newsreading with debian lenny

newsreading with debian lenny

[Keith Barrett]

Just realised I sent this from the wrong address so probably did not get 
to the list.

I am having some problems with slrn and leafnode but I think the problem 
may be more slrn.

I have leafnode configured and it appears to go and collect a list of 
newsgroups from the isp.  However, running slrn gives the error

connecting to debian.barrettpianos.co.uk runtime error failed to 
initialise server.

I can telnet in by telnet localhost 119 and get a connection.

I have also tryed with tin a while ago with similar resaults.

Would be glad of some suggestions as I am not finding much info on the 
net.

I presume slrn will work with speakup?

Many thanks

Keith

Re: newsreading with debian lenny

[Tony Baechler]

Keith Barrett wrote:
> I have leafnode configured and it appears to go and collect a list of 
> newsgroups from the isp.  However, running slrn gives the error
>
> connecting to debian.barrettpianos.co.uk runtime error failed to 
> initialise server.
>   



This was already addressed by two people, me and someone else. You need 
to change the NNTPSERVER variable and /etc/nntpserver if it exists. With 
leafnode, there might be another file to change, but rtin or tin -r 
should still work provided you tell it to use localhost as server. As 
always, read the leafnode docs. I personally think suck is better and a 
lot easier, but to each his/her own. The advantage to leafnode is that 
you get an actual news server to connect to.

If you're serious about news reading, you might want to look at 
Supernews or Giganews. Your local ISP probably doesn't archive articles 
very long and it's hopeless if you want binaries. Supernews is cheap and 
offers text archives for years instead of a few months.

newsreading with debian lenny

[Keith Barrett]

Thanks, Tony,

Have changed the ~/.bashrc file to include the NNTP server I have set 
this as debian.barrettpianos.co.uk and also set the /etc/nntpserver to 
the same.  Hope this is correct, it is the result of the command 
hostname.

Not found anything in the leafnode docs but will keep looking.
Thanks again

Keith

Re: newsreading with debian lenny

[Alex Snow]

Why not set the nntpserver to localhost? assuming you're reading news 
on the same machine that leafnode is running on.
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 
01:00:50PM +0000, Keith Barrett wrote:
> Thanks, Tony,
> 
> Have changed the ~/.bashrc file to include the NNTP server I have set 
> this as debian.barrettpianos.co.uk and also set the /etc/nntpserver to 
> the same.  Hope this is correct, it is the result of the command 
> hostname.
> 
> Not found anything in the leafnode docs but will keep looking.
> Thanks again
> 
> Keith
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Never make any mistaeks.
	-- Anonymous, in a mail discussion about to a kernel bug report

Re: newsreading with debian lenny

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

I think he needs to set /etc/news/server  to the URL of a newsgroup
server, rather than to his own URL. I recently set up tin in response
to some of the discussions here, and had to set that file to
news.mhcable.com, on the advice of my ISP, mhcable.com. I suggest
trying a similar name, i.e. the word news and a dot in front of your
ISP's name. 

Chuck


On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:39:54AM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> Why not set the nntpserver to localhost? assuming you're reading news 
> on the same machine that leafnode is running on.
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 
> 01:00:50PM +0000, Keith Barrett wrote:
> > Thanks, Tony,
> > 
> > Have changed the ~/.bashrc file to include the NNTP server I have set 
> > this as debian.barrettpianos.co.uk and also set the /etc/nntpserver to 
> > the same.  Hope this is correct, it is the result of the command 
> > hostname.
> > 
> > Not found anything in the leafnode docs but will keep looking.
> > Thanks again
> > 
> > Keith
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> Never make any mistaeks.
> 	-- Anonymous, in a mail discussion about to a kernel bug report
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
The Moon is Waning Crescent (20% of Full)

                My web site: http://hallenbeck.ftml.net
                                --------
The young have aspirations that never come to pass,
The old have reminiscences of what never happened.
 -- H. H. Monroe

Re: newsreading with debian lenny

[Alex Snow]

If he's running leafnode he'd want to point his newsreader to 
localhost.
I'm not sure why he'd bother use leafnode, I always just used rtin and 
set it to use my ISP's newsserver.
On 
Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:47:42AM -0500, Chuck Hallenbeck wrote:
> I think he needs to set /etc/news/server  to the URL of a newsgroup
> server, rather than to his own URL. I recently set up tin in response
> to some of the discussions here, and had to set that file to
> news.mhcable.com, on the advice of my ISP, mhcable.com. I suggest
> trying a similar name, i.e. the word news and a dot in front of your
> ISP's name. 
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:39:54AM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > Why not set the nntpserver to localhost? assuming you're reading news 
> > on the same machine that leafnode is running on.
> > On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 
> > 01:00:50PM +0000, Keith Barrett wrote:
> > > Thanks, Tony,
> > > 
> > > Have changed the ~/.bashrc file to include the NNTP server I have set 
> > > this as debian.barrettpianos.co.uk and also set the /etc/nntpserver to 
> > > the same.  Hope this is correct, it is the result of the command 
> > > hostname.
> > > 
> > > Not found anything in the leafnode docs but will keep looking.
> > > Thanks again
> > > 
> > > Keith
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > -- 
> > Never make any mistaeks.
> > 	-- Anonymous, in a mail discussion about to a kernel bug report
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> The Moon is Waning Crescent (20% of Full)
> 
>                 My web site: http://hallenbeck.ftml.net
>                                 --------
> The young have aspirations that never come to pass,
> The old have reminiscences of what never happened.
>  -- H. H. Monroe
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
C is quirky, flawed, and an enormous success
	-- Dennis M. Ritchie

