Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[MaTt]

actually if i didn't have a pathetic computer, i'd be using linux right now,
instead of fighting with a stupid floppy drive that doesn't work, all
because of (not for sure but) windows 98 screwed edition lol
and yes the screen review choices (soooooooo many that we have) NOT  I'm not
bashing jfw but, why the heck is it more than the other one..not mentioning
any names, and no offense to anyone, i've tried both and jfw is lacking..for
what it should do for the price.  anyway to give another example (as if i
need another argument against windows:)  windows cant even realize when a
program starts crashing..it either locks the whole system so ya wanna beat
the computer til it cant possibly work, or, the one illegal opp, causes a
dominoe effect that you cant stop fast enough:)
and about the calc, sometimes when u change into that window, it wont read
right away, u have to go out of the window alt-tab, and then back to it
again
then it might not work even
oh hey, take both of the w's out of windows, and all u have left is "in
dos":)
well, thats my 2 cents worth on windows, which its windows....ok ok ok, i'll
stop lol

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey8@telus.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 7:14 AM
Subject: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use


> oh, can someone please tell me how to get word (crap) to open (with c-o)
in a certain directory?
> this is sort of important for my science class, but i could always bang at
the help which ... <rants more>
> well, here's my small story.
> i was in science class, and wanted to tell word (that word processor that
just
> can't do anything) where to save its stuff and open by default.
> i asked two computer teachers, and nothing. i looked, and nothing. i knew
i had it before, but still, nothing.
> so i'm stuck with that. that's not easy to use. hitting
> backspace in the file lists, and having jfw  announce other information,
is entirely useless.
> and not to mention the windows calculator:
> i got sick of doing c-esc p a c c a dozen times until i got it,
> so just type calc from the run dialog - but anyway,
> i was in calc, (it really really sucks), and
> i made a typo. i hit enter, and it hung the program. jaws still worked,
> but i didn't know it was hung, because it was eating up all my CPU and
making jaws slow.
> so i ahd to ask someone to come over and fix it, because i couldn't access
the
> task manager. now that is ease-of-use? yeah right.
> in linux, i could have hit alt-f2 and typed:
> killall -9 calc
> and it would have (usually) been done.
> same with my scsi addapter - it worked under linux (sort of), worked great
under
> freebsd, but died under ms. i no longer have any ms products on my hard
drives,
> and am puting off the day my father needs ms as long as possible, because
i keep
> "losing" the cds. i probably place them somewhere and forget.
> ms is junk. maybe not for some things, but for most things it doesn't even
work properly.
> you have a disk crash, you're wasting copies of jfw.
> what about jfw and ie? i went to a teacher's page,
> under ie and edbrowse,
> and jaws said (under ie) something like a long url.
> edbrowse said the alt text. arg.
> i pop into dos so often to copy that science document (in .txt of course),
or mkdir something -
> explorer is ... dull. you have to actually press a lot of keys to resize
the columns.
> which, b the way, jaws says "blank", and that is a pain.
> ms doesn't have any sort of api to explorer as far as i know, so we're
stuck with truncated file names until we resize the columns.
> and i hate multi-column lists, because you constantly gotta arrow around
to get at 'm.
> same with word - it lands you on the first file, skipping folders. that
should be configurable, not a forced default.
> or where i want to open my files, not in the ms office directory.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

(rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Ann Parsons]

Hi Tylor,

<smile>  that's a pretty good rant, my friend.  If you keep this up,
you may just surpass some of the best ranters on the net.  Let me see
if I can help you just a little bit here.

>>>>> "Tyler" == Tyler Spivey <tspivey8@telus.net> writes:

    Tyler> oh, can someone please tell me how to get word (crap) to
    Tyler> open (with c-o) in a certain directory?  this is sort of
    Tyler> important for my science class, but i could always bang at
    Tyler> the help which ... <rants more> 

I Tylor, I am not sure what you mean here, but let me see if I can
help.  You want to open or to save docs in something other than My
Documents or My Office or whatever, right?  Let's take the saving
issue first because if you can't save the thing where you want it, you
won't be able to retrieve it.  When you hit ctrl-s in a new doc it
opens the save-as dialogue box.  You are sitting on the edit field
where you type in the file name.  Instead of typing in just the file
name, type in the path to that file name.  Now you have to realize
that Windows is *not* going to create any directory that isn't already
there, so if you need help to create directories from My Computer let
me know privately and we'll go backward in the learning curve to pick
up that bit.   So type in the whole path plus the filename, e.g. c:\my
documents\Science papers\oxygen1.doc  

Once you've saved the file where you want it, then opening MSWord and
that file shouldn't be a problem.  The thing is you can't tell Word to
open itself in the directory where you want it to be, all you can =do
is tell it which file in which directory you want.  So, if you're in
something else, popen a window and get into MSWord.  The quickest way
is to use windows-D and open the desktop and hit the shortcut from
there if you have one.   Then, hit ctrl-o to open your file menu.  You
will be placed in the edit field.  It looks the same as the one for
the save-as dialogue.  So, type in the whole path:  c:\my
documents\science papers\oxygen1.doc

That should bring up the file you want.  Here's a cute little tip for
you.  If you go into the file menu of MSWord, the last four files you
worked on will be listed there.  Just press enter on the one you
want.  

