* package installation problem
@ Charles Hallenbeck
` Gregory Nowak
` John Heim
0 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Can someone please advise me what to do? I have been living happily with
the Debian unstable distro for some time, but got bitten recently. The
package "manpages-dev" was being upgraded along with a bunch of other
stuff, and it failed with an error. I tried a number of things,
including doing a remove and purge and a new install of the package, and
it still failed with the same error. I will include a snapshot of it
below. It seems that it wants to copy over a file that is included with
modutils, and that is a no no. But now I have lost the earlier set of
manpages, which includes most of the development stuff, system calls
from GCC, and the like. I am sort of out of ideas on this one, and
really miss those man pages. Here is the snapshot:
hq:~# apt-get install manpages-dev
<snip>
The following NEW packages will be installed:
manpages-dev
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0B/1158kB of archives.
After unpacking 2875kB of additional disk space will be used.
Reading package fields... 0%
Reading package fields... Done
Reading package status... 0%
Reading package status... 0%
Reading package status... Done
Retrieving bug reports... 0% [0/1]
Retrieving bug reports... 0% [0/1]
Retrieving bug reports... Done
(Reading database ... 42416 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking manpages-dev (from .../manpages-dev_2.25-2_all.deb) ...
dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/manpages-dev_2.25-2_all.deb (--unpack):
trying to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man2/create_module.2.gz', which is also in package modutils
dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
Errors were encountered while processing:
/var/cache/apt/archives/manpages-dev_2.25-2_all.deb
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
hq:~#
Thanks.
Chuck
- --
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (83% of Full)
Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE!
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread* Re: package installation problem package installation problem Charles Hallenbeck @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Charles Hallenbeck ` John Heim 1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Have you tried: apt-get -f install ? If that fails, then why not just rm /usr/share/man/man2/create_module.2.gz, since it seems to exist in the package you're trying to install anyway? If you didn't do that because you're afraid of messing up the system, then mv it over to somewhere else, so if the new package install bombs after all, you just mv it back into place, and no harm is done. BTW, I remember a while back you suggested that I consider switching from testing to unstable. This, and other encounters I've had while running unstable in the past is exactly why I've chosen to run testing now. Greg On Mon, Apr 17, 2006 at 03:44:19PM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Can someone please advise me what to do? I have been living happily with > the Debian unstable distro for some time, but got bitten recently. The > package "manpages-dev" was being upgraded along with a bunch of other > stuff, and it failed with an error. I tried a number of things, > including doing a remove and purge and a new install of the package, and > it still failed with the same error. I will include a snapshot of it > below. It seems that it wants to copy over a file that is included with > modutils, and that is a no no. But now I have lost the earlier set of > manpages, which includes most of the development stuff, system calls > from GCC, and the like. I am sort of out of ideas on this one, and > really miss those man pages. Here is the snapshot: > > > Thanks. > Chuck > > - -- > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (83% of Full) > Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh > and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFEQ/ATXnuiIOyDVQURAitZAKChkmkSH2S2FjGjUVwF6Ix3daw8dwCfc7hd > 1Tc5lhrLohlkq+u00jvOfLw= > =wLsp > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEQ//n7s9z/XlyUyARAhcVAJ0Wyh7J5XNv693JRQRgNDBR2/BbxQCgv8DI fglDGMhaPQ36kl1JPvQpECM= =/Eqx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: package installation problem ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yes, I tried the -f switch with no success. And after moving /usr/share/man/man2/create_module.2.gz to a safe place and verifying that it was gone, I get the same error message. Evidently it does not even bother to look to see if it is there, since somehow it knows that modutils also wants it to be there. I tried reinstalling modutils, dpkg, manpages-dev, nothing seems to get around this one, at least nothing I have been able to think of. - -- The Moon is Waning Gibbous (83% of Full) Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERAZfXnuiIOyDVQURAjsHAJ9qU+oL2HtMDN814HigbQlAL1E7YACfdHqI 5C/qL52ovKiv7t8BkiXAHEw= =EUFn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: package installation problem ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Charles Hallenbeck 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hmmm, since the error it is giving you seems to