Re: newsreading with debian lenny

[Tony Baechler]

Alex Snow wrote:
> If he's running leafnode he'd want to point his newsreader to 
> localhost.
> I'm not sure why he'd bother use leafnode, I always just used rtin and 
> set it to use my ISP's newsserver.
>   

Because maybe his ISP news server is slow and crappy like most are.  
Unless you pay for something like Supernews, it makes more sense to 
locally archive groups that you want to read.  I have extensive archives 
of some newsgroups that would be impossible with any ISP news server 
that I've used.  Even with a good news server, it seems common to have 
dropped articles.  I don't mean spam, I mean good articles that get 
dropped for no reason.  It's very hard to follow a discussion with 1/3 
of the conversation missing.  No, I'm not pushing for Supernews, 
actually there are better pay news services out there.  I only mention 
them because they're cheap and offer good text archives.  I think it's 
$5 or $6 per month.  Granted that isn't free, but it's better than the 
local ISP news server.

In cases of readers other than tin, especially with very old readers 
like slrn, they expect you to run a local news server, thus leafnode is 
a good option.  Usenet, like other aspects of the Internet, goes back a 
very long time, long before broadband and the days when anyone could 
pull their own small news feed.

Re: newsreading with debian lenny

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

I am curious to know what you think about an application called newsx.
The URL's for help and documentation seem to be unavailable, and I'm
not sure it is still being supported. What role could it play in
working with newsgroups?

Thanks,
Chuck


On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:56:01AM -0800, Tony Baechler wrote:
> Alex Snow wrote:
>> If he's running leafnode he'd want to point his newsreader to  
>> localhost.
>> I'm not sure why he'd bother use leafnode, I always just used rtin and  
>> set it to use my ISP's newsserver.
>>   
>
> Because maybe his ISP news server is slow and crappy like most are.   
> Unless you pay for something like Supernews, it makes more sense to  
> locally archive groups that you want to read.  I have extensive archives  
> of some newsgroups that would be impossible with any ISP news server  
> that I've used.  Even with a good news server, it seems common to have  
> dropped articles.  I don't mean spam, I mean good articles that get  
> dropped for no reason.  It's very hard to follow a discussion with 1/3  
> of the conversation missing.  No, I'm not pushing for Supernews,  
> actually there are better pay news services out there.  I only mention  
> them because they're cheap and offer good text archives.  I think it's  
> $5 or $6 per month.  Granted that isn't free, but it's better than the  
> local ISP news server.
>
> In cases of readers other than tin, especially with very old readers  
> like slrn, they expect you to run a local news server, thus leafnode is  
> a good option.  Usenet, like other aspects of the Internet, goes back a  
> very long time, long before broadband and the days when anyone could  
> pull their own small news feed.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
The Moon is Waning Crescent (14% of Full)

                My web site: http://hallenbeck.ftml.net
                                --------
The young have aspirations that never come to pass,
The old have reminiscences of what never happened.
 -- H. H. Monroe

Re: newsreading with debian lenny

[John covici]

Newsx is a program to pull in newsgroups to your own spool and read
the articles locally.  You need inn to use it, but I find it
convenient.

on Tuesday 12/23/2008 Chuck Hallenbeck(chuckh@ftml.net) wrote
 > I am curious to know what you think about an application called newsx.
 > The URL's for help and documentation seem to be unavailable, and I'm
 > not sure it is still being supported. What role could it play in
 > working with newsgroups?
 > 
 > Thanks,
 > Chuck
 > 
 > 
 > On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:56:01AM -0800, Tony Baechler wrote:
 > > Alex Snow wrote:
 > >> If he's running leafnode he'd want to point his newsreader to  
 > >> localhost.
 > >> I'm not sure why he'd bother use leafnode, I always just used rtin and  
 > >> set it to use my ISP's newsserver.
 > >>   
 > >
 > > Because maybe his ISP news server is slow and crappy like most are.   
 > > Unless you pay for something like Supernews, it makes more sense to  
 > > locally archive groups that you want to read.  I have extensive archives  
 > > of some newsgroups that would be impossible with any ISP news server  
 > > that I've used.  Even with a good news server, it seems common to have  
 > > dropped articles.  I don't mean spam, I mean good articles that get  
 > > dropped for no reason.  It's very hard to follow a discussion with 1/3  
 > > of the conversation missing.  No, I'm not pushing for Supernews,  
 > > actually there are better pay news services out there.  I only mention  
 > > them because they're cheap and offer good text archives.  I think it's  
 > > $5 or $6 per month.  Granted that isn't free, but it's better than the  
 > > local ISP news server.
 > >
 > > In cases of readers other than tin, especially with very old readers  
 > > like slrn, they expect you to run a local news server, thus leafnode is  
 > > a good option.  Usenet, like other aspects of the Internet, goes back a  
 > > very long time, long before broadband and the days when anyone could  
 > > pull their own small news feed.
 > > _______________________________________________
 > > Speakup mailing list
 > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
 > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
 > 
 > -- 
 > The Moon is Waning Crescent (14% of Full)
 > 
 >                 My web site: http://hallenbeck.ftml.net
 >                                 --------
 > The young have aspirations that never come to pass,
 > The old have reminiscences of what never happened.
 >  -- H. H. Monroe
 > _______________________________________________
 > Speakup mailing list
 > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
 > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: newsreading with debian lenny