    Tyler>  what about jfw and
    Tyler> ie? i went to a teacher's page, under ie and edbrowse, and
    Tyler> jaws said (under ie) something like a long url.  edbrowse
    Tyler> said the alt text. arg.  i pop into dos so often to copy
    Tyler> that science document (in .txt of course), or mkdir
    Tyler> something - explorer is ... dull. you have to actually
    Tyler> press a lot of keys to resize the columns.  which, b the
    Tyler> way, jaws says "blank", and that is a pain.  ms doesn't
    Tyler> have any sort of api to explorer as far as i know, so we're
    Tyler> stuck with truncated file names until we resize the
    Tyler> columns.  and i hate multi-column lists, because you
    Tyler> constantly gotta arrow around to get at 'm.  same with word
    Tyler> - it lands you on the first file, skipping folders. that
    Tyler> should be configurable, not a forced default.  

I'm not sure what some of this is about, Tyler, but you can get
Windows to show you files with their paths if you want.  Open My
Computer and get into C.  Then, go to the view menue and arrow down
till you get to options.  In there you will come to the files and
folders options.  Explore that and see what happens.

Ann P.


-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

(rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Tyler Spivey]

oh, can someone please tell me how to get word (crap) to open (with c-o) in a certain directory?
this is sort of important for my science class, but i could always bang at the help which ... <rants more>
well, here's my small story.
i was in science class, and wanted to tell word (that word processor that just
can't do anything) where to save its stuff and open by default.
i asked two computer teachers, and nothing. i looked, and nothing. i knew i had it before, but still, nothing.
so i'm stuck with that. that's not easy to use. hitting
backspace in the file lists, and having jfw  announce other information, is entirely useless.
and not to mention the windows calculator:
i got sick of doing c-esc p a c c a dozen times until i got it,
so just type calc from the run dialog - but anyway,
i was in calc, (it really really sucks), and 
i made a typo. i hit enter, and it hung the program. jaws still worked,
but i didn't know it was hung, because it was eating up all my CPU and making jaws slow.
so i ahd to ask someone to come over and fix it, because i couldn't access the
task manager. now that is ease-of-use? yeah right.
in linux, i could have hit alt-f2 and typed:
killall -9 calc
and it would have (usually) been done.
same with my scsi addapter - it worked under linux (sort of), worked great under 
freebsd, but died under ms. i no longer have any ms products on my hard drives,
and am puting off the day my father needs ms as long as possible, because i keep
"losing" the cds. i probably place them somewhere and forget.
ms is junk. maybe not for some things, but for most things it doesn't even work properly.
you have a disk crash, you're wasting copies of jfw. 
what about jfw and ie? i went to a teacher's page,
under ie and edbrowse,
and jaws said (under ie) something like a long url.
edbrowse said the alt text. arg.
i pop into dos so often to copy that science document (in .txt of course), or mkdir something -
explorer is ... dull. you have to actually press a lot of keys to resize the columns.
which, b the way, jaws says "blank", and that is a pain.
ms doesn't have any sort of api to explorer as far as i know, so we're stuck with truncated file names until we resize the columns.
and i hate multi-column lists, because you constantly gotta arrow around to get at 'm.
same with word - it lands you on the first file, skipping folders. that should be configurable, not a forced default.
or where i want to open my files, not in the ms office directory.

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1115 bytes --]

Actually, there is a way to force word to look in specified folders and
save there, but its rather complicated. You'll have to go into thr program
files folder, find the folder where your copy of office has been installed,
then search for winword.exe. Once found, hit your context ment key or
shift-f10 and choose send to and desktop create shortcut and enter on ok.
Then go to the desktop and find the shortcut you just made and bring up a
context menu for that and choose properties. You should be put
automatically in the shortcut tab, but if not, just get there. Tab to the
start in field and change it to whatever path you want word to
automatically show you when your saving or opening and just hit ok, and you
should be good to go. hth

Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Janina Sajka]

Jason Symes writes:
> 
> Actually, there is a way to force word to look in specified folders and
> save there, but its rather complicated.

This from the guy who says Windows is superior because it's so easy?

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 909 bytes --]

I corrected my error, I said it was because of social inertia. Its not a
crime to misspeak, and I've already corrected myself.
At 09:01 PM 9/14/02 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Jason Symes writes:
>> 
>> Actually, there is a way to force word to look in specified folders and
>> save there, but its rather complicated.
>
>This from the guy who says Windows is superior because it's so easy?
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[shaun_oliver]

*SNIP*
This from the guy who says Windows is superior because it's so easy?
yeah. that's it, you go girl!
easy my ass. If you're sighted just point and click. yeah right.
for us, press this plus that plus the other and play twister just to get
to a dialog and swear at it cause they moron that coded it used non
standard controls.
yeah. real easy.