be specific to modutils, have you tried completely purging modutils, seeing if the package giving the error installs, and then installing modutils once more? Greg On Mon, Apr 17, 2006 at 05:19:27PM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Yes, I tried the -f switch with no success. And after moving > /usr/share/man/man2/create_module.2.gz to a safe place and verifying > that it was gone, I get the same error message. Evidently it does not > even bother to look to see if it is there, since somehow it knows that > modutils also wants it to be there. I tried reinstalling modutils, dpkg, > manpages-dev, nothing seems to get around this one, at least nothing I > have been able to think of. > > - -- > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (83% of Full) > Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh > and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFERAZfXnuiIOyDVQURAjsHAJ9qU+oL2HtMDN814HigbQlAL1E7YACfdHqI > 5C/qL52ovKiv7t8BkiXAHEw= > =EUFn > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERBrw7s9z/XlyUyARAvCNAJ9PekDHWPhxuFrdT05lWHpzDGrdaQCgpNHc E6EhiH6n2p7CbcfqQ/GXGcE= =iF0/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: package installation problem ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Thomas Stivers 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 That scares me. Might have to try that though. I did try an apt-get install modutils using both the -f and the --reinstall options, with no results, but I did not try purging or removing it first. The man page says modules-init-tools replaces all or most of modutils, but when I look at the contents of those packages, there is a hell of a lot more to modutils than there is to modules-init-tools, so that makes me a little gun shy about just removing it. - -- The Moon is Waning Gibbous (82% of Full) Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERB+3XnuiIOyDVQURAgwjAJ9IDnnyIBZ1zgVgUle2ca21aE2PEACfeN7E CpiCPmHGor9+ml/RjLaPHbo= =n9y5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: package installation problem ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` Thomas Stivers ` Charles Hallenbeck 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Thomas Stivers @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Mon, Apr 17, 2006 at 07:07:35 PM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote: > That scares me. Might have to try that though. I did try an apt-get > install modutils using both the -f and the --reinstall options, with no > results, but I did not try purging or removing it first. The man page > says modules-init-tools replaces all or most of modutils, but when I > look at the contents of those packages, there is a hell of a lot more to > modutils than there is to modules-init-tools, so that makes me a little > gun shy about just removing it. You might need to hang on to modutils if you run pre-2.6 kernels, but I just resolved the same problem by removing modutils and then confirmed that I can still add and remove modules just fine. The big difference between modutils and module-init-tools as far as I can tell (aside from the latter working with the .ko extensions) is that modutils has a lot more support for the automatic loading of modules which doesn't seem to be working in a 2.6.x kernel. The other alternative is just to wait until tomorrow and upgrade again. The debian guys will most likely have it fixed by then. That's the beauty of unstable, it may have bugs, but when found they sure get fixed fast 90% of the time. Sometimes while I was running testing I had to wait a couple weeks for bug fixes to propogate down through unstable. There have been many attempts to come up with a better naming system for the three debian distros which would be more user friendly, but all have caused more confusion than they prevented. - -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan Thomas Stivers e-mail: stivers_t@tomass.dyndns.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERR445JK61UXLur0RA7qsAJ94NOo2uWXq+LJ2ryKEJYneoDzzdwCfbjDk ke5oCvtVYPmU4c0XMY0xGUo= =BY96 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: package installation problem ` Thomas Stivers @ ` Charles Hallenbeck 0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 12:13:29PM -0500, Thomas Stivers wrote: > > The other alternative is just to wait until tomorrow and upgrade again. > The debian guys will most likely have it fixed by then. That's the > beauty of unstable, it may have bugs, but when found they sure get fixed > fast 90% of the time. Sometimes while I was running testing I had to > wait a couple weeks for bug fixes to propogate down through unstable. I agree about the speed of unstable getting fixed in general, but I had waited a week with this particular conflict not getting resolved, and began to think it was something unique to this system. But all is well, happy to say. I am running 2.6.16 here, so I guess that's it for modutils! - -- The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full) Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERSkbXnuiIOyDVQURAmDUAKCESkNxm7egwB80mzuCUkchBFeqxwCfcoIw SsoNipWXPsR097cnQqPp7ms= =d0Gk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: package installation problem package installation problem Charles Hallenbeck ` Gregory