speechd-up debian install question

speechd-up debian install question

[Jude DaShiell]

does a boot parameter exist to use and install speechd-up rather than 
speakup-soft for debian installs of wheezy or squeeze?  Also would those 
be stock distros to install or an espeakup distro or some other distro to 
burn and install?

Jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
If I got a nickel for every message I've already sent supporting Microsoft
Windows and its applications I'd have enough to retire on comfortably no
matter what the stock market did.

Re: speechd-up debian install question

[covici]

Is someone maintaining speechd-up?  I looked on their site and I
couldn't even get the git version. 4.x does not with speech-dispatcher
7.x and it  would be nice to get this going.  I am using gentoo rather
than Debian.

Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net> wrote:

> does a boot parameter exist to use and install speechd-up rather than 
> speakup-soft for debian installs of wheezy or squeeze?  Also would those 
> be stock distros to install or an espeakup distro or some other distro to 
> burn and install?
> 
> Jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
> If I got a nickel for every message I've already sent supporting Microsoft
> Windows and its applications I'd have enough to retire on comfortably no
> matter what the stock market did.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: speechd-up debian install question

[Christopher Moore]

You can find the source on the Debian repository.

Chris

On 10/15/2011 7:55 AM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Is someone maintaining speechd-up?  I looked on their site and I
> couldn't even get the git version. 4.x does not with speech-dispatcher
> 7.x and it  would be nice to get this going.  I am using gentoo rather
> than Debian.
>
> Jude DaShiell<jdashiel@shellworld.net>  wrote:
>
>> does a boot parameter exist to use and install speechd-up rather than
>> speakup-soft for debian installs of wheezy or squeeze?  Also would those
>> be stock distros to install or an espeakup distro or some other distro to
>> burn and install?
>>
>> Jude<jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> If I got a nickel for every message I've already sent supporting Microsoft
>> Windows and its applications I'd have enough to retire on comfortably no
>> matter what the stock market did.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: speechd-up debian install question

[William Hubbs]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 07:56:15PM -0400, Christopher Moore wrote:
> You can find the source on the Debian repository.
> 
> Chris
 
 Actually, speechd-up is being maintained at
 http://www.github.com/williamh/speechd-up.

 If someone on Debian has other patches, they need to be sent to meso
 that we can get them in the official repository.

 Thanks,

 William

Re: speechd-up debian install question

[Samuel Thibault]

William Hubbs, le Sat 29 Oct 2011 18:00:27 -0500, a écrit :
>  If someone on Debian has other patches, they need to be sent to meso
>  that we can get them in the official repository.

There is no patch in Debian for speechd-up.

Samuel

Re: speechd-up debian install question

[Bill Cox]

William Hubbs has a good version of speechd-up he's maintaining.  I'm
using it on my install of Oneiric and it seems to work well, though
I'm not a strong speakup user.

Rob mentioned that it would be better if speechd-up would run as a
non-privileged user, rather than root.  I agree.  Is there a simple
way to get the speakup_soft module to be readable by a non-root user?
I guess my preference would be readable by all users, but of course
that let's anyone logged into the machine follow what's going on on
the console.  Ideally only the user logged into the console could
access /dev/synth.  Does anyone know if this is doable?

Thanks,
Bill

On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Samuel Thibault
<samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> wrote:
> William Hubbs, le Sat 29 Oct 2011 18:00:27 -0500, a écrit :
>>  If someone on Debian has other patches, they need to be sent to meso
>>  that we can get them in the official repository.
>
> There is no patch in Debian for speechd-up.
>
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: speechd-up debian install question

[Samuel Thibault]

Bill Cox, le Sun 30 Oct 2011 10:49:30 -0400, a écrit :
> Rob mentioned that it would be better if speechd-up would run as a
> non-privileged user, rather than root.  I agree.  Is there a simple
> way to get the speakup_soft module to be readable by a non-root user?

Simply chgrp/chmod /dev/softsynth. It could be useful to add to the
documentation the udev rules to do that automatically.

> I guess my preference would be readable by all users, but of course
> that let's anyone logged into the machine follow what's going on on
> the console.  Ideally only the user logged into the console could
> access /dev/synth.  Does anyone know if this is doable?

Such things are already done for sound & such, so it most probably is,
probably in udev.

Samuel

Re: speechd-up debian install question

[Bill Cox]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Samuel Thibault
<samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> wrote:
> Such things are already done for sound & such, so it most probably is,
> probably in udev.

Sounds like I need to dive into udev and console kit.  Thanks for the tips.

Bill

Re: speechd-up debian install question

[Janina Sajka]

Samuel Thibault writes:
> Bill Cox, le Sun 30 Oct 2011 10:49:30 -0400, a écrit :
> > Rob mentioned that it would be better if speechd-up would run as a
> > non-privileged user, rather than root.  I agree.  Is there a simple
> > way to get the speakup_soft module to be readable by a non-root user?
> 
> Simply chgrp/chmod /dev/softsynth. It could be useful to add to the
> documentation the udev rules to do that automatically.
> 
> > I guess my preference would be readable by all users, but of course
> > that let's anyone logged into the machine follow what's going on on
> > the console.  Ideally only the user logged into the console could
> > access /dev/synth.  Does anyone know if this is doable?
> 
> Such things are already done for sound & such, so it most probably is,
> probably in udev.
> 
I have a very hard time accepting the Linux sound environment as an
example of good practice, especially with respect to permissions.

For example, pulseaudio preventing root from playing audio is security gone wacko. It's also not a11y friendly, i.e. "give root password for system maintenance."

To my mind the proper model is the video display. Audio per;missions
should work the same way as video device permissions. On my machines,
/dev/vcs* are all chown root and chmod 660. What's wrong with that? And,
for the heck of it, why should /dev/ttsynth be more restricted?