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1441 bytes --]

I see someone else is taking issue with my corrected goof. Let me state
this again, at times windows is the most frustrating, difficult thing on
this planet, what I meant was its simple to sighted people because they
don't know any better. Its social inertia, they don't want to use something
new because they don't want to take the time to learn something new.
At 06:13 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
>
>*SNIP*
>This from the guy who says Windows is superior because it's so easy?
>yeah. that's it, you go girl!
>easy my ass. If you're sighted just point and click. yeah right.
>for us, press this plus that plus the other and play twister just to get
>to a dialog and swear at it cause they moron that coded it used non
>standard controls.
>yeah. real easy.
>
>-- 
>Shaun Oliver
>
>
>In a world without fences
>          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>
>EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
>ICQ: 76958435
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Aaron Howell]

Why not have the best of both worlds.
Visit http://www.lycoris.org (or for the bandwidthly impaired, http://www.lycoris.com and get a copy on cd).
You'll probably need sighted help to get it up and running, but once its up you can of course use it like any other linux distribution via speakup on the console.
The beauty of this one is for all intents and purposes your sighted folk will think its Windows XP.
The GUI is actually KDE 2.2.2 (3.0 in the next release i believe) but its been heavily customized to resemble XP in look and feel.
Coupled with a copy of Crossover office and MS Office 2k, I've almost convinced my Fiance that linux is the way to go.
(and she's about as diehard windows as they come).
(btw I have no affiliation with Lycoris at all, its just that someone demoed it to us at work and it really does look awesome).
Regards
Aaron
On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 03:48:37AM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
> I see someone else is taking issue with my corrected goof. Let me state
> this again, at times windows is the most frustrating, difficult thing on
> this planet, what I meant was its simple to sighted people because they
> don't know any better. Its social inertia, they don't want to use something
> new because they don't want to take the time to learn something new.
> At 06:13 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
> >
> >*SNIP*
> >This from the guy who says Windows is superior because it's so easy?
> >yeah. that's it, you go girl!
> >easy my ass. If you're sighted just point and click. yeah right.
> >for us, press this plus that plus the other and play twister just to get
> >to a dialog and swear at it cause they moron that coded it used non
> >standard controls.
> >yeah. real easy.
> >
> >-- 
> >Shaun Oliver
> >
> >
> >In a world without fences
> >          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
> >
> >EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> >ICQ: 76958435
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> Jason Symes
> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
> can cause kids
> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
> Just trying to plug away!


-- 
     +----------------------------------------------------------+
    /             |\      _,,,---,,_                           /|
   /              /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_                      / |
  /              |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'                    /  |
 /             '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)                         /   |
+----------------------------------------------------------+    |
| Aaron Howell                  Kitten Internet            |    |
| aaron@kitten.net.au           Internet consultancy,      |    |
| Phone: +61-417-625550         System administration,     |    |
| fax: +61-7-36010099           system design/integration. |    |
| icq: 6715521                  http://www.kitten.net.au   |    |
|                                                          |    |
|                                                          |    +
|                                                          |   /
|                                                          |  /
|                                                          | /
|                                                          |/
+----------------------------------------------------------+

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1615 bytes --]

Interesting. With all the vitrial I've seen from this list and other people
that use linux towards windows, I'm surprised a linux distro would be
designed to mimic the windows xp gui. That would be a good deal for those
sighties not comfortable to switching to something really unfamiliar to
them, yet still getting the stability of linux.
At 06:55 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
>
>Why not have the best of both worlds.
>Visit http://www.lycoris.org (or for the bandwidthly impaired,
http://www.lycoris.com and get a copy on cd).
>You'll probably need sighted help to get it up and running, but once its
up you can of course use it like any other linux distribution via speakup
on the console.
>The beauty of this one is for all intents and purposes your sighted folk
will think its Windows XP.
>The GUI is actually KDE 2.2.2 (3.0 in the next release i believe) but its
been heavily customized to resemble XP in look and feel.
>Coupled with a copy of Crossover office and MS Office 2k, I've almost
convinced my Fiance that linux is the way to go.
>(and she's about as diehard windows as they come).
>(btw I have no affiliation with Lycoris at all, its just that someone
demoed it to us at work and it really does look awesome).
>Regards
>Aaron

Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Aaron Howell]