Nowak @ ` John Heim ` Charles Hallenbeck 1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: John Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. At 02:44 PM 4/17/2006, Charles Hallenbeck wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Can someone please advise me what to do? I have been living happily with >the Debian unstable distro for some time, but got bitten recently. The >package "manpages-dev" was being upgraded along with a bunch of other >stuff, and it failed with an error. I tried a number of things, >including doing a remove and purge and a new install of the package, and [...] I am not sure what modutils is but you may be able to purge and/or remove modutils, install manpages-dev, and then re-install modutils. Modutils sounds like something important though and you may not be able to remove that. PS: Somebody else mentioned that this is why they don't use the unstable version of debian... Well, I've had this come up recently with the stable version. Different packages but same problem. X11-common wouldn't install because it wanted to create a file that was in XF86Free. Of course, I don't use X but zinf wanted it installed. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: package installation problem ` John Heim @ ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Georgina Joyce ` debian versions (was: package installation problem) John Heim 0 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi John, I am still enthusiastic about unstable, even after this problem. It turns out that modutils was pretty much replaced by another package, but was still installed, and when I got up enough courage to remove it and purge its files, everything cleared up nicely. Evidently I overlooked something in a changelog or somewhere that would have told me in advance to do that. But the advantages of keeping current with Sid far outweigh the occasional problems that might arise. This is the first problem I have had with unstable in -- let's see -- closer to a year than to six months now. One thing that helps is to install apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges, which warn you during the upgrade process about known problems. Of course you have to pay attention to those warnings, though. <smile> Chuck - -- The Moon is Waning Gibbous (73% of Full) Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERWt8XnuiIOyDVQURAleFAJ9lK+sjFK0JSozU5AsFZCg8Y/7jLwCfYA4j HNE9g3ktA74TuZtzL6bp40o= =L5X8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: package installation problem ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` Georgina Joyce ` Charles Hallenbeck ` debian versions (was: package installation problem) John Heim 1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Georgina Joyce @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi Glad it's sorted out now. I did wonder because I'm using unstable but never encountered your problem. I wondered if you run apt-get upgrade only or did you run apt-get dist-upgrade every now and again? On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 06:43:08PM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi John, > > I am still enthusiastic about unstable, even after this problem. It > turns out that modutils was pretty much replaced by another package, but > was still installed, and when I got up enough courage to remove it and > purge its files, everything cleared up nicely. Evidently I overlooked > something in a changelog or somewhere that would have told me in advance > to do that. But the advantages of keeping current with Sid far outweigh > the occasional problems that might arise. This is the first problem I > have had with unstable in -- let's see -- closer to a year than to six > months now. One thing that helps is to install apt-listbugs and > apt-listchanges, which warn you during the upgrade process about known > problems. Of course you have to pay attention to those warnings, though. > <smile> > > Chuck > > - -- > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (73% of Full) > Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh > and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFERWt8XnuiIOyDVQURAleFAJ9lK+sjFK0JSozU5AsFZCg8Y/7jLwCfYA4j > HNE9g3ktA74TuZtzL6bp40o= > =L5X8 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ---end quoted text--- -- 2E0AXU Blindness Advocacy Self Help (BASH Online) bashonline-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Freedom & Power provided by debian GNU Linux ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: package installation problem ` Georgina Joyce @ ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Georgina Joyce 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Gina, I usually do a dist-upgrade just about every day. If I neglect it for several days I might do a simple upgrade first, but since I try to keep on top of the rapidly changing material on unstable, dist-upgrade makes the most sense. A simple upgrade will never add anything not already present, or remove anything in order to upgrade a package, and so sometimes things get put on hold. Doing a dist-upgrade routinely will do the necessary adds and removes required to upgrade a package, and the holds soon get resolved. No second thoughts here at all about unstable. My