically make changes that meet their personal needs rather than the
> general community.
> 
> There's my nickle-98's worth of opinion.
> 
>   Kirk
> 
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Brian Buhrow wrote:
> 
> > 	hello.  I'm not so much of a speakup user, but every text based screen
> > reader I've used, I'm currently writing on this with a machine running
> > Yasr, has a review mode.  In review mode, the find function is invaluable
> > in finding a specific area of the screen.  If you have a screen full of
> > text, and you want to know on which line a specific string of text appears,
> > the find function can save you a lot of time in that it saves you from
> > having to read each line of the screen to find the thing you're looking
> > for.
> > 	Similarly, the go to function is very helpful if you know how an
> > application formats a screen layout.  Then, if you want to read a specific
> > line of text, you can jump directly to that line without having to arrow
> > around from line to line.  My mail program, for example, begins the display
> > of a message on the third line of my screen.  So, when I want to jump to
> > the start of a message screen, I jump directly to the 3rd line of the
> > screen, and skip having to read the status line and any other data above
> > the specific lines I want.
> > 	Honestly, I'm shocked that so many on this list think these functions
> > are vestigial.  Perhaps I'm missing something that's special about Speakup
> > and the need to use these functions, but I can't think of any configuration
> > of a screen reader that would obviate the need for these two functions.
> > Yes, lynx, vi, more, etc. have find functions, but they don't necessarily
> > let you locate the specific region of the screen where the text you're
> > looking for is located.  And how you can function efficiently without that
> > knowledge, or the ability to get it after a couple of keystrokes, is, quite
> > frankly, baffling to me.
> > 
> > -Brian
> > 
> > On Sep 12,  4:23pm, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > } Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto
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> > > -- End of excerpt from Gregory Nowak
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> Well that's it then, colour me secure!
> 
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> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto

[Jude DaShiell]

Does goto work in archlinux?  If so, what is entered to position the 
cursor? On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote:

> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 20:08:11
> From: Shawn Kirkpatrick <shawn@shawnk.ca>
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto
> 
> On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having the 
> ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search forward or 
> reverse.
> It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the current 
> document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the wanted 
> section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate something 
> specific in that section without moving around in it.
> It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get to 
> information you really want.
>
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:00:11PM -0700, Shawn Kirkpatrick wrote:
>>> Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long
>>> overdue I'd say.
>>
>> Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in
>> my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx,
>> elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that
>> list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a
>> feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the
>> find feature in those packages will do a find in the current
>> page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only
>> to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to 
> either.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> web site: http://www.gregn.net
>> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
>> skype: gregn1
>> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your 
> contacts.
>>
>> --
>> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--