Jason,
In the real world, both operating systems have their place.
Linux isn't quite yet at the stage where it can be readily accepted onto the desktop of the average Jo user
(though Lycoris brings it one step closer).
You still can't play all the very latest games under linux (though Wine is getting better),
and you can't run the latest office productivity suites either (Crossover Office still only supports Office 2000, and Openoffice/Staroffice, well, its written in Java, nuff said).
>From a server perspective Linux takes Win2k Server and flogs it around the block, and I wouldn't expect DOT NET server to improve that situation too much either (yeah thanks for the statistics Netcraft, most people in the know however know the truth of the matter).
However on the desktop side of things Windows is still in the lead, and will continue to be so for some time.
(Especially until we get a decent screen reader for X/gnome/kde/whatever).
At this stage, Its a case of use what works best for you in the given situation, I still use Windows XP on several of my machines.
Regards
Aaron
On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 04:05:35AM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
> Interesting. With all the vitrial I've seen from this list and other people
> that use linux towards windows, I'm surprised a linux distro would be
> designed to mimic the windows xp gui. That would be a good deal for those
> sighties not comfortable to switching to something really unfamiliar to
> them, yet still getting the stability of linux.
> At 06:55 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
> >
> >Why not have the best of both worlds.
> >Visit http://www.lycoris.org (or for the bandwidthly impaired,
> http://www.lycoris.com and get a copy on cd).
> >You'll probably need sighted help to get it up and running, but once its
> up you can of course use it like any other linux distribution via speakup
> on the console.
> >The beauty of this one is for all intents and purposes your sighted folk
> will think its Windows XP.
> >The GUI is actually KDE 2.2.2 (3.0 in the next release i believe) but its
> been heavily customized to resemble XP in look and feel.
> >Coupled with a copy of Crossover office and MS Office 2k, I've almost
> convinced my Fiance that linux is the way to go.
> >(and she's about as diehard windows as they come).
> >(btw I have no affiliation with Lycoris at all, its just that someone
> demoed it to us at work and it really does look awesome).
> >Regards
> >Aaron
> 
> Jason Symes
> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
> can cause kids
> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
> Just trying to plug away!


-- 
     +----------------------------------------------------------+
    /             |\      _,,,---,,_                           /|
   /              /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_                      / |
  /              |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'                    /  |
 /             '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)                         /   |
+----------------------------------------------------------+    |
| Aaron Howell                  Kitten Internet            |    |
| aaron@kitten.net.au           Internet consultancy,      |    |
| Phone: +61-417-625550         System administration,     |    |
| fax: +61-7-36010099           system design/integration. |    |
| icq: 6715521                  http://www.kitten.net.au   |    |
|                                                          |    |
|                                                          |    +
|                                                          |   /
|                                                          |  /
|                                                          | /
|                                                          |/
+----------------------------------------------------------+

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1148 bytes --]

Oh yes, I'm well aware of both os's place. Did I mention before I'm
studying to be a network administrator in college? This year we work win 2k
and some xp, next year we use redhat. This is part of the reason why I
joined this list and am downloading the redhat isos, I want to get some
experience before I'm thrust into using something I'm not used to. Besides,
when I heard about speakup from a person on a different list, it caught my
attention, since I'm always looking for a better, more stable computing
experience. I understand linux has a better tcp/ip stack than windows, is
that true? Who knows, maybe I'll get better performance out of my 56k modem
and won't need to upgrade to dsl after all. And I'd imagine my sound card
won't be as fisty in linux as in windows.

Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[shaun_oliver]

ok, as for linux having a better tcp/ip stack, I believe that to be
true. However, that won't enhance the performance of your 56k modem.
still go for dsl but make sure you can configure it with yer linux
utilities. unfortunately, alot of isps still want you to use windows and
internet exploder for the setting up and maintaining of yer dsl
connection.
and I'm glad you're doing a network administration course. I only wish
the college I attend over here would rather sell they're soul to
microsoft rather than teach us linux.
incidentally so would some of the teachers but that's another story.

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[shaun_oliver]

On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 07:37:21PM +1000, shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au wrote:
> ok, as for linux having a better tcp/ip stack, I believe that to be
> true. However, that won't enhance the performance of your 56k modem.
> still go for dsl but make sure you can configure it with yer linux
> utilities. unfortunately, alot of isps still want you to use windows and
> internet exploder for the setting up and maintaining of yer dsl
> connection.
> and I'm glad you're doing a network administration course. I only wish
> the college I attend over here would rather sell they're soul to
> microsoft rather than teach us linux.
> incidentally so would some of the teachers but that's another story.


woops, that didn't work now did it. 
I meant to say that the college I attend here should allow for some
linux stuff rather than sell they're soul to microsoft.
and on the idea of calling a truse, souhnds good to me. I see windows
and easy in the same message and I flip. however, linux ain't always
easy either.
if it was all easy, we'd all be experts at it.
> 
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> 
> 
> In a world without fences
>           and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
> 
> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> ICQ: 76958435
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1957 bytes --]

