Quoting

Quoting

[Christian Gerhardt]

Hi *!

I am really trying to follow your interesting discussions, but it appears to
be pretty hard due to the fact that passages are not properly quoted. It would
be a big help if you could do so, please. If someone doesn't know how to
properly quote passages, please read:

www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

Have a nice week end and thanks in advance,
Christian

Re: Quoting

[Janina Sajka]

Dear Christian:

If you have a problem with the way email is quoted (or maybe not quoted)
on this list by people responding, why not explain yourself. Pointing us
to some obscure web site which purports to publish the word of God on
quoting is not going to get very far here, I think. I know it isn't
going to with me.

By the way, we're aware that our practices in quoting are not those
commonly practiced on most lists. We tend to prefer it that way, and we
certainly do have our reasons for it.

So, if you have a problem with it, please speak up and explain your
problem in your own words.

Christian Gerhardt writes:
> Hi *!
> 
> I am really trying to follow your interesting discussions, but it appears to
> be pretty hard due to the fact that passages are not properly quoted. It would
> be a big help if you could do so, please. If someone doesn't know how to
> properly quote passages, please read:
> 
> www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> 
> Have a nice week end and thanks in advance,
> Christian
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
Bringing the Owasys 22C screenless cell phone to the U.S. and Canada. Go to http://www.ScreenlessPhone.Com to learn more.

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Re: Quoting

[Thomas Stivers]

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Hash: RIPEMD160

On Sat, Jul 30, 2005 at 09:59:23 AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Dear Christian:
> 
> If you have a problem with the way email is quoted (or maybe not quoted)
> on this list by people responding, why not explain yourself. Pointing us
> to some obscure web site which purports to publish the word of God on
> quoting is not going to get very far here, I think. I know it isn't
> going to with me.

Oh for the love of god, we're not going to have one of these rediculous
top vs bottom vs inline quoting arguments on this list too. If you
really feel that getting into a discussion about this is necessary just
google for top posting and you can read many gigabytes of debate.

> By the way, we're aware that our practices in quoting are not those
> commonly practiced on most lists. We tend to prefer it that way, and we
> certainly do have our reasons for it.

Thanks, I've been wondering how *we* felt.

- -- 
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan

Thomas Stivers	e-mail: stivers_t@tomass.dyndns.org
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Re: Quoting

[Hart Larry]

Well, I was trying to figure out what mailer Christian was useing?  At least 
now in pine, you can change a setting to minus 10 so you almost never hear 
quoting.  I myself think quoting is a waste of time, since if I am interested 
in a thread, I've already heard an orriginal msg.
>From what I remember, at least we didn't have much quoting in the good old days 
of CompuServe
Hart

Re: Quoting

[Lorenzo Taylor]

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Sorry.  I don't quote unless I absolutely have to.  I feel that quoting
wastes the reader's time since he/she has already read the same message
once, twice or even 5 times already.  Why should I add to that problem?

Lorenzo
- -- 
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Re: Quoting

[Karen Lewellen]

Lorenzo,
With all due respect, this may not be true.  People are joining all the 
time, and even those here are searching the archives when looking for 
something.  Sometimes a thread shifts and the first part of it or the 
source question   is no longer clear.
Therefore at least in a information based list like this repeating that 
message both gives readers a chance to follow  the discussion, and may 
even save time in having a topic repeated.
Does this make sense?
Karen

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, Lorenzo Taylor wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Sorry.  I don't quote unless I absolutely have to.  I feel that quoting
> wastes the reader's time since he/she has already read the same message
> once, twice or even 5 times already.  Why should I add to that problem?
>
> Lorenzo
> - --
> - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GCS d- s:+ a- C+++ UL++++ P+ L+++ E- W++ N o K- w---
> O M V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP++ t++ 5+ X+ R tv-- b++ DI-- D+
> G e* h---- r+++ y+++
> - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
>
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> =O9eN
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Quoting

[Glenn at home]

Also, for anyone else who might not like quoting, if the quoting occurs 
after the message, then it is not a problem for anyone.  I also don't like 
the quoting at the top, because most of the time I don't want to read 
through it, but it is nice to have it below.
Glenn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@shellworld.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Quoting