[Tony Baechler]

Chuck Hallenbeck wrote:
> I am curious to know what you think about an application called newsx.
> The URL's for help and documentation seem to be unavailable, and I'm
> not sure it is still being supported. What role could it play in
> working with newsgroups?
>   


Hi,

I'm not really sure. I might have looked at it when I was trying to set 
up news about a year ago but it doesn't ring a bell. I think it's more 
complicated because it requires a full news server such as inn which is 
intended for large sites. leafnode is for small sites as the name 
implies. What I finally ended up doing is setting up suck and ditching 
any local news server. Tin doesn't need a local news server and that's 
what I use to read. Since articles are almost always plain text, you 
could just use less if you want, especially for moderated groups. Since 
I'm not on dial-up, I can't say if newsx or suck are any faster. I 
almost never post and my local setup obviously wouldn't allow posting 
anyway because I don't run an actual news server. If one can get 
leafnode working, I would think that would be easier than trying to set 
up a full news server like inn or inn2. Then again, Usenet is starting 
to die like most text-based media so perhaps it doesn't matter. One 
thing I like about suck is that I can either pull articles manually or 
set up a cron job. Leafnode does that but will delete articles in groups 
that aren't read often. My idea here is more to archive them than to 
actually read them, so I don't want articles disappearing from my local 
server. I literally have archives of sci.space.news going back to 2003 
this way which I doubt that I would have otherwise.

Re: newsreading with debian lenny

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

Thanks, Tony.

For the moment, I've settled on running rtin -S as a cron job a couple
times a day, which does an automatic save of unread articles in a
convenient directory structure. No expirations to worry about. It
doesn't permit me to post followups conveniently, but then I only want to
to read anyway, so it's all I need, at the moment.

Chuck


-- 
The Moon is Waning Crescent (8% of Full)

                My web site: http://hallenbeck.ftml.net
                                --------
The young have aspirations that never come to pass,
The old have reminiscences of what never happened.
 -- H. H. Monroe

Re: newsreading with debian lenny

[Alex Snow]

That makes sense...I haven't been on usenet for some years, but back 
when I was my isp had an account with supernews so everything worked 
pretty well just connecting directly.  When they dropped supernews and 
installed their own servers (running Tornado I think it was called, 
some piece of crap nntp server that barely implemented the protocol 
correctly) and I drifted away from usenet although I also went off to 
school around that time so that might have caused it too.
On Tue, Dec 23, 
2008 at 03:56:01AM -0800, Tony Baechler wrote:
> Alex Snow wrote:
> >If he's running leafnode he'd want to point his newsreader to 
> >localhost.
> >I'm not sure why he'd bother use leafnode, I always just used rtin and 
> >set it to use my ISP's newsserver.
> >  
> 
> Because maybe his ISP news server is slow and crappy like most are.  
> Unless you pay for something like Supernews, it makes more sense to 
> locally archive groups that you want to read.  I have extensive archives 
> of some newsgroups that would be impossible with any ISP news server 
> that I've used.  Even with a good news server, it seems common to have 
> dropped articles.  I don't mean spam, I mean good articles that get 
> dropped for no reason.  It's very hard to follow a discussion with 1/3 
> of the conversation missing.  No, I'm not pushing for Supernews, 
> actually there are better pay news services out there.  I only mention 
> them because they're cheap and offer good text archives.  I think it's 
> $5 or $6 per month.  Granted that isn't free, but it's better than the 
> local ISP news server.
> 
> In cases of readers other than tin, especially with very old readers 
> like slrn, they expect you to run a local news server, thus leafnode is 
> a good option.  Usenet, like other aspects of the Internet, goes back a 
> very long time, long before broadband and the days when anyone could 
> pull their own small news feed.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is a
fundamental error.  Be thankful you are not my student.  You would not get a
high grade for such a design :-)
	-- Andrew Tanenbaum to Linus Torvalds