Shucks, well my dialup provider also has dsl service, and I know the dialup
service does allow linux, so I'd imagine linux would be supported for dsl too.
My college has a mixture of windows networking experts and linux experts,
in fact one of the netowrking professors is a linux junkie and has made
sure that its included in the entire course, which I think is absolutely
great since linux is more a standard on network servers than windows. Only
task for me to fit in with that class will be to convince them to install a
speakup enhanced distro of redhat on a computer for me instead of whatever
version of redhat they use.
At 07:37 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
>
>ok, as for linux having a better tcp/ip stack, I believe that to be
>true. However, that won't enhance the performance of your 56k modem.
>still go for dsl but make sure you can configure it with yer linux
>utilities. unfortunately, alot of isps still want you to use windows and
>internet exploder for the setting up and maintaining of yer dsl
>connection.
>and I'm glad you're doing a network administration course. I only wish
>the college I attend over here would rather sell they're soul to
>microsoft rather than teach us linux.
>incidentally so would some of the teachers but that's another story.
>
>-- 
>Shaun Oliver
>
>
>In a world without fences
>          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>
>EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
>ICQ: 76958435
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[shaun_oliver]

all they need to do is get the speakup modified iso images from
linux-speakup.org. they're no different to the standard distros apart
from speakup.

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1271 bytes --]

Actually, I guess they just added the linux component this year to my
networking classes, since they didn't offer any last year at all, and I was
quite surprised because they are a site for Microsoft certification testing.

Don't worry, I sometimes have the same reaction when windows is crapping
out on me. I've invested a few bucks in one of those foam hammer thingies
that you stick to your monitor, so that if you ever have the urge to do
some serious damage to the pc cause of a crash or something, you just grab
the little mallet and start beating away. Good thing is nothing damaged in
the end, and its sure helps bring the blood pressure back under control.
You might want to try finding one of those at staples, best buy, or circuit
city. In fact, I recommend that to everyone I know that have windows
problems, and it seems to make them more pleasant to be around after a few
days. Smile.

Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 797 bytes --]

Oh, I'm gonna try convincing them to do that, but my college has extremely
strict rules on what's installed on their lab computers. Far too many
students installing illegal, offensive, or non relavant garbage, and now
its like being in the military to get anything done. I won't mention how
hard it was to get a windows screen reader installed, and I wonder what
teeth I'll have to pull to get the modified redhat installed.

Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2146 bytes --]

Unfortunately, no and no. I gather we do some theoretical bookwork to
understand linux, then we students actually install linux on lab machines
with extreme supervision from the department head. Once installed, we're
guided through the basics, and I think we even do some server/client stuff
with it too.
At 05:18 AM 9/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>and maybe u wouldnt even have to do that.  Depending on if its on the main
>computer and u have to log in on a another computer using a terminal
>program, no convincing at all, or little to none anyway.  or, if its an
>arranged type class and u can do the work mostly on your own time, if you
>have linux on your computer already see if they'd let you do that.  I
>suggested that because the class i'm signed up for I found out its
>arrangeed, so I don't have to go there accept for if i need help
>don't know if your course is that way but, either of the above two worked
>for me.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
>To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 4:57 AM
>Subject: Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use
>
>
>> all they need to do is get the speakup modified iso images from
>> linux-speakup.org. they're no different to the standard distros apart
>> from speakup.
>>
>> --
>> Shaun Oliver
>>
>>
>> In a world without fences
>>           and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>>
>> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
>> ICQ: 76958435
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[MaTt]

and maybe u wouldnt even have to do that.  Depending on if its on the main
computer and u have to log in on a another computer using a terminal
program, no convincing at all, or little to none anyway.  or, if its an
arranged type class and u can do the work mostly on your own time, if you
have linux on your computer already see if they'd let you do that.  I
suggested that because the class i'm signed up for I found out its
arrangeed, so I don't have to go there accept for if i need help
don't know if your course is that way but, either of the above two worked
for me.

----- Original Message -----
From: <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use


> all they need to do is get the speakup modified iso images from
> linux-speakup.org. they're no different to the standard distros apart
> from speakup.
>
> --
> Shaun Oliver
>
>
> In a world without fences
>           and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>
> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> ICQ: 76958435
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[shaun_oliver]

hahahahahahahahahaha..
sounds like tafe over here. 
u gotta jump through this, fill out that, screw that one over there,
sign this, in triplicate no less, and state your case to at least 300
burocrats.
and then nothing still happens.

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[MaTt]

better than my idea and it'd be a lot cheaper too, (throwing the computer
out the window), of course i couldn't even run any system that way lol
only jokingly crossed my mind.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Symes" <jsymes@netins.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use


> Actually, I guess they just added the linux component this year to my
> networking classes, since they didn't offer any last year at all, and I
was
> quite surprised because they are a site for Microsoft certification
testing.
>
> Don't worry, I sometimes have the same reaction when windows is crapping
> out on me. I've invested a few bucks in one of those foam hammer thingies
> that you stick to your monitor, so that if you ever have the urge to do
> some serious damage to the pc cause of a crash or something, you just grab
> the little mallet and start beating away. Good thing is nothing damaged in
> the end, and its sure helps bring the blood pressure back under control.
> You might want to try finding one of those at staples, best buy, or
circuit
> city. In fact, I recommend that to everyone I know that have windows
> problems, and it seems to make them more pleasant to be around after a few
> days. Smile.
>
> Jason Symes
> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
> can cause kids
> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
> Just trying to plug away!
>