next New Year Resolution will be to pay more attention to the contents of the apt-changes reports that accompany an upgrade. Chuck - -- The Moon is Waning Gibbous (69% of Full) Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERg/DXnuiIOyDVQURApp+AKDA7j56AGZJyGdfusQdbdrH1bsdkgCfUbCl 8v47dfCvZhLPW2bnHXit6rA= =XgEr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: package installation problem ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` Georgina Joyce 0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread From: Georgina Joyce @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi Yes, I quite agree. But why wait until new year? <grin>. On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 06:24:03AM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi Gina, > > I usually do a dist-upgrade just about every day. If I neglect it for > several days I might do a simple upgrade first, but since I try to keep > on top of the rapidly changing material on unstable, dist-upgrade makes > the most sense. A simple upgrade will never add anything not already > present, or remove anything in order to upgrade a package, and so > sometimes things get put on hold. Doing a dist-upgrade routinely will do > the necessary adds and removes required to upgrade a package, and the > holds soon get resolved. > > No second thoughts here at all about unstable. My next New Year > Resolution will be to pay more attention to the contents of the > apt-changes reports that accompany an upgrade. > > Chuck > > - -- > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (69% of Full) > Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh > and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFERg/DXnuiIOyDVQURApp+AKDA7j56AGZJyGdfusQdbdrH1bsdkgCfUbCl > 8v47dfCvZhLPW2bnHXit6rA= > =XgEr > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ---end quoted text--- -- 2E0AXU Blindness Advocacy Self Help (BASH Online) bashonline-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Freedom & Power provided by debian GNU Linux ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Georgina Joyce @ ` John Heim ` Charles Hallenbeck ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 27+ messages in thread From: John Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. At 05:43 PM 4/18/2006, Charles Hallenbeck wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Hi John, > >I am still enthusiastic about unstable, even after this problem. It >turns out that modutils was pretty much replaced by another package, but >was still installed, and when I got up enough courage to remove it and >purge its files, everything cleared up nicely. Evidently I overlooked >something in a changelog or somewhere that would have told me in advance >to do that. But the advantages of keeping current with Sid far outweigh >the occasional problems that might arise. This is the first problem I >have had with unstable in -- let's see -- closer to a year than to six >months now. One thing that helps is to install apt-listbugs and >apt-listchanges, which warn you during the upgrade process about known >problems. Of course you have to pay attention to those warnings, though. That is a great tip. I was running unstable on my laptop for quite some time because it's very old. That may sound contradictory but by running unstable, i was able to get some driver fixes i needed. Actually, i switched back to testing just about 2 weeks ago because unstable sounds dangerous. I guess i thought i was asking for trouble by running an "unstable" version of linux. Maybe that was unnecessary. I was worried though because I've become quite dependent upon my laptop to do my job. We run stable/sarge here at the math Department at the University of wisconsin. But when I build a new machine, i use a kernel downloaded from http://people.debian.org/~shane/speakup/kernel ./ Building my own speakup enabled kernel is on my to-do list for this week. I've built kernels but never with the speakup patches. I couldn't get it to work last time I tried because I didn't have time to do it right. I was trying to cut corners and it didn't work. I need to see if I can build a kernel for pebble linux with speakup enabled. Pebble linux is a debian derivative runs on compact flash drives. If I get that working, then I can use this very small computer called a Soekris that runs linux off a cf drive. Then I can leave my laptop at home. This Soekris computer is only about 8 inches by 4 inches by 1 inch. It has a 512 Mb compact flash (which i bought myself), 1 PCI slot, 128 Mb RAM, and a 266 Mhz processor. It has a USB port, 2 serial ports, and 3 ethernet ports. No hard drive. No video. If I can get it to talk, I plan to use it to troubleshoot networking problems. The cool thing about this machine is that the BIOS setup program runs through the serial port. You get a command line interface on the first serial port and that's how you control the BIOS. Very nice for a blind guy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` debian versions (was: package installation problem) John Heim @ ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Steve Holmes ` ace 2 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 That's cool. The worst thing about unstable is its name. With a little caution