Lorenzo,
With all due respect, this may not be true.  People are joining all the
time, and even those here are searching the archives when looking for
something.  Sometimes a thread shifts and the first part of it or the
source question   is no longer clear.
Therefore at least in a information based list like this repeating that
message both gives readers a chance to follow  the discussion, and may
even save time in having a topic repeated.
Does this make sense?
Karen

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, Lorenzo Taylor wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Sorry.  I don't quote unless I absolutely have to.  I feel that quoting
> wastes the reader's time since he/she has already read the same message
> once, twice or even 5 times already.  Why should I add to that problem?
>
> Lorenzo
> - --
> - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GCS d- s:+ a- C+++ UL++++ P+ L+++ E- W++ N o K- w---
> O M V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP++ t++ 5+ X+ R tv-- b++ DI-- D+
> G e* h---- r+++ y+++
> - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFC7GycG9IpekrhBfIRAvA7AJ9zxbrRmI7aHxBuPXZgpQuiveTonACgmAOj
> nedF/D8UBBiexS5igbHNObM=
> =O9eN
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Quoting

[Karen Lewellen]

Just so.  I always put my comments at the top for that reason.  Then 
anyone who need not read the source message  does not have to do this.
Karen

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, Glenn at home wrote:

> Also, for anyone else who might not like quoting, if the quoting occurs
> after the message, then it is not a problem for anyone.  I also don't like
> the quoting at the top, because most of the time I don't want to read
> through it, but it is nice to have it below.
> Glenn
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@shellworld.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 7:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Quoting
>
>
> Lorenzo,
> With all due respect, this may not be true.  People are joining all the
> time, and even those here are searching the archives when looking for
> something.  Sometimes a thread shifts and the first part of it or the
> source question   is no longer clear.
> Therefore at least in a information based list like this repeating that
> message both gives readers a chance to follow  the discussion, and may
> even save time in having a topic repeated.
> Does this make sense?
> Karen
>
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, Lorenzo Taylor wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Sorry.  I don't quote unless I absolutely have to.  I feel that quoting
>> wastes the reader's time since he/she has already read the same message
>> once, twice or even 5 times already.  Why should I add to that problem?
>>
>> Lorenzo
>> - --
>> - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>> Version: 3.12
>> GCS d- s:+ a- C+++ UL++++ P+ L+++ E- W++ N o K- w---
>> O M V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP++ t++ 5+ X+ R tv-- b++ DI-- D+
>> G e* h---- r+++ y+++
>> - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>> iD8DBQFC7GycG9IpekrhBfIRAvA7AJ9zxbrRmI7aHxBuPXZgpQuiveTonACgmAOj
>> nedF/D8UBBiexS5igbHNObM=
>> =O9eN
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Quoting

[Gene Collins]

Hi Karen and all.  Regardless of what quoting style you use, judicious
quoting is always in order.  Some folks have a habit of hitting the
reply button, typing in their response, and not removing the unnecessary
quoted material at the bottom.  This wastes network bandwidth, and disk
space on the mail server the message is going to.

For example.  Let's say I'm responding to a ten k message, and all I
want to do is send a "please send me a copy also." message.  If I trim
the quoted material, and only reference the material I want a copy of
instead of the whole message, My out going message could be only one k
or less, instead of the original ten k.  My out going mail server didn't
have as much to process, and the list server it finally arrived at,
which may have several thousand members on a list, had lots less to do. 
Let's say the list has a round one thousand members for example. 
Instead of the ten million plus characters that would have had to be
processed for the ten k message, the server only has to process a
million characters for the one thousand one k messages.

The fact that people have been indiscriminately quoting a whole thread
with their message at the top is why Kirk has had to put a five k
message size on the Speakup list.  Quoting can be useful when done well.
 When done indiscriminately and without thought, it's a waste of time
and resources.

Gene

>Just so.  I always put my comments at the top for that reason.  Then 
>anyone who need not read the source message  does not have to do this.
>Karen

Re: Quoting

[Janina Sajka]

Thomas Stivers writes:
> 
> Thanks, I've been wondering how *we* felt.
> 

I said it was my opinion.

But, even if I hadn't said that, am I wrong?

Re: Quoting

[Christian Gerhardt]

Hi!

* Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> schrieb:
> [...] By the way, we're aware that our practices in quoting are not those
> commonly practiced on most lists. We tend to prefer it that way, and we
> certainly do have our reasons for it.
 
Well, that's all I need to know. Thank you.

> So, if you have a problem with it, please speak up and explain your
> problem in your own words.
 