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[MaTt]

most of my stuff in college and all through school, i had that same bs and
when i finally got something, i.e, the screen reader for dos, one of the
idiot lab techs took it, manuals and all, and i never saw it again.  didn't
much care for him as a helper anyway but after that, ...well, thats a whole
other story that i won't even start ranting about..grin

----- Original Message -----
From: <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use


> hahahahahahahahahaha..
> sounds like tafe over here.
> u gotta jump through this, fill out that, screw that one over there,
> sign this, in triplicate no less, and state your case to at least 300
> burocrats.
> and then nothing still happens.
>
> --
> Shaun Oliver
>
>
> In a world without fences
>           and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>
> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> ICQ: 76958435
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Rich Caloggero]

will This run on old p166? We need to replace our ailing old win95 machines,
and if I could convince the folks at work to replace with linux, all the
better.

                    Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Howell" <aaron@kitten.net.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: 15 September, 2002 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use


Why not have the best of both worlds.
Visit http://www.lycoris.org (or for the bandwidthly impaired,
http://www.lycoris.com and get a copy on cd).
You'll probably need sighted help to get it up and running, but once its up
you can of course use it like any other linux distribution via speakup on
the console.
The beauty of this one is for all intents and purposes your sighted folk
will think its Windows XP.
The GUI is actually KDE 2.2.2 (3.0 in the next release i believe) but its
been heavily customized to resemble XP in look and feel.
Coupled with a copy of Crossover office and MS Office 2k, I've almost
convinced my Fiance that linux is the way to go.
(and she's about as diehard windows as they come).
(btw I have no affiliation with Lycoris at all, its just that someone demoed
it to us at work and it really does look awesome).
Regards
Aaron
On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 03:48:37AM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
> I see someone else is taking issue with my corrected goof. Let me state
> this again, at times windows is the most frustrating, difficult thing on
> this planet, what I meant was its simple to sighted people because they
> don't know any better. Its social inertia, they don't want to use
something
> new because they don't want to take the time to learn something new.
> At 06:13 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
> >
> >*SNIP*
> >This from the guy who says Windows is superior because it's so easy?
> >yeah. that's it, you go girl!
> >easy my ass. If you're sighted just point and click. yeah right.
> >for us, press this plus that plus the other and play twister just to get
> >to a dialog and swear at it cause they moron that coded it used non
> >standard controls.
> >yeah. real easy.
> >
> >--
> >Shaun Oliver
> >
> >
> >In a world without fences
> >          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
> >
> >EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> >ICQ: 76958435
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> Jason Symes
> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
> can cause kids
> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
> Just trying to plug away!


--
     +----------------------------------------------------------+
    /             |\      _,,,---,,_                           /|
   /              /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_                      / |
  /              |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'                    /  |
 /             '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)                         /   |
+----------------------------------------------------------+    |
| Aaron Howell                  Kitten Internet            |    |
| aaron@kitten.net.au           Internet consultancy,      |    |
| Phone: +61-417-625550         System administration,     |    |
| fax: +61-7-36010099           system design/integration. |    |
| icq: 6715521                  http://www.kitten.net.au   |    |
|                                                          |    |
|                                                          |    +
|                                                          |   /
|                                                          |  /
|                                                          | /
|                                                          |/
+----------------------------------------------------------+

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[MaTt]

hmm well, on my laptop it runs on a p133 with around 14mb of memory
so I wouldnt know, it probably would, depends on lots of things though.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Caloggero" <rjc@MIT.EDU>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use