Janina


> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
		sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)

Fwd: speechd-up debian install question

[Bill Cox]

I agree with you 100%.  The sound card needs to be as rock solid as
the display.  Not only that, but:

- We're doing *extra* work to make our system's sound less stable
- Is allowing other people logged into my machine to play sound
*really* a security issue?  I mean... are they kidding?  Maybe the
mic, but a pure output device?

Honestly, I think what happed is it was easier to write certain parts
of Pulse Audio in user mode, and to save the author a little work, the
majority of blind Linux users suffer.

Now, the entire community of sound developers can go ahead and
continue claiming there's some hypothetical benefit to this mess, but
in my experience, you do work to fix stuff to make it better, not
worse.

Bill

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
> Samuel Thibault writes:
>> Bill Cox, le Sun 30 Oct 2011 10:49:30 -0400, a écrit :
>> > Rob mentioned that it would be better if speechd-up would run as a
>> > non-privileged user, rather than root.  I agree.  Is there a simple
>> > way to get the speakup_soft module to be readable by a non-root user?
>>
>> Simply chgrp/chmod /dev/softsynth. It could be useful to add to thesou
>> documentation the udev rules to do that automatically.
>>
>> > I guess my preference would be readable by all users, but of course
>> > that let's anyone logged into the machine follow what's going on on
>> > the console.  Ideally only the user logged into the console could
>> > access /dev/synth.  Does anyone know if this is doable?
>>
>> Such things are already done for sound & such, so it most probably is,
>> probably in udev.
>>
> I have a very hard time accepting the Linux sound environment as an
> example of good practice, especially with respect to permissions.
>
> For example, pulseaudio preventing root from playing audio is security gone wacko. It's also not a11y friendly, i.e. "give root password for system maintenance."
>
> To my mind the proper model is the video display. Audio per;missions
> should work the same way as video device permissions. On my machines,
> /dev/vcs* are all chown root and chmod 660. What's wrong with that? And,
> for the heck of it, why should /dev/ttsynth be more restricted?
>
> Janina
>
>
>> Samuel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
>                sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
>
> Chair, Open Accessibility       janina@a11y.org
> Linux Foundation                http://a11y.org
>
> Chair, Protocols & Formats
> Web Accessibility Initiative    http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Fwd: speechd-up debian install question

[Chris Brannon]

Bill Cox <waywardgeek@gmail.com> writes:

> - We're doing *extra* work to make our system's sound less stable
> - Is allowing other people logged into my machine to play sound
> *really* a security issue?  I mean... are they kidding?  Maybe the
> mic, but a pure output device?

I can't say this loudly or forcefully enough.  Whoever made this
decision completely fails to understand Unix.  In Unix terminology, a
"user" is not necessarily a flesh-and-blood entity.  There are any
number of reasons why I might want to allow other "users" to play sound
on my machine, even though they aren't logged in at the console.  Unix
doesn't care.  It gets the fuck out of my way and lets me do what I need
to do, rather than assuming that it is smarter than I am.  I wish Linux
would stick to that philosophy.

-- Chris

Re: speechd-up debian install question

[Michael Whapples]

I agree so much with the general feeling. PulseAudio is really more bother 
than its worth and probably creates more issues than it solves. Are the 
security issues really a problem? Proper user groups should sort out many of 
the issues, do not let users who have remote access have sound card access 
if its really an issue.

Michael Whapples
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Cox" <waywardgeek@gmail.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:51 PM
Subject: Fwd: speechd-up debian install question


I agree with you 100%.  The sound card needs to be as rock solid as
the display.  Not only that, but:

- We're doing *extra* work to make our system's sound less stable
- Is allowing other people logged into my machine to play sound
*really* a security issue?  I mean... are they kidding?  Maybe the
mic, but a pure output device?

Honestly, I think what happed is it was easier to write certain parts
of Pulse Audio in user mode, and to save the author a little work, the
majority of blind Linux users suffer.

Now, the entire community of sound developers can go ahead and
continue claiming there's some hypothetical benefit to this mess, but
in my experience, you do work to fix stuff to make it better, not
worse.

Bill

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
> Samuel Thibault writes:
>> Bill Cox, le Sun 30 Oct 2011 10:49:30 -0400, a écrit :
>> > Rob mentioned that it would be better if speechd-up would run as a
>> > non-privileged user, rather than root. I agree. Is there a simple
>> > way to get the speakup_soft module to be readable by a non-root user?
>>
>> Simply chgrp/chmod /dev/softsynth. It could be useful to add to thesou
>> documentation the udev rules to do that automatically.
>>
>> > I guess my preference would be readable by all users, but of course
>> > that let's anyone logged into the machine follow what's going on on
>> > the console. Ideally only the user logged into the console could
>> > access /dev/synth. Does anyone know if this is doable?
>>
>> Such things are already done for sound & such, so it most probably is,
>> probably in udev.
>>
> I have a very hard time accepting the Linux sound environment as an
> example of good practice, especially with respect to permissions.
>
> For example, pulseaudio preventing root from playing audio is security 
> gone wacko. It's also not a11y friendly, i.e. "give root password for 
> system maintenance."
>
> To my mind the proper model is the video display. Audio per;missions
> should work the same way as video device permissions. On my machines,
> /dev/vcs* are all chown root and chmod 660. What's wrong with that? And,
> for the heck of it, why should /dev/ttsynth be more restricted?
>
> Janina
>
>
>> Samuel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
> sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
>
> Chair, Open Accessibility janina@a11y.org
> Linux Foundation http://a11y.org
>
> Chair, Protocols & Formats
> Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>



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