Since you said this is the way you all prefer to quote, it dosn't make any
sense and because it is too much work for me to follow such postings I think I
will leave this place.

Bye,
Christian

Re: Quoting

[Steve Holmes]

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Another shameless plug for mutt because mutt has a command (Capital S by
default) that skips you over any previous quoting.  I generally prefer
putting my answer on top and having other messages posted that way so
you can just read that part and if I need more context, I can keep on
reading.  But if somebody has 5 levels of quoting before the single line
response, I just hit "S" in mutt and the cursor is taken down to the
most current unquoted text.  So that makes top quoted mail more
tollerable for me.

- -- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
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Re: Quoting

[Sean McMahon]

I noticed that some folks have it so the name of the person who said the quote
is placed before the quoting char.  How do you dothat.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Holmes" <steve@holmesgrown.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: Quoting


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Another shameless plug for mutt because mutt has a command (Capital S by
> default) that skips you over any previous quoting.  I generally prefer
> putting my answer on top and having other messages posted that way so
> you can just read that part and if I need more context, I can keep on
> reading.  But if somebody has 5 levels of quoting before the single line
> response, I just hit "S" in mutt and the cursor is taken down to the
> most current unquoted text.  So that makes top quoted mail more
> tollerable for me.
>
> - -- 
> HolmesGrown Solutions
> The best solutions for the best price!
> http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.7 (GNU/Linux)
>
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> =dxEE
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Quoting

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Hmmm ... On my version it is cap T. Are those two different commands?


On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 04:35:02PM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> Another shameless plug for mutt because mutt has a command (Capital S by
> default) that skips you over any previous quoting.  I generally prefer
> putting my answer on top and having other messages posted that way so
> you can just read that part and if I need more context, I can keep on
> reading.  But if somebody has 5 levels of quoting before the single line
> response, I just hit "S" in mutt and the cursor is taken down to the
> most current unquoted text.  So that makes top quoted mail more
> tollerable for me.
> 
> -- 
> HolmesGrown Solutions
> The best solutions for the best price!
> http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
The Moon is Waning Crescent (1% of Full)
But you can still get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh

Re: Quoting

[Steve Holmes]

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Hash: RIPEMD160

I think the difference is the 'T' command removes all quoted stuff and
'S' just skipps you down to the new sections.  I haven't used the 'T'
command much but recall it being mentioned on the mutt list some time
back.

On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 08:11:52PM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> Hmmm ... On my version it is cap T. Are those two different commands?
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 04:35:02PM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > Another shameless plug for mutt because mutt has a command (Capital S by
> > default) that skips you over any previous quoting.  I generally prefer
> > putting my answer on top and having other messages posted that way so
> > you can just read that part and if I need more context, I can keep on
> > reading.  But if somebody has 5 levels of quoting before the single line
> > response, I just hit "S" in mutt and the cursor is taken down to the
> > most current unquoted text.  So that makes top quoted mail more
> > tollerable for me.
> > 
> > -- 
> > HolmesGrown Solutions
> > The best solutions for the best price!
> > http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> The Moon is Waning Crescent (1% of Full)
> But you can still get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

- -- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
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RE: Quoting

[Dawes, Stephen]

Gene,

A lot of what you say I agree with. However, there is also a lot of
unnecessary list traffic that if people stopped sending it would also
have a significant impact on band width usage. I am referring to the
messages that all you see in them are things like:
"me too"
"here here"
"yes"
"no"

In a long thread, who are you saying any of the above to? What part of
the Thread are you responding to?

There is a balance somewhere and that is what needs to be reached. 

There is a place for proper referencing, quoting, but there is also a
need to get rid of unnecessary list traffic, which is equally annoying
in my opinion.



Steve Dawes
Phone: (403) 268-5527
Email: SDawes@calgary.ca
 
 


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Re: Quoting

[Gene Collins]

Steve, you are correct, but all we can do is plant ideas, we can't do
people's thinking for them.

The one liner messages that quote an intire thread are particularly
annoying, but even the one liners themselves don't add much of anything
to a thread.  Having a notion of what happens when someone presses the
send button is helpful.  Thinking about the contents of a post before
you send it is even more helpful.

Gene

>Gene,
>
>A lot of what you say I agree with. However, there is also a lot of
>unnecessary list traffic that if people stopped sending it would also
>have a significant impact on band width usage.