> will This run on old p166? We need to replace our ailing old win95
machines,
> and if I could convince the folks at work to replace with linux, all the
> better.
>
>                     Rich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aaron Howell" <aaron@kitten.net.au>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: 15 September, 2002 4:55 AM
> Subject: Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use
>
>
> Why not have the best of both worlds.
> Visit http://www.lycoris.org (or for the bandwidthly impaired,
> http://www.lycoris.com and get a copy on cd).
> You'll probably need sighted help to get it up and running, but once its
up
> you can of course use it like any other linux distribution via speakup on
> the console.
> The beauty of this one is for all intents and purposes your sighted folk
> will think its Windows XP.
> The GUI is actually KDE 2.2.2 (3.0 in the next release i believe) but its
> been heavily customized to resemble XP in look and feel.
> Coupled with a copy of Crossover office and MS Office 2k, I've almost
> convinced my Fiance that linux is the way to go.
> (and she's about as diehard windows as they come).
> (btw I have no affiliation with Lycoris at all, its just that someone
demoed
> it to us at work and it really does look awesome).
> Regards
> Aaron
> On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 03:48:37AM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
> > I see someone else is taking issue with my corrected goof. Let me state
> > this again, at times windows is the most frustrating, difficult thing on
> > this planet, what I meant was its simple to sighted people because they
> > don't know any better. Its social inertia, they don't want to use
> something
> > new because they don't want to take the time to learn something new.
> > At 06:13 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
> > >
> > >*SNIP*
> > >This from the guy who says Windows is superior because it's so easy?
> > >yeah. that's it, you go girl!
> > >easy my ass. If you're sighted just point and click. yeah right.
> > >for us, press this plus that plus the other and play twister just to
get
> > >to a dialog and swear at it cause they moron that coded it used non
> > >standard controls.
> > >yeah. real easy.
> > >
> > >--
> > >Shaun Oliver
> > >
> > >
> > >In a world without fences
> > >          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
> > >
> > >EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > >ICQ: 76958435
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Speakup mailing list
> > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > Jason Symes
> > kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
> > can cause kids
> > The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's
the
> > zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
> > if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
> > If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
> > Just trying to plug away!
>
>
> --
>      +----------------------------------------------------------+
>     /             |\      _,,,---,,_                           /|
>    /              /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_                      / |
>   /              |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'                    /  |
>  /             '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)                         /   |
> +----------------------------------------------------------+    |
> | Aaron Howell                  Kitten Internet            |    |
> | aaron@kitten.net.au           Internet consultancy,      |    |
> | Phone: +61-417-625550         System administration,     |    |
> | fax: +61-7-36010099           system design/integration. |    |
> | icq: 6715521                  http://www.kitten.net.au   |    |
> |                                                          |    |
> |                                                          |    +
> |                                                          |   /
> |                                                          |  /
> |                                                          | /
> |                                                          |/
> +----------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[ccrawford]

	So where is the college over here?


On Sun, 15 Sep 2002 shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au wrote:

> ok, as for linux having a better tcp/ip stack, I believe that to be
> true. However, that won't enhance the performance of your 56k modem.
> still go for dsl but make sure you can configure it with yer linux
> utilities. unfortunately, alot of isps still want you to use windows and
> internet exploder for the setting up and maintaining of yer dsl
> connection.
> and I'm glad you're doing a network administration course. I only wish
> the college I attend over here would rather sell they're soul to
> microsoft rather than teach us linux.
> incidentally so would some of the teachers but that's another story.
> 
> 

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Janina Sajka]

Jason Symes writes:
> 
> Did I mention before I'm
> studying to be a network administrator in college? This year we work win 2k
> and some xp, next year we use redhat.
Hmmm. Looks like you're going to be making yet another correction. Network admin tasks in Linux are not generally
accomplished with check boxes and drop down lists.

Time to learn the CLI, my friend.

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[shaun_oliver]

ok, australia is where I am if some of you don't already know by now..
and yes I'm attending college or rather tafe. technical and further
education.
I'm doing certificate 4 network management.
which is a vtab or nationally acredited course over here. accredited
even.
damned spelling.

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Janina Sajka]

Jason Symes writes: > > ... my college has extremely > strict rules on what's installed on their lab computers. I won't
mention how > hard it was to get a windows screen reader installed, and I wonder what > teeth I'll have to pull to get
the modified redhat installed. > Are you in the U.S.? Then you have a legal right to such accomodations as are required
for your education. My advice is that you shouldn't waste time advocating this for yourself all over again. Just get a 
good lawyer to send a letter on letterhead to the college president, academic dean, disabled students office, and
department chair.  that will get you quicker action and you'll have more time for learning.

Second point. Cross you fingers. If things stay on track, the next release of stock Red Hat will come with Speakup, so
you'll only have to connect a synthesizer to a serial port and reboot.

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Janina Sajka]

Jason Symes writes:
> 
> ... then we students actually install linux on lab machines
> with extreme supervision from the department head. Once installed, we're
> guided through the basics, and I think we even do some server/client stuff
> with it too.

No problem at all. You can install over the serial port with a null modem cable, if need be. That's how the one person
who has achieved Red Hat Certification (RCE) did it.

And, once installed, you can do absolutely everything over an ssh connection. 

As I write this message, for example, I am using a computer that doesn't have speech or a speech synthesizer connected
to it.