you can be very happy with it, and will always have current stuff running. I installed the package called "linux-source-2.6.16-xxx" which places a source tarball in /usr/src, then patched it with speakup, configured and compiled it, and now from time to time apt-get upgrade replaces the tarball with a revision. I just patch the revision, use the same .config, compile and install it, and away we go. The linux-source packages from the Debian repositories are already patched with Debian security fixes, many of which will eventually migrate upstream to become part of future kernel releases. Best of luck, Chuck - -- The Moon is Waning Gibbous (67% of Full) Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERld1XnuiIOyDVQURAvJMAJ9DF8wLeGGYVeJ67Op7/KNe3cjPYQCeJLcu ALtomcxGlLcdAgtMxl9ifGs= =5jm6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` debian versions (was: package installation problem) John Heim ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` Steve Holmes ` John Heim ` ace 2 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Steve Holmes @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 About this little computer, is that still currently available? if so about how much do these things cost? If the price is right, this may be an excellent solution to the delema of the high cost of accessible portable computing devices for the blind. On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 09:53:05AM -0500, John Heim wrote: > At 05:43 PM 4/18/2006, Charles Hallenbeck wrote: > > I need to see if I can build a kernel for pebble linux with speakup > enabled. Pebble linux is a debian derivative runs on compact flash > drives. If I get that working, then I can use this very small computer > called a Soekris that runs linux off a cf drive. Then I can leave my laptop > at home. > > This Soekris computer is only about 8 inches by 4 inches by 1 inch. It has > a 512 Mb compact flash (which i bought myself), 1 PCI slot, 128 Mb RAM, and > a 266 Mhz processor. It has a USB port, 2 serial ports, and 3 ethernet > ports. No hard drive. No video. If I can get it to talk, I plan to use it > to troubleshoot networking problems. > > The cool thing about this machine is that the BIOS setup program runs > through the serial port. You get a command line interface on the first > serial port and that's how you control the BIOS. Very nice for a blind guy. > - -- HolmesGrown Solutions The best solutions for the best price! http://ld.net/?holmesgrown -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERprCWSjv55S0LfERAz20AJ426Wtd56r7VZMbpAkWm5Z07tpssACg7oPO dYU+wNT6osirFPmJ1pUmdOM= =u1MV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` Steve Holmes @ ` John Heim ` Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: John Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. At 03:17 PM 4/19/2006, Steve Holmes wrote: >About this little computer, is that still currently available? if so >about how much do these things cost? If the price is right, this may be >an excellent solution to the delema of the high cost of accessible >portable computing devices for the blind. I was thinking about that too. The math Department bought one of these things intending to use it as a wireless router. That's what it is designed for. But my predecessor never got around to setting it up and they ended up just buying preconfigured routers. So for me, the device itself was free. Anyway, the current price on soekris.com is $240 for the device I have. I spent $20 on a 512 Mb CF drive. Figure another $25 for a sound card (just any sound card won't work -- you need a low voltage, half height card). A USB keyboard is another $20. So to do it yourself it would be around $300. If you have an external speech synth, as i do, you wouldn't need the sound card I was talking to a guy last week who had bought a brand new 1.5 Ghz laptop for $500. A soekris computer would have some advantages and some disadvantages over just buying a cheap laptop: 1. The soekris has just a 266 Mhz processor so software speech may be a problem. Once I get it working with my doubletalk external, I intend to buy a sound card and try software speech. I can report back then. 2. The soekris doesn't have a battery so that is a major drawback compared to just getting a cheap laptop. 3. The AC adapter is amazingly small. It's only about the size of my thumb. So it would be easy to carry around if you're going to be where you can plug it in. 4. You can configure the BIOS yourself. I mentioned this earlier but the BIOS is controlled through the first serial port. That's not true for any laptop I know of. 5. The soekirs has no keyboard. You'd have to lug around a USB keyboard. I did a search on ebay and saw that there is a used soekirs 4801 currently at $100. That's the one with the 266 processor. There is a couple of 4501s going for the $30 range. They have a 133 Mhz processor. But with an external speech synth, they'd probably be okay. So if somebody wants to goof with it, it might be worthwhile. One thing that would be cool would be if you're sitting there at your keyboard typing away (no monitor, of course) and somebody comes into your office and says, "Hey, where is your computer?" You tap the little soekris machine and say, "Right here." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` John Heim @ ` Gregory Nowak ` John Heim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Apr 21, 2006 at 10:53:36AM -0500, John Heim wrote: > Figure another $25 for a sound card (just > any sound card won't work -- you need a low voltage, half height card). Where does one get one of those? They're not very common. > 1. The soekris has just a 266 Mhz processor so software speech may be a > problem. I'm currently running speakup with speechd-up, speech-dispatcher, and flite as the synth, on a 266 Mhz AMD k5-based laptop, which seems to be roughly the same CPU as the one used in the Soekris machines, and it's running just fine without problems. BTW, I've just had a look at the Soekris web site, and didn't see the 4500 mentioned anywhere. The lowest 4500 model mentioned is the 4501, and that comes only with a 133 Mhz 486 class CPU. Greg - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFESS/17s9z/XlyUyARAkPJAJ9COsqDbzr/ITP57ecsrOyVsbOTygCeIL8H LiOOXqy1c2D68/imIuoKKLI= =50fg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` Gregory Nowak @ ` John Heim ` the soekris machines, was: " Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: John Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. At 02:18 PM 4/21/2006, Gregory Nowak wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >On Fri, Apr 21, 2006 at 10:53:36AM -0500, John Heim wrote: > > any sound card won't work -- you need a low voltage, half height >card). > >Where does one get one of those? They're not very common. I don't know right now. It's come up on the soekris email list from time to time. I wasn't ready to put a sound card in so I didn't pay much attention. I didn't know 3.3v sound cards were that hard to find. There happened to be a full-height 3.3v sound card lying around here so I assumed they were fairly common. I can probably try to get software speech working with the full sized card. It sticks out of the case but that should not be a problem while I'm messing with it. BTW, I've just had a look at the Soekris web site, and didn't see the >4500 mentioned anywhere. The lowest 4500 model mentioned is the 4501, >and that comes only with a 133 Mhz 486 class CPU. I have a 4801. If I ever talked about a 4500, it was merely a typo. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* the soekris machines, was: Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` John Heim @ ` Gregory Nowak ` John Heim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Perhaps I should clarify. I didn't mean that 3.3V sound cards weren't very common, I meant that sound cards other then full-height ones weren't very common. I would have thought my post made this fairly obvious, but maybe not to everyone. BTW, I realized that in my previous post, I wrote that the laptop I was using was AMD k5-based, it's actually an AMD k6. I was thinking of 586 class machines, so I guess that's where the 5 came from (grin). Greg On Fri, Apr 21, 2006 at 03:21:19PM -0500, John Heim wrote: > I don't know right now. It's come up on the soekris email list from time to > time. I wasn't ready to put a sound card in so I didn't pay much attention. > I didn't know 3.3v sound cards were that hard to find. There happened to be > a full-height 3.3v sound card lying around here so I assumed they were > fairly common. > - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFESUFz7s9z/XlyUyARAovsAKCNUJnZUz+m9V1rnEfNztYkFgO9XACgvA5u q2O5+ckVw9wJYERCcKqzSjs= =3mwI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: the soekris machines, was: Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` the soekris machines, was: " Gregory Nowak @ ` John Heim 0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread From: John Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. At 03:32 PM 4/21/2006, Gregory Nowak wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Perhaps I should clarify. I didn't mean that 3.3V sound cards >weren't very common, I meant that sound cards other then full-height >ones weren't very common. I would have thought my post made this fairly >obvious, >but maybe not to everyone. You can google for "low profile". If you can google for "3.3v" I don't know how. So I found plenty of half-height sound cards but who knows if they're the right voltage. The cheapest low profile card I found is $60 including shipping: http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=2629898&jumpid=ex_r2910_bizratesmb/audio_ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` debian versions (was: package installation problem) John Heim ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Steve Holmes @ ` ace ` Charles Hallenbeck 2 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: ace @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello, What is the difference between unstable and testing? Are there CD versions of either of these? On debian.org, I notice that there is a CD distro of the stable version--how old is this? Is it Sarge? I am interested in perhaps giving Debian a try but I prefer staying up-to-date and can't easily perform a net install over a dialup. Robby -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERp5WwamDI1Gy2GIRAi7uAKDLSLSrE2yBLixvmeWQntO/ld14gwCfRpjs w5yH8MgWpKUd7YJkpFsGQwo= =/Xyv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` ace @ ` Charles Hallenbeck ` ace 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Robbie, I don't think Debian is available on CD's much beyond the stable release (Sarge) or maybe an earlier stable one. I doubt you could keep it up to date over a dialup connection. You would be spending lots of hours retrieving stuff, at least with unstable you would. There are always three versions of Debian available. Currently stable is called Sarge, testing is called Etch, and unstable is always called Sid. Stable remains fixed except for security updates. Etch is a sort of staging area where the next stable release gradually takes shape. Eventually it will be judged mature enough to replace Sarge as the stable version, at which point Sarge becomes history, Etch becomes the stable release, and a new name is thought up for a new testing release. Meanwhile Sid exists (unstable) as a kind of rapid turnover beta testing collection of things. New offerings appear in Sid first, where they remain until the kinks are worked out. Users of Sid are warned that things might sometimes break, but the fact is that when that happens, they get fixed pretty quickly too. Packages are moved into testing from unstable at some point, hopefully bug free, but of course occasionally something show up in testing that had not been seen before. When that happens, testing is generally out of luck until the cycle begins again. The fix appears in unstable and is put through the mill again, eventually returning to testing after a successful exposure in Sid. So you see, if you really to keep up with the latest version of things, unstable is the place to be. If you want a rock solid release that will not give you any surprises, then stable is the place to be. If you want to be a little bit ahead of the game, but are afraid of being a beta tester, then testing might be the place. The trouble with testing is that broken packages stay broken until they pass the test of use in unstable once more. HTH Chuck - -- The Moon is Waning Gibbous (65% of Full) Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERpPxXnuiIOyDVQURAqsOAKCLdRRCdTBppFDrAtm5c94rJukKtwCeOkZm eOT5fzF+sEev7xEkM+vNqd4= =3DM6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` ace ` Charles Hallenbeck 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: ace @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 So, there isn't a way to upgrade packages in the stable version? Like if there is a new version of openssl, could one just do apt-upgrade or something like that or are they stuck with the version included on the CD? If this is a case, then one can run a pretty up-to-date system with the stable version, correct? Also, how long has the current Sarge been out? Thanks for answering my questions. Robby On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 03:48:01PM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi Robbie, > > I don't think Debian is available on CD's much beyond the stable release > (Sarge) or maybe an earlier stable one. I doubt you could keep it up to > date over a dialup connection. You would be spending lots of hours > retrieving stuff, at least with unstable you would. > > There are always three versions of Debian available. Currently stable is > called Sarge, testing is called Etch, and unstable is always called Sid. > Stable remains fixed except for security updates. Etch is a sort of > staging area where the next stable release gradually takes shape. > Eventually it will be judged mature enough to replace Sarge as the > stable version, at which point Sarge becomes history, Etch becomes the > stable release, and a new name is thought up for a new testing release. > > Meanwhile Sid exists (unstable) as a kind of rapid turnover beta testing > collection of things. New offerings appear in Sid first, where they > remain until the kinks are worked out. Users of Sid are warned that > things might sometimes break, but the fact is that when that happens, > they get fixed pretty quickly too. Packages are moved into testing from > unstable at some point, hopefully bug free, but of course occasionally > something show up in testing that had not been seen before. When that > happens, testing is generally out of luck until the cycle begins again. > The fix appears in unstable and is put through the mill again, > eventually returning to testing after a successful exposure in Sid. > > So you see, if you really to keep up with the latest version of things, > unstable is the place to be. If you want a rock solid release that will > not give you any surprises, then stable is the place to be. If you want > to be a little bit ahead of the game, but are afraid of being a beta > tester, then testing might be the place. The trouble with testing is > that broken packages stay broken until they pass the test of use in > unstable once more. > > HTH > > Chuck > > - -- > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (65% of Full) > Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh > and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFERpPxXnuiIOyDVQURAqsOAKCLdRRCdTBppFDrAtm5c94rJukKtwCeOkZm > eOT5fzF+sEev7xEkM+vNqd4= > =3DM6 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERqUswamDI1Gy2GIRAov+AKCv1/hvjKTyR18vPbWyyJ0nCO6UswCgnqe1 