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[shaun_oliver]

now, all we got to do is get speakup into debian and a few others and
we pretty much got it covered.
On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 11:11:41AM -0400,
Janina Sajka wrote:
> Jason Symes writes: > > ... my college has extremely > strict rules on what's installed on their lab computers. I won't
> mention how > hard it was to get a windows screen reader installed, and I wonder what > teeth I'll have to pull to get
> the modified redhat installed. > Are you in the U.S.? Then you have a legal right to such accomodations as are required
> for your education. My advice is that you shouldn't waste time advocating this for yourself all over again. Just get a 
> good lawyer to send a letter on letterhead to the college president, academic dean, disabled students office, and
> department chair.  that will get you quicker action and you'll have more time for learning.
> 
> Second point. Cross you fingers. If things stay on track, the next release of stock Red Hat will come with Speakup, so
> you'll only have to connect a synthesizer to a serial port and reboot.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2105 bytes --]

Yeah, that what my operating systems prof did with jaws, but he has no
choice to give it back since I own it. He may have to buy me new
authorization keys too, I think he blew 3 against my warnings. I was glad
my networking professor handled my window eyes install, otherwise I
would've had to fight to get that back too. I'll probably get my networking
teacher to install redhat, if he can.
At 05:43 AM 9/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>most of my stuff in college and all through school, i had that same bs and
>when i finally got something, i.e, the screen reader for dos, one of the
>idiot lab techs took it, manuals and all, and i never saw it again.  didn't
>much care for him as a helper anyway but after that, ...well, thats a whole
>other story that i won't even start ranting about..grin
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
>To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:19 AM
>Subject: Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use
>
>
>> hahahahahahahahahaha..
>> sounds like tafe over here.
>> u gotta jump through this, fill out that, screw that one over there,
>> sign this, in triplicate no less, and state your case to at least 300
>> burocrats.
>> and then nothing still happens.
>>
>> --
>> Shaun Oliver
>>
>>
>> In a world without fences
>>           and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>>
>> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
>> ICQ: 76958435
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 551 bytes --]

That's fine, that's why I want to get used to redhat's look and feel before
I actually use it next year, so I'm used to those non-checkbox things that
network admins do in linux.

Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2007 bytes --]

Well, fortunately I have some people in the student services department
that'll put some wait on the business department to force them to do it
reluctantly. Yeah, I'm in the U.s>, and I've already had to do what you
describe with lawyers for my high school so if the college gives me much
more grief, I'll do it to them too.
Wow! Do you know when that's gonna be released? Until I get dsl, I'm
crawling along on dialup, and the 3 required isos are taking soooooo long
I'll be old and gray by the time they're done downloading and I can get
them burned.
At 11:11 AM 9/15/02 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Jason Symes writes: > > ... my college has extremely > strict rules on
what's installed on their lab computers. I won't
>mention how > hard it was to get a windows screen reader installed, and I
wonder what > teeth I'll have to pull to get
>the modified redhat installed. > Are you in the U.S.? Then you have a
legal right to such accomodations as are required
>for your education. My advice is that you shouldn't waste time advocating
this for yourself all over again. Just get a 
>good lawyer to send a letter on letterhead to the college president,
academic dean, disabled students office, and
>department chair.  that will get you quicker action and you'll have more
time for learning.
>
>Second point. Cross you fingers. If things stay on track, the next release
of stock Red Hat will come with Speakup, so
>you'll only have to connect a synthesizer to a serial port and reboot.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 431 bytes --]

Ok, thanks. I'll keep that in mind when I take that class.

Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Edward L. Barnes]

Hi there buddy, if at all possible, do it yourself, you'll find that you 
will most definitely learn from developping a familiarity with the 
installations, and this is said by a relative newbie who's done the 
install several times. Ed
On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Jason Symes wrote:

> Yeah, that what my operating systems prof did with jaws, but he has no
> choice to give it back since I own it. He may have to buy me new
> authorization keys too, I think he blew 3 against my warnings. I was glad
> my networking professor handled my window eyes install, otherwise I
> would've had to fight to get that back too. I'll probably get my networking
> teacher to install redhat, if he can.
> At 05:43 AM 9/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >most of my stuff in college and all through school, i had that same bs and
> >when i finally got something, i.e, the screen reader for dos, one of the
> >idiot lab techs took it, manuals and all, and i never saw it again.  didn't
> >much care for him as a helper anyway but after that, ...well, thats a whole
> >other story that i won't even start ranting about..grin
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> >To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:19 AM
> >Subject: Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use
> >
> >
> >> hahahahahahahahahaha..
> >> sounds like tafe over here.
> >> u gotta jump through this, fill out that, screw that one over there,
> >> sign this, in triplicate no less, and state your case to at least 300
> >> burocrats.
> >> and then nothing still happens.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Shaun Oliver
> >>
> >>
> >> In a world without fences
> >>           and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
> >>
> >> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> >> ICQ: 76958435
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> Jason Symes
> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
> can cause kids
> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
> Just trying to plug away!
> 

Re: (rant) why microsoft is not easy to use

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 988 bytes --]

Well, until we students are actually allowed to do it in class and with
extreme supervision, its the professors that have to do that stuff, thanks
to those students that did inappropriate stuff on campus computers. I
suppose if I brow beat them into letting me, then I could do it, but I
highly doubt they'll let me do it until class.
At 07:28 PM 9/15/02 -0230, you wrote:
>
>Hi there buddy, if at all possible, do it yourself, you'll find that you 
>will most definitely learn from developping a familiarity with the 
>installations, and this is said by a relative newbie who's done the 
>install several times. Ed

Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!