CNSCsog4mSReS+Lsjwo5q6A= =LWz4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` ace @ ` Charles Hallenbeck ` ace 0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Theoretically it is possible to mix and match from the different releases, but it is very tricky and not a good idea, especially for beginners. The problem is all the dependencies that go along with a "foreign" package. Sarge moved from testing to stable a little less than a year ago, and it isn't that old, actually. You can run a 2.6 kernel in it for instance. Etch is scheduled for release as the next stable version by the end of 2006, but such schedules have a tendency to be optimistic. - -- The Moon is Waning Gibbous (64% of Full) Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERpyjXnuiIOyDVQURAlo/AKCNucaClnf3uImOZ9d0z2NEHPh15ACgk1N0 63iYqCFTeELKk54/Qkuirz4= =34SY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` ace ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Thomas Stivers 0 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread From: ace @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 OK, one more question. :) If a security fix comes out for a package...say Mutt or something...Will it be available for stable users to apply without having to take it from an unstable or testing branch or does stable just remain the same until testing becomes stable? Robby On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 04:25:07PM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Theoretically it is possible to mix and match from the different > releases, but it is very tricky and not a good idea, especially for > beginners. The problem is all the dependencies that go along with a > "foreign" package. > > Sarge moved from testing to stable a little less than a year ago, and it > isn't that old, actually. You can run a 2.6 kernel in it for instance. > Etch is scheduled for release as the next stable version by the end of > 2006, but such schedules have a tendency to be optimistic. > > - -- > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (64% of Full) > Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh > and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFERpyjXnuiIOyDVQURAlo/AKCNucaClnf3uImOZ9d0z2NEHPh15ACgk1N0 > 63iYqCFTeELKk54/Qkuirz4= > =34SY > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERqz5wamDI1Gy2GIRAlYUAJ9YtESD1CspTGximCECH8avlivm8QCffehf 1fSO2kLcAASFHRQrf+iUjJI= =o2cE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` ace @ ` Charles Hallenbeck ` Thomas Stivers 1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread From: Charles Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Security patches are always made available for packages in stable as well as in testing. But new features will never be added to a stable package. That presents an interesting problem for including Mozilla in Sarge, since when the Mozilla folks release a new version it typically addresses security fixes but also adds new features. So the Debian folks are not sure how to handle this. It seems against the rules to update a stable package in a way that adds new features, and yet they have to keep it safe to use. Some folks have even argued that maybe mozilla should not even be included in Sarge for that reason, but of course it is. The unstable release does not have any official security patches. There are security problems discovered sometimes of course, but those are fixed when found, and just not called security patches. A security patch is only issued for a package that has previously been released into either the testing or the stable distributions. - -- The Moon is Waning Gibbous (64% of Full) Get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh and remember, INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERqDdXnuiIOyDVQURAg5YAKCudhS3CBtagcKmQEHD9yx+ZiZAQwCfVCrP FU5ppOiZ1mBYWsUctgznmMg= =6ljA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: debian versions (was: package installation problem) ` ace ` Charles Hallenbeck @ ` Thomas Stivers 1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread From: Thomas Stivers @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 04:34:49 PM -0500, ace wrote: > OK, one more question. :) > > If a security fix comes out for a package...say Mutt or something...Will > it be available for stable users to apply without having to take it from > an unstable or testing branch or does stable just remain the same until > testing becomes stable? There is an apt repository for security fixes which stable users can add to their /etc/apt/sources.list. Every couple months a new revision of stable comes out wich puts all the security fixes that have been made on a new cd release. Security fixes are the only changes which happen to stable until testing becomes the next stable. - -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan Thomas Stivers e-mail: stivers_t@tomass.dyndns.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFERqEF5JK61UXLur0RA+A+AJ9kL5IbsDtpkHhjogemdV0N9hvMqQCfcrEt 9Pha4lhPQcb92VPNC50o+tM= =ri7A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread
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` debian versions (was: package installation problem) John Heim
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